In major shift, Trump says time for U.S. to recognize Israeli sovereignty over Golan Heights

With the rapid rise in anti-Semitism among progressives, it’s good to see President Trump doing the right thing. Israel legitimately owns the Golan Heights.

Bolsonaro, Netanyahu, Duterte, Kim and of course Poo-chin. Trump loves him some strongmen. They should make a calendar of these guys wearing leather.

Four more years!

Every action these anti-Muslim clowns have taken has been decidedly in favor of the Israelis, in favor of occupation of stolen lands, in favor of legislative bigotry, in favor of abusing Muslim people and in favor of making them second class citizens with apartheid laws. 

Not in my name, Mr. Trump. Stop. Stealing. Stuff.

Trump wants to usher in a new world order where might makes right and occupation makes sovereignty, and renders any territory in the world subject to conquest and annexation. On what moral or legal basis could the US object if China now decided to invade Taiwan?

International law is clear. The Golan belongs to the Syrian people.

Whatever your position is on Israel and whether you agree with the President or not, you all know full well, one side is going to be extremely jubilant about this and another side will be enraged. Expect more shock and awes to come.

Every action these anti-Muslim clowns have taken has been decidedly in favor of the Israelis, in favor of occupation of stolen lands, in favor of legislative bigotry, in favor of abusing Muslim people and in favor of making them second class citizens with apartheid laws. 

That issue will never be settled, never in our lifetime, I assure you of it.

Not in my name, Mr. Trump. Stop. Stealing. Stuff. 

Trump didn’t “steal” anything.

Trump wants to usher in a new world order where might makes right and occupation makes sovereignty, and renders any territory in the world subject to conquest and annexation.

Were liberals this outraged about Crimea? Where they outraged that our Ukrainian ally’s beggged for arms and the previous administration wouldn’t do it. We’re most liberals outraged about that?

On what moral or legal basis could the US object if China now decided to invade Taiwan? 

No one knows.

International law is clear. The Golan belongs to the Syrian people.

As was Crimea to the Ukraine.

How does this benefit the US?

How does this benefit the US?

It strengthens a relationship with a key ally for one.

A key ally?

Yes, Israel is the only democracy in the ME-something like that....

Unfortunately President Trump and his evangelical and Jewish supporters are dead wrong on this matter.

The Golan Heights is stolen land. Such a move will cause further tensions in the ME, prove beyond a doubt that the U.S is not a neutral and honest peace broker and put a further nail in the coffin regarding any hope for a peaceful resolution.

How does this benefit the US?

Not the US exactly. Just a few individuals

https://m.journal-neo.org/2015/10/26/genies-and-genocide-syria-israel-russia-and-much-oil-2/

Trump could have used this and the embassy move to get Israel to the table to negotiate a peace plan. Seems like squandered opportunities.

Unless there really are no plans for a peace agreement. In which case, this fits.

extanker: It strengthens a relationship with a key ally for one.

Nah, look at how he talks to/about Canada and Europe. Trump's doesn't do things for the sake of relationships with our allies. It makes sense that Trump has a strong personal relationship with Bibi given he's corrupt and a hardliner.

Wallace,

That site is a Russian site.

Anyways, to everyone, for real: how does this benefit the US? I understand it benefits Israel. I'm not particularly opposed to the US formally recognizing the over 50 year old Israel's seizure of the Golan Heights, or even Jerusalem, for that matter (though that sets serious deathtraps to any real solution to the I/P conflict)

I just wanna know what we get for it.

How does this benefit the United States of America? Right now? We don't need to throw Israel another freebie to make them like us anymore.

Hell, I am of the opinion if anyone should be engratiating themselves to anyone, its Israel to the US. Not the other way around...

Trump could have used this and the embassy move to get Israel to the table to negotiate a peace plan. Seems like squandered opportunities.

Unless there really are no plans for a peace agreement. In which case, this fits.

Question: So you think Hamas will publicly acknowledge Israel as the Jewish State?

@superlib

Nah, look at how he talks to/about Canada and Europe. Trump's doesn't do things for the sake of relationships with our allies. It makes sense that Trump has a strong personal relationship with Bibi given he's corrupt and a hardliner.

And regardless of whatever his private intentions are, publicly supporting Israel still strengthens the relationship between them and the United States.

@burningbs Liberals have always claimed that Trump is beholden to a foreign power.

Bit of a reality twist here. During the 2016 presidential election you GoTrumpers (made up of mostly ultrarightists) claimed that Trump was beholden to a foreign power.

@cla68 among progressives,

I know your intent is to continue to disparage all non-rightists, but claiming that 'progressives' are that is a gross over-generalization. Most people able to reason at even the most basic level oppose Israel's treatment of Arabs. That does not make them anti-semitic, except perhaps in the eyes of flamers bent on fanning fires. Many of these people are Jewish. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/16/israel-palestine-protests-american-jewish-groups

Many of these people are Jewish

By saying 'many of these people' I am referring to Jewish people who oppose Israel's brutal treatment of Arabs.

That site is a Russian site.

I don't quite understand how that invalidates the facts that this illegal move is based on oil profiteering like ALL other wars this millennium. I'll indulge your bigotry just this once though. I think this non-russian site should be ok in your book.

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/cheney-rothschild-fox-news-murdoch-drilling-oil-syria-violation-intl-law/

bass4funk: Question: So you think Hamas will publicly acknowledge Israel as the Jewish State?

Then come out and say there will be no peace deal. Don't campaign on one position then do another.

This issue presents a bit of a conundrum to Japanese. It lost islands to Russia through military conquest but wants it back.

Syria lost territory to Israel through military conquest too.

Then come out and say there will be no peace deal. Don't campaign on one position then do another

Fair enough, but please don’t act as if the Palestinians are the only victims when you have terrorists like Hamas declaring No peace deals with the Israelis and if the roles were reversed do you think the Palestinians would treat the Israelis with dignity, honor and respect or respect their human rights or rights to exist as Jews peacefully without any racism or repercussions? And I mean that to ask that question sincerely.

 if the roles were reversed do you think the Palestinians would treat the Israelis with dignity, honor and respect or respect their human rights or rights to exist as Jews peacefully without any racism or repercussions? 

This is an invalid question. You're presupposing that the Palestinians would have treated the Israelis bad from the start and thus engendering the hate and anger we currently see with the Palestinians.

Another massive geopolitican gaffe by the current occupant of the White House in Washington, D. C.

This is an invalid question.

No, it’s not an invalid question, it’s very valid, just answer it, please.

You're presupposing that the Palestinians would have treated the Israelis bad from the start and thus engendering the hate and anger we currently see with the Palestinians.

They did from the beginning before there was a Jewish State. Now once again...So would they, Yes or No?

They did from the beginning before there was a Jewish State. Now once again...So would they, Yes or No?

Palestinians and Jews coexisted in Palestine pre-Israel.

Were liberals this outraged about Crimea?

Yes, and I don't see how this is a matter of liberalism or conservatism.

Where they outraged that our Ukrainian ally’s beggged for arms and the previous administration wouldn’t do it. We’re most liberals outraged about that?

Are you comparing Israel to Russia? Are you suggesting that the United States provide arms for Syria? Do you have a point other than to badmouth liberals?

Did Vlad tell him to do this?

Are you comparing Israel to Russia? Are you suggesting that the United States provide arms for Syria? Do you have a point other than to badmouth liberals?

Nope.

https://japantoday.com/category/world/2020-democrats'-new-litmus-test-abolish-electoral-college

The criminal, illegal land steal goes on. I'm surprised we haven't seen a third intifada.

bass4funk: Fair enough, but please don’t act as if the Palestinians are the only victims when you have terrorists like Hamas declaring No peace deals with the Israelis and if the roles were reversed do you think the Palestinians would treat the Israelis with dignity, honor and respect or respect their human rights or rights to exist as Jews peacefully without any racism or repercussions? And I mean that to ask that question sincerely.

The only solution is negotiation, and Trump's actions are destroying any chance of that. He should have been honest about his intentions during the election.

My guess is, and this is pure speculation, that Trump sees the Democrats as wounded on Israel. So he decided on a major policy change to take advantage of that in hopes of helping himself personally.

I really see no benefit to the US in any way. But feel free to speak up.

I think Superlib’s speculation is a reasonable one.

After ignoramus ‘who knew?’ Trump learned that sorting out the problems in this part of the world isn’t is easy as he thought, he believes he can still salvage something for himself by actions like this.

His base will like it or excuse it and bugger the consequences.

Yes

But they didn’t do anything, so their selective outrage is a joke.

Are you comparing Israel to Russia?

No, I’m comparing the act of antagonism and aggression, which both Israel and Crimea suffered under.

Do you have a point other than to badmouth liberals?

I would like to ask the same question to liberals about conservatives.

The only solution is negotiation, and Trump's actions are destroying any chance of that. He should have been honest about his intentions during the election.

Trump’s actions? Now you know that is the biggest hogwash. You think Trump can fix something that has been dividing Jews and Palestinians for 2000 years? Lol

My guess is, and this is pure speculation, that Trump sees the Democrats as wounded on Israel.

They always have been and always will be.

So he decided on a major policy change to take advantage of that in hopes of helping himself personally.

Democrats did it with Iran and Cuba and taken other radical positions to pull in supporters.

I really see no benefit to the US in any way. But feel free to speak up.

I didn’t see it with the Iran deal either, but that didn’t stop the deal from going through.

I would like to ask the same question to liberals about conservatives.

I haven't seen a single criticism of conservatives/conservatism on this thread. There's criticism of Trump, but that's not the same thing.

Keep in mind that no previous U.S. president recognized Golan Heights as legitimate Israeli territory, including Republicans. Were they all liberals?

Trump’s actions? Now you know that is the biggest hogwash. You think Trump can fix something that has been dividing Jews and Palestinians for 2000 years? Lol

Jews and Palestinians haven't been fighting for thousands of years.

Trump displays his masterful 'dealmaking' once again by giving Israel whatever they want and asking for nothing in return. It would be really interesting to know who ordered him to do this, and why he agreed.

He is a conservative, is he not?

Trump is neither conservative nor liberal. He's simply a deranged narcissist and opportunist.

Back to my point, recognizing Golan Heights as legitimate Israeli territory has nothing to do with conservatism or liberalism. It's Trump angling for more cash from Sheldon Adelson.

They always have been and always will be.

That why a democratic president recognized Israel as a state?

Accuracy.

Trump is neither conservative nor liberal.

He’s definitely not a liberal, not even close.

He's simply a deranged narcissist and opportunist.

Yeah? Well, there aren’t any words in the English language that can define the Democrat party.

Back to my point, recognizing Golan Heights as legitimate Israeli territory has nothing to do with conservatism or liberalism. It's Trump angling for more cash from Sheldon Adelson.

Ok, you can believe that, there are millions that will have a different point of view on that.

That why a democratic president recognized Israel as a state?

I wasn’t talking about the Previous Democrat President Who by the way was more hostile to Israel, but as I said before, Hamas doesn’t and will never recognize Israel.

Acuracy.

Well, there aren’t any words in the English language that can define the Democrat party.

Exactly. Because it's made up of millions of individuals, all with particular characteristics and viewpoints. Donald Trump is one person. Do you see the difference?

It would be nice for a change if you could defend Trump without resorting to blanket statements about the entire Democratic Party or the entire planet of liberals.

He’s definitely not a liberal, not even close.

Nor is he a conservative. Not even close. Trump does not have an ideology. Trump does what he thinks is best for Trump.

Recognizing Israel's sovereignty of the Golan Heights is a reckless move done for shortsighted political reasons. Conservatism by definition abhors recklessness. That's why no Republican president ever made that move. And why Trump is not a conservative.

Exactly. Because it's made up of millions of individuals, all with particular characteristics and viewpoints.

Thank you, now you’re getting it.

It would be nice for a change if you could defend Trump without resorting to blanket statements about the entire Democratic Party or the entire planet of liberals.

All is fair in the game of war.

Recognizing Israel's sovereignty of the Golan Heights is a reckless move done for shortsighted political reasons.

Maybe, maybe not and if it helps either man, then so be it, both sides and politicians will play to their base.

Conservatism by definition abhors recklessness.

I think socialism is by far worse....really.

That's why no Republican president ever made that move. And why Trump is not a conservative.

It’s ok, his choice, if the last President can do whatever he can to appease Iran, then this President can do the same with Israel

I wasn’t talking about the Previous Democrat President Who by the way was more hostile to Israel, but as I said before, Hamas doesn’t and will never recognize Israel.

Acuracy.

I'll let that one sit there for everyone to enjoy.

Acuracy.

Amazing.

My comment

--Conservatism by definition abhors recklessness. 

is in no way addressed by

I think socialism is by far worse....really.

and my comment

--That's why no Republican president ever made that move. And why Trump is not a conservative.

is in no way addressed by

It’s ok, his choice, if the last President can do whatever he can to appease Iran, then this President can do the same with Israel

Let's make it real easy. I said "no Republican president ever". Obama was not a Republican. I was referring to Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush Sr., and Bush Jr. Any others you can think of?

None of those four individual Republican presidents recognized Golan Heights as legitimate Israeli territory. They were not liberal. They were not Democrats.

Again, this is not about left vs. right.

Bass: Democrats did it with Iran and Cuba and taken other radical positions to pull in supporters. I didn’t see it with the Iran deal either, but that didn’t stop the deal from going through.

You still haven’t listed any benefit to the US for Trump’s actions. If you’re going to ride out this thread with the typical Democrat/liberal bashing, then move on. Not interested.

I don't see a benefit for America. For Trump on the other hand, this plays out as a great distract from his other issues.

No it's not, otherwise there would be no war criminals in this world.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree.

You still haven’t listed any benefit to the US for Trump’s actions.

You haven’t listed the disadvantages.

If you’re going to ride out this thread with the typical Democrat/liberal bashing, then move on. Not interested.

But we have to be subjected to the Trump conservative bashing where you guys have zero solutions, but only anger and condemnation of the man? I’m not going to psychoanalyze, our President or his actions, you do, you don’t like him and I get it, I did the same about the last President and his actions towards a country that is bent on destroying the Jewish nation. When you have a war, you don’t return the spoils.

A day later and now we know why:

The President's motivation here is plain. Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing a tough reelection next month, and is doing poorly in the polls due both to his leadership and his indictment on corruption charges. So, he pushed hard for Trump to give him a shot in the arm by calling for recognition. Later in the day on Thursday, Trump insisted that is not what is going on, and that his announcement was merely coincidental.

-- https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2019/Pres/Maps/Mar22.html#item-2

In short, Trump gave Netanyahu an asssit. Good for Netanyahu, neutral for Trump, bad for America.

And if that ain't makin' 'Merca great again, I dunnow what is....

Bass4funk:. You haven’t listed the disadvantages.

Of course I did. It makes a peace deal less possible. But the question remains:. What is the advantage to the US for this? And why no policy trade?

No we don't.

Yes, we do because I don’t see it the way you do.

If you disagree with that, then you don't accept those laws and conventions. 

I don’t make policy, so how I interpret it doesn’t matter.

The United Nations states that the Golan Heights are an occupation of foreign lands, owned by Syria.

If we went by what the UN always said, countries lik the US and Israel wouldn’t exist. UN condemned Russia annexing Crimea, a lot of good their condemnation did.

Of course I did. It makes a peace deal less possible.

The peace deal is not possible unless Hamas recognizes Israel as the country and home of the Jewish people, so No, you didn’t give any real disadvantages.

Bass4funk:. The peace deal is not possible unless Hamas recognizes Israel as the country and home of the Jewish people

If you dont have an advantage, so be it. But no, we aren't going to he talking about some other point so you can have a response other than nothing.

If you dont have an advantage, so be it.

Exactly.

So you expect the Hamas, who don't represent all the Palestinians, to recognise the Jewish nation while the Israeli prime minister does not agree to the Two State solution.

There were other PM before Netanyahu and Hamas took the same position, Arafat, the grandfather of terrorism especially.

If you don't accept the international laws on the aspects of what is a war crime then you equally accept that when it happens against the U.S. military, that too is alright. 

I’m don’t accept what you or others think. I think the US and Israel will and should do whatever it needs to to protect its citizens and the UN can go fishing.

I wonder what the Russian and Iran forces in Syria will do once they finish wiping out the opposition in the Syria civil war.

Will they go south to the Golan Heights and return them to Syria using force ?

Is this another step to the end of the world according to the bible ?

The end of the world is suppose to start in the Middle East.

The Golan belongs to the Syrian people.

You mean, the same "Syrian people" that were bombing Israeli civilians in the Galilee valley from the Golan Heights just before the Six Days War in June 1967? The Syrians attacked and Israel took the Golan to prevent further attacks, the same reason why it will never be returned.

The losers don't decide, there are plenty of examples throughout history. If you don't want to lose lands, don't attack your (stronger) neighbour.

Israel occupies this territory illegally, along with setllements in the West Bank. Better to recognize the 1967 borders that were established legally and with international assent, and recognize the rights of the Palestinians to the contiguous land they were given at the time. Anything else supports recognition of the right to territory taken by force.

The force was first used by Syria, not Israel. You need some elementary history.

http://www.sixdaywar.org/content/northernfront.asp