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© 2023 AFPZelensky promises 'everything necesary' to defend Soledar from Russia
By Susannah WALDEN BAKHMUT, Ukraine©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
37 Comments
fallaffel
C'mon Wagner convicts, you must liberate the salt mine!!! You are the heroes in this war against....Neo-naziism, satanism, and some other bad stuff. Don't worry if most of you will die for this salt mine town with nice tunnels; all of your sins will be forgiven (wink, wink).
Poor souls.
Yrral
Republicans are getting ready to cut off funding,they are 300 miles from Kiev and Russia has been using aerial attack,same thing he told the Azov
Yrral
If it do not matter too Ukrainain,why are they sending people to a cold and painful death on both sides ,where injured soldiers lay helpless as they freeze to death with wind chill at zero today through Saturday
Haaa Nemui
I know this sounds bad, but really, wind chill at zero isn’t so terrible.
Nemo
But I thought that Wagner group said 2 days ago that they controlled the city?
They couldn’t have been lying, could they?
Nemo
(Russian soldiers hearing this) “Lucky bastards…”
And THATS what 32k Russians have died for in the last 2 months: the midget from Moscow’s tissue-thin skin.
Congrats, or something like that….
Yrral
Putin can play off Ukrainain insecurity, because they are at the mercy of others,Putin satisfied as long as Zelensky ship his gas,so he can destroy more of Ukrainain with NATO gas money
Haaa Nemui
So? A wind chill of zero is not bad. We had worse wind chill here where I am in Tokyo on Tuesday and the coldest temp with wind chill factored in only got down to about -2 Celsius. Cold yes but nothing unbearable.
Yrral
-2 is 4 degrees below freezing, that was 28 F degrees below freezing,your zero is not my zero
geronimo2006
Think I've figured out why the Kremlin long-term strategy and why it wants Soledar, aside from being a PR victory. Wagner will clear out Russia's prisons of criminals and use them as cannon fodder. Putin will fill up those prisons with political prisoners. After taking Soledar, it will send those prisoners to Soledar to work in the salt mines (like in the Soviet days). Then the empty prisons will be empty for the next batch of criminals. And so on...
Haaa Nemui
Wind chill is the effect on bare skin. Light covering can stop wind chill having major effect. Balaclavas, gloves, goggles. Actual air temp would be a better metric in most circumstances considering this.
Antiquesaving
Can we try being realistic.
We hear from Ukraine how they are always beating Russia, many here keep saying how Russia is getting slaughtered.
When the invasion began Ukraine had 6,500 tanks, about 7,000 combat armored vehicles they also received 2000 more military vehicles from the USA, more from others, all mostly gone and now Ukraine is desperately begging for more.
30 French AMX, 40 German Marder, 50 USA M2 Bradley and now 14 German leopard 2 tanks donated by Poland. More needed so now another $ 3 billion from the USA includes 50 more Bradley, 100 M213 personnel carriers, 55 MRAPs, 138 High mobility vehicles (HMMWVs), 18 M109 paladins,
Where are the 6,500 tanks the 7000 combat vehicles and the thousands of other combat vehicles donated previously?
The "we are winning" mantra VS. the ever increasing need for more new equipment, just doesn't add up.
UChosePoorly
AS - here is the best site I have found for keeping track of Ukrainian and Russian equipment losses in this war. The link below is to the Ukrainian page. You should be able to find some answers to your questions here:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html
Also, remember "we are winning" is a fairly subjective statement. Each person views the war differently. You obviously feel that Ukraine is not winning and that's ok. You would be saying this based on your subjective experience and nobody could contradict you right now.
Yrral
Antique,the US do have 6000 tanks and armor in Germany,they are not gonna part with,they can deliver tanks in a week,but their not
Antiquesaving
If the numbers on that site had any reality to them then Ukraine would still have a large number of tanks and Russia would be nearly depleted.
Prior to the war the USA said Russia had 10,000 tanks but this site say 16,000 tanks destroyed.
In February NATO revised its number to say Russia had between 14,000 and 17,000 tanks, again your site say 16,000 tanks destroyed.
Using the high 17,000 that only leaves Russia with 1,000 tanks.
Using the 6,500 tanks Ukraine had and your site's 3,000 destroyed or out of service, that leaves Ukraine with 3,500 tanks.
So if your site is correct, if NATO intelligence is correct, Ukraine has a 3 to 1 advantage in tanks over Russia, so why is Ukraine so desperate for more thanks?
See how facts work,
UChosePoorly
AS - may I see your source that says Ukraine started with 6,500 tanks? That seems high to me. Are you maybe including armored vehicles that aren't tanks?
Oryx only registers vehicles on their site with photographic proof. No photo, no listing.
If you have a preferred source that lists vehicles destroyed/damaged with photographic proof, then I am happy to take a look. I am always interested in new sources of info on the war.
UChosePoorly
Did you perhaps misplace a '0'? The site says ~1600 Russian tanks damaged/destroyed/abandoned/captured.
Russian losses.
Tanks (1621, of which destroyed: 953, damaged: 73, abandoned: 60, captured: 535)
Nemo
1,000 tanks. That is about how many front line tanks the Russians have left after losing over 3,000 in just 11 months.
That is why they are dragging museum pieces out of storage because junk is better than no junk at all (unless one is the crew of burnin junk, then I am guessing that one would prefer "no junk").
UA now has more tanks than it started the war with and their crews are better trained and operate in combined arms fashion making them more survivable in a defensive engagement, however....
See above objective evaluation of said Russian tanks. Better than "no junk" but NOT as good as Western Tanks. Thus the Marauders, the Bradleys and the French "light tanks" (which actually is a misnomer).
These are faster and more survivable than the BMP 80 but not as good as a Leopard, a Challenger or an Abrams would be.
Thus the requests to get better tanks.
That is how facts work.
The UA figures are more or less accurate. And the Russian figures (like their claims), not so much. ..
Antiquesaving
Yes my bad but then we still have the following problem:
As you can clearly seen something doesn't add up
Both from the same page.
And again before the invasion the USA and NATO said Russia had 10,000 tanks the 8,714 destroyed and 5,472 damaged plus 2725 captured would still mean Ukraine far out numbers Russia.
Again the numbers do not add up
UChosePoorly
Ah, I think I see the reason for your confusion - The 8k number represents all equipment cataloged on the site (tanks and all other vehicles)
Russia - 8714, of which: destroyed: 5472, damaged: 219, abandoned: 298, captured: 2725
I am pretty sure that just about nobody on the planet has more military hardware than Russia (even still) does, which is why Ukraine needs help just to keep up with them.
Antiquesaving
Well if you are right then Ukraine must be extremely incompetent fighters because they are about to or already have lost Soledar all the territory around it, are about to lose Bakhmut already most of the territory around it also.
They are begging for more equipment daily.
So either you are right or Ukrainian forces are even more incompetent than the Russians.
Nemo
Then there is always the circumstantial evidence that re-inforces narrative. The intercepted phone calls telling people back home that they are stepping over the bodies of dead russians to advance or that the hospitals are overflowing with wounded.
There is the purchase of 115 MM rounds from the DORKS because Front line tanks don't use that size anymore and thus it was not stored in quantity.
Or the fact that Russian artillary volume has dropped by about 75%. Which could mean many things: They are running out o shells. Their crappy guns burst their barrels. Or maybe they are saving up for later. None of those things are good for the boys on the ground.
My grandfather was an infantry officer in Europe in WWII. He said the Germans really got in trouble when they ran out of artillary shells. While the Germans had in his estimation at the end 2 rounds per gun per day, the Americans had a virtually unlimited supply and that was what really did the Germans in (in his opinion. Of course he was a bronze and silver star winner, and fought from D-Day to V-E Day, so what would he know about war, eh? But I digress....)
And we didn't even get into the magical disappearing Air Farse or the Black Sea "fleet".
Point is, there is a LOT of direct and indirect evidence that the Russians are in a very bad way and are desperate to change the narrative.
If only one wants to look.
Nemo
So incompetent that they are kicking the Russians asses up one side and down the other.
Who controls Kiev?
Who controls Odessa?
Where is the Black Sea "fleet"?
How long was this "Special Military Operation" supposed to last?
How long HAS it lasted?
The salt mines are not strategic goals. Their capture would not change the strategic map.
What goals HAVE been acheived so far? (Spoiler Alert: Zippo)
Has Ukraine been de-militarized, de-nazified, de-satanized (that one is my personal favorite) or de-salinated?
Has Ukrainian will been broken?
Is Western support in doubt? (Spoiler Alert: it is not)
These are all known (or knowable if one cares to look) facts.
Antiquesaving
Only one problem, Ukraine and many here consistently claim 15,000 plus tanks destroyed not other vehicles "Tanks" this has been repeated multiple times especially in Reuters articles, etc..
So are you now saying that Ukrainian numbers are not factual?
I will 100% admit not a single Russian number is close to factual their losses are far greater than they claim.
Are you going to now admit Ukranes loses far higher and claims of how many Russians killed and tanks destroyed are not factual?
UChosePoorly
AS - I haven't seen that 15k number myself, so I can't really comment on it.
fallaffel
Not Russia, the Wagner PMC, i.e. mostly convicts from Russian prisons. They are the "good guys" that Russians need to thank, for saving the salt mine from the "bad guys" (Ukrainians defending their country). The Russian armed forces didn't do anything.
Antiquesaving
Meaning you just invent it or repeat what someone else invented, right?
No evidence not even a single photo of these "museum" pieces you keep going on about.
On the contrary we are now seeing T-90 on the battlefield.
As for the
It actually increased for a few weeks now dropped, and why would that be? Well you don't shell where you'd troops are.
Russian troops have entered Soledar and the suburbs of Bakhmut so you reduce the firing and the areas you are hitting.
Antiquesaving
Oh come on, it has been repeated in at least a dozen articles right here on JT since last year and articles you claimed to have read and commented on.
UChosePoorly
AS - feel free to refresh my memory with a quote, link, cite, etc. I don't trust my own memory these days, much less someone else's, lol
ok1517
The short one in the Cremlin - still hoping to erase Ukraine.
Still, Bakhmut and Soledar hold!
Many other areas have been liberated from those RuSSian marauders.
The actual losses on both sides can only be estimates.
However, PUTAin's 3-day-limited-operation has ben dragging on for quite some time with little to no achievements, besides destroying infrastructure, killing, torturing, and raping civilians, abducting children .... guess I don't have to continue.
But - Ukraine prevails!
UChosePoorly
AS - well, you are the one asking me to comment on something. I would be happy to comment on it if I could see it. I don't recall anyone saying that Russia has lost 15,000 tanks in Ukraine, but that number is not realistic. Does that answer get you closer to where you want to be?
Antiquesaving
It is spelt Kremlin, just for next time.
You mean like Mariupol " we will never surrender" we are still holding " , then they surendered, you mean like that?
When was this?
Facts are Ukraine has been on the retreat and lost more territory, not retaken.
And that will continue until spring as Ukraine is building a NATO style force in 2 locations with the in position and to be delivered NATO equipment and planned spring offensive.
Untill then the best Ukraine can do is retreat as slowly as possible.
Antiquesaving
As far as I know 20% to 25% of Ukraine is under Russian control.
How much of Russia does Ukraine control?
Actually they have been part of Ukraine's supply chain as a hub for frontline supplies and safe storage for equipment, Bakhmut is a major hub for Ukrainian troop resupply.
You need better info.
Again you need better info, plenty of signs support is falling, but the election deal made by McCarthy in order to become speaker includes reduction on spending especially on funds for Ukraine.
Even MSM like NBC, ABC CNN are saying it.
UChosePoorly
Just imagine how much of Ukraine would be under Russian control if Ukraine hadn’t been fighting back. I would imagine probably closer to 100%.
RichardPearce
So, if you've followed the pattern of reportage closely, you know that most of Zelensky's western Ukrainians have retreated from the eastern Ukrainian town in the face of eastern Ukrainians determination to 'seize control' (or liberate) western Ukraine from the 2014 coup installed regime in Kiev.
It is worth noting that international law (UNSC resolution 2202) was supposed to guarantee that western Ukrainians would have control of the town (they'd have to fly the regime's flag, but the regime would have no part of governing or policing it) so all NATO accomplished in the past year was killing a lot of Ukrainians to delay the implementation of international law there.