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British reject May's Brexit plan; some turn to Boris Johnson and far right: poll

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By Andrew MacAskill

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Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union is little more than an add-on/afterthought, poorly written, lacking clear narrative, or a legal mechanism to define a conclusive system for dispute arbitration.

Select Committee on the European Union

EU Financial Affairs Sub-Committee

Corrected oral evidence: Brexit: EU Budget

Dr María-Luisa Sánchez-Barrueco, Senior Lecturer in EU Law and Politics, University of Deusto........

http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/eu-financial-affairs-subcommittee/brexit-eu-budget/oral/45724.html

Dr María-Luisa Sánchez-Barrueco, oral submission defines the predicament.......

In my view, from a legal perspective, there will be only two options in April 2019: either an agreement, in which case its provisions will apply, or nothing. When I say nothing, I mean it. If the treaties collapse for the UK, the whole legal building—all the legal documents hanging from the treaties—will collapse. That includes the MFF, the annual budget, the programmes and the individual funding decisions for beneficiaries.

There is no halfway house to membership of the European Union, the UK is either in or out.

Prime Minister Theresa May foolishly attempted to portray seel the pubic a 3rd half in , half out option, all doomed to failure, in doing so created a political storm of resentment.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

That's depressing. The narcissistic, lying Johnson has offered no suggestions as to how to negotiate with the EU: he just lies and blusters from the sidelines.

Asked about a story in The Sun newspaper that the government was planning to stockpile processed food, Raab initially replied"no"

I can believe that. The government is so incompetent it hasn't planned for anything.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Brits are most un-European Europeans, They have never been a real part of Europe and by refusing the Euro they have made sure they do not become real part of it, by refusing to use the Euro currency they have also weakened EU as a whole. I would say kick them out and close the door behind them.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Brits are most un-European Europeans, They have never been a real part of Europe and by refusing the Euro they have made sure they do not become real part of it, 

Are Switzerland, Denmark, Czech Republic, Norway and Sweden European?

Most would say yes, but they don't use the Euro

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@ZvonkoJonathan

I agree that Brits don't feel European. I think it's mainly because Britain has always been more global in its outlook (British Empire then Commonwealth). Refusing to join the Euro was proabably the best decision the UK ever made. The Euro hasn't worked for anybody.

I am sure the British Government will try its best to continue to ignore public opinion and will push for a soft Remain, or eventually a second referendum.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Brits are most un-European Europeans

Considering the amount of money and lives the UK spent in the last century preserving Europe, many would argue otherwise. Brits just don't agree with a federal Europe, and have warned the EU about such moves for decades.

by refusing the Euro they have made sure they do not become real part of it, by refusing to use the Euro currency they have also weakened EU as a whole.

Hardly fair to blame the UK for that. We weren't obliged to switch currencies you know.

I would say kick them out and close the door behind them.

They've already decided to leave, but if it makes you feel better go ahead.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I was prepared to cut May a bit of slack over Brexit. Leading the cannibal party which has been killing each other for decades over Europe was always going to be a big ask.

However, the incompetence has been stunning. I can only imagine Johnson as someone capable of screwing things up even worse.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Brexit won't be the first political idea to backfire, but surely must be the first where the people who set the course for it scarpered before making any attempt at realization, leaving other stooges to work the unworkable. It's like Lenin buggering off after the Revolution.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

May is useless.  Got the job by default.  BJ is a loose cannon and wildly ambitious, but couldn't be worse that May.  And yes, Brits are tired of the whole Brexit debate - they just want shot of EU and the arrogant statements and threats that keep coming from Tusk and Brussels have just reinforced that feeling.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

BJ is a loose cannon and wildly ambitious, but couldn't be worse that May

Yes, he could. May is incompetent but not a showboating, narcissistic, opportunistic clown. Add those flaws to proven incompetence in office, and you could well be looking at something far worse.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Thirty-eight percent of people would vote for a new right-wing party that is committed to Brexit, while almost a quarter would support an explicitly far-right anti-immigrant, anti-Islam party, the poll found.

You would get pretty much the same numbers all over Europe. Don't think the Brits 'feel' more or less European than other euros tbh. I think the concept of a pan-European identify is less accepted /popular over there though (we saw that during ww2).

On the mainland,, dozens if not hundreds of nations have been living under 'foreign' rulers for centuries. For the Basques, Catalans, Corsicans and until recently Serbs, Slovaks, Croats etc there isn't much difference between Brussels, Madrid, Paris, Rome etc.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Sad to see what's happened to the UK. They've really shot themselves in the foot over this whole debacle.

Brexit campaigner Nigel Farage and U.S. President Donald Trump’s former adviser Steve Bannon are in discussions about forming a new right-wing movement, according to The Sunday Times.

The city boy spiv and the white nationalist meddler. Let them try. Fascism will be defeated, as it always is in the UK.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I agree that Brits don't feel European. I think it's mainly because Britain has always been more global in its outlook (British Empire then Commonwealth).

My home country was a colonial power once and erected South Africa, discovered Australia before the Britons made it a penal state, discovered New Zealand and founded New York till they swapped it for a British slave terminal in South America. 400 years ago they were the only nation able to trade with the Japanese.

Belgium and especially Spain and France were huge colonial powers as well.

In 2017 77% of my compatriots felt positive about the EU compared to 62% in 2013.

A vast majority however is against further expansion of the Union.

That many Britons don't feel European has probably more to do with their island thinking but the many Scots have a different opinion.

Refusing to join the Euro was probably the best decision the UK ever made. The Euro hasn't worked for anybody. 

The Euro worked excellent for the net paying countries of the eurozone and only the Italians, one of the founding fathers, think differently about that. In Germany and my home country a. o. there's a growing support for a smaller eurozone.

The Euro as a currency works also excellent for the lads and lassies trashing the centre of my home city.

I am sure the British Government will try its best to continue to ignore public opinion and will push for a soft Remain, or eventually a second referendum.

A medium rare Brexit is best for all :)

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

On the mainland,, dozens if not hundreds of nations have been living under 'foreign' rulers for centuries. For the Basques, Catalans, Corsicans and until recently Serbs, Slovaks, Croats etc there isn't much difference between Brussels, Madrid, Paris, Rome etc.

Most Britons have German DNA :)

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

And yes, Brits are tired of the whole Brexit debate - they just want shot of EU and the arrogant statements and threats that keep coming from Tusk and Brussels have just reinforced that feeling.

How many Brits? Wasn't 60% of the young people in favour of remain? Was the outcome just 52% versus 48% ? So what's the current status?

There's a lot of misunderstanding about correct figures as for example Trumpists think that 62.9 million votes resemble 65.8 million votes :)

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Brits are most un-European Europeans, They have never been a real part of Europe and by refusing the Euro they have made sure they do not become real part of it, by refusing to use the Euro currency they have also weakened EU as a whole. I would say kick them out and close the door behind them.

Says someone who obviously knows nothing about the British, the EU or the Euro. Google is your friend.

Britons are sick and tired of Brexit, and sick of hearing about it, sick of self serving politicians feathering their own nests and sick of the government. Most now want to stay anyway.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How many Brits? Wasn't 60% of the young people in favour of remain?

Something like that.

What happened to their ‘island mentality’? How about the ‘island mentality’ of the Scots and the Northern Irish?

My mother is a hard-left brexiteer from the Republic of Ireland who voted yes to joining the Common Market in the 70s, but out in 2016 after seeing what an undemocratic behemoth it became.

I don’t think ‘island mentality’ really covers the details you partly went into.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Well, Britain certainly paid plenty in its blood to fight for Europe in two world wars. The gratitude from Merkel etc is overwhelming (sarcasm alert).

But I agree, with the current (again) German dominated push to destroy Europe the UK is well out of it. Shut the door indeed and leave the 'europeans' to it.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Well, Britain certainly paid plenty in its blood to fight for Europe in two world wars. The gratitude from Merkel etc is overwhelming (sarcasm alert).

But I agree, with the current (again) German dominated push to destroy Europe the UK is well out of it. Shut the door indeed and leave the 'europeans' to it.

Nobody in continental Europe denies the British, Canadian, American and Russian efforts to fight a nationalist ideology but the gratitude should go primary to those involved during that war, the death, the injured, the survivors and their families and not to compatriots who, more than 70 years later, ran out of ammunition on a forum's thread.

We'll do fine with or without you, although trade will always exist thus business as usual but with a different price tag :)

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

I like Boris Johnston.

What do you know about him?

He reminds me of British Trump

That’s what people who don’t know anything about him say.

He seems like a strongman leader

If strong means jumping on bandwagons late after you’ve thought about which option suits your selfish interest best, he’s as strong as they come.

You really don’t know much about this man aside from the silly hair, do you?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

The 1974-75 UK Renegotiation of EEC Membership and Referendum.......Vaughne Miller.....

There is a left hand margin 2015 comparison. A year before the 2016 referendum.

http://filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pdfs/small/cab-129-181-c-19.pdf

Sorry, wish I could, a millennial, offer a more quantify systemic point by point conclusions.

Six members of the 1974/5 cabinet, to name Michael Foot, Tony Benn, where to paraphrase anti marketeers.

PM Harold Wilson attempted to renegotiate UK-EEC relationship, economic, haplessly PM Edward Heath and the French Premier Georges Pompidou had agreed, on ghastly unfavourable terms, covered in the above document, on which the UK had entered the then EEC

Political accountably for our elected politicians is the key.

Hi Jimizo, hard left?.

My I humble suggest, maybe, as my English Father and Grandparents they felt cheated.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Help, sorry rhat docmument is a copy of the orginal,

Vaughne Miller analysis ......

The 1974-75 UK Renegotiation of EEC Membership and Referendum

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7253/CBP-7253.pdf

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hi Jimizo, hard left?. 

My I humble suggest, maybe, as my English Father and Grandparents they felt cheated.

Sorry, I’m not quite catching what you are saying here.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Well Jimizo, I do believe that, obviously not wanting to speculate the age of your Mother that all share similar political views where UK relationship to continued membership of the EU.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Can socialism, be characteristically be defined as hard left in the 21st century where UK relationship and withdrawal from the European Union?

Thinking out loud.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What an absolute insult to the intelligence of Japanese people.

I wonder as extreme right views are pretty established within Japanese politics and society.

A few years ago I stayed at a brand new business hotel of the APA Group and found a booklet in the room entitled ' The Real History of Japan' written by the CEO Toshio Montoya. I looked into it and almost missed an appointment because of the content.

It felt like the owner of a German hotel chain denying the Holocaust. The difference is that such a booklet would be forbidden in Germany and the hotel chain fined.

Last year I strolled around the Yushukan next to Yasukuni Jinga and I must say that it was pretty breathtaking.

In reference to the mentioned intelligence of the Japanese people are they generally spoken in consent, in denial or just ignorant?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

LIttle did they know that a German lead Europe would be trying to stick it to the U.K for daring to go against German interests a mere 70 years after 'victory'.

Nonsense.

Britain is going against its own interests. Still, it's good news for Ireland with all the business going there and if the GFA survives - we could see the occupied 6 counties finally being released from the empire.

Which could lead to Sinn Fein forming a government.

Just imagine that. The Conservatives would have a meltdown.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Hmm, good point. However, I shall try to remain optimistic. A few Japanese nationalists on a relatively low profile site hurrahing for a man they know precious little about doesn't represent all Japanese.

I'll be optimistic with you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Toasted heretic, the nonsense is all yours.

Good point and well argued.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Well, Britain certainly paid plenty in its blood to fight for Europe in two world wars. The gratitude from Merkel etc is overwhelming (sarcasm alert).

Considering Britain fought Germany in each war, I would not really expect a lot of gratitude.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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