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U.S. government shutdown looms amid harsh immigration exchange

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By Richard Cowan and Susan Cornwell

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The GOP own every bit of this. Shut it down.

Why are American taxpayers being asked to pay for the Wall when Pres. Trump guaranteed that Mexico would pay for it?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Shut it down. Don't think I need any federal services for the next month or so.

It isn't like this is high tourist season at most national parks. Heck, I was a govt contractor during the 1996 shutdown. It was great that govt employees weren't allowed at work. The contractors had pay for a few months, so we kept working. For those days, we didn't get re-directed to any "emergency" and actually got stuff done.

Since then, federal impact to my life is only for international travel (passports and borders), visiting national parks, and paying taxes. Ah ... once I filed a complaint to the FCC about a broadcast TV station not having captions (required by law). Took a month to get the issue fixed and the TV station lied about the length of the outage (30+ days) and ZERO fine was mandated.

Shut it down.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Why are American taxpayers being asked to pay for the Wall when Pres. Trump guaranteed that Mexico would pay for it?

Especially since the American populace doesn't even want it.

Anyways, it is in the Democrats best interests to shut down the government. The Republicans did that, and they won the next election.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Repubs have a deal on the table, Dems won’t take it. So when the Senate votes to shut down the government and every Dem votes YES they own it.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Repubs have a deal on the table, Dems won’t take it. So when the Senate votes to shut down the government and every Dem votes YES they own it.

Keep telling yourself that, chief. GOP has house and senate, its on them. Can't blame minority dems for a crappy partisan deal. I'd walk away, too.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Nope needs 60 votes there are not 60 Repubs in the senate.. Although after voting against tax cuts and for shutting off services to citizens to force illegal immigrants to get special treatment, there might be 60 Republican Senators next term.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

there might be 60 Republican Senators next term.

Rofl Delusional. GoP support is at historic lows. Dems? Not so much.

We didn't want your garbage tax plan, and we don't want the garbage deal on the table.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Then don’t take the deal and own the results of your decision. It’s that simple. But don’t go around crying that there is no deal when there is.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I remember when the Republicans shut down the government as opposition, then blamed the democrats. Now they are shutting down the government as the leaders - and still blaming the democrats.

Seems that they just want to blame the democrats no matter what happens.

How has our country turned out like this?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Once again the Repubs need 60 votes to not shut down the government. They only have 51 members. So they do not have the ability to keep the government open if all Dems want it closed.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Damn Democrats, doing what we did. Damn them all to hell.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Once again the Repubs need 60 votes to not shut down the government. They only have 51 members. So they do not have the ability to keep the government open if all Dems want it closed

Then make a better deal, duh.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

It's not even a budget - it's a continuing resolution. The heavy lifting is kicked down the road.

Not sure whether it's good governance for the Dems to attach DACA to what's really an unrelated bill and suspect they'll back down - this despite the fact that Repubs do the same thing all the time. More pertinent is sequester. Repubs want increased military spending with no corresponding social spending, which would break the deal made a decade ago. That ain't gonna happen.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The GOP own every bit of this. Shut it down.

You're wrong on so many issues, but on this one, you are right. Doesn’t matter if the Weasley Democrats are the sole cause of the shutdown because we are talking about the federal government and people that work in it always blame the GOP the party that’s anti-government.

Why are American taxpayers being asked to pay for the Wall when Pres. Trump guaranteed that Mexico would pay for it?

Oh, but when tax dollars go to fund planned parenthood and other social programs, that’s ok?

Then make a better deal, duh.

Well, the Democrats are a stubborn bunch, can’t whip a dead horse.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

My guess is that they will pass the temporary spending measure.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Federal money funding social programs is completely unrelated to Trump guaranteeing multiple times that Mexico would pay for his wall. There is no reason to mention federal funding of social programs in relation to Trump's wall.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Yeah, one big stumbling block is the wall and since Trump couldn't get Mexico to pay for it now it's on the table for the American taxpayer.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I am a little confused. The House and Senate both have Republican majorities, yet they are saying if there is a government shutdown, it will be the fault of the Democrats?

Whenever Republicans blame anyone else for anything, you can infer that they are doing whatever that is, in spades. Especially true of graft, other criminal behavior, vote-rigging, collusion. It's an obfuscation technique they've perfected since the Bush regime.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I think the wall for DACA support is a good deal. We all know the wall is symbolic and won't really be built.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Repubs have a deal on the table, Dems won’t take it. whats that! we want $100billion for the wall and increased military spending or well kick out all the birther immigrants. Either way you look at it, its the Republicans who look like the selfish fools

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Well, the Democrats are a stubborn bunch, can’t whip a dead horse. well you know that horse was whipped to death when the Republicans shut down the government under Obama, whats good for the goose......

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So they do not have the ability to keep the government open if all Dems want it closed. No the Reps need to put forth a deal that is acceptable to the Dems, just like the Reps did to Obama. Shoes on the other foot now it seems. LOL

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Dagong Global Credit Rating (China) downgraded the USA to BBB+, (the same as Peru, Columbia ands Turkmenistan). they have $20 trillion national debt.

its just a matter of time for collapse and the great depression.

immigration is the scapegoat of choice.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

But don’t go around crying that there is no deal when there is. Theres a deal that acceptable to the Reps only, not the Dems , its called democratic negotiations, there fixed it for you

2 ( +3 / -1 )

its like a school playground, Rep you give me two cookies and Ill give you one, thats a good deal!? Dems No I want two cookies also. Rep sorry its 2 cookies to 1 or where not playing anymore, thats more than fair!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Republicans only need 60 votes because of Senate rules. If the Dems decide to shutdown the government, Repubs should change the rules and end the filibuster. Then no need to negotiate with Dems.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

If the Dems decide to shutdown the government, Repubs should change the rules and end the filibuster. Then no need to negotiate with Dems. yep and the Dems could have done that to the Reps last shutdown, no they believed on the democratic process and didnt want to turn America into a dictatorship by stacking the deck in their favor. So good luck getting that legislation changed. LOL

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The deportation Of Jorge Garcia was just plain vindictive, and served NO PURPOSE as far as security goes.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Not legislation - just a rule - can be changed by a simple majority vote in the Senate, as Harry Reid did when he changed it for judicial nominations.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Who says that the loser of an election is entitled to an equal deal or that they have any say in what is “acceptable” or not for them?

”elections have consequences”- Barack Obama.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Who says that the loser of an election is entitled to an equal deal or that they have any say in what is “acceptable” or not for them?

Common sense. The constitution. Senate rules.

What a pompous attitude.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"The Democrats want to shut down the Government over Amnesty for all and Border Security.

Will the voters reward the Democrats for choosing illegal aliens and shutting down government? Only time will tell.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The loser of an election is not even the issue here. The republicans and democrats that one elections and are in Congress is what this article is about. Stay on point.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So there are more republicans than Dems in the senate, house and White House so they get the better deal.

yeah really pompous, that’s exactly how I felt when obama said it to begin with as justification to do or not do whatever he wanted too. Our turn now.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

As Dick Durbin proved again, can’t have fair and honest negotiations with Dems without them taking private discussion to the media to try to get the upper hand.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

So there are more republicans than Dems in the senate, house and White House so they get the better deal.

But not enough to get 60 votes, so negotiate with dems to pick up some votes.

But clearly, you're not interested in that, are you?

> Our turn now.

Yeah, it is. How's it feel getting stone walled? Haha

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Who says that the loser of an election is entitled to an equal deal or that they have any say in what is “acceptable” or not for them?

No one. So why are the Republicans having so much troubles keeping the government running?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Because the Dems are trying to shut it down for all citizens just to get amnesty and future citizenship for illegal immigrants?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Not legislation - just a rule - can be changed by a simple majority vote in the Senate, as Harry Reid did when he changed it for judicial nominations. apart from being undemocratic the next Dem POTUS can bulldoze through changes that wipe away any changes that Trump trying to do now. Why do you think they havent done it already, because it can easily come back and bite you in the butt in the future just like the government closure that is looming now. Whatever unfair advantage the Reps put in place to further their ideals the Dems will do the same when they hold power again . Changing the rules whenever it suits you isnt a democracy its a dictatorship.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Will the voters reward the Democrats for choosing illegal aliens and shutting down government? Only time will tell. shutting down the government didnt seem to effect the Reps gaining the white house.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Who says that the loser of an election is entitled to an equal deal or that they have any say in what is “acceptable” or not for them? dido, didnt stop the Reps stonewalling Obama when they lost the election . Karma always catches up with you in the end. LOL

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The democrats are not trying to shut anything down, neither are the republicans. Both are trying to get what they believe is the best possible deal.

The repubs are holding out for funding for a wall Trump said would be paid for by Mexico. The Dems are holding out so children whose parents did wrong are not punished for their parents' actions.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The Dems are holding out so children whose parents did wrong are not punished for their parents' actions.

Maybe on planet Utopia. But in the real world, parents are responsible for their children, not the government.

The Dems are holding out so children whose parents who committed a crime are not punished for their parents' crimes.

Fixed it for ya.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

But in the real world, parents are responsible for their children, yes but children arent responsible for their parents actions, many birther children were born in the US raised in the US havent known any other life other than American how is it fair to kick them out for their parents illegal doings!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So there are more republicans than Dems in the senate, house and White House so they get the better deal.

So just eliminate the filibuster and the majority party can lock out the minority party in all decision making.

Then go for your next desire, which is to require Republican senators vote with Trump on all issues.

Then we will have a dictator with a rubber stamp Congress.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

But in the real world, parents are responsible for their children, yes but children arent responsible for their parents actions, many birther children were born in the US raised in the US havent known any other life other than American how is it fair to kick them out for their parents illegal doings!

It's not fair, but neither is the lottery system or chain migration, along with the border, we should have a merit based system where we can draw from the best qualified people that can contribute to our society rather than being a financial burden and can't bring anything to the table.

So just eliminate the filibuster and the majority party can lock out the minority party in all decision making.

That might come back to haunt the Dems one day.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yep, eliminating the filibuster will screw us all. But if Black has a problem with the election losers being heard, then that's his only solution.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's not fair, but neither is the lottery system or chain migration, well with that logic any child of an American citizen who sent to prison for serious crimes should also be deported to any country thatll accept them, after all prisoners lose their citizen rights once theyre in prison , so their children should have to take responsibility for their parents wrongs also.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is unknown whether I mmigrants are the financial burden conservatives claim they are. The studies are inconclusive when taken as a whole.

Of course, cherry picking the studies that bolster my point - Trump's $113 billion figure he got from Hannity - is what I'm going to do.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's not fair, but neither is the lottery system or chain migration, well with that logic any child of an American citizen who sent to prison for serious crimes should also be deported to any country thatll accept them,

OK, you lost me when you said, it's not fair...Look, It is a stupid thing to have a lottery system, that means anyone and I mean anyone with any kind of shady background can come in, that's not right and it should be eliminated as does the chain migration.

after all prisoners lose their citizen rights once theyre in prison , so their children should have to take responsibility for their parents wrongs also.

I don't live in the world of hypotheticals, I live in the world or reality and the majority of countries don't do this and neither should we. We don't need to have illegal aliens come in and disrespect our laws and think they can do whatever they want. You want to come to America, please come, provided you can bring something that would benefit the country and not be a burden to the system. I want people to come based on merit, we are not the Walmart of the world.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Those that receive visas through the lottery are vetted just like other documented immigrants. This means that anyone with a shady background can be admitted through the lottery system.

It strains the bounds of reasonableness to think the lottery visa system works like the money lottery. We chose your number! You can get on a plane tomorrow and come to the US without any sort of vetting! Ridiculous.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Those that receive visas through the lottery are vetted just like other documented immigrants. This means that anyone with a shady background can be admitted through the lottery system

It strains the bounds of reasonableness to think the lottery visa system works like the money lottery. We chose your number! You can get on a plane tomorrow and come to the US without any sort of vetting! Ridiculous.

Even Bernie doesn’t want it.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/358288-huckabee-sanders-suggests-theres-no-vetting-in-diversity-visa-lottery

https://cis.org/Testimony/Whats-Wrong-Visa-Lottery

In addition to creating administrative burdens, the lottery encourages illegal immigration. Consider the case of Hesham Mohamed Hedayet, who murdered Victoria Hen and Yaakov Aminov at Los Angeles International Airport on July 4, 2002. Mr. Hedayet overstayed a tourist visa in 1992 and before his tourist visa expired, he applied for asylum and then continued to live in the United States for a number of years as an illegal alien after his visa expired. Even after his asylum application was turned down in 1996, Mr. Hedayet stayed and lived here as an illegal alien.

His wife continued to play the visa lottery with the hope that they would eventually be able to win a visa, which she eventually won, allowing her, her husband, and children to get a green card. The existence of the lottery gave the Hedayets a realistic hope of eventually getting a green card, if they just played it long enough. They really had no other choice, because they had no family member who could sponsor them or any specialized skills allowing them to qualify for employment-based immigration and, of course, Hedayet did not qualify for asylum. If it had not been for the lottery, Hedayet and his family might have given up and gone home. The lottery gives hope to countless other illegal aliens that one day they too will win the lottery and be able to stay in this country. The lottery's very existence tells hundreds of thousand of other people living here illegally, who have no realistic means of ever getting a green card, that they should not go home because one day they too may win the visa lottery, if they play it long enough.

The visa lottery might be worth all the problems and risks it creates if it met some need. But it does not. There is no humanitarian reason to admit people based on luck. Unlike employment-based immigration, the lottery does not make any attempt to select people based on whether they have some special or much-needed job skill. Nor does it reunite families as is the intent with family-based immigration.

Despite its official name, the Diversity Lottery does not even have a significant effect on the actual diversity of legal immigration. In FY 2002, the top-10 immigrant-sending countries were the source of more than half of that year's total legal immigration. This is almost exactly the same percentage as 10 years earlier, before the lottery was put in place. In fact, the nation's total immigrant population (legal and illegal) has actually become less diverse during the course of the lottery.

A recent analysis of Census data by the Center for Immigration Studies found that from 1990 to 2000, Mexicans went from 22 percent of all immigrants to 30 percent, while immigrants from all of Spanish-speaking Latin America combined went from 37 to 46 percent of the total foreign-born population. Truly diversifying immigration would entail one of two things: huge reductions in immigration from Mexico, or huge increases in immigration from everywhere else. The lottery simply cannot do even what it purports to.

The progam needs to be outright eleminated. It’s a horrible system that we don’t need.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Immigrants that "win" the diversity visa lottery are vetted just like other documented immigrants. No poster has provided any evidence to the contrary. This means that those with shady backgrounds will not be admitted.

If you have an issue with the diversity lottery because it does not create diversity, then say that. Do not propagate the falsehood that "winning" the diversity lottery means you are automatically admitted to the US.

Additionally, whether someone supports that diversity lottery visa system has no bearing on the fact that those admitted through it are vetted.

Some poster couldn't write a relevant response if their life depended on it. Too funny!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Immigrants that "win" the diversity visa lottery are vetted just like other documented immigrants. No poster has provided any evidence to the contrary. This means that those with shady backgrounds will not be admitted.

The two most corrupt nations in the world, according to Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index 2003, Bangladesh and Nigeria, are also perennially among the top-10 lottery winners. State Department records from 1996 (we can't get more recent ones) show that lottery winners are even more likely than other immigration applicants to be refused a visa due to fraud.

If you have an issue with the diversity lottery because it does not create diversity, then say that.

That’s not the issue and never was for most Americans or people that despise the program.

Do not propagate the falsehood that "winning" the diversity lottery means you are automatically admitted to the US.

There are many problems with the such a system, but five stand out: 1) it is administratively burdensome; 2) it encourages illegal immigration; 3) it invites fraud; 4) it creates a great opportunity for terrorists; 5) it serves no purpose.

http://www.newsweek.com/new-york-terror-suspect-visa-trump-698146

No, but you ARE allowed in and the vetting currently in place doesn’t work.

Sayfullo Saipov, a 29-year-old Uzbekistan native, was awarded a permanent resident visa in 2010 under the Diversity Immigrant Program, ABC New Yorkreported. The program is meant to increase the number of immigrants from countries with low rates of U.S. immigration. The program awards 55,000 green cards a year, a majority of which go to people in African and Eastern European nations, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services

Additionally, whether someone supports that diversity lottery visa system has no bearing on the fact that those admitted through it are vetted.

Moreover, there is strong anecdotal evidence that many people send in more than one application using different names in an effort to increase their chances of winning. It is partly for this reason that so many "winning" entries are eventually thrown out. The whole process makes a mockery of attempts to apply even the most minimal of requirements.

Saipov applied for the program in 2008 and was granted a Diversity Visa two years later.

Wow, that’s quick!

Some poster couldn't write a relevant response if their life depended on it. Too funny!

I did, it’s called dealing with reality, it’s Thursday, I don’t drink.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The two most corrupt nations in the world, according to Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index 2003, Bangladesh and Nigeria, are also perennially among the top-10 lottery winners. State Department records from 1996 (we can't get more recent ones) show that lottery winners are even more likely than other immigration applicants to be refused a visa due to fraud.

Great! It shows that the vetting is working - people from scammer countries who are scammers don't pass the vetting, and those who aren't scammers, do. Thanks for the proof that there is no need to ban people from entire countries.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Great! It shows that the vetting is working

Hmmm...

The lottery gives hope to countless other illegal aliens that one day they too will win the lottery and be able to stay in this country.

.

people from scammer countries who are scammers don't pass the vetting, and those who aren't scammers, do. Thanks for the proof that there is no need to ban people from entire countries.

The visa lottery might be worth all the problems and risks it creates if it met some need. But it does not. There is no humanitarian reason to admit people based on luck. Unlike employment-based immigration, the lottery does not make any attempt to select people based on whether they have some special or much-needed job skill. Nor does it reunite families as is the intent with family-based immigration.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The lottery gives hope to countless other illegal aliens that one day they too will win the lottery and be able to stay in this country.

So? Who cares if they have false hope. You showed the vetting to work, and that's all that really matters.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Still no evidence that the lottery visa system allows in unsavory individuals, despite all the bold text. Not one single shred of evidence that the "winners" are not vetted. No poster has yet provided any example of the vetting not working. In fact, the poster that enjoys bold text demonstrated that vetting does work.

Relevant responses still escape some posters. Hilarious.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Two years is quick? What would a more appropriate amount of time be?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So? Who cares if they have false hope. You showed the vetting to work, and that's all that really matters.

You don’t care perhaps, most libs don’t, especially in border States like California and New York.

https://youtu.be/O1Kogni2tWc

More reason the system is outdated, flawed and doesn’t work and it needs to be scrapped, but the main thing is, it’s in its final death throws. What we need is real immigration reform and not just allow anyone to come in, should be earned or based on a serious humanitarian need.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Youtube is always a great source. I've cited it in nearly all of the articles I have written for the Times, the Post, etc.

Not just anyone is allowed into the US.

Still no evidence that visa lottery winners are not vetted or that shady people get into the US through the visa lottery.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

More reason the system is outdated, flawed and doesn’t work

But you just posted something that shows it is working:

State Department records from 1996 (we can't get more recent ones) show that lottery winners are even more likely than other immigration applicants to be refused a visa due to fraud.

Kind of messed up that you're contradicting your own information.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

We don't need to have illegal aliens come in and disrespect our laws and think they can do whatever they want. but were not only talking about illegal aliens were talking about their children many of which never broke any American laws and were born and raised in the US. There are over 8 million US citizens in American prisons maybe Trump should deport their children since by your logic children need to take responsibility for their parents illegal doings even if they themselves haven't broken any laws of the US!?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

how is it fair to kick them out for their parents illegal doings!

Keeping the family together is most important. They broke the law, they go, and the children go with them.

You seem to want to ignore those who come to the US JUST to have babies. This is illegal. It is the parents responsibility to look after and take care of their children. Those parents made a bad choice, and have to pay for the consequences, otherwise this pattern will continue. Utopia is the 10 planet, good luck getting there.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

FizzBitToday  05:40 pm JST

You seem to want to ignore those who come to the US JUST to have babies. This is illegal. 

Actually it's not.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Actually it's not.

Really. Are they declaring to the immigration agent that they are coming to the US to have a baby so it will become an automatic US citizen? Love to see the agents face hearing that. Or, do they LIE and say they're sightseeing or on business? Lying to an immigration agent is illegal last time I checked.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

US immigration is broken. There are incentives for people to break the rules. Remove those incentives.

Change the law so it requires at least 1 parent be in the USA legally for citizenship to be passed to any child.

This won't fix the issues for all those born in the USA (automatic citizens) from 2 illegal immigrants, but it is a start. Most countries have stricter requirements.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

But you just posted something that shows it is working:

Actually, I didn't that's why it's on the chopping block as it should.

Kind of messed up that you're contradicting your own information.

Not at all.

There is no humanitarian reason to admit people based on luck. Unlike employment-based immigration, the lottery does not make any attempt to select people based on whether they have some special or much-needed job skill. Nor does it reunite families as is the intent with family-based immigration.

US immigration is broken. There are incentives for people to break the rules. Remove those incentives. 

Change the law so it requires at least 1 parent be in the USA legally for citizenship to be passed to any child.

I agree.

This won't fix the issues for all those born in the USA (automatic citizens) from 2 illegal immigrants, but it is a start. Most countries have stricter requirements.

Most definitely and whether you like Trump or not, he gets it and this has been a huge burden on American society for over the last 30 years. We need an end to the visa lottery program and the put an end to chain migration.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Immigration has not been a huge burden on American society for the last 30 years.

People don't go to the US just to have babies.

Reading certain posters posts, we see they went from deriding the lottery based visa system because, as that poster claimed, it allows any shady person into the country. When corrected, that poster switched to that the lottery system doesn't bring skilled workers. Finally, that poster is on the "there is no humanitarian reason" angle.

Keep running through reason until something sticks. All the while repeating falsehoods. Brilliant critical discourse facilities.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Actually, I didn't

Sure you did - you posted that fraudsters were being found by vetting.

Didn't read your own quote properly, did you.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Because the Dems are trying to shut it down

All parts of govt. are controlled by Republicans. It's on them. But Trump followers will still blame Hillary.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Yeah man, cuz when the Dem do this, the Reps do that, so the Dems try to do this and then the Reps counter with that.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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