China's Xi calls for fairer world order as rivalry with U.S. deepens

Let's get this straight a minute.

Question. Why do people throughout the world generally feel warm towards Taiwan and less so towards China? Mostly the same Han Chinese people, no?

So, if it's not the people that we are discussing here then, what on earth could it be??? :puzzled:

So when China was poor and a place for western companies to exploit workers its was fine to turn a blind eye to their internal issues, but now that they've gotten 800 million plus people out of poverty and have developed their economy and don't want to be exploited anymore - they are bad....ok I guess China serves no purpose now so lets all get self righteous...

PS My experiences were in several visits to Dalian, where I felt free to wander around and chat with people at the university and in the main plaza downtown for example.

Desert Tortoise, thank you for that angle on things past and present.

That all brings back vivid memories of Wild Swans by Jung Chang, and The Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan, both excellent reads if anyone here has not read them.

Goodlucktoyou, I have and I loved what I saw and experienced there. The people were warm and friendly, and I have almost 100% good memories.

You are a visitor. The Red Guard took our family home in Shanghai, banished momma from the classroom (she taught elementary school age kids) and exiled the whole family to a rural area a couple of hours from Shanghai. My wife was born after they were exiled and grew up in abject poverty while a party cadre still lives in our family's old home in what was once the French Concession. Even after the party allowed her to return to Shanghai she was never allowed to teach again (even as her neighbors to this day call her Teacher followed by her family name which I will not repeat here). My wife was not permitted to move to Shanghai for a few more years. Imagine having to beg your government to be allowed to move somehwere else! So very far from 100% good memories. My wife will tell you "Mao took everything". The bitterness never goes away. You are just a tourist and do not see the truth about China. We know the avarice and cruelty of the CCP first hand.

All you sinophobes should actually go to China take a walk around.

I have. I have family there. Even in China's second most populous and their wealthiest city, Shanghai, the tap water is dangerous to drink. You go to a really fancy restaurant in Qibao Old Town and in the men's room there are no paper towels, hot air hand dryer or soap to wash hands with. You see the cooks pulling up their trousers after taking care of business, quick rinse and back to the kitchen. About hurled seeing that but it is common in China. Even in Fudan University Children's Hospital there was no soap in the men's room and no towels. Blood samples were drawn from the necks of screaming kids in a hallway with all and sundry walking past. I still get a chill remembering that. Little waterways run through the city filled with putrid black water. There is no thought given to disabled people anywhere. The air is gross. Rain drops have tiny specks of dirt in them. Everything is gritty dirty outside. Everything is heavily censored. Without a VPN you cannot load any of the websites we are familiar with. There's a little cop shop in every apartment and condo complex keeping an eye on everyone. Surveillance cameras on big arms over every street. Unlike any other place I have traveled to China doesn't allow foreigners to drive or rent cars. Driving anything requires a license and getting a license requires a Hukou. In fact without a Hukou allowing someone to reside in a particular place even a Chinese person cannot get a license or any other public service. The government can dictate where you live and thus where you many legally obtain public services or send a child to school through their control of the Hukou. It is something that would never be tolerated in a democracy.

Corrected post: Confidence in China's ability to self-correct is diminishing. According to a new report by Reporters Without Borders, which evaluates press freedom in 180 countries and territories annually, China ranks 177th among this year's Index of the worst countries having “very bad,” “bad” or “problematic” environments for press freedom.

Confidence in China's ability to self-correct is diminishing. According to a new report by Reporters Without Borders, China ranks 177th among this year's Index’s of the worst countries on the planet.

"The world wants justice, not hegemony," Xi said in remarks broadcast to the forum. "A big country should look like a big country by showing that it is shouldering more responsibility," he said.

Good to hear him say this. Maybe now the C.C.P. will shoulder some responsibility, particularly since it is the expressed opinion of international legal experts that the suffering of the Uighurs in the hands of the C.C.P. is actus reus of the crime of genocide. Evidence of systematic rape and torture in Xinjiang is all evidence of biological and social destruction (even, extermination) that cannot be dismissed by telling the rest of the world to look at itself in the mirror. The international community, under norms of international law, must be their judge.

China's position would be easier to take seriously if it were not a one party fascist dictatorship. Whatever gripes one may have about the U.S., China is a far cry from a desireable replacement.

What Xi means is the US has been top dog for too long, time for a change.

And China would like to take the lead? Lol

Goodlucktoyou, I have and I loved what I saw and experienced there. The people were warm and friendly, and I have almost 100% good memories.

If you cannot see the problem being discussed here, then I cannot explain it to you.

All you sinophobes should actually go to China take a walk around.

China No. 2 GDP and No. 1 GDP(PPP) in the world is hardly a "developing nation." That's like a student from a family with an annual income in the millions receiving Pell Grants and financial aid. The WTO needs to change that status.

this would be comedy gold if it wasn't sick.

Yeah, lets all change the rules to suit....China. Sounds reasonable. The world is rapidly tiring of the BS that Chine sprouts.

Hard to believe that just over a year ago our ex-President was saying this about Xi;

“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”

It's pretty clear that if COVID didn't derail his re-election and he didn't need a scapegoat, Trump would be continuing to extol his admiration for Xi, just like he does with Putin...

They all three share the same views on freedom and democracy...

"Xi the Justice Warrior!"

Too funny!

Xi calling for a fairer world order is like James Harden calling for fairer refereeing. Or Diego Costa, if you like football.

I don’t want to be influenced by the CCP regime in any way shape or form.

The world wants justice, not hegemony," Xi said in remarks broadcast to the forum.

Globally, peoples want the Government of China to cease/abstain from the appalling human rights abuses, the torture of its people, the brutal oppressive practices, collective punishment beatings to Hong Kong students simply yearning for freedom and democracy.  

To refrain from bully neighbors.   

To dismantle the fortified sandcastles littered across the South China Sea.

To desist their preposterous claims to areas, oceans and islands they have never had any right to seize.

To respect Intellectual property rights.

To abide by international laws and practices in regard to currency manipulation.  

Justice, the Government of China has never understood the meaning of the word

"The world wants justice, not hegemony," Xi said in remarks broadcast to the forum.

We've found our Chinese version of Wolfpack.

Winnie's "fairer world order" = "Communist dominated world order".

Duh.

But Xi, it's not the U.S. that is taking over the islands of other countries in the South and East China Seas and turning them into military bases. Why is China demanding fairness when they're the ones doing the stealing?

@smith - agree

Xi is talking the talk, can’t see him walking the walk

I can't disagree with some of the points President Pooh bear is saying.

I'd love to hear the the Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Tibetans and Uyghurs have to say ... assuming they won't be jailed, rounded up, charged with crimes created 2 yrs later and beaten - or, I'm sorry, "re-educated." It is important that I use the correct terms.

Would love it if CCP-Chinese backed crackers would stop cracking into computer systems around the world too. Has China ever arrested anyone for computer cracking? Ever? The day after President Xi and President Obama agreed to a no-cracking each other agreement in 2016, my servers were relentlessly attacked by servers in China. A few reminders:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/12/us-indicts-two-chinese-state-sponsored-hackers-for-attacks-on-msps-in-12-countries/

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2020/12/how-china-uses-stolen-us-personnel-data.html

https://www.theverge.com/2020/11/20/21585500/airbnb-trust-officer-resignation-privacy-concerns-china-data-sharing

https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/08/china_blocks_scratch_website/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/30/technology/US-Tech-Firms-and-Their-Chinese-Partnerships.html

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/08/chinese-hackers-have-pillaged-taiwans-semiconductor-industry/

https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/avago_spying_guilty/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10485560675556000

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-motorola-huawei/motorola-sues-huawei-for-trade-secret-theft-idUSTRE66L0J220100722

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/us/politics/china-phones-software-security.html

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/11/21364017/tiktok-mac-address-collected-identifier-android-violation

https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/23/cisco_counterfeiter_accounts_frozen/

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html

https://www.history.com/topics/china/tiananmen-square

Everyone likes to be treated fairly. China has a cutting edge space program, nuclear power, nuclear weapons, and still uses the WTO label of "developing nation" to gain advantage from countries required to provide subsidies for all sorts of things under WTO rules. Hardly seems fair.

State backing of industries that China has decided to enter where they subsidize costs to drive out of the market the competition is a main way that other countries/businesses don't think China plays fair. Europe and the US do that for some things - selected agriculture crops, selected military equipment, but not for hundreds of industries.

The lack of free speech in CCP-China is something I struggle over. 5 yrs ago, I was 100% freedom of speech at all costs. Then the wacko liars found followers online claiming crazy ideas were facts. That got me to re-think the power of harmful speech. Dictator run countries have too much control over what is determined harmful speech. I don't know where the best spot is on that scale. I'm probably more tolerant than most people would like, just label it as lies on every platform for things that can factually be known.

For example, we factually know that President Xi doesn't like to be called or compared to Pooh Bear. That fact cannot be censored by any govt.

We hope for change - by all countries.

Quote: "The biggest experience that China's accession to the World Trade Organization 20 years ago is that we Chinese are not afraid of competition," Long Yongtu，China's former chief negotiator for the China's WTO entry in 2001, told the forum on Monday.

Well, maybe that’s what Long Yongtu said, but it makes no sense. Something lost in translation?

Re ‘Hegemony’.

China is the No. 1 culprit, aggressively leading the way, drawing dotted lines and annexing everything included within.

Fair enough. Allow your citizens to vote on who leads them. Respect the 97 agreement on Hong Kong. Respect the ruling against you on the S. China sea dispute.

Then we can talk.