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Dutch police arrest Turkish man suspected of killing 3, wounding 5 in tram shooting

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By Bart H Meijer

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The Dutch, which have one of the most progressive societies on Earth, have been dealing with Islamic terror for a long time, and have become very good at weeding out Islamic extremists and deporting them -- but no system is perfect. Some are going to get through and commit acts of terror. Sad.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Here's hoping if the guy videotaped it scumbag Erdogan plays that at his rallies too.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Sounds like the guy snapped NOT a terrorist attack.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The Dutch, which have one of the most progressive societies on Earth, have been dealing with Islamic terror for a long time, and have become very good at weeding out Islamic extremists and deporting them -- but no system is perfect. Some are going to get through and commit acts of terror. Sad.

Actually, that is not true, the radical Islamic threat in the Netherlands as well as neighboring Belgium has been growing, they are doing the best that can do, but it is worsening as well as overwhelming and with the connections of terror cells communicating between the two countries is a huge threat to war on Islamic extremism.

-15 ( +6 / -21 )

Although his brother seems to subscribe to extremist religious views,  this fellow is described by acquaintances as a coke sniffing idiot, has fired a gun in public before and has a long rap sheet. Should have been in prison or at least have been kept on a leash at all times.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Actually, that is not true, the radical Islamic threat in the Netherlands as well as neighboring Belgium has been growing, they are doing the best that can do, but it is worsening as well as overwhelming and with the connections of terror cells communicating between the two countries is a huge threat to war on Islamic extremism.

Any evidence to back up this naked assertion?

3 ( +10 / -7 )

Any evidence to back up this naked assertion?

That cherrypicks and puts a liberal one-sided perspective spin on it? Not really.

-13 ( +4 / -17 )

Not really.

Didn't think so. Your making progress by admitting your assertions don't have any supporting evidence. I'm proud of you, tiger.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Your making progress by admitting your assertions don't have any supporting evidence. I'm proud of you, tiger.

To not cherrypick one-sided liberal news, not my style and you are welcome. Lol

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

Not sure if this was really a terrorist attack as Turkish are not known for terrorist attacks in Europe. However this will happen more in future Europe. Borders are wide open so guns and extremists can flow in and out easily. Shame but Europe is lost.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

CrazyJoeToday  06:40 am JST

The Dutch.... the most progressive..... have been dealing with Islamic terror for a long time.....

I wonder how many think it's worth it.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

When do we human stop the madness of killing the innocents?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@bass

What evidence can you provide that shows a rise in radical islamic terrorism in the Netherlands? I'm not talking liberal or conservative here, actual facts.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Before the blood dried, the New Zealand attacks had the label of ‘white extremism and terrorist’ but not here?

Turkey is 98% Muslim and the attacker was born there and the attacks may have had a terrorist motive according to the Dutch police.

Let the facts be revealed. The list of victims nor their ethnic origins have been revealed but I wouldn’t be surprised at that information.......

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Before the blood dried, the New Zealand attacks had the label of ‘white extremism and terrorist’ but not here?

Uhhh, because it was clearly stated as such. A white guy who put out a manifesto with a detailed plan to exterminate minorities before he even started...Where you been at?

Turkey is 98% Muslim and the attacker was born there and the attacks may have had a terrorist motive according to the Dutch police.

Its very likely this was a terrorist attack from an extremist Muslim. Nobody is arguing that. It's also very likely it was a domestic dispute. Dutch police have said they don't know yet. Jumping to conclusions that it was an act of terror on the public because the man is from Turkey is racist. Don't you think?

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Race has nothing to do with it.

Look at my post again and ponder more deeply....

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Race has nothing to do with it.

Look at my post again and ponder more deeply....

Tbh, I have no idea what you are trying to say. This is the comments section on an article, not a guessing game.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

What evidence can you provide that shows a rise in radical islamic terrorism in the Netherlands? I'm not talking liberal or conservative here, actual facts

Been for many years now.

https://www.csis.org/events/rise-islamic-neoradicalism-netherlands

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Its very likely this was a terrorist attack from an extremist Muslim. Nobody is arguing that. It's also very likely it was a domestic dispute.

I doubt that very much. Is it possible, it is, but I seriously doubt it.

Dutch police have said they don't know yet. Jumping to conclusions that it was an act of terror on the public because the man is from Turkey is racist. Don't you think?

In Europe, they always say that to CYA, but sadly, they all know too well what it actually is and there is nothing wrong or racist or politically incorrect to making that observation.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

https://www.csis.org/events/rise-islamic-neoradicalism-netherlands

This isn't an article...Its an overview of a seminar. Did you attend the seminar? 11 years ago?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The Dutch.... the most progressive..... have been dealing with Islamic terror for a long time.....

I wonder how many think it's worth it.

If we look at views on immigration, the polls I’ve seen show the Dutch are very divided this, although Wilders’ anti-immigration party didn’t do as well as expected in the last election.

It’s worth pointing out that Dutch immigration laws have become stricter over the past few years.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In Europe, they always say that to CYA, but sadly, they all know too well what it actually is and there is nothing wrong or racist or politically incorrect to making that observation.

Then why can't Trump make the observation? Hmmm, lol

5 ( +5 / -0 )

This isn't an article...Its an overview of a seminar. Did you attend the seminar? 11 years ago?

Exactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Sounds like a lone unpredictable nutcase, with a dab of this and a dab of that, sadly seeming to prove everyone's point of view, dragging out everyone's hate, not fitting into any box, a walking trigger

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Exactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

Can you give us something more up to date or is it just your opinion that the threat posed by radical Islam is on the rise?

I’m not the type who tries to make excuses for or to downplay the problems caused by radical Islam and I’ve posted my opinions on it here in the past.

However, evidence matters and you haven’t backed up your assertion that radical Islam is on the rise in the Netherlands. Please show a bit more respect to fellow posters as we are not idiots here who just get convinced by mere opinions when it comes to trends.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Exactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

yes. One terror attack does prove that terrorism is a huge problem in the Netherlands. ;)

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Exactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

So you went to it? You know that they discussed how to combat it? You are just saying random things that sound like they could have happened. You have absolutely no evidence of what was discussed exactly at the seminar and you have no other evidence that the rise of radical islam in the netherlands has continued. End of story.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I’m not the type who tries to make excuses for or to downplay the problems caused by radical Islam and I’ve posted my opinions on it here in the past.

Exactly, it exists. There is lots of it. But claiming everything done by a Muslim to be an act of radical Islamic terrorism is absolute B.S. and shows a racist attitude towards a group of people.

If that were the case, then radical white terrorism is a much bigger problem, don't you think?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Exactly, it exists. There is lots of it. But claiming everything done by a Muslim to be an act of radical Islamic terrorism is absolute B.S. and shows a racist attitude towards a group of people.

If that were the case, then radical white terrorism is a much bigger problem, don't you think?

Some Muslims are bad, some Christians are bad, some Jews are bad, some atheists are bad, some white people are bad etc. Some people are just bad regardless of religion or race. This man might just be bad.

Radical white terrorism is a a problem and we all remember the likes of Anders Brevik, but if we look at the Netherlands and Europe as a whole, there is a disproportionate amount of terrorism from Islamic fanatics. I’m not saying this man was motivated by Islamic fanaticism without evidence, but the disproportionate number of terrorists killing in the name of their ideology in Europe is something we need to be honest about.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ Deadforgood

Muslims are not a race.

You keep making the same error again and again!

This is why you need to go away and think before dropping labels like ‘racist’ in your comments

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Its very likely this was a terrorist attack from an extremist Muslim. Nobody is arguing that. It's also very likely it was a domestic dispute.

Don't domestic dispute typically happen in the home? Not on trams?

Dutch police have said they don't know yet. Jumping to conclusions that it was an act of terror on the public because the man is from Turkey is racist. 

It was an act of terror on the public. Not because the man is from Turkey, but because he boarded a public tram and began indiscriminately killing people. That's an act of terror.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

kurisupisuToday  11:21 am JST

@ Deadforgood

Muslims are not a race.

You keep making the same error again and again!

This is why you need to go away and think before dropping labels like ‘racist’ in your comments

Unthinkingly calling people "racist" seems to be a common go-to tactic for many folks of a certain political persuasion.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

"It's frightening that something like this can happen so close to home," said Omar Rahhou, who said his parents lived on a street cordoned off by police. "These things normally happen far away but this brings it very close, awful."

Considering that this is the continent that only recently brought two world wars with tens of millions killed, I cannot agree with his statement.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Don't domestic dispute typically happen in the home? Not on trams?

I don't know the degree to which it happens on trams or trains, but domestic disputes can and often do happen anywhere, not just in the home.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

JimizoToday 11:01 am JSTExactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

Can you give us something more up to date or is it just your opinion that the threat posed by radical Islam is on the rise?

I’m not the type who tries to make excuses for or to downplay the problems caused by radical Islam and I’ve posted my opinions on it here in the past.

However, evidence matters and you haven’t backed up your assertion that radical Islam is on the rise in the Netherlands. Please show a bit more respect to fellow posters as we are not idiots here who just get convinced by mere opinions when it comes to trends.

takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com

Today 11:02 am JST

Exactly, it was the seminar that was conducted over 11 years ago of the rise of radical Islam in the Netherlands and how to combat it. And now we see I more evident than ev before.

yes. One terror attack does prove that terrorism is a huge problem in the Netherlands. ;)

Have we forgotten about Libya under Moammar Qaddaffy? He committed gross terrorist acts in Europe, the Med, Middle East and half of Africa. Islam is the prevailing religion in Libya but his motive behind it all had nothing to do with God, religion, Islam, or even anything political. He was just a pest, a brat - his terrorism were violent 'pranks'. He was the kid in the back of your HS science class throwing junk at other students.  A pain in the butt. After he grew up (physically) and overthrew the Libyan king he did his childish pranks with deadly results. An air and sea war with the US in 1985-86 slowed his activity. Now that he's gone there are still terrorists - radical religious and not.

Then there are the anti-globalist anarchists who disrupt rallies everywhere, like what's been happening in Paris this weekend.  

Not all terrorism is, or ever was exclusively due to religious extremism.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Unthinkingly calling people "racist" seems to be a common go-to tactic for many folks of a certain political persuasion.

Yeah, the right is horrible for doing that, while at the same time trying to pretend it's the other party that is racist, as if we didn't have 50 years of history to look at.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It's frightening that something like this can happen so close to home," said Omar Rahhou, who said his parents lived on a street cordoned off by police. "These things normally happen far away but this brings it very close, awful."

Considering that this is the continent that only recently brought two world wars with tens of millions killed, I cannot agree with his statement.

Only recently? The vast majority of people alive in Europe don’t remember WW2.

I think it’s understandable that people in the Netherlands don’t expect to see people running amok with firearms.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Muslims are not a race.

You keep making the same error again and again!

This is why you need to go away and think before dropping labels like ‘racist’ in your comments

I fully understand this. But it doesn't make any difference. When people like you see someone in a burqa, you think "Terrorist". It's Islamophobia, would you prefer I use that word? Fine sure, but Islamophobia and racism are connected. Here is a few articles for you, who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and can't explain themselves.

https://www.futurity.org/islamophobia-race-culture-religion-1543972/

http://theconversation.com/why-uks-working-definition-of-islamophobia-as-a-type-of-racism-is-a-historic-step-107657

Don't try to play these games, you will lose. What was WWII all about? Was it Hitlers campaign to exterminate a race? Or was it a campaign to exterminate a religion? Or was it both?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Back on topic please.

Don't domestic dispute typically happen in the home? Not on trams?

You don't know what a domestic dispute is...Why does an argument between two people who live together have to happen inside their home?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I fully understand this. But it doesn't make any difference. When people like you see someone in a burqa, you think "Terrorist". It's Islamophobia, would you prefer I use that word? Fine sure, but Islamophobia and racism are connected. Here is a few articles for you, who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and can't explain themselves.

Just use the word 'bigot'. It shuts up these people who try to defend bigotry through criticizing the use of the word 'racism' when it's a ethnic issue rather than a racial one, and being a bigot is just as despicable as being a racist.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Not because the man is from Turkey, but because he boarded a public tram and began indiscriminately killing people.

Ok, so how about when Christians mass murder people in America? Is that Terrorism? A lot of right wing folks disagree and call it a lone nutter with a gun.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Unthinkingly calling people "racist" seems to be a common go-to tactic for many folks of a certain political persuasion.

The right wings "go-to tactic" for sure.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Reports now say it was an "honor killing" of a female relative along with two other tram passengers who tried to help her.

"Honor killings" have no place in a country like Holland. I don't care if they are part of somebody's culture. Killing for "honor" is not something we should have to tolerate in the name of "diversity."

I hope we're allowed to say that, without being called "racist" for it.

Also, the accused gunman has a long arrest record in Holland -- including arrests for rape, attempted manslaughter, and robbery.

It really makes me wonder why this guy was allowed into Holland. The West should really tighten its procedures on who they allow in and who they don't.

I have no problem with immigration, especially as I am of mixed Japanese-German parentage, but the benefit to the hosting country must be considered first, as well as the safety of those who are already citizens.

I hope we're allowed to say that too, without being called "racist" for it.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Deadforgood

Here is the OED definition of Islamophobia:

Dislike of or a prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.

I don’t like religion of any kind including Islam.

I have no dislike or prejudice against Muslims.

I don’t like the idea of any religion as a political force including Islam.

Am I Islamophobic?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

JenniSchiebelToday  11:54 am JST

Reports now say it was an "honor killing" of a female relative along with two other tram passengers who tried to help her.

"Honor killings" have no place in a country like Holland. I don't care if they are part of somebody's culture. Killing for "honor" is not something we should have to tolerate in the name of "diversity."

You were just arguing that it was no doubt a terrorist attack...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

But claiming everything done by a Muslim to be an act of radical Islamic terrorism is absolute B.S. and shows a racist attitude towards a group of people.

Islam is not a race.

As for this guy in Holland, it was reported an "honor killing." A female relative was his victim, as were two other tram passengers who tried to help her.

"Honor killings" come to us from Islamic societies. It is not "racist" to say that. It is the truth.

Do all Muslims approve of such "honor killings"? No, of course not.

But when an "honor killing" happens in Europe, it is never a European doing it. This type of horrible act is "imported."

I'm all for immigration -- but I would insist that people who immigrate leave the worst aspects of their culture behind.

They have no right to import such aspects, and then demand that the society which was good enough to take them in has to tolerate such aspects in the name of "diversity."

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Also, the accused gunman has a long arrest record in Holland -- including arrests for rape, attempted manslaughter, and robbery.

It really makes me wonder why this guy was allowed into Holland. The West should really tighten its procedures on who they allow in and who they don't.

America has a much tighter regulation on immigration than Europe, as we don't offer immediate sanctuary upon arrival. That's why we have so many little children in jail cells right now.

I have no problem with immigration, especially as I am of mixed Japanese-German parentage, but the benefit to the hosting country must be considered first, as well as the safety of those who are already citizens.

I agree, unless it mean unethical treatment of others and xenophobic policy that tries to scare an entire nation into thinking brown people are all rapists...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Can you give us something more up to date or is it just your opinion that the threat posed by radical Islam is on the rise?

It wouldn’t matter if I did, it doesn’t pass the liberal narrative, why bother.

I’m not the type

Yes, sadly you are and yes you do, Jim

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Am I Islamophobic?

I don't think so.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

So you went to it? You know that they discussed how to combat it?

Not THAT particular event, but similar ones in Germany.

You are just saying random things that sound like they could have happened.

No, I’m not.

Exactly, it exists. There is lots of it. But claiming everything done by a Muslim to be an act of radical Islamic terrorism is absolute B.S. and shows a racist attitude towards a group of people.

If that were the case, then radical white terrorism is a much bigger problem, don't you think

No one is disputing that, but you have to be unwilling impervious to wanting to even acknowledge the truth of the matter that radical Islam has been a huge problem for years and as a result, you are seeing at least in Europe a growing response and a resistance to that threat and it doesn’t matter how the liberal media tries to sugarcoat it to frame it into their identity politics narrative. Calling it out doesn’t make a person racist or being accepting of it.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

I'm all for immigration -- but I would insist that people who immigrate leave the worst aspects of their culture behind.

I wish this were true as well, America's history is full of disgusting behavior brought over be immigrants who colonized there.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I don’t like the idea of any religion as a political force including Islam.

Am I Islamophobic?

I don't like the idea of any religion as a political force anywhere either. We must keep church/mosque/synagogue/temple separate from the state.

And 'honor killings' are not a tenet of Islam anymore than these sick 'chastity balls' or 'Catholic' private schools are a Christian tenet. All these BS 'traditions' that fundamentalists add to their religions are not religious tenets, they are* human traditions *NOT from God.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The killer is more criminal than terrorist. Probably not a random attack.

Muslim/Christians/Jews, non are a separate race.

The last terrorist attack in Holland was in 2007 but recent increases in Islamic extremism and number of radicals. Also an increase in right wing extremist groups.

https://www.counterextremism.com/countries/netherlands

3 ( +5 / -2 )

No one is disputing that, but you have to be unwilling impervious to wanting to even acknowledge the truth of the matter that radical Islam has been a huge problem for years and as a result, you are seeing at least in Europe a growing response and a resistance to that threat and it doesn’t matter how the liberal media tries to sugarcoat it to frame it into their identity politics narrative. Calling it out doesn’t make a person racist or being accepting of it.

Here's what I think, They've been saying there is a growth in radical Islam terror in Europe for quite some time now but it doesn't seem like there are any more than there were 5, 10 years ago. A steady plateau. Can you show any evidence that proves its been growing?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Pretty sure most cultures have or had some sort of "honor killing" system, not just Islam. Even in Japan, there was a history of honor killings. Do they still continue them, mostly no. But neither do most Muslims. And you're trying to convince people that honor killings are exclusive to Islam.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Not THAT particular event, but similar ones in Germany.

Which ones, if you went, should be pretty easy to indicate.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I’m not the type 

Yes, sadly you are and yes you do, Jim

I just posted I’m not the type to make excuses for or play down the problem of radical Islamism. I went on to point out that it is a disproportionate threat. Stop posting glaringly incorrect things and for once provide relevant sources for your claims.

@Deadforgood

I do seem fit in 2 of the 3 categories which identify an Islamophobe as defined by the OED.

It’s a very problematic word. Some Muslims dislike the idea of Islam as a political force.

Is there a poster here who doesn’t fit in to at least one category?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Is there a poster here who doesn’t fit in to at least one category?

I think anybody who is not religious under that definition, may fit under the category of Islamophobic.

There are reasons why its tied to racism here as well. A lot of people identify Muslims by their appearance. Don't you guys remember all the stuff about airport security after 9/11? People were freaking out because Indians were sharing the same flight. India isn't an Islamic nation. But they were, and still are, commonly categorized as Muslims by stupid white people (Not all, just the stupid ones).

4 ( +5 / -1 )

It’s a very problematic word. Some Muslims dislike the idea of Islam as a political force.

So I agree, it is a problematic word. SO is racism. And people like to argue that racism is bound by ethnicity but its not, really. By definition it is. By practice, it isn't.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Is there a poster here who doesn’t fit in to at least one category?

I think anybody who is not religious under that definition, may fit under the category of Islamophobic

This is the problem with the word. It’s seen as something at the level of racism but most people are Islamophobic to some degree, and most people dislike the idea of religion as a political force.

Can’t we be more honest and precise and call out ‘anti-Muslim bigots’?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Wait, am I right, or am I wrong?

Sadly, wrong.

Of course no country is perfect, but Jenni said immigrants should be forced to give up the bad parts of their culture when immigrating.

I agree.

When my great-grandparents immigrated to the US, they completely assimilated, they learned English, the custom, the culture and tried to fit in, whatever they took from the old country, they kept that at home, they never imposed or demanded anything.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

the custom, the culture and tried to fit in

Who defines American culture?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The shooter is on film in 2011 berating a woman on the street for being dressed "immodestly", and praising Shria. So much for the narrative that hes not an Islamist.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Kestrel.... really??? Hmm....curiouser and curiouser.. .

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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