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UK terror prevention program questioned after lawmaker slain

32 Comments
By DANICA KIRKA

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32 Comments

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While referrals to from the far right and potential jihadis are both problematic, it is clear that potential jihadis make up a disproportionate number given that Muslims make up a small percentage of the UK population. There is clearly a particular problem here, and the vast majority of terrorist attacks in the UK have come from jihadis. Saying this isn’t apologising for the trash far-right.

I remember Quilliam, an organisation which attempted to deal with the problem of jihadis, was attacked from many for being ‘Islamophobic’ despite being largely made up of reformist Muslims. I remember the expressions ‘government stooges’ and ‘sell-outs’ were among the expressions used to deride it. There were some celebrations when it folded.

Prevent may have its flaws, but the fact that the Muslim community is producing a disproportionate number of potential jihadis and those who carry it out can’t be ignored. What to do about this is very difficult, but you need to start with honesty.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Stopping the bombing, killing, maiming and starving and the immoral propping up of despotic regimes for profit as a pillar of UK government foreign policy and instead doing more to create opportunities for gainful employment to muslim ethnic minorities would be far more effective in preventing radicalization than the Mickey Mouse Prevent program. But all this is, admittedly, unrealistic as it would require a top-to-bottom reboot of the rotten class system which has stymied the revitalization of UK society, a prospect as distant as ever now that they have "taken back control".

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

UK terror prevention program…

That must be a very bad joke. The whole continent drives a massive terror influx and promotion program, from UK in North, Spain in West, Greece and Italy in South, to even Belarus in East (in that case to counter the Western European countries but with the same result) and the rest in center like France or Germany acts even more crazy and schizophrenic, desperately searching for all chances to increase of potential terrorists, and that isn’t a current or new development, but runs accelerated for already many years.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

When NATO wipes out an entire village killing men women and children the media calls is Collateral Damage, and when a Muslim man kills another the media calls him an "Islamist extremist.”

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

Smh. Ask London's mayor for his opinion, and he'd probably once again shrug it off, exclaiming that terrorism is "just part and parcel of living in a big city." "'It is a reality I'm afraid that London, New York, other major cities around the world have got to be prepared for these sorts of things."

Like rain from the sky...just accept terror in your lives! Great advice! You know...it's not as if the vast, vast majority of terror attacks in the past 20 years aren't emanating from one particular group in our society.

(Not that Khan has any bias one way or the other in the matter, though. Of course not! That would be a ridiculous assertion!)

2 ( +9 / -7 )

UK Terror Prevention program - the joke s on the public.

I’ll sum it up in a nutshell: “Enrichment”, “the vast majority of muslims etc etc”,

singing Don’t look back in anger, making heart signs with our hands.

Until the next time.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

Helps if you stop importing people from terror hotspots.

Europe is far, FAR too open to people who dont share European values or culture and require a great deal of work to fit in. How hard is it to understand?

Did they say this indiividual came from "Asia" as is the usual nonsensical practice in the U.K.

Asia ends at Myanmar and Nepal. It does not include and has never included Pakistan, India or Bangladesh.

Muslims make up a small percentage of the UK population

How small? I read in France its close to 20% and France is even worse than the U.K for this sort of incident.

Do you think its a suprise that Australia, which has a muslim population of less than 3% rarely encounters a problem and yet France with 20%, has a lot of issues. Coincidence?

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Why use the word, Islamist? The guy is bad, evil, heinous, mad even, why blame a whole religion and belief for the crime of an evil man? It's this kind of reporting and language that create hate.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

UK Terror Prevention program - the joke s on the public.

So what do you think should be done?

Any constructive ideas?

Smh. Ask London's mayor for his opinion, and he'd probably once again shrug it off, exclaiming that terrorism is "just part and parcel of living in a big city."

That would be a strange thing to say bearing in mind that this latest murder didn’t happen in a big city. Khan has his faults, but I think he has a basic grasp of the UK map which is useful when commenting on threads like this.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Why use the word, Islamist? The guy is bad, evil, heinous, mad even, why blame a whole religion and belief for the crime of an evil man?

The word ‘Islamist’ is generally used for those who want to impose Islam on others. This is not a good thing. Decent Muslims are not Islamists.

Islamism is a terrible idea which needs to be opposed by everyone including Muslims.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Muslims make up a small percentage of the UK population

How small? 

The stats I’ve seen estimate it at around 6%.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

UK Muslim population, with 4.8% of the population (2.7 million people). (2020).

https://eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-policies/eurydice/content/population-demographic-situation-languages-and-religions-93_en

The security forces have a list of about 25,000 people who might be radical Islamists. But only 3,000 are watched 24/7.

Many are born in Britain.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

The stats I’ve seen estimate it at around 6%.

Before long it will be 10% through natural growth.

Isnt there a plan to use Ascension Island to process people? They need to get that scheme up and running as soon as possible. Everyone coming via the English Channel will have to go there.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

47.2% of Muslims are born in the country and can not be spent anywhere. 73% only have British nationality.

https://mcb.org.uk/report/british-muslims-in-numbers/

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

47.2% of Muslims are born in the country and can not be spent anywhere. 73% only have British nationality.

So there is an integration problem and radicalisation within the country itself.

Clearly much more needs to be done.

The security forces have a list of about 25,000 people who might be radical Islamists. But only 3,000 are watched 24/7.

How much do you think it costs to watch people 24/7? A vast sum im sure.

Far better to not have the problem in the first place, but since you do, its time to bring the hammer down on importing more of it.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Far better to not have the problem in the first place, but since you do, its time to bring the hammer down on importing more of it.

Bring the hammer down? Sounds dramatic.

What would you recommend here? A ban on Muslims immigrating to the UK? Stricter vetting?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Far better to not have the problem in the first place, but since you do, its time to bring the hammer down on importing more of it.

People are not "imported" they are not products or animals.

"How many refugees are there in the UK? According to UNHCR statistics, at the end of 2020 there were 132,349 refugees, 77,245 pending asylum cases and 4662 stateless persons in the UK. The vast majority of refugees – 4 out of 5 – stay in their region of displacement, and consequently are hosted by developing countries."

https://www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

(Not that Khan has any bias one way or the other in the matter, though. Of course not! That would be a ridiculous assertion!)

You’re implying Khan has a pro-terrorism bias?

I’d say “ridiculous assertion” is far too polite to describe such a suggestion.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Prevention beats cure.

Wahhabism and state terrorism must be tackled at source.

Blair/Bush's criminal enterprise must never be repeated.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

When muslim terrorists strike in China, it's bad bad China. The hypocrisy stinks. Do any of you know why they have strict security measures at train stations and even subways in China? Sorry, but terrorism will continue in the UK. It used to be the IRA. How times have changed.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

The vast majority of Asians and Asian Muslims arrive in the country because of the Commonwealth. They do not need asylum.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Coincidently @zichi 10:13am I had just accessed that same source for my @9:58am post concerning Japan’s incoming Afghan refugees. These same humanitarian issues will have to be confronted by Japan’s government, whether some like it or not.

*- @zichi 10:13am: [Far better to not have the problem in the first place, but since you do, its time to bring the hammer down on importing more of it.] “People are not "imported" they are not products or animals.”*

*"How many refugees are there in the UK? According to UNHCR statistics, at the end of 2020 there were 132,349 refugees, 77,245 pending asylum cases and 4662 stateless persons in the UK. The vast majority of refugees – 4 out of 5 – stay in their region of displacement, and consequently are hosted by developing countries."*

https://www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Only 2,1% of the EU 445 million population is Muslims. Less than one million people. The first Muslims arrived in the year 711.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Years ago, when he was working in SA, my father asked one of his Saudi colleagues what the national flag symbolised. The Saudi colleague replied that the trees represent date palms which were the original source of the contry's wealth, and the swords represent Islam, which will conquer the world by the sword if necessary.

And it's not just the Saudis. Erdogan himelf remarked, rather pithily, that "Democracy is like a train: when you reach your destination, you get off."

That is the way the wind is blowing; if you cannot see it is because you choose not to.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

Only 2,1% of the EU 445 million population is Muslims. Less than one million people. The first Muslims arrived in the year 711.

Absolute nonsense.

Just in France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_France#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20latest%20Special,000%20million.

According to Jean-Paul Gourévitch [fr], there were 8.5 million of Muslim origin (about 1/8 of the population), in metropolitan France in 2017.[101][102][103]

In 2017, François Héran, former Head of the Population Surveys Branch at INSEE and Director of INED (French National Institute for Demographic Research) between 1999 and 2009, stated that about one eighth of the French population was of Muslim origin in 2017 (8.4 million).[104]

.According to the latest Special Eurobarometer 493(2019) the Muslim population in France is estimated to be 5% or 3.350.000 million.[2]

Pew Research Center predicts the Muslim population would rise to 8.6 million or 12.7 percent of the country in 2050.[105]

Whichever way you slice it, there are more than 1 million muslims in France alone. In Europe, it would be well into double figures of millions.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Only 2,1% of the EU 445 million population is Muslims. Less than one million people. 

Yes I was incorrect.

There are 28 million Muslims living in the EU. That total includes people born there and other people who have converted. Out of a population of 445 million.

6.2% of the EU population are Muslims.

The figure is very low.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Fair point. I’m more interested in what can be done.

You mentioned bringing the hammer down but didn’t explain what you meant.

Did you mean you want a complete ban on Muslims wanting to live in the UK? More extreme vetting? Something else?

What’s your practical solution here?

A suspension of all muslim immigration to the U.K for at least 5 years while a thorough review is taken into programs to combat radicalisation. At the very least, a suspension of muslim immigration from countries known to have been the fountain of many incidents in Europe - Pakistan, Tunisia, Somalia etc.

The creation of the Ascension Island strategy to deter migrants coming into the country illegally via the English Channel. International law clearly states, migrants in fear of persecution should be dealt with in the first safe country. There are lot of safe havens between the U.K and North Africa for example.....or the U.K and Syria etc.

The recognition that is it is infinetely better to help countries and cultures deal with their own problems on their own soil rather than exporting it around the world to countries that are radically different in culture.

An honest debate about the problem, rather than trying to obfuscate by playing up the right wing hate crime angle when there has only been 1 proven, deadly right wing terrorist incident in the U.K in the recent past.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

The figure is very low.

Its more than entire population of Australia. You think its low?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Matt HartwellToday  11:51 am JST

The figure is very low.

Its more than entire population of Australia. You think its low?

yes, 6.2% is very low. Why Australia or New Zealand?

2.4% of Australians are Muslims.

A suspension of all muslim immigration to the U.K for at least 5 years while a thorough review is taken into programs to combat radicalisation. At the very least, a suspension of muslim immigration from countries known to have been the fountain of many incidents in Europe - Pakistan, Tunisia, Somalia etc.

The UK follows international law on refugees. All people arriving can request asylum. The majority of Muslims actually come from the Commonwealth.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Helps if you stop importing people from terror hotspots.

Helps even more if you stop exporting weapons to regimes that kill their own people, or stop dropping bombs on weaker countries that refuse to shine our shoes, bellicose actions which will always create ripples of economic misery across the region 'cos that's where most refugees come from. These people are driven by desperation not stupidity to risk their lives in moving to places without war and despotism; they all know the West is the best. Is it so hard to join the dots and see what "the West" has wrought for economic and geopolitical clout? The refugee woes of Europe and America are just what political scientists call "blowback", and governments "collateral damage".

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

"You’re implying Khan has a pro-terrorism bias?

I’d say “ridiculous assertion” is far too polite to describe such a suggestion."

LOL. I'd say a simple internet search of the many, many times Khan has sought to downplay, dismiss or outright engage in "whataboutitsms" in order to shield the attitudes and actions of his fellow-co-religionists speaks volume enough as to his intentions.

If you're ignorant of what I'm describing, then I'd say it's you who needs a far better, deeper understanding of the history of Mayor Khan than I do, but hey, what do I know?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Of the 697 people who were offered support packages by local Prevent panels, 43% were referred due to fears about far-right radicalization and 30% were linked to Islamic extremism, according to the Home Office.

Who to believe, 700 case studies by people actively involved, or someone on the Internet saying its all Muslims.

Just saying, but it wasn't a Muslim mob who stormed the US Capitol, resulting in several deaths. The situation could easily have spiralled out of control if the authorities had opened fire as they were entitled to. If storming your parliament is not a terror incident, I do not know what is. The US is a similar society to the UK, so the incident cannot be dismissed as irrelevant for the UK.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

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