Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat Johnson, who promises an election

@Tangerine2000

The Lords have agreed to a streamlining procedure to have the Bill pass. Pro-Government Lords cannot stop it. Their attempt at a filibuster had been averted by a “guillotine” and the bill could be returned to the Commons by 5pm tomorrow. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/05/thursday-briefing-peers-shut-down-tory-filibuster-of-bill-to-stop-no-deal

On the Scottish court case, the Judge said that it was not justiciable, that it was not for the courts to intervene in a political matter. This is subject to appeal, and there are two more court cases in the pipeline, one in England, and one in Northern Ireland, relating to the Good Friday Agreement.

"Boris Johnson suffers huge blow after Brexit defeat"

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-brexit-wednesday-dle-gbr-intl/index.html

"You still make too many errors when you message, and last time, boy did you get muddled up with your own figures! Was it £100, £200 or £300 for your boots?"

The correct figure is £210 quid; but for you it's 2,010,00 Nelsons.

I'm off to have some tangerines.

I even watch Parliament TV (if you see wat a mean)

No. I don't see 'wat a mean'.

You are THE 'expert' here on JT. We're actually taking bets on how many times you have to use the word 'expert' in every comment. I'm betting you'll initially try hard not to use it in the next few, but you'll get straight back to using your favourite word within 5 or 6 comments :)

You still make too many errors when you message, and last time, boy did you get muddled up with your own figures! Was it £100, £200 or £300 for your boots?

The opposition just defeated BJ again, to control the business of Parliament.

JT "experts" still clueless, argue that Boris WANTS an election.

I will say this once more; Boris can want anything he WANTS!

Doesn't mean he's gonna get it; HE'S NOT THE PARLIAMENT!!!

People should first (then again it took me a whole degree, and still only know a bit about it), learn what Parliamentary Sovereignty is, rather than consulting Wiki and pretend they know!

OK... so a return to Europe will be even more disastrous for the UK then exiting, and Europe now knows that... if that happens, the UK is going to become another Greece of Europe and God help us all... the Queen may as well emigrate to Canada!

Johnson isn’t that good thinking on his feet.

I'm not sure he's that good at thinking at all. All bluster.

I agree with your comment about Ken Clarke. And today, I've just watched Hilary Benn introduce his no-deal bill. A very intelligent person who laid out the proposal very clearly. What I've seen over the past two days are that there are some very good politicians across all parties. And so I wonder why we have such a terrible bunch in charge of both main parties.

Polls don't matter in the least. Parliament decides whether Britain leaves without a deal. Parliament also decides if there's going to be an early election or not.

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1169249509899218945

If Boris Johnson fails to pass the dissolution motion tonight - which requires the support of two thirds of MPs - what might he do next? Lots of chatter about a one clause bill to bring about an election. But could Johnson in theory trigger a no-confidence in himself? Yes.

Several people have pointed out that at PMQs Johnson referred to male MPs correctly as 'The honourable member for Dunny-On-The-Wold' etc but female MPs were just referred to as 'she'.

Tangerine2000Today  07:26 pm JST

Some more food for thought. According to a recent YouGov poll.

If you have to choose, would you rather have:

Britiain leaves the EU without a deal, but Corbyn does not become PM

Polls don't matter in the least. Parliament decides whether Britain leaves without a deal. Parliament also decides if there's going to be an early election or not.

Johnson lost it at Prime MInsiter's Questions. Not only did he lose his rag and swear, he made Corbyn look good, refused to answer questions and when challenged about his racist remarks about Muslim women dismissed the question as 'liberalism', even after the MP asking the question was given a round of applause by the House. Father of the House Ken Clarke showed his comtempt for Johnson and having the whip removed by him merely by taking his usual seat in the House.

Perhaps one day we can have government replaced by AI. When it’s proven it can make better decisions.

Just don’t call it Skynet...

Some more food for thought. According to a recent YouGov poll.

If you have to choose, would you rather have:

Britiain leaves the EU without a deal, but Corbyn does not become PM

OR

Corbyn becomes PM, hold second referendum including the option to remain?

48% No Deal

35% Corbyn, Second Referendum

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/08/17/48-35-britons-would-rather-have-no-deal-and-no-cor?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=no_deal_no_corbyn

Without the Don't knows, that's 58% for a No-Deal Brexit and 42% for Corbyn.

Corbyn is going to prevent Labour from doing anything.

Boris’s planned prorogation of Parliament is lawful, says judge at the highest court in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49568760

The way Ken Clarke spoke down to Johnson in parliament was fun to watch. The ill-mannered old sod wasn’t having any of Johnson’s nonsense.

Johnson isn’t that good thinking on his feet. He can do preparation like fluff his hair up for the cameras but he isn’t actually any good.

Next!

SerranoToday  02:41 pm JST

More than three years after the United Kingdom voted in a referendum to leave the European Union, the defeat leaves the course of Brexit unresolved, with possible outcomes still ranging from a turbulent 'no-deal' exit to abandoning the whole endeavor.

So, having a referendum in the U.K. is pointless then. The politicians who reneged on this need to be voted out.

No, I think the politicians who conned the public into thinking they could deliver Brexit need to be voted out. Boris Johnson, for instance, who has only been MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip since 2015, and whose majority was halved in 2017. It wouldn't take many more people around there to decide he needs to be voted out, and after this embarrassing fiasco they just might.

I think a few too many people are assuming the vote in Parliament is done and dusted. Please don't forget it has to get through the House of Lords in time. A few people are starting to wonder if Boris actually wanted it to pass in the HoC yesterday.

Pro-Government Lords plan to block the remainer legislation.

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1169143053329850368

-Opposition motion intends to change HoL rules to speed up passage of the new bill

-86 amendments have been tabled to it

-Each amendment requires two votes to be heard/dismissed

-Time to hear them all would require continuous 24/7 sitting until Saturday

From day one no crystal ball was needed to predict the fate of "the will of the people" bleated out ad nauseam by benighted Brexitwits. Bumbling Bojo's "take back control"box o' tricks and his Brexit "out of a hat" RIP.

"Nobody thought healthcare could be so complicated." Just like his yank pal, "Nobody thought Brexit could be so complicated." The boris-trump circus is alive and well!

Fox Sora WintersToday  01:20 pm JST

I can only hope that Johnson has some kind of ace up his sleeve to turn things around and get this over with quickly.

You may be just about the only person to hold out such a hope. When I think of Boris Johnson the phrase that comes to mind is "busted flush."

So, having a referendum in the U.K. is pointless then.

It is if the proposed change is not supported by the government of the day. Cameron called the referendum to appease the extreme group in his own party. May tried to negotiate a deal that would appease that same extreme group while ignoring a broader range of views from across all parties, including her own. But that extreme group voted against it. That group is now in charge of government.

During the debate, only a few called for a new referendum on whatever deal can be negotiated. Yet that seems to me the sensible next step.

More than three years after the United Kingdom voted in a referendum to leave the European Union, the defeat leaves the course of Brexit unresolved, with possible outcomes still ranging from a turbulent 'no-deal' exit to abandoning the whole endeavor.

So, having a referendum in the U.K. is pointless then. The politicians who reneged on this need to be voted out.

First Johnson says this:

"I don't want an election"

Then moments later he says this:

"I can confirm that we are tonight tabling a motion under the Fixed Term Parliament Act."

The man is utterly incapable of telling the truth.

Oh great. Just what we need. Another delay. Another round of in-fighting that only weakens our position and strengthens that of the EU. Well done. I get it, a No Deal exit is unappealing. But it's a short term thing that we can recover from. Dragging it on for months, years or longer, that'll hurt more. When you wax your leg, you don't pull the strip off as slowly as possible, so why are we using that mindset here? Just rip and move on. I can only hope that Johnson has some kind of ace up his sleeve to turn things around and get this over with quickly. It'll be painful no matter what, but prolonging the suffering won't help.

A little bit of compromise, on Customs Union for example, and Theresa May could have delivered Brexit six months ago. They could have "got on with it" as lots of British people implored. But oh no, that would have split the Tory Party.

Well, we have a major split now, they've lost their majority, we have an even bigger bunch of goons (Raab, Hancock, Patel etc.) in the cabinet, we are no closer to Brexit, and the opposition to them is now far better organized. The Tory Party has gambled on getting a harder Brexit than May's and is failing and destroying itself in the process. This is looking like it will be a case study in how not to do politics. By failing to compromise, they are losing everything.

and... including the grandson of Winston Churchill...... oh Johnson boy what are you doing...

nobody voted for a no-deal exit. in fact, their campaign was based on lies, so that means that people never saw the whole picture. and a no deal brexit would be a complete disaster for the UK.

seriously, my dear British friends, get rid of this mess; elect a new Prime Minister, have a new referendum (everybody knows that remain will easily win), and apologize to the EU. unless you wanna go through a looong storm, lose Scotland on the way and feel isolated between the world superpowers, just for the sake of saying "we,re the UK, we,re special".

Criticizing the government is a taboo in England,

@ilovecoffee This comment, and pretty much the whole of your post, is woefully inaccurate.

Johnson can't have a General Election without Parliament voting for one, which they won't do unless there is a guarantee of a No Deal Brexit.

Johnson's first Common's session as PM shows just how woefully out of his depth he is.

This is so messed up. Democracy becomes plight when a nation is divided by simple majority. And I can't see there's a solution to the Irish border after Brexit. Had UK left the island of Ireland all together then things would've been alot easier to manage

The government was defeated by 328 to 301 on a motion put forward by opposition parties and rebel lawmakers in Johnson's party - who had been warned they would be kicked out of the Conservative Party if they defied the government.

...

The 21 Conservative rebels who now face expulsion from the party include Nicholas Soames, the grandson of Britain's World War Two leader Winston Churchill, and two former finance ministers - Philip Hammond and Kenneth Clarke.

Nice to see there are some conservatives with principles and integrity.

In all this circus, nobody is even wondering if EU would give another delay to UK. You triggered the article 50, you deal with it. You negociated a deal, you don't like it anymore, you don't want this deal, you don't want no deal, you don't want to stay... will you ever make up your mind UK ?

BelrickToday  11:06 am JST

"They range from Boris, Farage, Rees Moggy and certain JT "experts".

Now, Parliament is letting everybody know they were and always will be sovereign; Brexiteers don't like it one bit."

Why should we like it? You're essentially saying that my vote to leave...

You were entitled to vote in the 2016 EU referendum?

Boris Johnson will invite Donald Trump to speak in the British parliament for why choosing a "No-deal" is a good deal!

They range from Boris, Farage, Rees Moggy and certain JT "experts".

Now, Parliament is letting everybody know they were and always will be sovereign; Brexiteers don't like it one bit.

Why should we like it? You're essentially saying that my vote to leave doesn't mean anything, just because you lost the right to remain! Typical response from the remain camp and you yourself being a '****JT expert'.

Shambolic, self serving bunch of hypocrites.  the number of permutations of these charlatans voting for then against a deal, for then against Article 50, for then against various leaving dates defies belief. 

This needs to get finished one way or the other.

Personally I think the EU is not all it is cracked up to be, but whatever one's view this shambles has to end.

Election seems a good way to resolve this, although chances are it will result in another hung parliament and more of this mess.  Unless the mood of the nation says enough and gives BJ a mandate to do as he says he will.

Another delay? Thought Brits are always on time!

The final decision was made 2 years ago and still can't figure out how the game is still on.

Those who were born at the time of beginning of Brexit thing have already started to walk their path of life and the Parliament is still enjoying their monopoly.

Does anyone else think it’s funny that, if he follows through on his promise to fire revels, Johnson is going to deem the grandson of his dearest hero, Winston Churchill, a traitor to the party?

Brexit, like Britain, is a joke that should have been stopped a long time ago. How anyone still thinks it’s remotely a good idea baffles me.

kurisupisuToday  09:09 am JST

@Ilovecoffee

You have obviously never heard of Private Eye which has a large readership-Brits complain all the time about this or that...

You're talking to someone who thinks Britain is actually run by unelected lords. Pointing such things out is probably a wasted effort.

Stupid is as stupid does

Meet Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, is about to gamble the labour party future on a/the belief, in reality, is nothing more than the prostitutions of a back bench reactionary.

The beginning of the end for the shortest prime ministership in history. Hooray!

It will be interesting to see what Labour do today. If after months of claiming that the General Election is necessary to get the public's consent to go ahead/reverese Brexit, it won't look good for them to vote against having a GE.

It also seems that the whip has been removed from all Tory MPs (21 of them!) who voted against the Government last night.

while you may disagree with his motives about brexit, boris has a point. delaying an exit a few months will do absolutely nothing. you've had over two years to figure this out and another delay will just lead...to another delay. hard brexit, soft brexit or no brexit: just make up your freaking mind and do it by oct. 31. the whole world is sick and tired of this drama.

Dear Britain,

As horrible as Johnson may be, he ain't nothing compared to the Angry Yam.

I'll trade ya...?

@Ilovecoffee

You have obviously never heard of Private Eye which has a large readership-Brits complain all the time about this or that...

The Electorate will have to separate the political virulent sequential, because I suggest,that Jeremy Corbyn will fail to climb over his own idealogical dogma.

Good.

Enough Tory nonsense.

LOL! Like Abe, Johnson is another wannabe con man trying to imitate Dump! The "Axis of Idiots" has hurt more countries than they have helped including their own.

He will deflect and blame everyone but his own poor judgement.

Trust me for just one second politicians will not, no never find penitence in their prostration. They are the political equivalent of the Ferengi, lobes are sometime lunatics.

I am surprised the EU has not solved this themselves by just throwing the U.K. out of the nest. Well, I guess they don't want to be blamed for the result but are going to let the U.K. hang itself with all that rope.

Personally I don't see the need to try and micromanage this thing. Can't get a deal? Just leave already. The people more directly in charge of things will find solutions to the problems that come up.

So there you have it, clear evidence that Johnson has nothing, a "sham" in the their own words, to offer the EU and get a deal done. And there aren't enough crazies/Tory careerists in Parliament to push No Deal or sit back and allow it to happen. By ejecting the MPs who voted against the government today, Johnson now has a majority of -43.

It should be remembered that the opposition has only gelled in this way due to the decision to prorogue (shut down) Parliament. Through his own stupid move, Johnson has forced the opposition to come together. It would never have happened with this urgency otherwise. Johnson has been shown up as someone not clever enough to outmove the EU or the UK Parliament, but stupid enough to try gambles that only weaken his position further.

To our British friends: You were had by hucksters. Rid yourselves of them, and after a well-need delay, vote again on Brexit after a campaign of truth exposes their cruel hoax. We would love to help you in some way but we have our own Huckster in Chief to deal with. So we have our hands full trying to save our own democracy from autocratic rule. 

Good luck, dear Brits.

A General Election, could well predicate a purge of political Conservative miscreants.

If Boris Johnson government prevails, the likelihood indeed will sever the relationship between the UK and EU both politicly and economically irrevocably.

Think about that seriously. I believe that politically, economically, democratically it will be lead to a perilous confrontation.

This is why Unions of the type are doomed to failure, the simple requirement that we all hold our politicians to account, that's up close and personal by the lapels must be respected.

It is time to take a step back maybe. or maybe not

Criticizing the government is a taboo in England, because you will immediately be called "anti-British" traitor. 

@Ilovecoffee - a rather confused post displaying your ignorance of the UK. Criticising the government is very common, and there is a long tradition of both out and out criticism as well as satire - a tradition that goes back hundreds of years. There is no "taboo".

Criticizing the government is a taboo in England

I cannot begin to tell you how inaccurate that statement is.

I really hope they leave with no deal, because if they reach some sort of a deal, they will forever drag the EU into their hysteria and drama, and will not stop complaining how the EU is destroying them because of this deal. Although, even if they leave with no deal, i doubt they will ever stop dragging the EU into their eternal drama. They will keep bashing and talking about the EU until there are people who want to bash the EU, which means forever. You will never hear the type of criticism of their own government and country like you hear from the US media or practically every other European media. Criticizing the government is a taboo in England, because you will immediately be called "anti-British" traitor. You can rewind the entire political history of Nigel Farage, and not once you will see him criticizing his own government for doing what he accuses the EU of doing. Island nations do not separate government from society. They have a very collectivist view of themselves. They are like a family, and the govt. is the parents of the family. That's why they can only criticize individuals within the government, but never the whole institution. Usually in England the way they criticize their own country or government for doing something is by criticizing somebody else, some other country, in most cases the EU. By pointing out at a particular policy or thing they hate about something else, they hope the govt. will indirectly get the idea.

Corbyn doesn't exactly inspire anyone or thing. It'll be a victory just because Corbyn is unpalatable,not that the public trust Johnson.

The vote is very likely to splinter ( the popular vote saw 41% Tory and 40% Labour in the last General Election ). The Libdems are picking up support and Farage’s no-policy circus will pick up some support.

It’s doubtful we’ll see a winner.

"Former Conservative Party Leader and Prime Minister John Major has joined the legal battle against Johnson's plan to prorogue Parliament."

Johnson is doomed already; today he lost the tiny majority he had on the Commons.

The Lords are majorly against him.

He's a liar who only got to where he is because ignoramuses are allowed to vote.

Former Conservative Party Leader and Prime Minister John Major has joined the legal battle against Johnson's plan to prorogue Parliament.

http://www.irishnews.com/news/brexit/2019/08/30/news/john-major-to-take-boris-johnson-to-court-over-suspension-of-parliament-1699014/

Johnson's attempt to turn the Tories into a statist/fascist party based on populist spending plans and anti-immigrant xenophobia is doomed to fail, it seems.

This is the correct move. An election gives a mandate to the winner.

Brexiteers cite Parliamentary sovereignty as a major reason to extricate the UK from the EU; never mind they didn't and still don't know what Parliamentary sovereignty actually is.

They range from Boris, Farage, Rees Moggy and certain JT "experts".

Now, Parliament is letting everybody know they were and always will be sovereign; Brexiteers don't like it one bit.

Pure comedy.