Civilians flee Syrian border towns as Turkish warplanes, artillery begin offensive

The question everyone needs to ask is what did Trump receive in exchange for selling out the Kurds?

Donald Trump has betrayed the Kurdish forces who have fought side by side with our American sons and daughters, taking 12,000 casualties protecting Americans who suffered only a few casualties.

"You break it, you own it."

Colin Powell

Donny abandons allies at Putin’s bidding, predictable.

The Turks are giving him a middle finger by going ahead with the assault.

Does anyone take Donny seriously anymore?????

Brought to you by Donny.

This is so openly against our own interests and so openly helps our enemies that I have to wonder ....what did they offer Trump to go along with it?

I don't understand, Trump threaten to "obliterate" Turkey's economy on Twitter.

Why didn't that stop them ???

Nevermind, Trump has an excuse already :

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-abandoning-kurds-syria-didnt-help-during-wwii-allies-2019-10

"They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy," Trump said of the Kurds. He added, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds."

Trump aligned himself with anti-war voices in the Republican Party like Senator Rand Paul, saying the United States should have never been involved in conflicts in the Middle East in the first place.

I'm with them.

Does anyone take Donny seriously anymore?????

Oh yeah, a whole slew of people, especially all the people who were saying Trump will never become president, and the Chinese are taking him seriously.

Brought to you by Donny.

Noooooo, brought to you by the warring factions in the Middle East who have been warring for centuries.

Its a strange new world.

Those that for as long as I can remember who were vociferously against U.S. military entanglement and adventures in foreign countries are now voicing opposition to Trump's actions.

Don't get me wrong. This is not a comment on whether what Trump did is right or wrong. Frankly, the way he describes Erdogan, Putin, Xi, Kim, and all of the other brutal dictators in the world leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

However, I just find that Trump has led people to oppose things they previously would have supported and supported things they previously would have opposed. And that is true for people on both sides in the U.S.

However, I just find that Trump has led people to oppose things they previously would have supported and supported things they previously would have opposed. And that is true for people on both sides in the U.S.

Me:. I think I'll knock down this wall and create more of an open area.

Trump fan:. (drives his car through my living room and takes out the wall.)

Me:. WTF????

Trump fan:. But you JUST SAID you wanted to knock this wall out! Sheesh!!

If you go around betraying your allies it will come back to bite you.

Especially when you are creating an atmosphere where everyone is waiting for your downfall.

A very sad individual.

No leadership at all despite having the deepest wisdom the world has ever seen

In his latest press conference Trump called out the military-industrial complex.

Trump gives fiery press conference after signing Executive Order

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mda3pu5wrbA

As if we need any more evidence that Trump is Putin's Poodle and does everything he orders him to do.

The US pulls out of Syria, Russian increases its presence and fills the vacuum.

Assad gets stronger and strengthens his position, with Russian help.

Turkey, already buying Russian SAMs, will continue to get closer to Russia.

ISIS will regain strength posing an increased threat to the US and Europe.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/07/trump-handing-syria-to-turkey-is-gift-to-russia-iran-isis-mcgu.html

Will the Repub "Guardians of Putin" find their spine and push back?

There's about as much chance of that as there is Mike Pence going on a date with Elton John....

Serrano: Noooooo, brought to you by the warring factions in the Middle East who have been warring for centuries.

Everyone wants the troops home. But not done in a way that kills people who fought with us, erodes our trust with current and future partners, and potentially puts us in more danger. Surely there was a better way.

Everyone wants the troops home. But not done in a way that kills people who fought with us, erodes our trust with current and future partners, and potentially puts us in more danger. Surely there was a better way.

Agreed, but you're trying to reason with people that deny facts and logic.

In his latest press conference Trump called out the military-industrial complex.

Trump gives fiery press conference after signing Executive Order

The rantings and ravings of a demented old man...pitiful...

@serrano In his latest press conference Trump called out the military-industrial complex.

Does that include Trump's hand-picked Secretary of Defense Mark Esper 'on loan' from Raytheon, a corporation with over US$20 billion in weapons sales? Trump's previous Secretary of Defense came from Boeing, also over US$20 billion in weapon sales. How about Trump's hand-picked man Pompeo, also from big defense. Has anyone seen Trump's latest tax info to see how much he's personally invested in defense industries and the contracts they've got since he's been in the White House.

Something for the Trumpets to be proud of.

The US withdrawl is the Orange Buffoons attempt to take focus off his impeachment.

Utterly selfish.

If you go around betraying your allies it will come back to bite you.

History proves that isn't true when you have all the cards. The U.S. government has all the cards. There are even people so ignorant and stupid they actually trust the U.S. government. Frankly, I doubt the Kurds ever did. I am sure they just took what they could get when they could get it knowing full well the greedy megalomaniacs they were dealing with.

Hmm. Kurds. 1944. Normandy. The insanity of his remark is less terrifying than the thought process behind it.

The Trump bus is throwing bodies and allies out the door and under the wheels at a very rapid pace....

Sec of Energy Perry - Ukraine-gate is your fault....

VP Pence - you get a piece of Ukraine too...

Sec of State Pompeo - China-gate is your fault...

Kurds - sorry, you're on your own...

Next: Hey Don Jr - time for you to take the fall for the Access Hollywood tape....

"stab in the back" and strongly criticized in Washington, even by loyal senior figures in his own Republican Party.

ouch Harsh, but expected. My thoughts are pretty simple. Cleverly done and well played by POTUS. In Roman time the mighty empire was spread to far and wide as today. True Rome had allies but when things got really bad where were the allies? hmmm No response. It's enemies as today were growing in strength from within and destroying Rome via corruption and greed, i.e Democrats and some Republicans selling out high tech jobs, high tech equipment, MFG jobs under the guise of strict Env regs, finally to using the Internet to destroy any remaining economy. Even in Roman times though different tech, and mfg, it too along with internal crooked politicians was hugely to blame for the fall of Rome. This decay was not immediate but it ended badly. POTUS has gone against what happened to Rome by his "Make America Great Again or MAGA". His advances in helping the US come back has been thwarted time and time again by globalists influenced by both Russian and China. However the accomplishments he has done has helped our economy from totally falling out and kept us barely above water. In recently mobilizing to active duty Marine Reserves was great and supported. Our US economy may not be what it used to be no thanks to the one-sided Free Trade agreements and loss of millions of jobs and wealth to nations that now threaten openly to destroy and attack the US, China being one no thank you. By strengthening the economy, re-aligning our forces abroad and internally he has avoided a repeat of the Roman Empire mistake while saving countless US troops lives. The US is not a police force. Why is the US always providing the higher costs and yet nothing back except more bad criticism. No thank you. Bring us all back and keep only those who support the US fully intact. That is an ally. to the Loyal senior figures in his own Rep party, the words of Julius Caesar come to mind..."et tu brute".

Allies like South Korea and Japan are watching how the US stands behind them.

Turkey is sending in Syrian FSA frontline troops to fight Syrian SDF troops to take each other out, meanwhile waiting to step into the vacuum and create this Turkish DMZ for housing refugees.

"The Kurds were the pointy end of the spear who fought ISIS on our behalf. They bled and died because they believed in the partnership they had established with the United States. . . . And we just threw them under the bus in less than 24 hours. It's appalling and it's disgraceful and then today when the Turks are quite predictably bombing the bejesus out of Syria and Trump orders the U.S. military not to come to their defense, not to protect them, we've crossed a Rubicon of betrayal here that is going to haunt us for decades to come. ... and that blood is going to be on Donald Trump's hands."

Susan Rice, former US Ambassador to the UN

The ignorance by the CNN parrotting Trump haters about the Kurdish issue is simply stunning.

I know the lies that CNN is touting, as I watch that propagand channel every morning. But has CNN ever explained to you that the Kurdish issue has existed for hundreds of years inside Turkey, Iran, Iraq, anc Syria, and that it cannot be resolved by handful of US soldiers illegally creating a mini Kurd state inside Syria? That it needs to be solved in cooperation with all of the governments involved?

Or that the islamist-infested "Syrian democratic forces" are a far cry from representing "the Kurds"?

Crickets...

stormcrow:

the Turks are quite predictably bombing the bejesus out of Syria and Trump orders the U.S. military not to come to their defense

....and you take this bombastic hype by Susan Rice at face value?? Care to explain to us how occupying a small border region equals "bombing the bejesus out of Syria", and how 100 US soldiers are supposed to oppose the biggest military force in Nato? And why exactly the US military needs to be present in the region in the first place?

@willib know the lies that CNN is touting, as I watch that propagand channel 

Could you provide a list of media outlets you think report objectively. CNNphobia seems to be shared by many followers of the global alt right movement.

zichi:

The Kurds will be forced to release the 15,000 ISS they are holding prisoner.

Is that what they are telling you at CNN? Have you asked yourself if the very limited Kurdish militias have ressources to police 15000 people? And if Erdogan is interested in releasing 15000 ISIS headcutters into the wild? Yes, Erdogan is an islamist, but is CNN telling you that Erdogans islamism is identical to ISIS? Seriously?

Ptownsend:

Could you provide a list of media outlets you think report objectively.

There is no single media outlet that reports 100% objectively. But you really should look outside the CNN/NYT/BBC/Guardian etc etc etc globalist neolib bubble to get a realistic picture of the world. You could start by reading articles at Zerohedge, Peter Lavalle, Lee Stranahan, Gad Saad, Syriana, the Duran, etc etc. I can´t give you a reading list here, but there is whole world outside the corporate media propaganda bubble.

CNNphobia seems to be shared by many followers of the global alt right movement.

CNN is simply the most omnipresent and most blatant of the corporate propagand media, so it is simply shorthand. And what is the "global alt righ movement"? Anything outside the CNN bubble?

@WilliB

The U.S. military went in there, asked for the Kurds to do the lion's share of the fighting (so we wouldn't have to), they accepted our assistance, they fought for us and they died for us. If the Kurds haven't learned by now they sure do know it now. The U.S. is an undependable ally and partner.

Erdogan and the Turks attacking from the north, Putin (Trump's good friend) and the Russians from the south, Assad and the Syrians from the west, and Trump hightailing it out of there without so much as a thank you to the 10,000 Kurds who died fighting ISIS on our behalf. As Susan Rice said, the U.S. "has crossed a Rubicon of betrayal that is going to haunt us for decades to come."

Erdogan, Putin, Assad & Trump . . . maybe Susan Rice will write a book entitled "A Tale of Four Dictators"

@serrano In his latest press conference Trump called out the military-industrial complex.

Does that include Trump's hand-picked Secretary of Defense Mark Esper 'on loan' from Raytheon, a corporation with over US$20 billion in weapons sales? Trump's previous Secretary of Defense came from Boeing, also over US$20 billion in weapon sales. How about Trump's hand-picked man Pompeo, also from big defense. Has anyone seen Trump's latest tax info to see how much he's personally invested in defense industries and the contracts they've got since he's been in the White House.

We don't live in a perfect world where you can fix everything within 3 years. Pete.

If you don't like the military-industrial complex, Trump is a way better choice than Biden or any of the Democrat candidates.

Absolutely shameful. Trump is destroying American credibility in morality, diplomacy, and economics.

stormcrow:

The U.S. military went in there, asked for the Kurds to do the lion's share of the fighting (so we wouldn't have to), they accepted our assistance, they fought for us and they died for us. If the Kurds haven't learned by now they sure do know it now.

That is nice polemic tale, however the reality is a bit different. Yes, the US did supply the Kurdish militias with weapons and logistics to defend themselves about the ISIS headcutters, however part of the deal was never to carve out ot Kurdish state within Syria. Such a thing is impossible without the agreement of the Syrian and Turkish governments. And the Kurds most certainly did not "fight for us". They fought for themselves. You seem completely oblivious to the long history of the Kurds in the region.

And the whole Syrian mess could have been solved much sooner by letting Assad handle it with Russian assistance. But no, the previous administration (and the current one, as long as Trump does not stop the swamp) simply has to continue meddling in their desire to destroy Syria.

The U.S. is an undependable ally and partner.

Looking at history, I agree. However the hamfisted story that CNN is currently feeding you about the Syrian situation does not fit there.

Let's look at the score....

US abandons an ally in region creating doubts in others, Russia stands by theirs (Assad) - Russia 1, US 0...

Russia expands influence in region allowing greater support for murderous Assad regime - Russia 2, US 0...

Russia furthers defense sales to others in region and Turkey - Russia 3, US 0...

Kurds forced to release over 10K ISIS fights - many return to Europe and cause attacks - Russia 4, US 0....

Europeans blame US which further destabilizes the Western Alliance - Russia 5, US 0...

Yep, it's easy to understand why the Russians in the Internet Research Agency were celebrating with champagne when they found out Trump won in 2016...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-08/senate-intelligence-panel-warns-russian-meddling-continues

Donald Trump - Putin's Poodle...

@wiilib Peter Lavalle

I stopped looking at your list after reading Lavalle reports for RT. I actually look at RT. But find it usually reports things from Putin's 'conservative' perspective.

 And what is the "global alt righ movement"?

The 'global' movement outlets like RT, Breitbart, infowars, Drudge etc report on, and which is led politically by leaders like Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, Farage, Modi etal.

The Japanese did not exactly help the U.S. in Normandy either, but they still seem to believe that the U.S. will fight to save them if war comes.

US domiciled Japanese units fought valiantly for the US against Germany during WWII.

Even the insane Party has savaged trump on this particularly insane decision.

Trump knows the wheels are falling off his presidency, it makes you wonder why he really made the decision? It's either monetary or perhaps even Russian kompromat.

Disgusting either way the Turkish aggression.

zichi:

You have made the same comment to me several times even though i informed you I don't have CNNjp and haven't watched it for more than 20 years.

...and I answered that I use CNN simply as shorthand for the globalist neolib propaganda media. So what are you watching/reading?

I don't understand why you pay for a CNN subscription and watch it every morning? Like I said I don't watch American news channels.

CNN comes as part of the package, and (unlike you, it seems) I try to listen to different opinions.

If the Kurds are forced to retreat from Turk shelling they won't be taking their ISS prisoners with them

Well, that is detail speculation. I doubt they simply open the gates. Neither you nor I are actually in the region.

Can I suggest you find a more suitable New Channel for your needs.

Like the one you are watching? Tell us which one. It certainly seems to contain all the CNN propaganda talking points.

Ptownsend:

I stopped looking at your list

Figures. It is uncomfortable to peek outside the bubble, isn´t it. Afaic, unlike the one-liners from the orange man bad chorus on this forum, Lavalle actually makes sense.

@WilliB

The fact is they helped us when we needed it, and we ran away when they needed ours.

Let's hope then that the U.S. doesn't need allies in that volatile little part of the world in the future, but something tells me we will eventually.

Trump threw them under the bus and what did he say today? Something about the Kurds not helping us out on D-Day?! What a schmuck!

Ptouwnsend:

And what is the "global alt righ movement"?

The 'global' movement outlets like RT, Breitbart, infowars, Drudge etc report on, and which is led politically by leaders like Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson, Farage, Modi etal.

So, in other words, anything that contradicts the globalist neolib ideology. So can I lump CNN and the rest of the corporate globalist media as "alt.left"?

By the way, I have never watched Infowars, as with Alex Jones there is too much insanity mixed with real news, and Drudge does not write reports, he simply compiles news articles (mostly from the mainstream propaganda media), albeit with a filter on the more critical ones. Just to point out, since you seem unaware of that.

...and I answered that I use CNN simply as shorthand for the globalist neolib propaganda media. So what are you watching/reading?

You just lost all credibility with that one - using CNN not as its defined, but as a derogatory term that you have self-defined.

......remove 50 U.S. troops out of northern Syria, which has allowed Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded

I fail to see how 50 US military personnel would have been able to impede the Turkish invasion. Were they serving as forward air controllers? I could see the presence of such a small number of troops having a major effect only if they were there to call in and coordinate airstrikes on Turkish forces.

.

@willib globalist

So in other words you follow the global alt right movement, a movement that uses the above term the same with it was used in 1930's Germany. 'Alt right' is a term the far right coined to describe itself. 'Alt left' is an alt right term. I know right wing English media well. In reading them it's easy to find patterns in the ways they use language, the common 'enemies' they call out, and the ways they support global oil and deny climate change.

I fail to see how 50 US military personnel would have been able to impede the Turkish invasion.

Yet, this is why Turkey didn't launch its invasion sooner.

As long as some US soldiers were there, there was a risk that Turkey could hurt or kill some of them by accident, which would become a major problem between the two countries. Add the fact that they are NATO allies, and it would be even worse.

No leader in their right mind would take a risk like that, even if there was only a tiny chance of an accident.