Ukraine offensive 'slower than desired', Zelenskyy says; Putin sees 'lull'

Zelensky's talking as tough as both Winston Churchill and Saddam Hussein did.

To get a clearer picture of which comparison would be the more apt, there's a DeSpiegel interview of what Zelensky's German trained tank crews who are manning those White Bloc supplied tanks are saying.

Doesn't matter if it s slow as long as it is successful. Terrorists need to be removed from Ukraine.

Quite underwhelming “offensive” for the billions of dollars it costs.

Quite underwhelming “offensive” for the billions of dollars it costs.

The majority of Ukrainian units haven't even been brought in. Just give it time, and stop whining.

NATO took the winds out of Zelensky sail,when they said they were gonna discuss Ukraine ascension to.Nato

no thanks. It started weeks ago and there is next to zero progress so I can comment my opinion that it’s underwhelming just as many experts have.

why am I required to give it time if I don’t want to?

It's young Ukrainian boys who are needlessly dying for the warmongers.

The only warmonger is Putin. Defending your country isn't warmongering. Pathetic.

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was quoted on Wednesday as saying progress in Ukraine's counteroffensive against Russian forces was "slower than desired", but that Kyiv would not be pressured into speeding it up

well unless we agree to pay them more or send F-16s then it’s implied maybe they can find some urgency.

after 100 billion in weapons and cash they are sandbagging the West.

Ooops, the Russians have mines and artillery, we didn't anticipate that.

The Russian army is generally incompetent. I guess they did finally figure out how to use their mines and artillery when given enough time.

What exactly does victory for Ukraine look like? Russia forces are competent enough with WW2 style engagement and of course has greater resources in men and equipment.

What exactly does victory for Ukraine look like?

Regaining lost territory and driving out the Russians from their lands?

Question I'm asking myself is if they indeed manage to take some or all back in this counteroffensive, wouldn't the Russians just launch another offensive of their own again?

Or did they agree this would be the last encounters and Ukraine can keep what they regain?

ian

What exactly does victory for Ukraine look like?

Regaining lost territory and driving out the Russians from their lands?

Question I'm asking myself is if they indeed manage to take some or all back in this counteroffensive, wouldn't the Russians just launch another offensive of their own again?

If Ukraine joins NATO, probably not.

If Ukraine joins NATO, probably not.

Alternately, if Ukraine is not able to join NATO and then goes and gets nukes for protection instead, also probably not.

The future of Ukraine can only be sure by becoming a NATO member.

Which country is going to supply nukes to an Ukraine engaged in fighting with Russia? I would be very surprised to learn that they currently have the capability to manufacture a weapon on their own. Certainly they have the know how but that is not enough.

Alternately, if Ukraine is not able to join NATO and then goes and gets nukes for protection instead

deanzaZZR - no need for any fancy delivery systems, dirty bombs will do. Just need something to give Russia pause so that they can reconsider whether or not this Ukraine adventure is worth their time. Russia won't attack NATO or nuclear-armed states.

Surely Ukraine can't join NATO during/right after this counteroffensive/while war is ongoing, even if there's a realistic chance they can be accepted later

Maybe once the USA sends over the extra 6 billion dollars they “found” after an “accounting error” then maybe things can proceed?

The hard part of the counter-offensive lies ahead -breaking through the well dug-in Russian positions without adequate air power. But if or when they do, the breach will be like the bursting of the Kakhovka Dam for the strategic belt of Russian defenses from Donetsk to Kherson.

The "experts" assured us that the Russians "had no answer" to advanced NATO tanks.

The overwhelming majority of the NATO tanks haven't yet been deployed, as the main assault units are still standing by. In the meantime, the Ukrainians have been in the probing phase, with small-scale engagements to push and pull the Russian units in different directions to pinpoint where the line's strengths and weaknesses lie.

Someone with a basic knowledge of battlefield strategy and tactics could have easily figure that out.

“Ukraine offensive 'slower than desired', Zelenskyy says”

So it’s intentional and he is lying?!

It’s just a stupid First World War , or call it a systemic and proxy conflict, and the results won’t be a win of one of the two sides, but both sides , then very much defeated or weakened respectively, stormed and eaten up by your lovely global South. I can personally only strongly and urgently recommend to end that war immediately, otherwise we will only see complete losers in the Northern hemisphere and so-called economically developed countries. Please begin to realize it, the hyenas will eat the whoever beaten loser and then a bit later with full stomach and regained power the weakened winner too. And believe me, you don’t want that!

The Russian army that rolled up the doorstep of Kiev and stopped was just a warning to Ukrainian Generals to back off while Wagner and Chechen special forces chewed up the Azov Battalion in Maruipol. Once it was clear that Mariupol would be cleared of the Azov Battalion, the Russian armed divisions were ordered back into Russia.

Said no one ever. Russia sure left a lot of hardware and dead Russians for their orderly retreat. They also faceplanted again near Kharkiv later in the year. Also I'm sure 1) most of the Azov defenders have been returned to Ukraine and 2) recruitment into Azov is through the roof now.

ian

Surely Ukraine can't join NATO during/right after this counteroffensive/while war is ongoing, even if there's a realistic chance they can be accepted later

Why not?

Thuban

However, they know that Russia is not intent on destroying them and Ukraine's existence is not under threat. Russia was never going to take Kiev and the Ukrainian government has always known that.

Umm, no, you are. misinformed. Putin still wants the whole of Ukraine and regime change to a puppet under his control.

The Russian army that rolled up the doorstep of Kiev and stopped was just a warning to Ukrainian Generals to back off while Wagner and Chechen special forces chewed up the Azov Battalion in Maruipol. 

No, it was a valid attempt to take control of Kyiv, but failed embarrassingly.

Kiev

Kyiv

The author of "Eat, Pray, Love" recently pulled her own book from publication because it was (according to her) offensive to Ukrainians.

Offensive to Ukrainians because -- get this -- the plot of the book was set in Russia in the early 1900s.

What's this got to do with the topic of this article?

Well, if the Ukrainians are so intellectually and emotionally fragile that they get offended by a book set in century-ago Russia -- which has nothing whatsoever with the current conflict -- then they're probably not tough or resilient enough to win this current conflict.

And thus, it's simply not worth it to fund or equip them anymore. A bad investment, shall we say.

-- which has nothing whatsoever with the current conflict --

*nothing whatsoever to do with the current conflict

Eastman

REALITY was that Russian troops left Kiev as both sides were close to make a peace deal.

Not true, because what killed the peace talks was the atrocities of Bucha.

The Russians failed to take Kyiv and were overstretched and had to pull back. This allowed the public to see what happened in Bucha, which scuttled the peace talks.

Ukraine says it has reclaimed eight villages so far in its long-awaited counter-offensive, its first substantial gains on the battlefield for seven months.

Take a good look at those " villages" one is a village only in name as it has long ceased to be a village and is actually only a single farm building and the rest was converted to farming long ago but on maps and administratively still registered as a village.

Not much of a grain

Kyiv is believed to have set aside 12 brigades of thousands of troops each, most of which have yet to join the fight.

Yes and a big part are marines all now moved to the now blown up dam region!

The west and many her claimed Moscow blew the dam but if you actually look today as the water dries up the region once a very wide body of water is now 80% dried up according to satellite photos and reports.

This now gives Ukraine the capability of crossing in this area without and major amphibious assault equipment and major logistics.

So blowing up the dam removed a major obstacle giving Ukraine a new place to attack in a less fortified area because Russia did need to fortify because the large reservoir made crossing with a large force improbable.

So it seems the claims Russia did it no long makes sense only Ukraine is going to benefit from it!

RichardPearceToday  07:14 am JST

Zelensky's talking as tough as both Winston Churchill and Saddam Hussein did.

To get a clearer picture of which comparison would be the more apt, there's a DeSpiegel interview of what Zelensky's German trained tank crews who are manning those White Bloc supplied tanks are saying.

Zelensky does seem to have shot off his mouth a bit prematurely. He shouldn't get too cocky about this.

> TaiwanIsNotChinaToday  07:21 am JST

Doesn't matter if it s slow as long as it is successful. Terrorists need to be removed from Ukraine.

Just do it. Expel the Russians however long it takes.

However, they know that Russia is not intent on destroying them and Ukraine's existence is not under threat. 

Maybe, maybe not. But if you are Ukraine, it's better to be safe than sorry. Better to have a gun and not need it than the vice versa. Ukraine will defend herself and will continue to make this invasion and any subsequent incursions into her territory as painful as possible for the invaders.

Finally Rich - I hear ya, brother. I can't believe that anyone would be sticking up for Russia's invasion, but here we are. These are the same kinds of people who cheered on the US invasion of Iraq in 2003. It's just that their team colors are white, blue, and red instead of red, white, and blue.

Washington offered $1.3 billion. Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said Kyiv was hoping for almost $7 billion from the event.

Now Zelensky is asking for Apache helicopters ! What next USA troops, pilots?

@UChosePoorly

Paternity changes us like nothing else.

Being a new father and celebrating every little progress of my son it's just unacceptable to have anyone supporting the gratuitous, unprovoked murder of a single human being.

Everyone here was the most special thing in the life of someone. I'm witnessing this. The total disrespect towards other people's sons is a crime against your own mother.

FR - yes, indeed. Congrats!

NATO/EU/US thought Russia was Iraq, or Afghanistan.

Antiquesaving

You did avoid the elephant in the room.

Why would Russia blow up the dam removing the best obstacles blocking Ukraine from attacking in that area?

Considering Russia are moving troops out of Kherson Oblast to support other areas, Russia doesn't think that Ukraine will be attacking from there.

Armies don't fight if they have zero chance. Russia doesn't even feel that Ukraine has zero chance, which is why they mined everything and blew their own dams, but you apparently know it for certain?

to all of "slava Ukraine" fans.UA have zero chance to win over Russia in this conflict or defeat Russia at all.no NATO weaponry,no EU money,no proUA media support can help them win.

Russia have will to defend itself and defend own national interests,have money,resources,weaponrty,human power.

get it right,start to think and stop this conflict now.talk around table about peace.this time seriously,no more Minsk style negotiation.

somebody send fax to Kiev that its about time to talk about truth.

2020hindsights

Today 11:45 am JST

Antiquesaving

> You did avoid the elephant in the room.

> Why would Russia blow up the dam removing the best obstacles blocking Ukraine from attacking in that area?

> Considering Russia are moving troops out of Kherson Oblast to support other areas, Russia doesn't think that Ukraine will be attacking from there

Where did you get that info.

UK DOD lastest release said the opposite.

fallaffel

Today 11:50 am JST

Armies don't fight if they have zero chance. Russia doesn't even feel that Ukraine has zero chance, which is why they mined everything and blew their own dams, but you apparently know it for certain?

Again same question no one here dares answer.

Why would Russia blow up the dam when the reservoir was a major barrier to the Ukrainians to launching an attack in that area?

Now the reservoir is 80% empty only small easily crossed streams and a single "river" remain.

Now the Ukrainian Marines with German river crossing equipment can attack through the nearly empty reservoir.

So explain why would Russia remove what was a the perfect defense line a Large body of water that only boats could cross and now tanks can roll across with little effort.

Got a logical explanation?

Antiquesaving

Considering Russia are moving troops out of Kherson Oblast to support other areas, Russia doesn't think that Ukraine will be attacking from there*

Where did you get that info.

UK DOD lastest release said the opposite.

Actually, no, they didn't:

The UK Ministry of Defense (MoD) assessed on June 19 that Russia has likely deployed large portions of the Dnipro Grouping of Forces from the east (left) bank of Kherson Oblast to the Zaporizhia and Bakhmut directions to respond to Ukrainian counteroffensive actions over the past 10 days.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-19-2023

The west has invested billions in Ukraine and Russia is winning.

The explosion at the dam sent seismic waves that were measured in Norway.

Norwegian Seismologists Detect Explosion Signals From Ukraine Dam

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/09/norwegian-seismologists-detect-explosion-signals-from-ukraine-dam-a81461

Sounds like Zelenskyy is being sober and realistic in his assessment. The Russian army has been busy creating a Maginot line to try and keep the lands they took last year.