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Opposition to family separation grows; Trump defends actions

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By Sarah N Lynch and Susan Cornwell

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Maybe this kind of thing is what Republicans like. He does have 87% approval rating with Republican voters, y'know.

That, BTW, is higher than St. Ronnie ever got.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

He's lost, period. The NYT is reporting:

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said that “all of the members of the Republican conference support a plan that keeps families together,” endorsing an approach that would provide legal authority to detain parents and children together while their legal status in the country is assessed by the courts.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Maybe this kind of thing is what Republicans like. He does have 87% approval rating with Republican voters, y'know.

The party went extreme right during the Bush years. Trump is an extreme right president. Makes sense that extremists would love an extremist.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said that “all of the members of the Republican conference support a plan that keeps families together,” endorsing an approach that would provide legal authority to detain parents and children together while their legal status in the country is assessed by the courts.

Sounds like the party is freaking out about being associated with ripping apart children from their parents, and keeping them in cages. And rightfully so - it's absolutely disgusting behavior, generally what you would see dictators doing, not leaders of free nations.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

 And rightfully so - it's absolutely disgusting behavior,

And illegal. The Constitution applies to everyone in the US, regardless of nationality, regardless of legality of entry.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Sounds like the party is freaking out about being associated with ripping apart children from their parents, and keeping them in cages. And rightfully so - it's absolutely disgusting behavior, generally what you would see dictators doing, not leaders of free nations.

Well, in Americans' defense, 2/3 of them agree with you. The Washington Post had a Quinnipiac poll out yesteday:

Two-thirds of the country, 66 percent, oppose Trump’s policy, according to the poll. That includes 6 in 10 men and 7 in 10 women. As is often the case, though, there’s a wide split by party. A majority of Republicans approve of the policy, while 6 in 10 independents and 9 in 10 Democrats oppose it.

He's stoking his base ahead of elections. And of course populist nativism is the most resonant theme for a party doing little else to improve the lives of their constituents. As my father always says, if you deny people the populism they need they'll take the populism they can get. FDR was a populist, Bernie Sanders is a populist, and their ideas would improve the country. Given that their ideas are no longer deemed "realistic" in American politics, folks are left to choose between monsters like Trump and neoliberal scum. No surprise the demagogues are getting a turn.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

youngsters in cages

The US is now THE pariah state.

GoTrumpers in the US and 'abroad'): you own this.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Trump has been trying to follow the Mein Kampf model for his entire presidency. From the beginning, he has been looking for a group of people he can get away with abusing. He tested the waters with his Muslim Ban, his attacks on transgender soldiers, and with immigrants from south of the border. He was always searching to see who he could be allowed to demonize, to turn into an external enemy to distract the public from his authoritarian power seize.

So watch the people who don't break with Trump on this until it becomes a political necessity. They're the people who want America to be a Nazi state. They're the people who want Democracy subverted.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

GoTrumpers in the US and 'abroad'): you own this.

The illegal parents and the smuggling cartels own this. Not even American citizens that commit crimes are allowed to take their children with them to jail. I don't know why people want the children in jail so badly.

-17 ( +5 / -22 )

Maybe this kind of thing is what Republicans like. He does have 87% approval rating with Republican voters, y'know.

Of course, it makes sense. We have thousands of Americans that are separated and yet, liberals want to indoctrinate that illegals being separated is somehow different? People are people, we are all the same, the difference is, these are illegal immigrants, they don’t have a constitutional right to demand anything, they are not citizens, we do have an obligation to care and feed them while they are being processed, but what about the thousands of Americans that are separated from their families? As US citizens they should have top priority over anyone that’s illegal. If liberals and Democrats really cared about these people they would have sealed the border a long, long time ago, but now all of a sudden before an election they care about DACA, they care about these kids? Give me a break. You have no border, you have no country. Again, no one wants to see children separated from their families, but the law is the law and if the Dems don’t like it, sit down with Republicans and come up with reasonable solution to resolve this. Both sides will have to give up something to get something otherwise, this won’t get better.

-22 ( +4 / -26 )

Why are so many republicans opposed to this zero policy and the separation of the children from their parents. BBC World News played an audio of the children "cages in steel wire cages" crying and having no understanding of what happened to their family. More than 2,000 children are being held, separated. A cruel and unnecessary punishment.

11 ( +15 / -4 )

"The illegal parents "

There are no illegal parents. Not in the US. Since the end of slavery.

I guess you and your fellow Republicans didn't get the memo. Real patriots you are.

13 ( +18 / -5 )

1) The 'law' in question is a misdemeanor. When people arrested for felonies aren't kept in jail, but families are ripped apart because of a White House decision (and yes, no matter how much Trump and his supporters want to spin it, this is a White House policy decision), then that isn't right, plain and simple.

2) Everyone, citizen or not, that is arrested in the United States is entitled to the same Constitutional rights. The 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendments are not suspended because of what country you are from. That has been a long established fact within American jurisprudence. To deny that is to deny the very fabric that makes America, America... regardless of border.

'City on a hill'? With policies like these, it's further than ever from being a reality.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Why are so many republicans opposed to this zero policy and the separation of the children from their parents.

Most aren't.

BBC World News played an audio of the children "cages in steel wire cages" crying and having no understanding of what happened to their family.

And? They should go to San Quentin, a lot of people crying as well. This is what happens when people are detained. By the way, you don't know when that audio was taken. There is no time or date stamp on it for verification.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Of course, it makes sense. We have thousands of Americans that are separated and yet, liberals want to indoctrinate that illegals being separated is somehow different? People are people, we are all the same, the difference is, these are illegal immigrants, they don’t have a constitutional right to demand anything, they are not citizens, we do have an obligation to care and feed them while they are being processed, but what about the thousands of Americans that are separated from their families? As US citizens they should have top priority over anyone that’s illegal. If liberals and Democrats really cared about these people they would have sealed the border a long, long time ago, but now all of a sudden before an election they care about DACA, they care about these kids? Give me a break. You have no border, you have no country. Again, no one wants to see children separated from their families, but the law is the law and if the Dems don’t like it, sit down with Republicans and come up with reasonable solution to resolve this. Both sides will have to give up something to get something otherwise, this won’t get better.

You’ll notice posters like this always look at issues in only two dimensions – it’s all black and white. They’ve been bamboozled and manipulated by the conservative media (Faux News – we deceive, you believe) that every issue can be viewed through the lens of a liberal or conservative label. It makes for easy living – us against them, evil versus righteousness, etc., etc.  A simple way for simple minds to interact with the world.

And so we get to issues like this that have nothing to do with a liberal or conservative label -  decency, compassion, human dignity – those are the relevant variables here – you are either someone that believes that tearing children apart from their parents is morally repugnant, or you don’t. 

It’s somewhat gratifying to see that at least some members of the Republican Party are starting to put aside parochialism to come down on the side of common human decency.  But I’m not holding my breath. 

In the interim, America will continue to lose influence and standing worldwide, with Putin and Xi celebrating in Moscow and Beijing.  Robert Mueller can't finish soon enough...

14 ( +16 / -2 )

People who intentionally target children are losers.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

bass4funk

Most aren't.

But so many are now being vocal and expressing their opposition to the zero policy and looking at ways to stop it. Your own republican conservators and the numbers will grow.

And? They should go to San Quentin, a lot of people crying as well. This is what happens when people are detained. By the way, you don't know when that audio was taken. There is no time or date stamp on it for verification.

You keep making the comparison of people charged with a crime, found guilty and sentenced to a term of imprisonment. They had due process.

The people denied for crossing the border have not had any due process and even they are protected under the constitution ensures and that's why even the nasty deadly terrorists are not kept on American soil but in Gitmo.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

If the administration wants "zero tolerance", why not simply deport the families when they enter? Why spend taxpayers' money to detain and prosecute?

Answer: because Trump/Sessions/Miller want to inflict human suffering in order to 1) send a "message" to immigrants and asylum seekers, and 2) to extract concessions from Democrats. They're deliberately traumatizing children for political gain.

Sick.

Plus they have it in for anybody who's not white.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

It's kind of like a modern day sequel to "Schindler's List".

Uniformed officers ripping small children away from their mothers. This is America?

Being tough at the borders is one thing, but this is cruel and heartless.

It's definitely not who we are, or at least not who we should be.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Don't try to enter a country illegally. Is that really so hard?

-16 ( +5 / -21 )

Major Republicans opposed to the zero policy.

FLOTUS Melania Trump.

Former first lady Laura Bush.

Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse.

Maine Sen. Susan Collins.

Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake.

Oklahoma Sen. James Lankford.

Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch.

South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham.

Texas Rep. Will Hurd.

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski.

Texas Sen. Ted Cruz.

Ohio Rep. Steve Stivers.

Kansas Sen. Pat Roberts.

Miami Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart.

Arizona Sen. John McCain.

Ohio Gov. John Kasich.

Mitt Romney.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

The horror of what's happening is bad enough, but the unquestioning support from Trump disciples is also terrifying.

If Trump brought back segregation, unlikely of course, you'd have people cheering him on claiming that it makes perfect business sense.

7 ( +11 / -4 )

This whole immigration thing has been a farce for years. It's easy. Committed a felony? No, good. Have a job? Yes. Here's your green card, your spouse and children are welcome. Citizenship classes are here.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

but...but...but he was destined to be the next Nobel prize recipient. Everyone said so, even himself.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

But so many are now being vocal and expressing their opposition to the zero policy and looking at ways to stop it. Your own republican conservators and the numbers will grow.

In support about 62% and that number will grow now that they see a President who will finally uphold laws that have been in place since 2005.

You keep making the comparison of people charged with a crime, found guilty and sentenced to a term of imprisonment. They had due process. 

Sorry, separation is separation. Liberals want to cherry pick the definition of the word. Unbelievable. Lol

The people denied for crossing the border have not had any due process and even they are protected under the constitution ensures and that's why even the nasty deadly terrorists are not kept on American soil but in Gitmo. 

No, you are right, they broke the law, they have the right to be held humanly, cared and served food, but they don’t have the right to dictate anything. They have no rights to demand a trial or hearing or anything. They will be processed, put into the system and given a public defender and overturned to ICE to be sent back. Seems normal to me.

In truth you don't care one iota about a single American who is in prison unless it's Michael Cohen who's heading there and Manafort too, but as you also keep saying Trump will give them a pardon.

I have no idea how Cohen got into this conversation, but as in typical liberal confusion, let’s focus for a moment, I don’t like seeing kids separated from their families as well, but the law is the law. Liberals approach laws based on emotion and not on rationality. You can never win any argument if you do that.

Never read a comment from you about the highest prison population in the world, 2.3 Americans.

Never heard of liberals caring for illegal kids and being separated back in 2014 either

-19 ( +3 / -22 )

Trump wanted Congress to give him the legal authority to detain and deport families together.

Nobody wants to separate families. We just disagree what needs to happen after an adult with children is caught inside the USA illegally. President Trump is trying to force Congress to address the issue quickly and he found a pressure point.

Someone finally found a way to get Congress to do anything. Amazing. Wish is wasn't this, but ... maybe Congress will do something?

Putting children inside chain linked fences isn't new. It is called "school" and "home" when I was growing up. The housing area was surrounded by barbed wire and guards with firearms too. We were "free range" kids, within the fences.

BTW, I think Congress became highly political when Clinton was President, not W.Bush, but perhaps it was because I worked in a govt job then and remember the govt shutdown.

I don't believe that Trump's approval rating is that high for Republicans. CNN (7 June): 44% among registered voters, 26% of Republicans "Strongly Approve" of Trump's direction. I find that scary. 48% of all voters claim they want a congress-critter to help "check Trump" - I find that worse than I'd hoped. Wish is was 80+%.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Parents crossing the USA border illegally with children show they can't be trusted to raise their children. Teaching kids to break laws isn't normal parenting, is it?

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

If the administration wants "zero tolerance", why not simply deport the families when they enter? Why spend taxpayers' money to detain and prosecute?

I love it now how the left are concerned about the financial aspect of all of this. ROFL

Answer: because Trump/Sessions/Miller want to inflict human suffering in order to 1) send a "message" to immigrants and asylum seekers, and 2) to extract concessions from Democrats. They're deliberately traumatizing children for political gain.

And the left are no better, in fact, they are worse. Chuck Schumer just announced they want to put as much pressure on the president and they want the president to sign on that he will end this and once again, the Democrats don’t want to make any concessions, they say he can end this with a stroke of a spin, Trump wants this to go to Congress so that Congress can make a binding solution. So basically, the Democrats want to use the immigration issue for political purposes, they don’t care one iota for these kids, because they won’t even try to sit down with the president, that should send a lot of bells and whistle alarms right there

Sick.

Plus they have it in for anybody who's not white.

Wait a minute, so all the people of color that enter the US especially from Third World countries that are mostly of color they’re not being discriminated against, but the people coming from Third World countries that are illegal are being discriminated against because of their color? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Liberal logic at its ultimate best.

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

Sorry, separation is separation. Liberals want to cherry pick the definition of the word. Unbelievable. Lol

Deflect, obfuscate, applaud and giggle at the situation as much as you wish.

This is barbarism.

These children aren't the enemies of the US. It's those who enforce and support this abuse who are.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

let’s focus for a moment, I don’t like seeing kids separated from their families as well, but

But you support Trump intentionally and knowingly changing the process for the specific purpose of separating kids from their families as his goal. He wants them to suffer so he can extract concessions.

You support that.

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Sorry, separation is separation. Liberals want to cherry pick the definition of the word. Unbelievable. Lol

First I have informed you that I'm not a liberal but you still try to stick that label on me. One group, prisoners had due process and many can can have visits from their kids. The other group, illegal immigrants have had no due process and first only detained and separated from their kids.

There is no need to separate family who should be placed in detention centers not prisons and certainly even keeping very young children in steel cages is a very cruel punishment and the people doing it should be prosecuted for it.

They have no rights to demand a trial or hearing or anything. 

Wrong and the constitution disagrees with your opinion.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

The young children haven't broken any laws and are not criminals they are below the age of criminal responsibility.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Trump could end this zero policy and cruel and unnecessary punishment by making a single phone call.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

How about just considering the (in-)humane apects.

If it were your children ... how would you think?

This is the reincarnation of the "3rd Reich" at its best.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Guilty until proven innocent.

In regards to immigration court, yes, unfortunately.

John Oliver did a good piece on this a few months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fB0GBwJ2QA

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Perhaps it is time for the world to start considering sanctions against the United States for human rights violations.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

First I have informed you that I'm not a liberal but you still try to stick that label on me.

But you’re not a conservative either, so that kind of narrows it down a little bit.

One group, prisoners had due process and many can can have visits from their kids. The other group, illegal immigrants have had no due process and first only detained and separated from their kids. 

Yes, they broke the law and as such they should be held accountable, no exceptions.

There is no need to separate family who should be placed in detention centers not prisons and certainly even keeping very young children in steel cages is a very cruel punishment and the people doing it should be prosecuted for it.

But the lot is clear, and now it is being a florist and if the Liberals not like it they can sit with Republicans take it up with Congress and fix out a proper immigration deal, other than that, the law is the law and if you break the law they are subject to all its fines in persecutions

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

if trump continues this "policy" until the midterm elections, the republicans are doomed. the resistance was losing steam but it seems that trump has not only stoked the fire, he's modified the engine so that it can run with greater efficiency.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I understand your hate to Trump blinds everyone here, but try to close your TV and think rationally for a second.

We’re telling you not to continue with a plan to intentionally hurt kids, and we’re not thinking rationally?

The suffering is the payday for Trump, That’s how he thinks he will max out his gains in the immigration negotiations. It’s suffering by intent and design. On kids.

A three year old is being told his Mom is gone and they don’t know when she is coming back. A little 3-year old kid. He didn’t do anything wrong, and it doesn’t have to be this way.

Trump designed it to be this way. He sat down and came up with a plan where this would be a reality. He turned collateral damage into an asset. With kids.

Trump is a complete loser. Stand up for yourself and tell him that he should not intentionally hurt these kids. Tell him he is wrong. Stand up for what you believe in.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If you have to tell a president putting kids in cages and ripping families apart is bad it means we're in deep deep trouble..

So, it's the Democrats's fault and only they can change it, but he's going to meet with the Republicans to ensure that they propose only laws that are repugnant to the Democrats, so he can then accuse the Democrats of obstruction again.  Because it's his way or the highway. Let's end this game: VOTE the Republicans out this November!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It’s all politics from Dems. Schumer said:

"There are so many obstacles to legislation and when the president can do it with his own pen, it makes no sense," Schumer told reporters. "Legislation is not the way to go here when it's so easy for the president to sign it."

doesnt want anything to do with fixing it so he can (a) say “but Trump signed it not us” and (b) he can complain about the illegality of Trump doing it all by himself later when it suits him.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

There is no way to be “innocent” when you are caught on the US side of the border with no authorization.

Guilty until proven innocent.

This is what America has become?

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

bass4funkToday 08:38 am JST

You can never win any argument if you do that.

Do you think you're winning any arguments here?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

So Schumer wanted to legislate every single thing Trump has done and every thing he has ever mentioned to do. Yet this doesn’t require any legislation, just sign it? That’s doeabt concern anyone as to why?

These guys are so dirty they would try to impeach him for an illegal executive order after he signs it. That’s not happening. Do your job and pass legislation.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

One viral photo of the tearful face of a 2 year-old child has demonstrated the old adage: a picture is worth a thousand words. Trump has, once again, been hoist by his own petard. Loser! To those authoritarian types who with a smorgasbord of specious whatabouteries downplay the trauma suffered by children and parents while defending Trump's brazen and flagrant attempt at political blackmail to build TrumpWall USA, I would say "you are right", but only by comparing the situation of children at the border to the tragic fate of children separated from parents by Trumpdrones and bombs.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Alex Einz

The armed US Border Patrol Officiers are so afraid of the these zero children they put them into steel cages just like herded animals.

The children are 20 to a cage scattered about are bottles of water and foil sheets used for blankets. There are no toilets inside the cages.

What sort of country treats children in this very abusive way, well America!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-18/us-border-patrol-facility-in-texas-children-in-cages/9880192

This is one of the most shameful acts by America in recent times.

Blacklabel

There is no way to be “innocent” when you are caught on the US side of the border with no authorization.

All children under the age of 7 are below the age of criminality and therefore not guilty of anything.

bass4funk

But you’re not a conservative either, so that kind of narrows it down a little bit.

I know how difficult for your tunnel vision, but because I'm not a conservative does not make me a liberal any more than not being a liberal must make me a conservative. There are many more positions than the limited ones too often expressed by you. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. I'm not a republican or democrat. I'm a free thinking individual more than capable of making up my own mind on issues without those being decided by the various political interests which only seek to further their own agendas and profits.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

very irresponsible parents taking their children to a foreign country to enter illegally

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Shame on Trump! Shame on America! Make the phone call Mr president and end this policy of child abuse,

13 ( +14 / -1 )

It’s all politics from Dems.

Democrats literally hold none of the power - no majority anywhere, and yet the right is blaming it on them.

Bit of a reality disconnect there.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Yes, it’s the far left media warping our minds into thinking it’s not OK to target children.

Without all the propaganda, we’d all be supporting that. Targeting children.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Nobody wants to harm children except the parents who bring their children across the border without the correct documentation for legal entry.

Allowing immediate deportation would solve this issue. The parents and children would be returned, together, and be able to get their documentation in order for future legal entry. I could believe that 1% of the people crossing the border do it accidentally. I've accidentally driven up to entrances where I was turned away by armed guards a few times. They didn't arrest me because I wasn't inside the fence.

If the libs want to setup family friendly housing and meet all the requirements of running it with their own cash, great! As a citizen, I feel it is my responsibility to find cost effective solutions to problems. I'm not willing to write a blank check for a wall or for family-friendly detention for illegal, economic, immigrants.

I respect your opinion, even if it is wrong.

As for letting the people decide ... that's why the USA is a Republic. Decisions usually need to be made faster than a full election can support, so we have representatives who are supposed to understand the situation and desires of the people who they represent. If you want a direct democracy, you'll need to relocate somewhere else or amend the US Constitution. I'm certain you know this already.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Guilty until proven innocent.

This is what America has become?

Oh, but will you make that same argument for the president, then it is OK to judge the man guilty until proven innocent?

It's hardly a leap to see the correlation between this and the unyielding support for the appalling treatment of immigrants. The fact that the most traumatised will be children is of no consequence. 

Funny, you don’t hear that from the majority of legal immigrants that aren’t white.

Of course, not all Americans here are supremacists.

99% of them are not.

It's a vocal group who often attempt to drown out the voices of reason. But it's still a rude awakening when you first encounter it. 

Japan's strict regulations on immigrants keep the supremacists feeling good about themselves. And safe. They fear the hispanics, latinos, people of color. They demonise them and keep coming up with reasons why to discriminate. Trump and his inhuman policies are a godsend to them.

No, but upholding the law is, if anyone is the poster child of racism, it’s the Democrat policies that have undermined and destroyed the Black and Latino communities throughout the US.

Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal - and outside of the US narrow political spectrum - whoever you are; this heinous situation should be condemned. Without preconditions or reservations.

I agree, so the Democrats should meet with congress to come up with a proper immigration bill, but they don’t want to do that because they politically have way too much to lose.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

The media are shooting themselves in the foot with this story. Bringing up illegal immigration only months before the national election is not going to help democrats win any seats. Working-class Americans were the people who put Trump into office, and his tough stance on illegal immigration was one of the main reasons Trump won.

Most of America does not lie within the limits of the large coastal cities. Working class Americans have had to compete against more than 11 million illegal aliens for wages, jobs, classroom seats, hospital beds, and even jail cells. But the big-city media outlets think about this large swathe of America as often as they think about Bedouin nomads, which is not at all.

This entire circus is not harming Trump in the least, it is helping him. And he knows it, he can't even hide the smirk on his face when he answers questions about the issue. The media have never gotten it right about Trump, or those who support him, and they still don't. The media is killing any chance of a "blue wave" this November, and is unwittingly guaranteeing a second Trump term.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

I agree, so the Democrats should meet with congress to come up with a proper immigration bill

The Republicans hold all the power in every house. They can do it without any agreement whatsoever from the Democrats.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I agree, so the Democrats should meet with congress to come up with a proper immigration bill, but they don’t want to do that because they politically have way too much to lose.

Congress and president Reagan passed the 1986 Immigration Reform Act. This act specifically stated that "immigration laws shall be vigorously enforced." Since 1986, more than 11 million people have immigrated illegally to America. It's safe to say that immigration laws were not enforced at all.

If congress passes a new law, what should it say? "Immigration laws shall be vigorously enforced for real this time, and we really meant it."? Why would we expect any new laws to be enforced when previously enacted laws were not?

America has enough laws, it just needs to enforce them, as it is legally required to do.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups have multiplied under Trump;

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The media are shooting themselves in the foot with this story. Bringing up illegal immigration only months before the national election is not going to help democrats win any seats. Working-class Americans were the people who put Trump into office, and his tough stance on illegal immigration was one of the main reasons Trump won.

Most of America does not lie within the limits of the large coastal cities. Working class Americans have had to compete against more than 11 million illegal aliens for wages, jobs, classroom seats, hospital beds, and even jail cells. But the big-city media outlets think about this large swathe of America as often as they think about Bedouin nomads, which is not at all.

This entire circus is not harming Trump in the least, it is helping him. And he knows it, he can't even hide the smirk on his face when he answers questions about the issue. The media have never gotten it right about Trump, or those who support him, and they still don't. The media is killing any chance of a "blue wave" this November, and is unwittingly guaranteeing a second Trump term.

Maybe. Maybe not. But if you can't get worked up about state-sanctioned child abuse, what can you get worked up over?

Anyways. It seems that some context is deemed acceptable and some isn't. Adios for today & keep the pressure up against those who revel in and justify this barbaric return to the hatred of the '30s and internment of the '40s.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

John Oliver did a good piece on this a few months ago:

Thanks for that link. Clearly there are flaws, but how is the USA responsible to protect someone from criminals in some other country against an individual who doesn't meet the legally required criteria?

Asylum can be granted for suffering persecution or fear that they will suffer persecution due to:

Race

Religion

Nationality

Membership in a particular social group (1 person isn't a group)

Political opinion

Having an evil boyfriend isn't on that list.

Being forced to be a money launderer isn't either.

Wanting a better life for yourself or your kids isn't either.

Sometimes where a person was born sucks. Life isn't fair. Nobody ever said it was. We already have 12-25M people who jumped the line who need to be addressed.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

What about the “byuutifull Baybees ....the byuutifull Baylee’s”

he had so much “concern “ when wasted millions of dollars to launch missles into empty Syrian warehouses!

he has the ability to stop this with the stroke of a pen but we all know he won’t, he’ll just keep folding his arms and pointing fingers at his predecessors.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I really wish the democrats in the US would get their wish - to have wide open boarders with Mexico, allow anyone who feels their life would be better in the US to enter at their freewill, to allow anyone who decides to overstay their visa to live and work, etc. Let everyone come! And watch as the economy completely tanks, schools are overflowed, social services are maxed out.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

So much abuse is going on under Trump's watch!

Texas sheriff deputy charged for child abuse after allegedly blackmailing undocumented mother with deportation

A Texas sheriff’s deputy has been accused of sexually assaulting an undocumented immigrant’s child, and blackmailing the mother with potential deportation to keep her quiet about the attacks.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-sheriff-deputy-charged-child-155100759.html

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Bombing foreign children good, selling weapons to kill foreign children good.....changing foreign children bad. The merican world view All ways amuses.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Oppps that's ment to be caging ....... The only thing worse than a tosser is a tosser with bad spelling :( fail.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

 And watch as the economy completely tanks, schools are overflowed, social services are maxed out.

Open borders is the Dems socialist nirvana. They are well on their way to destroying that evil American culture.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

The Republicans hold all the power in every house. They can do it without any agreement whatsoever from the Democrats.

Your knowledge of the American political system is lacking. The Senate requires 60 votes and Republicans currently have only 51 members. Both sides need to compromise to pass anything. On immigration, Dems like the issue too much to attempt to compromise. Republicans are endorsing ideas that other countries are in tune with. Dems don’t care - they want a wedge issue to divide the American people.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The Republicans hold all the power in every house. They can do it without any agreement whatsoever from the Democrats.

Hmmm....and yet, the so called champions of the so called helpless and their incompetent leader Pelosi and fellow gang ring leader Schumer refuse to sit with Republicans to come up with a comprehensive legislative bill to permanently curtail this problem, which makes one believe they’re not at all serious, so then if that’s the case, the GOP will ensure the laws are enforced, so much for a bipartisan effort attempt.

Anyways. It seems that some context is deemed acceptable and some isn't. Adios for today & keep the pressure up against those who revel in and justify this barbaric return to the hatred of the '30s and internment of the '40s

What? That just made absolutely No sense whatsoever. It’s funny, Bush and Obama did the same thing, Obama quietly, but nonetheless the same thing and Trump is viewed as heartless. Too funny.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

I agree, so the Democrats should meet with congress to come up with a proper immigration bill, but they don’t want to do that because they politically have way too much to lose.

No Trump is using children's suffering to blackmail the Dems and Rep senators to vote for his wall, and also squeeze Mexico on NAFTA. This is the scope of Trumps master negotiating skills...............there fixed that for you.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This really doesn't surprise me one bit considering the man-child isn't much of a father himself.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

very irresponsible parents taking their children to a foreign country to enter illegally when you live in poverty and you family has nothing , the risk is worth it. theyll be processed and returned to Mexico, any fines will unlikely be able to be paid as you cant extract blood from a stone. Whats America going to do imprison 11 million Mexicans.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"If you want to change a bad law, enforce it."

President Abraham Lincoln said it, President Donald Trump knows it.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Maybe. Maybe not. But if you can't get worked up about state-sanctioned child abuse, what can you get worked up over?

There is no "maybe" about it. People on this very forum laughed when I said Trump would win the election, and that was before he was even a candidate. I gave the reasons why he would win, mainly his opposition to illegal immigration, and it proved accurate.

Who are the real abusers in this story? What role to the parents have in this "abuse"? The parents knowingly break the laws of another country with their children. We do not allow families to live in cars in America, we do not allow them to sleep under bridges. Those who cannot care for their children see their children taken away from them until they get back on their feet. We cannot allow people into America with their children when they have no legal right to live or work in America. How are they supposed to support their kids when they are forbidden to work, and cannot collect welfare?

The only way these people can work to support their children is to work for cash under the table, which is illegal, and punishable by INA 274 by up to 10 years in prison, or they lie on their citizenship affidavits, and W4 forms. Anyone applying for a job in America must sign an affidavit affirming their citizenship, those who do so falsely are committing a felony. Those working in America need to fill out a W4 form and supply a social security number, those who use a fake or stolen number on their W4 forms are also committing a felony.

When a parent commits a crime in America, he or she is separated from their family. If you write bad checks, shoplift from stores, steal client's, money, or sell drugs, if you are caught and arrested, you go to jail. Your family does not get to go to jail with you.

Entering America illegally is, believe or not, illegal. When you enter America illegally you are committing a felony, and are subject to instant arrest. Remember that the requirement that children be separated from those arrested for entering America illegally was enacted in 2002, by the Bush administration.

Separations were normal, but as there weren't so many of them, the practice never made the news. When Obama enacted DACA, it caused an exodus of families across Latin America to enter America. Record numbers of families with children inundated the borders. Separations greatly increased.

Indeed, if you look at the news 3 or 4 years ago, this same story was in the headlines. In fact, many of the photos you are seeing in the headlines today date back to 2014, when the issue was last raised. As far as I remember, Trump wasn't president in 2014. Obama simply released the families into America, requiring them to show up to an immigration hearing to decide their fate. But the families simply disappeared, no one ever shows up for these hearings (which is another crime), and the problems multiply.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

But you support Trump intentionally and knowingly changing the process for the specific purpose of separating kids from their families as his goal. He wants them to suffer so he can extract concessions.You support that. I love how nobody is man enough to answer that question instead they just keep using the whataboutism scenario to hide their true morality

4 ( +6 / -2 )

@samwh I really wish the democrats in the US would get their wish - to have wide open boarders

@wolfp Open borders is the Dems socialist nirvana

What do you mean by 'open borders'? I know this is a term used by extreme rightists to suggest zero border controls. Is that what you mean?

If so, then you're both grossly exaggerating or have been duped in your attempts to drive more wedges among American groups. I have never heard anyone advocate for open borders, meaning zero border controls.

Why do so many extreme rightists have a tendency to post fake news and alt facts? Are you that unsure of your beliefs and what Hannity, Jones etal are telling you to believe?

If so, you should be.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

f you write bad checks, shoplift from stores, steal client's, money, or sell drugs, if you are caught and arrested, you go to jail. Your family does not get to go to jail with you.

After you are convicted, sure. But even then you are allowed visitation, phone calls, etc.

When you enter America illegally you are committing a felony, and are subject to instant arrest. 

Misdemeanor. Guess we should start locking up everyone for public intoxication, speeding etc?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The quest to find a moral bottom for the Republican party continues. Now they are mostly OK with policies that constitute flagrant child abuse. What next? Trump decides to champion pedophile rights and ending the liberal war on child sex abuse becomes a rallying cry? Its not out of the question the way things are going.

Also I'd like to mention the sad side casualty of this disgusting affair is that it has deflected a lot of the mocking ridicule that would otherwise have accompanied the Space Force announcement.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Purely from a political point of view. If Trump does this all by himself, the people who voted for him will desert him. Not what they voted him into office for, they voted for strong borders and enforcement of the law. Which is why Schumer doesnt want legislation that he can be blamed for, he wants to set up Trump instead.

If he doesnt back down, he keeps all his base. If he does back down, not like any liberals or Dems will suddenly vote for him. Also no Republican voters are going to change their votes to Dems in the midterms just because of this issue. So its pretty much a standstill just like DACA. Dems trying to get all they want while giving up nothing in return. Not gonna happen.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

then from a common sense perspective, if no one is detained at the border anymore here come another half a million people per month of the same. If there is no punishment for getting caught people will just try daily until they succeed. Thats how we have 14 million illegals (at least) now who cost us 10s of billions of dollars a year to provide services for.

We either have a border or we dont, or we have laws or we dont.

-8 ( +3 / -11 )

Dems trying to get all they want ...

With a Republican president, with a Republican majority house, with a Republican majority Senate... how on Earth can 'dems try to get all they want'.

Trump and the Republicans can't seem to take responsibility for the messes they continue to make. It's always the other-guys did it - and are even worse - defense.

Doesn't say much for Republicans and their supporters. Does it.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

We either have a border or we dont, or we have laws or we dont.

Life is about choices. You have chosen to frame this debate with the above either/or. Most of us and most of your fellow countrymen for that matter have chosen to think of it differently:

We either barbarously cage children, lasting trauma be damned, or we don't

5 ( +6 / -1 )

We either have a border or we dont,

We do have a border

or we have laws or we dont.

We do have laws. Forced separation of parents and children isn't the law. Its a stupid policy Ol' bonespurs enacted build that stupid wall that no one wants.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

so the policy he enacted is against the law, you are saying?

Lots of people want the wall. Thats why the candidate who promised one was elected. (but muh popular vote....)

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

10,000 of the 12,000 kids detained came unaccompanied. Where are their parents?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The detained children are victims not criminals.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

A 10 year old girl with Down Syndrome was separated from her mother.

Former Trump campaign manager Cory Lewandowski mocked her on Fox News.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/06/19/corey-lewandowski-mocks-migrant-girl-down-syndrome/716645002/

This is USA 2018.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@blackl We either have a border or we dont, or we have laws or we dont.

Why is it political extremists reduce possibilities to one pole or the other and ignore all options in between? Is that really the overly simplistic way they understand issues?

Or are they just trying to further divide Americans, say there are only 2 camps ala George Bush's 'You're for us or you're for the terrorists'.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

so saying "womp womp" is mocking now?

womp womp

lighthearted phrase that indicates a loss.; A sound of loss heard on a gameshow. (first womp is a higher frequency sound than the second womp)

There are only two options sometimes. In this case, you either detain them or let them go. You either encourage people to illegally violate our borders or you discourage it. You got the job or you didnt. You ate lunch or you didnt.

Liberals are the ones that try to make 5 options out of everything for muh feelings and such. You didnt "win" and only winners get trophies, but heres a trophy anyway. Its nonsense.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

The activists are yelling "No Borders". How insane.

REALLY?

As a taxpayer, I feel ill. As a former state welfare worker, I feel ill.

As a Japanese woman, I AM ILL. Frankly, our state on the west coast already has hoards of illegals and lots of CRIME committed by them.

Democrats are only jealous of Trump's accomplishments getting poor people jobs.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

But its fine for liberals. If they mess up their place and its overrun with illegals and homeless and trash and violence, they just move. Because homeless and illegals and criminals cant follow them.

They move to a conservative controlled place like Arizona or Texas that enforces laws and doesnt have those problems as a result. Then somehow they start trying to vote liberals into office, which starts messing up those places too.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

A fascist regime putting people into concentration camps ... Americans once fought and died for the cause of defeating it. Now, America has one of its own. What do the World War II veterans (and their families) think, I wonder. Russia fought against them, too -- but 70 years later took steps to create a new fascist regime in the nation of their enemy.

The US shall never again be able to call out another country on its "human rights violations."

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Nothing Fascist about the US. A quick look at its history should show how it's always reached out to help minorities:

"The Emergency Immigration Act of 1921 was written to prevent the country being polluted by “abnormally twisted” Jews, who were deemed “filthy, un-American and dangerous in their habits”."

1 ( +3 / -2 )

so disgust to see children being in the cage, 20 some per cage with bottle water and food. reminds me an animal shelter i once visited. why put children in a cage?

i never thought of certain human can be so lower, not realized their wrong doing, but to cover up their ugliness with nonsense unacceptable reasons. it is on the path towards dictatorship.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

TRUMP is the last hope for us Americans who love our country and our culture.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Kind of odd that people in Japan, which strictly controls immigration (20 refugees in 2017) would criticize the US after we have taken in MILLIONS of illegals.

What I find kinda odd is that a Japanese woman would support camps when her own people were interned for years by the same kind of bigots. But we all derive different lessons from history, those of us who've read any that is. It's odder yet given the overwhelmingly wonderbread nature of Trump's base, people who would no doubt be happiest if all the yellows, black and browns were deported en masse.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Lots of people want the wall.

Okay fine. Lots of people want a dumb wall, but more people are opposed to the wall, and that is why Donny can't get it funded. Happy now? :)

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@blacklb "a wall so they cant get in".

If you served in the US military, you'd know that walls can have limited effects - at best - at stopping intruders.

The wall may slow them down.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So, why not try to stop them? At San Diego or other busy areas, they need all the help they can get.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Again, no one wants to see children separated from their families, but the law is the law

Then it seems like a stupid law. If no one wants to see the outcome of that law, then the law is an ass.

In such cases the law can be ignored while a more humane solution is found.

In Britain in the 19th century we used to have "work houses" (popularly known through Oliver Twist). They deliberately separated families so as to discourage entry - it was seen as cruel and a form of punishment.

Hiding behind a glib "the law's the law" is not acceptable.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No Trump is using children's suffering to blackmail the Dems and Rep senators to vote for his wall,

And Dems are using the kids to keep the borders open, keep chain migration alive and to not have to vote on killing the visa lottery program. So then the Dems don’t want to meet in the middle, well, Trump won’t budge on this either.

and also squeeze Mexico on NAFTA.

Which has been disastrous for Americans.

This is the scope of Lefts master negotiating skills, which amount to a can of dried beans.............there fixed that for you.

when you live in poverty and you family has nothing , the risk is worth it.

I’m sorry, I’m a parent and I would never, ever leave or send my child on some journey without me, so unless I’m dying, they stay by my side. Also, I wouldn’t use my child to try to get me into a country and play on it’s sympathy or compassion to help get me in.

theyll be processed and returned to Mexico, any fines will unlikely be able to be paid as you cant extract blood from a stone. Whats America going to do imprison 11 million Mexicans.

No, build a wall, end chain migration and end the visa lottery program. But the Democrats will have to find another way to get votes.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

But you support Trump intentionally and knowingly changing the process for the specific purpose of separating kids from their families as his goal. He wants them to suffer so he can extract concessions.You support that.

Trump has not "changed the process," he has returned it to what it once was. Once again, the policy for separating children from illegal immigrants arrested at the border was enacted by George Bush, not Donald Trump.

Doesn't anyone understand Trump? Can no one figure him out? It's not like he just crawled out from under a rock in November 2016. He's been in the spotlight for 4 decades. For better or worse, he never quits, he never gives up, and no matter how long it takes, he gets his way. If you don't believe it, the fact that he is president should explain it clearly enough.

The biggest mistake people make about Trump is assuming he is dumb. They fail to see the genius in how he uses that, and takes advantage of it. He plays he media like a violin, while they are printing headlines about the Mueller investigation, airing more than 60 interviews of Stormy Daniels, and now this policy of separating children from the families of illegal aliens, the media are not paying attention to anything else. Trump can do just about anything he likes while the media is being diverted by this nonsense.

Trump does not need any concessions. DACA has already expired. Republicans will not do anything to resurrect the program only months before the election, and democrats up for reelection are staying quiet on the issue. Trump is in no hurry to build his wall, he wants to be re-elected, and he can use congress' failure to fund his wall as a campaign issue.

The families in question will be held until their cases are decided by immigration judges. Most will be ordered deported, and will be reunited with their children when they get home.

Tens of thousands of American children have been separated from their families for a variety of reasons. They are kept in group homes and foster homes around America. When is the last time you read a headline about this crisis? Never?

Another thing to consider is the issue of asylum. Those coming to the United States from Latin America are not seeking asylum, they are seeking work. Let's not forget that only a very small percentage of people from Latin America attempt to enter America illegally, more than 99% of the people of these countries manage to support themselves and their families right where they are.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Then it seems like a stupid law.

Ok, that’s your personal opinion, I don’t think it’s stupid, I think it’s stupid we have open borders.

If no one wants to see the outcome of that law, then the law is an ass. 

In such cases the law can be ignored while a more humane solution is found. 

Yes, so please write a letter to congress and tell Chucky and Nancy to please sit down and work with the GOP to come to the middle and come up with a strong immigration bill.

In Britain in the 19th century we used to have "work houses" (popularly known through Oliver Twist). They deliberately separated families so as to discourage entry - it was seen as cruel and a form of punishment. 

What? I’m sorry, that has nothing to do with the subject, please stay with me on this.

Hiding behind a glib "the law's the law" is not acceptable.

I think hiding behind open borders and the Democrats not answering or making excuses to why they won’t fix this is unacceptable as well as inexcusable.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

I worked for the government. I saw all the welfare screens. We had an army of translators.

And every single day Americans were turned down for benefits. While illegals got them.

That made all of the staff angry.

And by the way, even in Oregon which is dominated by Democrats, the citizens voted 2 to 1 --- "NO driver's licenses for illegal aliens".

NO, NUNCA, ZERO.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Trump has been an illegal traitor WH occupant since Day 1. If nothing else, this illegal immoral Hitleresque act SHOWS that he is not fit to run a dog outhouse. I don't care or want to hear his excuses because there are NONE. If you support this action, you are un-American. America claims to be 'Christian' but Jesus Christ doesn't like this outright HYPOCRISY. Trump is a FASCIST and he must be removed from office. Period. No more negotiations. No bargains. KICK HIM OUT! IMPEACH NOW!  

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Please tone down your rhetoric. There is no need to post rants like this. Please make your point in a more civil manner.

Well, the US walked out of the UN human rights council. The UN should impose economic sanctions on the US until this gross barbaric inhuman act is stopped and Trump and his cabinet removed from power and PUNISHED.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Good afternoon Japan. Trump is a COWARD, he is fighting Children.

Please show your dislike for the child abuser. If you are planning to visit the US "DON'T"

Cansell those tickets, fly to somewhere else. Canada, New Zealand, Australia. It is safe there.

You are more than welcome.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Trump is a FASCIST and he must be removed from office. Period. No more negotiations. No bargains. KICK HIM OUT! IMPEACH NOW

The man is not a fascist, but you need to have rules and laws in place, every country has them and the US is no exception, if you don’t have laws, if you have open borders, then you really don’t have a country. No one likes a situation, but it has to start and the Democrats could stop this right now all they have to do is very simple, they need to sit down with Republicans and come up with a comprehensive immigration bill, but they won’t do that, because if they did, then they wouldn’t have anything to work with as a rallying cry for the midterm election, they need to situation to help them rile up the Democratic base. To me, that is the most dirtiest and sneakier political tactics that anyone can do

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

bass4funk: "Trump is a FASCIST and he must be removed from office. Period. No more negotiations. No bargains. KICK HIM OUT! IMPEACH NOW! "

Agreed, but due process should be followed

6 ( +7 / -1 )

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The man is not a fascist, 

and yet according to your posts, Obama was? Flippant definition of what a fascist is.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Holocaust survivors on the subject :

https://forward.com/fast-forward/403566/hidden-children-of-holocaust-open-up-about-unconscionable-family/

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2018/06/19/dallas-holocaust-survivorsees-reflection-faces-children-separated-parents

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Agreed, but due process should be followed.

How? The Dems don’t have the Senate and more than likely won’t get it.

and yet according to your posts, Obama was?

For different reasons, but yes.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Agreed, the DNC is unlikely to gain power, and even if they did, they would fail to wield it. But due process is not based upon political party allegiance. The republican/democrat members of congress should hold the current president in contemp for his constant lying. Its pretty simple. Why don't they? And what happened to the messages I quoted. Odd.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I love seeing the hyperbolic ranting of the anti-Trump people. I really wonder what they are trying to do. If they are trying to make a reasoned argument, perhaps to persuade people that may disagree with them that they should rethink their position, they are doing it in a strange way. Persuasion generally doesn't work when the first thing you do is scream "fascist! racist! child abuse enabler!" at your opponent. It's all rather self congratulatory and masturbatory. Moral preening at its worst.

As for the issue at hand, I don't see what more can be done. There aren't enough shelter spaces to keep families together. Adults who are being put in correctional facilities of course cannot have their children with them. They also can't simply be released on their own recognizance and asked to return later for a hearing- that never works. So what is the alternative today? Kids go to separate facilities where they can be cared for and supervised. If you want more spaces, support Senator Cruz's legislation to double the amount of shelter space.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

There aren't enough shelter spaces to keep families together.

That's the simple reason why all these kids are being separated?

support Senator Cruz's legislation to double the amount of shelter space.

Then Trump will let all families stay together as long as the parents are safe for their children?

OK, it's that simple.

Then how come Trump doesn't say let's build more family detention shelters so the kids can be with their parents? He never pitched that idea. He just likes to be cruel?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

There aren't enough shelter spaces to keep families together. 

Wait! Just put up tents inside an enclosed secure space for families. If that were the real reason they would do that.

Proof that Trump is a cruel old orange fat man and bitter since he wears a dead ferret on his head.

Is there enough space for tents? I've put up tents. Not so hard.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Trump: Congress, make a law that would stop me separating migrant children from their parents, and I would sign it.

Everyone: Couldn't you already do that now?! It's your policy. There's no law that's forcing you to do it.

The backpedaling is a sign that the admin policy was not thought through. They thought about how separating kids from their parents would deter the influx, but they didn't think through how it's going to affect the children.

At worst, they're using the children as bargaining chip - but children shouldn't be used as bargaining chip

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Agreed, the DNC is unlikely to gain power, and even if they did, they would fail to wield it. But due process is not based upon political party allegiance. The republican/democrat members of congress should hold the current president in contemp for his constant lying. Its pretty simple. Why don't they?

Then they would equally have to hold themselves in contempt, because they have even worse approval rating. People trust them even less.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I was going to make some comment about a "Moral Compass". But then remembered that Trump has no morals at all. I think I will go with..."mental Illness", which seems to apply to Trump more aptly. USA, you will eventually reap what you sow ( which is entirely unfair to all the "thinking and unbrainwashed " Americans.)

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Persuasion generally doesn't work when the first thing you do is scream "fascist! racist! child abuse enabler!" at your opponent. It's all rather self congratulatory and masturbatory. Moral preening at its worst.

Well, when the activity at issue is either fascist, racist or constitutes child abuse - all of which there are arguable cases for in this instance - it hardly makes sense to tiptoe around the use of those terms just to avoid offending sensibilities.

As for the issue at hand, I don't see what more can be done. There aren't enough shelter spaces to keep families together.

If you close your eyes and ears to the option of simply not doing this, a system that was in place until quite recently without the world ending, then I guess that will inevitably lead you to the conclusion that nothing can be done, you having already eliminated the most obvious thing that could be done from consideration. Its not much of a convincing argument though.

They also can't simply be released on their own recognizance and asked to return later for a hearing- that never works. So what is the alternative today?

Sure you can, its what they did before. Is that ideal? No. But this is a bad policy badly executed. A responsible way of implementing this zero tolerance policy would have been to prepare for the 100% predictable (and in fact intended) consequences of it so you don't have these grotesque scenes of terrified children being herded into cages full of strangers. The gross negligence on display in having failed to done anything of the sort is disgusting.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Congress exists to make and change laws. Not the president. It's up to Congress to change the law, not the president. Personally, I'm uncomfortable with presidents deciding which laws to enforce and which to ignore. I think it's a bad precedent to set. Bad laws need to be changed, not ignored.

As for the claim of child abuse; the abuse is being done by the parents. They are responsible for dragging their kids across the Mexican desert and exposing them to myriad dangers. Not to mention that many of the children are not in fact with their parents. The relationships need to be clarified.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

it's up to Congress to change the law,

It's up to the Congress to approve more tents? Does that require a new law? Then families can stay together.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Certainly. Congress is populated by entrenched interests constantly re-elected by those who refuse to admit that their local politician is part of the problem. Few in the USA are actually willing to commit to the belief in a representatve democracy if it means accommodating and sometimes dealing with the positions of those one disagrees with. That said, many Americans have abandoned the libertarian (not a refernce to a political party) ideal of live and let live in favor of a PC/Christian/commie fable demanding that all must convert to a particular system.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"Trump, who has made a tough stance on immigration a centerpiece of his presidency, has staunchly defended his administration's actions. He has cast blame for the family separations on Democrats, although his fellow Republicans control both chambers in Congress"

Unfortunately there are a lot of do-nothing Republicans in Congress including that warmonger John McCain.

zichi: "Major Republicans opposed to the zero policy.

"FLOTUS Melania Trump." No, in a statement issued by her office, the first lady expressed empathy for affected families, saying the country should be governed “with a heart,” but did not directly take issue with President Trump’s policy. Instead, by saying that “both sides” needed to agree, she adopted his argument that the situation was caused by political stalemate rather than a policy he initiated.

Immigrant first lady to the rescue: http://archive.is/nTCrp

"Former first lady Laura Bush." Oh my...

Laura Bush didn't mind when her hubby killed lots of kids: http://archive.is/AdU7A

Laura Bush Hypocritically Weighs in on the Immigration Situation as Melania Urges Sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY6mhtI16is

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Well, when the activity at issue is either fascist, racist or constitutes child abuse - all of which there are arguable cases for in this instance - it hardly makes sense to tiptoe around the use of those terms just to avoid offending sensibilities.

It’s child-abuse when you allow your child to wander through a desert with coyotes or with criminals or to burn up in the desert hot sun, to me that is mentally, physically and emotionally abusive, asked why any parent would even contemplate on doing that is beyond me, I don’t care what the reason is, unless you’re dying, there is no reason for your child, your child should leave your side. They are better off in the detention center with access to games, WiFi Spanish speakers, toilet facilities than being out with people that would abuse them.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Inept Neocon Jeb Bush Tries to Attack Trump on Immigration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DFlZcH99Co

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

There is no "maybe" about it. People on this very forum laughed when I said Trump would win the election, and that was before he was even a candidate.

To be honest, I'm still laughing. The idea of Donald Trump as president is ridiculous. He's just a Gaddafi or a Mussolini, albeit labouring under the constraints of a democratic system (which, naturally, he abhors). He's certainly proved everyone right who said he was incapable of doing the job. No one has looked more ill at ease, and no one has failed so badly to understand the basic responsibilities that go with the position.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Sangetsu03: Trump has not "changed the process," he has returned it to what it once was. Once again, the policy for separating children from illegal immigrants arrested at the border was enacted by George Bush, not Donald Trump.

You support intentionally inflicting harm on children, which was exactly Trump’s intent.

You support that.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

He's lost, period. The NYT is reporting:

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said that “all of the members of the Republican conference support a plan that keeps families together,” endorsing an approach that would provide legal authority to detain parents and children together while their legal status in the country is assessed by the courts.

No, he hasn’t lost.

The president, no matter who it is, can meet with party legislators as well as opposition legislators and suggest legislation but it’s his job to see that their legislation is put into practice not to declare it by executive order. At the moment he is just continuing along the guidelines of the previous administration.

If his party’s leaders take the initiative - which this pack of lethargic future government pensioners rarely does - so much the better since, being the Legislative branch, it’s their job to do so.

Finally, isn’t it in both parties’ interests to make good legislation happen and solve this separation problem? This is no time for one party to “take the moral high ground” but make sure that nothing happens for their own political gain.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If unaccompanied children aren't detained, where should they be? On the street? Deported without any adult to take responsibility for the child?

It takes time to build facilities. Border Control doesn't have many choices. They have to provide a place where the kids can be supervised in as safe and clean environment as possible. Wishing for a dorm doesn't make one appear. People can't be this stupid, can they?

We need to provide health care for all the 12-25M people who jumped the immigration line before these kids decided (for whatever reason) to enter the USA. I don't know about you, but I'm paying almost 4x more for insurance thanks to Obamacare. Seems like my share is "enough" already.

Children can't just be deported. Not until responsible relatives are found or they become adults. Effectively, they are orphans without citizenship in the USA.

So ... exactly what is the solution while facilities are built over the next few years and still more keep coming?

What is the solution that would make you happy?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Not intentionally targeting children for trauma. That would be a good start.

The problem is that so many Trump fans support it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Is there enough space for tents? I've put up tents. Not so hard.

Have you been to south Texas in the summer? They are putting up tents too, BTW:

**Tent camps*. *A temporary facility has been set up in Tornillo, Texas, near El Paso.

"It's a heavy-duty-grade white tent in the middle of a desert. It's behind two chain-link fences and there's a dirt easement that's on top of it so you can't actually see into it from the American side.

There are a number of border migration loopholes, especially around unaccompanied children crossing a border, that need to be solved. Clearly, parents are sending their older kids to the USA, alone. Families are trying to come to the USA together because they know about the 20 day maximum detention mandated by the courts. Under prior administrations, family already in the USA illegally would come forward to claim the children. Now, those families are being checked for their legal immigration status, which is probably going to make the kids end up in foster care.

The ORR says that children are usually turned over to sponsoring families within 60 days.

But I still would like to know the solution to stopping the flood from the left. What is the solution?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

That isn't a solution. That is encouragement and will make the issue worse. Don't you understand that?

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION to end abuse by economic immigrants?

The left wants more of the same, failed, techniques.

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

All this liberal whining.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

They whine but avoid taking responsibility. You libs dont realize how many ordinary people you are driving away from you.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Hey, look on the bright side. At least we haven't heard about whats-her-name the pornstress lately. That has to count for something!

Just saw that the head of DHS was having dinner, and protesters stood shouting at her as she ate. Great tactics, lefties. Do you really want four more years of The Donald that badly?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

wipeout: "The idea of Donald Trump as president is ridiculous."

I dunno, wipeout, a huge number of people think he's already the greatest president we've had in decades if not in history. I guess you're gonna keep saying that until Jan 2025?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Not intentionally targeting children for trauma. That would be a good start.

I support upholding the law. I denounce any parent that would allow their kid to go anywhere especially to a foreign country unattended, that’s just insane!

The problem is that so many Trump fans support it.

Every Trump supporter I know supports the rule of law.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

I support upholding the law. I denounce any parent that would allow their kid to go anywhere especially to a foreign country unattended, that’s just insane!

Unaccompanied children travel the world every day. My own children have done that.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Unaccompanied children travel the world every day. My own children have done that.

But they don’t try to break into any country illegally, that’s the big difference.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Knowing now what we know from the IG report at how bias these cops were, yes, indeed.

False. The IG Report clearly stated: ""We found no evidence that the conclusions by the prosecutors were affected by bias or other improper considerations; rather, we determined that they were based on the prosecutors' assessment of the facts, the law and past department practice."

I hope you know, the President likes to mess with the media the same way they like to mess with him and the funny thing is, the left believe it.

I fail to see how this comment addresses the blatant hypocrisy of those who claim to champion the law but then call for the President to be above the law or call for him to exempt others by abusing the power of the pardon.

You cannot claim to respect the law or demand to have others abide by it when you don't see it applying to everyone equally--and that includes the President and the members of his cabinet and family.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

But what are the American people going to do about this? It is not just Trump, it is the American people who are doing nothing to help these children. It is the American people who are allowing a mentally sick President to run their nation. What about workers going on strike? What about refusing to supply electricity, mail, internet connection, fuel to the White House and to Trump Towers? What about a general strike until Congress take control of this mentally ill President?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Not intentionally targeting children for trauma. That would be a good start.

“Intentionally ... for trauma”?

Okay, I’ll ask anyway... you got proof?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Even animals protect their young. These scum send their kids across miles and miles, sometimes with evil traffickers.

A border agent

*“When you see a 12-year-old girl with a plan B pill, her parents put her on birth control because they know getting violated is part of the journey, that’s a terrible way to live. **When you see a 4-year-old girl traveling alone with just her parents phone number written across her shirt. *

We had a 9-year-old boy have heat stroke in front of us and die with no family around. That’s because we’re allowing people to take advantage of this system.”

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Fizz, yes thise are the facts.

Its Trump who is compassionate here, acting to bring an end to the dreadful abuse these 'parents' inflict on their children. The liberals on this site are the equivalent of useless box-ticking social workers who knowingly leave abused children with the parents. Shameful.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

rlperez@hotmail.com.au - Do you think we should the same as Australia? Ship them to other countries, keep them away from our borders AND their country of origin?

Australia learned that too much compassion just causes more people to come.

At its peak, 18,000 people arrived in Australia illegally by sea. However the numbers plummeted after the government introduced tough new policies to "stop the boats".

WHAT IS THE SOLUTION to end abuse by economic immigrants?

I'm waiting.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The liberals on this site are the equivalent of useless box-ticking social workers who knowingly leave abused children with the parents.

I-in-8 American children suffer abuse from their parents. That's 9.1 million children. More than 1,000 American children go missing every single day of the year. More than 10,000 are used in the sex trade.

Good to see so many conservatives concerned by the abuse of children but they need to start at home first.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Donald Trump will sign an executive order on Wednesday ending this practice of separating the children from their parents. The president folded to the pressure.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Kirstjen Nielsen, the homeland security secretary, was at the White House minutes ago. The homeland security department has been overseeing family separation.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Trump live "he wants to keep the families together and end the separations."

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Salvadoran postman Cen Epigmenio told Reuters news agency he hoped to cross the Mexican border into the US in the coming months.

But the 40-year-old said he and his wife have postponed their plans for fear of being separated from their two sons, Axel, nine, and Steven, three.

Waiting for any viable solution to stop economic migrants trying to enter the USA illegally or abuse loopholes in the current system.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

“Honestly, we need people coming into our country,” Trump said.

There is currently no system in place to reunite families, including those where the parents have already been deported while the children are held in US government custody.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Nancy Pelosi and the democrats holding press conference on the steps of the congress. #Families Belong Together.

Keep Families Together Act.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

President Trump was getting bad advice and info from his Chief of Staff, who started pushing this policy in March 2017 while at DHS.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

President Trump was getting bad advice and info from his Chief of Staff, who started pushing this policy in March 2017 while at DHS.

Liberals have very short memories.

https://youtu.be/UiUzJB3nagw

and...

https://youtu.be/Lps-As9djiw

Ohhhh, the lefts hypocrisy....smh....

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Well it's good the administration has come to the proper realization. I guess they realized that pushing this special interest issue was too damaging for the party reputation.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Liberals have very short memories.

I informed you yesterday, once again I'm not a liberal but you find it impossible not to label me.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

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