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New Trump rule targets poor and could cut legal immigration in half, advocates say

88 Comments
By Daniel Trotta and Mica Rosenberg

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88 Comments

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So here is your legal immigrant pool.

while just 39 percent had one of the heavily weighed positive factors.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

Trump's "brains" came up with this cunning plan simply by googling " GOV.UK" / immigration rules and lo and behold they came up with Theresa May's infamous "hostile environment" that has created a "hell on earth" for tens of thousands of families. The USA will soon get a taste of that bitter Tory snake oil, so good luck with that rancid, second-hand stratagem which in the UK has proven to be not fit for purpose!

5 ( +9 / -4 )

while just 39 percent had one of the heavily weighed positive factors.

About the same percentage as conservatives with s measurable IQ.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

This will only create more incentives for illegal overstays.

This whole proposal is so ridiculous i don't know where to even begin.

Why is Trump or anybody else in any position to say what is "enough income"? Enough for whom? Who defines what is "enough"? And to whom is a "low income" a problem? Just because somebody has a "low income" today, does not mean they won't have high income tomorrow. How many Americans change their jobs in an year? It's a normal practice to grow your skills in a job and move to a higher income position.

Also, about the "merit-based immigration". Who decides who has merit and who doesn't? Shouldn't the market decide that, or should it be a politician? Everybody has some merit. Even people with little skills have merit. And another constantly perpetuated myth is that, once poor, always poor. That is simply ridiculously untrue.

If Trump joins a software company, he will be a low paying cheap labor as he loves to put it. His skills will be minimum, his pay will be low. Within 3-5 months, hopefully he would have learned more, and he would move to a higher position, and his pay will increase, he will no longer be "cheap", he will have become "expensive" labor, but if you remove the "low paying" positions, then you are making it impossible for people to get to the high paying positions, unless they train some place else, or graduate the best university in the country and get hired directly.

No matter how unskilled and poor immigrants are at first, they are always benefit to an economy, because at the very least, they are consumers, they buy stuff, and they create demand. However, most immigrants do not stay "poor" forever, they change positions just like everybody else. If you do not allow low paying people to do low paying jobs, then those jobs will move to a foreign country, and there will be less production in the US, and more unemployment. Americans are not going to do a job that pays less than the welfare benefits.

Trump's entire understanding of economics is completely false. He also does not seem to have a lot of respect for the separation of powers, and consensus-based decisions, as he always wants to have his way without seeking approval from others. He thinks he is right, and he is too arrogant to accept the possibility that he may be wrong. He only hires people who agree with him so they can tell him what he already believes.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

So here is your legal immigrant pool.

Bingo!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

Rightists can never hide their hate and feelings of superiority long.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Donny's attempting to write a new law regarding immigration, he's not implementing a change to enforcement. Congress has plenary power to write immigration law whereas Donny has the power regarding enforcement of those laws.

This means what Donny is doing is unconstitutional. Of course, no that SCOTUS is a majority corrupt conservative bench, they'll ignore the constitution in favor of Donny. Activist justices. Smh.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

All countries have a right to choose immigrants who stand the best chance of improving their new country. There is no “right to immigration.”

4 ( +13 / -9 )

"The long-anticipated rule, pushed by Trump's leading aide on immigration, Stephen Miller," here we go again, Stephen Miller, words can not describe this individual, as a jew has he forgotten his history, has he forgotten the persecution of his relations, his uncle was right to criticize him. So now he is doing to poor immigrants to what happened to all jews in Europe prior and during WW ll. These words on the Statue of Liberty that reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." were what made America the destination of all those immigrants who wanted a better life, I wonder what drove them to leave their own countries for a life in the unknown. I only hope that this rule never gets passed and that all decent Americans fight to get it quashed.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

All countries have a right to choose immigrants who stand the best chance of improving their new country. There is no “right to immigration.”

Good thing nobody was claiming there is a right to immigration.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The GOP loves to starve children. This administration really loves hurting kids.

"The principle driving it is an old American value and that's self-sufficiency," Cuccinelli said in a Fox News interview.

Oh, that's rich coming from Trump and his administration.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Does this mean they will have to change the quote on the Statue of Liberty? Instead of "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses ..." I guess it would then be changed to "Give me your strong, rich, white ...." This is what Trump's America is turning out to be.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

New rule based on income to prevent vagrants and professional welfare recipients from reaching the US.

NILC: "the rule was racially motivated"

For the 100th time, how so? Unless you are the racist here to think only non-whites can be poor..for gods sake

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Targetting the poor again, whilst giving tax cuts to the rich.

This time it's legal migrants. You know, the people that Trumpists say they welcome to the US as in "it's the illegals we don't want".

Oh, America. What have you become?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

This means what Donny is doing is unconstitutional. Of course, no that SCOTUS is a majority corrupt conservative bench, they'll ignore the constitution in favor of Donny. Activist justices. Smh.

Congress in on vacation, the Democrats could care less about our broken immigration laws, illegal aliens illegal crossing our borders or closing down the border, it’s simple, if congress refuses or are unwilling to do their job, the President should step in.

The GOP loves to starve children. This administration really loves hurting kids.

I think liberals don’t care one iota for these kids. They are all pawns. And if they did, they wouldn’t leave on vacation, they would have been honest and tried to fix this situation back in 2014, if they cared they would have signed that $4.5 billion for humanitarian, but they didn’t. If the Democrats really cared about these kids they wouldn’t try to exploit them, if they cared about them, they wouldn’t have tried to stop the president from seeing the border, if they would’ve cared, they would’ve done everything to stop the flow of illegal immigration.

Oh, that's rich coming from Trump and his administration.

Where are the Democrats? Anybody seen them?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Targetting the poor again, whilst giving tax cuts to the rich.

Has nothing to do with rich or poor, it has everything to do with breaking the law

This time it's legal migrants. You know, the people that Trumpists say they welcome to the US as in "it's the illegals we don't want".

The problem is we have so many illegals in the country that we can’t absorb all of them, so we need to put a break on everything and then once these immigrants have acclimated themselves to the country come then we can try again, I don’t think anything is wrong with that, it doesn’t mean we’re stopping it, We are just taking a breather, at this pace the system is breaking, this has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with the Democrats, because they’ve made it so toxic and unfair for illegal immigrants trying to get into this country, and I feel terribly bad for them, because they fold the rules in the system and now they have to suffer as a result of the Democrats actions.

Oh, America. What have you become?

A country now slowly where you have Democrats trying to usurp the entire political process and turn it into a socialist nightmare.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Has nothing to do with rich or poor, it has everything to do with breaking the law

It's about targetting poor legal migrants. A demographic which until Trump did this, was ok with you.

Once again, a massive contradictory u-turn by Trumpists.

A country now slowly where you have Democrats trying to usurp the entire political process and turn it into a socialist nightmare.

This statement has no basis in fact. Zero credibility.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Congress in on vacation, the Democrats could care less about our broken immigration laws, illegal aliens illegal crossing our borders or closing down the border, it’s simple, if congress refuses or are unwilling to do their job, the President should step in.

The constitution disagrees with you. If you are willing to ignore the constitution here, we get to ignore it and snatch your guns.

I think liberals don’t care one iota for these kids. They are all pawns. And if they did, they wouldn’t leave on vacation, they would have been honest and tried to fix this situation back in 2014,

Conservatives are in vacation also. Back in their hometowns whipping up ignorance-driven fear amongst their bass.

Oh, yeah, Dems tried to take action twice in 2013 only to be thwarted by open-border republicans both times.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Has nothing to do with rich or poor, it has everything to do with breaking the law

Someone didn't read the article and instead ran right for their usual bad faith tacticts.

The problem is we have so many illegals in the country that we can’t absorb all of them, so we need to put a break on everything and then once these immigrants have acclimated themselves to the country come then we can try again, I don’t think anything is wrong with that, it doesn’t mean we’re stopping it, We are just taking a breather, at this pace the system is breaking, this has nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with the Democrats, because they’ve made it so toxic and unfair for illegal immigrants trying to get into this country, and I feel terribly bad for them, because they fold the rules in the system and now they have to suffer as a result of the Democrats actions.

This has zero basis in reality, but is completely valid in the untethered world of the conservative bubble. It's also another prime example of Bass advancing bad faith arguments.

A country now slowly where you have Democrats trying to usurp the entire political process and turn it into a socialist nightmare.

Damn the democrats for engaging in the political process! Damn them all to hell!!!!

2 ( +6 / -4 )

It's about targetting poor legal migrants.

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy? If we were not in the situation we are in right now is being overrun by so many illegals and don’t know where to put them in in many of these liberal states in the sanctuary cities they are all over the place and it is putting more of a burden on to the taxpayer, which now puts pressure on those illegals that are poor, so now as a result they have to sit through as well because of the current situation.

A demographic which until Trump did this, was ok with you.

Yes and it still is, but I have always felt if this trend continues and if Democrats don’t get on board with trying to fix the border, the first people are going to suffer will be illegals and then poor legal immigrants because they have less to contribute.

Once again, a massive contradictory u-turn by Trumpists.

No, not at all.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

THE U.S. IS DENYING CITIZENSHIP TO SERVICE MEMBERS AT AN UNPRECEDENTED RATE

https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-u-s-is-denying-citizenship-to-service-members-at-an-unprecedented-rate

For all the Trumpsters, what is your excuse for denying legal immigrants who have followed the rules and met all the requirements?

United States immigration authorities are denying military service member applications for citizenship at a higher rate than their civilian counterparts, newly released data from the Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) shows. 

The Dump administration are denying legal and illegal immigrants!

Domingo Garcia, national president of the League of United Latin American Citizens, says that the treatment of immigrant service members is one of the many ways in which the Trump administration seems to have upended the traditional commitments of prior administrations. "Under previous administrations, normally immigrants who served were expedited—they were allowed to become U.S. citizens as a matter of an earned right," he says. "What we're seeing now is just total discriminatory behavior by this current administration—against all immigrants, but singling out immigrants who have served for harsher treatment is just beyond the pale of basic human decency and American values."

What is you excuse now? Where are the comments to defend Dump?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy?

They do the meanial labor that citizen don't want to do and that keeps the rest of the economy going. I thought you knew about economics, etc.

If we were not in the situation we are in right now is being overrun by so many illegals and don’t know where to put them in in many of these liberal states in the sanctuary cities they are all over the place and it is putting more of a burden on to the taxpayer, which now puts pressure on those illegals that are poor, so now as a result they have to sit through as well because of the current situation.

Unintelligible.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Yes and it still is, but I have always felt if this trend continues and if Democrats don’t get on board with trying to fix the border,

Dems tried twice in 2013, but republicans didn't want to lift a finger then. This allows the logical inference that your outrage is wholly manufactured.

the first people are going to suffer will be illegals and then poor legal immigrants because they have less to contribute.

Poor immigrants have a lot to contribute beyond investments; it's called hardwork, which people born with rich mommies and/or daddies have no clue about.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"I'm the least racist person you'll find anywhere in the world," and the moon is made out of green cheese.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Trump and the alt-right racist Repubs just doing more to turn the Statue of Liberty from facing outward to facing inward...

They cower in their homes and cling to their assault weapons, listening to Trump and the right wing media bubble tell them that immigrants are invading our country, taking American jobs (you know all those good lettuce picking jobs), and committing crime after crime.

All the while a white Trump supporter acting on Trump's hate speech guns down 23 innocent people, many Hispanic, in El Paso.

Maybe this policy to reduce immigrants has a silver lining - I can at least tell my Hispanic friends it will reduce your chance of being shot by a MAGA hat wearing crazed Trump supporter...

1 ( +6 / -5 )

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy?

Americans who live in a country founded by immigrants didn't have a problem with poor immigrants when they were European or imported African slaves!

4 ( +9 / -5 )

For all the Trumpsters, what is your excuse for denying legal immigrants who have followed the rules and met all the requirements?

I already explained.

Liberals keep approaching this issue emotionally, they will always lose that way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/us/immigration-border-mexico.html

They do the meanial labor that citizen don't want to do

That is not necessarily true, if you offer them a decent wage for example nine, 10 or $15 an hour, the way that the liberals want then you would see many Americans do those menial labor jobs.

Dems tried twice in 2013,

But the Democrats never wanted to cover implant up any loopholes that were completely stop the flow of illegal immigration, they wouldn’t stop catching release, they wouldn’t punish visa overstayers, they wouldn’t end birthright citizenship come with the wind in the visa lottery program, they wouldn’t completely seal the border, they would not build any type of wall or barrier, if you want to call it that, nothing.

Poor immigrants have a lot to contribute beyond investments; it's called hardwork, which people born with rich mommies and/or daddies have no clue about.

Some, but not all. We all know that immigrants work very hard, but right now we are at the breaking point and we need to put a temporary pause on immigration, especially illegal immigration. But as I said before, the people that are going to suffer the most from this are the illegal aliens and then the poor less or no skilled legal immigrants for a little while. I don’t like seeing this happening to any legal immigrant, that has been law abiding, but for now we need to get our borders under control and we need to allow the legal immigrants to acclimate themselves to their new country.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Republicans are such a bunch of hypocrites. They want to change long-standing laws regarding even legal immigrants now, but will cry foul if anyone even mentions touching their outdated gun laws.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

I submit that anyone who favors this rule, who also has ancestors that would not have met it, return to those ancestors' country of origin immediately. GET OUT! WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE!

1 ( +7 / -6 )

This article belongs on the Opinion page. Canada is a lot stricter that the US when it comes to legal immigration and new immigrants not becoming a burden on their new countries tax payers. Stop playing to emotion JT. There are billions of poor people in the world. They all do not have a right to live in any country of their choosing and to be supported by said countries taxpayers. There is a reason why some countries are more successful than others. Encouraging dependency is not the way to national prosperity.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Republicans are such a bunch of hypocrites. They want to change long-standing laws regarding even legal immigrants now, but will cry foul if anyone even mentions touching their outdated gun laws.

Why don't you pitch out the entire "outdated" Constitution while you are at it. After all, it's 240 years old! Who needs free speech, freedom of assembly, and protections from unreasonable searches and seizures. Those are all 18th century ways of thinking.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

right now we are at the breaking point

Why? Because Trump said so at one of his fascist rallies?

Show us some data to back up this assertion.

the people that are going to suffer the most from this are the illegal aliens and then the poor less or no skilled legal immigrants for a little while. I don’t like seeing this happening to any legal immigrant, that has been law abiding, but for now we need to get our borders under control and we need to allow the legal immigrants to acclimate themselves to their new country.

Translation, please. I suspect you simply haven't read the article.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

All the Trump-haters on this site need to watch this link to have a clear understanding of President Trump's implementation of immigration policy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpDJZQiRGBE

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Heh, the Trumpets were trying to claim that they were for legal immigration. Now we get to watch them pretend they never were.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

That is not necessarily true, if you offer them a decent wage for example nine, 10 or $15 an hour, the way that the liberals want then you would see many Americans do those menial labor jobs.

So, you're disparaging the Dems for wanting a living wage whilst also using it as a way to incentivize Americans o do the menial labor that immigrants do. Either way, I answered your question in the context of the reality we live in.

But the Democrats never wanted to cover implant up any loopholes that were completely stop the flow of illegal immigration, they wouldn’t stop catching release, they wouldn’t punish visa overstayers, they wouldn’t end birthright citizenship come with the wind in the visa lottery program, they wouldn’t completely seal the border, they would not build any type of wall or barrier, if you want to call it that, nothing.

You've been repeatedly educated on exactly what the Dems wanted in 2013, but you constantly reject those facts. Those facts, by the way, refute your contentions.

Some, but not all. We all know that immigrants work very hard, but right now we are at the breaking point and we need to put a temporary pause on immigration, especially illegal immigration. But as I said before, the people that are going to suffer the most from this are the illegal aliens and then the poor less or no skilled legal immigrants for a little while. I don’t like seeing this happening to any legal immigrant, that has been law abiding, but for now we need to get our borders under control and we need to allow the legal immigrants to acclimate themselves to their new country.

Ummm . . . The vast majority of immigrants, both documented and undocumented enter through ports of entry, which means your manufactured outrage about getting the border under control is completely inaccurate. This isn't a surprise given you think 2% GDP growth is stagnant and that a bill passed in 2010 was responsible for the financial crisis that kicked off in 2007.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@WolfPack

Why don't you pitch out the entire "outdated" Constitution while you are at it. After all, it's 240 years old! Who needs free speech, freedom of assembly, and protections from unreasonable searches and seizures. Those are all 18th century ways of thinking.

That is an interesting statement seeing that The Dump Administration lead by the Moron in Chief is trying too do just that.

He added: "Although the government may be able to support and assist online platforms’ efforts to reduce hate and violence online, the government should not try to impose speech regulations on private platforms. As politicians from both sides of the political spectrum have historically urged, the government should not be in the business of regulating speech."

White House drafting executive order to tackle Silicon Valley’s alleged anti-conservative bias

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/white-house-tech-censorship-1639051

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Unless you have refugee status, you must show a means of support to immigrate to the U.S. The alternative is to have a sponsor who will support you. The days of anyone without means of support are over. The U.S. is not the only country who has this prerequisite. It's just that we haven't been strictly enforcing it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy?

Funny that, Trump wants to bring back jobs, but his supporters say poor people can't contribute. Hummmm, unless you have not noticed jobs have been exported from USA to countries with mostly poor people.

A labor pool is a labor pool, every country needs a labor pool, because if you don't some one else will exploit that deficiency. Look at China and how it affects rich and poor in USA, ie it exports its spare capacity wholesale to USA.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I thought you would never ask! 

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

This link does not support the assertion that the US is at the breaking point regarding legal immigration.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@bass4funk

No, it’s pure unfettered emotion.

Prove it! Or in your words, So what?

You’re making a strawman argument, even coming to Japan, you need to have some sort of skill in order to survive, you just can’t walk into this country poor 

Your logic is failing you, you are not helping your argument. LOL!

1) The article and this discussion is referring to legal immigrants.

2) Having a skill in order to survive is not the argument.

3) You are purposely ignoring the most important point of my post. Here it is:

*immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.*

4) So, working adults international students and employees using public services that they pay for will be used against them.

5) You can legally immigrant to Japan with only the clothes on your back.

LOL! Are going to delete my post?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

.........THE U.S. IS DENYING CITIZENSHIP TO SERVICE MEMBERS AT AN UNPRECEDENTED RATE

Id like to know the percentage of those who serve, naturalize, retire, then return to their original country and live off a tax payer US military pension

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

*immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.*

Once again, how many Trumpsters are OK with being denied your legal status in Japan because you used the National Health Insurance or Unemployment insurance that you paid for while living and working in Japan legally?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Id like to know the percentage of those who serve, naturalize, retire, then return to their original country and live off a tax payer US military pension

The pension that those people paid into whilst they were serving our country?

Why does this matter?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

All the Trump-haters on this site need to watch this link to have a clear understanding of President Trump's implementation of immigration policy

Vern, implementation of immigration law/policy is one thing, but Donny's trying to legislate here.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Prove it!

I did already.

Your logic is failing you

I disagree.

1) The article and this discussion is referring to legal immigrants.

Yes

2) Having a skill in order to survive is not the argument.

As most liberals are emotional on this issue, you would prefer that we just continue to let everyone in at this pace, that is a disaster ready to happen and as I have said before, we need to take a breather in to observe these people and find a way how to deal with the legal issue, and then deal with the legal immigrants especially the financially less fortunate ones.

3) You are purposely ignoring the most important point of my post.

They could be various reasons validated reasons for this, for one thing how people are trying to cheat the system into gaining entitlements as well as Obamacare, that cannot be ruled out.

4) So, working adults international students and employees using public services that they pay for will be used against them.

As I have stated for the reasons previously, yes and this has been going back for a while it’s something that the Republicans supported

5) You can legally immigrant to Japan with only the clothes on your back. 

With the clothes on my back, but if I can’t show proof of employment with that I can take care of myself or that I am not a burden to society, then it’s a completely different story

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy?

Surely, you are joking? This is not a serious question at all. If you want to ask a serious question, how about who's gonna clean up Trump's mess at Mar-a-Lago and all the other properties he owns? Not Melania! It's capitalist economics 101, where capital is accumulated on the backs, blood, sweat and tears of the laboring poor. If you don't believe me, just get yourself a little learning and google Karl Marx, for starters. If Karl doesn't convince, then I can strongly recommend the two-volume "Who Built America".

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Thelongtermer

Id like to know the percentage of those who serve, naturalize, retire, then return to their original country and live off a tax payer US military pension.

Does it matter? They met their end of the contractual agreement. If you don't like it then make all US citizens like the draft dodging president serve. However, anyone willing to risk their life for another country will more than likely want to live there longterm.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

As most liberals are emotional on this issue, you would prefer that we just continue to let everyone in at this pace, that is a disaster ready to happen and as I have said before, we need to take a breather in to observe these people and find a way how to deal with the legal issue, and then deal with the legal immigrants especially the financially less fortunate ones.

Once again, trying to claim some one is being illogical because you are doing just that. Projecting much, like the president?

As I have stated for the reasons previously, yes and this has been going back for a while it’s something that the Republicans supported

As it applies to you and the other Trumpsters in Japan, you are OK with being denied your legal status in Japan because you used the National Health Insurance or Unemployment insurance that you paid for while living and working in Japan legally?

I disagree.

As someone proven wrong would with no logical rebuttal would.

They could be various reasons validated reasons for this, for one thing how people are trying to cheat the system into gaining entitlements as well as Obamacare, that cannot be ruled out.

There is no distinction between following the rules and defrauding the system only legal immigrants using services that they pay for can lose their legal status. Statistics show that American citizens are the vast majority of abusers of public services!

Would you and the other Trumpsters accept losing your legal status in Japan for using public services that you pay for like NHI and unemployment insurance because it is a burden on the Japanese citizens?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Once again, trying to claim some one is being illogical

Because of anger driven emotions, yes.

As it applies to you and the other Trumpsters in Japan, you are OK with being denied your legal status in Japan because you used the National Health Insurance or Unemployment insurance that you paid for while living and working in Japan legally?

That has nothing to do with the situation and I cannot put myself in that situation because I do have money and I followed all the rules when I first came to Japan, so I’m sorry, I can’t put myself in a financial or social position of anyone other than my own or relate to people similar to me.

As someone proven wrong would with no logical rebuttal would.

I feel the same about most liberals.

There is no distinction between following the rules and defrauding the system only legal immigrants using services that they pay for can lose their legal status. Statistics show that American citizens are the vast majority of abusers of public services! 

You can believe that, I do not.

Would you and the other Trumpsters accept losing your legal status in Japan for using public services that you pay for like NHI and unemployment insurance because it is a burden on the Japanese citizens?

I don’t use the Japanese NHI, so question doesn’t apply to me.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The poor can marry some rich dude like the first lady did. They can improve their education. They can do the jobs many Americans don't want to do. They can start a business.

I suspect Trump believes America is only for the well off white folks.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Liberals keep approaching this issue emotionally, they will always lose that way.

It isn't emotional to point out the hypocrisy in your logic!

Has nothing to do with rich or poor, it has everything to do with breaking the law

It's about targeting poor legal migrants. Please read!

1865 was a long time ago.

So was the Revolutionary War, yet you have a lot racist waving the confederate flag and supporting Dump!

 immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance, food stamps and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S. 

So, for all the hypocritical Trumpsters supporting this move, how many of you would be deported from Japan for using the National Health Insurance like Obamacare or unemployment benefits that they/we actually pay for?

@Moderator: You allow people to straight lie on these post, but when prove that poster are lying then it is be "Impolite to Users". Really?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

and find a way how to deal with the legal issue, 

The legal issue with legal immigration? That's a new form of mental gymnastics even for you.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funk

I don’t use the Japanese NHI, so question doesn’t apply to me.

If you live in Japan you pay into the health insurance for yourself, your Japanese wife and your kids. If you haven't needed to visit a hospital or doctor then you are fortunate. Children get sick and need to visit the doctor?

Just like your children are required to attend school.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Being poor isn’t a problem. We were poor - dirt floor, no electricity or running water. Yet 7 kids, all successful - 6 4-year undergrads, 4 grad school degrees all paid for thru hard work and savings. None of us ever took welfare, food stamps, etc.

Those who inherited their money wouldn’t understand.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@bass4funk

That has nothing to do with the situation and I cannot put myself in that situation because I do have money and I followed all the rules when I first came to Japan, so I’m sorry, I can’t put myself in a financial or social position of anyone other than my own or relate to people similar to me.

So you are refusing to respond because you will be admitting to your faulty logic!

Is Obamacare paid national health insurance? Yes

Is Japanese National Health Insurance paid insurance? Yes

Do you have to be a working adult, spouse or dependent to pay and receive benefits for both? Yes

Are working legal immigrants allowed to pay into both? Yes

If a legal immigrant uses the National health insurance or unemployment benefits that they pay for, can they lose their legal status? Only the US!

* immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used Obamacare, children's health insurance and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.*

Are Japan-based Trumpsters willing to lose their legal status for using their NHI and unemployment insurance that they paid for? Hmmmmmmm!

bass4funk has already avoided answering the question! Anyone else?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

If you live in Japan you pay into the health insurance for yourself,

Just because I pay into it, doesn’t mean I have to use it.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

"Canada is a lot stricter that the US when it comes to legal immigration.."

Exactly. Which Western nation (only fair since the US is always judged compared to Scandinavian nations) has more liberal immigration than the US? Yet, even if the US seeks an immigration system similar to Canada the comparison to Nazis seems to arise with critics. Europe, Australia or Japan are arguably as racist as the US or more so. After the 2015 migration of refugees from the Middle East, Europe shut down illegal migration with deals with Turkey and Libya. The EU now lets ITALY do their "dirty work" so they can pretend to keep their "open borders" values intact.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

completely misleading headline. the law says immigrants should not be able to get welfare and should have jobs. that is how japan does it too. foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden? its completely logical and its how all other countries do it.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@Dango Bango

foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden? its completely logical and its how all other countries do it.

But legal immigrants in Japan are allowed to pay for and use public services.

 immigrants living legally in the U.S. who have ever used or whose household members have ever used **Obamacare,** children's health insurance and other benefits could be hindered from obtaining legal status in the U.S.

Are you willing to lose your legal status for using their NHI and unemployment insurance that you paid for?

That includes pension!

@bass4funk

Just because I pay into it, doesn’t mean I have to use it.

Are you stilling avoiding the question?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Maybe Trump can start with his mother, or his wife -- or wait, they're white, aren't they? More and more racist every day, and the supporters don't even try to hide it anymore because they are every bit as much the same.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

A country now slowly where you have Democrats trying to usurp the entire political process and turn it into a socialist nightmare.

says a POTUS that continually tries to navigate around the house/congress and the entire democratic process. Seems like Trump is envious of his comrade Putin

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Dango Bango

foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden?

Wrong! Short-term foreigners are not allowed welfare benefits! Long-term and permanent residents are allowed welfare benefits!

At present, foreigners without permanent or long-term residency visas aren't allowed to apply for welfare payments because their immigration status only allows them to stay in Japan as long as they're employed.

Health insurance (Obamacare), unemployment insurance and pension are not welfare!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

bass4funk

Just because I pay into it, doesn’t mean I have to use it.

Maybe you haven't used the health service but it would be amazingly unusual that your kids have never been to a doctor? Children suffer from their own sickness. But then part of my taxes help to educate your kids. Or build roads so you can drive your car.

You should at least have a yearly health checkup so all your details are available in Japanese in case you should need emergency treatment.

What happens if you should be involved in a road accident?

Foreigners in Japan who have residence/visa and pay into the various schemes like health, welfare, pensions, unemployment also get to benefit from them. I get a pension because I paid in.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Are you willing to lose your legal status for using their NHI and unemployment insurance that you paid for?

That includes pension!

I answered, but for the record, I pay, “I” personally don’t use it, don’t need or want it and that includes the pension, I will give it away to charity when that time comes.

completely misleading headline. the law says immigrants should not be able to get welfare and should have jobs. that is how japan does it too. foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden? its completely logical and its how all other countries do it.

Yup, Exactly.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

bass4funk

I answered, but for the record, I pay, “I” personally don’t use it, don’t need or want it and that includes the pension, I will give it away to charity when that time comes.

You don't need to. If you don't apply you won't get it.

So your children have never needed healthcare? "I" means just you but not your kids and wife?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

completely misleading headline. the law says immigrants should not be able to get welfare and should have jobs. that is how japan does it too. foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden? its completely logical and its how all other countries do it.

> Yup, Exactly.

Once again, not true!

*At present, foreigners without permanent or long-term residency visas aren't allowed to apply for welfare payments because their immigration status only allows them to stay in Japan as long as they're employed.*

Longterm and permanent residents (legal immigrants) can apply for welfare benefits and not lose their legal status.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@smithinjapan

Maybe Trump can start with his mother, or his wife -- or wait, they're white, aren't they? More and more racist every day, and the supporters don't even try to hide it anymore because they are every bit as much the same.

You mean the First-Lady who worked in the US illegally and step-parents who arrived through chain migration?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The pension that those people paid into whilst they were serving our country?

Why does this matter?

what do you mean "why does it matter" if they were never intent on living in the country they naturalized in, then why bother serving that country? Why not just stay in their own country and serve their military? Isnt that what loyality is all about?? Thats like a lot of immigrants coming to the US, swearing in, then returning back to their country of origin. If its not your dream to be there, then why mislead us all with false intentions?

Your saying, in such sympathetic terms...oh they worked so hard and paid into a government pension. No, they got paid a salary on the tax payer, a cut of that went towards a pension, then can return back to their country of origin (are they still a citizen there?) and encourage others to do the same.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

@TheLongTermer

what do you mean "why does it matter" if they were never intent on living in the country they naturalized in, then why bother serving that country? Why not just stay in their own country and serve their military? Isnt that what loyality is all about?? Thats like a lot of immigrants coming to the US, swearing in, then returning back to their country of origin. If its not your dream to be there, then why mislead us all with false intentions?

Your saying, in such sympathetic terms...oh they worked so hard and paid into a government pension. No, they got paid a salary on the tax payer, a cut of that went towards a pension, then can return back to their country of origin (are they still a citizen there?) and encourage others to do the same.

I know military vets who was stationed overseas their whole career. Retired and stayed in the country that they were stationed and they don't want to and have no plans of going back to the US. These American citizens have spent the majority of their life in another country.

Once again, why does it matter? Both groups of people served the US proudly and met the terms of their contractual agreement! Are you saying legal immigrants don't deserve the pension that they earned. Are you willing to give up all of your Japanese pension after paying 25 years into the system because you are a legal immigrant?

The trumpsters don't support illegal immigrants, next is legal immigrants.....next is veterans?

Faulty logic!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

You don't need to. If you don't apply you won't get it

That's my point exactly.

Once again, not true!

No, very true. Most countries, not all, but most you cannot just waltz in an demand any type of entitlements especially if you are going to be a financial burden, if you are a proven refugee that’s a different story. Again, I don’t think it’s to much to ask for people to be self sufficient and not rely on the government to take care of them. You need to make your way and contribute to society and if you are poor and can’t contribute, you shouldn’t be here.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Just because I pay into it, doesn’t mean I have to use it.

This is an evolution from @I don't pay into it" because I get my other socialized health care at a non-existent base in Fukuoka.

Too funny!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I answered, but for the record, I pay, “I” personally don’t use it, don’t need or want it and that includes the pension, I will give it away to charity when that time comes.

It is easy to say if you are an expat working for a foreign company. Your contribution to the local economy would be minimal.

Let's ask the trumpsters living here with their families or single. Are you (legal immigrants) willing to lose your legal status in Japan for using the NHI, unemployment insurance, pension, or other benefits that you paid for?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

What he is proposing isn’t radically different to what a lot of other countries do around the world. However, it still raises the question of who is going to do the less glamorous work that Hispanic immigrant workers do?

Just like in Japan, there aren’t that many natives queuing up to gut chickens.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

No, very true. Most countries, not all, but most you cannot just waltz in an demand any type of entitlements especially if you are going to be a financial burden, if you are a proven refugee that’s a different story. 

Another strawman argument! The conversation compares Japan and the US, and the article is about legal immigrants in the US. All other countries are irrelevant. Faulty logic!

Japan actually allows welfare benefits to permanent residents and long term residents. You and Dango Bango are wrong because you agreed that Japan doesn't provide welfare benefits to any immigrants! It simply is not true!

Once again, you avoid the point that the Dump administration wants to penalize legal immigrants for using services that they directly pay for (Obamacare/NHI, pension, unemployment insurance).

And the trumpsters on this website support the idea, but they wouldn't support the rule if the same happened in Japan because it would affect them. Hypocrite much?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

It is easy to say if you are an expat working for a foreign company. Your contribution to the local economy would be minimal.

It is.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Another strawman argument! The conversation compares Japan and the US, and the article is about legal immigrants in the US. All other countries are irrelevant. Faulty logic!

I disagree.

Japan actually allows welfare benefits to permanent residents and long term residents.

But not to people that don’t have either of these visas, exactly my point.

Once again, you avoid the point that the Dump administration wants to penalize legal immigrants for using services that they directly pay for (Obamacare/NHI, pension, unemployment insurance).

No, it doesn’t apply to asylum and visa seekers, also Democrats in the past supported the same bill and now they don’t? Hmmmm.....

And the trumpsters on this website support the idea, but they wouldn't support the rule if the same happened in Japan because it would affect them. Hypocrite much?

Again, it depends.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

@bass

foreigners are not allowed to get welfare which is how it should be. why should foreigners go to another country and a burden? its completely logical and its how all other countries do it.

Yup, Exactly.*

Dango Bango said foreigners are not allowed welfare benefits and all countries do it. Not some but all foreigners, and you agreed!

But not to people that don’t have either of these visas, exactly my point.

Some is the not the same as all, so you are wrong!

Most countries, not all, but most you cannot just waltz in and demand any type of entitlements especially if you are going to be a financial burden, if you are a proven refugee that’s a different story. 

Once again, most countries are not the same as all countries. We are not even talking about most! We have been talking about the US and Japan, and you have been wrong about Japan!

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The trumpsters don't support illegal immigrants, next is legal immigrants.....next is veterans?

Faulty logic!

It was not my intent to become a US citizen, I was born as a citizen. An immigrant must change their status, and intend to become a citizen. Also, it wouldnt matter if Trump said veterans living overseas can no longer return to the US because the US supreme court has ruled that its almost impossible for my citizenship to be revoked unless I commit certain expatriating acts. This is in the constitution.

An immigrant who naturalizes, with no intent to live in the US....explain the logic? I did not naturalize, I was born a US citizen, and that will remain intact no matter where I live.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It's weird that the party of open borders is now trying to cut down on legitimate immigration.

So they want more illegals and less legals? Baffling.

The Republican party is an absolute mess.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It would reject applicants for temporary or permanent visas if they fail to meet high enough income standards or if they receive public assistance such as welfare, food stamps, public housing or Medicaid.

This is good news for the American taxpayer, people are migrating to America (and other western countries), just for the handouts - America has the right to reject anyone who will be a burden.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Dango Bango said foreigners are not allowed welfare benefits and all countries do it. Not some but all foreigners, and you agreed! 

Yes, but doesn’t mean you can’t game the system.

Some is the not the same as all, so you are wrong!

But I meant “some”, so I’m not wrong.

Once again, most countries are not the same as all countries.

My point exactly!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

So let me ask you a serious question, what and how can poor people contribute to a vibrant economy?

Marie Antoinette knows. Oh, sorry - you're being serious. Foolish me, I was also going to say something about Swift.

Where to start? Let's say we focus on Juan and Aoife. We make the trek to a new home and we put down roots, we get involved with the communities, we start off working in jobs that are beneath the elite, and we get enough together to maybe get a new house. That's helping the economy, right there. Maybe our business becomes bigger and we employ people, creating more jobs and money. We get our supplies in, maybe with local businesses. The money is now moving and the area might be picking up.

It may be difficult but what with the capitalism angle, we must try (or at least until a better system has been implemented) as hard as we can. Maybe we'll be able to afford kids one day, and they do well at school, maybe they can take over the business - or start their own.

All people are worthy. It's time the rich and entitled recognise this.

Otherwise, this is stage 2 of a sickening trend which will end up with very unpleasant consequences.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Dango Bango said foreigners are not allowed welfare benefits and all countries do it. Not some but all foreigners, and you agreed! 

That is not 100% correct. For instance, people in Japan who are accepted for asylum application can claim welfare support if needed.

None Japanese but with visa/residence can also claim welfare if they need it.

In the UK EU people can claim welfare.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

All people are worthy. It's time the rich and entitled recognise this. 

Otherwise, this is stage 2 of a sickening trend which will end up with very unpleasant consequences.

Of course all people are worthy, but the reality is, if you want to be successful, government is never the answer. Hard work and lots of connections and networking will determine your overall success in life.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

But but but....Trump only wants to stop the illegal immigrants. The GOP supports legal immigration

Or so I've been told.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@TheLongTermer

> An immigrant who naturalizes, with no intent to live in the US....explain the logic? I did not naturalize, I was born a US citizen, and that will remain intact no matter where I live

Simple! They earned it by putting their life on the line for the US, and they want options in life.

How many people like yourself on here, arguing against legal immigrants done the same? These legal immigrants can send their children to school, visit whenever they want, or start an import/export business. What if they need medical treatment someday and need to return to the US for a VA medical visit. They can do whatever they want!

Why do Japanese people who have one American parent keep their American and Japanese passports after turning 20 even though it is illegal, and they plan on living in Japan the rest of their life?

I have Japanese friends who stayed only a short time in the US, but still go back to renew their drivers license. They have no intention of living there anymore, and can get a international drivers license quite easy.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

By the way, everybody might have missed this other example of recent racism by the Moron and Chief

Trump Does Racist Japanese And Korean Accents For Guests At Fundraiser

https://www.politicususa.com/2019/08/10/trump-racist-japanese-impression.html

Trump kept returning to hit back at the “fake news” media attacks on him, saying of claims from the Democrats that he is a racist, “That is the only ammunition they have.”

Trump also made fun of US allies South Korea, Japan and the European Union — mimicking Japanese and Korean accents — and talked about his love of dictators Kim Jong Un and the current ruler of Saudi Arabia.

The fundraiser wasn’t Trump’s first racist fake accent rodeo as president. Trump also did a racist impression of Chinese people while speaking to the nation’s governors in February.

Dump projects everything that he is!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The “war on poverty” with a slight misunderstanding...?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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