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Splits deepen over British ex-minister Johnson's burqa comments

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Just let adult grown women dress as they please.

A little tolerance is in order here.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

It is not about tolerance, it is about women and religion intolerance from Muslims.

Burqa shall be banned as you don't even see eyes ! (Like any clothing if not for any event reason).

Europeans have fought hundreds years to get rid of religion demands. Coming back more and more.

Tolerance is respect to all and safety first for women.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Surely if the Moslems can oppose aspects of life such as same-sex marriage, fornication, alcohol (to mention just a few) while condoning FGM, under-age marriage and the stoning to death of adulterers,they should be tolerant enough to accept criticism of the Burka.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Just let adult grown women dress as they please.

A little tolerance is in order here.

Agree 100%.

It's not about what non-Muslims think of the burqa. It's about respecting the cultural and religious rights of those who choose to wear it. That's what Western society is supposed to be about.

Johnson really didn't need to open his mouth on this subject. Sheer dog-whistling.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Every country has its rules and customs, if yoy come to another country respect its rules and customs. Want to wear burqa? Wear it where they are allowed, do not force locals to accept traditions alien to them. "In Rome do as Romans do".

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Every country has its rules and customs, but it's not a rule in Boris's country, the UK, that you can't wear a burqa. It's not a rule in my country, Australia, either. Or the US. Or Japan. Or in many other countries across the world.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do?"

Well - in Rome, too, buddy, you can wear a burqa if you want.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

If I say seig hell in Germany = 6 months in prison, lose of job, no payments to the bank, so become homeless.

in the UK, the second top dog can publicly say the same, but will be the next PM.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

It's not about what non-Muslims think of the burqa.

In some Muslim-majority countries, Muslims ban the Burqa, often citing security issues.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Who here has harmed by a woman wearing a burka?

How has she harmed or hurt you?

Do tell.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Surely if the Moslems can oppose aspects of life such as same-sex marriage, fornication, alcohol (to mention just a few) while condoning FGM, under-age marriage and the stoning to death of adulterers,they should be tolerant enough to accept criticism of the Burka.

Because all Muslims think and do alike.

Sarcasm.

Johnson's playing to the far right on this. A dangerous grouping to court.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The comments came in a Aug. 5 piece arguing against a ban on the Islamic full-face veil, but have been criticised as Islamophobic.

I wish people would stop using the silly word ‘islamophobic’. What does this word even mean? Many Muslims strongly oppose the wearing of the Burqa. Are they ‘islamophobic’?

This word is used to shut down all criticism of a belief, regardless of whether that criticism is legitimate or not.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Johnson's playing to the far right on this

Johnson, as we all know, is an amoral opportunist but in this case, he isn’t playing to just the far right. According to a recent YouGov poll, two-thirds of Tory voters want a ban on the Burqa, and about a third of Labour and Libdem voters feel the same.

A majority of the country see it as undesirable even if they don’t support an outright ban.

Johnson knows his numbers.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I wish people would stop using the silly word ‘islamophobic’. What does this word even mean? Many Muslims strongly oppose the wearing of the Burqa. Are they ‘islamophobic’?

Context. The most vocal opponents of Muslims don't see any distinction between those who wear the garb and those that don't. Between everyday, ordinary people and terrorists.

Just have a butchers at some of the comments anytime there's an opportunity to denigrate Muslims. It's as if Islam is one homogenous mono thought entity.

I believe you're intelligent and educated enough to know exactly what's meant by the word.

A majority of the country see it as undesirable even if they don’t support an outright ban.

If women are being subjugated, of course it's undesirable. But not all women who wear it would say they are being subjugated.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Just have a butchers at some of the comments anytime there's an opportunity to denigrate Muslims. It's as if Islam is one homogenous mono thought entity.

I had in mind the comment earlier on that “It’s not what non-Muslims think of the burqa”. The opinions of many Muslims who oppose the burqa need to be kept in mind and the idea of Muslims themselves banning the burqa on security grounds is an issue worth considering.

My gripe with the word ‘islamophobia’ is that it is used to shut down criticism. The word itself is very suspicious - fear of a belief? There are aspects of Islam that reformist Muslims oppose and people who don’t have bigoted views oppose. They are often tarred with this silly word.

I think anti-Muslim bigotry is a real and awful thing. Judge people by what they believe on an individual basis but don’t give appalling opinions a pass because they are religious beliefs - same goes for all religions. Unfortunately, polls tell us that very discriminatory views towards women are more prevalent in the Muslim community than in the population at large. This is something reformist Muslims are honest about and they are vital in bringing about reform.

Let’s call it ‘anti-Muslim bigotry’ and stop using words like islamphobia. It is very unhelpful to reformists and those seeking an honest discussion.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My gripe with the word ‘islamophobia’ is that it is used to shut down criticism.

Mate, you've read all sorts of comments over your time online. Genuine criticism should always be entertained - whatever religion is being discussed. But some people just see red when there's a hint of Islam in a topic. Be it an Islamic Center in Chiba, or a multi-faith prayer room in Narita.

Judge people by what they believe on an individual basis but don’t give appalling opinions a pass because they are religious beliefs - same goes for all religions.

In total agreement, there.

Let’s call it ‘anti-Muslim bigotry’ and stop using words like islamphobia. It is very unhelpful to reformists and those seeking an honest discussion.

Jimizo, if you want to call it anti-Muslim bigotry - go for it. I'd see it as that but I'd also see it as a phobia, as per examples above.

And Johnson is preying on peoples fears and phobias.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The opinions of many Muslims who oppose the burqa need to be kept in mind and the idea of Muslims themselves banning the burqa on security grounds is an issue worth considering.

The opinions of those Muslims who oppose the burqa are one thing, the opinions of those Muslims who see the burqa as an essential component of their version of Islam are another. The views of the former (just like the views of the non-Muslim population) should not infringe on the rights of the latter. In my opinion.

If there was to be a spate of terrorist incidents involving either burqa-wearing women or men disguising themselves in burqa, then I suppose there might be grounds for considering a ban in certain places and situations - although really, unless we're going to ban all garments that don't fit like a second skin, any terrorist would be able to conceal an explosives belt anyway, as they have done in so many incidents around the world. So what's the point?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

A new set of poll results show that the majority are on Boris Johnson‘s side when it comes to his comments about the burka.

It’s not racist to “describe women in burkas as letterboxes and bank robbers” according to a new poll by Sky Data. Only 33 per cent of respondents said it was racist – while 60 per cent said it wasn’t.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-burka-comments-racist-poll-result/

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Crazy Joe:

Well that just about reflects my upvote/downvote ratio here today.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Another aspect of wearing the Burqua is the refusal of the wearer to remove it in Court. Refusing to stand for the Judge also was demonstrated in a Court in Sydney (NSW) just recently by a Burqua wearer. Apparently. a devout Moslem will stand only for Allah. It's called "Diversity"

2 ( +3 / -1 )

But some people just see red when there's a hint of Islam in a topic

Yes, some of them are anti-Muslim bigots.

Some on the Muslim side shout ‘islamophobia’ whenever people want to have an honest discussion about the appalling views on women held by far too many in the Muslim community. The expression ‘islamphobic narrative’ seems to be a popular get our of jail free card.

I don’t see what positive use this very slippery word has.

People have discussed the idea of the Burqa being a woman’s choice. It is extremely difficult to judge how far women are being pressured, particularly if you take into account the idea that many of these women are from communities with some very disturbing views about the place of women. An ICM poll found 39% of British Muslims believed wives should always obey their husbands - this is miles above the national average.

Thankfully, there are reformers in the Muslim community who see these problems and are attempting to do something about it despite the fact that they are faced with charges of ‘islamophobia’.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

A white european woman wearing a full face scarf in winter... no problem.

An Arabic or black woman wearing a burqa... problem.

A racist double standard.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

A white European woman wearing a full face scarf in winter...no problem

An Arabic or black woman wearing a burqa... problem.

A racist double standard.

Some of the women wearing burqas are white.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

If Boris apologized he might say sorry for 1. the jokes and 2. for actually supporting a woman’s right to wear the burka in public in Britain. Only a small percentage of Muslim women insist on wearing versions of it, but he was clearly on their side, even if it does in his opinion look ridiculous.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People have discussed the idea of the Burqa being a woman’s choice. It is extremely difficult to judge how far women are being pressured, particularly if you take into account the idea that many of these women are from communities with some very disturbing views about the place of women.

I agree, same re other cultural/social (well sort of, wait for it ;) 'practices' though. We all know that a substantial number of women feel pressured into having anal sex, wearing sexy lingerie etc to 'please their man'. Should g strings be banned then?

Have always thought that banning the burqa to 'protect' women's dignity/rights was a tad hypocritical. Perhaps it needs to be banned (defo in some situations) but let's not kid ourselves, today's debate isn't about 'protecting Muslim women'. It's about telling ppl 'this is our country, not yours' & 'our country, our rules'.

Banning the burqa (or not) for the sake of social cohesion, secularism etc is imo the 'real' debate.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don’t see what positive use this very slippery word has.

Fair enough, you lean towards UK liberalism as is your right to.

But I've witnessed verbal and physical violence towards Muslims simply because they are of that faith.

To me (and that's my opinion) that's an actual phobia.

Johnson knows exactly what his comments will lead to. Fiendishly clever of him.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@ Toasted Heretic

How would you know what Muslim women want or don’t want?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

How would you know what Muslim women want or don’t want?

Maybe check back on my posts over the last year or so. Or ask your Muslim friends, colleagues, neighbours etc?

Just a thought.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Apparently. a devout Moslem will stand only for Allah. It's called "Diversity"

Know any, do you?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The false choice: Boris or the burqa.

Skrem both of 'em.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Toasted Heretic

Being a non Muslim male, it is some degree of trepidation that prevents me from approaching a Muslim female.

Being seen in conversation with me may have consequences for us both.

Maybe, you could suggest something?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And you also didn’t answer my question.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Being a non Muslim male, it is some degree of trepidation that prevents me from approaching a Muslim female.

Hmm. I found that growing up with Muslim kids, working for and alongside Muslims and having Muslim friends and neighbours, this wasn't a problem. But then, we don't have segregation or gated communities where I'm from.

Being seen in conversation with me may have consequences for us both.

Do you live in a strict country where that sort of thing is frowned on? That's awful.

Maybe, you could suggest something?

Treat Muslims as you would any other human being. It's really that simple.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Toasted Heretic.

I found this definition of ‘Islamophobia’ in the Oxford English Dictionary:

’Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.’

Let’s see. Just to stick with the monotheisms, I don’t like Islam. I don’t like Christianity either. I don’t have any time for Judaism. Overall, I see them as regressive ideas that we’d be better off without, although the more progressive forces in these religions are to be welcomed.

I’ve got no problem with individual Muslims, Christians or Jews but I will call out any bigoted ideas they hold based on their faith.

I think Islam as a political force has no place in a functionally secular country like the UK. None whatsoever. I do fear religion encroaching into politics.

According to the definition, I’d say I’m islamophobic. I’d say the vast majority of the UK are islamophobic. Many Muslims would be islamophobic.

How do you check out under the definition or do you have a different definition you work from?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

How do you check out under the definition or do you have a different definition you work from?

Half and half. Obviously, I don't dislike Muslims but I'm not a fan of religion, especially the Abrahamic ones. Unlike Tommeh and the other far right extremists, I don't have a phobia about Muslim people, which is why I chose to call what they say and do Islamaphobia.

I think Islam as a political force has no place in a functionally secular country like the UK. None whatsoever. I do fear religion encroaching into politics.

100% in agreement. So when Tommeh supporters and their ilk proclaim that the UK is a "christian country", they can sod right off, as well.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Toasted

It sounds like we are semi-islamophobes.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

It sounds like we are semi-islamophobes.

If you like, Jimizo. Tbf, with language in a constant state of flux combined with the normalisation of bigotry, lies and spin... it's hard to keep up, sometimes.

I've met Johnson and he has charisma, which is what makes him even more dangerous. That's the problem with the populist personalities, their faults (which are legion) tend to get overlooked by the voters.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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