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13 Russians, 3 companies indicted for interfering in U.S. elections

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What a nothing burger of an investigation Mueller is conducting. Only two guilty pleas and 16 indictments handed down. And Gates appears to be on the cusp of cooperation.

This investigation should have been shut down after two months bevause it clearly is not doling out any justice.

-6 ( +13 / -19 )

"I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people."

The troll farm employees understood the mentality of Americans they targeted, that they were so anti-American they were wiling to believe anything that confirmed their bias. 'Hillary's gonna start WW3 with a no-fly zone'.

The Russians attacked the US free, for-profit press, the US intelligence agencies, the balance of powers hoping to give the executive dictatorial powers.

But then Trump uses his base similarly, knowing they will support his own anti-American rants so he could be kleptocrat-in-chief and have easier access to US properties.

It's pretty easy to see why the Russians also targeted the NRA and its fellow anti-Americans; they both want to see the US torn even further apart.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

Late in the 2016 election, the Obama Administration met with McConnell to inform him and others in Congress of Russian interference, and asked for an OK to make a public warning announcement. McConnell responded with a denial that there is any proof of Russian interference, and said he would oppose any announcement as political interference by Obama in the election. He needs to be held accountable.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Who needs a million man Red Army when all it takes is 13 Russians with a computer to take over the US.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Who needs a million man Red Army when all it takes is 13 Russians with a computer to take over the US.

13 Russians and 62.9 million extremely ignorant/naive Trump voters.

11 ( +20 / -9 )

Perhaps one of our Texans (some of whom might even be Americans) can explain this from Fox 'news' about their neighbors and fellow Texans. After all the 'eyes of Texas are upon you' - and it looks like Russian eyes were, too:

Prosecutors accuse the Russians of communicating with a real U.S. person affiliated with a Texas-based grassroots organization. They learned from that person to focus their activities on “purple states like Colorado, Virginia and Florida," the indictment says.

It also says the group’s employees – referred to as “specialists” – created social media accounts to look like they were operated by Americans. They created group pages on Facebook and Instagram with names like “Secured Borders,” “Blacktivist” (to promote the Black Lives Matter movement), “United Muslims of America,” “Army of Jesus,” “South United” and “Heart of Texas.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

PTown: God bless Texas. Don't mess with Texas. Etcetera.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

13 Russians and 62.9 million extremely ignorant/naive Trump voters.

The Russian word for that is leverage, it's much cheaper than rolling thousands of tanks across the border.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The Russian word for that is leverage, it's much cheaper than rolling thousands of tanks across the border.

Agreed. I thought leverage was an English word. Did you mean the Russian word for that is левередж?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Burning Bush: Who needs a million man Red Army when all it takes is 13 Russians with a computer to take over the US.

Burning Bush... so true. A sad indictment of the current state of U.S. politics. In days like these, we can only rely on the integrity of the gatekeepers enforcing the law and ignoring political/media interference. We need people like Mr. Mueller to ignore fake denials by politicians and get to the bottom of this thing, because, as you so rightly point out, in this day and age, a small number of people armed with "computers" can have devastating effects on a misinformed public.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Meija: Spot on.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The more Americans attack each other the easier it is for foreign interests to exploit the divide and manipulate them.

Who's the cause of the all this.

It's you, the person posting negative comments about your fellow Americans.

Unite and stand up for yourselves instead of fighting amongst yourselves.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Unite and stand up for yourselves instead of fighting amongst yourselves

That's not very easy to do in a democracy.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Burning Bush: The more Americans attack each other the easier it is for foreign interests to exploit the divide and manipulate them. Who's the cause of the all this. It's you, the person posting negative comments about your fellow Americans.

Yes, again, so true. And as has been clear by your past attacking posts on anything you disagree with, I look forward to more balanced positive comments in the future. I agree with you that endless negativity and political attacks lead to a downward spiral. I hope you don't mind if I save this comment by you to remind you of this in the future, and you are free to also remind me of mine here. Maybe, perhaps, we few people with computers can actually make a difference...

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It's you, the person posting negative comments about your fellow Americans.

Which we have the right to do. We're not Russians. I actually have no problems with Russian individuals posting anti-American messages, but I do have problems with those who are paid by their state to post messages further stoking our too well stoked and long burning fires.

All sides (of course the US and even Canada and New Zealand, too) do this and have throughout history.

I have to tip my hat to the Russians for understanding how 'impressionable' many of my fellow US citizens are. The groups targeted, like the NRA and white nationalists, really were well chosen. Look how often posters on this site have parroted the Russian messages.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

13 Russians and 62.9 million extremely ignorant/naive Trump voters

Ahhhh, No...the 62.9 million alert Americans don’t believe Trump was knee deep involved in conspiring with the Russians.

McConnell responded with a denial that there is any proof of Russian interference, and said he would oppose any announcement as political interference by Obama in the election. He needs to be held accountable.

So what should happen? He should be flogged?

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

"alert Americans"

Alert to what? Clearly not alert to the potential of foreign interference...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@bas4 don’t believe Trump was knee deep involved in conspiring with the Russians.

So you're admitting he was involved, but only to mid-calf?

So what should happen?

McConnell should admit he was complicit in allowing 'foreign' involvement in US elections and be forced to explain his reasons. And his campaign contributions, for example from big pharma, big insurance, big energy, the NRA, etc. should be looked at closely.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's you, the person posting negative comments about your fellow Americans.

Is fact-checking being negative?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

bass4funk: "McConnell responded with a denial that there is any proof of Russian interference, and said he would oppose any announcement as political interference by Obama in the election. He needs to be held accountable." - So what should happen? He should be flogged?

I kind of agree with bass on this one. The Russian interference investigation is still ongoing. If, in the end, the investigation does prove Russian interference in the election, then McConnell will need to be held accountable for his actions. Politicians often push issues away as a distraction with the aim that by the time they return, the public will have moved on. If this investigation does show that McConnell was in the wrong, then he should not be "flogged", but he should take responsibility for actions and act accordingly, which would probably be to step down from his current leadership role if his leadership has been proven to be poor.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's a mind game. The only solid ground here is someone actually tampering with voter's count numbers. By into this and your buying into propaganda and mindless pursuit. Spend some money on the homeless, Mr. Washington man.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So, this sounds like people posting things on social media, etc. The U.S. has engaged in this type of activity (and much worse) and continues to engage in this activity globally.

In the old days it was with the shortwave radio (perhaps some posting here are too young to have heard these broadcasts). We had Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, even the VOA (Voice of America). Now the U.S. engages in this activity using the internet and other more modern mechanisms.

I am a liberal (classical liberal - not progressive) American and I detest Trump on several levels however what I see here seems to be inconsequential (caveat: if more comes out I will change my opinion). Right now...so what? The Russians engaged in what the U.S. (and other countries) have been doing for decades - or centuries. Just look at what the U.S. did in South and Central America.....what the U.S. did resulted in assassination, death, and the overthrow of governments.

What happened here appears to be someone spent money to post a bunch of things on the internet, some American people may have been swayed by such postings and voted accordingly.

The hypocrisy of my nation of citizenship and birth is stunning.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

OK Donald so now the question is WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? Take yet another knee?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

What a joke.

Its no secret how AIPAC influences elections in the US. Funny how this all started in mid 2014, gee right after the Kiev coup.

And how is this ANY less serious than what Hillary did to the Sanders campaign?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

It's truly astonishing that the President of the US may well be a traitor and the agent of a foreign power who gained the presidency by illegal means. Astonishing.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Tokyo-Engr - some great points.

"In the old days it was with the shortwave radio" - true, but in those days, you knew what you were getting when you listened in. The problem today is that people don't know who they are listening to. It's fine knowing that you're listening to "Radio Free Europe" and knowing where they're coming from, but when you're reading posts from a supposed local "partiot" group and they are far from local and far from patriots, then you're being led so far up the garden path that you're more likely to find Livingston than the truth.

As for the U.S. actions in Central America, totally agree. There is no excuse for that, and an argument can be mounted that the Russian interference was only online, and therefore less offensive. It doesn't take away from the fact that there was a deliberate attempt from a foreign power to influence the U.S. election.

And yes, "the hypocrisy of my nation of citizenship and birth is stunning". I don't think anyone can argue against that. A sad thought to end on. :(

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@meija - you make some good points...and yeah...the end of my post is sad but unfortunately I believe it is true.

After having read some of the allegations against the Russians it appears were they were posting as members of Patriot Groups, Black Lives Matter, and people of all political positions. To me it appears they were attempting to further divide the already greatly divided populace. I guess we need to wait to hear more.

You made this point, "It doesn't take away from the fact that there was a deliberate attempt from a foreign power to influence the U.S. election.."

I can see and I do understand your point but a few questions (and I think the unintended consequences to the answers to a few of these questions should be considered...especially for folks like us that are expatriated Americans)

What does the U.S. do about this specific incident? Does the U.S. find and arrest the people involved? There will likely be some very clear cut cases where people are guilty and there may be innocent people caught up in this as well (i.e. some financed the operation - maybe some just posted their point of view).

What does the U.S. do about this going forward? Is censorship of the internet needed to prevent future occurrences?

And finally (a question I have always had). What does Russia have to gain with Trump in office and what has Russia gained since Trump's election? The only thing I can see is Ms. Clinton's alleged ties to the Ukraine.

Wonder where it will go next?!?!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

No...the 62.9 million alert Americans don’t believe Trump

So alert that they voted in an obviously incompetent individual. None of Trump's current abhorrent behavior or incompetence was a secret during the campaign or election.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Well done Mueller! Another treasonous plot uncovered and justice meted out. The other perps are probably making arrangements to flee the country about now

5 ( +5 / -0 )

"Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

Yes, because two years of groundwork definitely wouldn't lead to results.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So alert that they voted in an obviously incompetent individual. 

hey, they could have voted for the pantsuits lady, but didn't. Dodged that disastrous bullet.

None of Trump's current abhorrent behavior or incompetence was a secret during the campaign or election.

Go Trump!

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

None of Trump's current abhorrent behavior or incompetence was a secret during the campaign or election.

Go Trump!

Go abhorrent behavior and utter incompetence!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

“There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election,” Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the special counsel probe, said at a Friday press conference.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Tokyo-Engr, again, excellent comments.

1) When talking about issues at national level, individual prosecutions mean little. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I guess this just re-enforces the whole complexity of the issue.

2) I personally don't think censorship is the solution, except in extreme cases. Education is the only real solution, but that is so hard when the media are in the best position to educate, but are so partisan.

3) I don't and never have thought that the Russian agenda was for a Trump presidency, that's why I've always tried to focus on the Russian interference rather than arguments of collusion. I, personally, think that Russia sees an advantage in destabilising the U.S's faith in democracy. As long as the U.S. is inwardly focused, then they aren't looking at what's happening on the global stage. They aren't interested in sanctions against Russia or interfering in Russian global activities such as the Ukraine or Syria.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

bass4funk: "hey, they could have voted for the pantsuits lady, but didn't. Dodged that disastrous bullet."

Agreeing with bass 2 times within an hour... I must be ill... I agree that the U.S. "dodged a bullet" by not electing "pantsuits lady". They instead elected a "landmine" in Trump. It was an election that was always going to elect a dud. That's what you get with 2 dud candidates...

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Using these fraudulent social media fronts, the Russians “posted derogatory information about a number of candidates,” the indictment said. Their operations allegedly included denigrating candidates such as Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, while supporting Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, and Donald Trump.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"Hey, they could have voted for the pantsuits lady, but didn't. "

Actually, they did. She got more votes than he did. The people chose Hillary. The system chose Trump.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The reptiles party and the president denied there was nothing in this story and the investigation was a waste of time and wouldn't find anything, probably Trump would have fired Mueller except it would have been an obstruction of justice.

The cat is out of the bag, and only the tip of the iceberg forcing Trump to run around the WH rose garden screaming, "It wasn't me! It wasn't me!"

Well maybe it wasn't but now egg on his face.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Using these fraudulent social media fronts, the Russians “posted derogatory information about a number of candidates,” the indictment said. Their operations allegedly included denigrating candidates such as Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, while supporting Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein, and Donald Trump.

And?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The reptiles party and the president denied there was nothing in this story and the investigation was a waste of time and wouldn't find anything, probably Trump would have fired Mueller except it would have been an obstruction of justice.

We just don't know, Trump didn't fire Mueller and even if he did, he has the constitutional authority to do so, even if that wouldn't be a wise decision.

The cat is out of the bag, and only the tip of the iceberg forcing Trump to run around the WH rose garden screaming, "It wasn't me! It wasn't me!"

That's a good thing.

Well maybe it wasn't but now egg on his face.

What? No, it means this farce of an investigation can now wrap up, they already have enough and mounting problems. Doesn't take the spotlight off of Strzok, Page, Orr and McCabe.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Doesn't take the spotlight off of Strzok

You mean the guy who wrote the letter to congress just days before the election saying Clinton’s emails were under investigation? The letter that possible cost Clinton the election (or at least didn’t help her)? That guy?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

bass4funk

What? No, it means this farce of an investigation can now wrap up, they already have enough and mounting problems. Doesn't take the spotlight off of Strzok, Page, Orr and McCabe.

Still trying to dismiss "this farce of an investigation" even when today major facts have been released and more to come. Anyone would think you are actually an agent of the Russians.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

this farce of an investigation

For a farce there sure are a lot of indictments.

However,

Fake news! Didn’t happen!

And so what if it did?

And what about Hillary and the deep state alt-left?

/s

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"We just don't know, Trump didn't fire Mueller and even if he did, he has the constitutional authority to do so, even if that wouldn't be a wise decision."

For the 3rd time this thread, I was about to totally agree with bass... but then...

"What? No, it means this farce of an investigation can now wrap up"

Any investigation that shows clear foreign interference in a U.S. election is not a "farce of an investigation". The only people who are describing it in those words are those trying to discredit the investigation as a witch-hunt against Donald Trump and are not actually interesting in preserving the integrity of U.S. elections.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It’s a farce. Let’s indict a bunch of Internet foreigner people we will never prosecute. How can anyone actively choose to collude with “ Russians” if it was made clear these people posed as Americans?

on the same day the FBI is under fire for doing nothing to stop a school killer no less.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Still trying to dismiss "this farce of an investigation"

Yes

even when today major facts have been released and more to come.

We just don't know yet.

Anyone would think you are actually an agent of the Russians.

Right back at you.

You mean the guy who wrote the letter to congress just days before the election saying Clinton’s emails were under investigation?

And turning it over to McCabe who sat on it for 3 weeks and did nothing.

The letter that possible cost Clinton the election (or at least didn’t help her)? That guy?

The one that had an insurance policy and he and his goomah saying that the POTUS wants to know everything and now bringing in the puppet master, the anointed one himself, you just can't make this stuff up.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

A federal grand jury charged that they:

-posed as both real and nonexistent Americans to operate social media pages and groups supporting Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders

-worked to undermine support for Hillary Clinton and at leas two of Trump's Republican rivals

-conducted 'information warfare' by stealing identities and buying ads on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and Twitter

-created niche groups on Facebook to attract hundreds of thousands of Muslims, evangelical Christians, people associated with Black Lives Matter, and Americans from specific regions of the country

-organized real-life political rallies to support Trump and oppose Clinton

-created Twitter accounts with names meant to appear linked to the Republican Party (one had more than 100,000 followers)

-used foreign bank accounts to route more than $1.25 million per month to the project from companies owned by a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin

-never reported the spending to the Federal Election Commission as campaign expenses

-never registered as foreign agents with the Justice Department

-bought space on computer servers based in America so all their Internet traffic would appear to be domestic

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Blacklabel: It’s a farce. Let’s indict a bunch of Internet foreigner people we will never prosecute. How can anyone actively choose to collude with “ Russians” if it was made clear these people posed as Americans?

Ummm... just want to add some logic here... no one made it clear that these people were "Russians" until it was investigated. If the investigation was "a farce", then we wouldn't know they were Russians posing as Americans. By your logic, people needed to know in advance that they were colluding with foreigners pretending to be Americans that we didn't know were not American until the investigation that is a farce and shouldn't have been investigated... yep... you said that.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A federal grand jury charged that they:

And only the most anti-American of Americans would call Mueller's activities a 'farce' and their findings a 'nothing burger'.

It's worrying that the investigations are happening, that allegations of meddling and collusion have been made and that they're taking so much time, but if they result in shedding light that within the country and without there have been individuals and groups trying to further undermine the US's shaky democracy, then it's time and money well spent.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Only agents and supporters of the Russians and their illegal activities on American soil would continue to call the investigation a farce even in the face of the Federal Grand Jury indictment.

Even Trump would call that un-American!

The deniers should now return to Russia.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So what do conservatives/Republicans/Trump fans think we should do in response to Russia meddling in our elections?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

And only the most anti-American of Americans would call Mueller's activities a 'farce' and their findings a 'nothing burger'. 

We can say only the most anti-American of Americans the very disturbing behavior of the top officials of the FBI and DOJ as business as usual or even going so far as dismissing it.

It's worrying that the investigations are happening, that allegations of meddling and collusion have been made and that they're taking so much time,

Yes, because they could have foiled the massacre that happened a few days ago.

but if they result in shedding light that within the country and without there have been individuals and groups trying to further undermine the US's shaky democracy, then it's time and money well spent.

So you're saying, the FBI can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That's very scary.

Only agents and supporters of the Russians and their illegal activities on American soil would continue to call the investigation a farce even in the face of the Federal Grand Jury indictment.

Only agents and supporters of the Russians that would give the FBI a pass on dismissing FBI rogue agents of conspiring to taking down a US President on US soil as nothing and trying to stop an investigation into it as a dud or nothing burger. Very disturbing.

 

Even Trump would call that un-American!

The deniers should now return to Russia.

 I agree.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Typical Trump Twitter reaction, "deny! deny! deny!" and "the people voted for me and I won the election".

More serious information to be released and more indictments to come. Was anyone in the Trump campaign involved or knew about the Russians?

The peeling of this onion has only just began.

So what do conservatives/Republicans/Trump fans think we should do in response to Russia meddling in our elections?

That's an easy one. Travel Ban!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

What should we do? Stop chasing this trump collusion nonsense and do something about what actually been happening since 2014.

and obama owes Romney an apology.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@comradebas4 So you're saying, the FBI can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That's very scary.

Thank you for reposting my message. Bit of advice: by only providing deflections and changing the subject you make the positions presented in any post you respond to seem stronger.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Then we move on?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bass4funk "We can say only the most anti-American of Americans the very disturbing behavior of the top officials of the FBI and DOJ as business as usual or even going so far as dismissing it."

Yes, how DARE the FBI and DOJ investigate even the potential of foreign interference in an election. Clearly that is treason... So un-American.

"So you're saying, the FBI can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That's very scary."

... that makes absolutely no sense at all. By shedding light on foreign interference... what on earth does that have to do with walking and gum. Clear logic fail.

"Only agents and supporters of the Russians that would give the FBI a pass on dismissing FBI rogue agents of conspiring to taking down a US President on US soil as nothing and trying to stop an investigation into it as a dud or nothing burger. Very disturbing."

So... you clearly see this investigation as nothing than a conspiracy to "take down a US President". Did you even read the findings? There was nothing against the president, so if it's a conspiracy, it's a terrible one. You are arguing against an investigation of the US election process on the basis of a conspiracy against a candidate who was elected when no findings have been found against said candidate and no attempt has been made to undermine his election. What has been found, though, is foreign individuals actively working to influence the result of the election, and yet you describe any attempt to investigate this as anti-American. No. Not now, not ever. In a democracy, we investigate, check, adjust as a result and use this process to stay strong. Your logic, your process is flawed.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yeah then we close Mueller down and move on. His indictment today clearly identifies who is to blame for the election interference and it’s not Trump.

The DOJ can take care of any leftover FBI, DOJ and Hillary related crimes that are found.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The New Yorker

The President of the United States wakes each day, it seems, to another nightmarish crisis and addresses it as if in a state of frenzied denial. When faced with the hideous reality of yet another gun massacre, this time in Parkland, Florida, he dares not mention guns. (The N.R.A., which spent thirty-one million dollars to help get him elected, would not approve.) When faced with the testimonies of two women accusing his aide Rob Porter of beating them, he applauds the man’s fine work, wishes him a great career, and, only after days of delay, woodenly declares himself “totally opposed” to domestic violence.

For well over a year, Donald Trump has dodged the subject of Russian interference in the 2016 election and potential charges of collusion and obstruction of justice. It’s all “phony,” a “hoax,” “fake news,” a “witch hunt.”

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Blacklabel: Yeah then we close Mueller down and move on. His indictment today clearly identifies who is to blame for the election interference and it’s not Trump.  The DOJ can take care of any leftover FBI, DOJ and Hillary related crimes that are found.

Cool. Then I guess the matter would be closed with nothing else to do.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The 37 page indictment

https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download

No43.... They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Stop chasing this Trump collusion nonsense

Mueller seems to be a very thorough, methodical operator. I’m sure his findings on this will be released in good time. Don’t be so impatient. You must agree that you shouldn’t half-bake this.

The whole Russian interference thing is a hoax according to Trump. You have nothing to worry about.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

another astonishing defeat for the lunatic left.

Another inevitable win for President Trump

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

clamenza, lol. Funniest thing I've read today! Great political satire!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"alert Americans"

Alert to what? Clearly not alert to the potential of foreign interference...

kinda like George Soros and the EU buying off British politicians to try and reverse Brexit?

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

another astonishing defeat for the lunatic left. Another inevitable win for President Trump

How so? When even Trump had dismissed it all as fake news and something which never happened. We are only at the first layer of peeling the onion and you are already crying. Trump might not have been involved directly but can the same be said about all of his team and campaign staff. So many already thrown to the wolves and much more to come. Stay tuned.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

13 Russians and 62.9 million extremely ignorant/naive Trump voters.

13 Russians and and the most brainwashed left wing media core in the history of the U.S.A.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

clamenza: "alert Americans" - kinda like George Soros and the EU buying off British politicians to try and reverse Brexit?

If that's what floats your boat. Both clear examples of not being at all "alert"... So, your point was...?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

otherworldly... good thing these investigations aren't based on the media, otherwise you may have actually made a relevant point!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So many already thrown to the wolves and much more to come. Stay tuned.

That’s the point. Terribly impatient people here.

I think it could be related to how Trump operates. Trump supporters are used to idiotic, half-baked tweets thrown out on the spur of the moment with little or no grasp of the facts.

Mueller doesn’t act like that. He shouldn’t act like that. In fact, nobody should act like that.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

zichi - A federal grand jury charged that they:

What they did not find is that Trump "colluded" with the Russians. Which is what the Hillary-worshippers have been blaming Trump for, from the beginning. The Russians have been having a great time spinning, twisting, playing with, and screwing up American elections. And the haters STILL can't see that they've been duped by Russian scam artists. The Russians have been pitting both political parties, and their supporters, against each other. Plus, the Russians have had help from emotional internet posts such as these:

The cat is out of the bag, and only the tip of the iceberg forcing Trump to run around the WH rose garden screaming, "It wasn't me! It wasn't me!"

Well maybe it wasn't but now egg on his face.

It's pretty easy to see why the Russians also targeted the NRA and its fellow anti-Americans; they both want to see the US torn even further apart.

It's truly astonishing that the President of the US may well be a traitor and the agent of a foreign power who gained the presidency by illegal means. Astonishing.

It obviously doesn't matter to some people if Trump was involved (aka Well maybe it wasn't him, but blah, blah, blah) or not. They don't like Trump, and would blame him for the Lindbergh baby kidnapping if they had thought of it. The Russians are winning.

Maybe if the U.S. news media hadn't been so preoccupied creating their own biased/political news stories, they might have used their powers for good, instead of ignoring evil?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

meija - good thing these investigations aren't based on the media, otherwise you may have actually made a relevant point!

It seems that the lame stream media has been much too busy creating biased news stories and playing politics, instead of reporting the actual facts, and letting the voters decide what the voters want to do. The lame stream media outlets have been much to busy repeating what the Russian operatives have been feeding them.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Trump caused a stir during his trip to Asia when he suggested that he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin's denials that his government meddled in the election. Trump and Putin met several times on the sidelines of the APEC summit in Vietnam. "Every time he sees me, he says, 'I didn't do that,'" Trump said. "And I believe, I really believe, that when he tells me that, he means it."

arrestpaul

*zichi - *A federal grand jury charged that they: 

What they did not find is that Trump "colluded" with the Russians. Which is what the Hillary-worshippers have been blaming Trump for, from the beginning.

I never said he did but Trump alway denied the Russian story as I've pointed out here. But can the same be said about all of his staff and family members? Many more onion layers to peel away. And please I don't have the American vote and if I had it would not have gone to Clinton.

duped by Russian scam artists. 

And scam-artist-in-chief-Putin

5 ( +6 / -1 )

arrestpaul... you may be right. You may be wrong. Your comment is irrelevant to the issue as the investigation wasn't based on media reports.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

How many tens of millions of dollars do groups like AIPAC and unregistered Israeli lobbiests and officials spend trying to influence American politics? How many millions does America itself spend through black budgets to influence elections in other countres? How are facebook posts worse than arming rebel groups in places like Libya and Syrian in an effort to directly influence the politics of other countries?

The point of the special counsel was to indict Americans colluding with foreign powers, not to restate the obvious fact that foreign powers are interested in influencing the politics of the world's biggest superpower. Unless American citizens in the Trump campaign are indicted for collusion, this is a 'nothing burger'. The people named in these indictments will never be brought before any American court. Sorry if this triggers a few people in the thread.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

We should also be clear that the indictments have nothing to do with Russian hacking the Dems and slow release of information through Wikileaks, or pro-Russia changes to Trumps platform, Trump campaign meeting with Russians for the purpose of securing that information.

The indictments are also unrelated to the ubstruction investigation.

Mueller’s investigation has proven highly effective and the noose is getting tighter around Trump’s neck.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

M3M3M3, I agree with you 90%. I disagree with your comment that "the point of the special counsel was to indict Americans colluding with foreign powers". It was also to investigate how foreign powers attempted to influence the 2016 U.S. election. To not investigate that is to just shrug your shoulders and say, mehh... On that basis alone, your "nothing burger" becomes a "something burger", because it can allow U.S. officials to adjust the way elections are run so that the will of the American people is respected and is protected against foreign influence. If you think that this is a "nothing burger" issue, then that's fine, that's your opinion. Personally, as someone who respects democracy, I disagree.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

puppet master,

George Soros

lame stream media

soy

Those of us who’ve worked internationally know full well how many variants of English (sorry RP speakers) there are. Reading JT posts I sometimes get confused what people, especially when they’re angry, are trying to say. I’ve found this glossary helps.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alt-right_glossary

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"A Russian Internet agency oversaw a criminal and espionage conspiracy to tamper in the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign to support Donald Trump"

Oh my...

 Examining key points from Russian indictments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kBdy04aOmc

TRUMP BLASTS MUELLER FOR NO COLLUSION ADMISSION IN RUSSIAN INDICTMENTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zctLxOE9w4

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@M3. Agree totally. In a democracy everybody has a right to have their say. The only issue is stealing and selling ids, which is a police matter, nothing to do political messages.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

So what, now I have to wait until Friday before another 3 day weekend to see another indictment of people or things unrelated to Trump? Yet it’s still the “trump investigation”?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Black:

There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. 

"In this indictment." There is an enormous additional shoe about to drop.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Mueller has got a few more tricks up his sleave to come yet...stay tuned..

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Just ran out of time with his staff of 18 lawyers to type up the other part of the indictment that ties this all directly to Trump?. Got it. Guess we can see that Memorial Day weekend or the 4th of July?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

This guy just has deep state written all over him.

On May 16, 2017, Mueller interviewed with President Trump to again serve as the Director of the FBI. Trump did not hire Mueller and immediately provided feedback he wanted to go a new direction, someone who hadn’t been in the position before.[44] The very next day, on May 17, 2017, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller to serve as special counsel for the United States Department of Justice. In this capacity, Mueller oversees the investigation into “any links and/or coordination between Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump, and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".[45]

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

"Mueller has got a few more tricks up his sleave to come yet."

Yeah, but he can't play 4-D chess like Trump can.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Oh my Trump can play 4d chess you got a youtube link for that one...maybe a shirtless one my wife needs a laugh..

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@fizzThis guy just has deep state written all over him.

Translation below:

The deep state is a conspiracy theory that there are a body of people who are secretly manipulating or controlling US government policy, and the President must serve their interests or else risk assassination.[33] It serves as a convenient excuse for the alt-right as to why Trump can't get anything done (e.g. It doesn't matter, the deep state are stopping him at all costs and he needs to make sure they don't take him out!).[34] Like many alt-right expressions, the term can be used as covert anti-Semitism.[35]

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@meija & @Goodlucktoyou

Yeah, I can see your point. The allegations in the indictment are obviously criminal according to current US law, no doubt about that. But when you read the indictment (which I have) the question you're left asking yourself is whether these American laws are incredibly ridiculous and unfit for purpose in the 21st century information age. The core crime being alleged is that these Russians expended time and money to post political messages through Facebook (which just happens to be based in the US) without registering with US election authorities and following US election laws. The idea being that if your paid messages are stored on a US server, you are considered to be physically in the US for legal purposes and thus subject to American election law. If the Russians had used a different social network which had no servers or physical presence in the US, no crime would have been committed.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This is all Wiki has to say about this.

 On February 16, 2018, Mueller indicted 13 Russian individuals and 3 Russian companies for attempting to trick Americans into consuming Russian propaganda that targeted Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. [63]

But I thought this whole Russiain trolls fake news targeted Black Lives Matter? Now im confused.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The indictments state that Russians reached out to “unwitting” people associated with the Trump campaign. Wouldn't that be redundant?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

We're getting closer, folks

to the end of 2 wildly successful terms in office?

Dont Be so negative! Another popular Republican will emerge well before 2024

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Northernlife - I remember last time you started slinging off personal assults you came out looking like an absolute douchebag.

Your personal attacks are both unwarranted, and unwelcome.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Alert to what? Clearly not alert to the potential of foreign interference...

The Obama administration clearly wasn’t alert - this all happened under his watch. He never took the Russians seriously as evidenced by his failed reset charm offensive and his mocking Romney when he warned about the strategic threat Russia posed to the US.

Mueller has still not presented any evidence of collusion with Russia on the part of any American. Which of course is a joke given all we know about Hillary’s payments to a former foreign intelligence operative to gather kompromat from Russian spy’s. So far Muellers investigation has been a case of the gang that can’t shoot straight. He has a team of lawyers straight from Hillary’s Rolodex so he is blind to half of the Russian interference scandal.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

"Mueller has got a few more tricks up his sleave to come yet."

Yeah, but he can't play 4-D chess like Trump can.

Why would Trump need to play 4-D chess with Mueller?

The whole Russia thing is a hoax according to Trump. He could just sit down with Mueller and tell the truth. He should do this.

No need for a battle of wits.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Laguna - "In this indictment." There is an enormous additional shoe about to drop.

Because you want it to, or because you hope it will? You've just been handed an indictment that says the Russians have been feeding false, and misleading stories, to the news media (who couldn't be bothered to verify their sources), and to the internet (which is notorious for not requiring verified facts). Perhaps some of your feelings are based on false and misleading stories? This seems like a good time for everyone to re-evaluate what they think they thought to be true.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

"Oh my Trump can play 4d chess you got a youtube link for that one"

Oh my...

Ingraham: New Russia indictments have White House cheering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMuWpXzNqTc

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

But let’s remember that “there’s no collusion, that I can tell you, believe me, absolutely no collusion, none whatsoever “

3 ( +4 / -1 )

arrestpaul, I'm just reading the tea leaves like everyone else.

There are three areas Mueller seems to be investigating:

Russia engaging in social-media activism with stolen identities to help elect Trump (or otherwise influence elections);

Russia hacking electronic databases to steal and subsequently distributing the stolen contents (vectors are important here);

Active collaboration or ignoring affirmative obligation (that is, when you are aware a crime is being committed but fail to report it).

Likely, various threads from each of the three areas are entangled and Mueller is releasing indictments based both on the progress of his investigations and on political considerations (the most recent certainly knocking air out of right-wing efforts to appear patriotic by opposing Mueller). Ultimately, the goal is to uncover fact. The phrasing of the recent indictments and their timing lead me to believe that they are a prelude. To what, we will see.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Laguna

Intent is key. Those who steal identities to upload cat photos have no need to worry. Those who do so for more nefarious purposes do.

Sure, and the stealing of US identities proves intent, but what is a 'more nefarious' purpose? Is it anything which violates US election law?

US election law (FECA 52 U.S. Code § 30121) states that it 'shall be unlawful for a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make: ... an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication'. At its heart, the indictment is saying that foreign Russian nationals posting messages on US-based Facebook is an independent expenditure and electioneering communication which violates US law.

There were countless posts on this US based site (Japantoday.com) by non-US citizens who were advocating for one candidate or the other in 2016. It's obvious that the US government does not have the resources to indict and prosecute them all, but do you acknowledge that they were also breaking the law by indirectly incurring expenditures to post electioneering communications on this site? Obviously everyone in the world has an opinion on US politics and they also have accounts on US based social media companies. All I'm saying is that having a law which criminalises hundreds of millions of ordinary non-US citizens just so that you can selectively apply this law only to Russian trolls strikes me as a bit draconian and ridiculous. Either make the law more precise or get rid of it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Personal attacks are trash. We’ll be sinking to the level of the president of the US and prefixing posters’ handles with idiotic nicknames next.

Discuss the issue.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Laguna - I'm just reading the tea leaves like everyone else.

Then you're admitting that you have no idea if there is an enormous additional shoe, or if that enormous additional shoe is going to drop. But based on your feelings, something bad must happen to Trump, or you'll feel like the investigation has been wasting your time?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

SerranoToday  01:14 pm JST

"Mueller has got a few more tricks up his sleave to come yet."

Yeah, but he can't play 4-D chess like Trump can.

Can you give us a detailed rundown of how he plays 4-D chess or are you just parroting something cool-sounding you read somewhere?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But based on your feelings, something bad must happen to Trump, or you'll feel like the investigation has been wasting your time?

Exactly. The Russian interference started in 2014, well before President Trump even announced his candidacy.

What the Russians wanted to do was sew confusion in the election which the dimwit Democrats helped do by pushing the now totally debunked Russian collusion lie.

But, yes. Lets all find a way to blame President Trump.

Because it feels good.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

At this point we could be shown an unedited video of trump and Russians, explicitly discussing a plan to undermine the 2016 election and trumpists would still be in denial, trump himself could admit there was collusion but his loyalists would blame the left.

What scandal will break in the next few days?!!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Bones - what an odd thing to say. It’s already been proven there was not only no collusion, but the Russian interference also included anti-Trump rallies in ny during the election process.

its sad to see people can’t let go of a lie they SO wanted to believe.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

US election law (FECA 52 U.S. Code § 30121) states that it '*shall be unlawful for a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make: ... an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication'*. 

Yeah, arrestpaul, I've got you there - and that's precisely why that California guy who was selling IDs so quickly flipped. His story is that he didn't know who he was selling those fake IDs to, but frankly, that doesn't matter. What does is that money changed hands - expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement. He'll get off, but he's probably provided all the info he's got on his side the story to Mueller. Another shoe.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I love the GOP predictable, default arguments: "Obama's fault". Earlier this week the sad excuse for a human being Janine Pirrero on FOX blamed OBama for Porter, as they like to blame all things, and now they are blaming him for this, and also blaming even Bill Clinton for this morning's revelation of yet another Trump love affair. Well, that, and calling it fake news of course.... or just saying, "Who cares?" after the first two excuses fall flat.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Hilarious all the liberals on CNN now saying this whole investigation was never intended to prove anything against Trump himself or anyone related to him.

This is just about proving Trump wrong when he says Russia didn’t try to interfere, they say. This new thing only proves some RussiaNS not Russia or Putin, btw.

so why would trump be impeached for something obama didn’t handle from 2014-2016! Or are liberals also saying they never wanted trump impeached too?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

How should Trump respond to Russia's meddling?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The only reason liberals ever even cared about this was to link it directly to trump to remove and jail him, no?

if you can’t prove he knew about this and asked for it, encouraged it, or paid for it can say is he benefitted from someone’s hatred of his opponent. How couid trump know, he wasn’t in charge of intelligence agencies or FBI who knew.

Obama also knew and could have put a stop to it. He also could have told Trump himself at any time but he hid that too. so actually Trump is the victim of all of this.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Mueller has indicted the guilty parties. I see no direct connection proven to the Russian government or Putin. So why would we sanction the whole country?

Did China sanction the US when those US basketball players got arrested for shoplifting?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Clemenza-

so why was he so eager to fire Comey?

why did he try to fire Mueller, why is he so desperate to stop the investigation if he has nothing to worry about?

oh, that’s right, he would never lie, he is an honest to god Christian who oozes in being a great American and holder of honor and integrity.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I see no direct connection proven to the Russian government or Putin. So why would we sanction the whole country?

OK then. No sanctions for election meddling.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I love the GOP predictable, default arguments: "Obama's fault". Earlier this week the sad excuse for a human being Janine Pirrero on FOX blamed OBama for Porter,

I think she’s right on that one.

as they like to blame all things, and now they are blaming him for this, and also blaming even Bill Clinton for this morning's revelation of yet another Trump love affair.

How so?

Well, that, and calling it fake news of course.... or just saying, "Who cares?" after the first two excuses fall flat.

They do?

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

why would we sanction an entire country for the actions of a few of its citizens?

Problem for liberals is that to protect a Clinton or Obama and his staff, you have had to say everything that used to be wrong or illegal is ok. So now you can’t get Trump on anything.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

so why was he so eager to fire Comey?

He did so on the advice of the AG after Comes had bungled the Clinton email investigation among other things. Trump had also been assured by Coney he was not under investigation on 3 separate occasions, so did so solely because the FBI needed new leadership.

why did he try to fire Mueller

He wasn't. And didn't. Mueller's investigation proved what everyone knew anyway. There was no collusion.

he is an honest to god Christian who oozes in being a great American and holder of honor and integrity.

I don't think its appropriate to mock President Trump's faith here. It has nothing to do w the story

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

clamenza,

I don't think its appropriate to mock President Trump's faith here

Trump's "faith" is most likely money - at least, that's all that has been evidenced. (Can you provide any examples otherwise?) Until Trump releases his financial info, I'll continue to believe my own eyes: that the dollar (or any other convertible currency) is the only god Trump worships.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

In a Tweet on Friday, Trump said: "Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!"

I actually believe Trump on this - I dint think that he was colluding on this specific anti-American campaign.

But we should remember that an anti-American campaign backed by a foreign power decided to support Trump's campaign as part of its strategy. Surely this makes some Trump supporters wonder whether they backed the right man.

If your enemies think that the best way to hurt America is to elect Trump, then it seems like a great reason to be fearful of Trump.

Trump's alarming willingness to support the Kremlin over the FBI has made me question his loyalties and whether they have done hold over him that we don't know about.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Trump's "faith" is most likely money - at least, that's all that has been evidenced.

Nonesense, we can’t look inside a persons heart, but why are the left obsessed with someone’s religious beliefs, usually they either make rude remarks or they look down on people that have a strong sense of faith.

(Can you provide any examples otherwise?) Until Trump releases his financial info, I'll continue to believe my own eyes: that the dollar (or any other convertible currency) is the only god Trump worships.

The left can believe whatever calms them at night, the tax issue will go forever unanswered and for you guys to dwell on it non-stop, you’re going to get a nervous breakdown. Be happy with the taxes that Maddow ran with. That should calm y’alls fears.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Editors and reporters/on-air talking heads within the alt-left MSM across America are crying their eyes out today. They thought for sure President Trump would be singled out as the lone orchestrator of stealing the presidency. Instead, not one of the indictments are linked to any American.

President Trump gave Mueller enough rope to hang himself; Mueller chose to instead commit political suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head–16 times.

Bravo, Pressident Trump. Well played, sir.

MAGA

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

why would we sanction an entire country for the actions of a few of its citizens?

How about a strongly worded Teeet instead? Or would that ruffle too many feathers with Putin?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Clemenza

I see trying to apply reason, Rationale and logic with you when discussing trump and he actions are pointless.

He is clearly infallible in your mind.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

clamenzaToday  05:55 pm JST

I don't think its appropriate to mock President Trump's faith here. 

It is absolutely appropriate to mock any leader for any character flaw they possess.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

So Mueller goes after these Russians with no evidence to back up his claims and he continues to ignore Uranium-gate, Foundation-gate.

If there was any collusion with the Russians, it was Hillary, not Donald.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

so did so solely because the FBI needed new leadership

You must have missed it when Trump said he fired Comey because of "this Russia thing."

A president that cannot allow the wheels of justice to turn without trying to influence the outcome. If were 100% certain there was no wrongdoing by his campaign, he'd keep his fat mouth effing shut.

MAGMA indeed, President Loudmouth Blowhard.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

the tax issue will go forever unanswered

If there is nothing dodgy or embarrassing, there is nothing to hide. Release them.

If Trump is clean on the Russia issue, he should sit down with Mueller and wipe the floor with any line of questioning with simple honesty. You likened Trump’s intellect to Einstein’s. Muller would be no match even if he tried the 4D chess.

I like people who put their money where their mouths are. You seem to admire people expelling gas.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

It is absolutely appropriate to mock any leader for any character flaw they possess.

You just gave me the green light, I am glad you said that, because now I feel vindicated and now I can unleash and unload on any leader and the Democrats have a smorgasbord of them to mock. Thank you.

So Mueller goes after these Russians with no evidence to back up his claims and he continues to ignore Uranium-gate, Foundation-gate.

If there was any collusion with the Russians, it was Hillary, not Donald.

Don't say that! You're making logical sense now, can't have that!

A president that cannot allow the wheels of justice to turn without trying to influence the outcome.

Wheels of a witch hunt? Of course he shouldn't trust them. Trusting rogue agents like Ohr, his wife (Yipes) and Page, Strzok and McCabe and not to mention the 22 Democratic agents trying to dig stuff on Trump. No, I would not trust these people if my very existence depended on it.

If were 100% certain there was no wrongdoing by his campaign, he'd keep his fat mouth effing shut.

I wish the left and particularly the media would keep their effing mouths shut.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Is Mueller working for Trump?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I wish the left and particularly the media would keep their effing mouths shut.

You're allegedly part of the media, so lead by example.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Oh my...

BREAKING: MUELLER INDICTMENTS TEXT PROVES TRUMP DID NOT COLLUDE WITH RUSSIA DURING ELECTION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVyOfiFkfsI

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Serrano... some guy on Youtube spouting his anger at Obama and Clinton over claims that have already been proven false proves what...? The only "Oh my" I can see is the "Oh my, some people clearly don't understand what's happening at all..." If that's the "Oh my" you're referring to... Totally agree and a thumbs up from me!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It’s already been proven there was not only no collusion, but the Russian interference also included anti-Trump rallies in ny during the election process.

this is incorrect. the anti-trump rallies were after the election.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

bass4funkFeb. 17  11:48 pm JST

It is absolutely appropriate to mock any leader for any character flaw they possess.

You just gave me the green light,

You misunderstand, see, it's appropriate to mock a leader for flaws that they possess. The flaws you attribute to them however are born from your hatred, bigotry, and persecution complex, i.e. they are delusional flaws you possess.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The one that had an insurance policy and he and his goomah saying that the POTUS wants to know everything 

taking a moment to view the timeline of the strzok/page texts makes it abundantly clear that "the POTUS wants to know everything " was referring to the russian investigation which the fbi was working on during that period

Business Insider 2/7/18]: The Wall Street Journal cited associates of Strzok and Page on Wednesday evening who said the text referenced internal preparations to brief Obama on Russia's alleged interference in the 2016 election. The text message preceded Obama's trip to the G20 summit that year

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Outsider looking in at this.

so what do we know now.

Russians were trying in influence the US election while Obama was President. Was he successful in stopping the interference?

The Russians involved tried to help Bernie Sanders win. That doesn’t mean Bernie Sanders colluded with Russians. And I don’t see any Bernie supporters feeling bad about it or wondering why the Russians supported their guy.

Foreigners posed as Americans in order to influence an election. I’d say this happens more than a lot of you think. And I’m sure Americans have posed as foreigners to influence elections too. And it will happen again.

Trump didn’t collude with these Russians in order to win.

Russians interfered AFTER the election in anti-Trump activities.

Two conclusions for your consideration.

Americans need to think more. Just because someone on the internet says they are a patriotic evangelical or a black lives matter Chicagoite - don’t get carried away and don’t believe everything you read - especially if they’re on your side.

Why would Russians prefer a Trump victory?

More than one reason - but one obvious one.

If Hillary had won , what would happen? Predictable domestic policy, with a Hawkish President. (Yes - read up in Hillary’s statements)

and Republicans would have accepted the results and gotten back to work and not smashed anything.

Truko wins and what happens?

Well exactly what Russians Wouk do love. Demonstrations, college students weeping and whining and marching , and half the population going into meltdown and attacking the President everyday. And the media and politicians screaming for impeachment.

my suggestion for y’all?

Get back to work, don’t believe everything you read and work together to MAGA.

Fix up your FBI, toughen up and stop spending your time attacking the President and insulting his wife for her shoes or color of dress.

Grow up.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

The point of the special counsel was to indict Americans colluding with foreign powers,

You are clearly unfamiliar with Mueller's mandate.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

You are clearly unfamiliar with Mueller's mandate.

I am. Go read the mandate. Specifically bullet point one.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Oh my...

Carter Page reacts to Russia meddling indictments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etW7U2D3xXM

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I am. Go read the mandate. Specifically bullet point one.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with bullet point one, or with the rest of it. They're perfectly clear.

How in Christ you managed to infer from point one that the Special Counsel is expected to indict Americans (and by your implication, Americans only) will be a mystery to anyone with basic comprehension skills.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@wipeout

How in Christ you managed to infer from point one that the Special Counsel is expected to indict Americans (and by your implication, Americans only) will be a mystery to anyone with basic comprehension skills.

Care to explain how a non-US citizen could ever be indicted under a law making it illegal for US citizens to collude with a foreign power? If you don't reply, I'll understand... lol wipeout indeed.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

This is not your garden-variety trolls making up fake personas in the basement to try to illicit reactions on the Web

This is a sophisticated operation where they spent a lot of money and resources to actually buy real people's identities without their knowledge, set up VPN servers in the US, etc. and yes even criminal - stealing real people's SSNs, opening financial accounts under their names, etc.

"Russia’s troll identities were more sophisticated than anyone thought"

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/16/17021684/facebook-twitter-mueller-russia-troll-factory

One of the most surprising lessons of the indictment is just how seriously the Russians took their fake identities. We might associate troll accounts with spam or weird visuals, but at least some of the accounts described by Mueller were backed up by full-scale identity theft. According to the indictment, defendants used stolen Social Security numbers to build entire false personas, complete with fraudulent photo IDs and PayPal accounts. Crucially, the stolen Social Security numbers meant all of it was happening in a real US citizen’s name. If anyone looked into the person behind the account, they’d see a long paper trail and plenty of government-issued verification to settle their suspicions.

Even the troll’s internet activity would have looked normal from the outside. According to the indictment, one of the first things the Internet Research Agency did was establish a VPN (or virtual private network) within US borders, allowing them to route all activity through a Stateside intermediary. To anyone in the US, it would have looked like an American citizen visiting a real-name account from an American IP address.

That’s a big shift from how we’ve thought of Russian interference for the past year, and it makes things much harder for Facebook, Twitter, and the rest of the internet. When tech companies were called before Congress in November, the focus was on the most obvious troll activity. There were political ads bought in rubles and accounts maintained from Russian IP addresses. Facebook and Twitter were clearly unprepared for an influence campaign of this scale, but the threat seemed equally haphazard. How hard is it to flag Russian IP addresses?

Stopping this kind of fake account is much harder, and it cuts at the heart of how identity works on networks like Facebook. We know how to look for malware or scams, but these accounts weren’t doing anything out of bounds for a regular user. We know how to look for bots, but these accounts were directed by real humans. We know how to verify identities, but with a photo ID and a valid Social Security number, these trolls would have passed every verification test in the industry. It takes effort to establish this kind of identity, which means you can’t run millions at once — but with the viral lift from a social network, you don’t have to.

So to anyone outside, the trolls just look like other Americans posting in America

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Care to explain how a non-US citizen could ever be indicted under a law making it illegal for US citizens to collude with a foreign power? If you don't reply, I'll understand.

The problem is that you don't understand. You've misinterpreted both the Mueller appointment letter and the latest indictment so badly that it's hardly worth my time pointing it out.

If you read the indictment, it makes perfectly plain which laws are concerned, who is indicted, and what the crimes are. Obviously enough.

If you continue to set artificial limits on who may be charged and what they may be charged with, as well as on the scope of the investigation, it's not surprising that you continue to be baffled when reality fails to match your fantasy. The investigation has been conducted according to the terms set out when Mueller was appointed. The limits you are attempting to impose are simply nonexistent.

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certainly a lot of posts on this one ,,,too many to read all of them , still the one's I did read were funny,, like the article itself ,funny ,but junk

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aside from the fact it's nonsense, 13 unnamed Russians, who can't be extradited anyway, and oh yeah in America indictment isn't guilt, it's conviction, I do hope they succeed in convicting for the stated crimes of fabrication of accounts in social media, spewing fake stores and click bots fabricating interest and skewing statistics to influence an election. I want this, established as a crime and then we can round up George works, moveon. org and hundreds of other Democrat party members and left leaning groups and convicting them for this crime. since they did the same thing

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The lack of condemnation of Russia by the right is telling. We now see exactly where the priorities of the right lie.

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@wipeout

You're moving the goal posts. We were talking about point (i) in Mueller's mandate, which is investigating the crime of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. You quoted my comment asking you to explain how a non-American could ever be indicted for crimes that only an American can be charged with. You failed to address this. Do you admit that you were wrong or would you like another shot at it?

The real problem is that you are wildly misinterpreting my original post. I never claimed that foreigners could never be indicted by the special counsel for peripheral crimes discovered by the collusion investigation. I said the purpose of the investigation was to investigate collusion (which only Americans can be charged with) between the Trump campaign and Russia. This is undeniable if you read the Mueller appointment letter. Agree or diasgree?

Nobody is surprised that Russia is attempting to influence and interfere with the election. The point here is that the special counsel was not an open-ended commission of inquiry charged with revealing the full extent of that interference. Its exclusive focus is collusion in that interference. Of course, any federal prosecutor is free to charge anyone with any crimes he discovers, such as election law violation in the case of the Russians. This goes without saying but it is explicity stated in the appointment.

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Why did Mueller's indictments skip over the most obvious and pertinent statute that was violated? His indictments announced Friday are most notable for what Sherlock Holmes famously called “The dog that didn’t bark.” There was a clear, obvious, and pertinent statute that could have been applied to the alleged crimes but wasn’t.

Mueller indicted the Russians only for violating 18 U.S.C. 371 (conspiracy to defraud the United States), 1343 and 1344 (wire fraud and bank fraud), and 1082(A) (identity theft). He did not indict them for violating 52 U.S.C. 30121 (contributions and donations by foreign nationals). The question is, why not?

Actually, Mueller indicted the Russians only for violating 18 U.S.C. 371 (conspiracy to defraud the United States), 1343 and 1344 (wire fraud and bank fraud), and 1082(A) (identity theft). He did not indict them for violating 52 U.S.C. 30121 (contributions and donations by foreign nationals). The question is, why not?

This is the relevant language of 52 U.S.C. 30121, which covers “meddling” in U.S. elections by foreign nationals:

(a) Prohibition: It shall be unlawful for—

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Russians obviously violated this statute; they spent millions of dollars to promote the candidacies of Bernie Sanders, Donald Trump and Jill Stein, and to oppose the candidacies of Hillary Clinton, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. So why weren’t they charged with the most pertinent crime they committed?

Because Christopher Steele arguably violated the same law. He is a foreign national, and he contributed a“thing of value” to the Hillary Clinton campaign, namely the infamous dossier.

Note, too, Section (2): it is a crime to “solicit, accept, or receive” such a contribution from a foreign national. Isn’t that what the Perkins, Coie law firm, the Clinton campaign, the DNC, and probably Hillary herself, did?

It is very peculiar that Friday’s announcement of the indictments was made just in time to distract the nation from the FBI’s confession that it could have stopped the Parkland school slaughter but didn’t bother following up on an explicit warning of the guns stockpiled and the threats of a school shooting by the alleged perp.

It suggests that the announcement was rushed in order to distract the nation from the FBI’s failure to perform its duty at the cost of a horrendous slaughter and trauma. The thousands of students at the high school who escaped slaughter will be traumatized for life by what they experienced that day.

It suggests (but does not prove) that the Mueller team is going out of its way to shield Hillary Clinton and her campaign and their henchmen at Perkins Coie, the DNC, Fusion GPS, and Christopher Steele from their own potential crimes.

Perhaps the reason why Robert Mueller did not make the announcement himself, but rather let his boss do it, is that he wanted to avoid potential questions about the statute that his indictments ignored.

Hope there will be an opportunity for Congress to call Mueller to testify and explain why his indictment dog didn’t bark at the obvious statute that was violated.

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@M3M3M3:

You're moving the goal posts. We were talking about point (i) in Mueller's mandate

The one you persist in misinterpreting.

which is investigating the crime of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia 

Which is investigating - let's just quote it, it's easier - "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump"

There are at least two serious issues with your approach. One is that you've rewritten point (i) to say something it doesn't (including your insertion of the word "crime", and the word "collusion", a double drift from the original), and another is your attempt to impose this now false version as a limit on what the investigation may do or look into.

In addition, you're trying to use point (i) to the exclusion of other things that are clearly contained in the mandate. Why ignore the heading, for example? And the opening sentence?

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download

They directly specify what the investigation is about. Heading: "Russian Interference with the 2016 Presidential Election and Related Matters". First sentence: "... to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian govemment's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election".

Nobody is surprised that Russia is attempting to influence and interfere with the election.

Not really true. The US president has frequently denied it - to loud approval from members of the Republican Party and from many of his supporters. In that respect, establishing what happened is in fact in the public interest. But in any case, the investigation is not in the business of delivering surprises - it's not conducting a kid's birthday party.

Really, your understanding of the mandate is hopeless. For example:

 You quoted my comment asking you to explain how a non-American could ever be indicted for crimes that only an American can be charged with.

I quoted your comment because it misinterpreted point (i) of the mandate, assuming things that simply aren't in there, and I took the opportunity of pointing that out. Like the notion that under the terms of the investigation, only Americans can be indicted. If you don't even understand what point (i) says adequately, anything you base on it, especially after rewording it to your convenience, is logically suspect, or even more likely, plain wrong.

You failed to address this. 

I will continue to fail to. Because on a 10 scale, my interest in that question falls somewhere between 1.2 and 0. For the reasons mentioned above. In a nutshell, you haven't at all understood the mandate. More precisely, you have actively misunderstood it. So your question was futile, because it's based on faulty assumptions, and isn't really worth consideration.

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A large number of people who read the Mueller Russian indictment released on Friday noted a transparent lack of actual substance. Today the absence of substance turns toward the hilarious.

Much like the heavily touted sketchy 2017 Joint Analysis Report (the infamous “14 U.S. intelligence agencies report“) was really only three political intel agencies, FBI (Comey), CIA (Brennan) and ODNI (Clapper), Friday’s Russian indictment had a lot of pages and citations but in the aggregate was an assembly of nothing-burger reporting of various insignificant social media events.

Today the absurdity of the report becomes even more laughable. As Gateway Pundit reports almost everything in the Mueller indictment was previously outlined in a Radio Free Europe report from 2015.  

http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/stunning-mueller-patched-together-much-indictment-2015-radio-free-europe-article/

If that wasn’t funny enough, even the Washington Post finds the majority of the indictment was published last October in a Russian Business Magazine (RBC) article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2018/02/18/the-russian-journalist-who-helped-uncover-election-meddling-is-confounded-by-the-mueller-indictments/?utm_term=.e3d8a38af602

   (WaPo) A 37-page indictment issued by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s team on Friday brings fresh American attention to one of the strangest elements of alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election: The Internet Research Agency (IRA), a state-sponsored “troll factory” in St. Petersburg.

   But much of the information Mueller published on Friday about the agency’s efforts to influence the election had already been published last October — in an article by a Russian business magazine, RBC.

   In a 4,500-word report titled “How the ‘troll factory’ worked the U.S. elections,” journalists Polina Rusyaeva and Andrey Zakharov offered the fullest picture yet of how the “American department” of the IRA used Facebook, Twitter and other tactics to inflame tensions ahead of the 2016 vote. The article also looked at the staffing structure of the organization and revealed details about its budget and salaries.

So what exactly is going on here? Is this entire narrative really just creating the illusion of something, anything, simply because something began… continued… and was really nothing.

Well, essentially, YES.

The reality of the weak-sauce structure of the indictment reflects the abject absurdity of the two-year-long enterprise known as the vast Muh-Russia’ investigation. Essentially, a joint collaborative effort between the political intelligence community and their codependent media narrative engineers to manufacture a false premise.

Everyone should have noticed the actual missing substance from the 2016 Joint Analysis Report as it was enhanced an presented in 2017. It was a goofy assembly of odd data labeling Russian hackers and such as planetary arch-villains.

Hillary Clinton herself started pushing it on August 26th, 2016, with Pickle’s Vast Russian Planetary Conspiracy Theorem. People laughed at the time, but where we are today is nothing more than what happens when the media, then government officials, follows the Clinton campaign’s pied piper.

Total madness. Abject absurdity.

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bass4funk

PEW Research Center

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the "nothing burger" continues

Rick Gates, a former campaign aide to President Donald Trump, will plead guilty to charges related to fraud and is willing to testify against his longtime business partner, Paul Manafort, The Los Angeles Times reported on Sunday.

Manafort, a longtime Washington lawyer and lobbyist, served as Trump’s campaign manager during part of the 2016 presidential race.

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Still nothing on Trump himself. Teflon Don. The investigation will get everyone but him I guarantee you. See you all in 2020!

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@wipeout

Wipeout, let's be clear. I am not saying that what the Special Counsel is doing is wrong, illegal, or contrary to his mandate or that Russians can not be indicted for anything. I think you've read way too much into my comment and you've run with it. I am simply saying that the focus of this investigation is Trump and the Trump Campaign. This is evidenced simply by the fact that Trump appears in point (i), not in (ii) or (iii). Period.

Not really true. The US president has frequently denied it - to loud approval from members of the Republican Party and from many of his supporters. In that respect, establishing what happened is in fact in the public interest. But in any case, the investigation is not in the business of delivering surprises - it's not conducting a kid's birthday party.

Because the President is an idiot. I agree it's in the public interest, but I'm not surprised Russia is trying to interfere. Are you? What is in the indictment is actually less than what I imagined (but there may be more to come). This is why I said that if nobody in the Trump campaign is indicted, this is a 'nothing burger' (For me, in my opinion, and me only, according to my subjective standards). If I were American, I would not be interested in having the Special Counsel spend millions to indict faceless people who will never come to America or face justice. Why didn't Mueller publish the details of his findings with names redacted and have the indictments sealed? This way people could be scooped up and arrested if they ever came back to the US or a friendly 3rd country.

One is that you've rewritten point (i) to say something it doesn't (including your insertion of the word "crime", and the word "collusion", a double drift from the original), and another is your attempt to impose this now false version as a limit on what the investigation may do or look into.

I concede the wording is my error, but I think you are taking this way too literally. The overarching mandate of the justice department is to ensure that no laws have been broken. It goes without saying that the 'links' and 'coordination' extend to things which have the potential to be illegal. The AG has no authority to appoint a special counsel that goes outside of his own mandate as AG. To use a ridiculous examlpe, he could not appoint a special counsel to investigate what Donald Trump eats for breakfast every morning. There needs to be potential crimes and illegality involved.

In addition, you're trying to use point (i) to the exclusion of other things that are clearly contained in the mandate. Why ignore the heading, for example? And the opening sentence?

Because the opening sentence does not set out the special counsel's job, it's what the AG considers to be his own job. The AG is delegating points (i),(ii) and (iii) specifically to the Special Counsel.

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Interestingly it's the American Tech companies that facilitated all these issues in the first place....

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Unknown: Do you always cut and paste articles? We just link here.

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/18/too-funny-special-prosecutor-mueller-patched-together-much-of-his-muh-russia-indictment-from-old-news-articles/amp/

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