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UK in deadlock over Brexit 'Plan B' as May and Corbyn tussle

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By Kylie MacLellan and William James

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No deal Brexit. Just say no! To socialism

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

May is supposed to present Plan B to the Commons on Monday. Unfortunately, there is no Plan B. These rag tag meetings are definitely NOT Plan B, but she's going to present them as such.

I don't know why she is scared of the Brexiteers in her party, they are only scared of losing their seats in the next General Election and that's unlikely to happen with Corbyn as the Opposition. The worst government in history and he's behind in the polls.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Leave means leave. WTO is the way to go!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Just say no! To socialism

Some socialists voted to remain and some socialists voted to leave. Some conservatives voted to remain and some voted to leave.

It’s not that difficult a concept to grasp. Just have a try.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Those that voted FOR Brexit voted to LEAVE.

Not BEST DEAL, on EU TERMS, etc.

Just LEAVE!

No Deal / WTO Terms IS LEAVE!!

Like it or not, THAT is what the majority voted for!!

IF the UK could survive WWI and WWII, they can survive this!! Not only survive, but actually thrive!!

It still boggles the mind that a country that fought 2 wars to preserve national sovereignty will, of its own accord, forever cede sovereignty to non-elected bureaucrats in Brussels!!

Mind boggling for a country with a proud history as the UK!!!

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@zones2surf

I concur.

I would just like to add that the British people were never asked to hand over sovereignty to the EU. Edward Heath (Prime Minister during the Common Market Referendum in 1975) said that the UK would not lose its own sovereignty and that it was not going to result in political union.

A document written by the Government at that time called FCO30/1048 was kept secret for 30 years. It stated, facts concerning loss of sovereignty, monetary union and eventual politcal union should be kept hidden from the British public long enough so that they didn't realise what was happening, and it would be too late to do anything about it.

Whether it be the Conservatives or Labour, the British people have been betrayed again and again by the political class.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tangerine2000, interesting you raise FCO 30/1048. The document broadly recognises the advantages of EEC membership and the potential to extent British influence throughout western Europe as long as the country fully participates. It recognises public anxieties masquerading as concern for loss off sovereignty, but is quite clear that the adjustments required are no more than those required to meet other treaty obligations. It also recognised the populations growing (at the time) detachment from the government and parliament.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@SwissToni

I find the following excerpts disconcerting:

"The more the Community is developed...the more parliamentary sovereignty will be eroded"

"The sovereignty of the State will surely remain unchallenged for this century at least"

If the entire project was so advantageous, why weren't they upfront with the public? Why was there any need to hide or obscure certain details from the people?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Leave means leave. WTO is the way to go!

lol WTO wont save UK butt theyll only judge trade disputes that are already in place. EU will never give UK free market access to the level other EU members have , otherwise why would anybody remain in the EU, meanwhile 800billion pounds of investment has already left the UK for the EU and is expected to accelerate in the coming years. Leave does mean leave , including investments, anybody who thinks the UK will be financially better off after Brexit is a moron

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tangerine2000, of course you find them disconcerting, if you select parts of sentences from a 225 page document, you can interpret them how you like. However despite appearances parliamentary sovereignty has not been eroded as demonstrated this very week. State sovereignty is impacted by every treaty agreed (EU or any other international body) and pooling sovereignty with the other EU members’ has enabled the UK to punch far above its weight. The UK’s influence across EU institutions is second only to Germany and by association across the globe. The economic and political advantages have been demonstrated over the last 40 years, not least by growing from the 7th strongest economy on the planet to the 5th and it has not been held back exercising its military. And they were up front with the public, Harold Wilson and Edward Heath both made their and the EEC’s desire for closer political union very clear. It’s all on record in Hansard if you care to look for it.

Im afraid you and the others that bought into the Tory eurosceptic’s rhetoric have been played but good.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I neither trust or believe what Tories say. I did my own research and came to my own conclusions.

However despite appearances parliamentary sovereignty has not been eroded as demonstrated this very week

If you believe that, no one will be able to convince you otherwise. EU law can be implemented with prior agreement from the British Government and without consent of the British Parliament.

pooling sovereignty with the other EU members’ has enabled the UK to punch far above its weight

Completely untrue. The EU ignores individual member state's concerns if they aren't in line with their own. The UK isn't able to trade in the way in would like to with countries from across the globe. Thus its hand are bound from even being able to attempt to punch in the first place.

The economic and political advantages have been demonstrated over the last 40 years, not least by growing from the 7th strongest economy on the planet to the 5th and it has not been held back exercising its military.

By leaving the ERM and by not joining the Euro. Two of the crowning acheivements of the EU. But still, remaining in the EU means you have to eventually accept the Euro.

I'm afraid to say that you have invested into the idea of the EU so much that you have to turn a blind-eye to points such as these. But, I appreciate that you do acknowledge that the UK has to sacrifice sovereignty to be a member.

Having trade deals and international agreements with other countries doesn't require you to surrender it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tangerine2000, EU directives are implemented under individual countries legal systems. Directives that require new UK laws require parliamentary approval. Those that require minor changes can be implemented as Regulations without a vote under existing Acts of parliament. Parliament has a say.

I don’t ‘believe’ parliament is sovereign on faith, it’s a fact, been demonstrated time and again over the last couple of years. The Brexit white paper was quite clear on the point of sovereignty of parliament.

The EU cannot ignore individual member state's concerns. The Commission and its groups are made up of members from those very EU states and it’s proposals are discussed and voted on in the EU parliament. The UK has supported the EU In Council of Ministers voting over 80% of the time. By treaty, measures that are against a member state’s vital interests cannot be imposed.

The UK trades with whoever it wants, that’s obvious to see. The thinking that the UK could somehow negotiate better trading terms than the EU is as unimpressive as your hyperbole.

Despite it’s teething troubles the Euro still exists and is currently standing very tall against the Pound. The vote to leave didn’t do that much good did it?

Having trade deals and agreements is indeed pooling sovereignty to a greater or lesser extent. That’s the nature of negotiation. Any treaty, trade or otherwise is to agree a set of common rules and practices and restricts the freedom to act outside the agreed parameters. Even the Brexiters favourite fallback the WTO has rules.

As you can see, the points you raised are weak rhetoric you appear to have swallowed. So if you’ve not been played by Tory eurosceptics who’s shinola are you bathing in, Farage’s? What happened to him I wonder?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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