Ukraine: 'Fast-track' talks underway for missiles, planes

The corruption troupe is just a cat’s paw so that one can take the Putin line while not openly supporting fascism oneself.

but yeah, this wouldn’t have anything all ti do with why the USA is insistent on giving Ukraine anything and everything they demand

The US does not. The US has not so far given them aircraft or the longer range ATACMS missiles for their HIMARS batteries. They are not sending Ukraine the cluster munitions some HIMARS rounds can utilize although those would sure clear out the Russian trenches in a hurry. They also haven't shipped any long range air defense systems or long range missiles that can be launched from their aircraft like JASSM or even SLAM-ER. Patriot PAC-3 is a short range point defense system for use against ballistic missiles. It is not intended for general air defense. The US is doing a quick turn refurb on old HAWK batteries and missiles taken from storage for medium range air defense. Hawk is 1970s stuff updated into the early 1990s before Patriot replaced it but still capable against many of the threats Ukraine faces. Not a front line system any more with old tech. The US is being careful what technologies it sends to Ukraine.

“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and BlackRock CEO Larry Fink agreed to coordinate investment in rebuilding Ukraine, Kyiv announced Wednesday following a meeting between the two men.

You mean to tell me that a for profit company is doing something....for profit? Shocking.

No, this does not support your outlandish claim that Biden and Zelensky set all this up to make money in Ukraine.

“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and BlackRock CEO Larry Fink agreed to coordinate investment in rebuilding Ukraine, Kyiv announced Wednesday following a meeting between the two men.”

Ah, so Russia is in on it. Bastards.

Because Biden will get impeached if he sends the current tanks with the top secret systems.

lol Yeah, and? If he doesn't send them, then Zelensky might release all the dirt he has on the Bidens. Oh now! :D

everybody gets a “cut” of all the unsecured money floating around in the billions of dollars worth.

Is Russia in on the conspiracy too? Because they would have to be too then, no?

Yes he has already secured funding for that too. everybody gets a “cut” of all the unsecured money floating around in the billions of dollars worth.

This seems like a rather expensive gamble, with minimal upside. Kind of weird to think the Russian government is in on it though, by invading and allowing all of this corruption to happen. lol

Well, then why aren't they getting M1 Abrams? I guess they need better dirt to get those, huh?

Because Biden will get impeached if he sends the current tanks with the top secret systems.

He can’t train foreign soldiers on those either, they don’t have US security clearances and the military trainers will report him.

So has to make “new”ones without all of that.

Do you have any idea how many hundreds of billions of dollars it's going to take just to put the country back together?

Yes he has already secured funding for that too. everybody gets a “cut” of all the unsecured money floating around in the billions of dollars worth.

no I gave 4 reasons why it makes no sense to do this.

Your. cough cough, "reasons" make no sense. I will give you the over riding reason why it is almost existential that the west defend Ukraine. It is the lessons learned from the lead up to WWII where UK and other European nations tried appeasement with Hitler. Let him have Czechoslovakia and Austria and maybe he will leave the rest of Europe alone. "Peace in our time". Remember that tripe? Well this time nobody is going to repeat that mistake because it is pretty obvious even if you are blinded by your petty political hatreds that if Russia succeeds in taking Ukraine, their army is not going to stop at the Ukrainian border. Far better to beat them in Ukraine than have a full fledged NATO-Russia war with the dangers inherent.

Yeah there are some risks in what NATO is doing. There is literally no zero risk option available to the west. Doing nothing now just means Russia will next attack NATO countries. Doing nothing is a greater risk than arming the Ukraine against Russia.

You missed the point. The USA has Abrams right now. Wont give to Ukraine. They have to wait for more of the same type Abrams to be built first then they can have those. why?

Oh, wait a minute! I thought the US was beholden to Ukraine by virtue of the dirt Zelensky has on the Bidens. Well, then why aren't they getting M1 Abrams? I guess they need better dirt to get those, huh?

Yep. He agreed to host the proxy war between the West and Russia as long as he got weapons and money in return.

The hole that you are digging is as ridiculous as it is deep.

Let's not forget that you claimed that Biden started the war by 'provoking' Russia into invading. And that this provocation took the form of Biden correctly predicting that Russia was invade.

Go on Black, give us another one to giggle about.

Yep. He agreed to host the proxy war between the West and Russia as long as he got weapons and money in return.

lol Do you have any idea how many hundreds of billions of dollars it's going to take just to put the country back together? And to what end? Again, a very, very ridiculous assertion to make.

Why? Because they haven't been trained on them yet.

You missed the point. The USA has Abrams right now. Wont give to Ukraine. They have to wait for more of the same type Abrams to be built first then they can have those. why?

Zelensky allowed his country to be invaded Russia, so he could use the dirt he has on the Biden's to get "free" weapons to defend themselves from the invasion he allowed to happen? 

Yep. He agreed to host the proxy war between the West and Russia as long as he got weapons and money in return.

Corruption leads to decisions like that.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said Saturday that Ukrainian forces used U.S.-made HIMARS rockets to strike a hospital in the eastern Ukrainian town of Novoaidar, killing 14 people.

Horrible if true,

Unless the building was being used for something else.

No as Germany didnt care at all what the UK said, it had to be the USA to commit before they would. Puppies.

Another convenient conspiracy twist!

America is the puppy dog of the UK. We sent tanks first, then we told Biden to do the same. What has Rishi Sunak got on Biden I wonder?

I've said to much. Let's continue this on our burners.

There was nothing wrong with my post, Congress is aware of the email communications.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/suspicious-hunter-biden-email-may-be-based-on-classified-info-gop-senator/amp/

Another day, another off-topic "Hunter" post....talk about obsessive...

Expect Ray Epps, Hugo Chavez, and Elvis to be woven in here soon...

The USA has Abrams tanks right now. Why cant Ukraine have those tanks?

Why? Because they haven't been trained on them yet. For a new recruit that is a 15 week school after Basic Training. I would guess that for experienced Ukrainian tank crews the training can be compressed. But it is not as if you can walk up to an M-1A2, having never operated one, and use it effectively.

but yeah, this wouldn’t have anything all ti do with why the USA is insistent on giving Ukraine anything and everything they demand.

lol So, Zelensky allowed his country to be invaded Russia, so he could use the dirt he has on the Biden's to get "free" weapons to defend themselves from the invasion he allowed to happen? Honestly mate, you should be thanking the mods for graciously deleting such a nonsensical conspiracy theory.

By your logic the USA is the puppy dog of Britain, since they were the first to commit to sending tanks.

No as Germany didnt care at all what the UK said, it had to be the USA to commit before they would. Puppies.

There was nothing wrong with my post, Congress is aware of the email communications.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/25/suspicious-hunter-biden-email-may-be-based-on-classified-info-gop-senator/amp/

but yeah, this wouldn’t have anything all ti do with why the USA is insistent on giving Ukraine anything and everything they demand.

“buy a burner phone” is never the prelude to lawful activity.

This conspiracy lark is great fun, you can take it anywhere you want.

You never have to be wrong or unsure about anything ever again!

Following the USA like a puppy dog, as usual. why wouldn’t Germany give tanks until Biden agreed to first?

By your logic the USA is the puppy dog of Britain, since they were the first to commit to sending tanks.

This conspiracy lark is great fun, you can take it anywhere you want.

So that they can get free money and weapons too?

This is also delusional, and not how NATO works.

@UChoosePoorly

Mods removed Blacklabel's post

Unfortunately it's a regular occurrence on this site. Totally uncalled for removal of posts supposedly for being 'off topic' or other frivolous reasons. It's sad because JT has many good qualities besides left wing bias reporting and moderating.

Following the USA like a puppy dog, as usual.

Ah yes, exactly like they did going into Iraq invasion, right?

This is delusional.

explain why Sweden and Finland want to join NATO

So that they can get free money and weapons too?

Cards fan - It really is two different realities. They keep it that way, though.

then explain why all the European powers are getting involved, 

Following the USA like a puppy dog, as usual.

why wouldn’t Germany give tanks until Biden agreed to first?

Mods removed Blacklabel's post with the revelations about the Biden conspiracy. I guess JT mods are in on it too. This conspiracy goes deep. Deeper than we can ever imagine. I've said too much. Big Hawk out.

Honestly, they'd be doing themselves a favor by leaving them up, so long as they don't violate TOS by harassing, or using foul or lewd language. It shows others what rightists actually think, what actually shapes their world view.

Mods removed Blacklabel's post with the revelations about the Biden conspiracy. I guess JT mods are in on it too. This conspiracy goes deep. Deeper than we can ever imagine. I've said too much. Big Hawk out.

that is just the reason why Biden has to do it anyway. Compromised.

And just one more point: If Biden's being compromised is why the US is helping Ukraine, then explain why all the European powers are getting involved, explain why Sweden and Finland want to join NATO. I guess they're all compromised too?

no I gave 4 reasons why it makes no sense to do this.

You gave 4 nonsensical, already disproven and discredited reasons, and then gave away the game: It's all about Biden. You hate Biden and think that if Ukraine suffers, so then will Biden, and it's pathetic.

that is just the reason why Biden has to do it anyway. Compromised.

There's no proof of this. It's utter nonsense. If Russia wouldn't have invaded, we wouldn't be supplying weapons to Ukraine. Blame them.

One wonders what the point of stupid statements from Russia and North Korea really is.

Russia and our resident right wing Putin bootlickers are constantly outraged that Ukraine has the nerve to defend itself with a degree of competence. They use phrases like, 'prolong the war' and 'proxy war' to try and justify their support for Russia because they are unable to admit that they want Ukraine to be crushed.

Quite how any human with an ounce of self respect would want this outcome is bewildering. They are a mess.

And there we have: Ukraine deserves to get destroyed, because Biden. Pure nonsense.

no I gave 4 reasons why it makes no sense to do this.

that is just the reason why Biden has to do it anyway. Compromised.

YrralToday 07:22 am JST

DT,has it made any different, Ukraine is being carved up like a Thanksgiving day turkey,you people that support this war ,sure do not have any solution

Nobody but Russians and their apologists like you support this war. Everyone else wants Russia out and the war to end.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said Saturday that Ukrainian forces used U.S.-made HIMARS rockets to strike a hospital in the eastern Ukrainian town of Novoaidar, killing 14 people.

Horrible if true, but stack that up against all the Russian strikes on hospitals, schools and other civilian targets with no military value and the balance is still massively against Russia with literally thousands of innocents killed in such actions.

Russia and North Korea have accused the West of prolonging and taking a direct role in the war

An amazing statement. Russia started this war and it is Russia that is prolonging the conflict along with its weapons suppliers, North Korea and Iran. As long as Russia remains in Ukraine territory, it is prolonging this conflict. Any sensible person can see that. One wonders what the point of stupid statements from Russia and North Korea really is.

See, it is unimaginable to some people that the reasons for doing something might extend beyond caring about only oneself.

all this only because the president’s son and his buddies worked there and Zelensky has dirt on them all.

all this only because the president’s son and his buddies worked there and Zelensky has dirt on them all.

And there we have: Ukraine deserves to get destroyed, because Biden. Pure nonsense.

Well, that's a lot of reasons for sure. I was hoping that you would eventually come on board, but it sounds like you have made up your mind.

Blacklabel - if and when those officials are held accountable, will you then consider supporting Ukraine in their defense? Or are there other reasons?

corruption, loss of our military technology advantage, weakening of our military stockpile putting us at risk, misuse of our taxpayer dollars when Americans are doing without, inciting world war 3 with a mentally deficient leader on charge. And more.

all this only because the president’s son and his buddies worked there and Zelensky has dirt on them all.

Corruption that caused numerous government officials to resign but no further action taken against them.

Yes, and as has already been discussed, not helping Ukraine won't help it become less corrupt. In fact, quite the opposite. Once this war is over, and Russia loses, and Ukraine looks to become integrated into the EU, they will help assist with anti-corruption measures.

Blacklabel - if and when those officials are held accountable, will you then consider supporting Ukraine in their defense? Or are there other reasons?

So come on now, time to think of a new reason to oppose aiding Ukraine.

Corruption that caused numerous government officials to resign but no further action taken against them.

Yes, time to find a new reason to oppose doing anything to help Ukraine remain a free, independent state.

Do not deceive yourself nor others. Neither America nor Americans care about any freedom and independence of Ukraine. don't give the world lies. Never America will leave this war behind. America will never forgive Russia for losing Crimea! Such a place was missed up! There were 5 military bases in the plan, in a divine place. and even under the very side of Russia. America stayed in such fools! No, America will never forgive

Because we know Russia will have one too within a week of us giving them to Ukraine. That’s your “reality” that you trying to deflect from.

Or maybe it's because the US still needs them? Also, the differences in repairs and training needed to operate US tanks are another factor in deciding what the US sends. So come on now, time to think of a new reason to oppose aiding Ukraine.

Blacklabel - if they capture them, sure. Both sides have destroyed, damaged, and captured the other side's tanks. Nothing lasts/lives forever.

Blacklabel - We are sending Tank Recovery vehicles along with the Abrams:

The Russia will have a full set, tank and recovery vehicle.

Come on, back to reality.

The USA has Abrams tanks right now. Why cant Ukraine have those tanks?

Because we know Russia will have one too within a week of us giving them to Ukraine. That’s your “reality” that you trying to deflect from.

So all disabled tanks will be removed from the battlefield before Russia can capture them? You sure about that? And how?

Yes, time to find a new reason to oppose doing anything to help Ukraine remain a free, independent state.

Blacklabel - We are sending Tank Recovery vehicles along with the Abrams:

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-getting-m88-armored-recovery-vehicles-along-with-abrams-tanks-2023-1

"In addition to the Abrams, we're also procuring eight M88 recovery vehicles as part of this package," the official added. "These are the vehicles that go with the Abrams to be able to provide ... recovery operations to make sure that the Ukrainians will be able to keep these Abrams up and running."

lol No, that's not how that works.

So all disabled tanks will be removed from the battlefield before Russia can capture them? You sure about that? And how?

Tank breaks down, its abandoned and Russia and China have new tank technology.

lol No, that's not how that works.

hint: the new ones to be built wont be the same as the ones the US uses, they have to remove all the secret stuff. USA cant train foreign soldiers on our secret technology.

Come on, back to reality. Where Russia is trying to make Ukraine into a vassal state.

Tank breaks down, its abandoned and Russia and China have new tank technology.

You were obviously never in the military. Find out what a tank recovery vehicle is. There is specialized equipment for hauling busted tanks off the battlefield during combat. If you learn more about the best western tanks you will discover an awful lot of battle damage can be repaired by their crews in the field in an hour or less. Even armor panels are field replaceable now.

have you thought why the US suddenly has no tanks to give Ukraine? 

Probably because it is far from true. The US has an abundance of M-1A1s that are in storage. They are upgraded to M-1A2SEP standard as needed. The Marines just withdrew all of their M-1s from service and these are available for transfer. The US Army has already said it will take M-1A2s out of stock and take some M-1A1s out of storage to convert to M-1A2SEP models.

Now he wants fighter jets and long range missiles while he waits for his tanks to be built.

now it will take months or a year to build them new ones?

> Kiev's clown said it would be too late, he needs tanks today, better - yesterday:)

Russian tanks are antiques just ask saving.

Tank breaks down, its abandoned and Russia and China have new tank technology.

have you thought why the US suddenly has no tanks to give Ukraine? No extra in stock right now, sorry! and now it will take months or a year to build them new ones?

hint: the new ones to be built wont be the same as the ones the US uses, they have to remove all the secret stuff. USA cant train foreign soldiers on our secret technology.

the sooner the death and destruction stops and negotiations start, the better. All this other stuff is just prolonging the proxy war.

Of course everyone wants to war to end as soon as possible, but only Russia can make that happen by going home. Ukraine could surrender, I suppose, but they know what awaits them if that happens and I haven't seen any indication that they want to give up their sovereignty. A just war is better than an unjust peace.

so how are the taken from the battlefield? Is there like a “time out” taken during the battle to allow this to happen?

No, there is no "time out." They're hauled away from the battlefield, and repaired elsewhere.

the sooner the death and destruction stops and negotiations start, the better. All this other stuff is just prolonging the proxy war.

Again, nonsense. Ukraine can't negotiate with Russia when Russia doesn't even accept Ukraine's right to exist a free, sovereign state.

tanks and other armored vehicles are transported on lowboy flatbeds 

so how are the taken from the battlefield? Is there like a “time out” taken during the battle to allow this to happen?

Is it better to you that Ukraine be wiped off the map?

the sooner the death and destruction stops and negotiations start, the better. All this other stuff is just prolonging the proxy war.

These people are on their own side, and don't care about anyone else. They learned from the best (Trump)

Yeah, the US and EU have prevented the Ukraine from being conquered by Russia. It is looking increasingly likely Russia will be defeated and Ukrainian independence preserved. Do you have a problem with that? Who's side are you on?

Despite who is saying it, this if clearly factual.

Yeah, the US and EU have prevented the Ukraine from being conquered by Russia. It is looking increasingly likely Russia will be defeated and Ukrainian independence preserved. Do you have a problem with that? Who's side are you on?

DT,has it made any different, Ukraine is being carved up like a Thanksgiving day turkey,you people that support this war ,sure do not have any solution

Emphatically yes they have. Western ATGMs and MANPADS stopped the initial Russian advance cold. That is the reason that 60km or so long column of tanks never made it to Kiev. Since May Ukraine has taken back territory captured by Russia for a net gain. You can attribute much of that to Turkish UAVs, HIMARS and western artillery, along with better tactics on the part of the Ukrainians.

The US initiated a crash program to arm Ukrainian MiGs with HARM anti-radiation missiles. It normally requires around two years to integrate a missile into a combat jet that has never carried that missile before. The US did it in 45 days. It's quick and dirty but the UAF can now shoot HARMs at Russian artillery spotting radars, communications centers and some short range air defense systems like BUK and TOR-1M. HARM has largely been replaced in US service by better things but since tens of thousands of them were built there will be no shortage of them for Ukraine.

By the end of winter the Russian Army will be exhausted and you will see what happens when western tanks and infantry combat vehicles operating together with artillery can do in a mobile campaign. By then Patriot and IRIS-T will operational too.

Tank breaks down, armed military techs are sent to Ukraine battlefield to fix them, world war 3 starts

From accounts in the defense press Ukrainian tanks and other armored vehicles are transported on lowboy flatbeds to depots on the Czech and Slovak republics for repair and upgrades. The US and Czechs are together funding the refurbishment of 90 additional T-72 tanks for Ukraine, work being accomplished at a Czech depot.

I'm as serious as never

So you are being sarcastic!

The quicker Ukraine gets the weapons systems it needs the quicker the russian fascist will be kicked out and the more innocent lives will be saved. russian lives can easily be saved by just going home or surrendering.

Tokyo

Keep adding more fuel to the fire..

Pathetic clowns

Agreed the russians are pathetic clowns, so glad you realise it. Having started the fire by invading a peaceful neighbour they insist on adding more fuel to the fire of their own pyre. Sadly the imperialist russian autocrats never have and still don’t give a damn about the lives of the serfs so just keep piling the bodies on to the conflagration.

Despite who is saying it, this if clearly factual.

Is it better to you that Ukraine be wiped off the map?

proxy war just being extended. Tank breaks down, armed military techs are sent to Ukraine battlefield to fix them, world war 3 starts.

Lol no it won't. This is cowardly and pathetic. Oh, we can't help Ukraine, because Russia might get angry. Boohoo

Blacklabel - Russia is having enough trouble with just Ukraine and western aid. I don't think Russia wants to fight a war against the combined armies of NATO.

Russia and North Korea have accused the West of prolonging and taking a direct role in the war by sending Kyiv increasingly sophisticated weapons.

Despite who is saying it, this if clearly factual.

proxy war just being extended. Tank breaks down, armed military techs are sent to Ukraine battlefield to fix them, world war 3 starts.

I take it you're being sarcastic?

I'm as serious as never. And what's wrong with this phrase?

ok1517 said more convincingly?

Let's get Ukraine the tools they need to kick the invaders out.

What can be more reliable than a claim of Defejce Ministry?!

I take it you're being sarcastic?

Its claim of a strike in Novoaidar could not be immediately verified.

How are they going to verify, I wonder..What can be more reliable than a claim of Defejce Ministry?! May be the very SUSIE BLANN would run down to Novoaidar?!:))))) A chto? The Russians don't shoot presse

14 killed - wonder whether that was again RuSSian marauders hiding in a civilian building.

Besides - do you still believe in any claims made by PUTAin & associates?

At any time they open their mouths all you can expect is nothing but lies!

Ukraine prevails!

If that hospital had been in Kiev it would have been the headline, but since the hospital was in an East Ukrainian separatist province it's buried deep down in the article as a ho hum statistic.

Within this specific article, it’s still the very first mention of any casualties.

Keep adding more fuel to the fire..

Pathetic clowns..

DT,has it made any different, Ukraine is being carved up like a Thanksgiving day turkey,you people that support this war ,sure do not have any solution

Poland may have already sent some their MiG-29s to Ukraine clandestinely, calling them "spare parts". News sources seem to be in disagreement on this subject.

If you spend your own money,you would not be begging for others,this is like asking a neighbor for a gun to protect your house,and you already have money, Ukrainain have enough fund to buy all the weapon,instead they choose to freeload on the rest of the world