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© Thomson Reuters 2018.As outrage grows over children, Trump says he will not let U.S. become 'migrant camp'
By Lisa Lambert and Makini Brice WASHINGTON©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
157 Comments
cla68
Democrats are trying to use the immigration issue to divert from the IG report hearings.
katsu78
Trump and the white supremacists he surrounds himself with are incapable of telling the truth. They live in a fog of constant self-delusion to justify their hatred for everyone who doesn't look like themselves.
This is what Trump voters voted for. It's time for them to show us if they're going to meekly let the country fall into fascism, or if they're going to resist.
bass4funk
Uh-oh....lol, who are these fictitious White Suupremacists? Schumer and his band of heartless Democrats that won’t vote on a solid and proper immigration bill that will block these loopholes.
No, they don’t want to have a nation that is dumping ground for anyone regardless of checkered pass, the Democrats created this monster and now they want to blame the GOP because they are more worried about votes than the actual rule of law and if they really cared for these kids (which I don’t believe so a second) they would discourage illegals to enter the country illegally.
An end to chain migration, an end to the visa lottery program, an end to open borders and funding for a wall.
What about The Democrats? They have done enough damage for years allowing our country to retain open borders, what will they do? Bully now changed uphold the laws, which I doubt or will they insist to for their allow mass illegal immigration to continue.
SuperLib
Trump changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children.
theFu
The wall in rural areas is foolish. A wall in populated areas makes sense and has been proven to work around the world.
Parents and children from illegal immigrants or anyone overstaying their visa should be housed together until being deported, unless the parent is being held for a crime besides immigration.
At deportation, biometrics should be taken and those people placed on a NEVER ALLOWED list for entry into the USA. This would apply to the children too, so the parents need to understand their violation would prevent their children from any future in the USA.
If someone is caught inside the USA after previously being deported, I don't have a good answer, but catch and release is NOT an option.
Perhaps Japan will accept them? They need workers, right?
SuperLib
Well, at least we have a list of demands. Give in, and they will release the children.
bass4funk
No, what he wants to do is prevent more illegal migration, if you don’t want your children in the country, then don’t send them or you don’t have to worry about being separated from your kids, but if you break the law you will be prosecuted according to the law.
Not entirely, as in German case or in Sweden’s case but even Denmark’s case
CrazyJoe
I never, ever thought I would say this, but I am ashamed to be an American at this point in our history, and I am helpless to do anything about it.
It's no surprise that a majority of Republicans support this policy. The party is an empty shell of racists and zealots manipulated by the wealthy. That there is no bottom to their evil is and was obvious to see. The GOP base isn't worth trying to save or appeal to anymore. We have to try and appeal to independents and those who are persuadable.
Strangerland
Trump's America - taking children hostages. Classy.
Strangerland
And in wanting to prevent more illegal immigration, he changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children.
bass4funk
Yes and the mad dash for the left wing exit.
I was ashamed for a long time to be an American to live in the state and in the country that allows considered illegal immigration and doesn’t care about its citizens in puts illegals over the rule of law and over immigrants they have sold all of the rules and laws of our country and want to be citizens in the proper way.
What a bunch of garbage, Democrats are some of the most racist people, they’re racist policies are the reasons why we are in the situation they keep Latinos down they keep blacks down they help and she will crimes in Liberally controlled cities. The most wealthiest of liberals with all the power and money that they have, don’t lift a single finger to help try to make the situation better.
That depends, the way the liberals and Democrats are acting, they’re pushing more and more independence our way and that is the reason why the polls and gap are closing between the Democrats and Republicans, Democrats should be leading miles away and do not and that’s not a good thing, but they want to keep acting like fools so let them
Blacklabel
The parents who chose to bring their children knowing what the policy is, are the ones who are harming the children. Its not like this is a surprise action at the border.
jcapan
Let's be clear. Trump could chain those kids up and send them to GITMO until they're 18 and his most loyal supporters would be down with that too. Authoritarian followers will do anything that daddy says.
Toasted Heretic
Of course he won't. He's too busy letting America become the leading child abuser with the horrific treatment of migrant children.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-colleen-kraft-separating-families-at-border-form-of-child-abuse/
The man is pond life.
Blacklabel
Independents are the happiest they have been since 2005 with the direction of the country. Might want to try again, or scream about something a little louder while at the same time obstructing the solution.
Strangerland
Then you should continue separating children from their parents. Let the voters decide if they agree with these actions or not.
nishikat
What do you mean? I have a house in Germany. It's a great place. And how is Japan?
Even FOX News people say this is bad.
Reagan signed 3M illegal amnesty and Reagan failed on the border too just like Trump is failing on the wall.
serendipitous1
If this kind of policy continues, Trump will create a generation of potential terrorists from Central and South America. Separating kids from their parents, even for a short time, will make those parents and kids crazy with fear and, later, anger.
Blacklabel
It is pretty clear that the policy will remain in place. Liberals totally ignoring the ACLU report that children were actually abused from 2009-2014 because it doesnt fit the timeline or narrative.
My friend was separated from his child and family for almost a year during his application for a legal visa. But illegals dont have to be separated or inconvenienced in any way? Dont want to hear anything about "cages" either, these are the same places as in 2014, proven by pictures that we have been shown by Twitter liberals when they thought it wa Trump doing it.
Blacklabel
So why arent all these kids mad at Obama when he did the same thing to their older brothers?
Blacklabel
Anyone who regrets their decision to illegally enter the country instead of following the rules should be fingerprinted, given their kids back and issued a bus ticket back to their country of citizenship as a one time gesture of good will. Family is then reunited and they can go about their lives.
Strangerland
Good, and the voters can decide if they agree with this come November.
And once again you are talking as if we read the same right-wing loony websites you do, and have some clue about which reality you are twisting into this talking point. (Hint: we don't).
SuperLib
By intentionally inflicting harm on innocent children. And you support that.
Strangerland
You're right! In this black and white world we live in, where everything is either A or B, with nothing in between, you speak the truth! Thank god we don't live in a world with nuanced situations that have an option C or D even.
SuperLib
You also support intentionally inflicting harm on children.
plasticmonkey
So why'd you post a link to them?
Again, your answer to this purported scourge is to separate kids from their parents. The Trump administration--through Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller--has made it clear that breaking up families is a policy meant to send a message.
Perhaps it would do you good to listen to the sound of young children sobbing uncontrollably, calling out for their mothers and fathers over and over. And a border control agent joking about it.
https://www.propublica.org/article/children-separated-from-parents-border-patrol-cbp-trump-immigration-policy?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1529351580
The Trump presidency makes me want to vomit.
Blacklabel
I gave you the links yesterday, you just choose to ignore them. The ACLU did a 6 year report showing abuse of the migrant children during the Obama administration, Pictures of kids in cages are all over the internet from 2014 as are articles about children being detained and separated from their families. Google is your friend. People arent buying that this only started happening when Trump became president, no matter how hard liberals and the media try to push that.
Blacklabel
So everyone wants to hold Trump accountable for the "harm" and "ripping children from their parents arms".
Any accountability from 2009-2015?
https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody
Law students in the International Human Rights Clinic examined a subset of the records obtained. The documents show numerous cases involving federal officials’ verbal, physical and sexual abuse of migrant children; the denial of clean drinking water and adequate food; failure to provide necessary medical care; detention in freezing, unsanitary facilities; and other violations of federal law and policy and international law. The documents provide evidence that U.S. officials were aware of these abuses as they occurred, but failed to properly investigate, much less to remedy, these abuses.
plasticmonkey
You are correct that kids were separated under Obama as well, which was also abhorrent. But the practice has intensified under Sessions and is being applied to asylum seekers. That is new.
stormcrow
The U.S. is already a migrant camp in many senses.
It's been that way for hundreds of years, hasn't it?
Toasted Heretic
The political system is very different to the US, so I doubt that.
The only similarity is the US now is edging towards fascism and brutalising people, like Germany did in the 30s.
The world looks on it horror at what's happening. It's not enough.
Bintaro
Non-profit organization ProPublica release an audio of children after they've been seperated from their parents.
https://www.propublica.org/article/children-separated-from-parents-border-patrol-cbp-trump-immigration-policy?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1529351580
Blacklabel
You dont seek asylum by illegally crossing the border then trying to claim asylum when caught. There are specific places you go to claim asylum and certain rules about what is an acceptable reason and what is not.
Its similar to the electoral college, liberals are only outraged about something when it goes against them politically. But never willing to come to the table and work to change the law. So its a perpetual state of outrage, which lost you the 2016 election and will lose you the next one too. Havent seen one Dem yet say they are willing to work together with the administration to find a solution to this.
When you are the minority party due to having no message other than obstruction, thats what happens to you. You have to work with the people in charge and get whatever deal you can. You dont get to decide, as you lost the election.
Strangerland
I have not seen any links provided that show the Obama administration separated children from parents.
As far as I can tell these actions were started by the Trump administration, with Trump and the Trumpets spreading fake news that the Obama administration was also separating children from their parents.
Blacklabel
Does your Google not work? seriously?
nishikat
Where was FOX news and all the white supremacist evangelicals covering this?
Because even people at FOX and lots of Republicans are blasting Trump. The ones who are not blasting him are his cult followers.
Fake news. Just like Trump's wall and his Muslim ban
Strangerland
I'm finding nothing that supports your assertion. If that means my google is broken, then so be it. But personally, I have more faith in Google's ability to find a search result, than in your unsupported claims.
And as you yourself seem to have an inability to post a link that supports the argument you are making, I'm assuming that as we've seen so many times in the past when you finally provide a link that you think supports your assertion, the actual circumstances do not support the talking point you've twisted them into.
jcapan
Stranger, these are what he's talking about:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/06/18/how-images-of-separated-children-are-shaping-the-immigration-debate/?utm_term=.a856c2d9ae60
https://qz.com/1291470/photos-immigrant-children-detained-at-the-placement-center-in-2014/
Seth M
I get people sometimes get fooled by politicians. but knowingly support someone running concentration camps on kids, in the 21st century! ? the hell?
lucabrasi
How many times has history shown us that once a group of people decide that a particular politician is the saviour of everything they hold dear, then that politician is immune from any kind of criticism?
Every act, no matter how clearly abhorrent to any rational, outside observer, must be defended with clever, patriotic-sounding soundbites and so-called common sense arguments.
Anything is justifiable if it's done in the same of the Leader. Dissenting voices are treacherous.
Doesn't take much imagination to grasp how so many of the horrors of the past eighty years, which we like to think are incomprehensible in this day and age, were allowed to happen....
Wolfpack
So the new rule is that only people without children can be put in prison? Think of all the innocent children of criminals that are torn from their parents arms crying and traumatized for life. Guess we should let all criminal parents out of jail immediately- for the sake of the children.
Blacklabel
Trump is immune from criticism? Or are you talking about a previous President?
M3M3M3
@zichi
I'm not sure how much first hand experience you have with the situation in Germany but the official crime statistics do not tell the whole story. The fact that migrant related crime has dropped in 2017 is more a reflection of the fact that the rise in 2016 was always going to be hard to top. The police are not pursuing non-violent crimes like burglaries in the way they were prior to the migrant crisis, and the futility in reporting certain crimes has changed people's reporting behaviour. Certain violent crimes, such as attacks on Jews, are rising year after year.
SuperLib
You support intentionally inflicting emotional harm on children in political negotiations.
How do you live with that?
Blacklabel
I place the blame squarely on their parents who brought them to the USA knowing what would happen.
Parents are responsible for their children, Not me, the government or society.
Blacklabel
"Just because your child gets across the border that doesn't mean your child gets to stay" - Hillary Clinton 2014
Wolfpack
America is not the richest nation with its $20 trillion debt and tens of trillions in unfunded social welfare liabilities. That said, American businesses do invest billions in Central and South American countries. The problem is not foreign investment or American foreign aid - it’s domestic corruption and Leftist politics. If the American far Left were to be believed, Venezuela should be a socialist utopia today. The fact that it is not does not deter their admiration for its system of government one iota.
Of course no one can blame the proletariat for wanting out of these mostly Leftist dominated hell holes. The Democrat party’s Marxist open borders ideology will only import the poverty and Leftist politics that devastated Latin America to the US. Why would Americans want that devastation for themselves? The deterioration has already begun in pockets of Left dominated sections of America with Detroit and Baltimore’s high murder rates, California’s huge wealth disparities and homelessnes, and Illinois fiscal crisis. It’s doubtful that America will be able to save it’s own peoples future prospects. It’s folly to take on the disaster’s created by other nations as well.
nishikat
Not letting them stay and dealing with them in a humane fashion is one thing. Trump puts them in a cage like wild animals in a zoo. He is cruel. Just like he wants to put Muslims in a cage though his proposed Muslim registry. Cruel man. Being humane is one thing. Trump as we see here is something else.
bass4funk
The kids are not being beaten or abused. In fact they are better off at the detention center than wandering in the hot desert with Coyotes, drug smugglers, lack of waters and other lack of hygiene facilities. Again, the left can’t say anything, you don’t want to be separated from your kids, don’t send them to a foreign sovereign nation alone.
bass4funk
Not really, very similar, actually worse.
We had fascism for 8 years and now the left is trying to use it to force us to take in illegals when we are not obligated to.
Some people may see it in one way as you’re putting it in some will see it my way as I’m putting it
plasticmonkey
That doesn't make sense.
They are better off with their parents.
Attilathehungry
It is important to note that families who present themselves at official border crossings and claim asylum status are NOT immediately separated. Their claims are either accepted or rejected. In the latter case, they are invited to return to their homes. Only in cases where families try to illegally breach the border are the children separated, as they are in any criminal proceeding.
Not to mention that a case can be made that parents who put their kids through this are abusive, so the kids may be better off in a well run detention center, getting food and medical care, than with parents who drag them across 2000 km of Mexican desert. The idea that the kids are put in "cages" is ridiculous hyperbole, intended to tug emotions while ignoring the important policy questions. Typical radical politics.
Blacklabel
Yet their parents chose to endanger them. Took them from their home country and are the direct cause of their current detention in a foreign country, separated from their parents.
Blacklabel
just a distraction from the release of the data that shows 60,000 of the "DACA kids" actually have arrest records. Plus trying to cover up the IG report testimony in Congress. If Dems actually cared they would work together to change the law.
SuperLib
Headline on Fox News right now:
Years of backlash: How Obama White House sparked outrage over treatment of immigrant kids, and why Trump refueled the controversy.
So Fox News is doing its job to misrepresent.
The play is to compare Obama with Trump in order to justify Trump’s decision. If they can sell it as hypocrisy, then their base is more willing to go along with it as a form of revenge.
From the article:
“It was the practice of the Obama administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children. It is the policy of the Trump administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children,” Kolken said. “I don’t really care which type of abuse or abuser people find more abhorrent, because it is all abuse, and it is all abhorrent.”
In the bubble, you can misrepresent anything you want by leaving out informaion or intentionally omitting context to make two things seem the same.
In this case, they are comparing detention facilities set up during the sudden influx a few years back under Obama. The conditions were bad as everyone was caught off guard by the massive number of people coming across. Once the influx was processed, the temporary centers were shut down, and things went back to normal.
What Trump did was intentionally change what these people are charged with, and he did it with the full intent of inflicting emotional harm on chrildren to extract concessions in the immigration debate. It was calculated. Hurting children was the goal. The victory. The plan.
They are comparing the conditions in a sudden humanitarian crisis to a premeditated act to hurt a child. In order to do that, strip away context and withhold the policy differences, and you get that quote above. Obama hurt kids. Trump hurt kids. See? It’s the same thing.
The heart of the issue is that Trump and his fans are intentionally inflicting harm on children to extract concessions. Don’t let them forget it. Remind them of that every day.
They deserve to live with that shame.
nishikat
Reagan with 3M greencard amnesty
Sam Whitte
Why is it so hard for people (both Americans and others) to understand that the US has immigration laws, just like all countries do? People can speak about the Statue of Liberty and the good ole' days, but the US never had an open door policy where people where allowed to freely enter at their own discretion.
Pick whatever country you like (or dislike), and I will guarantee you that if you sneak across its border, or enter as a visitor and decide to overstay, you will not be greeted with hugs, kisses and a bouquet of roses when caught. Countries have laws, and for those who only want to follow the laws which suit them best, don't then blame the government for arresting/detaining/removing you.
Mexicans aren't going to the US for asylum. They are going there to work and have a better life. That's not what asylum is for. And you certainly wouldn't be sending all your hard earned money back to the terrible country to supposedly escaped from. So that's a myth.
So what country in South/Central America are they escaping from which is in turmoil? Which ever one it is, why do they purposely pass thru a handful or more of other countries which are not in turmoil just to reach the US to complain about the asylum/immigration process?
These people bring children with them for one simple reason. Because they know if they arrive with a child and claim asylum, and keep their story straight (they all have been coached on what to say and not to say), that they have a better chance of getting in with child than without. The parents use their own children just to obtain their end goal.
None of this is the fault of the US Government, ICE, US Immigration Policy, or the President. It is the fault of any person who decides they will enter the US illegally, overstay illegally, lie/cheat/steal to get what they want.
Matt Hartwell
Nobody talks about the root of the problem. The state of the countries these people are fleeing. If America were to attempt to "fix" these countries, people would be outraged and no doubt the U.S would get bogged down again. But they can't all come to the U.S either. Talking about potentially millions upon millions if its encouraged. The U.S is already in debt to the eyeballs. Same with Italy.
I would encourage Mexico to deport, like they already do in significant numbers and I would use trade to warn Mexico that if you allow these people to transit your country, you can kiss goodbye to NAFTA, if you help us out, you can look forward to decent terms. At the same time, I would be establishing refugee centers in these countries. Proper processing points to allow good and decent people to settle in the U.S of which there is sure to be many and to weed out potential criminals
Both need to be done at the same time. There is no other real solution that will appease both sides of U.S politics.
Strangerland
I'm not seeing any comments in this thread that would elicit this comment. Against whom or what comments are you railing with this? I don't see anyone saying the US shouldn't have immigration laws.
That may be true. And I understand that you are using this to justify separating parents from their children. Others of us don't think that should happen, even in the circumstance you just described.
The situation existing isn't the fault of the president, but dealing with it is part of the responsibilities of being president, and as the president takes on that roll willingly, they also have responsibility for their actions. Your comment seems to be excusing the president from separating parents from their kids kids because the president has this crisis to deal with. By that logic, the president would be excluded from responsibility if say, they just decided to kill them all rather than even bothering dealing with them.
Sorry, but the rest of us are not going to excuse the president for responsibility for his own decisions in how to deal with a problem. It's his responsibility to do it correctly. That is the job of a president. He doesn't get ineptitude exceptions.
bass4funk
I agree, so send them back.
No, they didn’t, I remember back in 2014, not a sound from the left, now Trump does it, all hell breaks loose.
No, it’s just once again pure liberal hypocrisy at work.
Oh, this is good, so for example what?
So then why was the left sneaky and showing older video footage of kids locked up ack in 2014. The conditions are not harsh, so what’s the problem?
But that’s not the situation now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/family-separation-migrant-children-detention.html
The shelter, called Casa Padre, is a world all its own, much of it invisible to outsiders. The few windows are covered in black mesh; in the parking lot, yellow-painted wooden barricades read, “Keep Out.”
Inside, it is clean, massive and brightly lit. Not far from the entrance, there is a large mural of President Trump, an American flag and the White House, with a quote from Mr. Trump: “Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.”
A team of 48 medical staff and three on-call physicians provide medical services. X-rays and laboratory work are done in-house. The children receive classroom instruction for six hours a day Monday through Friday, and outdoor play time for two hours a day.
The building no longer resembles a Walmart. The interior has been redesigned, with walls and hallways constructed to create bedrooms, classrooms and other spaces. The mural featuring the president is one of many; one painting depicts former President John F. Kennedy with his words, “Ask not what your country can do for you,” in English and in Spanish.
No, the plan was pure deterrence, no one wants to see family split up, but if you can help to make sure that people don’t get the idea of trying to attempt this, then it’s a cost well worth it.
Well, it is and it isn’t, these kids are now into that a facility then where they were back in 2014.
Well, the left will try and spin that and the fact of the matter is no one is being hurt, yes it is uncomfortable and yes it is very unpleasant to see even for myself as a parent, but the law is the law and you cannot make exceptions and the lawyer has always been there, but it was never enforced and now that it is forced the left are coming unglued, I’m sorry but I have no pity for the left.
Strangerland
I don't really see that there is an argument on this. The US has the legal right to do what they are doing. The people have the right to decide whether they want to be associated with these actions during the election in November. The Republicans have to decide whether they want to continue this behavior which is detested even by a large number of their own party, or whether they want to focus on the wishes of a vehement small portion of the electorate.
nishikat
Spin what? Look at the pics of children put in cages like animals waiting to be put down. Even Franklin Graham thinks what Trump is doing is bad.
...Reagan inked 3M greencard amnesty
oldman_13
It truly is heartbreaking seeing these kids separated from their parents and stuck in these camps behind fences like caged animals.
The kids never asked for nor deserved this kind of treatment.
nishikat
Trump followers think it's perfectly fine.
bass4funk
I agree, but this needs to stop, this is absolutely crazy! The Democrats have an opportunity to meet with the president head on, but they don’t want to end chain migration, they don’t want to end the visa lottery program, they don’t want to get the president funding for his wall, but in order to hold the line they would rather allow kids to come in and the Republicans are not going to stand for that these are laws on the books but they were never enforced and now they’re being enforced.
At the same time, what kind of parent would allow that the child to go anywhere without them especially till foreign country? So there’s enough blame to go around but the parents and the Democrats have to take some responsibility for this as well and even Trump needs to take responsibility to his base, so this is a giant cluster.......
SuperLib
You support a policy that intentionally targets children.
That’s the man you’ve become.
nishikat
No, that's being anti-Trump and Liberal. Trump is for putting these kids in cages and all Trump follower must agree or they are Liberals. All Trump followers see these kids as pieces of trash and they think they should treated like rats in a trash can.
Strangerland
Reminds me of the wife-beater's logic:
"Woman, you if you don't want me to hit you, you need to stop being a b$#h. I could have hit you all along, but now you've really pushed me to it. This is all your fault.*"
bass4funk
No, I support enforced border control and zero tolerence. That’s the man I have always been.
Strangerland
And you also support separating children from their wives as a means of political pressure to enforce border control. Right?
Attilathehungry
Well, now that we have all had a cathartic moment and are (hopefully) done casting aspersions at each other, can we move on to solutions?
Should they just be released in hopes of, someday, returning for their immigration hearing?
Should they just be rounded up, given a sandwich and bottle of water, and returned to the Mexican side of the border?
Should they be jailed together until their status is determined? This was the policy up until the 90s, when politicians were fearful of the harm children may suffer by being in prison with their parents. Hence the current policy of separation.
Other answer?
nishikat
The Trump wall is a failure. Trump is a failure and now he is caging kids. Reagan is a failure because he inked 3M greencard amnesty. No Liberals here.
How is that a problem? are dads shanking their own kids?
Strangerland
Other answer: The Republican party should figure out a way to not separate these kids from their parents, while still enforcing border protection.
You guys act as if this is something new, and has never been done before.
As for how to do it, well that's the party in charge's responsibility. The opposition is there to oppose, not to rule.
bass4funk
To a certain degree, if Dems can play dirty and use politics for political gain, so can the GOP, it would be different if the kids were tortured, but they are not, but if the Dems wouldn’t be so resistent and selfish and would meet the President in the middle and Schumer would allow his 10 fellow Dems to vote with the GOP on a compromise immigration bill, we can end this, but for now, I’m ok with the Ted Cruz bill to fix this situation
Strangerland
Well this is the first time you're mentioning that you only support it to a certain point. What is that point? At which point do you stop supporting the separation of parents from their children.
"If that damn woman would stop being such a b!#$h, I would stop hitting her"
Mate, the Republicans hold all three horses. Any actions by them are their own responsibility. The Democrats literally have zero power in this.
SuperLib
And you also support intentiinally putting children in traumatic conditions so you can extract concessions in politics.
Don’t forget that.
Attilathehungry
Superlib; the conditions are probably the best these kids have ever experienced. Temporary separation from their parents is not such a big deal while they are being processed.
And again, the ultimate fault lies with the PARENTS. It was their choice to attempt to enter the US illegally. They should be grateful that they aren't just turned around with a kick in the ass and told to go home.
bass4funk
How many times do we have to go around this? I am for enforced immigration, you have to come in legally, if you don’t then you are subject to the laws of this country and now are being enforced and if you don’t like it then don’t come to this country. I really could care less if liberals don’t like conservatives ceiling on the issue, Obama did it and no out rage, now Trump does it complete out rage, then it Democrats don’t like it they can meet with trump in the middle and fix it and both sides can get something they want and legalize 800,000 illegals and Trump gets an end to the chain migration and the visa lottery and funding for the wall.
Unfortunately, that is not true in order to come up with a comprehensive immigration bill, sadly the Republicans need to Democrats and for some odd reason Chuck Schumer is not along his 10 disciple Democrats to vote on a bill
bass4funk
I’m sorry, you’re not getting a trap live tear for me, if the Democrats would secure the borders and if they wouldn’t allow for mass illegal entry into this country and if they would uphold the rule of law in to discourage illegals from entering this country I would applaud them, but they won’t. I care about the safety of Americans and American children and yes, I do care about the safety of these children but if you don’t want to be separate from your children don’t come, but since these children are treated well at the facilities, I’m not worried. They are better off in this situation then they would be trekking through the heart and unforgiving desert.
Don’t forget that
Blacklabel
Chuck Schumer, you say?
Chuck Schumer in 2009: Illegal Immigration is wrong, plain and simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdAyn89hFIo
Americans just wont accept legal immigration if the feel the govt is doing nothing about illegal immigration.
Illegals do not have the same rights as legals, etc.
Let me guess, he has "evolved" or something and his current position has nothing to do with who is President or scoring partisan political points?
Blacklabel
dont forget their parents brought them to our country to allow that to happen, so they are complicit (to use a liberal favorite word)
Strangerland
You're right, and as they sit in jail separated from their children, I bet they feel horrible for it. I would.
But that said, that doesn't somehow remove the administration from responsibility for making the decision to separate them from their children. The parents made the decision to try to get into the US, and they have responsibility for that decision, and will have to pay the price for it. The US made the decision that they are going to deal with such people by separating them from their children. The US has the right to deal with its sovereign borders in any way they see fit. But on that same note, everyone everywhere, thanks to the internet, has the ability to criticize that as they see fit. Which is what is happening.
The Trump administration does not have to change their actions on this. They can do as they see fit, within the bounds of the law, to protect their borders. If the voters are ok with their country being one to rip apart parents and children, the Trump administration will see no adverse effect from these behaviors. If the voters are not ok with that, they will tell the administration at the polls. The rest of us have no say in the matter, so we can only sit back and see what Americans decide what their beliefs are, how they want to define themselves as a nation, and where they think base levels of decency lie.
Blacklabel
There shouldnt have to be "pressure" to force Congress to have a desire to enforce the laws that Congress passed. Enforce the laws as written and as passed by Congress.
elephant200
Trump is scrapping the foundation of United States and that is 'Humanity'! The awkward image lead people to think twice who they were dealing with. Anyway uncle Trump carry on your good work, Moscow is praising you and you will be honoured in Kremilin!
Strangerland
A healthy democracy not only allows for pressure on the government by the people, it requires it in order to improve and become stronger.
Strangerland
Probably. But this will definitely come back up around election time.
SuperLib
Don’t forget that you support changes so that we can target children and put them in traumatic situations with the goal of getting your political rival to meet your demands.
Make sure you don’t forget that. Maybe if they cry more you can get more from Democrats.
rainyday
The depravity of the Trump administration is disgusting to watch. Gratuitously caging children? You people are sick.
Thank god those countries aren't like America under Trump.
Blacklabel
so what do we call Obama when he caged children? And what was his motivation for doing so?
rainyday
This article is about Trump caging children, not Obama. Trump is abusing small children. He is a sick, twisted monster and so is anyone who defends this.
Strangerland
I call that decision by his administration as pretty despicable. I'd like to know who ordered that.
It definitely does not excuse the actions of the current administration. What was that your mom said about two wrongs?
bass4funk
But many of us feel the same way about how the Democrats in a state like my state where they allow open borders and people to come in anytime, anywhere. My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!
jcapan
A distraction? A rhetorical tool -- "look hypocrties" -- in lieu of focusing on present problems. The most glaring of which is children being traumatized and held hostage in order to advance xenophobic legislation and preserve the fatherland.
This blinkered partisan reaction always drives me nuts. Who has power now, who is doing wrong now. Fools bleating out Hillary or Obama or Bush like they have Tourette's might make you feel better as your cheer on cages and camps. But in the long run, your grandkids will be reading about Americans who enabled this monstrous behavior. By that time, you'll have revised your thinking as it'll no longer be acceptable to say such things in polite company. It'll sound like people who say things like, you know, those McCarthyites or Klan members or Puritans burning witches at the stake--they had it right at the time. Oh, that's right, why do we never hear things like that.
Yeah, son, when I was a young man I cheered on President Trump as he interned small children, whose anguish failed to move him or us into being decent human beings. That is my proudest moment.
Moderator
Readers, Obama is not relevant to this particular discussion. The topic is about President Trump's policy.
SuperLib
And because of this you decided it’s OK to target children?
Are there any other situations in your life when you felt intentionally harming children was justified....or just this?
rainyday
So? Comment about that on articles about sanctuary states, this has nothing to do with that. This is an article about children literally being torn from their mothers and put into cages. You don't have to support sanctuary cities to condemn that.
viking68
The horror. Being human is a sickness.
Your state has always been known for its Hispanic history and what that brings, gangs, poor people, farm workers, great food. It isn't all white, and it isn't all Hispanics. You see every ethnicity.
In the early days, the farms were completely dependent on migrant workers, and without the farms and migrants, your state would be half of what it is.
Even the biggest and most well known cities there are named using Spanish, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco.
Strangerland
And if you’re lucky the voters will think that the law overrides basic human decency.
rainyday
So you are vilifying little kids now? What is wrong with you?
rainyday
No, you misunderstood. I wasn't asking you to further vilify the little girl and her family, I was asking you to explain what is wrong with you.
smithinjapan
Trump's Nazi policies are coming to fruition. Funny to watch him -- off-spring of immigrants, and Kirstjen, also of immigrants, saying that "It is not our policy! It is not policy. Period." then turning around and saying they must defend their policy. Trump supporters, already proven to bend over backwards to outdo anyone in stupidity, just nod, drool, and support the constant 180s 100%.
Attilathehungry
Mark Steyn called it right, it is nothing more than the sentimentalization of public policy. As usual, Godwin's Law comes into play as can be seen by smith's post.
If you want the law to change, you will have your chance in November. Lobby your member of Congress, but be sure to also offer a real and realistic option other than "nazis!" or "heartless b.stards" or "child abusers". Those are unlikely to work very well at convincing the other side that you are right. Not great tools of persuasion folks.
smithinjapan
bass4funk: "My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!"
Chris Tucker comments on this between poop eater grins; saying how much of a shame it is that once beautiful, white gated communities are unrecognisable now with ethnic minorities in them, and what a shame that is. Well done, bass!
rainyday
The law requires none of this. This is a discretionary policy.
smithinjapan
Attilathehungry: "Mark Steyn called it right, it is nothing more than the sentimentalization of public policy. As usual, Godwin's Law comes into play as can be seen by smith's post."
If that's the case, why is Trump saying the Democrats created this "policy", then saying there is no policy, it's not theirs, but they must absolutely defend (a policy that doesn't exist)?
Luddite
You can't justify Trump's actions. It is not acceptable to separate children from their parents in this way, it is not acceptable to put children in prisons and cages, it is not acceptable to pretend this isn't happening.
rainyday
Nobody ignored the laws, they just enforced them in a way that did not involve child abuse. Trump has chosen the child abuse route, a move you support.
Attilathehungry
If anyone is actually interested in the facts of child detention, you need to study a bit of history. A quarter century ago, the Supreme Court mandated the conditions required in the Flores v. Reno(1997) case.
Briefly;
"The settlement calls on Federal authorities to treat “all minors with dignity, respect and special concern for their particular vulnerability as minors. The agreement establishes minimum standards for initial detention and a policy favoring release of minors. It also requires that children who remain in federal custody be placed in the least restrictive environment and mandates provision of information, treatment and services."
The current policy followed is consistent with this ruling. No Nazi camps, no barbed wire cages, no useless tugging at the heartstrings. It is not a new policy.
rainyday
The policy at issue in that case is completely different from the current one. That policy specifically applied to children who had arrived without family members and the issue was whether or not those who did not have family they could be released into the custody of could be detained. The current policy is about children who arrive WITH family members and are separated from them.
It really tells us nothing useful about the current situation. Go back to the legal history books.
elephant200
Praise Trump praise uncle Trump! He is doing everything to undermine America's long time tradition on humanity! He is doing things to scrap America's image and he has alot of supporters! U.S. has tradition of welcome and home of immmigrants no matter legal or illegal and their children!
During the end of Vietnam war, we saw the US airforce C-5Agalaxy the massive cargo plane flying children ,babies those Vietnamese orphans out of the falling Saigon to U.S. Wow that was a big image promotion of America even they were defeated by communists! You won't see this again any any more! What you will see is awkward babies crying!
Well done uncle Trump!
Attilathehungry
Rainy; my point was that the conditions the children are held in are NOT poor. They are fed, clothed, educated, and cared for by medical staff. That was the point of Flores, to ensure that the kids are treated well.
The current situation is a problem because the number of families who enter the US illegally is skyrocketing. Traditionally, single men and women were the majority of offenders. However, that has changed recently and the system does not have enough space to properly house them. There ARE facilities available to house families together, but they are maxed out. So, other arrangements have to be made. The only choices are: separate the families, or release them. Stats show that those released simply disappear into the vastness of America, very few actually show up for their hearings before a judge.
The criminal prosecution of border crossers is not new. The style of border crossers (full families as opposed to singles) is.
rainyday
Then why refer to a 20 year old judgment as evidence of that? The facts on the ground today are much more relevant. Pictures that look like scenes from Schindler's List hardly suggest
They are also being held in dog kennels. Nobody is saying they are being starved, they are saying it is fundamentally cruel to take children as young as infants away from their parents when there is no pressing need to do so.
The point in Flores was whether or not the policy in that case violated the 5th amendment's due process clause, something that isn't at issue now.
The policy is clearly new, this wasn't happening until Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the new policy. If you support the policy, argue in favor of its merits rather than obfuscating the facts, it is not at all convincing.
Attilathehungry
Rainy, enough of the cheap Nazi allusions. They don't help the conversation at all.
As I said, THERE ARE NO OPTIONS. There are no facilities available for families to be detained together. They are all full. Full. Means no room. These are temporary options that are better than anyone can imagine.
Dog kennels? Again, enough of the hyperbole. Fed, clothed, educated, given exercise, cared for by doctors.
rainyday
Surely you man enough with the cheap Nazi policies? I didn't use the "N" word, but these scenes look exactly like those in Schindler's List, except in color. Don't like the comparison? Then don't invite it with actions that elicit it.
Sure there are options, putting it in all caps doesn't change that. 6 months ago they weren't doing this and the world didn't end, so obviously not doing it is an option.
Not hyperbole. The place looks virtually identical to the kennel I used to leave my dog at when I'd go on family trips.
So you'd be comfortable with your kids being thrown in there?
Alex80
Some people shouldn't try to compare Italy's current situation with the U.S. of Donald Trump. Italy will never separate children from their parents. Italy will never put the children in a cage, that would be considered absolutely inconceivable. After that in the past 4/5 years Italy accepted unconditionally the arrive of almost 700,000 illegal migrants arrived by sea, while the rest of Europe CLOSED their borders (see Austria, France, Spain, etc.), the current Italian government closed the ports to foreign NGOs boats that bring thousands of migrants ONLY to Italy, to force the rest of Europe to share the burder of this huge problem. Finally, the EU is starting to listen to Italy, admitting it abandoned us, despite Macron and Sanchez being the most hypocrites I ever saw, with Macron calling Italy "irresponsible and cynic" while the French keep their borders closed, and they push back to Italy by violence all the French speaking migrants who from Ventimiglia want to go to France, where many of them have their families. Italy had also offered to the Acquarius to let all pregnant women, sick people and children (who are traveling alone, without any parent) land to Italy, but the Acquarius didn't accept the proposal. Apparently their policy is "Everyone or nobody" and this is absurd. In these same days Italy accepted other 2,000 migrants, rescued by Italian Guard Coast.
Also the Us Navy Trenton rescued 42 migrants, and try to imagine who was forced to accept them, after the Americans dumped 12 corpses in the sea? Italy, of course. They landed to Lampedusa, and the same it will happen with other 500 migrants. Plus, remember that most of these migrants are not families, women and children, but men in their 20s. So, please, don't even try to compare the U.S. to Italy.
So, while the media are so focused on the Acquarius case, in a couple of days Italian Guard Coast already rescued and brought to Italy almost 3,000 migrants. It's so weird, but the foreign NGOs are all EMPTY since Italy closed to them her ports. Really WEIRD. Again, DON'T compare the U.S. to Italy.
Strangerland
How about we deal with the situation now, rather than going into things from 25 years ago?
We have kids being kept in cages, away from their parents. This is going on right now in America.
Attilathehungry
We also have more families than ever before crossing illegally. There are no facilities to house them together. So what are your solutions stranger and/or rain? That's what it boils down to. That is my frustration to be honest. Lots of people reacting emotionally, but none have any serious proposals as to what to do to ameliorate the situation.
As for if they were my kids, I will say this. IF I were to attempt to enter another country illegally with my family, and that country put my kids in a safe and clean environment with proper food/medical care/safety, I would be grateful. I wouldn't expect them to put us up together at the local Holiday Inn. I broke the law knowingly, and there are consequences to that.
viking68
Because the Trump administration is denying entry for asylum seekers, so asylum seekers are entering illegally.
There is no change in the number of families entering the U.S.
The other fallacy (part of your skyrocketing statistics) is that smugglers are using children to enter the country and escape incarceration. The number of people doing that is 6 in 10,000, and that hasn't changed.
The statistical methods to measure immigration are being manipulated to produce a skyrocket effect. The only change is a slow change to normal immigration after immigration slowed following Trump getting put in office.
Trump and co are too dumb to keep the lies going.
This is all about deterrence, which is criminal and unethical.
The people still supporting Trump on this should be ashamed.
Strangerland
And yet, they aren't doing this in other countries, nor have other administrations been doing it, and for that matter, this administration was not doing it until recently.
All your comment really says is 'we think no options are better than keeping kids away from their parents'.
rainyday
I'll leave you to reply to Viking's debunking of that claim.
The reason for the lack of facilities is that the government is locking up people it did not previously lock up. My solution? Stop locking them up.
Observe my emotion-free response: The administration implemented a change in policy that it knew would result in an explosion of people, including children, being detained and families broken apart. It did nothing to ensure that facilities were available for this 100% predictable (and in fact intended) consequence prior to making that change. This level of negligence is beyond the pale. Its not up to me or any other commenters on here to come up with solutions to this mess that is entirely of the Trump administration's own making. This is bad policy, badly executed. Even if you want to shut down the borders completely there is no defending this policy or the way it has been implemented. It is a disaster from start to finish, regardless of whether or not you have any feelings of empathy for the people being subjected to it.
My question perhaps unfairly put you on the spot, but all the same I highly doubt that if you had just had your crying kids ripped from your arms and put into a cage you would be thanking the people who did the ripping.
Attilathehungry
The obvious answer is that they seek asylum in Mexico. They share a common language, culture, and it is closer to their homes for when they return. That may be the best option of all. The US has no obligation to harbor these people who crossed one safe country to try to enter the US. At that point, they stopped being asylum seekers and became economic migrants, which is a different thing entirely.
rainyday
That isn't actually an answer to the questions you posed and tells us nothing about what the US policy on child separations should be.
Attilathehungry
I think there are 3 questions here;
Are the children well cared for?
What should happen to families who cross the border illegally?
What options do those families have?
To answer: the first question is "yes". They are well cared for. There is no evidence to the contrary.
The second question is: they should be kept together IF there is space in facilities. If there is no space, they get separated. There is no space available due to the huge numbers crossing now. So the kids are put into temporary facilities. Not ideal, but better than sleeping among the cacti and snakes of the Nogales Desert.
The third question, see below. They should seek asylum in their first country of refuge, which is Mexico. Travelling across Mexico to get to the US shows that they are not real asylum seekers, but are taking advantage of the situation to try to get into the US illegally. Genuine asylum seekers, fleeing in fear of their lives, would stop as soon as they were safe. And they are safe in Mexico.
kurisupisu
While I have upmost sympathy for people attempting a new start in life, I have no sympathy for those that try to evade the system and then suffer the consequences.
Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the penalties.
However poor, an application for asylum to the US is possible.The US still accepts thousands of people from all over the world each year.
Illegal crossing doesn’t help anyone’s case.
The news of crying toddlers on CNN is a real tear jerker but it will quickly show that the US is not a soft touch anymore.
As one that has fenced a few times with immigration in Japan, I have yet to break the law here-that is why I could enter, remain and have a fairly normal life here....
viking68
How to Mislead with Statistics, DHS Secretary Nielson Edition:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/06/18/how-to-mislead-with-statistics-dhs-secretary-nielsen-edition/?utm_term=.2bb93c1a233d
rainyday
Again, these questions do not tell us much about what the policy should be on family separations.
Logically the question to start with is "Should we go back to the previous system of releasing families pending judicial proceedings, or should we continue with the new policy?"
The cost of the first is that a lot of people don't show up for their hearings and basically stay in the country illegally if/until they are caught. So it is a weaker way of cracking down on immigration but is also way less draconian on families. The cost of the second one is the obvious cruelty of tearing children away from their parents and warehousing them in cages, though it will probably have a deterrent effect which will reduce immigration (its intended effect at least).
If you want to come up with some cost/benefit analysis that favors the new policy then do so. Pretending everything is fine because the caged kids are given adequate food and medicine is just disingenuous.
Strangerland
I think that the American public thinks your three questions are not as relevant as the fact that the Trump administration is ripping children apart from their parents, and keeping them in cages.
nishikat
Really?
Attilathehungry
Hi, thanks for the direct answer. From what I read, upwards of 90% of those seeking asylum never appeared at their court dates, and simply joined the millions of others who are already illegally in the US. Kind of makes their claim of asylum a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? True claimants would eagerly await their day in court. true claimants would also claim that status in the first country they entered (Mexico).
This policy also trumpets to the world at large that if you can bring your kids with you to the US to act as some sort of moral shield, you will be let go. This is a horrid precedent to set.
So, in light of that, claimants are detained until their status can be determined. During that detention, it is sometimes necessary for families to be separated. Sad, but necessary. Given that the vast majority of asylum seekers are in reality economic migrants, no-one can be blamed but themselves.
Strangerland
This kind of behavior worked well for the Republicans in the last election. They went on for eight years saying stuff like that, and won the presidency. So I think that actually they are good tools of persuasion.
Strangerland
And yet, somehow wasn't necessary until just recently.
I think maybe you are misunderstanding the word 'necessary'.
nishikat
Really? Are they running out of room? What's going on specifically?
So, which is it? This or lack of family cells?
Really? Please entertain us with some statistics.
Good point. Net immigration is reversing. But Trump keeps saying millions and millions of Mexicans are coming over the border on a yearly basis. Why is that?
Texas A&M Aggie
President Trump is enforcing U.S. law that was enacted in 1997. It is the job of U.S. politicians to change that law.
nishikat
No, it is in Trump's control. Or lack thereof, like no wall. Illegal immigrants are walking all over Trump and Trump is too weak to do anything about it. Trump failed to build his wall.
Strangerland
And it's the job of the people to choose politicians who will create and/or enforce laws that the public feels fit the morality of the country.
u_s__reamer
Too bad Max Eisenhardt aka Erik (Magnus) Lehnsherr, otherwise known by the soubriquet "Magneto" is a fictional character. He knew from his own childhood that separating children from their parents is not a policy but simple child abuse and he would have just loved to rearrange all those cages and chain-link fences! Trump, like his dead-ringer character, the obnoxious Senator Robert Kelly, needs to be taught a lesson, too, and this outrage against innocent children may likewise mutate Trump's standing in the world, reducing him to a quivering orange blob and leading to his well-deserved comeuppance.
SuperLib
I see there is still lots of support from Trump fans for targeting children. If you can maximize their pain then maybe you can get a better deal for yourselves. Because this whole thing was designed to cause them pain.
Moderator
Readers, this discussion is now closed.