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EU and Britain far apart as key week of Brexit talks begins

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By Jan Strupczewski, John Chalmers and Elizabeth Piper

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In a totally related "incident" Swiss voters rejected (yesterday's referendum) curbs on EU immigration.

Changes on Switzerland's Treaty obligations had been proposed (and championed) by their N Farage's equivalent. The vote was a resounding NO.

"https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/27/europe/switzerland-referendum-eu-immigration-intl/index.html"

Switzerland was told clearly "no cherry picking allowed"; they listened.

The real Farage must be disappointed, as he sought Brexit inspiration on Switzerland.

A lot more disappointment is forthcoming.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

especially on the sensitive Irish border.

There is no Irish border. That's why we've had peace for two decades.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The UK is in for a rude awakening. The EU is not giving them a trade deal if they do not respect EU rules. And it doesn’t get to unilaterally re-write the withdrawal agreement.

The EU seems perfectly willing to let Britain walk and pay the consequences.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

The EU and the UK fighting over who can wring the most out of traders and producers-sad!

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

There is no Irish border. That's why we've had peace for two decades.

Very true. But seeing how it looks more and more like the UK is going for a hard brexit under Boris, it might be a good idea for the North to hold a referendum on remaining in the UK or Irish unification.

I keep saying this and will continue to do so:

Lets try to have a FTA and OPEN BORDERS deal with Canada OZ and NZ. A Canzuk deal would go a very long way in softening the blow a hard brexit will have on the UK and current EU trade deals with both Canada and Australia might be a good template to examine when considering a future deal with the EU.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"The UK's positions are far apart from what the EU can accept, a deputy head of the bloc's executive Commission, Maros Sefcovic, said on Monday after talks with Michael Gove, the minister handling the divorce deal.

"We maintain that the bill, if adopted in its current form, would constitute an extremely serious violation of ... the Withdrawal Agreement and of international law," he said, urging speedy progress before he meets Gove again in mid-October.

The UK Government, has made it abundantly clear, at least politically, that by the 15th October, an agreement on a form of draft legal text must be the essence of EU-UK future relationship.

That statement and Michael Gove briefs indicate that UK Government is not, in reality pursing a FTA.

But a bare-bones, WTO, with added protocols.

I am inclined to believe the Withdrawal Agreement is in effect, from the UK Government point of view, been for some time surplus to requirements......Read here....

Policy paper, our approach to the Future Relationship with the EU

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-approach-to-the-future-relationship-with-the-eu

The Swiss referendum vote, whether to retain freedom of movement with EU member states, is not and never intended to be a binary vote on EU membership.  If fact the legislature detailed here needs no explanation.

Vote results: September 27, 2020…..

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/vote-results--september-27--2020/46031964

The implication of a clean break for EU member states are dreadful, and clearly laid out.

And the reason why Michel Barnier, the European Commission's Head of Task Force for Relations with the United Kingdom, is still negotiating, even to the point that Johnson Government is breaching a signed Treaty and International Law.

Johnson has called Barnier bluff. Or could that be Cummings? One or the other, perhaps both.

On another point, if Gove is insisting the Internal Market Bill, it can be rammed through the Commons

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"The Swiss referendum vote, whether to retain freedom of movement with EU member states, is not and never intended to be a binary vote on EU membership"

Switzerland is not/never been part of the EU. This is sort of "misconception" is one of the reasons Brexit "exists".

You are missing the point and significance of Sunday's referendum as far as Brexit is concerned; entirely.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

You are perfectly correct, however ....

Institutional framework agreement switzerland-eu: Supported by Swiss business – further clarifications and roadmap needed……

https://www.economiesuisse.ch/sites/default/files/articles/downloads/Fact%20sheet%20Institutional%20framework%20agreement_0.pdf

There is a paradox, in effect over 140 bilateral agreements, and the Swiss authorities have no say over amendments. This is the scenario that the UK Government is wishing to avoid.

I am contending that that the Swiss are a de facto EU Member state in all but name.

Another opinion…..

Framework Agreement between Switzerland and the EU…December 2019

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=cde80fa7-2e80-47fd-bedf-cf3fbbc5ce64   

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Another area is financial services, and the Swiss have been again suggesting both the UK and Swiss financial authorities.... well .....

In June, the Swiss and British finance ministers signaled their intent to start negotiating a deal that could “serve as a possible template for international cooperation in the area of financial services.”

The goal is to find “mutual recognition” that each side intends to allow business to flow freely while protecting consumers and weeding out bad actors. Mutual recognition is another term for trust – that the other side thinks the same way about regulations and will continue to do so.

Swiss-UK financial services pact antidote to EU intransigence...

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-uk-financial-services-pact-offers-antidote-to-uncompromising-eu/46021994

Basically EU commission is intending, member states will forward the proceeds of an intended punitive environmental carbon and digital tax, outlined collectively under the rather innocuous own Resources levy to proportionately contribute to the socalled EU's coronavirus recovery fund.

However borrowing will be required on the International Capital Markets, some 390billion Euros at the last count,

Issuing bonds with maturities of three to 30 years. The options, margins, costs will magnify significantly if EU institutions and businesses have to raise capitol outside of London.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"I am contending that that the Swiss are a de facto EU Member state in all but name."

Certainly not.

Switzerland is signatory to the Economic Area. Signatories of the

EEA candidates/subscribers MUST accept the EU's four pillars (immigration is one of the four pillars) or else they're out.

Brexiteers promised that the UK would come out of the EU then sign up to the European Economic Area, just like the Swiss, the Norwegians and Iceland do.

Surprisingly, neither Farage, nor Hannan knew what this entailed. They had no clue.

"Swiss authorities have no say over amendments."

They knew this when joining the EEA.

"This is the scenario that the UK Government is wishing to avoid."

I doubt the UK will succeed where the Swiss have failed twice.

This is the second time the Swiss attempted, (a la Boris )to renege on Treaty Terms.

Both times the EU said: "no cherry-picking". "If you wanna go, you're really going".

Twice the Swiss populace had a change of hart on unilaterally changing contractual terms.

They realised they're not that sexy.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Peeping Tom, that is an unarguable, balanced assessment.

I am of the same opinion that the UK Government, Lisbon treaty prevailing, would fail to negotiate a more favorable agreement.

I am not convinced Johnson Government wants to though.

It is the existing trade surpluses and deficits across the block, could be a deal changer.

It is not politically congenial putting it mildly.

The EEA is a poor alternative especially in the area of dispute resolution, the EU Law/EFTA Law, the insistence of principle, that individuals and companies/operators have the same enforceable rights in both systems.

The EFTA Court does not recognize these principles of/to direct effect/primacy to any written obligation to any dispute.

You must be frustrated and angry, if a citizen of a EU member state employed in the UK, you may soon have a good reason to be. Sorry

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

The EU seems perfectly willing to let Britain walk and pay the consequences.

How quaintly amusing. An organization that issues threats to a member who wishes to leave is not one I wish to be a part of.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

UK should just give up Northern Ireland and enjoy poverty and isolation.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Very true. But seeing how it looks more and more like the UK is going for a hard brexit under Boris, it might be a good idea for the North to hold a referendum on remaining in the UK or Irish unification.

Much as I'd love it tomorrow, we have many people whose primary identity is British, and a half-arsed referendumb would be a disaster just as woeful as Brexit.

Let the hare sit for a few years. People will soon discover they can't eat a flag, even if its one smothered in HP Sauce (now made in the Netherlands).

5 ( +5 / -0 )

How quaintly amusing. An organization that issues threats to a member who wishes to leave is not one I wish to be a part of.

Bungle: I want to leave your club.

Club: Okay.

Bungle: I also want all the benefits of being in your club, plus some additional benefits, but I don’t want to pay membership or follow the club rules.

Club: What? No, you can’t do that.

Bungle: I’m being attacked.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

"You must be frustrated and angry, if a citizen of a EU member state employed in the UK, you may soon have a good reason to be. Sorry"

So I see.

You think only citizens of a “EU member state employed in the UK” will suffer because of Brexit.

I certainly will not be affected, because of my Passport’s colour.

"Sorry"

I is very sorry too, especially after getting the impression some think all is well in the Land of Oz and foreigners alone have reasons to worry.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I'll just leave this here:

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/brexit/what-a-no-deal-brexit-could-mean-for-food-prices/648525.article?fbclid=IwAR0rELqrLNPGdyxMHlxsGgRwUzG534C5f1FqO4XdU2FTPr9OVQH63AUbmS8

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Lets try to have a FTA and OPEN BORDERS deal with Canada OZ and NZ. A Canzuk deal would go a very long way in softening the blow a hard brexit will have on the UK and current EU trade deals with both Canada and Australia might be a good template to examine when considering a future deal with the EU.

Aly Rustom

What country in their right mind is going to enter a trade agreement with a nation that has made it clear that it is perfectly willing to violate international law whenever it sees fit? Sure, Canzuk might work at first, but what happens when the UK decides it doesn’t like the terms of the deal and decides to arbitrarily and unilaterally change them? ANY FTA is predicated on the assumption that all parties to the agreement will abide by it, and the UK has made it clear it’s untrustworthy

10 ( +11 / -1 )

What country in their right mind is going to enter a trade agreement with a nation that has made it clear that it is perfectly willing to violate international law whenever it sees fit?

Seems to work for China just fine.

Sure, Canzuk might work at first, but what happens when the UK decides it doesn’t like the terms of the deal and decides to arbitrarily and unilaterally change them? ANY FTA is predicated on the assumption that all parties to the agreement will abide by it, and the UK has made it clear it’s untrustworthy

One can say the exact same thing about Trump's America and CCP's China. Nope. Canzuk can and hopefully will happen. More Remoaner BS. I didn't vote for Brexit. But I have to accept it as a reality. So should you.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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