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Ukraine battling to stem Russian advance in north of Donetsk region

36 Comments
By Pavel Polityuk and Simon Lewis

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36 Comments

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Shelling, destroying, any targets those Russian "forces" can hit.

But it ain't over until the f.. lady sings. And that can take quite some time.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Russia slowly and deliberately advancing towards their goals. Ukraine needs to get serious in negotiating a stop to the pointless killing. They cannot "win", every life lost now is just a waste. All very brave but still a waste.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

Russia is now in good position to roll up any remaining resistance all the way to Kiev. Life isn't a movie, sometimes the bad guy wins.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

I wish nothing but victory for Ukraine!

Russia and Putin are the laughingstock of the World.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Mr Kipling

Russia slowly and deliberately advancing towards their goals. Ukraine needs to get serious in negotiating a stop to the pointless killing.

They are nowhere close to their goals. Russia’s stated objectives in its invasion of Ukraine remain regime change in Kyiv and the truncation of the sovereignty of any Ukrainian state. So I don't see Putin at the negotiating table any time soon.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

proxy

Russia is now in good position to roll up any remaining resistance all the way to Kiev. 

Surely, you jest. They don't have that capability.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Ukraine should have negotiated months ago before they got in the poor position they are now.

all that money isn’t worth being used by the west as a proxy war location. Once the west loses interest and runs out of money, Ukraine is done.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Ukraine should have negotiated months ago before they got in the poor position they are now.

Ahh yes, they should have negotiated with a country that denies its existence.

Once the west loses interest and runs out of money, Ukraine is done.

Well that's certainly what fascist pro-invasion types hope for.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Ukrainain treat weapon like they are toys,posting up on social media, something a child would do,these Himars are supposed to be in seperate location, whether Russian destroyed them ,only Ukrainain know

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Biden and Johnson have their own problems and no one is supporting to send 750 billion MORE to Ukraine.

they were in a much better negotiating position in May than now. Fact.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Ukraine should have negotiated months ago before they got in the poor position they are now.

Or in other words...surrender. Some folks just believe you should roll over and appease an invader...

Good thing not many of them were around in the 1940s....

all that money isn’t worth being used by the west as a proxy war location. Once the west loses interest and runs out of money, Ukraine is done.

Kremlin faux talking points...as Russia's economy falls below third-world standards and it defaults on its bonds and debt...

The US far-right continues its adoration of Putin...

1 ( +7 / -6 )

It’s just a factual assessment of the situation.

Ukraine is in a worse negotiating position every day that passes and they can’t actually win this militarily.

So negotiations are the only way out of it.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Ukraine battling to stem Russian advance in north of Donetsk region

This was inevitable. So sad all the Biden US UK EU NATO cheerleading and warmongering, AGAIN, fooled so many.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

So who in the west is agreeing to pay the 750 billion dollar bill to rebuild Ukraine? It got really quiet after Zelensky demanded that.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

This was inevitable. So sad all the Biden US UK EU NATO cheerleading and warmongering, AGAIN, fooled so many.

The only warmongers in Ukraine are the fascist invaders. Take it up with them.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

So who in the west is agreeing to pay the 750 billion dollar bill to rebuild Ukraine? It got really quiet after Zelensky demanded that.

This is the key point I think. It is one thing to send over tons of already existing military equipment to a country that is waging a war that is going well. The upfront cost is low for politicians (no immediate taxes needed because mainly using existing stocks, relatively low risk of escalation, almost no chance of casualties on your own side) and the upsides are rather big (being seen to fight the good fight, bleeding the Russians).

Rebuilding Ukraine will be a completely different proposal. One or two years down the line, the war will be either done or down to page 8 in the newspapers and people are tired of that story. That is when the big payments will have to be made. Let's say you are a European politician at that time, you are facing a very shaky economy (most likely full blown recession), your voters are feeling the economic pain, you have had to freeze or even cut things like pensions, unemployment benefits, student support, healthcare benefits etc. and then you are asked to pay 5 billion orso in the Ukraine reconstruction fund. Did I mention that elections are next year and there is a populist party riding high in the polls with a message of "take care of our people first". Did I also mention that those 5 billion would go a long way to support pensioners in your own country?? pensioners who are known to come out to vote en mass?? Would it really be so bad to delay the payment?? Maybe wait a year or two until after the elections, after the economy picks up?? That's not an unreasonable call to make right? All of a sudden it's not so black and white anymore.

Not a message that many want to hear at the moment, but if we look at how our society and political systems actually work, it is not an unrealistic prediction I think.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Will,I can say in one paragraph,that Ukrainain are deluding themselves,if the American will rebuild Ukraine,after Build Back Better fail in the US,

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

So who in the west is agreeing to pay the 750 billion dollar bill to rebuild Ukraine?

Good question. Not me for sure (not that I matter).

Anyways, that's going to be a hard pill to swallow.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Russian claims they do not target civilians is just a bald faced lie.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

lol, seems like my post has been deleted because reasons??

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I can say in one paragraph,that Ukrainain are deluding themselves,if the American will rebuild Ukraine,after Build Back Better fail in the US,

I agree, the insentive structure simply isn't there for countries to go through with it on a sustained scale. Some funds will be made available, some projects will be succesfull no doubt (and will receive disproportionate media attention by some elements in the media), other projects will be plagued by massive embezzelment and fraud as Ukraine is massively corrupt (and this will receive disproportionate media attention by other elements in the media), but at the end of the day, it will fall short.

The real victims, as so often, will be the average Ukrainians.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

are UA forces started winning already?

just wanted be sure when they will crush russians/according Mr Zelensky/...

from my point of view it seems that more "tactical retreats" are going to happen in near future again...

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Eastman,

of course there will be more tactical retreats in the future.

Shortening the front line, better defense positions, and at the same time counterattacks, guerilla warfare, more military hardware, sabotage ..... those Russians won't be safe anywhere.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

none of those tactical retreats which lead to actually winning, just prolonging.

Who will continue to pay for all these actions to go on for years more?

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Who will continue to pay for all these actions to go on for years more?

Japan.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Mr Kipling "Ukraine needs to get serious in negotiating a stop to the pointless killing."

Seriously?! As if Ukraine is responsible for the pointless slaughter. By the way, what would you do if a vicious wolf invaded your home?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

of course there will be more tactical retreats in the future.

Shortening the front line, better defense positions, and at the same time counterattacks, guerilla warfare, more military hardware, sabotage ..... those Russians won't be safe anywhere.

A few problems with that interpretation.

if that is such an effective way to fight, why didn't they start out doing that? In fact, at the start of the war, when the Ukrainians had their biggest successes they achieved them by going toe to toe with the Russians and winning. The only ones shortening the lines then were the Russians and they had to do that to avoid total defeat.

The best prepared defensive positions were at the former line of contact, aka Luhansk. The Russians have breached these lines. The Ukrainians are falling back now to secondary positions. It is very unlikely that these lines are better prepared than the ones they had occupied since 2014.

It is rather at odds with what the Ukrainians themselves are saying they are doing. First they claimed the war was going to be decided in the battle of Luhansk. They seemed to have put in a lot of effort there. Now they are pushed back and the war is suddenly going to be decided in Donetsk.

counterattacks seem to be not going well. The Ukrainians apparently tried three weeks ago near Kherson, but made very little progress. This seems to be part of a pattern, where attackers need overwhelming firepower superiority to achieve their goals. The Ukrainians seem to have trouble concentrating overwhelming local superiority so far.

there is a limit to spin. At the moment the Russians seem to have the upperhand. This may change again in the future, but pretending that Ukrainian setbacks are actually a sign of strength as you seem to do is counterproductive.
-2 ( +2 / -4 )

if that is such an effective way to fight, why didn't they start out doing that?

Um, do you not understand how war works or something? Things change.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

The only outcome for the Russians after all their wanton destruction will be to inherit (temporarily) the dead wasteland they created in the Donbas. Their schadenfreude will be of short duration, however, and in a few years from now, their malicious gloating will be followed by bitter envy as they watch from their ramshackle Russian Federation a modern, thriving, Ukraine rising from the ashes of war.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Um, do you not understand how war works or something? Things change.

Exactly, things change, the Russians are fighting in a very different manner now than they did in Feb-March.

The Ukrainians handled the Russians very well in the Feb-Mar period.

They seem to be not able to stop the Russians now they have changed their approach. Unless the Ukrainians actually achieve some successes (and "shortening the line" is not a success, it7s something the Russians forced them to do) claims they are succesful are just wishful thinking.

In Feb Mar Russian supporters were claiming that every Russian setback was "part of the plan", and that was obvious nonsense. Likewise, claiming now that the Ukrainian war effort is going well, is equally deluded.

If you want to really support the Ukrainians the first thing you need to do is to clearly and objectively assess their situation. Giving into wishful thinking might make one feel good in the short term, but merely sets one up for disappointments down the road.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Wil

So who in the west is agreeing to pay the 750 billion dollar bill to rebuild Ukraine? It got really quiet after Zelensky demanded that.

Well, we can start with more than $350 billion in frozen reserves from Russia’s Central Bank. And after that start selling seized assets of Russian oligarchs. The Russians caused the damage, it only seems fair that they pay part of the price of rebuilding it.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Well, we can start with more than $350 billion in frozen reserves from Russia’s Central Bank. And after that start selling seized assets of Russian oligarchs. The Russians caused the damage, it only seems fair that they pay part of the price of rebuilding it.

Considering a huge chunk of those Russian assets are in Swiss and the Swiss are not playing ball on that (because it would ruin their status as a safe haven for money), I severely doubt thats going to happen.

Of course the Brits and Americans are free to do that with the Russian assets stored in their jurispredence, but they shouldn't be surprised to see a massive transfer of funds from UK/US banks to Swiss and other countries. This kind of thing only works if everyone plays ball, and thats very unlikely in this case.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Wil

Considering a huge chunk of those Russian assets are in Swiss and the Swiss are not playing ball on that (because it would ruin their status as a safe haven for money), I severely doubt thats going to happen.

None of the frozen reserves are in Switzerland. Europe, US, Canada and Japan account for $284 billion, which is a good start.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

None of the frozen reserves are in Switzerland. Europe, US, Canada and Japan account for $284 billion, which is a good start.

This statement is incorrect

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swiss-give-cool-reply-ukraine-call-seizing-russian-assets-2022-07-05/

But Switzerland, which in May reported 6.3 billion Swiss francs ($6.50 billion) of frozen Russian assets, has resisted an automatic handover of wealth. 

You are correct that most of these Russian assets are not in Swiss, but that is missing the forest for the trees. The moment the UK/US etc start giving these assets to Ukraine they basically signal that they will not respect ownership of assets stored in their banks (there is a huuuge difference between freezing an asset and giving said asset away).

The moment you give the Russian assets away, you immediately lose your status as a secure storage of wealth. Other countries (like Swiss) will not do this, and guess what capital will do? It will move. And when I say capital, I am not talking about Russian assets, I mean assets globally. Every country, corporation and billionaire will know their assets aren't safe and take them out. Say bye bye to all those Chinese, Saudi funds. Guess what?? You can say bye bye to a lot of European and American money as well, as at the end of the day, they care more about wether their money is safe, not where it is safe.

Simply put, giving frozen Russian assets to Ukraine is a good idea if you are Ukrainian, but a much more tricky proposition if you are the one holding the assets.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Wil

The moment you give the Russian assets away, you immediately lose your status as a secure storage of wealth. 

Yep. For rogue imperialist nations that start wars. Not a bad signal to send in my book.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Yep. For rogue imperialist nations that start wars. Not a bad signal to send in my book.

You are being very naive if you think that the Chinese, Saudis, other oil rich Gulf nations, Indians, etc. etc. Will look at this action and simply go: "Nope, that would never happen to us, absolutely no reason to start moving our assets out of harms way just in case."

You seem to think you are sending a signal to "rogue imperialist nations". The problem is you are sending a signal to every nation, corporation and wealthy individual and that signal is "any assets located in a bank in our country can be taken and given away at our discretion".

You are indeed giving a very strong signal and that signal is: "Get your money out of here while you still can"

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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