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Boy Scouts of America to allow girls to join, earn Eagle Scout rank

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By Gina Cherelus and Bernie Woodall

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So what will the organization be called now? “Scouts?” Oh, identity politics will the downfall of the nation. Smh.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

And why not? It's not the Taliban, is it?

America is supposed to be inclusive and equal.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I was a Girl Guide. It was pretty lame. My brother got to do all kinds of cool stuff - the world jamborees, week long canoe trips, digging out holes in snowbanks and camping in them overnight. We learned to knit. Thankfully my Dad had been a Queen Scout (equivalent to the American Eagle), so we did cool camping stuff as a family and he taught me a lot of things. I still wish things had been coed in my day.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Oh, identity politics will the downfall of the nation. Smh.

You say that as if you aren't a major perpetrator of identity politics.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I’m not, I could care less about color.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

The Scouts have been mixed for years in England.

Girls can still join the Guides if they really want to stay separate, but three-quarters of all new scouts since 2014 have been girls.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

What next; women getting the vote?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

so can Boys join the Girl Scouts if they want?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

so can Boys join the Girl Scouts if they want?

See above article.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Probably a business decision.

After listening to taj, it sounds like there are quite a few differences in the groups and there are probably some girls who would rather do things the boys are doing.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"Girl Scouts remains committed to and believes strongly in the importance of the all-girl, girl-led and girl-friendly environment

So no, boys cannot join the Girl Scouts. But replace the word girl everywhere it appears in that statement with the word boy and you would have liberals protesting about what a horrible, sexist statement it was.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

So no, boys cannot join the Girl Scouts. But replace the word girl everywhere it appears in that statement with the word boy and you would have liberals protesting about what a horrible, sexist statement it was.

No not liberals, social justice warriors. They are not interchangeable. I'm a liberal, and I don't think that it's right that they would accept girls in the boys section but not vice-versa.

Disclaimer: My comment is made on the basis that girl scouts and boy scouts are the same organization. If they are separate organizations, then they have no obligation to match each other whatsoever.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

StrangerlandToday  02:08 pm JST

Disclaimer: My comment is made on the basis that girl scouts and boy scouts are the same organization. If they are separate organizations, then they have no obligation to match each other whatsoever.

They are totally separate organizations.

Boy Scouts was founded on frankly sexist notions of masculinity - that somehow a male isn't really a man until they know certain skills related to wilderness survival or country lifestyles. It has traditionally excluded girls for no better reason than the sexist notion that these skills are inherently boyish.

Girl Scouts was founded in part as a reaction to Boy Scouts but mostly in order to foster leadership skills in girls. It is not merely a parallel organization - the skills it teaches are designed to help women excel in the modern world. So while Boy Scouts teaches boys how to navigate in the woods by moss on tree trunks, Girl Scouts teaches entrepreneurship through local groups selling among other things, some of the best cookies available in the US.

Now the thing is, boys already have myriad chances to learn leadership and entrepreneurship in our culture. Just look at how many start-ups are founded by men. Girl Scouts specifically exists to address a lack of leadership training for girls. The thinking is, and there is some merit to it, that if boys were allowed in, sexist patterns in American culture would enable them to push the girls into the background. Sensible, rational people can argue about whether or not Girl Scouts succeeds in its mission or whether or not there is a better way to teach girls leadership skills, even if there are ways to teach girls leadership skills while allowing boys to learn those same leadership skills in the same organization. But it's just petulant pouting to pretend Girl Scounts are equivalently as discriminatory as Boy Scouts just because you're a boy throwing a tanty because you found one group boys can't join.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

But it's just petulant pouting to pretend Girl Scounts are equivalently as discriminatory as Boy Scouts just because you're a boy throwing a tanty because you found one group boys can't join.

It's a predictable familiar pattern; isn't it? Some insecure males feel they've been slighted and it turns into a bun fight.

See also: Black Lives Matter garners the "what about white lives" crowd and of Gay Pride attracts the "what about straight pride" anxious types.

This is a great story and I can't fathom how some here are claiming it's a downfall/end of days scenario.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Over 150 cases of child abuse in the Scouts have now been reported — and it's only likely to get worse-source the independent 2015

i was also a victim of physical and emotion abuse in the scouts. So including girls as well, I hate to think what these men might do.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So inclusion and unity and equal rights and all these buzz words don't apply when it's boys being discriminated against?

Not only can boys not have access to what the Girl Scouts have to offer they are also prevented from having the benefit of an all boy, man-led, boy friendly atmosphere that is so critical for girls but means nothing to boys.

Based on what Katsu said I would want my son in the Girl Scout programs but alas he can't and wouldn't be accepted if he did.

Same as anything else these days. Equality means you actually get more opportunities than I get so that you can complete against me "equally"?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So you want to be a girl scout Black?

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Based on the difference between "being taught how to navigate in the woods by moss on trees" and being taught programs about "entrepreneurship" and getting business experience in sales, yep.

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Oh but my ability to get beneficial skills from programs like that exist "somewhere else" (where?) Or just naturally occur or are given to me somehow due to my "white privilege" in a "male dominated" society.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Do you think this earth-shatteirng event will impact greatly upon your daily welfare?

Is segregating kids at learning level something best left to the fundamentalists in the Middle East and Northern Ireland?

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It's so important to the girls to be segregated and led by women in a woman friendly environment (see their statement).

so why would this not apply to boys? Also their statement makes it sound like the only way to have a "safe" environment for girls is if boys aren't there. Is how we want our girls to be taught about males from an early age? As a girl I can join any boy stuff I want, but he can't join any of mine cause it will bother my "safe space"? Total nonsense

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Boys are somehow perfectly fine to be led and taught by grown men who are attracted to the same sex. they then also have to share their "safe space" and learning environment from age 10 with both transgenders and girls.

How can this be a positive experience and environment conducive for growth and learning for a young man?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Boys are somehow perfectly fine to be led and taught by grown men who are attracted to the same sex.

I've spent plenty of time with young girls - and I'm heterosexual - yet never touched any of them, nor had any interest in doing so.

I also grew up with a family friend who was gay, and used to take me on trips, and let me watch TV at his house (he had all the channels) and never touched me.

Not all men are horny dogs who want to rape children.

How can this be a positive experience and environment conducive for growth and learning for a young man?

Um, because it is? Got any more ridiculous questions?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

yet I say it is NOT a conducive environment and am entitled to my opinion which is far from "ridiculous".

there needs to be a place where young boys can be taught how to be a man by other non gay men.

There also needs to be places where men can socialize in a man only environment.

But social justice won't allow this, and at the same time create "man free safe zones" and allow girls to join groups created for boys. This isn't right to me.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

there needs to be a place where young boys can be taught how to be a man by other non gay men.

What on earth do you mean?

How do you teach someone to be a man? Or a woman?

What does the man's sexuality have to do with anything?

You don't teach someone their gender. They just are who they are. And if they aren't; they can become what they are.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Blacklabel: There also needs to be places where men can socialize in a man only environment. But social justice won't allow this

?

The Boy Scouts decided on their own to allow in girls. As per the article: "The unanimous decision by the 100-year-old group's board of directors". Go talk to them if it makes you angry.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Oh ok so there is no such thing as teaching a young boy to act like a "man" now. I give up. People who know what I am taking about know. Those of you who don't probably think the world is either genderless or think there are 61 genders so you will never get it.

Yeah Boy Scouts and their 100 year history are done. Wonder if there are any statues we can tear down.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

You do teach someone to BE their gender. You teach a boy how to shave and how to tie a necktie and how to be a gentleman. you teach a girl how to wear makeup, do their hair and how to wear dresses and bras and heels and such.

although most justice warriors and liberals will say it's fine if the woman doesn't wear a dress and heels while a man does. Muh Gender oppression or something

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Oh ok so there is no such thing as teaching a young boy to act like a "man" now. I give up. People who know what I am taking about know.

People, you say, eh. I know people, too. Are yours more manly man than mine?

You do teach someone to BE their gender. You teach a boy how to shave and how to tie a necktie and how to be a gentleman. you teach a girl how to wear makeup, do their hair and how to wear dresses and bras and heels and such.

And the gender roles are assigned! Assume your positions and do not deviate from them! You! Yes, you there, with the sandals and long hair - who do you think you're trying to fool? Don't you know I died in the war for the likes of you to be free? Free to conform, that is. Cut that hair! Take off that make up! Put on that make up! etc etc, ad nauseum...

It amazes me that stepping outside one's conditioning can terrify some people so much.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Wonder if there are any statues we can tear down.

One day all your statues will be dust. As will we.

Why can't you just let people live their lives without fear of being labelled different?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I can and do. Just wonder why boys and men can't simply have anything for themselves and their development as men.

Boys already with girls at school all day and also dealing with all the social justice forced issues. 6 year olds getting accused of sexual harassment or using the wrong "gender pronoun" for someone.

Having to accept their male classmate transitioning as a transgender and being taught about LGBT rights. I would just like place where boys can be boys but I guess Boy Scouts isn't that anymore.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

You do teach someone to BE their gender.

You do? It seems to me just a few months ago people here were saying you are born a man or women, based upon what you are born with. Now you are saying you learn gender. I'm confused. Which is it?

Also, as a former boys scout myself, I never learned how to tie a tie in boy scouts. I taught myself how to do these things in my late teens. Would not knowing how to do these things make me less of a man or more of woman?

How about make up, is a woman who doesn't wear make up any less of a woman?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

BlacklabelToday  02:58 pm JST

So inclusion and unity and equal rights and all these buzz words don't apply when it's boys being discriminated against?

Nope. Try reading the posts instead of the voices in your head.

Not only can boys not have access to what the Girl Scouts have to offer they are also prevented from having the benefit of an all boy, man-led, boy friendly atmosphere that is so critical for girls but means nothing to boys.

I see no reason to think it would mean anything to boys. The world is already dominated by men. Men don't need to learn any particular skills for surviving the world of men - it already comes for free with just learning to survive. In fact, if the Harvey Weinstein case shows us anything, it's that boys desperately need to learn how to function in a world that has girls in it more than anything else.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I can and do. Just wonder why boys and men can't simply have anything for themselves and their development as men.

Boys tend to develop into men. Nothing's halting that unless they are uncomfortable with conditioning.

Boys already with girls at school all day and also dealing with all the social justice forced issues. 6 year olds getting accused of sexual harassment or using the wrong "gender pronoun" for someone.

Best learn that you can't downpress women or LGBT from an early age. Otherwise; this fear of gender continues. Links to the 6 year old getting accused?

Having to accept their male classmate transitioning as a transgender and being taught about LGBT rights. I would just like place where boys can be boys but I guess Boy Scouts isn't that anymore.

Nothing wrong with learning about your fellow human beings. If you don't like it, you can always school them in Afghanistan, Uganda or somewhere equally enlightened.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

No, it’s political progressive identity liberal politics, nothing more.

Just like segregation, miscegenation and the suffragette movement right?

And just when did "progressive" become an insult?

You guys are a piece of work

Indeed. You say this on a daily basis. All it means is that you fear a better, more tolerant and inclusive world.

It's almost amusing to see men quaking at the thought of fairness and equality.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Blacklabel, you're totally right. No one ever taught me to do my hair or make-up and now I'm simply nothing. My woman-license just got revoked, so I guess I'm doomed to just stay locked up in my home, lest I go outside and confuse any of the manly-men or womanly-women. Alas, had I only known my place.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

BlacklabelToday  06:30 pm JST

I would just like place where boys can be boys but I guess Boy Scouts isn't that anymore.

This is the part that is particularly twisted for me, the notion that there isn't anywhere boys are able to be boys just because people who aren't boys could possibly be in that space. Like that the definition of masculinity is somehow tainted by exposure to anything that isn't masculine.

I mean, forget the sex/gender confusion inherent in such a statement, you're literally setting up boys to be the most delicate, wilting daisies of them all.

Then again I heard the exact same complaints when video games started having girl characters in them. Or at least, girl characters who aren't sex objects. I guess giving up the smallest shred of privilege can be terrifying to people who don't recognize it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

When liberals decided we don’t need to have respect for either sex, we are just one A-sexual group.

When did this happen? People are asking for respect and equality for all sexualities and genders on the spectrum.

Yup, no wonder more people are home schooling their kids, can’t blame them.

No but you'll try and mold them into the conditioned model.

Hey, I stay away from California and NY, you can keep that part of the world.

That's nice but NYC and California are not the world. You should be less parochial in your outlook.

Bruh, I’m not quaking, I’m laughing my butt off.

I'm not your bruh, your dude or whatever else you seem to think I am. You do seem quite panicked at the idea of equality and challenge to your patriarchal heterocentric viewpoint.

Why is this, do you think?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Having to accept their male classmate transitioning as a transgender and being taught about LGBT rights.

Sound pretty horrific.

My guess is, from their point of view, they live in a society where some want to make them the outcast. People are fighting against their right to marry, they can be denied basic good and services like a cake, they are being banned from the military, and they are told the real injustice is any situation where they are treated just like everyone else.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

*When did this happen? People are asking for respect and equality for all sexualities and genders on the spectrum.*

We already have that.

No but you'll try and mold them into the conditioned model

No, Most people just don’t want their kids to be spoon fed liberal progressive crap, i wouldn’t have a problem if the public schools were fair in their teachings and give kids two sides of a social and political viewpoint, but that’s not happening here.

http://www.businessinsider.com/homeschooing-more-popular-than-ever-2017-1

That's nice but NYC and California are not the world. You should be less parochial in your outlook.

I’m sorry, CA and NY consider themselves to be the center of the US universe. Not my outlook, theirs.

I'm not your bruh, your dude or whatever else you seem to think I am. You do seem quite panicked at the idea of equality and challenge to your patriarchal heterocentric viewpoint.

Why is this, do you think?

I’m not. I don’t need to be. I just believe in certain boundaries for boys and girls at this sensitive stage in their lives and you seem to have a problem or anger with my position, now why is that? You have your opinion and I have mine, simple as that.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@takeda you learn to be the gender you ARE. You know, how you are born and what you are born with and what your certificate of birth says you are. That doesn't and can't change.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

We already have that.

Clearly "we" don't. Otherwise this thread (and many others like it) wouldn't exist.

No, Most people just don’t want their kids to be spoon fed liberal progressive crap,

Again; you seem to be speaking for everyone. I'd counter that and say "liberal progressive crap" is your take on equality and acceptance. You do seem very reluctant to accept differences from so-called social "norms".

I’m sorry, CA and NY consider themselves to be the center of the US universe. Not my outlook, theirs.

These are the places you hope to be nuked, yes? Where is the centre of your universe, exactly?

I just believe in certain boundaries for boys and girls at this sensitive stage in their lives

Your boundaries are restrictions that you place on kids to conform to your way of thinking. Why not ease off the conditioning and let them make their own decisions?

and you seem to have a problem or anger with my position

Nah, just a bit tired of the "bruh" and "dude" stuff. It's very Californian. Which I thought you hated...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Readers, enough of this nonsense.

@katsu wellt that's what Girl Scouts are saying, they can't be girls without a girl only, girl led environment that is "safe" for girls without boys around.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

BlacklabelOct. 12  10:20 pm JST

@katsu wellt that's what Girl Scouts are saying, they can't be girls without a girl only, girl led environment that is "safe" for girls without boys around.

Again, read the things that are actually written- don't just listen to the voices in your head. Literally no one has said that girls can't be girls except in a girls-only environment.

The argument, at least as I understand it as an outsider researching Girl Scouts, is that girls can't learn the skills they need to get equal ground in a man's world with boys around because the same socio-cultural forces that lead men to dominate the adult world let boys dominate in the children's world. They need a space away from boys to make sure girls can actually learn how to succeed when boys are around.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

We boys like girls, but we also want to have some time spent just "with the boys" - and that means no girls. Girls don't have to do everything boys do. We are different. Let us do our thing.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

We boys like girls, but we also want to have some time spent just "with the boys" - and that means no girls. Girls don't have to do everything boys do. We are different. Let us do our thing.

Who is stopping you from doing your thing, Dan?

How will this

*Beginning next year, families will be able to enroll their sons and daughters in Cub Scout programs. Existing packs, or community-level units, can decide to establish new girl packs or co-ed packs. They can also choose to remain exclusive to boys.*

affect you?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

My daughter is a Boy Scout in Japan. She loves it, and done a lot of cool things in places that I have never knew. It is good to see that Japan is ahead of America on a social issue for once.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Japan, and I'm sure other countries have done this for years. It's a great organization (in Japan) that promotes great leadership and social skills. My kids love it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There's a poster on here going on and on about "social conditioning" as if that's the sole determinant of the sexes, as if hormones and physiology don't have a role. It's ironic, too, since his/her arguments seem to come from conditioning: each and every word seems to come from a textbook of a gender studies/queer studies/ women studies program in the liberal arts department. This person reminds me of the character with whom Matt Damon got into an argument in the bar in that movie, where the guy could recite the texts word for word, but couldn't actually fathom his own argument.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

There's a poster on here going on and on about "social conditioning" as if that's the sole determinant of the sexes, as if hormones and physiology don't have a role. It's ironic, too, since his/her arguments seem to come from conditioning: each and every word seems to come from a textbook of a gender studies/queer studies/ women studies program in the liberal arts department. This person reminds me of the character with whom Matt Damon got into an argument in the bar in that movie, where the guy could recite the texts word for word, but couldn't actually fathom his own argument.

It's not the sole determining factor but it plays a big part.

Maybe the poster isn't as well versed in gender studies/queer studies as yourself. Or maybe they see a recurring pattern as to how these threads usually play out. The predictable mixture of fear and horror from certain males who appear threatened because there's an option in enrolling in the scouts.

How do you like them apples?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I'd like to take a step back from all of the inclusive, gender-bending, adult world views regarding this decision, and bring up something that I think is a valid point.

Did any of the male members of this particular forum lust after members of the opposite sex when you were adolescents? Was it due to "gender conditioning" as a result of living with, or near, male family members, or was it something as simple as a biological impulse?

And lets be honest... Female members of the forum probably had the same sorts of things going on in their heads as well.

I spent many years in the BSA when I was much younger, and I can still recall how we reacted when faced with young women of our own age group. We had a week long canoe trip one summer that coincided with a canoe trip that a girl scout troop had decided to enjoy. For 2-3 days of this trip it was decided that the two groups would travel together.

The two groups set up camp separately each afternoon. Each evening, as things wound down from preparing meals and doing the cleanup, the boys and girls sought each other out. This wasn't a cultural exchange or any lofty exchange of ideals, it was teenage hormones at it's most base level. I don't believe that anything too terrible happened at that time. The boys mostly being in it for a quick kiss or two, and maybe the chance to feel up the girl they liked(read... OMG boobs!).

With that being said... I agree with the Girl Scouts decision regarding allowing males into their membership, and am mildly appalled at the decision of the BSA to allow females into the organization at the membership level. I believe the BSA didn't approach this idea as cautiously as they should have.

Now the children will no longer have to go looking for trouble, it will be in the tent next door. At least until someone complains about not having the right to share a tent with someone of the opposite gender. facepalm

This is one of those ideas that looks good on paper but the reality of which can be so much more awful. To take it a step further, one could argue that the spate of lawsuits revolving around the sexual abuse that is sure to occur, will most certainly bring about some sort of change in the way the genders regard each other. Even if it were to lead to the BSA to take the forefront for womens rights in some way, shape, or form, would it have been worth it to the daughters and sons sacrificed to make it happen?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

ramses68Today  03:47 am JST

Now the children will no longer have to go looking for trouble, it will be in the tent next door.

So in other words, girls should be denied the rights to the same educational opportunities as boys because the boys might want to kiss them.

Don't feel too bad, it's a common sexist attitude that has unduly influenced American thought for years. It frankly amazing it took this long for it to come up in the thread.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Fine by me as long as the Girl Scouts keep selling those cookies.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So in other words, girls should be denied the rights to the same educational opportunities as boys because the boys might want to kiss them.

What education can girls get among boys that they can't get in an all girls club?

And yes, we all know males are evil creatures for trying to kiss girls.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In the nurture-vs-nature argument, most people would agree that homosexuality is a born trait. Gay individuals know this, have their innate preferences, and trying to raise them against their nature would cause mental health problems.

So, why cannot these same people agree that boys and girls are innately different and forced all-inclusivity is counter productive.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

"So in other words, girls should be denied the rights to the same educational opportunities as boys because the boys might want to kiss them.

Don't feel too bad, it's a common sexist attitude that has unduly influenced American thought for years. It frankly amazing it took this long for it to come up in the thread."

Well... Thanks for labeling me sexist, I suppose. Is this because I'm against the idea of the BSA taking girls into regular membership? Or that I'm denying the right to boys to kiss girls? I'm not clear about where you stand on this... Are you supporting the BSA's decision to embrace female members, while bashing the Girl Scouts of America for not being gender inclusive?

You're insinuating that I'm attempting to deny girls rights to educational opportunities because boys may want to kiss them? You've horribly oversimplified what I was alluding to, but thank you for trying.

Since I'm familiar with BOTH the BSA and Girl Scouts organizations... What specific "educational opportunities" are there that young women would be missing if they weren't allowed to be in the BSA? I do mean specifically what will girls miss out on? And to make things perfectly clear... Are you even aware that the BSA already runs the Explorer program that is co-ed as well as vocationally oriented?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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