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Ukraine accuses Russia of sending in tanks, armor

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By DALTON BENNETT, JIM HEINTZ and RAF CASERT

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night knightAUG. 31, 2014 - 12:58AM JST

Americans used to train Georgians and Ukranians. In result, Georgians and Ukrainians always drop their weapon and run from attacking Russians.

So much for U.S.-imposed combat spirit.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@JoeBigsAUG. 30, 2014 - 10:53AM JST

Putin's goal is simple, he wishes to reform the old Soviet empire from the ashes.

Even if Putin wants to revive the USSR, that's just non of your business. Please, care more about your domestic affairs, not Russian.

Like I said, you guys are now changing your propaganda tactic, now you are trying to make the Russian military to be a white knight coming in to rescue innocent civilians from blood thirsty Nazis. But, that is also far from the truth. The Russian military is the reason that this so-called civil war happened in the first place.

Innocent civilians in Eastern Ukraine always consider Russians as their saviours . That is why they praised rebels and threw eggs and rotten tomatoes into Ukrainian POWs in Donetsk. You should do your homework more carefully before talking about "propaganda".

We'll wait until this scrimmage turns into a real firefight. Then your forces can see them inaction.

Americans used to train Georgians and Ukranians. In result, Georgians and Ukrainians always drop their weapon and run from attacking Russians. Indeed, all you can is to fight weak countries.

I'm pretty sure that NATO has been preparing for a dance with Russia for a very long time.

Sure that NATO has been reparing to drop weapon and run. I know.

No, I claimed and can back-up that the T-72BM variant wasn't exported, I never said that the T-72 wasn't exported. The T-72 is like rabbits, they are everywhere, but the T-72BM is in only one place.

Hardly you can differ one version of T72 from another one.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Thunderbird2AUG. 30, 2014 - 05:06PM JST

Alex, remember the Red Army fled from Afghanistan with its tail between its legs. All they have in their favour is numbers.

The USSR removed troops from Afganistan just like the USA have recently removed troops from Iraq. I knew nothing about "tail between legs".

JoeBigsAUG. 30, 2014 - 06:02PM JST

Carpet bombing was and is a valid strategy, it proved to be very effective and that is why it is still being used.

True. Carpet bombings were used by cowards ( examples NAZIs and Americans) against innocent civilians in various countries with poor military forces.. It is easy to kill innocent and defenceless civilians from a high attitude. It is easy for armed adult to kill a defenceless woman or kid, so to speak. But when a rival has a well-developed air defence systems, he clears skies of invaders without problems.

It was first used by the Nationalist in the Spanish Civil war and has since been used in just about every war.

..been used in every war by Americans. Yes, that 's right. See above.

When NATO uses it against the Sovie....I mean, against the Russian forces as they invade Europe, it will be as effective and will inflict devastating casualties on their forces, So when they start, find a foxhole and hope.

You are too much addicted to military PC games, aren't you?

Then don't worry, you'll be as safe as the Iraqi Republican Guards were in their T-72s when they got carpet bombed in 91'.

Russia is not Iraq. Iraq had no ability to stand against a bunch of bullies (USA and EU). Russia is able to do it.

Speaking about Afghanistan, so how did the mighty Russian army do there?

Enough and much more than NATO has accomplished.

do you know that NATO is better equipped and have more troops, tanks and ships than Russia?

In what PC game, could you tell me? History says that NATO has limited combat experience and only against relatively weak countries. After glorious victory over NAZIs and Cold War Russians can fight ANY enemy in the world. Russians are Warriors while NATO troopers are cowards and murderers. Even the infamous aggression in Yugoslavia proved it once again. When Russians suddenly seized an airport in Pristina, NATO troops stopped and shut up. In short, you have no clue what is a total war.

If there were a war between Russian and NATO, it would be a very short one. And this time a Russian Winter won't save you.

Russians need not a help of winter. And you are right, it will be a very short one. In a few days poor remains of your military units will jump right into contaminated Atlantic, trying to swim towards to US sea coast.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

If Putin was in charge of a real military he might be dangerous.

alex rockstoneAug. 30, 2014 - 11:40AM JST Carpet bombing is a mode of cowardice. It took place in Japan where air raids were used to kill as many civilians as possible. The country had no any developed air defence at that time.

Carpet bombing was and is a valid strategy, it proved to be very effective and that is why it is still being used. It was first used by the Nationalist in the Spanish Civil war and has since been used in just about every war. When NATO uses it against the Sovie....I mean, against the Russian forces as they invade Europe, it will be as effective and will inflict devastating casualties on their forces, So when they start, find a foxhole and hope.

alex rockstoneAug. 30, 2014 - 11:40AM JST Then history repeated in Korea. Only in Vietnam air defence system proved its reliability. In former Yugoslavia an outdated missile successfully shot down F-117. So nobody will allow you to practice carpet bombings on those tank columns. Any attempt could cause a close contact to missile of well-known BUK or similar air defence systems.

Then don't worry, you'll be as safe as the Iraqi Republican Guards were in their T-72s when they got carpet bombed in 91'.

alex rockstoneAug. 30, 2014 - 11:40AM JST Exactly, "for a dance". When hundreds of coffins with NATO soldiers return back, you will quickly dislike that "dance". As it has been pointed above, the current situation in Iraq and Afganistan proves that NATO troops are unable to fight effectively.

Speaking about Afghanistan, so how did the mighty Russian army do there?

Before you continue on your Baghdad Bob rant, do you know that NATO is better equipped and have more troops, tanks and ships than Russia? If there were a war between Russian and NATO, it would be a very short one. And this time a Russian Winter won't save you.

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Alex, remember the Red Army fled from Afghanistan with its tail between its legs. All they have in their favour is numbers.

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JoeBigsAUG. 30, 2014 - 10:53AM JST

No, he was correct, carpet bombing the area would turn those T-72BMs into garbage. The Warthog is great at whipping out T-72s (any variant), but why use them now? We'll wait until this scrimmage turns into a real firefight. Then your forces can see them inaction

Carpet bombing is a mode of cowardice. It took place in Japan where air raids were used to kill as many civilians as possible. The country had no any developed air defence at that time. Then history repeated in Korea. Only in Vietnam air defence system proved its reliability. In former Yugoslavia an outdated missile successfully shot down F-117. So nobody will allow you to practice carpet bombings on those tank columns. Any attempt could cause a close contact to missile of well-known BUK or similar air defence systems.

I'm pretty sure that NATO has been preparing for a dance with Russia for a very long time. So, don't worry about NATO forces not being prepared to come to the rescue of the Ukrainian freedom fighters when Russian fully invades Europe.

Exactly, "for a dance". When hundreds of coffins with NATO soldiers return back, you will quickly dislike that "dance". As it has been pointed above, the current situation in Iraq and Afganistan proves that NATO troops are unable to fight effectively.

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Ukraine accuses Russia of sending in tanks, armor

Russia is now fully invading the Ukraine and Putin isn't scared of silly sanctions when there so much to gain. It will take leadership to stop him and not backdoor deals!

He will not abide with any deals, he'll just keep invading his neighbors.

Putin's goal is simple, he wishes to reform the old Soviet empire from the ashes and the only way he can do that is to use force.

night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 09:57AM JST Well, I am glad that neo nazis from Kiev who bombed innocent civilians in cities of Eastern Ukraine are almost exterminated now. Who are those magic saviours : either pro-Russian rebels, or Russians, or ETs from Jupiter I don't care at all.

Like I said, you guys are now changing your propaganda tactic, now you are trying to make the Russian military to be a white knight coming in to rescue innocent civilians from blood thirsty Nazis. But, that is also far from the truth. The Russian military is the reason that this so-called civil war happened in the first place.

night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 09:57AM JST Perhaps, you have confused A-10 Thunderbolts to B2s. Every tank column has a unit of aerial defence inside to encounter any possible "wonderers".

No, he was correct, carpet bombing the area would turn those T-72BMs into garbage. The Warthog is great at whipping out T-72s (any variant), but why use them now? We'll wait until this scrimmage turns into a real firefight. Then your forces can see them inaction. @turbotsatAUG. 30, 2014 - 04:10AM JST

night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 09:57AM JST If locals dislike NATO "help", they will quickly convert invaders into manure for potato and sun-flower fields. Eastern Ukraine has a slightly more complicated landscape by comparison to Iraq of Afganistan.

I'm pretty sure that NATO has been preparing for a dance with Russia for a very long time. So, don't worry about NATO forces not being prepared to come to the rescue of the Ukrainian freedom fighters when Russian fully invades Europe.

night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 09:57AM JST I disagree. It's a classic example of civil war.

Well, if you are comparing this war to the Spanish civil war, then yes, it is a civil war. In the Spanish Civil war different nations sent in forces to fight on each side. Communist and Socialist joined the Spanish Republic, while Fascist and Right wingers joined the Nationalist.

In this case Russia is supporting........one second, oh yeah, Russia is supporting it's Russian troops in the Ukraine fight against the Ukrainian forces. Opps, this isn't a civil war at all, correction, this is an aggressive invasion.

Hope this clears up a few misunderstandings.

night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 09:57AM JST You claimed that "T-72 was never sent to 3rd countries therefore only Russian Army owns this model". I have replied that T-72 has been sold to various countries, including Ukraine. The video shows that Ukrainian machine-building design bureau from Kharkiv produced a modernized version of T-72

No, I claimed and can back-up that the T-72BM variant wasn't exported, I never said that the T-72 wasn't exported. The T-72 is like rabbits, they are everywhere, but the T-72BM is in only one place.

Get it now?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@JoeBigsAUG. 30, 2014 - 06:33AM JST

To start a "main battle tank" means that the tank is in heavy use in a country, it doesn't mean that it is the only tank that nation has. Again, look-up what main battle tank means (MBT) before you try and make it seem like this is nothing.

You claimed that "T-72 was never sent to 3rd countries therefore only Russian Army owns this model". I have replied that T-72 has been sold to various countries, including Ukraine. The video shows that Ukrainian machine-building design bureau from Kharkiv produced a modernized version of T-72.

One thing I am glad about is this time you aren't trying to deny that Russia has invaded the Ukraine.

Well, I am glad that neo nazis from Kiev who bombed innocent civilians in cities of Eastern Ukraine are almost exterminated now. Who are those magic saviours : either pro-Russian rebels, or Russians, or ETs from Jupiter I don't care at all.

@gelendestrasseAUG. 29, 2014 - 11:30PM JST

A few B2 bombers should do wonders for a Russian tank column. Let's see who's laughing then.

Perhaps, you have confused A-10 Thunderbolts to B2s. Every tank column has a unit of aerial defence inside to encounter any possible "wonderers".

@turbotsatAUG. 30, 2014 - 04:10AM JST

Tanks not officially Russian, so OK for NATO to go in and whack the hell out of them.

If locals dislike NATO "help", they will quickly convert invaders into manure for potato and sun-flower fields. Eastern Ukraine has a slightly more complicated landscape by comparison to Iraq of Afganistan.

It's not a civil war.

@Jeff HuffmanAUG. 30, 2014 - 06:34AM JST

I disagree. It's a classic example of civil war.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

FizzBitAUG. 30, 2014 - 01:12AM JST Too funny. So we're all sitting at our computers with the screen glowing on our face, reading the details about this civil war.

It's not a civil war. While the Crimea has passed through numerous hands over the last three-hundred years, it only came to have a Russian majority during the Cold War, when the Soviet policy through the Baltics and various occupied territories acquired since the end of WWI, was to resettle as many Russians as possible to dilute the native population. Previous to the 1920s, the Tartars were the majority in the Crimea, but the Soviets exiled them

Ukraine, on the other hand, while also being shunted amongst various empires through time, has always had an overwhelming Ukrainian majority, except in the eastern edge where the Soviets transplanted hundreds of thousands of Russians.

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night knightAug. 30, 2014 - 12:09AM JST Wow, guys. First, you discovered a BUK launcher vehicle under flight path of MH17. Now you're making a claim that " T72 is a Russian main battle tank because NATO says so"

To start a "main battle tank" means that the tank is in heavy use in a country, it doesn't mean that it is the only tank that nation has.

Next, Wow, guys. First, you discovered a BUK launcher vehicle under flight path of MH17. Now you're making a claim that " T72 is a Russian main battle tank because NATO says so".

Again, look-up what main battle tank means (MBT) before you try and make it seem like this is nothing.

One thing I am glad about is this time you aren't trying to deny that Russia has invaded the Ukraine.

FizzBitAug. 30, 2014 - 01:12AM JST Of course there are Russians in Ukraine. Who wouldn't go and help their brothers defend against US power stealing the Ukrainian government and supporting overt NAZI's. No brainer there! Why is it that some here refuse to remember the evil of Nazism? Clueless!

So you realized that your previous silly propaganda wasn't working, so now you guys are going with the truth. Brilliant! Admit it and flick a finger at the West.

Don't worry Putin could ride a tank right through Kiev and Obama and the rest of the weakling Western leaders would just sit on their hands. Business is more important than freedom.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tanks not officially Russian, so OK for NATO to go in and whack the hell out of them.

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Too funny. So we're all sitting at our computers with the screen glowing on our face, reading the details about this civil war. Posting comments about who's lying and who"s telling the truth.

With so many "wolf crying" from Kiev about this invasion or that invasion "of three trucks" where is the common sense?

Of course there are Russians in Ukraine. Who wouldn't go and help their brothers defend against US power stealing the Ukrainian government and supporting overt NAZI's. No brainer there! Why is it that some here refuse to remember the evil of Nazism? Clueless! The Kiev puppets show phoney benevolence as they bomb women and children in city centers. Disgusting! You should be ashamed of yourselves for supporting a bunch of rich people that rules Kiev.

I really don't like illogical clear thinking people. They are just tools of the petrodollar oppression.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

@Thunderbird2AUG. 29, 2014 - 11:26PM JST

T72BM, a not-for-export version of the T72 tank used only by RUSSIAN armoured units was videod in Eastern Ukraine. Well, three of them were. No markings.

@JoeBigsAUG. 29, 2014 - 11:29PM JST

Russia has a mainline battle tanks, it's called the T-72BM by NATO. Russia doesn't sell this tank to anyone, no matter how much they are willing to pay, well you may get a Polkóvnik to sell you a few if you have the right amount of cash and a quick exit for him and his family. But other than that Russia will not part with these "top of the line deathtraps".

Wow, guys. First, you discovered a BUK launcher vehicle under flight path of MH17. Now you're making a claim that " T72 is a Russian main battle tank because NATO says so".

Check, please, this video about main Russian battle tank :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SO4R2j93nQ

Actually, Ukraine has modernized T-72 tanks. Here is a promo of T-72 main battle tank, developed by the Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau. Note that Kharkiv is Ukrainian city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV90pIhM1VY

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Everybody is well aware that there are now thousands of Russians, along with Russian military vehicles, in Ukraine. The rebel leader said so, Obama says so, the Ukraine says so. Only the Russian leadership is saying "no we don't". Putin is a liar and a cheat. I hope they ramp up sanctions and deploy NATO troops in Poland. A few B2 bombers should do wonders for a Russian tank column. Let's see who's laughing then.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ukraine accuses Russia of sending in tanks, armor

Is this true?

Well folks, figure it out for yourselves.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

Putin is riding a tank down the street but the Western Leaders are so daft that they just don't get it!

Russia has a mainline battle tanks, it's called the T-72BM by NATO. Russia doesn't sell this tank to anyone, no matter how much they are willing to pay, well you may get a Polkóvnik to sell you a few if you have the right amount of cash and a quick exit for him and his family. But other than that Russia will not part with these "top of the line deathtraps".

So, why do the simple, poor, innocent farmer warriors known as the "Ukrainian rebels" have these Russian gems in their arsenal? If you are like me, well these are things that make you say "hmmmm". But, if you're a member of the 30-Rubel Putin Army, well then, it's called "luck".

To them Baba Yaga is magically providing the Pro-Putin separatist with these T-72B1s and more advanced weapons, but to the anyone else who isn't getting paid to post, it's Putin.

This is a farce and sadly leaders in the West are falling for it.

Once again gents, I will be plainly honest, to me Putin is a stronger leader than Obama and the rest of the Western leaders who keep chasing their tails. Putin toys with each and everyone of them like a Grand Master Chess player playing against 3rd graders.

Being honest lads, I wish, I really wish Putin was one of the Western leaders facing off against him. But, Putin isn't and that is what is sad.

Putin, he is toying with Obama, Hollande, Merkel, Cameron and the rest of the Western leaders. They are so disorganized that I am certain they could find the way out if they were in front of it.

That is why I wish someone will rise to the top and take a leadership roll that didn't entail kowtowing to Putin's every whim.

But, sadly I don't see any real leadership from the West, so I hope that this issue will be resolved before it gets any worse.

BTW, can we in the West borrow Putin for a few months to deal with ISIS that way they won't be a threat anymore!?!

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T72BM, a not-for-export version of the T72 tank used only by RUSSIAN armoured units was videod in Eastern Ukraine. Well, three of them were. No markings.

Do you remember Comical Ali in Baghdad saying there were no American tanks near the city? In the bacground could be seen M1 Abrams near the city. The Russians are like that - we'll see pretty soon a rebel being interviewed, denying Russian involvement... as a BMP2M rumbles past flying the Russian flag.

Oh, and I love the comment from a rebel leader - the Russians fighting in Ukraine are on holiday. Yes, or course they are, you loon.

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By the way friends - you can have actual info about this civil war at the address http://militarymaps.info/

Actual map of course !

(it is not advertising)

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Putin said there are no Russian troops there but he never said there are no Russian citizens there. Many Russians and not only Russians many Europeans (Spanish, French , other Slavic nations) have volunteers there. And so far it's easy to accuse without proofs. You guys call Putin a liar, well where are your proofs?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Hahahaha...... where's Putin to say again: "those are not Russian troops."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Ukraine anyway a recent invention - used to be split between Poland and Russia until after WW1 and even for a while between the wars......

That depends a bit on what you mean by "recent." Ukraine was once a European power when Russian influence barely extended beyond the wooden gates of Moscow.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Vlad is such a liar. He's denied there are any Russian troops in Ukraine.

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Asserting (again) that Russian soldiers and armaments had crossed into Ukraine to support the separatists, President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine canceled a trip to Turkey on Thursday, as his national security council ordered mandatory conscription for the armed forces.|The situation is certainly extremely difficult and nobody is going to simplify it.|Still, it is controlled enough for us to refrain from panic.| Poroshenko said.

Taking sudden trips to Turkey and establishing mandatory military service (an emergency draft (conscription)) by executive order without input from elected officials are not acts of a cool and level headed democratic leader. Right now Poroshenko is just trying his best to avoid thinking about being sent to the political cooler like Yulia Volodymyrivna Tymoshenko. No panic though, not yet, still refraining from that.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

“Russian forces have entered Ukraine,” President Petro Poroshenko said in Kiev, canceling a foreign trip and calling an emergency meeting of his security council.

So 25-26 August Ukrainian forces were defeted by rebels

about 7 000 troops hundreds dozens of combat vehicles and artillery (including rocket and heavy artillery )

fell into the pockets - and now eliminated ......

So Petro Poroshenko is in trouble....

Russian forces - only one excuse for great Ukrainian leader

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

It's quite amusing the correlation between western propaganda news sources (like the AP) proclaiming so-called Russian "invasions" of Ukraine and the inability to get cell phone cameras to work in the region.

Of course cell phone cameras work in that region, but you can only send pictures in cities.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The Chinese have largely been silent. As Russia's main ally, it paints a pretty interesting picture. But the Ruskies still have Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What does the Chinese government have to say about this disaster in eastern Ukraine?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Go Vlad!! He knows that "the West" has too much on its plate just now, so pushing the agenda in Ukraine. Ukraine anyway a recent invention - used to be split between Poland and Russia until after WW1 and even for a while between the wars.......

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Mr Putin is the 'Russian Lincoln that has a passion to unify a renegaded land that is now run by a group of unpopular banits known as the regieme in Kiev. Russia is Ukraine and Ukraine is Russia. Kiev the city that Russian soldiers bleeded so much..... I admire Mr Putin patrioticism and the defiance of Russian people. Good luck Russia<>

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

The Russians have been and are lying. What's worse is the level of propaganda in Russia and the brainwashed masses. This is going to set Russia back seriously.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

JoeBigsAUG. 29, 2014 - 11:30AM JST

And the Western leaders will continue barking and not biting while ole Putin runs around doing whatever he wants.

They support the Evil Junta in Ukranian capital. The Evil Junta kill innocent civilians by shelling them in Eastern Ukraine every day. Besides, Western leaders also spread false information and lie about MH17 and Russians are VERY angered. If Western leaders try to bite, in response Russians will break them all venomous fangs.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Ukraine accuses Russia of sending in tanks, armor

And the Western leaders will continue barking and not biting while ole Putin runs around doing whatever he wants.

This Western strategy is working as good as Neville Chamberlain's Appeasement strategy!

Goooooooooo Liberal leaders!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Needless to say, Russians care less about what West is saying. Western leaders has been supporting a bloody junta from Kiev all the time. Western representatives accused Russians and rebels of downing of Malaysian MH17 without evidence. When Ukranians bombed and shelled cities, towns and villages of Eastern Ukraine, it was OK for the West. So, Russians are well aware that westerners are liars and cynical hypocrits. Now it's time for revenge.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Saw on another news site, but forgot which, an opinion that going for the Ukrainian coast along the Sea of Azov between Crimea and Russia is such a big move that it is likely part of a larger strategy decided on before, to connect Crimea more closely with Russia and surround the Sea.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wouldn't believe anything that the Russians are saying right now. Over the past week they have violated Finnish airspace 3 times claiming it as a 'accident'... More like trying to intimidate the Finns who are signing a new NATO treaty..

To be fair ... every time the United States violated Soviet airspace ... they claimed it was a navigational error. Such excuses are insulting to the intelligence, but nevertheless are standard dodges.

It is interesting to see the Russians change their strategy, and one must wonder at the cause. Perhaps they've decided that whether they infiltrated or not, the West would say they did (and most of us would believe them), so they might as well move in for real for their national interest.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Then I'm almost positive that they are lying about the Russian troops in Ukraine

No need to add "almost" to your statement.

.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

What does Xi Jingping have to say about this?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I wouldn't believe anything that the Russians are saying right now. Over the past week they have violated Finnish airspace 3 times claiming it as a 'accident'... More like trying to intimidate the Finns who are signing a new NATO treaty..

So if they are doing this to a neutral country. Then I'm almost positive that they are lying about the Russian troops in Ukraine.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

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