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Trump hails judge's ruling against Obamacare as 'great'

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The developed world's worst healthcare system is about to get even worse.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

The developed world's worst healthcare system is about to get even worse.

WRONG! You libs don't get that anything Obama did was bad and must be undone. Never mind that more people had access to health insurance and insurers could no longer deny newborns coverage based on pre-existing conditions in the womb.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

“Judge” O’Conner is an embarasment to the federal judiciary. His results oriented decision is partisan garbage and he needs to resign if he cannot take his job and profession seriously. These laws are far too important to the country and to the lives of Americans for O’Conner to cavalierly pitch them out for his political agenda. The fact he has life tenure and federal health coverage I am sure made his decision much easier.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

What's that? If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. I thought only Trump lied...

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

I thought only Trump lied...

Nope. Just a lot more than everybody else.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

This may actually increase support for the ACA - this is Republicans taking health care away from those who most need it - and as we've seen since 2010, they can't agree on any replacement.

What amazes me is this suit was brought by southern states where health care is needed most - another example of the Trump cultists blindly doing things that hurt them the most...

11 ( +12 / -1 )

The U.S. for-profit health care system is going to be even more lethal. Already medicines and hospitalization are the most expensive in the world. It will be interesting to read provincial “Judge” O’Conner’s argument of why Affordable Care Act is “unconstitutional.” Welcome to the USA, where one right-wing “judge” can take away the health care you might be able to afford and slowly (or quickly) kill you in the process.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

What's that? If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. I thought only Trump lied...

Amen! It's not like us conservatives only have one Obama lie to point to whilst dirty libs have hourly Trump lies to point to. Har! Smh.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Trum's tweet made me laugh:

As I predicted all along, Obamacare has been struck down as an UNCONSTITUTIONAL disaster! Now Congress must pass a STRONG law that provides GREAT healthcare and protects pre-existing conditions. Mitch and Nancy, get it done!

First, "Mitch" is leader of minority party in the senate. Shouldn't he have said "McConnel"?

Second, the GOP did try to replace Obamacare once with what turned out to be the most unpopular piece of major legislation in the modern era ad have been mum about it since.

This is typical Trump: Thrusting the dirty work on others. Dems won't fall for this. If the Supremes uphold this ruling and millions become uninsured, guess who Americans will blame. (Well, most of them - there'll always be the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!" type.)

5 ( +6 / -1 )

That would be a political victory for Republicans, but it would also likely strip millions of Americans of their health coverage, a policy problem for which Republicans have offered no clear solution.

It never ceases to amaze me that in America Republican politicians campaign on taking away your healthcare and their looney supporters cheer them on like village idiots.  This would cause universal outrage in civilised countries.  And this ruling - which has little hope of being upheld (insanity in print as on expert professor on health care put it) - is actually about the worst thing Trump needs right now.  The mid-terms showed clearly that health care is top of voters concerns.  Trump may publicly say this is a "great' outcome but in reality he must be thinking this is the last thing I need after the last few weeks I've been through.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It all comes down to pre-existing conditions.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Unconstitutional. Not speculation, but an actual ruling from a judge.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

@Superlib - I agree with you 1,000%. I am liberal and I am for a national/single-payer like health system.

Unfortunately in this case my opinion (regardless how I feel about this issue) is the judge is correct. The law is forcing people to buy a product from a private company. They tried to get around this by claiming the health care purchase (from a private company) was a tax, which was weak. The Affordable Care Act (I do not like using the term "Obama care" as lobbyists contributed greatly to this legislation) also drove up insurance costs for small businesses which really hurt them.

The quality of care in the U.S. is very high and the system is technologically advanced but the system leaves too many people behind....

and...what SuperLib pointed out is one of the most brutal aspects of the U.S. system.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

“Judge” O’Conner is an embarasment to the federal judiciary. His results oriented decision is partisan garbage and he needs to resign if he cannot take his job and profession seriously.

Which specific part of the ruling do you disagree with and on what legal basis? Just because healthcare is a desirable outcome doesn't mean that the judiciary can simply ignore a law that they find to be unconstitutional. I'm surprised that you would go as far as attacking the judge personally. It's very Trump-esque of you.

The fact he has life tenure and federal health coverage I am sure made his decision much easier.

Lifetime appointments ensure the independent judiciary which you said was "the bedrock principle of America's Rule of Law". Without it, judges and would be subject to outrage mobs trying to get them fired.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Republican States filing suit against the ACA:

Wisconsin, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia, Texas, and by the governors of Maine and Mississippi.

States with worst health care in US:

Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-us-states-with-the-worst-health-care.html

Just amazing - Republicans who govern the worst states in the US for health care, suing to take insurance away from those who most need the poor health care provided by their states....

This is today's Republican Party - Reagan would be appalled....

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Which specific part of the ruling do you disagree with and on what legal basis?

Let's wait for the ruling if a more senor court then we can read to our hearts content. In the meantime this is nothing significant.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

“Judge” O’Conner is an embarasment to the federal judiciary. His results oriented decision is partisan garbage and he needs to resign if he cannot take his job and profession seriously.

I disagree, I think the judge was magnanimous in this ruling.It was totally unconstitutional, the entire ACA was a farce that was shoved on people like stuffing a sausage, the entire promises that were made, particularly the one that Obama said, if you like your doctor you can keep it was a complete lie.

These laws are far too important to the country and to the lives of Americans for O’Conner to cavalierly pitch them out for his political agenda. The fact he has life tenure and federal health coverage I am sure made his decision much easier.

To force people to take something they don’t want? They couldn’t get enough young people to sign into the exchange and because of that the premiums skyrocketed as younger people don’t need or use health insurance so much. Glad they got rid of the mandate, glad that this judge did the right thing. The Democrats completely got greedy and overreached when they decided to overhaul the entire system that didn’t need to be overhauled. Had the Democrats worked to fix the system for 22 million people that didn’t have insurance, it would have been a noble gesture, but this...unacceptable. People should never be forced into buying something they don’t want or need. The socialist cradle arms failed again.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

Unconstitutional. Not speculation, but an actual ruling from a judge.

And, since the ruling was in our favor (conservatives'), the judge obviously wasn't an activist or biased. Am I right? Har! ROFL!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

In know what is really behind the judge’s ruling? It is not the Constitution but Big Pharma. Medical care and medicine in the US is the most expensive in the world. In a word: the U.S. for-profit medical industry is corrupt, whether private or public.

In Japan we have socialized medicine for all it intents. Japan is ruled by conservatives. But even the rabidly reactionary and corrupt Japanese politician would not dare to damage our health care system.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I disagree, I think the judge was magnanimous in this ruling.It was totally unconstitutional, the entire ACA was a farce that was shoved on people like stuffing a sausage, the entire promises that were made, particularly the one that Obama said, if you like your doctor you can keep it was a complete lie.

I couldn't agree more! Bass4Funk, Esquire speaks more truth! Give em hell, Bass!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Bass: Did you read the full opinion?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

To force people to take something they don’t want?

It's so funny Trump people say this then they come to Japan and are forced into paying into the National healthcare system. But what do you do if you go to the States and you have a major health emergency that no way you can ever pay for?

What do you do?

See ya States! Just walk out that door. DO NOT pay and DO NOT give them your ID. NEVER give them your social security tax number. Because even if you have health insurance you are still getting screwed with that $10,000 deductible.

Glad they got rid of the mandate

And how is that mandate working in Japan? Also, there is the mandate of Medicare.

The socialist cradle arms failed again.

Old people's medicare

Democrats worked to fix the system for 22 million people

How exactly? What is TrumpCare?

if you like your doctor you can keep it was a complete lie.

Trump care was claimed to be better and cheaper. And costs are going up.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I disagree, I think the judge was magnanimous in this ruling.It was totally unconstitutional, the entire ACA was a farce that was shoved on people like stuffing a sausage, the entire promises that were made, particularly the one that Obama said, if you like your doctor you can keep it was a complete lie.

I'm sick and tired of Republicans repeating this falsehood - when President Obama made that statement the ACA was still being developed and the intent was for everyone to keep their Dr if they wanted. But the obstructionist Republicans refused any cooperation with the ACA - not because they disagreed with it, just as McConnell stated when Obama won - "we won't cooperate with him on anything...

The reason a small percentage of people can't keep their Dr is the fault of the Republican obstructionists.

Now as we've seen above, even though they govern the top 10 worst states for health care, the want to take away insurance from those poor folks. Disgraceful.

With the current Great Orange Fibber in Chief making on average 5 lies per day (over 7,000 now) - keep the lying accusations to yourself.

And as for when this gets to the Supreme Court, did you see Kavanaugh voted with the Liberals last week?

*
8 ( +8 / -0 )

Above: for “in know” read “You know.” I think I might need a little health care to get rid of typoitis.

Thoughts that might interest Americans from my personal experiences with health care in Japan.

You have a health card that let’s you in practically anywhere. Long waits are the exception. The worst I’ve seen was at a private clinic that refused to have appointments. It was first come, first served. I changed to a public hospital and what took hours changed to minutes.

Whether you go to a private or public hospital, meds are generally not expensive. My fee for seeing a doctor (about two or three dollars) is less than what I pay for taxi fare.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@lincolnman

I am personally for a single payer system and yes this is a politically charged argument. I share many of your views toward Trump and the Republican Party (as well as the Democrat party..)

However there were many claims made by Obama which were simply not true. One of the other claims was that premiums would go down by $2,500/year for an average family of four. The premiums have actually increased dramatically.

@Kabuki

I am an American and I use the Japanese system. I am agree with your sentiment...the system in Japan is pretty good (not perfect). Most of what you say is true however there are cases where I could not avoid the long wait. The cost issue is pretty dramatic. I remember when the co-pay was increased to 30% and my Japanese friends thought that was dramatic....As an American I would share with them what the cost differences between the U.S. and Japan to try to ease the pain.

The Japanese system is graduated such that the premiums are increased based on income, which I have no issue with. The U.S. insurance system relies on tax breaks to accomplish this.

The U.S. system is flawed and the Affordable Care Act was also very flawed. All other developed nations in the world have a health care system much better than the U.S. (ACA or not)

1 ( +2 / -1 )

With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy;

If you are a poor white factory worker, who lost your job because of the Republican President's tariffs, and no longer have employer provided health care insurance...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/factory-workers-lose-jobs-as-steel-tariffs-put-business-in-crisis-mode/

And your Republican Governor just sued so you would lose your Obamacare insurance...

So now you have no health insurance for you or your family, and you live in one of the worst Republican governed states for health care in the nation...

And you still wear a MAGA hat....

You might be a Trump supporter - and a moron....

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Really, what's up with these out-of-control judges?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

In the bizzaro world the GOP has created, finding the mandate illegal might be the best thing for American healthcare as the millions suddenly locked out of insurance would act as an incentive for a single-payer system, which many had advocated from the beginning. Medicare for all! - the insurance companies are going to love this.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I am personally for a single payer system and yes this is a politically charged argument. I share many of your views toward Trump and the Republican Party (as well as the Democrat party..)

However there were many claims made by Obama which were simply not true. One of the other claims was that premiums would go down by $2,500/year for an average family of four. The premiums have actually increased dramatically.

Tokyo Engr

You're quite right - the ACA is far from perfect - but my assessment is that is because Republicans refused to participate in drafting the legislation at all. And that was at the direction of the Republican Senate and House leaders - many individual Republicans wanted to make it a bi-partisan effort, but were denied by their leadership. So instead of a comprehensive law, the Democrats had to push through what they could. It has significantly helped those on the lower end of the scale, who need it most. But it does require fixing - the Republicans refused to do that too. Then they failed to come up with a replacement.

I am an American and I use the Japanese system. I am agree with your sentiment...the system in Japan is pretty good (not perfect). Most of what you say is true however there are cases where I could not avoid the long wait. The cost issue is pretty dramatic. I remember when the co-pay was increased to 30% and my Japanese friends thought that was dramatic....As an American I would share with them what the cost differences between the U.S. and Japan to try to ease the pain.

The Japanese system is graduated such that the premiums are increased based on income, which I have no issue with. The U.S. insurance system relies on tax breaks to accomplish this.

The U.S. system is flawed and the Affordable Care Act was also very flawed. All other developed nations in the world have a health care system much better than the U.S. (ACA or not)

I also use the Japanese Health Care system - even without a health card, the cost is significantly cheaper than in the US - because the Japanese government caps prices. Even those with the lowest incomes can afford a visit to the hospital.

That was the intent of the ACA - let's get all politicians to work together, rather than posture, to fix the ACA so those most vulnerable can get the care they need.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I am personally for a single payer system

Obama tried that with the Public Option and Republicans shot it down. Also, there was a bill to raise compensation for Drs. accepting Medicaid and the same party shot it down.

I remember when the co-pay was increased to 30% and my Japanese friends thought that was dramatic

The co-pay caps off at around 60,000 yen for serious cases (monthly). Also, some employers in Japan offer extra insurance that makes the co-pay below 30%. I know one company that has max co pays of 3,000 yen per month as a benefit.

Most of what you say is true however there are cases where I could not avoid the long wait.

I know cases in Japan where people got heart surgery the same day.

One of the other claims was that premiums would go down by $2,500/year for an average family of four. The premiums have actually increased dramatically.

Because Obama wanted to get rid of those junk policies, so the better quality ones that still existed meant they were expensive. But again, look at the party that refused the Public option and raising compensation for Medicaid.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Did you read the full opinion?

Opinion? Huh?

I'm sick and tired of Republicans repeating this falsehood

I’m sick and tired of Democrats peddling that crap ACA is just the most awesome healthcare on the planet, it’s crap, nothing more and nothing less. If you don’t have money, it might be an acceptable healthcare to have, I guess.

when President Obama made that statement the ACA was still being developed and the intent was for everyone to keep their Dr if they wanted. *

But they couldn’t, that’s the result.

But the obstructionist Republicans refused any cooperation with the ACA -

Why would they put their John Hancock that they knew was faulty, wrong and unconstitutional. This is another reason why I’m glad the courts turned conservative, Democrats usually can’t get anything through legislation, this is why they need to courts to help them funnel through so much of their crap or by executive order.

not because they disagreed with it, just as McConnell stated when Obama won - "we won't cooperate with him on anything...

No, and if it helps liberals feel better, that sunshine of a Senator Harry Reid shoved over 320 GOP legislations into his drawer and wouldn’t even bring it to the floor, so this myth that the Democrats tried to cooperate is a complete ruse.

The reason a small percentage of people can't keep their Dr is the fault of the Republican obstructionists.

No, it’s because the Democrats for all their intentions noble or sneaky came up with a horrible crappy system, so crappy, most young people didn’t want it, even the cost of the premiums were way too high for young people, so to keep the thing afloat, they passed that on to the rest of the people, most young people paid the fine and thank god rhe GOP got rid of that mandate.

Now as we've seen above, even though they govern the top 10 worst states for health care, the want to take away insurance from those poor folks. Disgraceful.

What? Come again?

With the current Great Orange Fibber in Chief making on average 5 lies per day (over 7,000 now) - keep the lying accusations to yourself.

The Democrats when they shoved this crap on us.

And as for when this gets to the Supreme Court, did you see Kavanaugh voted with the Liberals last week?

As for the Supreme Court Kavanaugh said this when it comes to Obamacare...

http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/03/brett-kavanaugh-said-obamacare-unprecedented-unlawful/

We shall see how that plays out in the coming future, depending on how the complaint is filed and if it’s constitutional or not.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Obamacare needed fixes/changes, but the GOP refused to participate beyond killing the whole thing. And they are too broken as a party to come up with their own replacement.

So, here we are.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Obamacare needed fixes/changes, but the GOP refused to participate beyond killing the whole thing. And they are too broken as a party to come up with their own replacement.

So, here we are.

Well, at least they are clearly showing the people that they don't care about them.

Not that it matters with all the Gerrymandering and vote suppression. And the broken system overall.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

No, it’s because the Democrats for all their intentions noble or sneaky came up with a horrible crappy system

What's Trumps? How about the idea of just not paying your medical bill in case you go to the States and you have a medical emergency.

it’s crap

and TrumpCare is what?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

and TrumpCare is what?

It's what he outlined during the election. Better, does more, for cheaper, with more people ensured. You know, the unicorn of Health Care.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

When a friend explained that drugs were sold at her hospital where she worked in the US at a 3,000% mark-up, I knew the system was broken.

Hardly surprising that the USA has the worst health outcomes of any developed nation and costs more.

If Trump has his way, it will get worse.

No one who has lived under the healthcare systems of most other developed nations would want to exchange it for the USA's.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Opinion? Huh?

Oh, given you are a lawyer, I assumed you knew that a ruling from a judge is called an opinion. My mistake.

I’m sick and tired of Democrats peddling that crap ACA is just the most awesome healthcare on the planet, it’s crap, nothing more and nothing less. If you don’t have money, it might be an acceptable healthcare to have, I guess.

Literally no one has claimed the ACA is the most awesome healthcare, so you seem to be sick and tired of the crap you are peddling. Smh. ROFL! Kudos!

Why would they put their John Hancock that they knew was faulty, wrong and unconstitutional. This is another reason why I’m glad the courts turned conservative, Democrats usually can’t get anything through legislation, this is why they need to courts to help them funnel through so much of their crap or by executive order.

This literally has no basis in reality.

No, and if it helps liberals feel better, that sunshine of a Senator Harry Reid shoved over 320 GOP legislations into his drawer and wouldn’t even bring it to the floor, so this myth that the Democrats tried to cooperate is a complete ruse.

Nope. You're clearly confusing giving the GOP what it wants with cooperating. This is a result of your hyperpartisanship.

No, it’s because the Democrats for all their intentions noble or sneaky came up with a horrible crappy system, so crappy, most young people didn’t want it, even the cost of the premiums were way too high for young people, so to keep the thing afloat, they passed that on to the rest of the people, most young people paid the fine and thank god rhe GOP got rid of that mandate.

Another pRtisan rant with no basis in reality. I see a pattern developing.

What? Come again?

What part of that clearly written post did you not understand?

The Democrats when they shoved this crap on us.

You never bitch when republicans shove crap on us . . . Just admit your a partisan of the hyper order. ROFL! HAR! Smh.

We shall see how that plays out in the coming future, depending on how the complaint is filed and if it’s constitutional or not.

Conservative judges don't rule according to the constitution, they rule according to their politics. Or, would you have us believe that only liberal judges rule according to their politics?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Obamacare needed fixes/changes,

It needed to be chucked and maybe ratified for only the ones or about 22 million that needed it that had no other way or choice, but for the rest of the country, it’s not something they wanted.

but the GOP refused to participate beyond killing the whole thing.

Absolutely!

And they are too broken as a party to come up with their own replacement.*

So, here we are.

Well, I can’t argue with you on that one, but what I will say is this, the Government wants to get their hands into the government healthcare business, but because the Democrats started that ball rolling, under this administration they promised to repeal and replace and because conservatives don’t know anything about government funded healthcare insurance, they botched it, they had many good ideas, but they couldn’t come up with a unifying consensus pass an acceptable plan that is low in cost and cover pre-existing conditions.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

but the GOP refused to participate beyond killing the whole thing.

Absolutely!

Heh, here you are acknowledging obstruction, while just minutes ago in another thread you were whining about it.

You've had to defend too many opposing positions at this point in time, that you can't really say anything without contradicting something you've said at some other time. Give a man enough rope....

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Oh, given you are a lawyer, I assumed you knew that a ruling from a judge is called an opinion. My mistake. 

No worries.

Literally no one has claimed the ACA is the most awesome healthcare,

No, Obama kept telling the country over and over again how good this garbage was, videos don’t lie..

This literally has no basis in reality.

Actually, it does and very much so, the Democrats accused the Republicans of being obstructionists, but at the same time Reid wouldn’t allow any Republican legislation get to the Senate floor to even be considered and liberals wondered why the Republicans felt like telling the Dems to go and jump in a lake.

Nope. You're clearly confusing giving the GOP what it wants with cooperating.

Then the Democrats in Congress don’t need to complain, they just need to keep quiet..

You never bitch when republicans shove crap on us . . .

That’s not true at all, but the Democrats use and do more things involving the government and burdening the already overburdened tax payer, I have a fundamental problem with that, especially with the provisions they want everyone to pay into.

Just admit your a partisan of the hyper order. ROFL! HAR! Smh.

I’m not.

Conservative judges don't rule according to the constitution,

Kavanaugh does which is why we had such a contentious and out of control hearings to get him confirmed and why was that? Because he was a constitutionalist that every Democrat tried to bury and we know why and how it all started and ended, foiling once again a political assassination hit job, they missed.

they rule according to their politics. Or, would you have us believe that only liberal judges rule according to their politics?

If not, the Democrats and liberals wouldn’t have had that meltdown they’re having now that the Supreme Court is now conservative.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

I’m sick and tired of Democrats peddling that crap ACA is just the most awesome healthcare on the planet, it’s crap, nothing more and nothing less. If you don’t have money, it might be an acceptable healthcare to have, I guess.

11.6 million more people have health care now because of the ACA…that’s progress instead of obstruction…

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/health/obamacare-health-insurance-numbers-nchs.html

*when President Obama made that statement the ACA was still being developed and the intent was for everyone to keep their Dr if they wanted. **

But they couldn’t, that’s the result.

They couldn’t because of McConnell’s obstructionism – he refused to allow any Republicans to participate…”Block Obama at all costs” – Disgraceful…

But the obstructionist Republicans refused any cooperation with the ACA -

Why would they put their John Hancock that they knew was faulty, wrong and unconstitutional. This is another reason why I’m glad the courts turned conservative, Democrats usually can’t get anything through legislation, this is why they need to courts to help them funnel through so much of their crap or by executive order.

The wall, repeal and replace, etc….

not because they disagreed with it, just as McConnell stated when Obama won - "we won't cooperate with him on anything...

No, and if it helps liberals feel better, that sunshine of a Senator Harry Reid shoved over 320 GOP legislations into his drawer and wouldn’t even bring it to the floor, so this myth that the Democrats tried to cooperate is a complete ruse.

Another dodge.  https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

The reason a small percentage of people can't keep their Dr is the fault of the Republican obstructionists.

No, it’s because the Democrats for all their intentions noble or sneaky came up with a horrible crappy system, so crappy, most young people didn’t want it, even the cost of the premiums were way too high for young people, so to keep the thing afloat, they passed that on to the rest of the people, most young people paid the fine and thank god rhe GOP got rid of that mandate.

It wasn't so sneaky, horrible, or crappy when Republican Governor Romney implemented the same thing in Massachusetts...

Now as we've seen above, even though they govern the top 10 worst states for health care, the want to take away insurance from those poor folks. Disgraceful.

What? Come again?

See my 10:30 AM post above…

With the current Great Orange Fibber in Chief making on average 5 lies per day (over 7,000 now) - keep the lying accusations to yourself.

The Democrats when they shoved this crap on us.

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

And as for when this gets to the Supreme Court, did you see Kavanaugh voted with the Liberals last week?

As for the Supreme Court Kavanaugh said this when it comes to Obamacare...

But last week he voted with the Liberals…

We shall see how that plays out in the coming future, depending on how the complaint is filed and if it’s constitutional or not.

And Trump can explain to 11 million Americans why he is taking their health insurance away...

Maybe he can replace it with Trump Care - made with the same promise as "Mexico will pay for the wall"...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

No, Obama kept telling the country over and over again how good this garbage was, videos don’t lie..

Shifting the goalposts here. Your original claim wasn't about 'how good' it was, your original claim was:

I’m sick and tired of Democrats peddling that crap ACA is just the most awesome healthcare on the planet

Once again, you prove yourself entirely inconsistent, and unable to even follow the thread of your own conversation.

Then you whine about liberals. hah.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

No, Obama kept telling the country over and over again how good this garbage was

What's Trump care?

the Republicans of being obstructionists

Yes, and many are under arrest and none of the Clintons are.

involving the government and burdening the already overburdened tax payer

How should Americans pay for healthcare since under Trump medical costs keep going up? Now about not paying and walking out the door when your hospital treatment is finished?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Shifting the goalposts here. Your original claim wasn't about 'how good' it was, your original claim was:

No, I just merely stated what the crap is.

Once again, you prove yourself entirely inconsistent

No, I’ve been consistent and I believed the ACA to be as I have consistently and continuously stated.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

No, I just merely stated what the crap is.

No, you shifted the goalposts as Stranger succinctly demonstrated with your own words.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

No, you shifted the goalposts as Stranger succinctly demonstrated with your own words

Sorry, No, I’ve been consistent and I believed the ACA to be as I have consistently and continuously stated and stand by that, nice try,

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"It all comes down to pre-existing conditions."

it doesn't all come down to if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, then?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

No, I’ve been consistent

Sure you have:

I’m sick and tired of Democrats peddling that crap ACA is just the most awesome healthcare on the planet

Suddenly became:

Obama kept telling the country over and over again how good this garbage was, 

Yeah, you’re consistent. Right.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Suddenly became:

No, been from day one, now watch the Democrats raise the premiums on that garbage again. Besides, it’s getting harder in some States so many jumped out of the exchange. Not only can you not keep your doctor, you’ll be paying for crap and have limited choices of doctors you can see. I’m just happy I will never have to take that crap.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

The Republican health plan before Obamacare was that there should be no health care plan. That is the plan that they would like to reinstall, no matter what they say. The only public spending Republicans support is spending on weapons. Public spending to help or cure or feed people is not is their genotype. There used to be some generous Republicans who would donate for these causes privately, but these folks have mostly died out.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

you’ll be paying for crap

It's TrumpCare now. What is TrumpCare? What is he going to do?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Serrano: it doesn't all come down to if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, then?

Thanks for your thoughtful contribution to the discussion.

Bass: Democrats use and do more things involving the government and burdening the already overburdened tax payer, I have a fundamental problem with that

No, you have a fundamental problem paying for things you don’t like, just like everyone else. But if it’s increasing military spending, increasing the deficit, handouts to the coal industry, etc, you have no problem at all pulling out the credit card so don’t pretend you are some kind of responsible voter worried about government spending. You just bring up sending for things you don’t like and ignore it for things you want.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Trump hails judge's ruling against Obamacare as 'great' - Headline

Remember this? "The Stupidity Of The American Voter Led Us To Hide Obamacare's True Costs From The Public." - Jonathan Gruber, Obamacare's architect.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/11/10/aca-architect-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-led-us-to-hide-obamacares-tax-hikes-and-subsidies-from-the-public/#642262267c05

Well then. Count Judge Reed O'Connor among many who weren't fooled, certainly together with the majority of Americans who had to swallow this crap.

President Trump is right. Perhaps at long last we can begin to actually fix the U.S. healthcare system. A good chance for Democrats to demonstrate they can work on a bipartisan basis on key issues.

(N.B. Republicans could not pass healthcare reform simply because 60 votes are needed in the Senate to enact legislation. In the process of denying Trump a win, the Dems couldn't care less about the American people.)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No, you have a fundamental problem paying for things you don’t like, just like everyone else.

And a lot of people didn’t like to waste money on the wretched ACA, thus the courts decision yesterday.

But if it’s increasing military spending,

Yes, I do worry about the survival of the nation and security as a whole, I sleep better with a strong military, another reason why I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat.

increasing the deficit, handouts to the coal industry, etc, you have no problem at all pulling out the credit card so don’t pretend you are some kind of responsible voter worried about government spending.

No one told the Democrats to screw with the healthcare system.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes, I do worry

Why? Trump is president. He will run the US as well as his casinos. No? Maybe Bill Gates should have been president instead? Perhaps he could run the US as well as Microsoft?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Frankly, it's a disgrace.

And anyway, the Republicans have NOTHING to replace the ACA. N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

People should never be forced into buying something they don’t want or need. 

Everyone with a pulse needs health insurance in some form or other.

burdening the already overburdened tax payer, I have a fundamental problem with that

Americans are already overburdened with a heath care system that is more expensive than any other developed country - and performs less well.

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

(P.18, scroll down to find the US ranked #37, barely ahead of Slovenia and Cuba.)

I’m just happy I will never have to take that crap.

Because you have the benefit of access to the Japanese social medicine system.

If the US constitution says that an attempt to give all Americans fair and affordable access to health care is unconstitutional, there would appear to be something very wrong with the constitution.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

And a lot of people didn’t like to waste money on the wretched ACA, thus the courts decision yesterday.

And this decision will most likely not survive the appeal to the Supreme Court. Review the case of the "National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius." How did that work out again?

No one told the Democrats to screw with the healthcare system.

Someone forgot to tell the Republicans that we actually need a healthcare system--and to this date, they have never put forth an actual plan.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Everyone with a pulse needs health insurance in some form or other.

That’s ok and I don’t mind if the Democrats would have worked to fix the system that admittedly needed to be overhauled for the 22 million that didn’t have it, they didn’t have to gut the entire system and screw with everyone else’s insurance and force people to buy into something they didn’t want or didn’t need. Sorry, I don’t want to carry the water for everyone else. I had an excellent plan before the last administration destroyed it.

Americans are already overburdened with a heath care system that is more expensive than any other developed country - and performs less well.

Mine didn’t and as a matter of fact, mine was better than what a lot of people get in places like Germany or Austria.

Because you have the benefit of access to the Japanese social medicine system.

But I don’t use it, never have, so I wouldn’t know. I go on base.

If the US constitution says that an attempt to give all Americans fair and affordable access to health care is unconstitutional, there would appear to be something very wrong with the constitution.

I don’t think so with all due respect and when the constitution was written, people didn’t have healthcare either. Look, all I’m saying is, I do feel for people that don’t have or can’t afford proper healthcare, but it should be a choice for the people that can afford it or that want their own personal physician, that’s all I’m saying.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

And this decision will most likely not survive the appeal to the Supreme Court. Review the case of the "National Federation of Independent Business v. Sebelius." How did that work out again?

I doubt it.

Someone forgot to tell the Republicans that we actually need a healthcare system--and to this date, they have never put forth an actual plan.

I agree, but not something that will financially overwhelm the tax payer, I’m glad of the ruling and I’m glad the got rid of the mandate. So as long as it comes off the comparable plan that is affordable and that can cover pre-existing conditions, and allow people to make the choice if they want the government run or if they want to seek out their own private insurance, if they can do that, I may be open to it.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Bass: buy into something they didn’t want or didn’t need

Sure, until they show up at the Emergency Room with no insurance and the cost burden gets placed on the system. This notion that we can trust people to accurately predict that they won’t need any medical coverage is absurd. They just aren’t paying for it is all.

I go on base.

Wait, are you on government run, government subsidized healthcare? So you whole angle is that you don’t want other people to have that?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Right wingers always want something for nothing, Super.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Trump's reversal of anything Obama without care really is blindsided. America's healthcare is a joke.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Right wingers always want something for nothing, Super

No, they just want you to work for it.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

the Japanese social medicine system.

But I don’t use it, never have, so I wouldn’t know. I go on base.

If you live in Japan you pay into the system whether you use it or not.

So you're happy to subsidise Japanese social medicine which you choose not to use, while yourself taking advantage of US government health care, but you want to deny American Average Joe the same thing you willingly support in Japan?

Since you keep telling us your income is way above average, you're also paying in way more than the Average Taro. And not using it? And that's OK in Japan but not in America? And you keep telling us how patriotic you are?

not something that will financially overwhelm the tax payer

Every other successful, quality social healthcare scheme costs significantly less than the American system. Why do you keep dragging up this 'financially overwhelm the taxpayer' fairy tale? A proper healthcare system would cost Americans substantially less, and cover everyone fairly.

when the constitution was written, people didn’t have healthcare

Like I said, there's something very wrong with the constitution. You've just agreed with me by admitting that it is woefully out of date and not fit for purpose in the 21st century.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

No, they just want you to work for it.

You’re half right. Right wingers want others o work for them and cream off the benefits, gaming the system for themselves. That’s why they make healthcare more expensive for millions while giving luxury tax cuts to the one percent.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And a lot of people didn’t like to waste money on the wretched ACA, thus the courts decision yesterday.

Wait. You previously claimed the decision was based on the constitution. Now, you're claiming it was based on people not wanting to pay for the ACA. Your initial claim is how the judicial system works. Your second claim was born out of your knee-jerk partisanship that causes you to feel you have to respond counter to anything a lib says.

HAAAAAR! Rofl! Oh my . . . Smh.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

But I don’t use it, never have, so I wouldn’t know. I go on base.

Hmmmm . . . Only service members - current or retired, contractors, and DoD employees have access to bases. RYou've claimed to be a journalist with 30 years experience and not to have been in the military. Also, you've claimed to live in Fukuoka, where there aren't any bases. Someone sure seems to be playing fast and loose with the truth. ROFL! Smh. Oh my . . . Har!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Let's see what an activist judge does. They disregard basic principals of law and apply their own "justice." A basic principal of law is that a judge must separate parts that are able to be separated without rendering the law unintelligible or inoperable. Just like a legal experts stated:

Timothy Jost, a health law expert and emeritus professor at Washington and Lee University School of Law in Virginia, said it was “silly” and “irresponsible” for O’Connor to find that the individual mandate could not be separated from the rest of the ACA. He said judges who find that portions of laws are invalid are required “to do as little damage as possible” to the rest of the law, and O’Connor had ignored that principle.

Jost noted that the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which will hear any appeal in the case, is considered the most conservative federal appeals court in the country. But,“O’Connor is so far off the reservation here that virtually any(appeals) panel will reverse him,” Jost said.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You’re half right. Right wingers want others o work for them

And liberals want to mooch off others, but the difference is, conservatives are creating work opportunity which is the way it should be and the liberals are penalizing and taking from those that want prosperity or as Obama stupidly said, spread the wealth.

and cream off the benefits, gaming the system for themselves.

Democrats own almost all the unions, that’s gaming the system as well, and?

That’s why they make healthcare more expensive for millions while giving luxury tax cuts to the one percent.

And the Democrats load provisions in and tax patients to the max in order to reap the benefits of that as well to increase more coverage, more exams, more cost, higher premiums, so they’re lining their pockets just as much. I’m sorry, just because Republicans believe in self-reliance doesn’t mean they don’t care, the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay or be made to pay for something they don’t or may not want to pay into.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So you're happy to subsidise Japanese social medicine which you choose not to use,

Not happy, I pay into it, but I don’t use it.

while yourself taking advantage of US government health care,

No, I pay, but I have my own doctor and have the coverage that’s right for me and pay only for me and not to support someone else.

but you want to deny American Average Joe the same thing you willingly support in Japan?

I never said that I wanted to deny anyone of anything, I said, that I do believe that the system needs to be overhauled for the 22 million Americans that did not have health insurance, but the entire system did not have to be overhauled for the entire country.

Since you keep telling us your income is way above average, you're also paying in way more than the Average Taro. And not using it? And that's OK in Japan but not in America?

Yes, because I get better healthcare.

And you keep telling us how patriotic you are?

110% bleed red, white and blue.

Every other successful, quality social healthcare scheme costs significantly less than the American system.

Not at the rates the premiums were going for us and remember, Europeans don’t mind paying higher taxes, I pay a lot already in taxes, I think the government doesn’t more of my money.

> Why do you keep dragging up this 'financially overwhelm the taxpayer' fairy tale? A proper healthcare system would cost Americans substantially less, and cover everyone fairly.

It’s not a fairytale, I spend significant time in the States a few times a year, you don’t.

Like I said, there's something very wrong with the constitution. You've just agreed with me by admitting that it is woefully out of date and not fit for purpose in the 21st century.

Ok, but it’s OUR constitution our way of life and as I have said before, I like it the way it is, the way it was written, we are not Europe, i don’t want my country to be like Europe and if I want anything from Europe, I go and I do, for sightseeing it’s great, but the basic core principles of it (the constitution) means everything to me and something I worship with great pride.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Ladies and gentlemen,

Welcome to your new TrumpCare brochure – please read the fine print (I mean the REALLY fine print)..

First, TrumpCare is brought to you by the most successful, most attractive, most intelligent, most honest, most truthful, most faithful …wait…strike that last one… businessman to ever walk the planet…

TrumpCare – a name you can trust - by the man that said;

“I’ll release my tax returns…”

“Mexico will pay for the wall….”

“My inauguration was bigger than Obama’s…”

How’s that for honesty….

TrumpCare is the cheapest, most comprehensive, pay for everything insurance you can ever get – believe us, believe us…

It covers……well, it doesn’t cover anything, but we give you a nice looking certificate – just like Trump University!

And with TrumpCare you get a deductible for those that are hair challenged – 50% off if you get your hair styled by a Veterinarian like Mr Trump…

Try TrumpCare now – purchase at any Trump Tower or at any street corner by a guy named Vinnie….

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"America's healthcare is a joke."

And yet we have all these people trying to get into Trump's America every day. Must be they don't care about healthcare.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

110% bleed red, white and blue.

Apart from wanting to nuke those pesky coastal cities and hating on the less well off, sure. Are you happy that millions could suffer greatly if the ACA is dumped?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

 I pay, but I have my own doctor and have the coverage that’s right for me

You said you went 'on base'?

Since you keep telling us your income is way above average, you're also paying in way more than the Average Taro. And not using it? And that's OK in Japan but not in America?

Yes, because I get better healthcare.

sigh. You get better health care by paying in through the nose to the Japanese system that you do not use?

It’s not a fairytale, I spend significant time in the States a few times a year

What does where you spend time have to do with the figures? It's a fact that the US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other developed country, in fact about twice as much as the average comparable country.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-since-1980-the-gap-has-widened-between-u-s-health-spending-and-that-of-other-countries___2018

At the same time it achieves less than average efficiency, slightly better than Cuba and Brunei Darussalam and way worse than Saudi Arabia and Colombia

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf (P18)

And at 69.1 American life expectancy is way below that of not only Japan (74.9) (whose healthcare service you pay into but for some strange reason do not use), but also that of other countries with proper social healthcare systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Ok,

= You agree that Yes, the American constitution is woefully outdated and not fit for purpose in the 21st century

the constitution) means everything to me and something I worship with great pride.*

You worship something you admit is a fossil? And you're proud of that total lack of discernment?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Because they changed the tax law so that there's no more penalty

With no penalty, there's no reason for requirement

Without requirement for everyone, premiums would go up for those who need it

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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