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U.N. envoy says 'reasonable grounds' to believe Hamas committed sexual violence on Oct 7

39 Comments
By EDITH M. LEDERER

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39 Comments

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Reasonable?! Hamas tossed severed breasts of Israeli women they’d raped. Reminiscent of the Nazis during WWII.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

What's the source NYT hoax?

https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/

.

The fact that happened during all those during occupation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/idf-sexual-abuse-palestine-gaza-b2498888.html

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1708377961-un-human-rights-chief-accuses-idf-of-assaulting-palestinian-women-israel-denies-allegations

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

What's the source NYT hoax?

Nope. It says in the first sentence it’s a new report.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

This is a desperate attempt to re-launder the debunked NYT story, this time through the UN. Ms. Patten was hosted and coached by the Israeli foreign minister and the ZAKA chief, the same man who fabricated many of the original atrocity stories.

Patten is the same person who claimed in 2022 that Russia was giving Viagra to its soldiers to rape Ukrainian women. A liar for hire, apparently.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

The fact that happened during all those during occupation.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/idf-sexual-abuse-palestine-gaza-b2498888.html

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1708377961-un-human-rights-chief-accuses-idf-of-assaulting-palestinian-women-israel-denies-allegations

Whataboutism and a really creepy point to be making. Are you saying that Hamas’ rapes are justifiable because of reported IDF sexual assaults? What point are you trying to make here?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Rape, pillage, burn. Gotta do it in the correct order. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is war.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Certain people will believe any UN criticism of Israel - and spread it as gospel. Yet they ridicule any criticism of terrorist group, Hamas, and credible reports of their use of rape and sexual assault.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Yeah that story has already been debunked

NYT Hamas Rape Story FALLING APART? Briahna Joy Gray And Steve Krakauer DEBATE (youtube.com)

The Intercept: New York Times Exposé Lacks Evidence to Claim Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence Oct. 7 (youtube.com)

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Yeah that story has already been debunked

This is a new, separate investigation it appears

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

This is a new, separate investigation it appears

Sure. Whatever.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Sure. Whatever.

Am I wrong?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Interesting. Just like there are reasonable grounds that Israel is commiting genocide.

Im certainly all ears to hear what evidence they have to support the case. Especially after the NYT absolutely obliterated any credibility the case previously had.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

Sure. Whatever.

Am I wrong?

About it being a new investigation? No I believe you. I just don't believe this new investigation- especially that it is coming on the tails of the story about the IDF killing hundreds of starving Palestinians

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Reasonable?! Hamas tossed severed breasts of Israeli women they’d raped

Watching from behind a grassy knoll were you?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Beheaded babies listen in silence

4 ( +7 / -3 )

I just don't believe this new investigation- especially that it is coming on the tails of the story about the IDF killing hundreds of starving Palestinians

What does this investigation have to do with your statement?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

stormcrow

Today 07:04 am JST

Reasonable?! Hamas tossed severed breasts of Israeli women they’d raped. Reminiscent of the Nazis during WWII

The only ones reminiscent of the Nazis of WW2 are the IDF! Shooting people with white flags, massacring civilians trying to get food, blocking the border so no food can enter! Disgusting war criminals one and all!

How convenient this reports drops just after the IDF slaughtered over 100 and wounded 1000 trying to get flour......

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

What does this investigation have to do with your statement?

My first statement? That the lies of Oct 7 have already been debunked?

Everything

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

There's been little doubt that rape and sexual violence were amongst the atrocities committed on Oct 7th. However the claim made by Israeli spokespeople and the controversial NYT article is that it was widespread and systematic. The U.N. report suggests the opposite.

Many of the most grotesque stories have also been debunked. "40 beheaded babies" According to official Israeli investigations 36 children were killed on Oct 7th. Only one of which was an infant shot alongside his mother.

Strangely a lot of the claims mirror the actions of Israeli forces in massacres like Deir Yassin and Tantura. Cutting out of fetus' and cutting off breasts were atrocities boasted about by those that committed the masacres.

It's not mentioned in the article that the report also cited the use of sexual violence by Israeli occupation forces against Palestinian detainees in the west bank.

Non of this is meant to diminish the atrocities and war crimes that have been taking place but fact and nuance are important.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

That the lies of Oct 7 have already been debunked?

Which lies? According to this newest investigation there’s clear evidence of sexual assault by Hamas on October 7th

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

My first statement?

No, you said “I just don't believe this new investigation- especially that it is coming on the tails of the story about the IDF killing hundreds of starving Palestinians”. Why don’t you believe the report because of reports of the IDF killing hundreds? How are the two related at all and why does one make you doubt the validity of the other?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Which lies?

40 beheaded babies. Or did you forget

According to this newest investigation there’s clear evidence of sexual assault by Hamas on October 7th

Sure. Whatever

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

""There are also “reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing,” said Pramila Patten, who visited Israel and the West Bank from Jan 29 to Feb 14 with a nine-member team. In the report, she said the team “found clear and convincing information” that some hostages have been subjected to the same forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and “sexualized torture.”""

If true !?? which has already been denied by the released female hostages, it is nothing when compared to sexual abuse and torture Palestinian Teen Girls, Women and even Men suffer daily at the hand of the IOF in Gaza.

On several occasions MALE Israeli army personal stripped Naked Palestinian Teen Girls, Women and Men then ordered them to parade in front of them before hand cuffing them and taking them away. Some Israeli soldiers even kept women women underclothing as reported by AP.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-detainee-palestinian-deaths-hospitals-51d4727a1365b9e06198579c3eb856f8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ax8SfwkIM

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Why don’t you believe the report because of reports of the IDF killing hundreds? How are the two related at all and why does one make you doubt the validity of the other?

Simple. the timing leads me to believe that this is a hastily made report designed to draw attention away from Israeli atrocities. So it is logical to be skeptical of it especially when we were fed false info previously about the beheaded babies.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

If true !?? which has already been denied by the released female hostages, it is nothing when compared to sexual abuse and torture Palestinian Teen Girls, Women and even Men suffer daily at the hand of the IOF in Gaza.

On several occasions MALE Israeli army personal stripped Naked Palestinian Teen Girls, Women and Men then ordered them to parade in front of them before hand cuffing them and taking them away. Some Israeli soldiers even kept women women underclothing as reported by AP.

exactly! where's the report on that??

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Simple. the timing leads me to believe that this is a hastily made report designed to draw attention away from Israeli atrocities. So it is logical to be skeptical of it especially when we were fed false info previously about the beheaded babies.

So your skepticism is based on zero evidence but rather a feeling? This report seems to be substantiated by the U.N., which has been relatively harsh on Israelis approach to the conflict. The beheaded baby thing was never substantiated by the U.N.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

So your skepticism is based on zero evidence but rather a feeling?

No. My skepticism comes from being told lies about Oct 7 and all of a sudden being asked to believe what this report says. As the saying goes fool me once shame on you..

My skepticism comes from listening to investigative reporters like Jeremy Scahill who continue to debunk lie after lie about what Israel says happened.

This report seems to be substantiated by the U.N., which has been relatively harsh on Israelis approach to the conflict. The beheaded baby thing was never substantiated by the U.N.

The report, does not substantiate WIDESPREAD rape. Which is what Israel is saying.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

No. My skepticism comes from being told lies about Oct 7 and all of a sudden being asked to believe what this report says. As the saying goes fool me once shame on you..

The report of 40 beheaded babies and this report were done by completely separate entities with nothing in common. Your logic of discounting all reporting on a subject from all agencies because of one false report makes no sense

Let me ask you this: Do you also discount all reports by the Gaza health ministry because of their false reporting on the Al-Ahli al-Arabi Hospital?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

The report of 40 beheaded babies and this report were done by completely separate entities with nothing in common.

So what exactly makes this report so much more credible than others?

Your logic of discounting all reporting on a subject from all agencies because of one false report makes no sense

It makes perfect sense. If you are fed lies you should naturally be skeptical. Anyone who isn't would be an idiot

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

There’s plenty of eyewitness testimony and physical evidence substantiating sexual violence against women by Hamas on October 7th.

Let me ask you this: Do you also discount all reports by the Gaza health ministry because of their false reporting on the Al-Ahli al-Arabi Hospital?

Both of these comments of yours have been debunked by Jeremy Scahill. If you really are after the truth and not an Israeli apologist, I would recommend going to YouTube and checking out Scahill. He has a lot to say, and he backs it all up.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

So what exactly makes this report so much more credible than others?

It was substantiated by the U.N. Do you not believe the U.N.?

It makes perfect sense. If you are fed lies you should naturally be skeptical. Anyone who isn't would be an idiot

In the face of evidence it isn’t skepticism, it’s delusion.

Both of these comments of yours have been debunked by Jeremy Scahill. 

I think you’re confused. I’m not talking about Al Shifa hospital I’m talking about Al-Ahli al-Arabi Hospital, which I can’t find any video or article of Jeremy Scahill debunking. The hospital that the Gaza Health ministry reported on as being bombed by Israel but was later found to be a misfired Islamic Jihad rocket.

Also, how would he debunk a report that came out today?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Hamas and their fan boys here say it didn’t happen. That’s good enough for me!

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

It was substantiated by the U.N. Do you not believe the U.N.?

Well lets see..

In the report, she said the team “found clear and convincing information” that some hostages have been subjected to the same forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and “sexualized torture.”

IF they make that information available to the public and open to scrutiny by independent sources then fine. But I'm not buying it until then. I'm not saying the UN is lying- I'm just saying that independent verification is warranted before believing the report as blindly as you do.

In the face of evidence it isn’t skepticism, it’s delusion.

Its delusion to believe everything being fed to you.

I think you’re confused. I’m not talking about Al Shifa hospital I’m talking about Al-Ahli al-Arabi Hospital, which I can’t find any video or article of Jeremy Scahill debunking.

You are right on that. I did confuse the 2 hospitals and I owe you an apology on that one.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Patten’s report said the team’s visit “was neither intended nor mandated to be investigative in nature.”

Huh?? So basically unbelievable and unverified...

She said the team was not able to meet with any victims of sexual violence “despite concerted efforts to encourage them to come forward.”

So only heresy from sources that have been shown to be questionable!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So, why isn't Ms. Pramila Patten and her team going to Gaza and investigating the the IOF crimes including sexual abuse ??

Rafah city has thousands of victims, Teen Girls, young Women, Boys, and even young men. and can easily be documented!!

Going to Israel only tells one side of the story,

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@JboneInTheZone

Whataboutism and a really creepy point to be making. Are you saying that Hamas’ rapes are justifiable because of reported IDF sexual assaults? What point are you trying to make here?

No just trying to show that it may happened to both side, however one side love to play victim and get spotlight that that it should be.

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/cnn-report-claiming-sexual-violence-on-october-7-relied-on-non-credible-witnesses-some-with-undisclosed-ties-to-israeli-govt/

0 ( +4 / -4 )

@JboneInTheZone

It was substantiated by the U.N. Do you not believe the U.N.?

According to UN it should be sanction to force occupier to do cease fire.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240304-un-rights-expert-calls-to-sanction-israel-to-reach-gaza-ceasefire/

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@JboneInTheZone

No, you said “I just don't believe this new investigation- especially that it is coming on the tails of the story about the IDF killing hundreds of starving Palestinians”.

This report was released by UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). You trust UN as you said before right? People that being starving by occupiers is considered as a threat? Or they just want to make them suffer first as possibly can than eliminate them?

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-un-human-rights-office-strongly-deplores-killing-least-112-palestinians-during-food-aid-distribution-gaza-city-enar

2 ( +4 / -2 )

She said the team was not able to meet with any victims of sexual violence “despite concerted efforts to encourage them to come forward.”

So only heresy from sources that have been shown to be questionable! - Sanjinosebleed

This was the same issue the NYT article had. A lack testimonies from actual victims or from hospitals and support centres that would have dealt with the cases.

But I imagine the sad fact is anyone caught and raped would have been very unlikely to have lived to tell the talde or would have taken as a hostage into Gaza.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

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