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As outrage grows over children, Trump says he will not let U.S. become 'migrant camp'

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By Lisa Lambert and Makini Brice

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Democrats are trying to use the immigration issue to divert from the IG report hearings.

-23 ( +4 / -27 )

Earlier, Trump said on Twitter that people should be wary of what he called the cultural change caused by migrants in Europe. He cited immigration for causing political instability in Germany and said inaccurately that crime in Germany was "way up."

Contrary to Trump's assertion, the crime rate in Germany is at its lowest point in more than 30 years, according to figures reported by Germany's internal ministry last month.

Trump and the white supremacists he surrounds himself with are incapable of telling the truth. They live in a fog of constant self-delusion to justify their hatred for everyone who doesn't look like themselves.

This is what Trump voters voted for. It's time for them to show us if they're going to meekly let the country fall into fascism, or if they're going to resist.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Crime figures released by German government show a 5.6% decrease in crimes.

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2018/05/pks-und-pmk-2017.html

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Trump and the white supremacists he surrounds himself with are incapable of telling the truth.

Uh-oh....lol, who are these fictitious White Suupremacists? Schumer and his band of heartless Democrats that won’t vote on a solid and proper immigration bill that will block these loopholes.

They live in a fog of constant self-delusion to justify their hatred for everyone who doesn't look like themselves.

No, they don’t want to have a nation that is dumping ground for anyone regardless of checkered pass, the Democrats created this monster and now they want to blame the GOP because they are more worried about votes than the actual rule of law and if they really cared for these kids (which I don’t believe so a second) they would discourage illegals to enter the country illegally.

This is what Trump voters voted for.

An end to chain migration, an end to the visa lottery program, an end to open borders and funding for a wall.

It's time for them to show us if they're going to meekly let the country fall into fascism, or if they're going to resist.

What about The Democrats? They have done enough damage for years allowing our country to retain open borders, what will they do? Bully now changed uphold the laws, which I doubt or will they insist to for their allow mass illegal immigration to continue.

-19 ( +5 / -24 )

Trump changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

There seems to be a very large number who have zero tolerance to Trump's detention policy.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

The wall in rural areas is foolish. A wall in populated areas makes sense and has been proven to work around the world.

Parents and children from illegal immigrants or anyone overstaying their visa should be housed together until being deported, unless the parent is being held for a crime besides immigration.

At deportation, biometrics should be taken and those people placed on a NEVER ALLOWED list for entry into the USA. This would apply to the children too, so the parents need to understand their violation would prevent their children from any future in the USA.

If someone is caught inside the USA after previously being deported, I don't have a good answer, but catch and release is NOT an option.

Perhaps Japan will accept them? They need workers, right?

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"Trump administration officials, from Sessions to White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, have said immigrant families are being separated because it’s the law – what law are they referring to?"

"They’re referring to Title 8 of U.S. Code 1325 and 1326. Federal district courts in border cities like McAllen, Texas, are now packed with migrants charged with 1325, illegal entry, a misdemeanor, or 1326, illegal reentry, a felony. The misdemeanor charge carries a potential six-month sentence, but most people are sentenced to time served. The felony charge carries a sentence of up to two years."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-immigration-families-border-wall-20180616-htmlstory.html

8 ( +8 / -0 )

"The United States will not be a migrant camp, and it will not be a refugee holding facility. It won't be. You look at what's happening in Europe, you look at what's happening in other places - we can't allow that to happen to the United States, not on my watch," Trump said at the White House while announcing an unrelated policy.

Trump fails to understand the cause of much of the European immigrant problem was in large part caused by America wars in the Middle East.

12 ( +15 / -3 )

Bass: An end to chain migration, an end to the visa lottery program, an end to open borders and funding for a wall.

Well, at least we have a list of demands. Give in, and they will release the children.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Trump changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children

No, what he wants to do is prevent more illegal migration, if you don’t want your children in the country, then don’t send them or you don’t have to worry about being separated from your kids, but if you break the law you will be prosecuted according to the law.

Trump fails to understand the cause of much of the European immigrant problem was in large part caused by America wars in the Middle East.

Not entirely, as in German case or in Sweden’s case but even Denmark’s case

-19 ( +1 / -20 )

That is simply not true

So you are saying the official German government document is not true and correct? It's the one source above all the rest. You are actually doubting the Federal Ministry of the Interior, Building and Community. The minister is Horst Seehofer.

Did you even read it?

https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2018/05/pks-und-pmk-2017.html

From there you can read or download the police agency document. So crime rates like for non-German suspects are down 22.8%. The crime rate for immigrants is down 4.1%.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

I never, ever thought I would say this, but I am ashamed to be an American at this point in our history, and I am helpless to do anything about it.

It's no surprise that a majority of Republicans support this policy. The party is an empty shell of racists and zealots manipulated by the wealthy.  That there is no bottom to their evil is and was obvious to see.  The GOP base isn't worth trying to save or appeal to anymore. We have to try and appeal to independents and those who are persuadable.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Well, at least we have a list of demands. Give in, and they will release the children.

Trump's America - taking children hostages. Classy.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

Trump changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children

No, what he wants to do is prevent more illegal migration

And in wanting to prevent more illegal immigration, he changed the process to intentionally inflict harm on children.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

That's not even on by independent free thinking politically free desk. I don't fit into your label

Yes and the mad dash for the left wing exit.

I never, ever thought I would say this, but I am ashamed to be an American at this point in our history, and I am helpless to do anything about it.

I was ashamed for a long time to be an American to live in the state and in the country that allows considered illegal immigration and doesn’t care about its citizens in puts illegals over the rule of law and over immigrants they have sold all of the rules and laws of our country and want to be citizens in the proper way.

It's no surprise that a majority of Republicans support this policy. The party is an empty shell of racists and zealots manipulated by the wealthy.  

What a bunch of garbage, Democrats are some of the most racist people, they’re racist policies are the reasons why we are in the situation they keep Latinos down they keep blacks down they help and she will crimes in Liberally controlled cities. The most wealthiest of liberals with all the power and money that they have, don’t lift a single finger to help try to make the situation better.

That there is no bottom to their evil is and was obvious to see.  The GOP base isn't worth trying to save or appeal to anymore. We have to try and appeal to independents and those who are persuadable.

That depends, the way the liberals and Democrats are acting, they’re pushing more and more independence our way and that is the reason why the polls and gap are closing between the Democrats and Republicans, Democrats should be leading miles away and do not and that’s not a good thing, but they want to keep acting like fools so let them

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

The parents who chose to bring their children knowing what the policy is, are the ones who are harming the children. Its not like this is a surprise action at the border.

-7 ( +7 / -14 )

Let's be clear. Trump could chain those kids up and send them to GITMO until they're 18 and his most loyal supporters would be down with that too. Authoritarian followers will do anything that daddy says.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Of course he won't. He's too busy letting America become the leading child abuser with the horrific treatment of migrant children.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-colleen-kraft-separating-families-at-border-form-of-child-abuse/

The man is pond life.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Independents are the happiest they have been since 2005 with the direction of the country. Might want to try again, or scream about something a little louder while at the same time obstructing the solution.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

The parents who chose to bring their children knowing what the policy is, are the ones who are harming the children.

Then you should continue separating children from their parents. Let the voters decide if they agree with these actions or not.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

but I know Germany, I was there two months ago and I grew up that half of my life so I know the politics thing I know the parents of immigration and I see a lot of similarities between that country and the US

What do you mean? I have a house in Germany. It's a great place. And how is Japan?

country, then don’t send them or you don’t have to worry about being separated from your kids, 

Even FOX News people say this is bad.

they don’t want to have a nation that is dumping ground

Reagan signed 3M illegal amnesty and Reagan failed on the border too just like Trump is failing on the wall.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

If this kind of policy continues, Trump will create a generation of potential terrorists from Central and South America. Separating kids from their parents, even for a short time, will make those parents and kids crazy with fear and, later, anger.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

but I know Germany, I was there two months ago and I grew up that half of my life so I know the politics thing I know the parents of immigration and I see a lot of similarities between that country and the US

I don't believe you were because the timing of your posts would also change.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

It is pretty clear that the policy will remain in place. Liberals totally ignoring the ACLU report that children were actually abused from 2009-2014 because it doesnt fit the timeline or narrative.

My friend was separated from his child and family for almost a year during his application for a legal visa. But illegals dont have to be separated or inconvenienced in any way? Dont want to hear anything about "cages" either, these are the same places as in 2014, proven by pictures that we have been shown by Twitter liberals when they thought it wa Trump doing it.

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

So why arent all these kids mad at Obama when he did the same thing to their older brothers?

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

Anyone who regrets their decision to illegally enter the country instead of following the rules should be fingerprinted, given their kids back and issued a bus ticket back to their country of citizenship as a one time gesture of good will. Family is then reunited and they can go about their lives.

-12 ( +3 / -15 )

It is pretty clear that the policy will remain in place.

Good, and the voters can decide if they agree with this come November.

So why arent all these kids mad at Obama when he did the same thing to their older brothers?

And once again you are talking as if we read the same right-wing loony websites you do, and have some clue about which reality you are twisting into this talking point. (Hint: we don't).

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Bass: No, what he wants to do is prevent more illegal migration

By intentionally inflicting harm on innocent children. And you support that.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Anyone who regrets their decision to illegally enter the country instead of following the rules should be fingerprinted, given their kids back and issued a bus ticket back to their country of citizenship as a one time gesture of good will. Family is then reunited and they can go about their lives.

You're right! In this black and white world we live in, where everything is either A or B, with nothing in between, you speak the truth! Thank god we don't live in a world with nuanced situations that have an option C or D even.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Black: It is pretty clear that the policy will remain in place..

You also support intentionally inflicting harm on children.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

I never said I trusted [Sputnik News]

So why'd you post a link to them?

I think US citizens and especially US citizens along the border have suffered enough psychological pain and damage as well as violence from many illegals

Again, your answer to this purported scourge is to separate kids from their parents. The Trump administration--through Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller--has made it clear that breaking up families is a policy meant to send a message.

Perhaps it would do you good to listen to the sound of young children sobbing uncontrollably, calling out for their mothers and fathers over and over. And a border control agent joking about it.

https://www.propublica.org/article/children-separated-from-parents-border-patrol-cbp-trump-immigration-policy?utm_campaign=sprout&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1529351580

The Trump presidency makes me want to vomit.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

I gave you the links yesterday, you just choose to ignore them. The ACLU did a 6 year report showing abuse of the migrant children during the Obama administration, Pictures of kids in cages are all over the internet from 2014 as are articles about children being detained and separated from their families. Google is your friend. People arent buying that this only started happening when Trump became president, no matter how hard liberals and the media try to push that.

-13 ( +2 / -15 )

So everyone wants to hold Trump accountable for the "harm" and "ripping children from their parents arms".

Any accountability from 2009-2015?

https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-obtains-documents-showing-widespread-abuse-child-immigrants-us-custody

Law students in the International Human Rights Clinic examined a subset of the records obtained. The documents show numerous cases involving federal officials’ verbal, physical and sexual abuse of migrant children; the denial of clean drinking water and adequate food; failure to provide necessary medical care; detention in freezing, unsanitary facilities; and other violations of federal law and policy and international law. The documents provide evidence that U.S. officials were aware of these abuses as they occurred, but failed to properly investigate, much less to remedy, these abuses.

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

People arent buying that this only started happening when Trump became president,

You are correct that kids were separated under Obama as well, which was also abhorrent. But the practice has intensified under Sessions and is being applied to asylum seekers. That is new.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

The U.S. is already a migrant camp in many senses.

It's been that way for hundreds of years, hasn't it?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I know Germany, I was there two months ago and I grew up that half of my life so I know the politics thing I know the parents of immigration and I see a lot of similarities between that country and the US

The political system is very different to the US, so I doubt that.

The only similarity is the US now is edging towards fascism and brutalising people, like Germany did in the 30s.

The world looks on it horror at what's happening. It's not enough.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

3 ( +4 / -1 )

You dont seek asylum by illegally crossing the border then trying to claim asylum when caught. There are specific places you go to claim asylum and certain rules about what is an acceptable reason and what is not.

Its similar to the electoral college, liberals are only outraged about something when it goes against them politically. But never willing to come to the table and work to change the law. So its a perpetual state of outrage, which lost you the 2016 election and will lose you the next one too. Havent seen one Dem yet say they are willing to work together with the administration to find a solution to this.

When you are the minority party due to having no message other than obstruction, thats what happens to you. You have to work with the people in charge and get whatever deal you can. You dont get to decide, as you lost the election.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

I have not seen any links provided that show the Obama administration separated children from parents.

As far as I can tell these actions were started by the Trump administration, with Trump and the Trumpets spreading fake news that the Obama administration was also separating children from their parents.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Does your Google not work? seriously?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

The ACLU did a 6 year report showing abuse of the migrant children during the Obama administration

Where was FOX news and all the white supremacist evangelicals covering this?

Because even people at FOX and lots of Republicans are blasting Trump. The ones who are not blasting him are his cult followers.

Fake news. Just like Trump's wall and his Muslim ban

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Does your Google not work? seriously?

I'm finding nothing that supports your assertion. If that means my google is broken, then so be it. But personally, I have more faith in Google's ability to find a search result, than in your unsupported claims.

And as you yourself seem to have an inability to post a link that supports the argument you are making, I'm assuming that as we've seen so many times in the past when you finally provide a link that you think supports your assertion, the actual circumstances do not support the talking point you've twisted them into.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Blacklabel 

You dont seek asylum by illegally crossing the border then trying to claim asylum when caught. There are specific places you go to claim asylum and certain rules about what is an acceptable reason and what is not.

I don't think so. You only have to put a single foot on any American soil to claim asylum when confronted by police or immigration. Remember when tens of thousands of Cubans risked their live to reach Florida without being detected and once they put a foot on the soil they were home if not so dry.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I get people sometimes get fooled by politicians. but knowingly support someone running concentration camps on kids, in the 21st century! ? the hell?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

America is the richest country in the world. The South American countries are some of the poorest. If we were born there we too would be trying to get into America. America should make more investments in those poor countries.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

How many times has history shown us that once a group of people decide that a particular politician is the saviour of everything they hold dear, then that politician is immune from any kind of criticism?

Every act, no matter how clearly abhorrent to any rational, outside observer, must be defended with clever, patriotic-sounding soundbites and so-called common sense arguments.

Anything is justifiable if it's done in the same of the Leader. Dissenting voices are treacherous.

Doesn't take much imagination to grasp how so many of the horrors of the past eighty years, which we like to think are incomprehensible in this day and age, were allowed to happen....

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Non-profit organization ProPublica release an audio of children after they've been seperated from their parents.

So the new rule is that only people without children can be put in prison? Think of all the innocent children of criminals that are torn from their parents arms crying and traumatized for life. Guess we should let all criminal parents out of jail immediately- for the sake of the children.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Trump is immune from criticism? Or are you talking about a previous President?

How many times has history shown us that once a group of people decide that a particular politician is the saviour of everything they hold dear, then that politician is immune from any kind of criticism?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

@zichi

I'm not sure how much first hand experience you have with the situation in Germany but the official crime statistics do not tell the whole story. The fact that migrant related crime has dropped in 2017 is more a reflection of the fact that the rise in 2016 was always going to be hard to top. The police are not pursuing non-violent crimes like burglaries in the way they were prior to the migrant crisis, and the futility in reporting certain crimes has changed people's reporting behaviour. Certain violent crimes, such as attacks on Jews, are rising year after year.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

M3M3M3

@zichi

I'm not sure how much first hand experience you have with the situation in Germany but the official crime statistics do not tell the whole story.

I will still accept the German government/police report for the official figures showing the lowest crime rates in 30 years which counters the statement made by Trump, and some of his supporters. Did you base your opinion after reading the police report for 2017.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Blacklabel: So everyone wants to hold Trump accountable for the "harm" and "ripping children from their parents arms".

You support intentionally inflicting emotional harm on children in political negotiations.

How do you live with that?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

I place the blame squarely on their parents who brought them to the USA knowing what would happen.

Parents are responsible for their children, Not me, the government or society.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

"Just because your child gets across the border that doesn't mean your child gets to stay" - Hillary Clinton 2014

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

@zichi: America is the richest country in the world. The South American countries are some of the poorest. If we were born there we too would be trying to get into America. America should make more investments in those poor countries.

America is not the richest nation with its $20 trillion debt and tens of trillions in unfunded social welfare liabilities. That said, American businesses do invest billions in Central and South American countries. The problem is not foreign investment or American foreign aid - it’s domestic corruption and Leftist politics. If the American far Left were to be believed, Venezuela should be a socialist utopia today. The fact that it is not does not deter their admiration for its system of government one iota.

Of course no one can blame the proletariat for wanting out of these mostly Leftist dominated hell holes. The Democrat party’s Marxist open borders ideology will only import the poverty and Leftist politics that devastated Latin America to the US. Why would Americans want that devastation for themselves? The deterioration has already begun in pockets of Left dominated sections of America with Detroit and Baltimore’s high murder rates, California’s huge wealth disparities and homelessnes, and Illinois fiscal crisis. It’s doubtful that America will be able to save it’s own peoples future prospects. It’s folly to take on the disaster’s created by other nations as well.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

"Just because your child gets across the border that doesn't mean your child gets to stay" - Hillary Clinton 2014

Not letting them stay and dealing with them in a humane fashion is one thing. Trump puts them in a cage like wild animals in a zoo. He is cruel. Just like he wants to put Muslims in a cage though his proposed Muslim registry. Cruel man. Being humane is one thing. Trump as we see here is something else.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Of course he won't. He's too busy letting America become the leading child abuser with the horrific treatment of migrant children.

The kids are not being beaten or abused. In fact they are better off at the detention center than wandering in the hot desert with Coyotes, drug smugglers, lack of waters and other lack of hygiene facilities. Again, the left can’t say anything, you don’t want to be separated from your kids, don’t send them to a foreign sovereign nation alone.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

The political system is very different to the US, so I doubt that.

Not really, very similar, actually worse.

The only similarity is the US now is edging towards fascism and brutalising people, like Germany did in the 30s.

We had fascism for 8 years and now the left is trying to use it to force us to take in illegals when we are not obligated to.

The world looks on it horror at what's happening. It's not enough.

Some people may see it in one way as you’re putting it in some will see it my way as I’m putting it

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

you don’t want to be separated from your kids, don’t send them to a foreign sovereign nation alone.

That doesn't make sense.

they are better off at the detention center than wandering in the hot desert

They are better off with their parents.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

It is important to note that families who present themselves at official border crossings and claim asylum status are NOT immediately separated. Their claims are either accepted or rejected. In the latter case, they are invited to return to their homes. Only in cases where families try to illegally breach the border are the children separated, as they are in any criminal proceeding.

Not to mention that a case can be made that parents who put their kids through this are abusive, so the kids may be better off in a well run detention center, getting food and medical care, than with parents who drag them across 2000 km of Mexican desert. The idea that the kids are put in "cages" is ridiculous hyperbole, intended to tug emotions while ignoring the important policy questions. Typical radical politics.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Yet their parents chose to endanger them. Took them from their home country and are the direct cause of their current detention in a foreign country, separated from their parents.

They are better off with their parents.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

just a distraction from the release of the data that shows 60,000 of the "DACA kids" actually have arrest records. Plus trying to cover up the IG report testimony in Congress. If Dems actually cared they would work together to change the law.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Headline on Fox News right now:

Years of backlash: How Obama White House sparked outrage over treatment of immigrant kids, and why Trump refueled the controversy.

So Fox News is doing its job to misrepresent.

The play is to compare Obama with Trump in order to justify Trump’s decision. If they can sell it as hypocrisy, then their base is more willing to go along with it as a form of revenge.

From the article:

“It was the practice of the Obama administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children. It is the policy of the Trump administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children,” Kolken said. “I don’t really care which type of abuse or abuser people find more abhorrent, because it is all abuse, and it is all abhorrent.”

In the bubble, you can misrepresent anything you want by leaving out informaion or intentionally omitting context to make two things seem the same.

In this case, they are comparing detention facilities set up during the sudden influx a few years back under Obama. The conditions were bad as everyone was caught off guard by the massive number of people coming across. Once the influx was processed, the temporary centers were shut down, and things went back to normal.

What Trump did was intentionally change what these people are charged with, and he did it with the full intent of inflicting emotional harm on chrildren to extract concessions in the immigration debate. It was calculated. Hurting children was the goal. The victory. The plan.

They are comparing the conditions in a sudden humanitarian crisis to a premeditated act to hurt a child. In order to do that, strip away context and withhold the policy differences, and you get that quote above. Obama hurt kids. Trump hurt kids. See? It’s the same thing.

The heart of the issue is that Trump and his fans are intentionally inflicting harm on children to extract concessions. Don’t let them forget it. Remind them of that every day.

They deserve to live with that shame.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

We had fascism for 8 years and now the left is trying to use it to force us to take in illegals when we are not obligated to.

Reagan with 3M greencard amnesty

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Why is it so hard for people (both Americans and others) to understand that the US has immigration laws, just like all countries do? People can speak about the Statue of Liberty and the good ole' days, but the US never had an open door policy where people where allowed to freely enter at their own discretion.

Pick whatever country you like (or dislike), and I will guarantee you that if you sneak across its border, or enter as a visitor and decide to overstay, you will not be greeted with hugs, kisses and a bouquet of roses when caught. Countries have laws, and for those who only want to follow the laws which suit them best, don't then blame the government for arresting/detaining/removing you.

Mexicans aren't going to the US for asylum. They are going there to work and have a better life. That's not what asylum is for. And you certainly wouldn't be sending all your hard earned money back to the terrible country to supposedly escaped from. So that's a myth.

So what country in South/Central America are they escaping from which is in turmoil? Which ever one it is, why do they purposely pass thru a handful or more of other countries which are not in turmoil just to reach the US to complain about the asylum/immigration process?

These people bring children with them for one simple reason. Because they know if they arrive with a child and claim asylum, and keep their story straight (they all have been coached on what to say and not to say), that they have a better chance of getting in with child than without. The parents use their own children just to obtain their end goal.

None of this is the fault of the US Government, ICE, US Immigration Policy, or the President. It is the fault of any person who decides they will enter the US illegally, overstay illegally, lie/cheat/steal to get what they want.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Nobody talks about the root of the problem. The state of the countries these people are fleeing. If America were to attempt to "fix" these countries, people would be outraged and no doubt the U.S would get bogged down again. But they can't all come to the U.S either. Talking about potentially millions upon millions if its encouraged. The U.S is already in debt to the eyeballs. Same with Italy.

I would encourage Mexico to deport, like they already do in significant numbers and I would use trade to warn Mexico that if you allow these people to transit your country, you can kiss goodbye to NAFTA, if you help us out, you can look forward to decent terms. At the same time, I would be establishing refugee centers in these countries. Proper processing points to allow good and decent people to settle in the U.S of which there is sure to be many and to weed out potential criminals

Both need to be done at the same time. There is no other real solution that will appease both sides of U.S politics.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Why is it so hard for people (both Americans and others) to understand that the US has immigration laws, just like all countries do?

I'm not seeing any comments in this thread that would elicit this comment. Against whom or what comments are you railing with this? I don't see anyone saying the US shouldn't have immigration laws.

These people bring children with them for one simple reason. Because they know if they arrive with a child and claim asylum, and keep their story straight (they all have been coached on what to say and not to say), that they have a better chance of getting in with child than without. The parents use their own children just to obtain their end goal.

That may be true. And I understand that you are using this to justify separating parents from their children. Others of us don't think that should happen, even in the circumstance you just described.

None of this is the fault of the US Government, ICE, US Immigration Policy, or the President.

The situation existing isn't the fault of the president, but dealing with it is part of the responsibilities of being president, and as the president takes on that roll willingly, they also have responsibility for their actions. Your comment seems to be excusing the president from separating parents from their kids kids because the president has this crisis to deal with. By that logic, the president would be excluded from responsibility if say, they just decided to kill them all rather than even bothering dealing with them.

Sorry, but the rest of us are not going to excuse the president for responsibility for his own decisions in how to deal with a problem. It's his responsibility to do it correctly. That is the job of a president. He doesn't get ineptitude exceptions.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

They are better off with their parents.

I agree, so send them back.

Years of backlash: How Obama White House sparked outrage over treatment of immigrant kids, and why Trump refueled the controversy.

So Fox News is doing its job to misrepresent.

No, they didn’t, I remember back in 2014, not a sound from the left, now Trump does it, all hell breaks loose.

The play is to compare Obama with Trump in order to justify Trump’s decision. If they can sell it as hypocrisy, then their base is more willing to go along with it as a form of revenge.

No, it’s just once again pure liberal hypocrisy at work.

From the article:

“It was the practice of the Obama administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children. It is the policy of the Trump administration to abuse refugee children, and refugee mothers with children,” Kolken said. “I don’t really care which type of abuse or abuser people find more abhorrent, because it is all abuse, and it is all abhorrent.”

In the bubble, you can misrepresent anything you want by leaving out informaion or intentionally omitting context to make two things seem the same. 

Oh, this is good, so for example what?

In this case, they are comparing detention facilities set up during the sudden influx a few years back under Obama.

So then why was the left sneaky and showing older video footage of kids locked up ack in 2014. The conditions are not harsh, so what’s the problem?

The conditions were bad as everyone was caught off guard by the massive number of people coming across. Once the influx was processed, the temporary centers were shut down, and things went back to normal.

But that’s not the situation now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/14/us/family-separation-migrant-children-detention.html

The shelter, called Casa Padre, is a world all its own, much of it invisible to outsiders. The few windows are covered in black mesh; in the parking lot, yellow-painted wooden barricades read, “Keep Out.”

Inside, it is clean, massive and brightly lit. Not far from the entrance, there is a large mural of President Trump, an American flag and the White House, with a quote from Mr. Trump: “Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.”

A team of 48 medical staff and three on-call physicians provide medical services. X-rays and laboratory work are done in-house. The children receive classroom instruction for six hours a day Monday through Friday, and outdoor play time for two hours a day.

The building no longer resembles a Walmart. The interior has been redesigned, with walls and hallways constructed to create bedrooms, classrooms and other spaces. The mural featuring the president is one of many; one painting depicts former President John F. Kennedy with his words, “Ask not what your country can do for you,” in English and in Spanish.

What Trump did was intentionally change what these people are charged with, and he did it with the full intent of inflicting emotional harm on chrildren to extract concessions in the immigration debate. It was calculated. Hurting children was the goal. The victory. The plan.

No, the plan was pure deterrence, no one wants to see family split up, but if you can help to make sure that people don’t get the idea of trying to attempt this, then it’s a cost well worth it.

They are comparing the conditions in a sudden humanitarian crisis to a premeditated act to hurt a child. In order to do that, strip away context and withhold the policy differences, and you get that quote above. Obama hurt kids. Trump hurt kids. See? It’s the same thing.

Well, it is and it isn’t, these kids are now into that a facility then where they were back in 2014.

The heart of the issue is that Trump and his fans are intentionally inflicting harm on children to extract concessions. Don’t let them forget it. Remind them of that every day. 

They deserve to live with that shame.

Well, the left will try and spin that and the fact of the matter is no one is being hurt, yes it is uncomfortable and yes it is very unpleasant to see even for myself as a parent, but the law is the law and you cannot make exceptions and the lawyer has always been there, but it was never enforced and now that it is forced the left are coming unglued, I’m sorry but I have no pity for the left.

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

I don't really see that there is an argument on this. The US has the legal right to do what they are doing. The people have the right to decide whether they want to be associated with these actions during the election in November. The Republicans have to decide whether they want to continue this behavior which is detested even by a large number of their own party, or whether they want to focus on the wishes of a vehement small portion of the electorate.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Well, the left will try and spin that

Spin what? Look at the pics of children put in cages like animals waiting to be put down. Even Franklin Graham thinks what Trump is doing is bad.

 but the law is the law and...

...Reagan inked 3M greencard amnesty

7 ( +8 / -1 )

It truly is heartbreaking seeing these kids separated from their parents and stuck in these camps behind fences like caged animals.

The kids never asked for nor deserved this kind of treatment.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The kids never asked for nor deserved this kind of treatment.

Trump followers think it's perfectly fine.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It truly is heartbreaking seeing these kids separated from their parents and stuck in these camps behind fences like caged animals.

The kids never asked for nor deserved this kind of treatment.

I agree, but this needs to stop, this is absolutely crazy! The Democrats have an opportunity to meet with the president head on, but they don’t want to end chain migration, they don’t want to end the visa lottery program, they don’t want to get the president funding for his wall, but in order to hold the line they would rather allow kids to come in and the Republicans are not going to stand for that these are laws on the books but they were never enforced and now they’re being enforced.

At the same time, what kind of parent would allow that the child to go anywhere without them especially till foreign country? So there’s enough blame to go around but the parents and the Democrats have to take some responsibility for this as well and even Trump needs to take responsibility to his base, so this is a giant cluster.......

-11 ( +2 / -13 )

At this point, it's probably only a matter of time before he and his GOP lackeys start leading the rabble in a chorus of "Lock 'em up!"

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Bass: Well, the left will try and spin that and the fact of the matter is no one is being hurt.

You support a policy that intentionally targets children.

That’s the man you’ve become.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

I agree, but this needs to stop, this is absolutely crazy!

No, that's being anti-Trump and Liberal. Trump is for putting these kids in cages and all Trump follower must agree or they are Liberals. All Trump followers see these kids as pieces of trash and they think they should treated like rats in a trash can.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The Democrats have an opportunity to meet with the president head on, but they don’t want to end chain migration, they don’t want to end the visa lottery program, they don’t want to get the president funding for his wall, but in order to hold the line they would rather allow kids to come in and the Republicans are not going to stand for that these are laws on the books but they were never enforced and now they’re being enforced.

Reminds me of the wife-beater's logic:

"Woman, you if you don't want me to hit you, you need to stop being a b$#h. I could have hit you all along, but now you've really pushed me to it. This is all your fault.*"

7 ( +8 / -1 )

You support a policy that intentionally targets children.

That’s the man you’ve become.

No, I support enforced border control and zero tolerence. That’s the man I have always been.

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

No, I support enforced border control and zero tolerence.

And you also support separating children from their wives as a means of political pressure to enforce border control. Right?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Well, now that we have all had a cathartic moment and are (hopefully) done casting aspersions at each other, can we move on to solutions?

Should they just be released in hopes of, someday, returning for their immigration hearing?

Should they just be rounded up, given a sandwich and bottle of water, and returned to the Mexican side of the border?

Should they be jailed together until their status is determined? This was the policy up until the 90s, when politicians were fearful of the harm children may suffer by being in prison with their parents. Hence the current policy of separation.

Other answer?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

No, I support enforced border

The Trump wall is a failure. Trump is a failure and now he is caging kids. Reagan is a failure because he inked 3M greencard amnesty. No Liberals here.

being in prison with their parents. 

How is that a problem? are dads shanking their own kids?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Other answer?

Other answer: The Republican party should figure out a way to not separate these kids from their parents, while still enforcing border protection.

You guys act as if this is something new, and has never been done before.

As for how to do it, well that's the party in charge's responsibility. The opposition is there to oppose, not to rule.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

And you also support separating children from their wives as a means of political pressure to enforce border control. Right?

To a certain degree, if Dems can play dirty and use politics for political gain, so can the GOP, it would be different if the kids were tortured, but they are not, but if the Dems wouldn’t be so resistent and selfish and would meet the President in the middle and Schumer would allow his 10 fellow Dems to vote with the GOP on a compromise immigration bill, we can end this, but for now, I’m ok with the Ted Cruz bill to fix this situation

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

And you also support separating children from their wives as a means of political pressure to enforce border control. Right?

To a certain degree

Well this is the first time you're mentioning that you only support it to a certain point. What is that point? At which point do you stop supporting the separation of parents from their children.

if the Dems wouldn’t be so resistent and selfish and would meet the President in the middle

"If that damn woman would stop being such a b!#$h, I would stop hitting her"

Mate, the Republicans hold all three horses. Any actions by them are their own responsibility. The Democrats literally have zero power in this.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Bass: I support enforced border control and zero tolerence. 

And you also support intentiinally putting children in traumatic conditions so you can extract concessions in politics.

Don’t forget that.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Superlib; the conditions are probably the best these kids have ever experienced. Temporary separation from their parents is not such a big deal while they are being processed.

And again, the ultimate fault lies with the PARENTS. It was their choice to attempt to enter the US illegally. They should be grateful that they aren't just turned around with a kick in the ass and told to go home.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Well this is the first time you're mentioning that you only support it to a certain point. What is that point? At which point do you stop supporting the separation of parents from their children.

How many times do we have to go around this? I am for enforced immigration, you have to come in legally, if you don’t then you are subject to the laws of this country and now are being enforced and if you don’t like it then don’t come to this country. I really could care less if liberals don’t like conservatives ceiling on the issue, Obama did it and no out rage, now Trump does it complete out rage, then it Democrats don’t like it they can meet with trump in the middle and fix it and both sides can get something they want and legalize 800,000 illegals and Trump gets an end to the chain migration and the visa lottery and funding for the wall.

Mate, the Republicans hold all three horses. Any actions by them are their own responsibility. The Democrats literally have zero power in this.

Unfortunately, that is not true in order to come up with a comprehensive immigration bill, sadly the Republicans need to Democrats and for some odd reason Chuck Schumer is not along his 10 disciple Democrats to vote on a bill

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

And you also support intentiinally putting children in traumatic conditions so you can extract concessions in politics. 

I’m sorry, you’re not getting a trap live tear for me, if the Democrats would secure the borders and if they wouldn’t allow for mass illegal entry into this country and if they would uphold the rule of law in to discourage illegals from entering this country I would applaud them, but they won’t. I care about the safety of Americans and American children and yes, I do care about the safety of these children but if you don’t want to be separate from your children don’t come, but since these children are treated well at the facilities, I’m not worried. They are better off in this situation then they would be trekking through the heart and unforgiving desert.

Don’t forget that

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Chuck Schumer, you say?

Chuck Schumer in 2009: Illegal Immigration is wrong, plain and simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdAyn89hFIo

Americans just wont accept legal immigration if the feel the govt is doing nothing about illegal immigration.

Illegals do not have the same rights as legals, etc.

Let me guess, he has "evolved" or something and his current position has nothing to do with who is President or scoring partisan political points?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

dont forget their parents brought them to our country to allow that to happen, so they are complicit (to use a liberal favorite word)

And you also support intentiinally putting children in traumatic conditions so you can extract concessions in politics.

Don’t forget that.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

the ultimate fault lies with the PARENTS.

You're right, and as they sit in jail separated from their children, I bet they feel horrible for it. I would.

But that said, that doesn't somehow remove the administration from responsibility for making the decision to separate them from their children. The parents made the decision to try to get into the US, and they have responsibility for that decision, and will have to pay the price for it. The US made the decision that they are going to deal with such people by separating them from their children. The US has the right to deal with its sovereign borders in any way they see fit. But on that same note, everyone everywhere, thanks to the internet, has the ability to criticize that as they see fit. Which is what is happening.

The Trump administration does not have to change their actions on this. They can do as they see fit, within the bounds of the law, to protect their borders. If the voters are ok with their country being one to rip apart parents and children, the Trump administration will see no adverse effect from these behaviors. If the voters are not ok with that, they will tell the administration at the polls. The rest of us have no say in the matter, so we can only sit back and see what Americans decide what their beliefs are, how they want to define themselves as a nation, and where they think base levels of decency lie.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

There shouldnt have to be "pressure" to force Congress to have a desire to enforce the laws that Congress passed. Enforce the laws as written and as passed by Congress.

And you also support separating children from their wives as a means of political pressure to enforce border control. Right?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

BlacklabelToday  08:52 am JST

Independents are the happiest they have been since 2005 with the direction of the country. 

That, unfortunately, says quite a lot about Americans then doesn't it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Trump is scrapping the foundation of United States and that is 'Humanity'! The awkward image lead people to think twice who they were dealing with. Anyway uncle Trump carry on your good work, Moscow is praising you and you will be honoured in Kremilin!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

There shouldnt have to be "pressure" to force Congress to have a desire to enforce the laws that Congress passed.

A healthy democracy not only allows for pressure on the government by the people, it requires it in order to improve and become stronger.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

its not going to cost Trump any votes as the people who want this wouldnt vote for him even if he did it. So it will be back to Stormy in a week.

Probably. But this will definitely come back up around election time.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The Trump administration now accepts that child abuse is an acceptable immigration tactic to utilize in the name of law enforcement and border security. I'm all for enforcing the laws in the books, and punishing those who willfully choose to violate those laws, but call it out this move for what this is - cowardliness - or in my neck of the woods - a straight-up chicken**** maneuver.

Simply put, whenever a hostage situation is viewed as an acceptable tactic to achieve an administrative objective, it demonstrates complete lack of any strategic thinking, and simply a total lack of b*lls to man-up and admit you don't have a clue as to what to do. This is beyond the pale and isn't defensible. As Truman said about being the President that, "...the buck stops here". You killed the cow, now you have to eat it.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Blacklabel: dont forget their parents brought them to our country to allow that to happen

Don’t forget that you support changes so that we can target children and put them in traumatic situations with the goal of getting your political rival to meet your demands.

Make sure you don’t forget that. Maybe if they cry more you can get more from Democrats.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The depravity of the Trump administration is disgusting to watch. Gratuitously caging children? You people are sick.

> Yes it does. It says we dont want to be Europe or Canada or Mexico.

Thank god those countries aren't like America under Trump.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

so what do we call Obama when he caged children? And what was his motivation for doing so?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

so what do we call Obama when he caged children? And what was his motivation for doing so?

This article is about Trump caging children, not Obama. Trump is abusing small children. He is a sick, twisted monster and so is anyone who defends this.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Some of the child Tump supporters need caging.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

so what do we call Obama when he caged children?

I call that decision by his administration as pretty despicable. I'd like to know who ordered that.

It definitely does not excuse the actions of the current administration. What was that your mom said about two wrongs?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The depravity of the Trump administration is disgusting to watch. Gratuitously caging children? You people are sick.

But many of us feel the same way about how the Democrats in a state like my state where they allow open borders and people to come in anytime, anywhere. My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

So what do we call Obama when he caged children? And what was his motivation for doing so?

A distraction? A rhetorical tool -- "look hypocrties" -- in lieu of focusing on present problems. The most glaring of which is children being traumatized and held hostage in order to advance xenophobic legislation and preserve the fatherland.

This blinkered partisan reaction always drives me nuts. Who has power now, who is doing wrong now. Fools bleating out Hillary or Obama or Bush like they have Tourette's might make you feel better as your cheer on cages and camps. But in the long run, your grandkids will be reading about Americans who enabled this monstrous behavior. By that time, you'll have revised your thinking as it'll no longer be acceptable to say such things in polite company. It'll sound like people who say things like, you know, those McCarthyites or Klan members or Puritans burning witches at the stake--they had it right at the time. Oh, that's right, why do we never hear things like that.

Yeah, son, when I was a young man I cheered on President Trump as he interned small children, whose anguish failed to move him or us into being decent human beings. That is my proudest moment.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Readers, Obama is not relevant to this particular discussion. The topic is about President Trump's policy.

Bass: But many of us feel the same way about how the Democrats in a state like my state where they allow open borders and people to come in anytime, anywhere.

And because of this you decided it’s OK to target children?

Are there any other situations in your life when you felt intentionally harming children was justified....or just this?

8 ( +9 / -1 )

But many of us feel the same way about how the Democrats in a state like my state where they allow open borders and people to come in anytime, anywhere. My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!

So? Comment about that on articles about sanctuary states, this has nothing to do with that. This is an article about children literally being torn from their mothers and put into cages. You don't have to support sanctuary cities to condemn that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!

The horror. Being human is a sickness.

Your state has always been known for its Hispanic history and what that brings, gangs, poor people, farm workers, great food. It isn't all white, and it isn't all Hispanics. You see every ethnicity.

In the early days, the farms were completely dependent on migrant workers, and without the farms and migrants, your state would be half of what it is.

Even the biggest and most well known cities there are named using Spanish, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Im not ignoring it at all. I am saying it is in accordance with the current laws of our country. 

And if you’re lucky the voters will think that the law overrides basic human decency.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The "crying girl" from El Salvador the media is using as their poster child.

So you are vilifying little kids now? What is wrong with you?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Her mother paid a smuggler to bring them through 2 other safe countries to get to the US border and then sneak over. Villify her mother. You dont pay coyotes to take you for asylum. Legal immigration would cost 1/10th of that cost. But it doesnt have the instant gratification and all the DACA benefits.

No, you misunderstood. I wasn't asking you to further vilify the little girl and her family, I was asking you to explain what is wrong with you.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Trump's Nazi policies are coming to fruition. Funny to watch him -- off-spring of immigrants, and Kirstjen, also of immigrants, saying that "It is not our policy! It is not policy. Period." then turning around and saying they must defend their policy. Trump supporters, already proven to bend over backwards to outdo anyone in stupidity, just nod, drool, and support the constant 180s 100%.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Mark Steyn called it right, it is nothing more than the sentimentalization of public policy. As usual, Godwin's Law comes into play as can be seen by smith's post.

If you want the law to change, you will have your chance in November. Lobby your member of Congress, but be sure to also offer a real and realistic option other than "nazis!" or "heartless b.stards" or "child abusers". Those are unlikely to work very well at convincing the other side that you are right. Not great tools of persuasion folks.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

bass4funk: "My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!"

Chris Tucker comments on this between poop eater grins; saying how much of a shame it is that once beautiful, white gated communities are unrecognisable now with ethnic minorities in them, and what a shame that is. Well done, bass!

4 ( +5 / -1 )

the law is law

The law requires none of this. This is a discretionary policy.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Attilathehungry: "Mark Steyn called it right, it is nothing more than the sentimentalization of public policy. As usual, Godwin's Law comes into play as can be seen by smith's post."

If that's the case, why is Trump saying the Democrats created this "policy", then saying there is no policy, it's not theirs, but they must absolutely defend (a policy that doesn't exist)?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You can't justify Trump's actions. It is not acceptable to separate children from their parents in this way, it is not acceptable to put children in prisons and cages, it is not acceptable to pretend this isn't happening.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

My state is a sanctuary state and to me I think it’s disgusting to watch to see how my beautiful state is crumbling and turning into a Third World stat us. All of the politicians in California are sick!

Sounds like you have race hate. The economy of California puts it well beyond being third world.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

We dont use our "discretion" to ignore perfectly valid laws we dont like or that hurt our feeeelings.

Nobody ignored the laws, they just enforced them in a way that did not involve child abuse. Trump has chosen the child abuse route, a move you support.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If anyone is actually interested in the facts of child detention, you need to study a bit of history. A quarter century ago, the Supreme Court mandated the conditions required in the Flores v. Reno(1997) case.

Briefly;

"The settlement calls on Federal authorities to treat “all minors with dignity, respect and special concern for their particular vulnerability as minors. The agreement establishes minimum standards for initial detention and a policy favoring release of minors. It also requires that children who remain in federal custody be placed in the least restrictive environment and mandates provision of information, treatment and services."

The current policy followed is consistent with this ruling. No Nazi camps, no barbed wire cages, no useless tugging at the heartstrings. It is not a new policy.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

if you go down to orange county it’s clean it’s expensive, it’s pristine, it’s conservative, low crime rate.

more race hate. Orange County high violent crime and high property crime.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If anyone is actually interested in the facts of child detention, you need to study a bit of history. A quarter century ago, the Supreme Court mandated the conditions required in the Flores v. Reno(1997) case.

The policy at issue in that case is completely different from the current one. That policy specifically applied to children who had arrived without family members and the issue was whether or not those who did not have family they could be released into the custody of could be detained. The current policy is about children who arrive WITH family members and are separated from them.

It really tells us nothing useful about the current situation. Go back to the legal history books.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Praise Trump praise uncle Trump! He is doing everything to undermine America's long time tradition on humanity! He is doing things to scrap America's image and he has alot of supporters! U.S. has tradition of welcome and home of immmigrants no matter legal or illegal and their children!

During the end of Vietnam war, we saw the US airforce C-5Agalaxy the massive cargo plane flying children ,babies those Vietnamese orphans out of the falling Saigon to U.S. Wow that was a big image promotion of America even they were defeated by communists! You won't see this again any any more! What you will see is awkward babies crying!

Well done uncle Trump!

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Rainy; my point was that the conditions the children are held in are NOT poor. They are fed, clothed, educated, and cared for by medical staff. That was the point of Flores, to ensure that the kids are treated well.

The current situation is a problem because the number of families who enter the US illegally is skyrocketing. Traditionally, single men and women were the majority of offenders. However, that has changed recently and the system does not have enough space to properly house them. There ARE facilities available to house families together, but they are maxed out. So, other arrangements have to be made. The only choices are: separate the families, or release them. Stats show that those released simply disappear into the vastness of America, very few actually show up for their hearings before a judge.

The criminal prosecution of border crossers is not new. The style of border crossers (full families as opposed to singles) is.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Rainy; my point was that the conditions the children are held in are NOT poor.

Then why refer to a 20 year old judgment as evidence of that? The facts on the ground today are much more relevant. Pictures that look like scenes from Schindler's List hardly suggest

They are fed, clothed, educated, and cared for by medical staff.

They are also being held in dog kennels. Nobody is saying they are being starved, they are saying it is fundamentally cruel to take children as young as infants away from their parents when there is no pressing need to do so.

That was the point of Flores, to ensure that the kids are treated well.

The point in Flores was whether or not the policy in that case violated the 5th amendment's due process clause, something that isn't at issue now.

The criminal prosecution of border crossers is not new. The style of border crossers (full families as opposed to singles) is.

The policy is clearly new, this wasn't happening until Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the new policy. If you support the policy, argue in favor of its merits rather than obfuscating the facts, it is not at all convincing.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Rainy, enough of the cheap Nazi allusions. They don't help the conversation at all.

As I said, THERE ARE NO OPTIONS. There are no facilities available for families to be detained together. They are all full. Full. Means no room. These are temporary options that are better than anyone can imagine.

Dog kennels? Again, enough of the hyperbole. Fed, clothed, educated, given exercise, cared for by doctors.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

Rainy, enough of the cheap Nazi allusions.

Surely you man enough with the cheap Nazi policies? I didn't use the "N" word, but these scenes look exactly like those in Schindler's List, except in color. Don't like the comparison? Then don't invite it with actions that elicit it.

THERE ARE NO OPTIONS.

Sure there are options, putting it in all caps doesn't change that. 6 months ago they weren't doing this and the world didn't end, so obviously not doing it is an option.

Dog kennels? Again, enough of the hyperbole. 

Not hyperbole. The place looks virtually identical to the kennel I used to leave my dog at when I'd go on family trips.

Fed, clothed, educated, given exercise, cared for by doctors.

So you'd be comfortable with your kids being thrown in there?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Some people shouldn't try to compare Italy's current situation with the U.S. of Donald Trump. Italy will never separate children from their parents. Italy will never put the children in a cage, that would be considered absolutely inconceivable. After that in the past 4/5 years Italy accepted unconditionally the arrive of almost 700,000 illegal migrants arrived by sea, while the rest of Europe CLOSED their borders (see Austria, France, Spain, etc.), the current Italian government closed the ports to foreign NGOs boats that bring thousands of migrants ONLY to Italy, to force the rest of Europe to share the burder of this huge problem. Finally, the EU is starting to listen to Italy, admitting it abandoned us, despite Macron and Sanchez being the most hypocrites I ever saw, with Macron calling Italy "irresponsible and cynic" while the French keep their borders closed, and they push back to Italy by violence all the French speaking migrants who from Ventimiglia want to go to France, where many of them have their families. Italy had also offered to the Acquarius to let all pregnant women, sick people and children (who are traveling alone, without any parent) land to Italy, but the Acquarius didn't accept the proposal. Apparently their policy is "Everyone or nobody" and this is absurd. In these same days Italy accepted other 2,000 migrants, rescued by Italian Guard Coast.

Also the Us Navy Trenton rescued 42 migrants, and try to imagine who was forced to accept them, after the Americans dumped 12 corpses in the sea? Italy, of course. They landed to Lampedusa, and the same it will happen with other 500 migrants. Plus, remember that most of these migrants are not families, women and children, but men in their 20s. So, please, don't even try to compare the U.S. to Italy.

So, while the media are so focused on the Acquarius case, in a couple of days Italian Guard Coast already rescued and brought to Italy almost 3,000 migrants. It's so weird, but the foreign NGOs are all EMPTY since Italy closed to them her ports. Really WEIRD. Again, DON'T compare the U.S. to Italy.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

If anyone is actually interested in the facts of child detention, you need to study a bit of history. A quarter century ago...

How about we deal with the situation now, rather than going into things from 25 years ago?

We have kids being kept in cages, away from their parents. This is going on right now in America.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

We also have more families than ever before crossing illegally. There are no facilities to house them together. So what are your solutions stranger and/or rain? That's what it boils down to. That is my frustration to be honest. Lots of people reacting emotionally, but none have any serious proposals as to what to do to ameliorate the situation.

As for if they were my kids, I will say this. IF I were to attempt to enter another country illegally with my family, and that country put my kids in a safe and clean environment with proper food/medical care/safety, I would be grateful. I wouldn't expect them to put us up together at the local Holiday Inn. I broke the law knowingly, and there are consequences to that.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The current situation is a problem because the number of families who enter the US illegally is skyrocketing.

Because the Trump administration is denying entry for asylum seekers, so asylum seekers are entering illegally.

There is no change in the number of families entering the U.S.

The other fallacy (part of your skyrocketing statistics) is that smugglers are using children to enter the country and escape incarceration. The number of people doing that is 6 in 10,000, and that hasn't changed.

The statistical methods to measure immigration are being manipulated to produce a skyrocket effect. The only change is a slow change to normal immigration after immigration slowed following Trump getting put in office.

Trump and co are too dumb to keep the lies going.

This is all about deterrence, which is criminal and unethical.

The people still supporting Trump on this should be ashamed.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

THERE ARE NO OPTIONS.

And yet, they aren't doing this in other countries, nor have other administrations been doing it, and for that matter, this administration was not doing it until recently.

All your comment really says is 'we think no options are better than keeping kids away from their parents'.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

We also have more families than ever before crossing illegally.

I'll leave you to reply to Viking's debunking of that claim.

There are no facilities to house them together. So what are your solutions stranger and/or rain? 

The reason for the lack of facilities is that the government is locking up people it did not previously lock up. My solution? Stop locking them up.

Lots of people reacting emotionally, but none have any serious proposals as to what to do to ameliorate the situation.

Observe my emotion-free response: The administration implemented a change in policy that it knew would result in an explosion of people, including children, being detained and families broken apart. It did nothing to ensure that facilities were available for this 100% predictable (and in fact intended) consequence prior to making that change. This level of negligence is beyond the pale. Its not up to me or any other commenters on here to come up with solutions to this mess that is entirely of the Trump administration's own making. This is bad policy, badly executed. Even if you want to shut down the borders completely there is no defending this policy or the way it has been implemented. It is a disaster from start to finish, regardless of whether or not you have any feelings of empathy for the people being subjected to it.

I would be grateful.

My question perhaps unfairly put you on the spot, but all the same I highly doubt that if you had just had your crying kids ripped from your arms and put into a cage you would be thanking the people who did the ripping.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The obvious answer is that they seek asylum in Mexico. They share a common language, culture, and it is closer to their homes for when they return. That may be the best option of all. The US has no obligation to harbor these people who crossed one safe country to try to enter the US. At that point, they stopped being asylum seekers and became economic migrants, which is a different thing entirely.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The obvious answer is that they seek asylum in Mexico.

That isn't actually an answer to the questions you posed and tells us nothing about what the US policy on child separations should be.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I think there are 3 questions here;

Are the children well cared for?

What should happen to families who cross the border illegally?

What options do those families have?

To answer: the first question is "yes". They are well cared for. There is no evidence to the contrary.

The second question is: they should be kept together IF there is space in facilities. If there is no space, they get separated. There is no space available due to the huge numbers crossing now. So the kids are put into temporary facilities. Not ideal, but better than sleeping among the cacti and snakes of the Nogales Desert.

The third question, see below. They should seek asylum in their first country of refuge, which is Mexico. Travelling across Mexico to get to the US shows that they are not real asylum seekers, but are taking advantage of the situation to try to get into the US illegally. Genuine asylum seekers, fleeing in fear of their lives, would stop as soon as they were safe. And they are safe in Mexico.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

While I have upmost sympathy for people attempting a new start in life, I have no sympathy for those that try to evade the system and then suffer the consequences.

Anyone doing so needs to be aware of the penalties.

However poor, an application for asylum to the US is possible.The US still accepts thousands of people from all over the world each year.

Illegal crossing doesn’t help anyone’s case.

The news of crying toddlers on CNN is a real tear jerker but it will quickly show that the US is not a soft touch anymore.

As one that has fenced a few times with immigration in Japan, I have yet to break the law here-that is why I could enter, remain and have a fairly normal life here....

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I think there are 3 questions here;

> Are the children well cared for?

> What should happen to families who cross the border illegally?

> What options do those families have?

Again, these questions do not tell us much about what the policy should be on family separations.

Logically the question to start with is "Should we go back to the previous system of releasing families pending judicial proceedings, or should we continue with the new policy?"

The cost of the first is that a lot of people don't show up for their hearings and basically stay in the country illegally if/until they are caught. So it is a weaker way of cracking down on immigration but is also way less draconian on families. The cost of the second one is the obvious cruelty of tearing children away from their parents and warehousing them in cages, though it will probably have a deterrent effect which will reduce immigration (its intended effect at least).

If you want to come up with some cost/benefit analysis that favors the new policy then do so. Pretending everything is fine because the caged kids are given adequate food and medicine is just disingenuous.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I think there are 3 questions here;

I think that the American public thinks your three questions are not as relevant as the fact that the Trump administration is ripping children apart from their parents, and keeping them in cages.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There are no facilities to house them together.

Really?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hi, thanks for the direct answer. From what I read, upwards of 90% of those seeking asylum never appeared at their court dates, and simply joined the millions of others who are already illegally in the US. Kind of makes their claim of asylum a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? True claimants would eagerly await their day in court. true claimants would also claim that status in the first country they entered (Mexico).

This policy also trumpets to the world at large that if you can bring your kids with you to the US to act as some sort of moral shield, you will be let go. This is a horrid precedent to set.

So, in light of that, claimants are detained until their status can be determined. During that detention, it is sometimes necessary for families to be separated. Sad, but necessary. Given that the vast majority of asylum seekers are in reality economic migrants, no-one can be blamed but themselves.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

be sure to also offer a real and realistic option other than "nazis!" or "heartless b.stards" or "child abusers". Those are unlikely to work very well at convincing the other side that you are right. Not great tools of persuasion folks.

This kind of behavior worked well for the Republicans in the last election. They went on for eight years saying stuff like that, and won the presidency. So I think that actually they are good tools of persuasion.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

During that detention, it is sometimes necessary for families to be separated.

And yet, somehow wasn't necessary until just recently.

I think maybe you are misunderstanding the word 'necessary'.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There are no facilities to house them together.

Really? Are they running out of room? What's going on specifically?

This policy also trumpets to the world at large that if you can bring your kids with you to the US to act as some sort of moral shield, you will be let go

So, which is it? This or lack of family cells?

Given that the vast majority of asylum seekers are in reality economic migrants

Really? Please entertain us with some statistics.

They should seek asylum in their first country of refuge, which is Mexico.

Good point. Net immigration is reversing. But Trump keeps saying millions and millions of Mexicans are coming over the border on a yearly basis. Why is that?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

President Trump is enforcing U.S. law that was enacted in 1997. It is the job of U.S. politicians to change that law.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

These people who support this should have their children forcibly separated from them so they know how it feels.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

be the Democrats for allowing this to happen

No, it is in Trump's control. Or lack thereof, like no wall. Illegal immigrants are walking all over Trump and Trump is too weak to do anything about it. Trump failed to build his wall.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

President Trump is enforcing U.S. law that was enacted in 1997. It is the job of U.S. politicians to change that law.

And it's the job of the people to choose politicians who will create and/or enforce laws that the public feels fit the morality of the country.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

These illegals are hardworkers who are doing the job most americans dont want to do. They are not even entitled to welfare or basic rights, and they pay them peanuts.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

it happens to thousands of Americans already, no different.

You keep saying that but those are mostly people charged with a crime. Had a court trial and found guilty and imprisoned for a period of time. Many are then able to have visits from their kids.

The illegal immigrants are being arrested and having their children removed without any court case.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

We had fascism for 8 years and now the left is trying to use it to force us to take in illegals when we are not obligated to

Another of your false brush strokes.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Too bad Max Eisenhardt aka Erik (Magnus) Lehnsherr, otherwise known by the soubriquet "Magneto" is a fictional character. He knew from his own childhood that separating children from their parents is not a policy but simple child abuse and he would have just loved to rearrange all those cages and chain-link fences! Trump, like his dead-ringer character, the obnoxious Senator Robert Kelly, needs to be taught a lesson, too, and this outrage against innocent children may likewise mutate Trump's standing in the world, reducing him to a quivering orange blob and leading to his well-deserved comeuppance.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I see there is still lots of support from Trump fans for targeting children. If you can maximize their pain then maybe you can get a better deal for yourselves. Because this whole thing was designed to cause them pain.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Readers, this discussion is now closed.

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