A site of residential buildings destroyed by a Russian missile attack in Vyshhorod
Local residents stand near their building destroyed by a Russian missile attack, as Russia's attack on Ukraine continues, in the town of Vyshhorod, near Kyiv, Ukraine November 24, 2022. REUTERS/Gleb Garanich Photo: Reuters/GLEB GARANICH
world

Ukraine struggles to restore power

44 Comments
By Pavel Polityuk and Tom Balmforth

Much of Ukraine on Thursday remained without heat or power after the most devastating Russian air strikes on its energy grid so far, and in Kyiv residents were warned to brace for further attacks and stock up on water, food and warm clothing.

Ukrenergo, which oversees Ukraine's national power grid, said 50 percent of demand in Ukraine was not being met as of 7 p.m. Kyiv time after key energy facilities were hit and it could not say when everything would be fully restored.

In the capital Kyiv, a city of three million, 60 percent of residents were without power amid temperatures well below freezing, mayor Vitaly Klitschko said.

"We understand that missile strikes like this could happen again. We have to be ready for any developments," he added, according to Kyiv city council.

Ukrenergo said power would first be reconnected to sites of critical infrastructure -- the gas distribution network, water supply networks, sewage systems and hospitals. Domestic consumers would be gradually reconnected, it added.

Viewed from space, Ukraine has become a dark patch on the globe at night, satellite images released by NASA showed, following repeated attacks by Russian missiles in recent weeks.

Ukrainian authorities have set up "invincibility centers", sometimes in tents, where people can charge phones, warm up and get hot drinks.

"It is the second day we are without power and food. More than 60 children are waiting for food and we cannot prepare anything unless power gets fixed," said a woman at one such centre in Kyiv.

Russia's latest missile barrage killed 10 people and shut down all of Ukraine's nuclear power plants for the first time in 40 years.

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in an interview with the Financial Times that this week's strike had created a situation not seen for 80 or 90 years - "a country on the European continent where there was totally no light."

By early evening, officials said a reactor at one nuclear plant, Khmelnytskyi, had been reconnected to the grid.

The vast Zaporizhzhia plant in Russian-held territory was reconnected on Thursday, Ukrainian nuclear power company Energoatom said.

Since early October, Russia has attacked energy targets across Ukraine about once a week, each time firing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of missiles to destroy the power grid.

Moscow acknowledges attacking basic infrastructure, saying its aim is to reduce Ukraine's ability to fight and push it to negotiate. Kyiv says such attacks are clearly intended to harm civilians, making them a war crime.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said it was Kyiv's fault Ukrainians were suffering because it refused to yield to Moscow's demands, which he did not spell out. Ukraine says it will only stop fighting when all Russian forces have left.

Nuclear officials say interruptions in power can disrupt cooling systems and cause an atomic disaster.

"There is a real danger of a nuclear and radiation catastrophe being caused by firing on the entire territory of Ukraine with Russian cruise and ballistic missiles," Petro Kotin, head of Ukraine's nuclear operator Energoatom said.

"Russia must answer for this shameful crime."

THOUSANDS OF MISSING

More than 15,000 people have gone missing during the war in Ukraine, an official at The Hague-based International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP) said on Thursday.

It opened an office in Kyiv in July to help Ukraine document and track down missing people. The ICMP's programme director for Europe, Matthew Holliday, said it was unclear how many people had been forcibly transferred, were being held in detention in Russia, were alive and separated from their family members, or had died and had been buried in makeshift graves.

In Kyiv members of the Kyiv National Academic Operetta Theater tearfully bid farewell to 26-year-old ballet dancer Vadym Khlupianets who was killed fighting Russian troops in eastern Ukraine.

Moscow has shifted to the tactic of striking Ukraine's infrastructure even as Kyiv has inflicted battlefield defeats on Russian forces since September. Russia has also declared the annexation of land it occupies and called up hundreds of thousands of reservists.

The war's first winter will now test whether Ukraine can press on with its campaign to recapture territory, or whether Russia's commanders can keep their invasion forces supplied and find a way to halt Kyiv's momentum.

Having retreated, Russia has a far shorter line to defend to hold on to seized lands, with more than a third of the front now blocked off by the Dnipro River.

"Ukraine will slowly grow in capabilities, but a continued maneuver east of the Dnipro River and into Russian-occupied Donbas will prove to be much tougher fights," tweeted Mark Hertling, a former commander of U.S. ground forces in Europe.

"Ukrainian morale will be tested with continued Russian attacks against civilian infrastructure ... but Ukraine will persevere."

Russia has pursued an offensive of its own along the front line west of the city of Donetsk, held by Moscow's proxies since 2014. Ukraine said Russian forces tried again to advance on their main targets, Bakhmut and Avdiivka, with only limited success.

Further south, Russian forces were digging in on the eastern bank of the Dnipro, shelling areas across it including the city of Kherson, recaptured by Ukrainian forces this month.

Reuters could not immediately verify the battlefield accounts.

Moscow says it is carrying out a "special military operation" to protect Russian speakers in what Putin calls an artificial state carved from Russia. Ukraine and the West call the invasion an unprovoked war of aggression.

© Thomson Reuters 2022.

©2022 GPlusMedia Inc.


44 Comments

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Having retreated, Russia has a far shorter line to defend to hold on to seized lands, with more than a third of the front now blocked off by the Dnipro River.

The strategy behind Russia's tactical withdrawal is now becoming apparent.

Zelensky's forces are held at bay by a river that's suicidal to cross and Russian forces from Kherson can be redirected to strategic strongholds in Donetsk where Zelensky's hardcore Azov Battalions are essentially surrounded.

Once the nuts are cracked in Dontesk, the emptied ghost towns of Kherson and Odessa can be retaken without worrying about civilian casualties.

A small corner of Ukraine is being allowed to maintain power, the Ukrainian government has no choice but to evacuate all citizens there.

When will Russia run out of missiles, the media claimed it had already happened in March?

-13 ( +11 / -24 )

Good morning, Bronco. Thanks for your daily update. I'm sure that everybody on this forum appreciates this.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Putin has created cruel suffering for tens of millions of people and one day soon needs to be held to account. More than 4,000 missiles have been fired hitting civilian targets. Schools, apartments, hospitals, and power infrastructure.

13 ( +21 / -8 )

I read somewhere that NATO anti missile defenses were knocking down all the missiles fired by Russia, except the ones that land in Poland .... LOL

Knocking out the power grid is not a war crime. Ukraine's railway system is electric, they move munitions by rail. Sadly for the ordinary people in Ukraine they lose their heat and light. The US did this in Iraq 1 and 2.... Wasn't a war crime then and isn't one now.

-16 ( +10 / -26 )

Mr Kipling

I read somewhere that NATO anti missile defenses were knocking down all the missiles fired by Russia, except the ones that land in Poland .... LOL

Yeah, I am sure the Ukrainian air defenses are getting some of them, but personally I find the percentages quoted (60%) rather suspect. It doesn't really jive with the damage we can see being inflicted.

Knocking out the power grid is not a war crime.

An unpopular opinion, but indeed correct. It is a strategy NATO itself employed against Serbia in the 90's. Not only that, it was succesful, unlike the campaign to bomb the Serbian military in the field.

Ukraine's railway system is electric, they move munitions by rail. Sadly for the ordinary people in Ukraine they lose their heat and light. The US did this in Iraq 1 and 2.... Wasn't a war crime then and isn't one now.

This is what all the "the Russians are trying to break Ukrainian will but they will fail" crowd are missing. This isn't a campaign aiming to terrorize the Ukrainians into submission. This is a campaign to weaken Ukrains civilian infrastructure to such a degree that the resources available to succesfully wage a campaign against the Russians is severely weakened.

I think this is related to the fact that we in the West have over the last 70 years fought only wars of choice. We ended the wars when we lost interest/will etc. Likewise we tried to break our opponents will. As such we project our experiences on this situation and assume that the Russians are trying to break Ukrainian will.

The Russians more likely have a very different model in mind: WW2. The Germans were defeated not because they lost the will to fight, they fought savagely until the last day, but rather because they lost the ability to produce enough war materiel to keep going.

Most people in the West at a very deep level can't imagine this idea, because it hasn't happened to us for so long.

To rephrase: It is not about destroying Ukrainian will to resist, rather destroying Ukrainian capability to restsis. Interesting will be to see what the Russians will target after they completely crippled the Ukrainian grid (which as I mentioned in the past, is inevitable).

Obviously some campaign against the grid will keep going to prevent it from being repaired, but resources will be free to target other critical infrastructure elements. My bet would be railways and bridges. This would severely limit Ukrainian strategic mobility as well as logistical capabilities.

And to all the people who are inevidently going to downvote this post: just because I point these things out, doesn't mean I approve of them.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

Winter is coming and the chance that Russia can supply proper equipment to their troops when even in autumn/fall is massive failure. Ukrainian might be without power but Russian troops are without a roof or waterproof sleeping bag. Unless they buy one on line and hope it’s not stolen. The Ukrainian troops are well supplied, it’s just they might get slightly depressed after killing so many Russians, that’s a concern.

1 ( +12 / -11 )

Until Putin's invasion of Ukraine, the west assumed his Russian military would be a strong opponent but the shocking fact is their failure on the battlefield.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

The war's first winter will now test whether Ukraine can press on with its campaign to recapture territory, or whether Russia's commanders can keep their invasion forces supplied and find a way to halt Kyiv's momentum.

Having retreated, Russia has a far shorter line to defend to hold on to seized lands, with more than a third of the front now blocked off by the Dnipro River.

This is an important point that is being missed in the jubelations about the Russian retreat from Kherson: it was a succesful tactical retreat (as in with limited Russian casualties and limited loss of equipment). This kind of operation is pretty difficult to pull of actually (retreating under combat conditions, crossing a bottleneck position (bridge and then crossing ones own lines). The fact that the Russians succeeded is an indication that the forces retreating from Kherson are pretty combat capable. They have a chance to rest now and will be available to be deployed somewhere else.

As I mentioned two weeks ago, a succesful tactical retreat is usually not good news for the other side, and I think this is one of those cases. Unlike the retreat from Kharkiv, which was a disaster for the Russians, the retreat from Kherson in my opinion is a long term win for them. A few factures come together now that will make further advances more challenging for the Ukrainians:

Shorter frontline to defend, especially with a third covered by a river.

more Russian troops available due to mobilization, meaning less weak point in the line to exploit for the ukrainians (and before people start yelling "cannon fodder", the Russian conscripts will learn and improve over time, just like the Ukrainians did).

better logistical lines for the Russian army which always helps

Russian troops for the first time have unified command and a long term strategy (stabilize front, pounding Ukraines infrastructure to rubble, wait and watch enemy capabilities deminish) which might actually work.

Combine these elements and you can see that medium to long term things are not as rosy for the Ukrainians as many people like to believe.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

CrickyToday 09:18 am JST

Winter is coming and the chance that Russia can supply proper equipment to their troops when even in autumn/fall is massive failure. Ukrainian might be without power but Russian troops are without a roof or waterproof sleeping bag. Unless they buy one on line and hope it’s not stolen. The Ukrainian troops are well supplied, it’s just they might get slightly depressed after killing so many Russians, that’s a concern.

Thats not all.They are also without chips for their drones so they need to steal washing machines from UA homes,that they are running out of stock or rockets,dont have enough of bullets and artillery.Putin have cancer.hmmm.what else I have forgotten?yes UA heroi are winning everywhere.

did you ever heard about-irony?

-8 ( +8 / -16 )

Where is all this aid going,not like the average Ukrainain have a normal life,like go to the store and shop and spend money on mundane thing ,the government is setting up shell companies for the money to be siphon off by corruption,it not like the Ukrainain government is buying thing from other countries, expecting a handout

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

When will Russia run out of missiles, the media claimed it had already happened in March?

When will Russia defeat Ukraine ?

Putin claimed it would take just a few days.

war in UA will end when Zelensky will go away.

no, the war will end when Putin is either killed or dethroned. He may even end up being tried as a war criminal like your ex president slobodan.

The US did this in Iraq 1 and 2.... Wasn't a war crime then and isn't one now.

whataboutism - the poor man’s argument

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Wil

Could not agree with your more.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

The Russians had better hope that their gambit to kill as many civilians as possible and force a conclusion works because if it doesn't, come the spring time.....

A well-armed, better trained UA is going to have payback on it's mind.

And the winter is going to do nothing to help the Russians re-train (which would assume they were trained in the first place) or re-arm (apart from pulling some more 60 year old tanks off the museum floor).

At some point, the real solution to Russians blowing up civilian infrastructure is to hold Russian cities at equal risk. When the Russians have to worry about their own territory, I predict that domestic pressure will cause them to re-evaluate their choices as if by magic.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

The US did this in Iraq 1 and 2.... Wasn't a war crime then and isn't one now.

> whataboutism - the poor man’s argument

Not whataboutism it hypocrisy of the west, if you can do it then you cannot say your opponent can't.

I'd Saudi can without the USA and UK cutting off weapons then it means it is clearly acceptable.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

Not whataboutism it hypocrisy of the west, if you can do it then you cannot say your opponent can't.

I'd Saudi can without the USA and UK cutting off weapons then it means it is clearly acceptable.

Why should you care beyond support for your argument? 2 wrongs don't make a right.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Nemo

The Russians had better hope that their gambit to kill as many civilians as possible and force a conclusion works because if it doesn't, come the spring time.....

As I mentioned above, "killing as many civilians as possible" is not their gambit. That's a really shallow and quit frankly badly thought out take on what is happening.

A well-armed, better trained UA is going to have payback on it's mind.

Having payback on the mind and having the capability to inflict said payback are two separate things all together. Come spring the Ukrainian army will still be a motley collection of all sorts of equipment facing many of the same problems it has now. Fighting spirit and skill are there, but that does very little when you can't maintain your equipment well.

And the winter is going to do nothing to help the Russians re-train (which would assume they were trained in the first place) or re-arm (apart from pulling some more 60 year old tanks off the museum floor).

We will have to wait and see on that. The idea that the Russian army is incapable of learning lessons and adapting its strategies and tractics is not what can be observed in the field. They are adapting and trying new things all the time, some work, many fail. Assuming the Russian mobilization isn't going to massively impact the battlefield though is pretty dangerous (as underestimating the enemy always is) and not doing the Ukrainians any good.

At some point, the real solution to Russians blowing up civilian infrastructure is to hold Russian cities at equal risk. When the Russians have to worry about their own territory, I predict that domestic pressure will cause them to re-evaluate their choices as if by magic.

Some of the hard realities is that powerful countries more often than not get away with heinous acts. The US messed up the Middle East massively over the last 70 years and paid little to no price. Why? Becaue the risks and costs of holding countries like the US, Russia and China are simply too large. That is the world we live in and I don't like it, but I accept this reality.

So, no, we should absolutely not "put Russian cities at risk" because quit frankly, I don't want this war to escalate any further and treaten the lives of myself and my loved ones.

If you are willing to put your live on the line for Ukraine, good for you, the Ukrainians accept foreign volunteers, go sign up. Just don't expect me to go along for the trip. It is very easy to sit behind your laptop and yell for escalation, much less easy to actually put your own skin in the game.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

NATO warmonger posters 

NATO did not start this war but thanks to Russia, NATO is no preparing for one. NATO forces will be more mobilized towards the Russian borders than ever before.

Russia started this war and now winter is coming they run and hide behind their defenses and pound the Ukrainian infrastructure, not for any tactical gains beyond creating misery for the Ukrainian people.

We can all see that this is a ploy by Russia to slow down the progress made by Ukraine and I am fairly certain that the Russian troops sitting in their little concrete pillboxes this winter, will be praying that the missiles do their job too.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

In other words, you are using the accusation of "bad faith" trying to silence opinions you don't like.

or it is another case of whataboutism to distract from the current argument.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

AlternativeOpinion

or it is another case of whataboutism to distract from the current argument.

No, but thanks for sharing your ideas.It is good to see you try.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Putin has been unable to defeat Ukraine's military on the battlefield and has no other option than to terrorize the citizens in the hope that they will be frozen into surrendering. His cowardly supporters here have long since learned to excuse his escalating butchery.

Another savage and predictable war crime to add to his list. As long as people and nations with a moral backbone continue to support Ukraine then this is a war that Putin cannot win.

At some point this shabby land grab won't be worth the thousands of dead Russian boys.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

CNN was just glorifying Ukrainian civilians who were in the streets at night murdering drunk Russian soldiers.

if this is the case, wouldn’t it lead to Russians killing civilians in return? Was this really a super great idea from civilians?

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

Here is the thing, you do not decide what other people care about, nor which wars they mention.

If that is not an attempt at distraction I don't know what is.

or it is another case of whataboutism to distract from the current argument.

No, but thanks for sharing your ideas.It is good to see you try.

This article is about "Ukrainian civilians" suffering after "Russian Missiles" targeted "Ukrainian infrastructure" for what purpose? some military gains? or hopefully make the civilians suffer enough to have an effect on the war effort by Ukraine?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

CNN was just glorifying Ukrainian civilians who were in the streets at night murdering drunk Russian soldiers.

Killing soldiers in a war zone? That's terrible. What's next?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

AlternativeOpinion

This article is about "Ukrainian civilians" suffering after "Russian Missiles" targeted "Ukrainian infrastructure" for what purpose? some military gains? or hopefully make the civilians suffer enough to have an effect on the war effort by Ukraine?

I have explained my thinking on this in three rather lengthy posts above. Feel free to read them (I didn't use any difficult words) and feel free to respond.

If that is not an attempt at distraction I don't know what is.

You are probably familiar with the feeling by now.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

CNN was just glorifying Ukrainian civilians who were in the streets at night murdering drunk Russian soldiers.

Killing soldiers in a war zone? That's terrible. What's next?

hilarious !

if this is the case, wouldn’t it lead to Russians killing civilians in return?

they’ve been doing that since day 1

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Cards fan

The problem of course is that civilians being non combattants are supposed to be just that, not taking part in combat. Once they start killing they are no longer non combatants. Having fought several insurgencies over the past 20 years the US is well known to this conundrum. Guantano Bay is full if people like this.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't it US policy that simply being in the vicinity of armed men was reason enough to consider them combattants and then drone them?

Following this established precendent, wouldn't it be ok for the Russian army to target said civilians, in self defence?

Persionally I don't think this would be morally correct, but you can see where the lines get blurred, and more importantly, where you give the Russians a lovely angle to play.

It is counterproductive for the Ukraiian side, so only for that reason you should disapprove, simply because it is a dumb move that will get many innocent Ukrainians killed.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

NATO warmonger posters 

we are supporting a country that has been invaded & are trying to defend themselves

you are supporting a regime who has attacked & invaded a country, & is also committing war crimes. Not to mention threatening to use nuclear weapons.

I think we all know who the real war mongers are.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

The problem of course is that civilians being non combattants are supposed to be just that, not taking part in combat. 

I don't care. Resistance movements happen in literally every war. You'd be hard-pressed to criticize the French-resistance for killing or sabotaging Germany military units there, and it's just the same for Russian occupiers.

Following this established precendent, wouldn't it be ok for the Russian army to target said civilians, in self defence?

lol No. That doesn't justify committing war crimes against civilians. Not how that works.

Persionally I don't think this would be morally correct, but you can see where the lines get blurred, and more importantly, where you give the Russians a lovely angle to play.

Except they're already raping, pillaging, and killing in Ukraine. They don't need a "lovely angle" to be nasty, awful war criminals- they already are.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Following this established precendent, wouldn't it be ok for the Russian army to target said civilians, in self defence?

the Russian army invades a country, starts murdering & raping their women & children, & you say that it’s ok because it’s in self defence !?

thats messed up dude.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

tooheysnew

the Russian army invades a country, starts murdering & raping their women & children, & you say that it’s ok because it’s in self defence !?

thats messed up dude.

That seemed to be the legallogic behind the US military whenever they killed civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Now, I am not saying that I agree with the logic, but there is something called precedent in law. As the US applied this argument, the Russians can use it as well.

Once again, not saying I agree with this argument, just pointing out how things work in the real world.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Killing soldiers in a war zone?

You left out “civilians”- the most important word.

Otherwise known as non combatants engaging in….combat.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Targeting Power and water or civilian infrastructure is targeting defenseless people in the worst way possible in a land where the brutal winter cold will kill indiscriminately and the most vulnerable are the elderly, sick and the children. The world continues to put up with this outrage of Russian brutality against a peaceful nation out of fear of a nuclear confrontation. The west must provide the equipment and armaments Ukraine needs to respond to this barbarous conduct and allow Ukraine to target inside Russia knocking out their power and water and to hit military targets, munitions and oil supplies and industries making war supplies. This needs to be done immediately. If Russia threatens, the west can simply call the bluff, and advise Russia the attacks will be stopped inside Russia when Russia stops attacking civilian power supply, and hospitals in Ukraine. This one sided attacking is keeping one hand tied behind its back for Ukraine making it so much more difficult for Ukraine to fight successful and also means more aid is needed from Ukraine's supporters.

YrralToday 09:33 am JST

Where is all this aid going,not like the average Ukrainain have a normal life,like go to the store and shop and spend money on mundane thing ,the government is setting up shell companies for the money to be siphon off by corruption,it not like the Ukrainain government is buying thing from other countries, expecting a handout

Sorry but once again Larry seems content to post fantasy pro Russian propaganda that is complete nonsense. Not one shred of proof for his fantasy.

Ukraine daily fights for it's very survival and some posters wish to sow malicious lies in an attempt to discredit the victims so that support falls away and Russia is left to wipe out Ukraine and steal all lands and everything and everyone in them.

It is the corruption in the Russian government that has been behind this insurgency since 2014 and the invasion in 2022. Hundreds of thousands dead, many more injured and millions displaced for Russian corruption and greed. When will Larry post facts and not fantasy? My guess is no time soon and certainly not about Russia's brutal invasion.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

You left out “civilians”- the most important word.

I don't care. This is what happens when you launch an imperialist invasion and attempt take that which doesn't belong to you. You seem to think Ukrainians should be able to resist their occupiers. Odd.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said it was Kyiv's fault Ukrainians were suffering because it refused to yield to Moscow's demands, which he did not spell out. Ukraine says it will only stop fighting when all Russian forces have left.

Can Russia justify its invasion of Ukraine or "the special military operations", to use its terminology, because Ukraine refused to yield to Moscow's demands?

It's reported that Russia is destroying the Ukrainian infrastructure, such as power grids, to thwart the Ukrainian public's spirit to fight, a deja vu tactics U.S. forces used against Imperial Japan and its citizens toward the end of WW II to make Japan surrender in consonant with the terms the Allies dictated. 

Vladimir Putin may be comparable to Harry Truman in this respect.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

But I already know the answer.

To a question you didn't ask?

Anything illegal, immoral, criminal, war crime, anything= perfectly fine for Ukraine, and only Ukraine, to do.

Oh no, it's terrible! Ukrainians shouldn't be allowed to fight back. If only you held the Russian invaders to the same standards.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Cards fan

lol No. That doesn't justify committing war crimes against civilians. Not how that works.

Uhm you will find that according to US Rules of Engagement regarding drone strikes that actually is how it works. Loads of people got blasted because they were considered armed combattants. Many of them were actually atending weddings and the like.

Below is a link to one of many of such incidents over the years.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-idUSKBN1W80MI

Except they're already raping, pillaging, and killing in Ukraine. They don't need a "lovely angle" to be nasty, awful war criminals- they already are.

Having civilians attack soldiers provides legal cover for the Russian army retaliating, this isn't a hard concept tpo grasp.

I find it rather amazing that someone who claims to be pro Ukraine like you, seems to be extremely non worried about limiting civilian casualties in Ukraine. Weird that.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Below is a link to one of many of such incidents over the years.

None of which are relevant to the criticism of Ukrainian resistance members killing Russian invaders.

Having civilians attack soldiers provides legal cover for the Russian army retaliating, this isn't a hard concept tpo grasp.

1) No it doesn't.

2) They're already killing civilians.

I find it rather amazing that someone who claims to be pro Ukraine like you, seems to be extremely non worried about limiting civilian casualties in Ukraine. Weird that.

Yeah, how bizarre is it that I, as someone who supports Ukraine, wants them to defend themselves. Weird that.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Civilians. Why you keep avoiding this word?

I don't care. I don't care if Ukrainian civilians murder invaders. People that already murder Ukrainians in cold blood. When Russian troops die, whether at the hands of "civilians" or "western armed troops," it is a good thing. "Civilians" and "soldiers" alike should continue killing Russian troops until they've decided they've had enough and scamper back to Russia.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

That seemed to be the legallogic behind the US military whenever they killed civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

false !

there have been many allied soldiers charged with the killing of innocent civilians. In Iraq alone, 40 US soldiers were charged, with 12 serving prison time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers

There is also currently a high profile trial in Australia involving a highly decorated soldier.

when the Russian military decides to charge any of their soldiers for a war crime committed, then you may have an argument

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Read the story yourself and decide if this is something civilians should be boasting about and that CNN should be glorifying.

100% agree with you that the civilian shouldn't be boasting about it or that a news outlet should be glorifying it. I can't disagree with what he did though. The enemy should not feel comfortable in the streets of the occupied lands for one minute.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Peter14,I do not live at the mercy of any government,the government of America live at mercy of it citizen

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Yeah. Also known as a Civilian. By the absence of the terms “soldier”, “military”, “troop” or “combatant”.

Lol Nope. That's not true. Not at all. As has already been laid out, resistance members are covered by the Geneva convention.

real heroic murdering a drunk guy when he is peeing.

Not a "drunk guy." A drunk Russian invader, you're leaving critical elemetns out.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

AlternativeOpinion

100% agree with you that the civilian shouldn't be boasting about it or that a news outlet should be glorifying it. I can't disagree with what he did though. The enemy should not feel comfortable in the streets of the occupied lands for one minute.

I think it's called the resistance, and it makes holding the city more difficult for the occupiers so that they have to commit more resources to hold the city. Those resources that could have been used elsewhere.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Wil

This is what all the "the Russians are trying to break Ukrainian will but they will fail" crowd are missing. This isn't a campaign aiming to terrorize the Ukrainians into submission. This is a campaign to weaken Ukrains civilian infrastructure to such a degree that the resources available to succesfully wage a campaign against the Russians is severely weakened.

Maybe. Lack of electricity will certainly affect the supply trains.

But my take is that Putin is pushing for a ceasefire, so that he can regroup his troops. His troops are badly equiped for the winter and if Ukraine keeps the pressure on, the Russian conscripts will fare badly.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

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