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U.N. chief and West berate Russia's top diplomat over Ukraine

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By EDITH M. LEDERER

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“illegal, unprovoked and unnecessary” war in Ukraine “

Pretty much a nutshell description of Russia's invasion and war, though 'brutal nastiness' should also be addded.

12 ( +30 / -18 )

And the response was water off a ducks back... The West (US and her vassals) lecturing Russia on unjust wars..

-15 ( +16 / -31 )

unprovoked

This word is being used by each local propagandon. Evidemment you don't know the meaning of the word. This war is highly provoked!

-19 ( +12 / -31 )

This war is highly provoked!

Lol what war?

13 ( +21 / -8 )

They bicker in public,but got and have 5 course meal with each other

-16 ( +6 / -22 )

Which is why the Global South and almost all developing countries refuse to join US sanctions against Russia.

Is that why they also condemned the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

A country's economic inability to join sanctions in no part means they support the invasion. The UN voted to condemn the invasion by an overwhelming majority.

18 ( +27 / -9 )

Ukraine was promoting “Nazi practices”

Lavrov can’t possibly believe anyone outside the Russian propaganda bubble buys this nonsense.

Of course, if he didn’t say such horsecrap he’d be swiftly defenestrated.

17 ( +26 / -9 )

Four hundred years ago someone said, "An ambassador is a gentleman sent to lie abroad for the good of his country.” Lavrov is this on steroids, minus the gentleman part and even ultimately for the good of his miserable country.

15 ( +25 / -10 )

Nobody with half a brain believes anything Lavrov nor Putin nor any of his puppets says!!!

18 ( +25 / -7 )

Now you are deep informed that you are...ill-informed.

-14 ( +5 / -19 )

lavrov and putin are going somewhere where the sun never shines. They both are very scared of the power of the West. And they should be. As soon as we deem it fit, russia will be dust.

5 ( +16 / -11 )

Russia continues to disgrace itself every day.

14 ( +23 / -9 )

And the response was water off a ducks back... The West (US and her vassals) lecturing Russia on unjust wars..

On the contrary, the sister of Paul Whelan was there and was mentioned to show that Russia is also an abducting state in addition to murder and thievery.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

a deeply built concrete bunker where 300 senior Western and Ukrainian officers managed communications on behalf of NATO in Ukraine. Yesterday the Russians announced again, very discreetly, that 200 of those killed were generals and high-ranking officers.

Yes, of course, NATO makes use of its generals and high ranking officers by the hundreds to hide in a bunker doing communications work best left to communications specialists (NATO has those too, I believe).

And Moscow announced very discreetly that it had done this? Why discreetly? Why not rant and rave about this blatant interference by NATO in Putin's Special Military Fiasco? Why not immediately attack the NATO countries those generals and high ranking officers came from, to teach them lesson? Why not declare war on NATO and start using its weapons that no one knows about, like Putin has promised to do?

Because it's all bovine excrement, is why.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

Putin and his side-kick Lavrov have no respect for the UN Charter or international laws and treaties and lie through their front teeth even to their own people. 250 Russian casualties in Ukraine.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

the U.N. Charter’s underlying principle requiring all countries to support the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every nation — which Russia violated

Russia is not qualified to be in the UN at all much less holding the presidency of the UNSC. That a nation which is flagrantly violating the UN charter can do this attests to just how weak and flawed the UN is as an organization.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

conflict have to be stopped by peace negotiation since there is no military solution of it.

everyone involved have to get it right-even UA supporters.

its about time to stop,start to talk and look for peaceful solution good enough for both sides.

Lavrov is russian top diplomat and he knows that well.

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

when we come to this more in details need always think WHY all of this have happened.

who and why provoked Russia to do what they did in feb 2022.

what was reason.dont talk about consequences as conflict always starts from reason.

-11 ( +9 / -20 )

Eastman

conflict have to be stopped by peace negotiation since there is no military solution of it.

everyone involved have to get it right-even UA supporters.

its about time to stop,start to talk and look for peaceful solution good enough for both sides.

Negotiation 101 says that you should negotiate from a position of strength, which is why Ukraine would be foolish to negotiate now. They are about to mount their spring offensive and it should give them leverage in any negotiations.

Lavrov is russian top diplomat and he knows that well.

True. Lavrov know that now is the best for Russia and if they wait, they will have less of an advantage.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

250 Russian casualties in Ukraine.

wallace, stop! It's when and where?

And what source? The more credible the better

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

Eastman

when we come to this more in details need always think WHY all of this have happened.

who and why provoked Russia to do what they did in feb 2022.

what was reason.dont talk about consequences as conflict always starts from reason.

The reason this conflict started is imperialism from Putin. Nothing in Ukraine provoked this conflict. Putin considers Ukraine part of Russia and so he invaded. It's that simple.

10 ( +18 / -8 )

The lion doesn't flinch when the dogs bark..

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

unprovoked

This word is being used by each local propagandon. Evidemment you don't know the meaning of the word. This war is highly provoked!

Putin's imperialist invasion was wholly unprovoked.

And what? The word "wholly" is the proof?

Are you passing one manual from hand to hand with Taiwan? It's time to change to a new one!

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

So the UNSC, made up of countries that lost to nazi Germany, but Nazis defeated by Russia, and the division of communism states and Anglo-Saxon and colonial states, say Russia is wrong to continue to defeat Nazis, while being headquartered in New Youk, where Russians diplomates can’t visas, it is like a Zelensky comedy.

-15 ( +7 / -22 )

Lavrov chairing a Security Council meeting tells you all you need to know to conclude that the UN is busted. It's pure mockery of the ideals of the UN itself.

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Moonraker, it seems that today all commentators are on steroids:)

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

The minority leaders who make up the majority of the UNSC can pile on hypothetical criticism of Russia (America, for example illegally invaded Syria unprovoked, literally carpet bombed Raqqa to 'liberate' it, and considers Syrians who attack its invasion and occupation forces terrorists and threatened to bomb IRAN in response to such attacks) but the representatives of a third of the ICC member states were meeting in Russia the day after the US convinced the ICC Prosecutor to rush into issuing an arrest warrant for Putin, and they applauded PUTIN after spending a meeting running down the present version of the ICC for being nothing but a rubber stamp for the minority states.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

If they were smart they would all boycott meetings called by Russia while it holds the presidency of the UNSC. Russia sitting at a table with only China, getting nothing done. Priceless.

The criminal holding meetings under the guise of leadership while in the middle of its criminal endeavors. Russia has zero credibility.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Do we really expect these TOP Officials to praise Russia?

Come now!

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Lavrov stressed, that “it’s not all about Ukraine” but what he called the West’s plans to leverage the Ukrainian government in the hope of weakening Russia.

Someone needs to wake this guy up. He's dreaming. You don't attack another country on fantasies.

9 ( +14 / -5 )

The minority leaders who make up the majority of the UNSC can pile on hypothetical criticism of Russia (America, for example illegally invaded Syria unprovoked, literally carpet bombed Raqqa to 'liberate' it, and considers Syrians who attack its invasion and occupation forces terrorists and threatened to bomb IRAN in response to such attacks) but the representatives of a third of the ICC member states were meeting in Russia the day after the US convinced the ICC Prosecutor to rush into issuing an arrest warrant for Putin, and they applauded PUTIN after spending a meeting running down the present version of the ICC for being nothing but a rubber stamp for the minority states.

I'm afraid the local spiders in the jar don't even read you...

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

conflict have to be stopped by peace negotiation since there is no military solution of it.

everyone involved have to get it right-even UA supporters.

its about time to stop,start to talk and look for peaceful solution good enough for both sides.

Lavrov is russian top diplomat and he knows that well.

Just checking, you're ok with many more NATO weapons in Ukraine, right, including planes? Because Russia can't stop it.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The minority leaders who make up the majority of the UNSC can pile on hypothetical criticism of Russia (America, for example illegally invaded Syria unprovoked, literally carpet bombed Raqqa to 'liberate' it, and considers Syrians who attack its invasion and occupation forces terrorists and threatened to bomb IRAN in response to such attacks) but the representatives of a third of the ICC member states were meeting in Russia the day after the US convinced the ICC Prosecutor to rush into issuing an arrest warrant for Putin, and they applauded PUTIN after spending a meeting running down the present version of the ICC for being nothing but a rubber stamp for the minority states.

141 states told Russia to get lost.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

So the UNSC, made up of countries that lost to nazi Germany, but Nazis defeated by Russia, and the division of communism states and Anglo-Saxon and colonial states, say Russia is wrong to continue to defeat Nazis, while being headquartered in New Youk, where Russians diplomates can’t visas, it is like a Zelensky comedy.

Russia didn't defeat the Nazis alone by any stretch of the imagination. The real comedy is that a country that fought the Nazis became Nazi itself. It was never big on human rights, though, so it should have been expected.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

This is the first time I've seen you mad. No, we will never understand such freedom. Even if you crack :) I don't need your American freedom. Free Americans should guard their freedom in their own country and not meddle in other people's affairs. if you were sitting at home, there would be no war in Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't want Russian enslavement. At this point they want revenge. Europe is disunited, which is why the US is there to throw Russia back! Putin should be happy oppressing his people in his own bloated state.

7 ( +13 / -6 )

141 states told Russia to get lost.

Give a link about 141

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133847

6 ( +9 / -3 )

The UN General Assembly adopted a resolution that demands #Russia leave #Ukraine.

In favour: 141

Against: 7

Abstentions: 32

3 ( +8 / -5 )

MANY NATO Members will NEVER vote for Ukrainian NATO Membership, Hungary, Turkey and MANY more as it's not politically viable for pols across Europe much like Ukrainian migrant invasion, it's all diversion like UN 'meetings', failed state's are not what's needed.

Time to get back to Neutral Peace and Prosperity!

Interesting Ukraine reporting below on US intel 'leaks'

Salon

Leaked papers reveal reality behind Ukraine war propaganda — and it's grim

Story by Medea Benjamin & Nicolas J.S. Davies

-10 ( +5 / -15 )

MANY NATO Members will NEVER vote for Ukrainian NATO Membership, Hungary, Turkey and MANY more as it's not politically viable for pols across Europe much like Ukrainian migrant invasion, it's all diversion like UN 'meetings', failed state's are not what's needed.

Lol None of this is true. Complete nonsense.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

@Kuku

Give a link about 141

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/02/1133847

2 ( +7 / -5 )

MANY NATO Members will NEVER vote for Ukrainian NATO Membership, Hungary, Turkey and MANY more as it's not politically viable for pols across Europe much like Ukrainian migrant invasion, it's all diversion like UN 'meetings', failed state's are not what's needed.

MANY more

Lol, like who else? They won't hold the vote until far in the future but Ukraine will have full access to NATO hardware and training like yesterday. Russia cannot prevent this!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Vote for Ukraine NATO Membership's a vote for war with Russia. That's not appealing to most voters...no matter what happens at the UN or any other debate society.

Presidents of Turkey and Hungary have clearly stated, NO UKRAINE NATO Membership.

Wasting time folks, there are no polls in Europe outside of Poland and other small neighboring Russian NATO Members supporting Ukrainian NATO Membership. Requires unanimity to gain NATO Membership.

Neutrality's not perfect but clearly neither is NATO Jr. Partner proxy status!

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

TaiwanIsNotChina

As soon as America realized that the USSR was already beginning to liberate Europe, it immediately opened the second front. America was afraid to fall behind without loot when dividing Europe after the victory:))) After three years... I don't mean American soldiers. I mean hypocritical America.

3) The western allies obviously did quite a bit as they got the majority of Germany under their control.

And they didn't stay. They left in 1955.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Taiwan, when America and Europe attacked Iraq, Libya, occupied the territories of Syria without an invitation, where were these 141?

These are not sovereign states, they are jackals

If you make the entire world your enemy, you should not expect things to turn out well for you. Russia is not the primary producer of anything except misery.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Clay

Vote for Ukraine NATO Membership's a vote for war with Russia. That's not appealing to most voters...no matter what happens at the UN or any other debate society.

What about EU membership?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Ukrainian brothers and sisters, you are in my thoughts daily and you courage fighting the evilness that has descended on your country will forever be remembered by those that truly understand your sacrifices.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Presidents of Turkey and Hungary have clearly stated, NO UKRAINE NATO Membership.

Those two are already on their way out of NATO and it can happen.

Wasting time folks, there are no polls in Europe outside of Poland and other small neighboring Russian NATO Members supporting Ukrainian NATO Membership. Requires unanimity to gain NATO Membership.

There is plenty of time: what matters is the hardware and the training.

Vote for Ukraine NATO Membership's a vote for war with Russia. That's not appealing to most voters...no matter what happens at the UN or any other debate society.

See, when Putin comes out every day and says everything is a cause for war, nothing becomes a cause for war. There is no clear bluff to even be called. To top it off, Russia's land forces are a mess and in no position to do anything.

Neutrality's not perfect but clearly neither is NATO Jr. Partner proxy status!

Ukraine doesn't want neutrality. At this point they want Russians dead.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Putin and his trolls live in 19th century and don't realize that now in the 21st century with the help of free internet we can check exactly what is happening and expose all their lies.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

It's time to get Ukrainian peace negotiations underway, everything. but sadly, doubt our little Kremlin guy's interested, seems 2025 his earliest time frame.

Making PEACE tougher is crazy Ukrainian leadership's corruption, NOT good/see below!

Salon

Leaked papers reveal reality behind Ukraine war propaganda — and it's grim

Story by Medea Benjamin & Nicolas J.S. Davies

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

Putin must be stopped for the sake of the Ukrainians, the world, and the Russians.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Putin must be stopped for the sake of the Ukrainians, the world, and the Russians.

Some of us think uncontrolled weapons proliferation, starvation, inflation and military escalation risks need to be stopped at all costs.

Putin, wait him out, can't live forever, problem solved!

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Putin, wait him out, can't live forever, problem solved!

It's not going to solve the land he has stolen/is trying to steal. That could last until the sun explodes.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Do understand Opec/Mid-East, Africa, South America, all of global south has moved FAR more into China's corner as result of this madness in Ukraine and #46 failures etc.

These are REAL costs as well, forgetting this little matter of the destruction of Ukraine for the moment.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

USA doesn't exactly have a great track record but they shine next to your lot

Of course!!!! The story with Ukraine is a mark of American shining!!!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

These are REAL costs as well, forgetting this little matter of the destruction of Ukraine for the moment.

Every single thing destroyed in Ukraine will be laid at the feet of Moscow. There is no doubt in the world about that.

Do understand Opec/Mid-East, Africa, South America, all of global south has moved FAR more into China's corner as result of this madness in Ukraine and #46 failures etc.

Africa is the same today as it was before the war. The Mid-East has hated the US for decades. South America backed the condemnation of Russia almost uniformly. I'm not seeing any country really abandoning contact with the US except Russia. No one wants a manipulated Renminbi. The madness in Ukraine begins and ends with the madman that started the tanks rolling.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Do understand Opec/Mid-East, Africa, South America, all of global south has moved FAR more into China's corner as result of this madness in Ukraine and #46 failures etc.

You mistake their inaction and noncommitment as support for russia/china. They are serving their own interests, neither russia/china or the west.

Of course!!!! The story with Ukraine is a mark of American shining!!!

You betcha it is. Providing intelligence, logistics, training and material. All to help fight the invaders.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

What makes the US so dangerous, including in this Ukrainian/present global context, volatile unpredictable nature of its behavior. Scary.

With China and Russia at least their CONSISTENT Jerks!

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

What makes the US so dangerous, including in this Ukrainian/present global context, volatile unpredictable nature of its behavior. Scary.

With China and Russia at least their CONSISTENT Jerks!

That's why Russian officials said there would be no invasion right before "IT'S GO TIME!!!", right? That's why China flips out everytime Tsai Ing-wen meets with someone, right?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

With China and Russia at least their CONSISTENT Jerks!

And that is the problem, there are no checks and balances with these guys. There is no choice but to follow their rules. Give me an imperfect freedom any day.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

We all agree then, World's MESSED UP

It's interesting, none of best and brightest even believe in country, consider it pure brainwashing & propaganda!

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

At least "TaiwanisnotChina" is able to express an opinion in correct grammar to clearly argue the point

Another representative of the highest English-speaking race. English isn't my first language. I'm so sorry! Level of a provincial school. Try to write in Russian a couple of phrases, with a franslator. Or in French. Give a flash:)

You understand me? It's enough.

He's a piece of verbiage, your Taiwan

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Of course!!!! The story with Ukraine is a mark of American shining!!!

You betcha it is. Providing intelligence, logistics, training and material. All to help fight the invaders.

Alternative...you didn't understand me... It was pure sarcasm

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Alternative...you didn't understand me... It was pure sarcasm

Oh I know you intended it as sarcasm, don't worry ;)

4 ( +7 / -3 )

OMG!!! It’s the old Soviet Union back from the dead!!! The Red Dread is BACK!!!

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Putin must be stopped for the sake of the Ukrainians, the world, and the Russians.

Don't touch the Russians, please!!!

the rescuer found! Mind your own busines at your home! deal with your nurses and doctors who refuse to work, and warm up your old's homes so that they do not die from the winter cold. The Russians will manage on their own

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

The Russian people need to stop Putin dead in his tracks.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

OMG!!! It’s the old Soviet Union back from the dead!!!

That's THE BIG RISK, Putin and Xi overplay this win, #46 such temptation to do so, and not making news here but his Top National Security Advisor just stepped down...

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The Russians will manage on their own

That is why they attack Ukraine and muse about attacking every single eastern european country, huh?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

wallaceToday  11:28 am JST

The Russian people need to stop Putin dead in his tracks.

They love him, you would too if you were Russian, he's CZAR material now after all - Stand Your Ground Stuff.

Let's all focus on a better future, not more insanity and try to help Russia transition to a peace model in the decades to come, risks of not doing so just too great!

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

U.N. chief and West berate Russia's top diplomat over Ukraine

Well....they would....wouldnt they ? ( retorical )

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Yes, of course, NATO makes use of its generals and high ranking officers by the hundreds to hide in a bunker doing communications work best left to communications specialists (NATO has those too, I believe).

And Moscow announced very discreetly that it had done this? Why discreetly? Why not rant and rave about this blatant interference by NATO in Putin's Special Military Fiasco? Why not immediately attack the NATO countries those generals and high ranking officers came from, to teach them lesson? Why not declare war on NATO and start using its weapons that no one knows about, like Putin has promised to do?

Because it's all bovine excrement, is why.

Cleo, I'm so sorry but I never read your posts, I'm afraid of being poisoned by snake venom.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Let's all focus on a better future, not more insanity and try to help Russia transition to a peace model in the decades to come, risks of not doing so just too great!

What makes you think appeasing a criminal is the path to success?

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Crime is in eye of beholder, again Putin's CZAR stuff for his followers, their savior.

We need to play LONG PEACE GAME and pursue massive military spending for Europe to ensure Peace!

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

None NATOs dog Antonio Guterres didn't nominate who was to blame for the war in the Ukraine. Because to state it was any country, person or organization other than NATO would have laughed at by at least 2/3 of the general assembly.

Not based on the number that told Russia to get lost publicly.

NATOs dog Antonio Guterres

Imagine having such a poor international image that you attack the Secretary General of the United Nations.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Agreed, images of war and all its death, destruction, starvation, inflation, etc. ALL NOT GOOD

Let's Pursue the OPPOSITE, Putin will pass someday, we need to build Peace and Prosperity brick by brick and not so easily destabilize the entire world in the future!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Agreed, images of war and all its death, destruction, starvation, inflation, etc. ALL NOT GOOD

Let's Pursue the OPPOSITE, Putin will pass someday, we need to build Peace and Prosperity brick by brick and not so easily destabilize the entire world in the future!

We need to make sure he has as little territory as possible, though, or we will never get it back. We don't know what will replace him and we don't know if Russia will collapse again.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

We need to make sure he has as little territory as possible, though, or we will never get it back. We don't know what will replace him and we don't know if Russia will collapse again.

By we you mean all those Ukrainians throwing their lives away right? Agreed, we're FAR closer to collapse than Russia these days, sad reality.

Territory's just not so important anymore, all best assets are IP these days, so far better for Ukraine to focus on science/tech/education and not lousy dirt.

Da word!

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Russia: The reason for Russia’s butchery in Ukraine is because of the U.S.

But what about Russia kidnapping Ukrainian children?!

Russia: No further questions! I’m busy! I’ll just say it’s all because of the U.S.!!!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Territory's just not so important anymore, all best assets are IP these days, so far better for Ukraine to focus on science/tech/education and not lousy dirt.

This is the most pathetic excuse for appeasement I've ever heard.

Maybe they can have a country in the Cloud?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Nobody said winding misadventures down easy!

This is the most pathetic excuse for appeasement I've ever heard.

Maybe they can have a country in the Cloud?

Time to get off High Arm-Chair Idealism War fighting, especially considering their corrupt leadership/see below. Throwing lives away hardly the right move.

Do we really think newly constituted rapid force of some 40K untested just trained soldiers is winning hand?

Good 'liberal' take on US Ukraine Intel leaks below...

Salon

Leaked papers reveal reality behind Ukraine war propaganda — and it's grim

Story by Medea Benjamin & Nicolas J.S. Davies

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Dear Russia, "my country right or wrong". OK, we get that.

So, no ability given or allowed within Russia to criticize my own country, but total freedom to criticize all others! What kind of blindness is this? A bull in a china shop.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Putin's calc for Russian losses, NET GAIN of millions, as many new Ukrainians absorbed while many loser and criminal Russians thrown to the meat grinder.

Just business for him, more hard cold leadership reality.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

But look at that photo above! The world knows, and still allows the bull into the china shop.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Cleo, I'm so sorry but I never read your posts, I'm afraid 

Thank you for the compliment. Glad to know I'm yanking your chain.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Time to get off High Arm-Chair Idealism War fighting,

Why? Should I be someone who appeases murderers and excuses genocide, like you?

No thanks, I'll stay in my chair, you can stay in whatever sordid place brings you satisfaction from supporting someone like Putin.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Territory's just not so important anymore, all best assets are IP these days, so far better for Ukraine to focus on science/tech/education and not lousy dirt.

Then grand chessmaster Putin should have focused his country on those things 20 years ago instead of thuggery. Well, if all he understands is force, then that is how he will have to be dealt with.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Russia seems to be in a period of temporary mass insanity.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

The biggest mistake the UN made was allowing Russia to keep the USSR's Security Council seat. It's a fact that the USSR split up into several different countries, with Russia being the largest. But that doesn't mean it deserved to remain a veto-wielding member of that council.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

mistake the UN made was allowing Russia to keep the USSR's Security Council seat

Very funny, as if such seats are somehow granted or given by UN. The permanent seats in Security Council , in case they are really wanted, are just taken, demanded or ‘earned’ when possession of mass destruction tools like nuclear arms is officially announced and proven. You can verify yourself on Wikipedia, that nuclear armament has been a decisive criteria right from the beginning of UN Charta.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Clay,

 none of best and brightest even believe in country, consider it pure brainwashing & propaganda!

Are you saying that only the more stupid of us support "nationalism"? If so, I tend to agree. Sadly, I think I'm in the minority.

Thanks for the Medea Benjamin & Nicolas J.S. Davies reference. I'm reading their paper now. It's a good reminder of the mess and division within Ukraine prior to Russia's invasion - in particular, the broad split between its western and eastern regions.

As for solutions, I'm afraid I don't know. I would like to see western leaders push hard for a cease fire, and then push for the right of the people of Donetsk and Luhansk to determine their own futures. No doubt Putin will say they already have determined their futures, and he may have a point. While the validity of the referendums held in 2014 are disputed, various polls have shown the majority favor either decentralization within Ukraine or joining Russia. The decentralization idea formed part of the Minsk agreements, and Putin has used Ukraine's failure to comply partly as an excuse for invasion.

And readers please note I don't support Russia's invasion. I think Putin is crazy. But I'd like to see a solution that stops the horrors that people in Ukraine are facing. Simply supplying weapons is not going to stop that.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

It is worth noting that the posters claiming that 'Ukraine hates Russia' ignore that the last time there was a democratic election in Ukraine, the majority voted for a President that wanted to keep good relations with Russia.

Obama backed the coup, and ever since there's been a war in Ukraine by the western supported MINORITY against the Ukrainians who want good relations with Russia, and 'elections' where the population of the industrial and agricultural heartland of Ukraine has been excluded from the vote. Imagine that Trump had succeeded on January 6th, and the upcoming elections for the President would see California and New York votes tossed out. Would you call the 'landslide' win by Trump or Trump's altright replacement democratic, and then say Americans hate Mexico (and Canada) based on what the 'majority' voted for?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

RichardPearce

It is worth noting that the posters claiming that 'Ukraine hates Russia' ignore that the last time there was a democratic election in Ukraine, the majority voted for a President that wanted to keep good relations with Russia.

Obama backed the coup, and ever since there's been a war in Ukraine by the western supported MINORITY against the Ukrainians who want good relations with Russia

I do not know about "minority", afaik the ethnic Russians are about 1/3 of the population, and the Western (Galician) part of the country has been anti-Russian for a long time. However, the Minsk accords were supposed to strike a reasonable balance of Ukrainian souverinity while respecting the rights of the ethnic Russians. Zelenski and the Western signers violated those. One would hope the commenters with strong opinions here would read background like this, instead of just media headlines.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Russia seems to be in a period of temporary mass insanity.

You may not believe but the Russian (within rus borders) think about YOU and your governance the same. Even more! From Moscow you (not all) look like a madhouse... it is not sarcasm, it's sadness. Pu has 80% people's support.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

If you think that the Ukraine conflict was unprovoked then you obviously have absolutely no idea whats going on .

Give us your top 5 excuses for invasion and annexation, along with all the usual mass graves, civilian murdering etc. It started with 'Nazis', but its evolved from there I believe. In fact, I doubt Nazis even make it into the top 10 anymore.

It's hard to keep track of what Putin is telling you to tell us why he is doing this, so an update would be appreciated.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Give us your top 5 excuses for invasion and annexation

I can think of only one. If the people in one area of a neighboring country are being denied rights and being attacked by those from another area of the same country, then is there not a case?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Jimizo

Excellent.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

And readers please note I don't support Russia's invasion. I think Putin is crazy. But I'd like to see a solution that stops the horrors that people in Ukraine are facing. Simply supplying weapons is not going to stop that.

The #1 horror has got to be bully Putin removing land from your country with no plan to stop it. Such thefts last until the end of time for Russia as we've seen with Kaliningrad and the Norther Territories. That is why a military solution has to come first, either by kicking the Russians out now or arming Ukraine sufficiently to prevent it from being taken in the future.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I can think of only one. If the people in one area of a neighboring country are being denied rights and being attacked by those from another area of the same country, then is there not a case?

This offers no explanation 1) why you wouldn't try to get UN observers in 2) why you would try for a decapitation strike with no demands or 3) why you would try to steal any land you occupy.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I do not know about "minority", afaik the ethnic Russians are about 1/3 of the population, and the Western (Galician) part of the country has been anti-Russian for a long time. However, the Minsk accords were supposed to strike a reasonable balance of Ukrainian souverinity while respecting the rights of the ethnic Russians. Zelenski and the Western signers violated those. One would hope the commenters with strong opinions here would read background like this, instead of just media headlines.

What a self serving bunch of arguments. 1) Russia was not a party to Minsk and why was Ukraine being forced to sign Minsk with Russian criminals on its territory? 2) By making it impossible for Ukraine to control the east, it is Russia's fault if Ukraining politics took a move towards the west. 3) The separatists did not follow the ceasefire, Russia did not withdraw, and Ukraine was not given control of its borders to hold a referendum. 4-6) Russia acted like a complete criminal afterwards as I mentioned in my post.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@TaiwanIsNotChina,

This offers no explanation

The question asked for excuses, not justification. I agree with the first two of your points (I don't fully understand the third). That's why I've condemned Putin throughout this war. But I am starting to wonder whether Russia had tried to pursue those things and had been ignored. I'm thinking of Zelensky's apparent change in policy after election and the "f--- the EU" comment from a US diplomat regarding Ukraine's government.

Whatever, the horror of war is there, and I only hope someone can do something to make it go away.

Out of interest, considering your user name, do you think the people of Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea should be able to determine their own futures?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I don't fully understand the third

You don't understand that holding referendums to join Russia not even one year into the war exposes that this was a criminal land grab from the beginning? Then we have all of the comments from Putin lamenting how Ukraine was given Crimea as further evidence.

But I am starting to wonder whether Russia had tried to pursue those things and had been ignored.

You honestly think the US would have turned down the chance to send observers into Donetsk and Luhansk? Of course we would have loved to see impartial observers rather than just a Kremlin narrative.

the "f--- the EU" comment from a US diplomat regarding Ukraine's government.

1) This is the conspiracy stuff that the US caused the Maidan. If so, that is some next level work as we've been able to keep the country pro-west for almost a decade now without a shot fired. Russia also implicitly recognized the Maidan as legitimate by retaining relations. 2) It doesn't matter what the US said. This war is about Ukraine.

Whatever, the horror of war is there, and I only hope someone can do something to make it go away.

It shouldn't be made to go away and leave Ukraine without important territory or worse not a viable state. It shouldn't be made to go away without massive (like much more than there is now) armament of Ukraine to ensure that more land grabs don't happen in the future.

Out of interest, considering your user name, do you think the people of Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea should be able to determine their own futures?

If Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea formed their own republics, distinct from Russia, and if those republics lasted 70 years, yeah I could see a similar comparison. Otherwise it is just wishful thinking on the part of Russia. Taiwan was born from an actual civil war and not forced out by an occupying power like the areas you mentioned.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Syria berated the US, UK, and France over America's illegal and unprovoked invasion and brutal occupation of Syria, and the humanitarian crisis all three are responsible for imposing on Syrian civilians, but I guess that isn't worth reporting.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

albaleo

But I am starting to wonder whether Russia had tried to pursue those things and had been ignored.

No they didn't. Putin's playbook in invading other countries is to persuade a potentially disaffected group that they need their own sovereignty. He starts with information warfare and sending in infiltrators. It is what happened in Georgia in 2008, and how he got control of part of that country. It is what is currently happening in Moldova. Putin is actively trying to destabilise Moldova.

Why do you think this unrest suddenly occurred in 2014? Russia had been destabilising the Dombas and sent in its own forces to start the civil war.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Don't understand how Guterres can shake a hand with Lavrov. Criminals and war mongers belong to prison not to the civilized society. Lavrov should not have received a visa to US even though a diplomat.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Syria berated the US, UK, and France over America's illegal and unprovoked invasion and brutal occupation of Syria, and the humanitarian crisis all three are responsible for imposing on Syrian civilians, but I guess that isn't worth reporting.

Considering Assad gasses his own people and barrel bombs his own cities, yes, it isn't worth reporting.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Considering Assad gasses his own people and barrel bombs his own cities, yes, it isn't worth reporting.

I hope evidences are ready at your hand. You remember that not everybody believes your info pocket garbages CNN etc.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

I hope evidences are ready at your hand. You remember that not everybody believes your info pocket garbages CNN etc.

Considering I'm not going to believe your garbage RT or CCTV, we are at an impasse. It's not my project, so I will just believe what is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_during_the_Syrian_civil_war

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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