Trump, Biden take break from campaign to commemorate 9/11 anniversary

Tokyo-Engr

I am very open to all points of view. I make no apologies for asking technical questions about an event that makes no sense.

If you want please feel free to refute what I have written or provide alternative explanations.

All the questions you ask, from the flying skills of the terrorists, to the military maneuvers, to the simultaneous falling of the buildings are very familar from the various "truther" sites. I could continue your list, I have seen it so many time. Shall we continue with the "we found thermite" or "lets pull them" tropes?

What I am saying is that the truthers completely ignore the historical context, claiming that 9-11 was somehow an isolated event. They completely ignore the long history of jihadist attacks that precedet and followed 9-11. If 9-11 was somehow a byzantine government conspiracy, does that also apply to the embassy bombings? Or the first attempt to blow up the WTC in 1992?

If you ignore all that and look at superficial details, you can always find something that looks "strange". But the claim that in the middle of a string of terror attacks, your government would go through insane effort to simulate another one is simply nonsensical.

Now saying that you love your country and you love old glory is bad? Don’t think so. But never bow or relent or apologize for being patriotic. 9/11 never forget.

Bob,

Your experience pretty much mirrors mine, and I’m sure a lot of others.

@Zaphod

The 9-11 troothers

I am very open to all points of view. I make no apologies for asking technical questions about an event that makes no sense.

If you want please feel free to refute what I have written or provide alternative explanations.

I am very open to hear your point of view.

Trump never met these principles. He and his presidency are a stain on the United States, but hey, that's been the last 20 years of presidents and more.

Hi Vanessa. President Trump has today been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for the second time this week after Bahrain and Israel normalized ties. He has managed to thaw relations between Israel and the Arab world in an unprecedented way.

In fact, what I saw was the start of a now 4 year-long meltdown and temper tantrum by what I previously thought were perfectly reasonable adults.

True. But then again, you have to give Trump a bit of credit here. He is a very adept troll, whether its by design or accidental. I could not begin to match him if I made it my life goal to troll the world.

I decided to get out of my little bubble and really question everything, including my contempt for ordinary Americans

Strange since it looks to me like you just voiced contempt for a whole slew of ordinary Americans. Not that I question if that contempt is deserved, I just find it odd how you lifted contempt for some, left it for others, and now say you no longer have this contempt.

I realize now that I had been fed a steady diet of anti US propaganda since childhood.

False. It seems to me that you have just confused the ugly truth for anti U.S. propaganda. A patriot who cannot admit the warts his country has is in fact no kind of patriot at all. That sort of patriot does not love their country. That sort of patriot loves a false image of their country. Thus the love is also false.

Not that I am stumping for patriotism here. I love a great many things about America but that is also true for Japan. But my allegiance? NEVER to humans! My allegiance is to principles of decency, fairness and justice and once you part with them I part with you. Trump never met these principles. He and his presidency are a stain on the United States, but hey, that's been the last 20 years of presidents and more.

Tokyo-Engr

As a scientist / engineer I would offer the following for consideration;

*The hijackers were able to fly Boeing 757s and 767s precisely into 3 targets that day. These*

Kind of disheartening to see 9-11 troothing conspiracy here. Yes, the US reaction was misguided, but the attack itself was clearly a jihadist attack, and not some bizarre internal conspiracy. It simply followed a long string of other attacks, like the Cole bombing, the Sudan and Kenya embassy bombing, the first attack on the WTC by exploding a massive truck bomb in the basement (forgotten that already, have we), etc. I could go on for pages. In fact, while enormously effective and deadly, the 9-11 attack was fundamentally just another jihadist suicide truck bomb (like the marine compound bombing in Beirut). Only planes instead of trucks this time.

The 9-11 troothers completely ignore context by painting this as a somehow unique and unprecedented event.

so these two terrorists are only "so called" dead?

He had to mention what he has so-called done

He noted the U.S. killings of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2019 and of Iranian General Qassem Soleimani in January, but made no mention of the 2011 killing of 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden under President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden.

And of course on a solemn day like this, Trump had to make it about himself. He had to mention what he has so-called done. I'm not surprised. While Biden concentrated on talking about the loved ones who had lost people they know. Trump using this is a platform to express what he has done is despicable.

I would also like to add that not remembering the words to the Pledge of Allegiance and then trying to fake it is worse than kneeling when the Star Spangled Banner is being played. As kids, we all had to say the Pledge everyday while placing our hand over our hearts and looking at the flag in our classrooms, right after they play the bugle recording over the intercom. To this day, I can't forget the words and can recite it perfectly. It's something you just can't forget. He is the first president I know who has forgotten and didn't bother to review it before such an important event like this one.

@Tokyo-Engr

After 9/11 the U.S. went on to engage in war with not Bin Laden, but instead someone an enemy of Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein. The events of 9/11 were used by the U.S. government (unanimously) to engage in this war.

Nothing is coincidental or spontaneous about the US's foreign policies. Just like their NASA missions they plan everything in greter detail. A lot of non-American journalists and strategy analyts today agree that the US has used 9/11 as a pretext to achieve their plans i.e. the Redrawing the Middle East. In this regard:

*The term “New Middle East” was introduced to the world in June 2006 in Tel Aviv by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (who was credited by the Western media for coining the term) in replacement of the older and more imposing term, the “Greater Middle East.”- Globalsearch.ca*

The US openly shared a map of new Middle East soon after they successfully occupied Iraq. This was just before Saddam's brutal killing on a holy day and in the hands of the US's new ally Shia ally Muqdata al-Sadr. After the killing of Saddam and fall of his secular regime, Muqdata al_Sadr wanted to take Saddam's place as a new leader of the country and thus he demanded the withdrawal of US forces from the country. Meanwhile the US had formed an alliance with PKK (YPG), a terror organisation that killed over 45K people in the region, and it was about to carry out a military operation with PKK to crack down on rebels across the country. Just before this operation Muqdata al_Sadr fled to Iran. This populist chracter returned to Iraq in 2011 and currently he is busy protecting the US elements in Iraq against Iran and anti-occupation groups across the country. The US and its allies have probably made couple of trillions from the Iraqi oils already. However, there is some more, a lot more to exploit in the region. The Eastern Mediterranean gas reserves, the largest in the world, has long been an interest to the western powers. In this regard, the Libyan leader Gaddafi who was not on good terms with Israel and US, had to go. So after Saddam, another secularist leader who fought Islamic radicals (the servants of the west) in the past, was taken down and executed brutally in 2011.

Since it is not clear what the US will gain by changing the borders of countries in the Middle East (in practice it is impossible for the US to achieve this), I believe that the map is just a deflection from the real plans of the US. The peace agreements between Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE suggest that the western countries have now agreed on a deal in relation to the Eastern Mediterranean gas reserves. Of course the US will take its share from this project. With regards to the gas reserves of the region, I note that the west (Frace, Italy, Germany...) is currently blaming Turkey for being a hostile country- this is the country where region's over 6m refugees live. The west had made similar accusations against Iraq, Libya and Syria in the past. It is clear from their plan that they don't want Turkey to take its fair share from the Eastern Mediterranean gas reserves and unfortunately for the Turks, Erdogan is just another US-supported populist character like Muqdata al_Sadr.

Sometimes you need to look at the consequences of an event, rather than its causes. And you are right to question why Iraq was invaded and Saddam was executed if the aim was stopping Al-Qaeda. Considering there was NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, it wouldn't be wrong to argue that US and UK govs misinformed the world and media at the time. So it is likely that they similarly misinformed the world about 9/11 too, who knows- there has NOT been a thorough investigation yet and I don't think there will ever be.

Biden is a real man, with morals!

Trump's 9/11 speech: "Today we mark the anniversary of Osama Bin Laden taking over 2000 American lives. But he failed - failed because his numbers don't come any near to mine....I've killed over 190K and it's still growing! Gotcha Osama - you're a Loser!"....

 I realize now that I had been fed a steady diet of anti US propaganda since childhood. 

Very interesting. An unusual childhood. North Korea? China? I and probably most other people in the West had an opposite kind of brainwashed upbringing.

 Pence read a biblical verse 

For many of us his reading must have brought back childhood memories of forced-fed religious instruction which, fortunately, many of us survive, as the Bible instructs: "When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.."

(Trump) noted the U.S. killings of Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in 2019 and of Iranian General Qassem Soleimani in January, but made no mention of the 2011 killing of 9/11 mastermind Osama bin Laden under President Barack Obama and Vice President Biden.

I doubt that the omission of Osama bin Laden's name indicates Trump's skepticism over the latter's involvement in the Saudi 9/11 attack. Rather we can safely assume that Trump's traumatic childhood has prevented him from growing up to become a mature man and putting away "childish things". He's not "chilled", he's "blue-pilled".

I'd like to see Sarah Cooper do trump's pledge of allegiance!

BLM has spent the day on social media complaining that the commemoration is only for white people because not than many Black died. Don't try to excuse BLM for this, they are the other side of the same white nationalist coin.

Didn't Trump visit New York?

@Serrano

The headlines from the time read: "Donald Trump 'very proud' after dropping 'Mother of All Bombs' on Afghanistan."

So this was just another tour de force for the US and Trump rather than fighting terrorism. I don't believe the US has ever fought terrorism, if the intention was fighting terrorism they would have cleared their backyard first i.e South America. Indeed judging by the date of establishment, it wouldn't be wrong to argue that the US has created new terror organisation soon after the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. We did NOT have such IS or Boko Haram in the past. And using the largest non-nuclear bomb in the region is nothing but careless killing and also sending a message to the rivalling countries such as China and Russia. I won't bother telling you about who has been stealing the Iraqi oils and Afghan golds in the last 2 decades.

well done JT. The level of discourse from a certain few is beneath us.

Lets not forget the purpose of this particular thread. God bless the all the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Lets all forget our petty political arguments for this thread at least and honor the victims.

Trump mentioned 'American democracy' and 'courage', two more subjects he knows nothing about.

No one really knows that wasn't directly involved that had to survive it, not just Trump.

Has Trump ever spoken to his 'friend' MbS about the Saudis involved in the attacks? Or does Trump only talk about selling weapons when speaking to Saudis. How about Trump's friend MbZ in the UAE? Two UAE citizens were involved, plus the UAE was used as part of their operation. Or again does Trump only care about selling them more weapons and having them fight proxy wars.

Interesting how Trump haters even on this somber day of a horrific event that happened 19 years ago and the only thing these people can do is criticize the President as if he were responsible for the attacks. If you really want to get political we can talk about the Kerry and Biden and their deep pocket connections to the MidEast, but does that matter today in all honesty. None of that is relevant today. Best to reflect on the 3,000 plus people that (by no fault of their own) died horrifically and unnecessarily on that tragic day. It's quite ok to leave Trump out of this one.

By the way I did not cut and past the above post - I tried to use bulleted points and it turned it into italics for some reason

John,

I will try to answer your question in a way that will likely be quite unpopular. I do not know what happened on 9/11. It is obvious the government of the U.S. did not complete a thorough investigation into the matter. Did it happen the way we have been told? Maybe. Was it something else more sinister? I think it is possible. As a scientist / engineer I would offer the following for consideration;

The hijackers were able to fly Boeing 757s and 767s precisely into 3 targets that day. These hijackers are men who never flew a jet airplane and according to the U.S. government's published accounts their skills flying Cessna single propeller aircraft were very bad. I have spoken with several friends who are commercial airline pilots and they say this would be very difficult for even them?

The response was hindered significantly by the fact that there just happened to be, on the exact same day and at the exact same time, exercises simulating a similar event in the Northeast corridor of the U.S. You can actually hear this on the Air Traffic Control recordings which were released by the U.S. government. I have listed a few times and they are haunting.

On 9/11 all 3 buildings collapsed in a perfect symmetrical manner. Was this controlled? I have no idea. However I know when buildings are detonated it takes a significant amount of expertise to have them collapse inward and implode. Personnel who do this go through years of training as it is understood a perfect symmetrical implosion is difficult to achieve.

After 9/11 the U.S. went on to engage in war with not Bin Laden, but instead someone an enemy of Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein. The events of 9/11 were used by the U.S. government (unanimously) to engage in this war.

In September 2000, the Project for a New American Century was published a document entitled "Rebuilding America's Defenses, Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century"; On the top of page 51 it states,

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions." Also if you search for the word Iraq in this document it is very interesting (it appears 25 times). The document is real and no one denies its existence.

https://archive.org/details/RebuildingAmericasDefenses

I have no idea what happened on 9/11 (I was in a business hotel in Kanagawa when it happened) but looking at all of the above and then the U.S. response it does make one wonder.

@John: One explanation would be that it might be prudent for someone to keep the event in the news to deflect the obvious question.

Why did the United States of America choose to attack someone who was a sworn enemy of the person said to have masterminded this event?

As a responsible citizen I think we should all at least ask this question.

Did it happen exactly the way we were told? Quite possible but it seems very statistically unlikely

Speaking of air strikes, does anyone know the reason why the US had to drop the largest non-nuclear bomb on Afghanistan?

To stop terrorists from killing people and causing suffering?

According to BBC (16.10.2013) about half a million people died in Iraq as a result of war-related causes between the US-led invasion in 2003 and mid-2011. Nobody knows for sure how many more died between 2011 and 2020.

When the above is the case, 9/11 sounds overrated and irrelevant to the world. So I don't understand why the media still has to make news out of 9/11. No one commemorates Muslim victims who died during the US led air strikes and occupations. No one ever discusses why so many muslims have become refugees soon after the US led air strikes and occupations and yet we are back to 9/11...For sure Iraq will continue to be a US occupied territory until the last drop of oil is stolen from the Iraqi people, and Afghanistan will continue to be a chessboard for the US's strategy games in the region. Speaking of air strikes, does anyone know the reason why the US had to drop the largest non-nuclear bomb on Afghanistan?

We don’t know who will win, but we do know it will be chaos either way.

Thanks, Democrats and your massive mail-in ballots. Thanks a whole lot.

I like neither candidate....it’s amazing these 2 are the best the US can come up with but good for them to stop and honor those that list their lives. Unfortunately the word moron has morphed into meaning someone you just disagree with.

Hi Peter Neil, thanks! pleased to meet your acquaintance!

Yes, as a matter of fact I was a long time liberal (small l big L, both). I didn't see a lot of support for the kind of issues you lay out, but I did start to question my own sanity when the world didn't explode after Trump's win in 2016. In fact, what I saw was the start of a now 4 year-long meltdown and temper tantrum by what I previously thought were perfectly reasonable adults. It was embarrassing. I decided to get out of my little bubble and really question everything, including my contempt for ordinary Americans as well as the United States as a whole. I realize now that I had been fed a steady diet of anti US propaganda since childhood. Im now a much more mature and well-rounded individual who can see both sides of an issue, yet not let an election loss both consume me and define me. I guess you could say, as the kids say these days, "red-pilled".

Thats heartbreaking. Im sure hundreds of thousands of Americans will switch their votes as a result of this latest outrage as reciting the pledge of allegiance is right at the top of every voter's wish list.

It would be interesting to know what proportion of pro-Trump voters can themselves recite the Pledge of Allegiance or know the words to the National Anthem.

Faux patriotism. Couldn't even say the pledge which every school child can recite. Excellent role models these Trumps.

Thats heartbreaking. Im sure hundreds of thousands of Americans will switch their votes as a result of this latest outrage as reciting the pledge of allegiance is right at the top of every voter's wish list.

Was Mrs. Trump wearing the same jacket she wore to visit the US / Mexico border?

Sincere thank you to all emergency service personnel everywhere. The images of the bravery shown by NY police, fire and emergency workers are forever etched in my memory.

"The only thing that stood between the enemy and a deadly strike at the heart of American democracy was the courage

Trump mentioned 'American democracy' and 'courage', two more subjects he knows nothing about.

Has Trump ever spoken to his 'friend' MbS about the Saudis involved in the attacks? Or does Trump only talk about selling weapons when speaking to Saudis. How about Trump's friend MbZ in the UAE? Two UAE citizens were involved, plus the UAE was used as part of their operation. Or again does Trump only care about selling them more weapons and having them fight proxy wars.

@Peter Neil

Thats heartbreaking. Im sure hundreds of thousands of Americans will switch their votes as a result of this latest outrage as reciting the pledge of allegiance is right at the top of every voter's wish list.

Sigh...

Trump and Melania were both clearly unable to recite the US Pledge of Allegiance today.

How embarrassing, but totally in character. Trump swayed around and could only mouth the last few words of each line in an exaggerated style a few seconds after he heard them. Melania tried for a 5 seconds then gave up completely.