England lifts COVID restrictions as scientists warn of surge in cases

The drama goes on. Yes vaccination reduces risk but doesnt eliminate it. So until we dial back the fear factor we will likely continue to see restrictions on all sorts of areas of life.

The British government is admitting that a fully vaccinated person is still capable of contracting Covid and spreading it.

Thus fully vaccinated people are still a threat to those around them.

Well that is known already, are they going to "admit" people may die from bacterial infections even using antibiotics as well? Vaccines very importantly reduce both things, which is very important at the population level, and also prevent complications and death. Their role is to make the virus less dangerous and much more difficult to spread, and this is achieved very nicely. Things can be hugely useful even if not 100% effective.

Next up, the government will be forced to “admit” that the sky is blue, the Earth is round, and that water is wet.

The patriotic thing for Johnson to do would be to self-isolate permanently. He's done enough (irreversible?) damage to the UK's body politic with his viral clowning and disastrous policies.

Maybe he can use the extra time off to learn how to brush his hair....

Thus fully vaccinated people are still a threat to those around them.

And that's exactly why everybody must get vaccinated! Good point, burning bush.

Don't let the lack of absolute perfect become an excuse to do nothing. Sometimes good enough is just that. A vaccine that is 80-90% effective if taken universally or nearly turns a pandemic into a manageable occasional infection.

Next up, the government will be forced to “admit” that the sky is blue, the Earth is round, and that water is wet.

Which Burning Bush will claim is a conspiracy and that the earth is in fact flat.

The British government is admitting that a fully vaccinated person is still capable of contracting Covid and spreading it.

Thus fully vaccinated people are still a threat to those around them.

Washing your hands does not kill all germs nor remove all dirt.

What’s your view on washing your hands?

Nero and Rome

Johnson and the UK,

It obvious that the west has lost control and has no idea what it is doing. It is utterly incompetent.

Nero and Rome

Johnson and the UK...

Unlike the Latin-spouting poseur ignoramus, Johnson, the cultured Nero was the real deal: his Latin was incomparably better as were his superior "fiddling" and literary pretensions. As England "burns" and "brexits", the country should be so lucky to have such a competent leader at the helm.

At least the UK and Johnson are honest about the realities that faces the world; covid is here to stay, all of us will come in contact with it at some point, for most of those who are vaccinated it will likely be like a common cold at most, while for those who are not vaccinated it will be like a common cold or worse, and government intervention is only meaningful if it looks like health care systems might collapse or you have to suppress numbers when hosting the Olympics.

That said, if ICU rates and deaths start rising big time in the UK, that would be very bad news for the rest of us. Interesting situation to keep an eye on!

What people are forgetting is that fully masked yet unvaccinated people are ALSO a threat to those around them. A lesser threat than unmasked to be sure, yet a threat nonetheless.

So what is the public health difference between masked and vaccinated?

But @Burning Bush- You don't support Lockdows, Vaccinations or mask wearing. So - This is your final ditch effort is scaremongering? What is your answer?

Do you walk into a battlefield naked? If you believe that the Lord is with you, and that your soul can never die, then perhaps.

If someone hands you a set of body armor, will you give thanks and put it on? Will it protect you 100%? No, but you'll appreciate having it. Would you like a gun? Yes please. Will it stop you being killed, no, but it might help.

It's all about reducing the danger, reducing the odds. This is what physical spacing, masks (doubled are better), hand-washing and vaccinations do. They help protect you and others.

In the UK, peer pressure and the howls of the crowd, like at the colosseum in ancient Rome, will dictate what most people do, overcoming individual common sense. Some kind of democracy, "On your heads be it."

Spot on @nandakandamanda. No need for extremes. I don't want lock myself away - But I don't want to put myself in harms way either. I'll keep my mask on, keep my hands clean and I'm looking forward to my second jab. I want things to get back to normal. Some - it would appear don't or wish to delay it through their own selfishness.

The government's stated approach of lifting controls now before any winter surge of respiratory disease is marked by "moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity", said University of Bristol public health expert Gabriel Scally.

Expert in what? conflict of interest? No comment!

https://thefatemperor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/ISAG-Thread-Conflicts-of-Interest.pdf

“Not understanding this after a year and half of pandemic is…concerning”

Still believing everything the media says after a year and a half of hysteria is…concerning.

GdTokyoToday  07:38 am JST

Next up, the government will be forced to “admit” that the sky is blue, the Earth is round, and that water is wet.

The sea is green and my submarine is yellow too.

u_s__reamerToday  07:46 am JST

The patriotic thing for Johnson to do would be to self-isolate permanently. He's done enough (irreversible?) damage to the UK's body politic with his viral clowning and disastrous policies.

Boris didn't get the nickname 'Bozo' for nothing. You might think he'd learn after contracting it himself last year.

One is perplexed as to what extent UK leaders have really realized the gravity of virus situation.

They are on hot seats, messing up decision after decision..

There’s nothing special with it. What here is the Olympics as beacon of hope, is in the UK translation a complete opening but cautiously. That’s just only for the business sentiment and motivation of the people etc. A steady propaganda attempt. They know of course, that they have lost with their stupid strategies if they ever had one, and that they should everything close instead. But who likes or can afford losing face? They for sure not.

So can a vaccinated person still contract and spread the virus, albeit to a lesser extent? Then is a vaccinated person with covid more of a threat to an unvaccinated person without it than the unvaccinated is to the vaccinated? Or no? If so, then this idea that unvaccinated people are the problem must actually be a way to dismiss the reality that vaccine enthusiasm is more self-serving than anything else. Maybe I'm just confused. It would seem that those who want/need it can get it in most places and those who don't want/need it don't. For some reason the hatred seems really one-sided. And it's from the side claiming to fight for the "greater good".

Vaccinated people - Yes can still contract the Virus, but very unlikely to become seriously ill and place strain on a countries health system. Vaccinated people - Reduced Transmission, 50-60% and THAT is they key to our way out.

Unvaccinated People - None of the above.

I would say that those who choose to get vaccinated are indeed doing it for the 'greater good'.

Madness.

So can a vaccinated person still contract and spread the virus, albeit to a lesser extent? Then is a vaccinated person with covid more of a threat to an unvaccinated person without it than the unvaccinated is to the vaccinated? 

Are you really worried about the threat to an unvaccinated person from a vaccinated person? 1: Who is a bigger threat to unvaccinated people, vaccinated or other unvaccinated? 2: Who is a bigger threat to vaccinated people, unvaccinated or other vaccinated. The answer to both questions is the same.

@Haaa Nemui: Wouldn't bother questioning his/her logic. Another anti-vaxxer looking for another excuse.

Well over 50% of the UK have had a set of two injections and are thus fully vaccinated-weather is sunny and warm-windows are open and residences ventilated.

It’s not going to be the doom and gloom that is being predicted.

My point is that being vaccinated actually seems to be a step up in safety from merely wearing a mask. So why is it necessary to do both? Why punish the vaccinated for doing the right thing? If anything, being allowed to go maskless may just incentivize some vaccine hesitant people.

Not an anti vaxxer. I will happily get the shot when my number comes from the city. But masking up after vaccination seems like wearing a condom on top of a condom. Not reallly necessary.

My point is that being vaccinated actually seems to be a step up in safety from merely wearing a mask. So why is it necessary to do both?

You get a vaccine to protect yourself, you wear a mask to protect those around you.

Why punish the vaccinated for doing the right thing?

Such an American binary zero-sum viewpoint; "Punish."

There is more than a whiff of all or nothing, with Johnsons pandemic decision make process.

I believe this Government has run out of options, the economy is close to collapse, debt at post war record levels. The furlough scheme to be phased out entirely September.

Boris Johnson has rolled the dice, a gamble that, with most if not all restriction dropped the economy will pick up enough to numb the inevitable pain and hardship that's soon to follow.

The Labour opposition have offered no real feasible alternatives.

Do you walk into a battlefield naked? If you believe that the Lord is with you, and that your soul can never die, then perhaps.

If someone hands you a set of body armor, will you give thanks and put it on? Will it protect you 100%? No, but you'll appreciate having it. Would you like a gun? Yes please. Will it stop you being killed, no, but it might help.

These analogies are funny.

Here’s a wrinkle, what if the body armor was made out depleted uranium? It will surly protect you but it also might kill you in the long run because no one knows the long term effects of wearing depleted uranium body armor, since it’s never been done before.

@theResident - yeah, I get that. It’s just frustrating watching people desperately trying to convince themselves and others that vaccines and vaccinated people are the problem.

@Attila - I hate masks, hate them with a passion, but knowing that even after being vaccinated I still have a slight chance of spreading the virus, I will wear one when I’m out and about until the majority of people around me are also at a reduced risk of contracting the virus too. It’s a small inconvenience to take for the safety of the people I care about. But I understand your point.

@kurisupisu - Totally agree. Cases will continue to grow for a while, but at some point, especially if they make the final push to get waverers vaccinated, with the amount of people who are carrying natural antibodies now, the UK will soon approach herd immunity.

There will be a few 'squeaky bum' moments - but if deaths remain very low then its really time to push on.

Some people are incurable. Just in it for the lolz. Ignore them.

Vaccinated people - Reduced Transmission, 50-60% and THAT is they key to our way out.

How is this data known? I've read 25% less likely. That's a pretty big difference. What's the rate of transmission from unvaccinated asymptomatic carriers? That's the main justification for the lockdowns around the world, isn't it? Or perhaps another "way out" is to accept that people are going to eventually have to go back to living their lives regardless of some ever moving goal post and curve flattening flailing by authorities.

@theResident, thanks for assuming my stance on vaccines. You'd like it if I were some sort of conspiracy nut who thought vaccines cause autism or some nonsense. Sorry the world isn't so black and white. Stay safe out there.

Don't let the lack of absolute perfect become an excuse to do nothing. Sometimes good enough is just that. A vaccine that is 80-90% effective if taken universally or nearly turns a pandemic into a manageable occasional infection.

Yes, but we can achieve the same result with ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, without the risk of dying or becoming permanently disabled...

People should be given a choice.

@virusrex,

As our resident expert, can you please educate us, the ignorant masses, as to your research on covid-19 treatments? Antimalarial drugs have shown efficacy in treating covid under certain circumstances, have they not?

 I'm simply against the totalitarian push to enforce medical behavior.

The problem is when you rely on false or incorrect information to convince others from your views, that is completely invalid and undermines what you say is your purpose.

Children are vaccinated against influenza routinely, and those are yearly new versions of a vaccine, developed and tested even less completely than the COVID vaccines, but you don't say anything against them? why is that, COVID is even more dangerous for children than influenza.

The problem is people having double standards that are by definition invalid and irrational, a lot of times this comes from simple ignorance (for example thinking that Polio was much more lethal than COVID) but sometimes it comes from a willing effort to persist in a mistake just because the person can't accept being mistaken.

Prove the science is wrong, with scientific data and a well constructed, valid process, else you have to accept the scientific consensus is valid, COVID is dangerous, vaccines and non-pharmacological measures do help a lot to control it and exposing others to risk because of mistaken ideas is not justified.

Strangerland, I'm not American, sorry to disappoint you. I do enjoy how you throw "American" around as a perjorative though.

Vaccines are also a social good. They also protect those around you, even better than masks. I think people SHOULD get them. But there comes a point when the paranoia has to stop. Mask PLUS vaccine? Sorry, a bit too controlling. You do it if you want, but don't force others to do so.

There comes a point when safe is safe enough.

Get a vaccine, then relax. You won't die of covid. You probably wont even get sick even if you are surrounded by unvaccinated folks. and IF you get sick, it will be a mild case. Good enough. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Yes, but we can achieve the same result with ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine, without the risk of dying or becoming permanently disabled...

How are you still here spouting this rubbish? Your hero Didier Raoult already gave his support for the vaccines.

Still waiting on the Indonesia Ivermectin data?

Yeah thats what people tell me now, that if you are vaccinated and get COVID anyway, it wont cause you to be hospitalized or be really sick.

Of course this doesnt match the initial narrative which was get the vaccine so you wont get COVID at all, and can stop wearing masks.

So get your vaccine and you will be fine, no matter what others do.

The problem is when you rely on false or incorrect information to convince others from your views

Yeah, back at ya. Point is, I don't have to prove anything. Governments like the UK are meant to be democratic. Halting the due process of democracy for a disease of any risk is a very dangerous thing to do. It warrants a lot of control that would otherwise be deemed overstepping or even illegal. But some people are willing to risk it since they believe the fear mongering and questionable estimates of those poised to gain the most from the suspension of democratic due process.

So get your vaccine and you will be fine, no matter what others do.

Americans can be so selfish. If it doesn't affect you, then who cares, right?

As our resident expert, can you please educate us, the ignorant masses, as to your research on covid-19 treatments? Antimalarial drugs have shown efficacy in treating covid under certain circumstances, have they not?

Why should I do that when the world experts have much more published data, better explained and easily available for anybody with interest in the topic? that is more than enough and that is why I make a point to refer to them and never on myself.

Everything can show efficacy agaisnt COVID under "certain circumstances", on cells, on one specific animal model, under non-physiological concentrations, etc. That is the very first step when checking if a drug is or not an option. What is necessary after that is to prove that properly randomized, powered studies still indicate the drug have value. And that point is where antimalarial drugs keep failing to reach. HCQ for example has shown to work but only on badly designed studies (which indicate background noise, half of those studies will show a positive effect, half a negative one, if people only publish the "good" half you get a false impression because of publication bias), it also appeared to work in unethically manipulated studies by researchers that have proved to lie to profit personally from this false success. Reasons as these two are plenty, and the work of scientists is precisely to identify these false results and eliminate them from the scientific literature.

Yeah, back at ya. Point is, I don't have to prove anything. 

If you accept your position is invalid, irrational and bring no benefit by being accepted by others, yes you don't have to prove anything. But if you want to say it has any value, specially against the opinion of scientists that contradict you completely then yes, you have to. Democracy do not mean you get to infringe on the rights of others just because you believe you know more than the scientific community, in the same way "fear mongering" do not apply to things proved with clear, solid evidence just because you don't want to believe it. For both things you need more and better evidence to prove the opponents wrong. There is no suspension of democratic processes, it simply means other people can be much more rational than you, and you don't like it.

Yeah thats what people tell me now, that if you are vaccinated and get COVID anyway, it wont cause you to be hospitalized or be really sick. 

Of course this doesnt match the initial narrative which was get the vaccine so you wont get COVID at all, and can stop wearing masks. 

So get your vaccine and you will be fine, no matter what others do.

Incurable.

Why wouldnt you care about me that I dont want to subject myself to an unapproved virus with unknown side effects? as the vaccine is still part of a "study" that doesnt end until Oct 2022.

You know who they are studying? YOU, to see what happens to you after you got vaccinated.

Americans can be so selfish. If it doesn't affect you, then who cares, right?

....unapproved vaccine....

scientists warn of surge in cases

This is what virus pandemics do, especially those caused by rapidly mutating RNA virus such as corona a nd influenza. There is no value to a virus’s survival if it kllls its host. So, a favourable mutation (to the virus) is one that increases infectivity whilst lowering pathogenicity in the host organism. This what the delta variant is doing . This, along with a rapidly developing immune status of the population, is how pandemics come to an end.

All pandemics this and last century ended within 18 months. Covid is doing the same. That is why testing is a waste of time (and money). The only end point which is worth measuring is that of death; and from covid-19 itself, not a coincidental comorbidity or being hit by a bus.