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Scotland leader puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

15 Comments
By Guy Faulconbridge

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The SNP won the political argument for Independence decades ago.

The crucial sticking point is the economic case. And the wrangling between pro-independence analysis and bodies like the IFS (institute of Fiscal Studies)

So two opposing examinations/examples....

Scotland’s implicit budget deficit could be around 26-28% of GDP in 2020-21.....

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/14982

Or....

Revealed: The ACCOUNTING TRICK that Hides Scotland’s Wealth (2020)

https://www.businessforscotland.com/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/

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She's got no chance of a referendum - she herself at the time, stated the 2014 referndum was " once in a generation" . Boris will tell her to go and f*** herself

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First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon, is in many respects, politically, her own worst enemy.

Nicola Sturgeon nationalism reaches right to the marrow of SNP policy agenda, at the detriment of any coherent economic, fiscal, monetary policy strategy after independence.

Nicola Sturgeon bitter belligerence to the English is bordering on a deep-seated irrational persecution complex.

Even in the midst of a pandemic Nicola Sturgeon main focus is political points scoring to secure a referendum at any cost.

Reach out to the English people, friends not foes.

Instead of thwarting Boris Johnson Government at every turn, be patient.

The Scottish Parliament election is scheduled to be held on 6 May 2021.

Until then win over the other nations within the Union.

Be Humble, point out the need for a democratic mandate, the people Scotland need accountably directly to there elected SMP.

Most importantly with the continued economic assistance from the Union.

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Nicola Sturgeon bitter belligerence to the English

I don't see that. Anti-Westminster for sure, but so are so many people in various parts of England. In some polls, she's more popular in England than Johnson:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sturgeon-for-pm-snp-leader-more-popular-than-boris-johnson-in-england/24/10/

In her own words (from July this year):

There's not an anti-English bone in my body, I don't have an anti-English fibre in my being. I come from partly English stock, my grandmother was English and I lead a party that is full of English people.

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I’ve lived in both England and Scotland. Love both but they are definitely different countries.

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The United Kingdom is made up of four countries with their own nationality and culture. Even own languages.

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Good for them. I think it's high time for a Scotxit. The previous referendum voted to stay by a pretty narrow margin and a great deal of exit polling showed that a major reason people chose to vote against independence was because remaining part of the UK would allow them to remain part of the EU. However, that is no longer the case. Brexit was a tectonic shift and one that is so massive and fundamental, it only makes sense that the people be allowed to reconsider their previous choices in light of this new development. If the referendum were held today, it would be a safe bet that Scotland would vote for independence by a pretty solid margin.

As Brexiteer David Davis put it: "If a democracy cannot change its mind, then it ceases to be a democracy."

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Bojo shot himself in the foot on the matter of Scottish independence by calling devolution a "disaster north of the border". Bojo also managed to get the normally reserved Welsh First Minister angry with his comments. Bojo has added insult to injury with the UK Internal Market bill that would force lower UK food safety and other standards including environmental protection laws on Wales and Scotland. Bojo is trying to use shipyard work resulting from his stated desire to rebuild the Royal Navy as a reason for the Scots to remain. I frankly don't think the British Exchequer has the resources, and especially so after Brexit, so we'll see how much traction that one gains.

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Albaleo, no denying that Nicola Sturgeon reiterated the statement that her mindset compels Nicola Sturgeon to be a fervent Anglophile.  You believe that?

Do actions speak louder than words?

Nicola Sturgeon:

"This is a virus that obviously travels across borders very easily and I suspect over the summer we did get very close to elimination in Scotland and then, not entirely, but we've reseeded it from travel across the UK and internationally so border control I think is an important consideration here."

This reply was to a question to set up a hard boarder control between England and Scotland.

This is disingenuous rhetorical unnecessary insinuation. Inflammatory, pandering to the core SNP antagonistic nationalist element that foster an innate hostility to the English.

Yet the SNP political logic is that, Nicola Sturgeon depends on the hard-core nationalists for their support, to deliver indyref2.

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She's got no chance of a referendum - she herself at the time, stated the 2014 referndum was " once in a generation" . Boris will tell her to go and f*** herself

I doubt Johnson can dictate to Scotland or the 6 counties for much longer. Especially in the case of the latter, with Biden keeping a keen eye on the Brexit debacle.

There will be another Scotland referendum, whether it's Johnson or Sunak in charge. Or Starmer...

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Nicola Sturgeon opened the SNP annual conference calling all present to action, It “never been so certain” that Scotland will achieve independence.

Independence from whom?

Why won’t the SNP politically call a spade a spade, and state Independent from England!?

“Scotland is now a nation on the cusp of making history. Independence is in clear sight – and with unity of purpose, humility and hard work I have never been so certain that we will deliver it. The people of Scotland have the right to choose their future. Let’s now focus all our efforts on making sure we bring about that better country they and future generations deserve.”

Yet in the same breath …

What is the SNP’s position on the EU?

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-what-is-the-snp-s-position-on-the-eu/

There is no such scenario as political and financial/economic independence as a member state within the EU.

All member states are subject to treaty law.

Stability and Growth Pact

https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/economic-and-fiscal-policy-coordination/eu-economic-governance-monitoring-prevention-correction/stability-and-growth-pact_en

EU banking and financial services law…

https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/eu-banking-and-financial-services-law_en

There is no means of challenge or method to apply flexibility.

This is why I question Nicola Sturgeon/SNP reasoning for a second referendum.

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@itsonlyrockandroll

 Nicola Sturgeon depends on the hard-core nationalists for their support, to deliver indyref2

That doesn't make any sense to me. The hard core nationalist nutters will always vote for independence, in the same way British nationalist nutters would always vote for Brexit. No need to pander. It's the non-nationalists like myself and probably most of the Scottish population she has to persuade. Judging by polls, she's been doing not a bad job so far.

This reply was to a question to set up a hard boarder control between England and Scotland.

I think that question was from Willie Rennie (Liberal leader in Scotland) who comes over as somewhat hysterical. If we have restrictions on travel within Scotland between local authority areas, it seems reasonable to also consider restrictions on travel between Scotland and England. People in Edinburgh can't travel to where I live under current restrictions. Would it be innate hostility if people from Newcastle weren't allowed to travel here either?

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albaleo, Nicola Sturgeon is a seasoned, skilled, and gifted politician.

In many respects, way beyond the capabilities Boris Johnson's Government ham fisted politically dysfunctional response, coupled with the economic realities of this pandemic.

Sturgeon plays Johnson like and accordion, squeezebox.

albaleo, would you forgive me for not wanting to purse the Scottish or British nationalist theme, even thought I brought the subject up.

My contention is Nicola Sturgeon/SNP reasoning and timing behind a push for another independence referendum, is in many respects a life long ambition.

And Nicola Sturgeon motivation is open to debate.

I wholehearted, politically believe Scotland should be a Independent country.

It all depends on how one defines independence

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My contention is Nicola Sturgeon/SNP reasoning and timing behind a push for another independence referendum, is in many respects a life long ambition.

OK. I can probably go along partly with that. She is a politician after all, and we can argue that the successful ones are driven more by ambition than ideas.

It all depends on how one defines independence

That could take forever. :-) But a simple version of the question in Scotland might be, "Would you prefer to be independent like Denmark or independent like the UK?" I think a fair proportion of the Scottish population would prefer the Danish version.

And while I'm a supporter of an independent Scotland, I worry more about it now than at the last referendum, as England will not be an EU member. That raises lots of issues.

But I suspect my main motivation for supporting Scottish independence is a wish to see an end to what I see as an antiquated UK. During my lifetime, I've watched countries such as the USA, Germany and Japan build modern technologies and industries while here in Britain it seemed to remain all scones and tea towels.

I'd also be interested in alternative ideas - eg. moving the UK parliament out of London (e.g. to Coventry), or more devolved powers to English regions. Meanwhile, I'll support Winnie Ewing's election slogan from the 1960s, "Stop the world, Scotland wants to get on."

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For viewers not familiar with Winnie Ewing

Historic victory for SNP in Hamilton byelection, 1967 - archive

3 November 1967: Winfred Ewing’s victory over Labour serves the London-based parties with a clear warning that Scotland is increasingly impatient about Westminster’s failure to solve its special problems.....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/03/snp-winifred-ewing-hamilton-byelection-victory-1967

albaleo, independence and EU membership are politically a misnomer in many respects.

Treaty law trounces the concept of political and economic independence.

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