Chinese state media urges Canada to defy U.S. and free Huawei exec

And I would retort, free book editors, Tibeten prisoners, Uzbek people (millions) the head of Interpol, South China Sea, give free access to the Internet. Stop percussion of religion. The list goes on. Is China actually aware of this stupidity of this urge?

Trump won't back down! If the scared Canadians even try, we'll sanction them. MAGMA/KAGEL!

It was the Americans who decided to place global sanctions on Iran, just because the Iranians won't toe the line regarding their nuclear programme (it's actually an Israeli request). So why does Chinese business have to sanction their own trade with Iran? So what if Huawei want to do business with Iran? And why do the Canadians have to arrest a Chinese business executive just because the Americans want to starve Iran's economy?

Until Trump stumbled into town there was a nuclear treaty with Iran which eased those sanctions. The only reason this exec is arrested is because Trump didn't agree with peace with Iran.

This is nonsense.

Yeah so we're going to suddenly defy all our own laws and treaties just to satisfy your corrupt and money-grubbing country. Sure thing buddy

So glad we stood up to China. I don't even care what economically happens. You messed with... Canada.

The rule of law is no political interference, not the rule of political interference. I can see where Chinese are confused. They simply have no concept of it

why does Chinese business have to sanction their own trade with Iran?

That's how sanctions work. Of course the Chinese don't have to follow the sanctions, but if they don't, the should definitely not go anywhere that the Americans can get their hands on them.

why do the Canadians have to arrest a Chinese business executive just because the Americans want to starve Iran's economy?

Canada's hands were pretty tied on this, as they have an extradition treaty with the US. I don't think they can easily refuse a request to do so, and Canada likely figures that when trapped between the US and China, it's better to go along with the US since they are right next door.

@TigersTokyoDome

I fully agree. Whatever you think of China, this is an absurd extension of US jurisdiction.

It would be like China sanctioning the Philippines or Vietnam over the South China Sea dispute and then requesting Thailand (or any other country) arrest American tourists who's companies haven't complied with Chinese sanctions.

Another take on this is that trade talks between China and Canada broke down over human rights and China is showing plainly that it can neither accept nor understand the rule of law, so why would anyone agree to work with them? Step right up, sell your own people and ethics for a dollar.

There was much hope that after the Beijing 2008 games China would stop being bad but that was the wrong thing to do. It has only emboldened them to be worse to the point that anyone's laws are just so much quaint filler to their astounding corruption.

The attack on Canada is a term "kill the chicken to scare the monkey" trick. This is a term I've heard where China takes a smaller country and uses it as an example to thwart a larger one. Thus this is about scaring the USA.

If this means they are done with Canada, then we are the better for it.

this is an absurd extension of US jurisdiction.

Wow. No. It's called an extradition treaty. You might want to look those up. They exist in countries. Lots and lots of countries! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

She should have taken her vacation to avoid the arm of the law in a non extradition country as she had been apparently ignoring the USA since 2017 so she knew already they were after her. Her mistake or bad luck her flight changed in Vancouver

Given her destinations in South America, it could have been any of those countries too because they also likely have extradition treaties. Maybe they would be more willing to look the other way or China is used to dealing with bribes. She landed in the Dudley Do-Right of nations. Of course we take our treaties seriously. Kudos to the border patrol who arrested her.

I think it is time we had ....... "Canada on Strike"  Guy, Fwiend, Buddy.

I hope our friends will stand by us

@sf2k

Wow. No. It's called an extradition treaty. You might want to look those up. 

I was referring to the Iran sanctions themselves when I said it was an absurd extension of US jurisdiction, not the Canadian arrest.

Apparently they've picked up another Canadian for being some "national security threat".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/china-canada-diplomat-michael-kovrig-detention-latest

As much as this does put pressure on Canada, it's also guarantee's the Wests opinion of China drops further and further and further.

Hopefully it will drive action. There is so much that needs to be done.

Iran sanctions themselves 

That's what happens with extradition treaties regardless of cause. It's the diplomatic version of shoot first and ask questions later: Lawyer Edition. In your hypothetical example that's exactly what the USA can do if it felt like it and then have expectations from treaty members. That's why it's important to elect non-imbeciles. All we can do as a treaty nation is follow the rules and can't cherry pick which ones we think are relevant. Since it's a non-governmental situation it can only be resolved in the USA

 Her mistake or bad luck her flight changed in Vancouver

Yes. That was her mistake if the US was after her. I don't understand how another media source said that she has 7 passports, including Chinese. How is that possible since Chinese law forbids it? You get another passport from a different country and you automatically lose your Chinese citizenship.

I see the situation like this: you ask your neighbor to catch a "thief" who just stole your cell phone. The thief is caught but then his friends show up and start going after your neighbor. So far you have neither thanked him or have offered any support for his current situation. Now you are going to ask that same neighbor to turn the thief over to you so you can deal with him. On top of that you have spent the last two years belittling him as well.

Hmmm.

Basically it's a classic case of wanting the cake and eat it too.

Huawei wanting US made parts did not want to defy the US but also wanted to do business with Iran so they do deal through a paper company trying to circumvent the sanction hoping the US will not notice enabling them to keep on purchasing US made parts but the US government got wihff of it and apprehends the CFO who was the mastermind developing this scheme.

Basically Huawei had two choices do business with Iran and go about without US made parts of comply the US sanction but they tried to be smart and go for the third option that completely backfired on them.

So why does Chinese business have to sanction their own trade with Iran? 

Because Huawei have got subsidiaries and other operations in the USA. If you want to do business in a country, you follow their laws.

Also, some of the institutions she's accused of defrauding are believed to be American.

She flew to Canada on her way to South America because she knew very well that going to the US would get her arrested. She knows very well that what she and her company have been doing was illegal.

Meng Wanzhou has houses in Canada, so she is a frequent visitor to Canada, so it does question the timing of this request by the US, why now, straight after Trumps meeting with Xi Jinping. I think Trump and the rest of the inmates of the WH Asylum thought they need some extra pressure to put on China, that seems to be the way Trump operates. I hope this back fires and Meng Wanzhou gets her freedom back, problem though, leaves Canada in a bad light, a lackey to the US.

I see the situation like this: you ask your neighbor to catch a "thief" who just stole your cell phone. The thief is caught but then his friends show up and start going after your neighbor.

Your analogy would be perfect if instead of stealing a cell phone, the person you were asking your neighbour to catch had simply sold their cell phone to someone who you didn't like.

You get another passport from a different country and you automatically lose your Chinese citizenship.

Are you sure you've understood that correctly?

Are these people joking?

This is a basic example 101 on how both China and the US want others to do as they are told, while China and the US believe they can do whatever they want and direct others to do their bidding. They can interfere in the rule of law of insignificant countries (all countries other than their own) and expect every nation to believe whatever their (china and US) governments say. They both believe the only relevant laws are their own. They intend make everyone in the world conform with their laws of face the consequences. Canada should follow its procedures and laws and remind both China and the US that they will not be coerced by any nation, and that its laws are to be respected.

The US and China have both acted horribly in this matter. The world is taking notes on you both!

Canada still has to follow its own laws. Essentially, Canada signed an extradition treaty with the US.

When you sign an extradition treaty with another country, that means you have to follow your own laws regarding that treaty. That means Country A can extradite a suspect to Country B if Country B submits an extradition request. But in return, that also means Country B can extradite a suspect to Country A if Country A submits an extradition request.

Canada is simply following its own laws regarding the extradition treaty that they signed. If they sign into a treaty, then they have to follow their own laws regarding it. They cannot ignore their own laws because then, that means the government is above the law.

China is holding 2 Canadians hostage now, plus 2 America's from an earlier matter.

If this keeps on going, Foreign Nationals will probably be advised to leave China, along with Money etc. The US should freeze all US assets belonging to Chinese Persons of interest, and block Chinese access to the Capital Markets, then lets see what happens.

Moral of the story for Communist PRC : follow the rule of law and do not do business with Iran, which is a noted sponsor of terror. If PRC keep doing business with evil Iran expect many more PRC businessman to be arrested all over the world.

Just as I predicted on a previous thread. China has a very different concept of the rule of law to that understood by the majority of the rest of the world. In China the law is what ever the Comunist party says it is, so the rule of law just means the rule of the Chinese Comunist Party. So they see no problem in arresting a random individual to achieve a political end as for them there is no separation between the law, judiciary and the will of the Party.

Every country, company and individual must balance their greed against the potential outcome of dealing, being sent or choosing to visit China.

Your country will not be able to do a damn thing to help you once you are in their hands, not even the USA.

So why does Chinese business have to sanction their own trade with Iran?

Chinese businesses do not have to follow sanctions, but there are repercussions - like no more business with or access to the USA. Being caught lying to US businesses in an attempt to get around US sanctions caused the issue. It isn't the first Chinese company caught. ZTE is another.

Which is the more important market? Iran or USA? Pick.

Chinese business culture is to try to get away with everything they can and hope not to be caught. They hope the Chinese govt doesn't notice when they violate local laws too.

She got caught and this time it will likely end with 2-5 yrs in a US prison. It will be a nicer prison in the USA, but still a prison, so ... no golf.

If the ties between the shell company and Huawei are proven, then it is time to block Huawei from doing business in the USA and block access to any US company products. Huawei will be stuck with the old Cisco router code they stole to continue their business. https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/cisco-subnet/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html

But Huawei did it, they know it, we know and Cisco knows it.

Huawei also got caught stealing Motorola trade secrets.

Both Motorola and Cisco cases were settled privately. Huawei paid, a bunch.

"I am proud of Huawei, I am proud of my motherland," Meng said in a post on Chinese social media after her release.

Oh no, there is no connection between Huawai and the Chinese government. None at all...

China demands respect, but yet they do not respect other countries' law and order. Talk about speaking from both sides of the mouth. Respect has to be earned not given. Money cannot buy respect or even class.

As soon as there is another country that has the same GDP or even close to the same GDP as China, I doubt other countries would even bother with them.

"I am proud of Huawei, I am proud of my motherland,"

Probably only those who grew up there.

She's out on bail, at one of her Vancouver homes with her son. She's wearing a tracking device that she can't take off; if she tried to do that, she'd be re-arrested and not given bail. My government (Canada) is staying out of it - we place a much higher dividend on the impartiality of our justice system than the US does. We don't elect our judges, and they're not appointed by politicians; their placement on any bench level is merit-based, period. I have a lot more faith in that, than I do in either the US or Chinese system. In fact, I can see BC's Supreme Court removing the tracking device and saying she's free to go wherever she pleases. And I'd love to see that shoved in Trump's ugly face.

TrevorPeace - I have faith in the Canadian justice system for handling Canadian criminals. I'm worried that Canada isn't prepared for some of the nastier people and white-collar criminals in the world.

But Canada has the ball. They will ensure the charges are substantiated. Showing the world how China and Chinese multi-national companies are being less-than-honest in the world is important.

Trump should have remained silent on this.

My wife and I made a bet that she will go to the nick in the US. My wife says no, because she is rich and she can buy her way out of jail time. I told her that even though she may be rich, it won't matter, since the US will enforce the law as part of their extradition with Canada. I hope I win.

I am amazed she is fighting the extradition. It would be a lot easier to buy her way out of it in the USA. Provided Canada does not cave to judicial kidnapping and blackmail.