Ukraine says latest Russian assault on Bakhmut beaten back

When the Russian Federation was formed I had great hope that finally it would become part of Europe and integrated.

I think President Vucic of Serbia knows the deal:

President Aleksandar Vucic dismissed territorial claims in Ukraine by Vladimir Putin and predicted the “worst is yet to come” for the conflict as both sides dig in. Vucic, who had dozens of meetings with Putin in recent years and took Russian lessons to be able to speak with him directly, said he hadn’t talked with his counterpart for “many months.”

“We, from the very beginning, said that we were not able and we could not support Russia’s invasion against Ukraine,” Vucic said at his residence in the Serbian capital on Tuesday. “For us, Crimea is Ukraine, Donbas is Ukraine — and it’ll remain so.”

https://www.serbianmonitor.com/en/vucicwe-are-grateful-to-moscow-but-donbas-belong-to-ukraine/

Ukroruina will prevail!!!

well they’ll definitely do better than Serbia did

The only silver lining out of this tragedy is that Western Europe has finally lifted the veil from its eyes and now sees Putin for what he is and the threat that Russia represents to Western Democracy.

Ukroruina will prevail!!!

irony off

Chris Parry, 28, and Andrew Bagshaw, 47, were undertaking voluntary work in Soledar, in the Donetsk region of Ukraine, when their vehicle was reportedly hit by a shell.

Their bodies were returned to Ukraine authorities as part of a wider exchange, in which Kyiv got 116 prisoners and Russia 63.

If you had only spent the time you took to post to read a bit further instead, you would have noted the above.

But I do give you your main point that Putin was ok with Ukraine as a puppet, similar to Belarus.

There was no coup. Yanukovych was a crook who lost the confidence of the people when he renegged on his promises, resulting in the Maidan protests

I understand your sympathy for Ukraine but if you don't have the intellectual honesty to even admit that there was a coup (call it a justified coup if you must), then it's impossible to have a mature conversation.

The he stepped down and fled like a traitor to Russia, where I think he still lives. He was a Russian asset.

Yanukovich did not step down and nothing in the Ukrainian constitution allows for a president to be stripped of his office if he makes a sudden unannounced overseas trip. These well-worn talking points are just grasping at straws to justify something that was clearly an illegal power grab that destabalised the entire region.

Times change, older population had much fonder feelings for Russia, but the young, not so much.

M3M3M3 - There was no coup. Yanukovych was a crook who lost the confidence of the people when he renegged on his promises, resulting in the Maidan protests. The he stepped down and fled like a traitor to Russia, where I think he still lives. He was a Russian asset.

You will not find this in Russian-sympathizing reports but the Russians created and funded separatists movements amongst the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces. The reason they did that? Because they don't think Ukraine is a real country and want to incorporate it into the RF.

Not prior to 2014. Russia's interests have always been served well by leaving a large Russian-sympathetic population in Ukraine which could democratically block any attempt to align Ukraine with the west. This is why the opposition decided to seize power in a coup rather than face another election.

I wonder if the same logic applies to Russia oblasts. Could people in a said Oblast vote to leave Russia and join the US or Ukraine? I have a feeling you, and the Russian government, would be singing a very different tune in that case.

Russia thinks it has discovered a cheat code to eventually take over the whole world:

Create tensions in bordering area.

Fund separatist movements.

Separatist movement calls Russia for help.

Russia intervenes. Resulting war causes population to flee.

With Russia in control, 'join Russia' easily wins in the sham referenda

you might want to share that with the Russian commanders who are sending their new recruits out on suicidal banzai charges.

True... sign up for a contract with Wagner and it's sign up for never ending extensions on the contract. Want to leave? Leave in smoke or run across a border and seek asylum.

Nothing is as simple as you think. You will not find this in mainstream media reports but the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces voted in referendums that they wanted autonomy from Ukraine. The reason they did that? Because “their own” Ukrainian government had bombed them for years and years on end.

I wonder if the same logic applies to Russia oblasts. Could people in a said Oblast vote to leave Russia and join the US or Ukraine? I have a feeling you, and the Russian government, would be singing a very different tune in that case.

the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces voted in referendums that they wanted autonomy from Ukraine

False !

Because “their own” Ukrainian government had bombed them for years and years on end.

false !

any chance of you coming up with some truths ?

just you saying it, doesn’t make it so (true)

suicide is not a strategy.

you might want to share that with the Russian commanders who are sending their new recruits out on suicidal banzai charges.

Most countries, including Russia, have resisted separatist breakaway regions. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014.

You will not find this in mainstream media reports but the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces voted in referendums that they wanted autonomy from Ukraine.

Garbage. Most Ukrainians fled the occupied areas for safety, leaving only the elderly and the separatists plus those trucked in from Russia by the occupying forces. Ukraine did not hold any referendum in Eastern Ukraine, and any referendums held by occupying forces or separatists is illegal and not binding.

Yes some people wanted to be Russian but didnt want to move there. The majority did not want to be Russian but when the separatists were armed by Russia, they forced the loyal citizens to evacuate to other parts of Ukraine. Naturally Ukraine fought to retain its territorial integrity from treasonous forces armed by Russia and supplemented by "volunteer" Russian military units, as any nation would do.

JaneM2 - This is not as simple as you think. You will not find this in Russian-sympathizing reports but the Russians created and funded separatists movements amongst the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces. The reason they did that? Because they don't think Ukraine is a real country and want to incorporate it into the RF.

JaneM2

I pity the Russians that were so simple minded, and brainwashed to think invading a sovereign nation was acceptable…

Nothing is as simple as you think. You will not find this in mainstream media reports but the population of those East-Ukrainian provinces voted in referendums that they wanted autonomy from Ukraine.

These sham referendums were extensively reported in mainstream media.

The reason they did that?

They were forced to.

Because “their own” Ukrainian government had bombed them for years and years on end.

No they haven't.

Wick's pencil - You thought the Ukrainians were just going to surrender to Russia. Russia could always stop killing them and go home.

It is not a NATO war and that is not even close.

Some of the NATO countries are helping Ukraine defend itself against the Putin invader. The weapons provided are from some of the member countries. Too easy to call it a NATO proxy war.

Because of NATO Putin is fearful of attacking any of the member countries.

Yes, we all know that the Ukrainian people, and Ukraine itself, are being sacrificed for NATO's proxy war against Russia

Nonsense. Ukraine wants to fight for their land and country. The US is only helping them do so by supplying them with arms.

Wick's pencil - thankfully Ukraine has a lot of support, so it's not just them alone. 1-on-1?

Yes, we all know that the Ukrainian people, and Ukraine itself, are being sacrificed for NATO's proxy war against Russia.

U,did you know it against the law ,too represent the interest of a foreign nations , without registering with the US

Laws of Probability don't apply here, but I agree that hope is not a strategy, which is why we are taking action.

U,hope is not a recipe for any success,when the laws of probability are in play

Let's not pull stats out of thin air, ok? Americans of all stripes have a strong sense of right and wrong, and abhor bullying. If you feel that strongly about it, maybe you could organize a demonstration in the US against support for Ukraine? Let us know how it turns out.

RuSSians will not be able to win!

They are the aggressors, Ukrainians defending their freedom.

So, guess who got more strength - those who fight for their homeland or those fighting for a little dictator, maybe receiving some frozen fish or firewood for their "service", but probably just a black body bag!

Ukraine prevails!

U,their is not support for Ukrainain in minority community in America,it probably 1 percent, Ukraine is not a state or territorial of the US,they should not act if it is

Putin is kind of like King Edward I "Longshanks" in the movie Braveheart. King Edward I threw the Irish soldiers into the battle first because they cost him nothing, and now Putin is doing the same thing with the Wagner Group in throwing released convicts at the Ukrainians like cannon fodder and then using Russian paratroopers on the flanks to close in for the kill. Putin's way of thinking is the same as Edward's about the Irish in that the Russian prisoners cost him nothing.

The desalination operation is going about as will for the Russians as their de-satanization operations.

Wick's pencil - thankfully Ukraine has a lot of support, so it's not just them alone. 1-on-1? Sure, Ukraine would have had a lot tougher time, given the differences in size, but Ukraine has a posse.

What kind of security and land do you think Ukraine should trade for peace in our time?

Anyone who is predicting the imminent demise of Ukrainian resistance or the ending of support for Ukraine by its allies is reciting Russian talking points and hoping they come to fruition. Not going to happen.

Anyone who is saying the Ukrainians can defeat the Russians is simply reciting US neocon talking points. Not going to happen.

People have been saying the support would be finished in six months for a long time now. Certainly more than six months ago. That and the Ukrainians wouldn’t last the winter. Nobody is talking about the winter anymore but they’re still talking about six months and support ends. Never reduces from six months though.

Why would there be mass demonstrations in the US? The government is doing what we want. Maybe the anti-Ukraine faction could demonstrate, but there aren't really that many who strongly oppose support for Ukraine in the US.

U, Ukrainain are not a priority on the street of America,their are no mass demonstration of support of Ukraine , American have moved on as usual,it not a priority in Ukraine,but their continue corrupt policies,the Ukrainlan are in denial,, America political leaders will never let Ukraine join NATO

Anyone who is predicting the imminent demise of Ukrainian resistance or the ending of support for Ukraine by its allies is reciting Russian talking points and hoping they come to fruition. Not going to happen.

Ukraine is saying this so that their less trained soldiers continue to fight, to give their better trained soldiers a chance to retreat. This battle is a lost cause.

U,what position of strength the US has already gave up any hope of an Ukrainain victory, Ukrainain have 6 month at the most , before the plug is pulled, Ukrainain official are not in the right frame of mind,the US policy is a polar opposite,all Intel,and National security official have came to the conclusion,it time to negotiate

U,the US have sense as a lost cause,and say negotiation are the only answer

What kind of unconventional weapons would you suggest we use, Rodney?

Time for unconventional weapons. Finish this proxy war.

Their bodies were returned to Ukraine authorities as part of a wider exchange, in which Kyiv got 116 prisoners 

Welcome home, heroes!

@bronco  fate of the poor guys that have unfortunately lost the battle.

I pity the Russians that were so simple minded, and brainwashed to think invading a sovereign nation was acceptable, but not the Wagner cannon fodder who thought risking their lives was better than staying in prison. If any of the 'poor' Russian combatants killed during the invasion had been involved in torturing or raping innocent civilians then 'fate' accomplished.