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Trump insists both sides to blame for Virginia violence

186 Comments
By Jeff Mason

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Is it just me or is the media intentionally fanning the flames here.

-8 ( +23 / -31 )

Trump defends the Charlottesville white nationalists stronger than many actual white nationalists have.

There hasn't been a full reveal under pressure like this since Col. Jessup in a Few Good Men.

Now we know.

I think it more than fair that any Trump supporter, here or anywhere, needs to come clean on whether they do or don't disavow white supremacy.

And if they don't, well.... Don't engage them.

It only legitimizes them.

7 ( +21 / -14 )

I think the media is fanning the flames but it's our Imbecile in Chief and his big mouth that's supplying the gasoline.

16 ( +26 / -10 )

Nice. Let it all out, Trump.

"Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa," former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke wrote on Twitter after Trump's latest remarks, referring to Black Lives Matter (BLM) and anti-facists.

Replace "Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke" with pretty much any conservative poster here over the last couple of days. Looks like everyone is on the samne page with the same talking points.

17 ( +27 / -10 )

Is it just me or is the media intentionally fanning the flames here.

The media is doing its job and asking questions.

I have my fair share of grievances and complaints about leftist activists, but to even imply that those protesting against the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville are on the same level as KKK and Neo-Nazis is just pathetic and shameful.

Which means it is par for the course for DT and his supporters.

The President of the United States of America thinks that people who protest Neo-Nazis and white supremacists like the KKK are partly to blame for the violence. I wonder how all those fallen American heroes who fought Nazis and Nazism in WWII would feel about this.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Trump gets it right again

-18 ( +14 / -32 )

Anyone using or inciting violence needs to be locked up.

The right to protest is protected speech, until violence or thuggery begins.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

BLM and Antifa are nothing but thugs and initiated the violence. If not, the whole thing would have been ignored

-15 ( +13 / -28 )

"The media is doing its job and asking questions."

If you say so....(spoken in sarcastic Vin Diesel voice)

"Is it just me or is the media intentionally fanning the flames here."

The MSM is a dying industry. They have lost 90% of their advertising revenue to Google and Facebook. Their only hope is stir the pot and fan the flames. But, they are going the way of the dinosaurs and will soon be extinct. They site no sources or any proof for many of the articles they write.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'd just forget America for at least the next four years if you haven't already. It's a wasteland now.

@clamenza BLM and Antifa are nothing but thugs and initiated the violence. If not, the whole thing would have been ignored

Grown men carrying tiki torches and shouting "You will not replace us / Jews will not replace us" should not and can not be ignored.

The Antifa would not exist if wasn't for the KKK and white nationalists holding rallies to declare that homosexuals, Jews, and anyone of color should be eradicated.

10 ( +19 / -9 )

Absolutely both sides are to blame.

A protest and the right to assimilate is clearly defined in the constitution.

People of any color should be able to do and say and show pride in how they please (if they please to do so) without any incitement by the media or assaults by another mob.

When I read that people blocking highways and smashing stores are freedom fighters, and anyone republican is a racist nationalist, I turn the news off and do my own thinking.

-10 ( +10 / -20 )

who needs Saturday Night Live when we've got Trump Everyday Live.... the circus rolls on....

6 ( +14 / -8 )

The Antifa would not exist if wasn't for the KKK and white nationalists holding rallies to declare that homosexuals, Jews, and anyone of color should be eradicated.

Wrong. Antifa is the result of over 3 decades of left wing indoctrination in US schools that teach self-hatred and white guilt. The KKK are an insignificant group of loons not on anyone's radar.

-8 ( +12 / -20 )

Is it just me or is the media intentionally fanning the flames here.

It seems you would be right in that assessment.

Trump defends the Charlottesville white nationalists stronger than many actual white nationalists have.

He did? When did he say that? I've been watching the news all day, yes, the media is trying their best to force feed us and indoctrinate us to believe that, but other than that, when did he say that?

There hasn't been a full reveal under pressure like this since Col. Jessup in a Few Good Men.

What?

Now we know.

I think it more than fair that any Trump supporter, here or anywhere, needs to come clean on whether they do or don't disavow white supremacy.

I noticed you didn't mention anything about the real filth in all of the, the catalyst that started this mess and that's the mayor and that idiot McAuliffe. For it weren't for his choice not to have the police engage the Neo Nazis and the fascist communist loons, maybe that woman would still be alive and all that bloodshed could have been insulted.

Replace "Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke" with pretty much any conservative poster here over the last couple of days. Looks like everyone is on the samne page with the same talking points.

There are NO Posters that agree or support the Klan, but it does seem like the left and especially on this site, they give a complete pass to the mayor, governor who caused this as well as the ANTIFA fascists that came looking for a fight, looking to smash someone's head in. I'm not surprised.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

There are NO Posters that agree or support the Klan, but it does seem like the left and especially on this site, they give a complete pass to the mayor, governor who caused this as well as the ANTIFA fascists that came looking for a fight, looking to smash someone's head in. I'm not surprised.

Yes. How many leftist thugs proudly hashtag their desire to punch so-called fascists in the face on FB, Twitter etc. and then cry when their victims fight back.

Hypocrites.

-9 ( +11 / -20 )

Our President is clueless. The events on Saturday in Charlottesville were not about a statue. The residents of Charlottesville are perfectly capable of determining whether a statue in their city should stay or go without any help from the rest of us.  

On Saturday, Charlottesville was invaded by an army of thugs intent on making trouble. And they did, including killing a woman and injuring a number of other people.

What happened in Charlottesville was a blatant display of bigotry on the part of the the alt-right, KKK, militias, et cetera. They marched under Nazi flags, gave Nazi salutes, dressed in KKK regalia, and chanted racist and antisemitic slogans. They also arrived armed and equipped for confrontation. Despite what Donald Trump may say, I didn't see that behavior on the part of the counter-demonstrators. 

What a weak President we have, that he is afraid to call out the alt-right, and instead makes excuses for those losers. I simply do not understand how responsible Americans can continue to work for that man. I would be too ashamed to serve in his administration.

7 ( +17 / -10 )

As usual, Trump's worst enemy is his own big mouth. However, I thought he did raise one interesting question about the taking down of historical statues or monuments. As Trump correctly pointed out, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were also big-time slave owners. Should the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial be destroyed or perhaps re-named? Where does it stop?

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

"They came at each other with clubs ... it was a horrible thing to watch," Trump told reporters...

Probably watching doctored video clips from Alt-right fake news purveyors. This statement coming from the chump that also swears he saw

'Thousands of Muslims in NJ dancing on rooftops and celebrating the destruction of the twin towers'

Rambozo the clown is not fit for office, I said yesterday that it wouldn't take him long to flip-flop again.

What's up Donnie, scared of losing support from White supremacist groups (the majority of your fanbase) ?

4 ( +12 / -8 )

it is never enough for the left. once you let them start to rewrite history they are never going to stop. As someone said on TV, you now who destroys statues and changed history that doesn't suit their world view? ISIS. I've seen them on TV unilaterally destroying centuries old historical artifiacts of cultural significance to the world.

This week Confederate statues, next week Jefferson and Lincoln. Then books, movies, TV, culture, anything they don't like will just be shamed out of existence. It's never enough, so someone will have to take a stand somewhere.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

BLM and Antifa are nothing but thugs and initiated the violence. If not, the whole thing would have been ignored

And the Quakers who marched with BLM and Antifa?

The demonisation of those who stand up against nazis is nothing new. Civil Rights activists were investigated by the FBI and maligned by the press and other commentators back in the day.

To ignore fascism, anti-semitism is to endorse the white supremacists. Trump is the epitome of moral cowardice who has no problem calling out Islamic terrorism. But he is reluctant to put the blame here where it belongs - on these nazis.

Shame on those who support him. Americans died fighting fascsim in WW2. I guess they'd be seen as "thugs" now, according to the right wingers.

2 ( +10 / -8 )

People here act like Antifa are suddenly some courageous Nazi fighters or something. The are not, they violently attack college campuses who schedule conservative speakers in an attempt to get those speeches cancelled due to safety concerns. see the Berkeley riots, were no Nazis there yet they attacked and bloodied innocent people.

Just happened that this time was a few Nazis at the free speech they wanted cancelled. So they now trying to paint themselves as Nazi fighters and all conservatives as Nazis.

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

As Trump correctly pointed out, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were also big-time slave owners. Should the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial be destroyed or perhaps re-named? Where does it stop?

Pulling down statues of controversial figures is nothing new. Remember post Soviet times and the Stalin and Lenin statues?

Or relatively recently the Saddam statues in Iraq?

Or the IRA blowing up Nelson's Pillar in 1966?

Perhaps the Kim statues in the DPRK may come down, one day.

https://japantoday.com/category/world/update-5-trump-loudly-insists-both-sides-to-blame-for-virginia-violence

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Just happened that this time was a few Nazis at the free speech they wanted cancelled. So they now trying to paint themselves as Nazi fighters and all conservatives as Nazis.

More than a few.

Captitulation and appeasement lead to collaboration and subjugation. America is at a crossroads and the line has been drawn.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Shame on those who support him. Americans died fighting fascsim in WW2. I guess they'd be seen as "thugs" now, according to the right wingers.

US vets were assaulted by Antifa at Berkeley

0 ( +10 / -10 )

And the Quakers who marched with BLM and Antifa? 

I'm sure there are a few decent people in those groups, but over all, they are a cancer to our society.

The demonisation of those who stand up against nazis is nothing new. Civil Rights activists were investigated by the FBI and maligned by the press and other commentators back in the day.

I agree, but who's investigating the fascists communists?

To ignore fascism, anti-semitism is to endorse the white supremacists.

Again, I am with you, but what about the ANTIFA scum that harbor those elements, your take please.

Trump is the epitome of moral cowardice who has no problem calling out Islamic terrorism. But he is reluctant to put the blame here where it belongs - on these nazis.

He did, but since the media doesn't like it the way they want him to say it, they will demonize him and let's face it, even if he had condemned what happened in THE most strongest terms, the left still would have complained about something, they have been complaining since he took office and you mean if he had done so in the harshest manner the left would have been satisfied? You bought that line.

Shame on those who support him. Americans died fighting fascsim in WW2. I guess they'd be seen as "thugs" now, according to the right wingers.

What?

-8 ( +7 / -15 )

As Trump correctly pointed out, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were also big-time slave owners. Should the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial be destroyed or perhaps re-named?

General Lee was not just a slave owner. He fought to destroy the union of the United States. He along with that stupid Confederate flag are symbols of animosity toward the US government and its founding principles. That's why Trump and a certain segment of his supporters are reluctant to unequivocally denounce this right wing trash. For them I t always comes back to whatabout BLM, Antifa, yadda yadda.

This week Confederate statues, next week Jefferson and Lincoln

Oh please . . .

4 ( +12 / -8 )

This week Confederate statues, next week Jefferson and Lincoln

Oh please . . .

Great counterpoint. I hadn't thought of that.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

US vets were assaulted by Antifa at Berkeley

There are US vets who support the KKK and those who stand alongside antifa to fight the fascists.

Which side are you on?

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Black Sabbath

You see white supremacy in others opinions just because they differ from your own? Not everything is black and white, but senseless violence is always wrong.

Not being able to engage in dialogue and instead labeing the other as an extremist is one of the main reasons the violence abounds.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

but who's investigating the fascists communists?

Probaably Inspector Clouseau, seeing as there's no such thing.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Ok if you want to "oh please" me, where does it stop with the left? Jefferson and Washington owned slaves, how are they exempt?liberals just starting with the "bad" slave owners to set precedent.

FDR put Japanese in internment camps so take him off our money and remove anything named for him too. White House probably parts built by slaves, it's gone.

Lets just remove the names of every white person in history from everything just to be safe.

the left will never stop and Trump realizes this now. He can't allow liberals to erase their own history.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

There are US vets who support the KKK and those who stand alongside antifa to fight the fascists.

Which side are you on?

I see. So vets who turned out in support of free speech and opposed the Antifa thugs are fascists.

"You're a fascist! She's a fascist! He's a fascist! EVERYONES a fascist!!"

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

@plasticmonkey,

It still doesn't change the fact that Washington and Jefferson were both prominent politicians back in the day and were both wealthy southern slave owners. So why shouldn't we remove any statues or memorials dedicated to them?

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

I don't get how liberals can apply the standard of today and then go back a century or two in history and rename people as "racists". Then use this term to try to wipe these people from existence by destroying monuments and renaming everything.

Total rewrite of history like they do in countries that have regime changes. What should we do name every street, city and school after MLK Jr or a contemporary person of color?

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

50 years ago, the same arguments about counter protesters were being made in the US about Martin Luther King and his followers, the Freedom Riders, and those protesting school integration.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Lets just remove the names of every white person in history from everything just to be safe.

Hyperbole and the sort of paranoid thing that the white supremacists would say. I would have thought you could do better than that.

What should we do name every street, city and school after MLK Jr or a contemporary person of color?

Do you feel threatened by people of color? People who stand up for their rights? People of all walks of life seeking to stamp out the nazi threat?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

No it's not hyperbole or paranoia. The left will never stop once you let them get started rewriting history. The removal of one statue led to the removal of more will lead to the removal of all statues liberals don't agree with, racist or not. Then will use that to move on to the next topic for removal.

No one will answer why Washington and Jefferson are exempt. If slave owner=racist then so are they. You won't answer because you know they aren't exempt and would love to remove them too. but need to build up momentum before you try to remove those because those will show the true motive of all this.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

That's why Trump and a certain segment of his supporters are reluctant to unequivocally denounce this right wing trash.

Look, I think Trump was careful knowing how lustfully and gleefully they try to spin and distort the meaning of every word he says. There are probably some decent and misguided people in both groups, that is definitely true. We cannot paint a broad brush and blindly label everyone in a particular group as bigoted without proof.

Our President is clueless. The events on Saturday in Charlottesville were not about a statue. The residents of Charlottesville are perfectly capable of determining whether a statue in their city should stay or go without any help from the rest of us.  

No, it was the far left that once agains wants and believes it has the moral authority to change history because they don't like it. My question is, where will it end. Because the way they are going now, we might as well get rid of any monuments of George Washington, Lincoln and virtually every founder of this country because the majority of them had slaves.

On Saturday, Charlottesville was invaded by an army of thugs intent on making trouble. And they did, including killing a woman and injuring a number of other people. 

Yes, both sides and the mayor and governor should step down and for NOT allowing the police to do their job to keep the peace, if anything, they are the main reason why this mayhem happened.

What happened in Charlottesville was a blatant display of bigotry on the part of the the alt-right, KKK, militias, et cetera. They marched under Nazi flags, gave Nazi salutes, dressed in KKK regalia, and chanted racist and antisemitic slogans. They also arrived armed and equipped for confrontation.

As well as the fascists and communists that believe NO ONE has the right to freedom of speech if it's not in line with theirs and they will use any means necessary to achieve these goals and aligning themselves with other radicals like the BLM to push their radical agenda, all these groups are disgraceful and should be deported out of this country.

Despite what Donald Trump may say, I didn't see that behavior on the part of the counter-demonstrators. 

Really? Allow me to show you.

https://youtu.be/rklXUPr1txQ

What a weak President we have, that he is afraid to call out the alt-right, and instead makes excuses for those losers. I simply do not understand how responsible Americans can continue to work for that man. I would be too ashamed to serve in his administration.

What a weak governor we have to allow a mob of stupid Nazis and fascists to congregate together and fight it out and cause further damage to race relations, nothing happens without reason.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Should the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial be destroyed or perhaps re-named? Where does it stop?

Memorials are, as their name implies, memorial. They symbolize an ideal that a man represents more than they honor the man itself - it is the ideal that must be continually striven for. Many founding fathers were slave owners, and that is a perpetual black mark on them in history books and academic studies - but it is not what they are remembered for. The stubborn bravery of Washington in face of relentless British attacks; the eloquent logic of Jefferson - inscribed in the walls of his memorial - that is why these exist.

Long dead men are mere symbols. What do tributes to men who were traitors to their country in order to maintain a system of chattel slavery symbolize?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

You know when I read articles like this...It doesn't feel like you live in 2017. Feels like we going backwards.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Trump, the racist, at it again.

"In his remarks on Tuesday, Trump also sympathized with protesters seeking to keep Lee's statue in place but offered no equivalent remarks for those who favored its removal."

Exactly! And at David Duke's behest Trump repudiated his supposed condemnation of the KKK and White Supremacists after three days of being pressured (only took Duke half a day to get what he wanted), and now it's "everyone's fault" again. The man immediately took a black man to task, by name, on Twitter, for quitting his job; but the KKK and Nazis? He can't say they are bad, because he needs, and wants them. The man is a bigot and has no place in the White House.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

other radicals like the BLM to push their radical agenda, all these groups are disgraceful and should be deported out of this country.

The agenda to highlight cops murdering black folk? The agenda to stand up against nazis? Against discrimination?

And now you want to deport them? Sounds a lot like the old "go back to Africa" mantra. Ugh.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

bass4funk: "What a weak governor we have to allow a mob of stupid Nazis and fascists to congregate together and fight it out"

Well, at least you can admit that's what they were there for, and that it's their fault. That's a step forward, I guess. You'll back track, of course, when you realise you are speaking AGAINST Nazis, but hey.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

have trouble understanding how US white supremacists or nationalists or whatever can be called Fascists.I  Lazy shorthand that has all sorts of connotations that don't apply to their ideology.  Also I didn't see Trump say that their ideologies had moral equivalence.  Just that both sides behaved badly and should bear some of the blame for what happened.  Whatever your view may be, seems to me that both sides on this argument should have the same right to free speech and protest, whatever the content of that might be.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/15/david-duke-reaction-trump-news-conference/570517001/

David Duke, former Grand Piano (or something) is happy.

Richard Spencer, malfunctioning android, is also happy.

Move along, folks. Nothing to see.

Racism, anti-semitism and murder.

History! It's being re-written as we speak!

It's not the nazis. It's the people who thwarted them.

B-b-b-but the statues! What about the statues?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Is that re-writing history?

Did any of the idolaters here have problems with those removals?

yes, actually it is rewriting history. it is irrelevant to the USA because we dont do cleansing as part of regime changes and we lost no war that requires us to remove anything. There is no time limit and this issue can go through the courts or a popular vote of the people who live in that area. You do know there is a statue of Lenin on Fremont, Washington right?

These statues have been there for 100 or more years, why this exact moment in time? (hint: because they want to say if they arent removed, non supporting people are racist! Its a good narrative for libs who have no agenda) People are so emboldened now by this narrative that they simply go and pull them down and vandalize them rather than wait for the democratic process. But, oh let me guess, the democratic process doesnt apply to anything Nazi and/or racist (the new words for all conservatives). Especially doesnt apply to statues of people who are retroactively being called racists 150 years later.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

Just watched that press conference, pretty terrible! Has to be one of the worst, most cringe-worthy I have seen in my lifetime.

Asking a journo to define who are/what is alt right, seriously? Saying that neo Nazis were bad but so were those protesting against them as they didn't even have a 'permit'? That's the potus?

Defending the indefensible has to be a new low in Trump's presidency (nothing to do with Lee's statue removal btw).

5 ( +10 / -5 )

Trump Father was High up in the KKK when he was growing up

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Trump, the racist, at it again. 

But do you have proof? Turn off the Daily Kos and MoveOn for a moment, where's the proof.

"In his remarks on Tuesday, Trump also sympathized with protesters seeking to keep Lee's statue in place but offered no equivalent remarks for those who favored its removal."

Because he knows if he does that is going up a slippery slope, so let me ask you this since liberals live in a giant Collective echo-chamber, what happens if they want to remove Lincoln memorial or remodel Mt. Vernon? If he defends them that makes him all of a sudden a racist? Liberals NEVER think about the overall ramification of all of this.

Exactly! And at David Duke's behest Trump repudiated his supposed condemnation of the KKK and White Supremacists after three days of being pressured (only took Duke half a day to get what he wanted), and now it's "everyone's fault" again.

Ok and Obama took 4 days in Ferguson to react, so why the hypocrisy? Please explain your way out of that besides that a Democratic president gets a pass and a Republican president doesn't.

The man immediately took a black man to task, by name, on Twitter, for quitting his job; but the KKK and Nazis? He can't say they are bad, because he needs, and wants them. The man is a bigot and has no place in the White House.

That Black man was working with him in his administration, of course it's more personal. NOT because he's Black, you guys just can't wait to inject race into everything. I think the left are more racist and intolerant than even the Neo Nazis, they bring it up constantly! So what about the White guy in Trump's job council that also left yesterday in protest? Why you guys don't mention that? Why are you guys just focusing on just one person that left his jobs council?

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Of course there was violence on both sides. Anyone watching the various scenes of riot and chaos can easily see that both the alt Left and the alt Right came prepared to do battle. No one should be at all surprised by what is occurring because this is the logical destination of identity politics. Get used to it because it will continue as American governance descends into a racial spoils system. And the media don't care about the damage they cause to the country because the goal for them is #Resistance.

But Trump is impulsive and allows the media to bait him. That is a major character flaw they exploit very cynically. That's on him. So now the fake news are actually claiming that he is defending White nationalists. Which of course is crazy. The media ignores the fact that he has denounced bigotry and racism numerous times. They only want to believe that he is what they want him to be.

I am so sick of all of the racial animosity, identity fetishism, and the media's destructive race baiting. No one even talks about building a color blind society anymore. America is doomed to a cycle of identity revenge politics turning the nations motto upside down - it should more correctly stated to be - "Out of one nation, many".

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

The agenda to highlight cops murdering black folk? The agenda to stand up against nazis? Against discrimination?

You conveniently omit their agenda to murder white police officers in revenge for people they thought were guilty being found innocent by a court of law.

You know, the group who incited a guy named Micah Johnson to murder these officers. The group that Barack Obama did not avow or place any blame on whatsoever, and the group who in fact he invited to the White House where he heaped praise upon its leadership.

That evening, during a Black Lives Matter rally, Johnson opened fire on Dallas police officers, shooting a dozen officers, five of whom died from their wounds. Before the police were forced to shoot him dead, he told them that he was deliberately targeting "white people, especially white officers" and that the Black Lives Matter movement had inspired his actions.

But no, it wouldnt be racist or discriminatory to target only white people, would it?

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

U.S. President Donald Trump unabashedly insisted on Tuesday that both left- and right-wing extremists resorted to violence during a weekend rally by white nationalists in Virginia, and that some present were peacefully protesting plans to remove a Confederate monument when the upheaval began.

....."They came at each other with clubs ... it was a horrible thing to watch," Trump said during what was supposed to be an announcement about his administration's infrastructure policy. He also said left-wing protesters "came violently attacking the other group."

Trump is correct, BOTH sides drew extremists who were only there to physically attack their opposition. He was also correct when he said that ALL of the violence must stop.

People are either against violence, or they advocate for some violence but only from those who views they share.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

I kept watching the two other people in the frame, smiling on either side of the POTUS as he defended neonazis. At several points I thought Mr. Mnuchin looked like his smile was covering that he was vomiting just a little into his mouth - but then he just kept standing there, hard smiling. How will Elaine Chao and Steven Mnuchin react now, now that they've had a chance to mentally process what they just were part of?

3 ( +9 / -6 )

"By saying he is not taking sides, Donald Trump clearly is,"

Wow. How do you argue against that??

2 ( +6 / -4 )

bass4funk: Proof could be taped inside your eye-lids and you'd refuse to see it. Trump's immigration policy, his statements on Mexico, you name it... all you do is shrug and see it as something else.

But hey, here's one of Trump's supporters, and a man he REFUSES to publicly denounce:

"Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one (expletive)-lover named Heather Heyer,” the recorded message says. “James Fields hail victory. It’s men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again.”

That is but one of many Trump will not name, but will turn around and publicly name a black man for quitting a company and call him all sorts of names. Well done, bass!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

bass4funk: "So what about the White guy in Trump's job council that also left yesterday in protest?"

Sorry... what were Trump's tweets against that guy, again?

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Will the left be going after books next?

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

HE STILL BLAMES BOTH SIDES, screams CNN.com in huge font. They are certainly going all in on this to fill the airtime/headlines that the loss of their Russia collusion narrative freed up.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

I think we all know Trump isn't a Diplomat. He says things in the way that he see's them. So in this case, a fight breaks out between two opposing groups. Simple right, both sides were to blame ? The real blame, should lay with the Policing authority, for allowing both groups to be near each other.

As to the Racism, etc behind all of this. Perphaps it's time for a review of the Constitution - particularly the Freedom of Speech, amending it so as to restrict the preaching of Hate and to bring it up to date to the 21st Century rather than the 18th.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

The KKK: The third and current manifestation of the KKK emerged after WWII, in the form of localized and isolated groups that use the KKK name. They have focused on opposition to the Civil Rights Movement, often using violence and murder to suppress activists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

BLM: Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism towards black people. BLM regularly holds protests against police killings of black people and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

Yep, let's just lump them together as "both sides are bad" and leave it at that.

The good news is that we're seeing a lot of conservatives start to echo the talking points of the white supremacists, especially some of the people on here. Sunlight really is the best disinfectant. I remember someone here even said he'd never rent a house to a black person because they are black, but felt there was nothing racist in that at all. Imagine that.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

HE STILL BLAMES BOTH SIDES, screams CNN.com in huge font. They are certainly going all in on this to fill the airtime/headlines that the loss of their Russia collusion narrative freed up.

CNN lost all credibility long ago. They even omitted the words of thanks from the mother of the hit and run attack to Trump.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

http://abc11.com/politics/deputies-arrest-protester-who-helped-pull-down-durham-confederate-statue/2309889/

So I suppose there will be protests and fundraising requests related to the arrest of the first of many people who decided on their own to start destroying government owned property.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

The KKK: The third and current manifestation of the KKK emerged after WWII, in the form of localized and isolated groups that use the KKK name. They have focused on opposition to the Civil Rights Movement, often using violence and murder to suppress activists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

BLM: Black Lives Matter (BLM) is an international activist movement, originating in the African-American community, that campaigns against violence and systemic racism towards black people. BLM regularly holds protests against police killings of black people and broader issues of racial profiling, police brutality, and racial inequality in the United States criminal justice system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

Yep, let's just lump them together as "both sides are bad" and leave it at that. 

How many murders have been committed in the names of each in the past few years?

Which group openly calls for the killing of cops?

0 ( +10 / -10 )

Proof could be taped inside your eye-lids and you'd refuse to see it.

Sorry, I can see, I lived and seen enough racism, I think the left are typically UNWILLING to see, hear or even accept two points of view-EVER! And as much as the Neo Nazis are a thorn in everyone else's side, put the Trump hate to the side for one moment and try to think rationally on this, the ANTIFA came there to fight, they sure didn't go there to have a logical and rational debate, that's for sure.

Trump's immigration policy, his statements on Mexico, you name it... all you do is shrug and see it as something else, while looking at a couple of emails on the wrong computer by Clinton as a crime of treason. 

Yes, I know, the left wants the entire country to be a mess like California and NY with NO immigration laws, out of control crime, allow everyone to come in, have the tax payers foot the bills, give these people work permits, visas and can just jump in front of the line ahead of people that worked hard and followed the rules to obtain legal citizenship. No wonder thousands of people are leaving that State every month.

But hey, here's one of Trump's supporters, and a man he REFUSES to publicly denounce: 

"Nothing makes us more proud at the KKK than we see white patriots such as James Fields Jr, age 20, taking his car and running over nine communist anti-fascist, killing one (expletive)-lover named Heather Heyer,” the recorded message says. “James Fields hail victory. It’s men like you that have made the great white race strong and will be strong again.”

So what's your point? So if then if you are a Bernie supporter, then it's safe to say you are a socialist you believe in taking other peoples money and you hate the 1st Amendment. People should not be allowed to say what they want and you embrace fascism. Admit it!

That is but one of many Trump will not name, but will turn around and publicly name a black man for quitting a company and call him all sorts of names. Well done, bass!

What about the Whites that quit yesterday? Why the hypocrisy, Smith?

Sorry... what were Trump's tweets against that guy, again?

So based on a tweet that makes Trump a racist? ROFL

I just realize as long as the left keep leaning on race as a crutch, they will always remain in the forest as a party.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

50% of american people follow him. that would equate to a failed human rights state when you consider gun crime, violence, robbery, drug addiction and illegal invasion of sovereign countries. i prey to jesus everyday that the other half can change our nation to a peaceful loving, accepting nation.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

No one will answer why Washington and Jefferson are exempt. If slave owner=racist then so are they. You won't answer because you know they aren't exempt and would love to remove them too.

Easy answer. Washington and Jefferson did not fight to secede from the Union. They owned slaves, but they did not wage war to defend slavery. The totality of Washington and Jefferson's contribution to the country and to history transcends the fact that they were slave owners. You cannot say the same thing about Lee. He is celebrated strictly for his actions as a military man fighting for secessionism and slavery.

So, no, I would not secretly "love to remove" statues of Washington and Jefferson. I was, by the way, opposed to the protests against the Woodrow Wilson Center at Princeton. Even though Wilson was horribly racist, that fact is not central to his legacy. Nobody celebrates Wilson because he was a racist.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

bass4funk: "Sorry, I can see, I lived and seen enough racism, I think the left are typically UNWILLING to see, hear or even accept two points of view-EVER!"

Sorry, but you clearly do not know or have not seen anything but what YOU call racism if you follow your "I've seen racism" with "the left are unwilling to accept two points of view". There is no point of view to accept with racism. NONE! That you cannot accept that is quite telling, albeit it it always has been given whom you support.

"put the Trump hate to the side for one moment and try to think rationally on this"

There is no "rational" when it comes to Trump; he REFUSED to call out a person and group who are LITERALLY happy about the woman being murdered, and who call speeches ignoring of questions and calls to condemn them a great victory for them!

"So what's your point?"

Same point you've been told for days: Trump refuses to call these people out by name and condemn them, and in fact, wants their support. He's a racist bigot. You asked for proof, are given it, and can only ask "What's your point?" and give an uncomfortable "ROFL" inevitably.

"So based on a tweet that makes Trump a racist? ROFL"

When your deflection is "what about the white guy that quit" when pointing out that Trump can immediately, by name, condemn a black man who quit and there is no tweet for the white guy and you are called out on that, that is but more proof, yes. (and there's the "ROLF" to prove you know it!). I point out that Trump called out the black man who quit, you said, "What about the white man?" I asked "where did Trump call him out?" and you have no answer. Well done again, bass... speaking of the forest and all, that's a tree blocking your view.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Once again, WHO has Trump not called out by name and condemned?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

in this trump is basically correct, all fights take two. the problems is that all preferences can be characterized as a prejudice and the left has cloaked acting on their prejudices under the blanket of "political correctness".

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

Will statues of General Sherman be removed? 10,000 slaves were set free as a result of his march to the sea, yet paradoxically, he was a rabid white supremacist.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Trump went on an off topic rant asking the press corps, "...where does it stop?" To that, Seth Meyer's retorted, "Where does it stop? Buddy, we've been asking ourselves that question since January."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcF940yTY6Q

3 ( +7 / -4 )

JFK was a notorious womanizer who cheated on his wife. Will the myriad buildings, airports, streets etc around the US now be re-named?

You just know the insanity will continue, and this too, will become an issue soon.

Where does it stop, indeed.

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

I feel like I'm watching white supremacists pull off some kind of coup. The conservatives here and ones I see on other boards are echoing the same sentiments as the KKK, but they don't seem to realize it. It's like they feel there is some line that they aren't crossing since they don't join these groups, so they can say similar things and there shouldn't be any danger from it. And the more you challenge them, the more their anger grows, until they become this mouth frothing proxy white supremacist....who is a nice guy.

First of all, these events are planned for a reason: to outrage and provoke. And if you get enough people at a protest, all you need is one to cross the line then start rolling the cameras. It's showtime. They promote speaking engagements with blatant racists then smile when the talk of protests start. To them, it's an opportunity. The worst case scenario (for them) is no protests and the speech goes on as planned without a hitch. That would be useless.

Add to that the fact that BLM is a movement, not a group per se. You and I could have a rally tomorrow and tweet out #BLM and technically we are part of BLM. Then we can start throwing rocks through windows and scuffle with the police, and I can 100% guarantee that Fox News the next day would have you as the leading story with "#BLM violence." The right-wing media will make no distinction. The violence will be linked to the movement overall.

Look for the regional leaders and the messages they give and that's where you'll find the purpose of the group. Then compare that to the KKK/neo-Nazis/White Supremacists. Groups can't control all of their members, but their message can still be clear. Grouping them together is just straight-up propaganda.

Finally, the KKK doesn't get a free pass. Ever. We know who they are and we know they are not good people. Every single person in the organization has announced to the world his prejudice. Every one. The BLM movement is supported by a vast majority who denounce violence (Obama has, BLM leaders have, posters here have) and encourage peaceful resistance. That is not a message of hate.

The KKK is the opposite. Their appearance in things like the white robes represent a threat to people seeing it, and that's the intent. So even if they hold a protest and just stand there and the world walks by, they still need to be denounced. Because that's what you to hate groups. And you never stop until they are completely marginalized, then you tell yourself you should never forget. That's what Trump and some of his base don't get. You don't get to brush aside the KKK because you've got "more important" things to say about BLM.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

Idiots with stupid views can speak their mind, and people opposed to those stupid views can also speak their mind.

The leader of country that has been through what the US has in amending and working through integration and the institutionalised racism and so on has a simple job to say clearly and without reservation;

"While we have a constitution that protects the freedom of speech, we also have one that protects peoples rights and freedom regardless of race, gender, sexuality, gender identity and religious affiliation or lack there of, we condemn in the strongest terms white nationalist and supremest groups, they are not in line and have no place with the inclusive aims of our country. The idea that any American would promote the values of a group like the Nazi's is abhorrent, when Americans of all races worked through their issues to defeat this menace against all humankind, we don't need to repeat the battles and mistakes of our parents and grandparents. We implore all protest is non-violent, and our deepest sympathies are extended to the family of the young women who lost her life as well as those injured, and commit to the perpetrators of violence being dealt with to the full extent of the law"

Or something like that.

Honestly Im flabbergasted that a country that some of us looked to as pushing forward on civil rights in so many areas is so quickly turning into the mess we see now.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Civil Rights activists were investigated by the FBI and maligned by the press and other commentators back in the day

I think you're wrong about the press here. They ignored it mostly until German Shepards and fire hoses turned up in the evening news and then most Americans got behind the Civil Rights movement.

Furthermore, JFK's FBI were sent to investigate the disappearance of the three Civil Rights activists, and many other cases.

You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

You don't get to brush aside the KKK because you've got "more important" things to say about BLM.

The point is that the KKK has no 'importance'. They are not a large portion of Trump's base, it was maybe 50 guys and 1 guy with a brand new flag he bought from the internet at this rally. There are like 5000 of them in the entire USA.

Trump has disavowed them over and over and has no relationship with them. Trump supporters have done the same. Yet any time that a racist and a non racist come to the same conclusion on an issue that the left doesnt like, you try to call the non racist a racist to silence them.

I am against removing these statues because I know it will start something that will never stop, and large portions of our history will be unnecessarily erased. The KKK has another reason why they dont want these statues removed. All we will do is go on a witchhunt to go back and classify everyone as a racist. Look at Sherman as the person above says. What to do about him and his monuments in the North? Is it ok that he was a white supremacist just because he fought on the 'right' side?

Yes they will remove Jefferson as well, they already been trying for years due to his 'racism' and 'misogyny' and that he is supposedly a rapist (cant make this stuff up):

https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/local/students-protest-thomas-jefferson-statue-call-for-its-removal/article_8c1d6bb2-6d57-11e5-9051-17eb054002a6.html

It doesnt make me a racist by desiring the same result as KKK members in this specific statue issue, as I desire that result for a different REASON. It doesnt make Nazis or racists any less bad or diminish what is said about them while also calling out Antifa/BLM for their own violence.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

@Clamenza

Stop the lies!

How many murders have been committed in the names of each in the past few years?

1) BLM = 0

2) White Supremacists/Neo Nazis = 49 homicides in 26 attacks from 2000 to 2016.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fbi-dhs-report-warned-of-threat-posed-by-white-supremacists/ar-AAq9tQv

Which group openly calls for the killing of cops?

1) BLM = Never because you can't find one direct reference to the leaders of BLM calling on people to kill police.

Micah Johnson and Gavin Long (the two individuals that attacked cops) even though an exhaustive investigative report determined that Long had not attended any of the Black Lives Matter demonstrations in Baton Rouge after Sterling’s death and that he believed protests were a waste of time.

Several cops have tried to sue BLM for the same false claims that you are trying to make and every case was thrown out of court because they were proven false.

2) White Supremacists/Neo Nazis = Why would they? It would be harder for some of them to hide.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/

3 ( +10 / -7 )

@clamenza

They even omitted the words of thanks from the mother of the hit and run attack to Trump.

Yeah, the mother thanked him after he caved under pressure to give a second speech calling out the White supremacist specifically. When he caved in again to White supermacists in the third speech and recanted then it would make sense to omit the thanks because it is no longer warranted.

2 ( +9 / -7 )

Micah Johnson and Gavin Long (the two individuals that attacked cops) even though an exhaustive investigative report determined that Long had not attended any of the Black Lives Matter demonstrations in Baton Rouge after Sterling’s death and that he believed protests were a waste of time.

Funny you only mentioned Long, what about Johnson? Did he attend the BLM rally and then shoot police officers saying he wanted to kill white people and that BLM inspired him to do it?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

@BlackLabel

The point is that the KKK has no 'importance'. They are not a large portion of Trump's base, it was maybe 50 guys and 1 guy with a brand new flag he bought from the internet at this rally. There are like 5000 of them in the entire USA.

Faulty Logic once again! The fact that there only 5000-8000 KKK members doesn't mean that a large portion of Trump's base is not racist. The KKK membership numbers are hurt by the many other groups encroaching on their ideological turf. Folks with strong anti-immigration/racial views can find many more organizations to affiliate with today, both in the political mainstream and on the fringes. That rally was a hodge podge of white hate groups.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

@Blacklabel

Funny you only mentioned Long, what about Johnson? Did he attend the BLM rally and then shoot police officers saying he wanted to kill white people and that BLM inspired him to do it?

It isn't funny because Johnson ambushed police at a peaceful BLM rally in Texas. Common sense would tell you that he attended a BLM rally.

Cops from both scenes (Johnson and Long) tried to sue BLM, and all the cases were thrown out of court because it couldn't proven that BLM broke the law.

In fact, the BLM leaders that were arrested at protests across the country have been winning settlements against the police for unlawful arrests because they never broke the law.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Yeah but people are so hung up on the fact that he didnt disavow those 50 KKK people that I thought this is now about the KKK. Hasnt disavowed David Duke today, even though he disavowed yesterday and all the way back to the year 2000.

The left keeps moving the goalposts and changing names of things. One minute its specifically the KKK, next min its actual Nazis, next min its white supremacists, next min it is 'racists', then talking about the' base', then all Trump supporters again.

All those groups are different and have different members with different idea, concerns and agendas. It would help to know which groups are accused of which things and how Trump is supposedly connected to them, even though he disavowed them all. No one will answer me who he still needs to disavow, or disavow AGAIN.

Folks with strong anti-immigration/racial views 

Oh so now anyone with strong anti-immigration views is a racist too? Even ILLEGAL immigration?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

That rally was a hodge podge of white hate groups.

I agree. But what about the counter protesters? Here's a list from a Reuters news article about the vandals that tore down a statue in North Carolina.

Triangle People’s Assembly

Workers World Party

Industrial Workers of the World

Democratic Socialists of America

anti-fascist movement

what I want to know is why is this new movement going after symbols only. Why not go after the heart of this so called White Supremacy? Particularly, the government and their wars and war machines?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

It isn't funny because Johnson ambushed police at a peaceful BLM rally in Texas. Common sense would tell you that he attended a BLM rally.

No I was expecting you to tell me he attended as you made clear to mention that Long did not without mentioning Johnson. It cant be a peaceful rally when 12 cops get shot and 5 killed. Thats common sense. Johnson was there, got incited by BLM rhetoric and then did what he did. Maybe BLM can escape responsibility in court for now, but they definitely played a key role in it all.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

How do you "insult" bloodshed?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

We saw why Trump has avoided press conferences -- he cannot handle them! His petulance is utterly child-like. All he can ever say is "What about XXX?" As in what about Obama - Hillary - the Democrats - the liberals - (and this time) the alt-left ... going on a counterattack without answering the question. Congratulations, sir, you are succeeding in uniting the American people -- AGAINST YOU!!

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Easy answer. Washington and Jefferson did not fight to secede from the Union.

But they had slaves. Washington had over 200 and Jefferson fathered many kids with his slave, Lincoln ONLY freed the slaves in order to keep the union together, not out of the kindness of his heart, so are their monuments next on the chopping block?

They owned slaves, but they did not wage war to defend slavery.

Phew...ok, but at least they didn't wage war. Owning is ok, but waging war is bad-gotcha!

The totality of Washington and Jefferson's contribution to the country and to history transcends the fact that they were slave owners. You cannot say the same thing about Lee. He is celebrated strictly for his actions as a military man fighting for secessionism and slavery.

Uh-huh....ROFL So now we are being selective once again in our outrage?

So, no, I would not secretly "love to remove" statues of Washington and Jefferson. I was, by the way, opposed to the protests against the Woodrow Wilson Center at Princeton. Even though Wilson was horribly racist, that fact is not central to his legacy. Nobody celebrates Wilson because he was a racist.

Ok, on that last part I will give you credit. I just wish you could see the hypocrisy swirling with this particular issue, maybe Trump could have come out a little faster on this, but I don't think it would have made a difference to be honest, the hatred for the man is so deep, doesn't really matter what he does, it will always be seen as negative.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Trump:

"Before I make a statement, I like to know the facts"

That's too ridiculous to be funny.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Leftists now want the statue of Theodore Roosevelt removed from a New York museum as he is racist and offensive to African Americans and Native Americans.

When is this going to end? says Trump. Sadly, never once the first capitulation to this is made.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

@BlackLabel

Johnson was there, got incited by BLM rhetoric and then did what he did.

Faulty logic! You making a big leap in logic because of it was true then the police officers who tried to sue BLM for those same assumptions would have one. It never in went to trial. It shows your opinion on this topic is baseless.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The good news is that we're seeing a lot of conservatives start to echo the talking points of the white supremacists, especially some of the people on here.

Same as it ever was. 50/60 years of civil rights and still the smears are being thrown about.

Still; it's good to know who the enemy is. And make no mistake, this time round, the nazis and their supporters have made their position crystal clear.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Seems any President prior to 1972, especially slave owners or those involved with wars with Native Americans (or any foreign country other than England) are now at risk of being identified as a 'racist'. I guess we will have to review each President and see if their contributions outside of their supposed racism give them a pass or not.

The same goes for any political or war based historical figure who isnt alive to protect themselves. Racists all, until exonerated based on the 2017 definition of racism.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

it is irrelevant to the USA because we dont do cleansing as part of regime changes and we lost no war that requires us to remove anything.

Apart from your people who ran out from Saigon in 75. Leaving behind allies to face the consequences.

The US has long lectured the rest of the world on how to behave, so it is quite relevant.

Statues go up and come down, all throughout history, your Stalins and your Lenins are no different.

There does need to be a regime change and peace keepers sent into the US, no doubt. Like the breakup of Yugoslavia, we are now seeing ethnic violence and the rise of the far right. How far will it go?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

 the nazis and their supporters have made their position crystal clear.

So who would these 'supporters' of Nazis be exactly? every person who is against the world view of the liberals? every Trump supporter? every white person? or just the actual individual people who really do support the idea of Nazism?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Grown men carrying tiki torches and shouting "You will not replace us / Jews will not replace us" should not and can not be ignored.

Unfortunately, there will be no condemnation - it doesn't fit into the hate-filled narrative.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If I pull up some number that tells me that black people have killed way more than say Asian Americans...does that make my assumption right that Black People are dangerous and Asians are not? That's literally your thinking turned around.

Wrong. Unless you think all whites are members of the KKK and all blacks are part of BLM, that makes no sense.

Not to mention that you're making some seriously flawed assumptions regarding crime rates/race etc.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

North Carolina KKK leader: 'I'm sorta glad' people got hit, woman died in Charlottesville

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/15/north-carolina-kkk-leader-im-sorta-glad-people-got-hit-girl-died-in-charlottesville.html

I'm hoping this story turns out to be untrue. About half of what he says sounds just like a Trump supporter.

"We were out there and I seen a lot of communist flags and anti-fascist and we're going to see more stuff like this," Moore said. "White people are getting fed up with the double-standard setup in America today by the controlled press."

Sound familiar?

"We should have been able to go out there and have our protest and it should have been peaceful but it's the anti-fascist and the communists continuing to try and stop us,"

5 ( +7 / -2 )

There does need to be a regime change and peace keepers sent into the US, no doubt. Like the breakup of Yugoslavia, we are now seeing ethnic violence and the rise of the far right. How far will it go?

Oh please please please add that the Democratic Party agenda/platform for 2020 as part of their new identity politics push. They will never win another election, even a local one, for 100 years. So lets just overthrow the elected President as a 'regime change' and then send in the United Nations to occupy the USA due to ethnic violence. Can just bulldoze every Trump Tower and hotel while we are at it as part of the regime change.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

So who would these 'supporters' of Nazis be exactly? every person who is against the world view of the liberals? every Trump supporter?

Those who went on the march to espouse their racist ideology and those who give them a free pass and try and blame nazism on civil rights/BLM.

every white person? or just the actual individual people who really do support the idea of Nazism?

Good grief. People from all walks of life oppose racism. That you should suggest every white person is a supporter of nazis says more about you than it does me.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

I feel like I'm watching white supremacists pull off some kind of coup.

You just noticed, they've been doing that for over 150 years now.

The conservatives here and ones I see on other boards are echoing the same sentiments as the KKK, but they don't seem to realize it. It's like they feel there is some line that they aren't crossing since they don't join these groups, so they can say similar things and there shouldn't be any danger from it.

As much as I don't like these thugs, the ANTIFA and BLM scare me more and the reason for that is, these people would beat the crap out of me in an instant if I did'n't believe as they do, because fascists don't care about other peoples civil liberties, you have to fall in line and think and believe in the way they do or you're going to get knocked upside the head.

And the more you challenge them, the more their anger grows, until they become this mouth frothing proxy white supremacist....who is a nice guy.

Any racial group would feel like, ANY of them. Interesting, but if someone would say, all Muslims are terrorists, the left would come unglued, but here it's ok. Label an entire group without any shred of evidence as all one collective. Again, trying not to make mistakes and already denouncing the violence, it's never good enough for the left or the MSM.

> First of all, these events are planned for a reason: to outrage and provoke.

Yes, both sides know this and don't care.

And if you get enough people at a protest, all you need is one to cross the line then start rolling the cameras. It's showtime. They promote speaking engagements with blatant racists then smile when the talk of protests start. To them, it's an opportunity.

The same goes for the ANTIFA, being young, naive and a rebellion is a heck of a recruiting tool.

The worst case scenario (for them) is no protests and the speech goes on as planned without a hitch. That would be useless.

Add to that the fact that BLM is a movement, not a group per se. You and I could have a rally tomorrow and tweet out #BLM and technically we are part of BLM. Then we can start throwing rocks through windows and scuffle with the police, and I can 100% guarantee that Fox News the next day would have you as the leading story with "#BLM violence." The right-wing media will make no distinction. The violence will be linked to the movement overall.

The BLM and ANTIFA two peas in a pod.

Look for the regional leaders and the messages they give and that's where you'll find the purpose of the group. Then compare that to the KKK/neo-Nazis/White Supremacists. Groups can't control all of their members, but their message can still be clear. Grouping them together is just straight-up propaganda.

So why didn't the mayor and that idiot jerk McAuliffe allow the police to intervene? They could have stopped this and they didn't.

Finally, the KKK doesn't get a free pass. Ever. We know who they are and we know they are not good people.

What about the ones that were misguided?

Every single person in the organization has announced to the world his prejudice. Every one. The BLM movement is supported by a vast majority who denounce violence (Obama has, BLM leaders have, posters here have) and encourage peaceful resistance. That is not a message of hate. 

They're all terrorist groups. Any group that advocates killing police officers is a true terrorist.

The KKK is the opposite. Their appearance in things like the white robes represent a threat to people seeing it, and that's the intent. So even if they hold a protest and just stand there and the world walks by, they still need to be denounced. Because that's what you to hate groups. And you never stop until they are completely marginalized, then you tell yourself you should never forget. That's what Trump and some of his base don't get. You don't get to brush aside the KKK because you've got "more important" things to say about BLM.

No one is doing that, however, the left refuse to point fingers at the real perpetrators and thats the mayor and governor. Why is that? Because they're Democrats?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@plasticmonkey

"Easy answer. Washington and Jefferson did not fight to secede from the Union. They owned slaves, but they did not wage war to defend slavery."

True. Washington and Jefferson did not fight to secede from the Union, but the foundation they laid which turned a blind eye to slavery made the Civil War a few decades later a reality. In addition you could argue that Washington and Jefferson as politicians had more to do with starting the Civil War due to the way the U.S. Constitution was written than Lee and Jackson did as soldiers.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Good grief. People from all walks of life oppose racism. That you should suggest every white person is a supporter of nazis says more about you than it does me.

Thats what Im hearing in here everyday. Trump and all his supporters are racists. There are so many racist people that the USA needs to have external peacekeepers sent in and have the elected officials removed from office.

Also, anyone that agrees with any point a racist makes, even for a different reason, is also a racist according to this site. Glad you clarified it is only the people who went on the march, that is much easier to deal with.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

I suppose a president with poor approval ratings can't afford to piss off key elements of his base. Maybe people around him did the maths and weighed up fully laying into the racists thinking he could appeal to the decent, but came to the conclusion decent people would never like him anyway given his history.

That's probably the most charitable you can be towards Trump here. He's cynical rather than something more sinister.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

No one is doing that, however, the left refuse to point fingers at the real perpetrators and thats the mayor and governor

The real perps are the mayor and governor? So the real perps aren't white supremacists aren't the white supremacists bludgeoning and running over counter-protesters?

Why, because they're Democrats?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Thats what Im hearing in here everyday. Trump and all his supporters are racists.

Nope. Not from me. I believe Trump is a racist, the nazis are racist, the nazi supporters are racist and maybe a few diehard Trumpologists are racist. But there where plenty of people who voted for Trump who wanted change and not the same Republican/Democrat corporate outlook that took care of the comfortable middle classes and wealthy and left the poor where they've always been.

They were lied to by previous administrations and they've been lied to again by this one.

There are so many racist people that the USA needs to have external peacekeepers sent in and have the elected officials removed from office.

Difficult for you to see as a US citizen but maybe it's time someone else policed America. Give it a break from being policeman of the world. Because it doesn't seem to be healing its divisions after all this time. The ethnic conflicts and ancient hatreds still exist.

Also, anyone that agrees with any point a racist makes, even for a different reason, is also a racist according to this site. Glad you clarified it is only the people who went on the march, that is much easier to deal with.

If it walks like a duck... seriously; which site are you on about now? Which racist?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

No one is doing that, however, the left refuse to point fingers at the real perpetrators and thats the mayor and governor. Why is that? Because they're Democrats?

Democrats are not left. They are a centerist neo-liberal party who are marginally "better" than the Republicans.

the ANTIFA and BLM scare me more and the reason for that is, these people would beat the crap out of me in an instant if I did'n't believe as they do, because fascists don't care about other peoples civil liberties, you have to fall in line and think and believe in the way they do or you're going to get knocked upside the head.

Fake news. "These people".... tsk, tsk.

Hey, it's ok. You become used to nazism; accept it as a daily part of your life. You become used to the police shooting your people. Of course you're going to be scared of a change.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@Blacklabel

Oh so now anyone with strong anti-immigration views is a racist too? Even ILLEGAL immigration?

Nope! However, if you or the groups that we are talking about criticize high levels of immigration and typically confront or harass individual immigrants and their supporters, anti-immigrant hate groups generally go further by pushing racist propaganda.

That makes anyone a racist!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

@Toasted

Agreed. This whole debate has been polarising.

Certainly, there were a couple of posters on this site with whom I disagreed but respected, but now regard as beyond hope....

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Our resident low rumbling noise has lost his mind if he thinks the Charlotteville Mayor and North Carolina governor are the 'real perpetrators' when they had no involvement with setting up the Unite the Right rally on UVA's campus. Why not blame the actual political figures like R. Spencer or D. Duke who tapped their networks to get people to show for the rally? Crazy how a self proclaimed nonpartisan thinker can't see that.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Looking from the outside, the polarization of the USA has been ongoing for decades. Not good for a country I can see 2 possible scenarios: 1) start a war to reunite everyone. 2) Civil-War.

Both are not desirable and hope we will see neither.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

bass4funk: "As much as I don't like these thugs..."

As much as you 'don't like these thugs' you make excuses as to why the president doesn't specifically denounce them at a protest they intentionally went to cause violence. Instead, 'as much you don't like these thugs' you protect him, and them, just because you don't like the left AND the right (don't forget, most Conservatives also say Trump should flat out dismiss Bannon and specify the KKK and white supremacists) are saying.

So, just tell us -- should Trump, or should he not, call out the white supremacists specifically and not back track? I bet you can't answer without trying to deflect.

Blacklabel: "Thats what Im hearing in here everyday. Trump and all his supporters are racists."

First, you misspelled "every day". Second, you suffer from 'selective hearing', which isn't hard to believe given you subscribe to alternative facts and make up lies about BLM, among other things. No one said all Trump voters are racists, but many have said racists vote for Trump, and that Trump himself is a big racist. And they have given proof. Huge difference, my friend. But again, not surprising from you.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

Unfortunately, the separation of Americans into different groups, cultural identities, political leanings, right or left etc detracts from the reality that America is comprised of Americans- for the most part united under the American flag. Actually this is the strength that allows America to be the only world superpower in present day existence .

Media attention focuses on differences which make for dramatic news headlines but in fact ,the reality is far different.

Concentrated and almost fanatical attention to problems shows that some media companies are certainly trying to influence people's rational judgment towards negativity and division.....

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@stormcrow

which turned a blind eye to slavery

I really don't think that's fair. They set up the system that enabled it to end, and a brand new country that did in lass than a hundred years. How long were the western European countries around , and involved in the Atlantic slave trade?

And talking about turning a blind eye? The US helps more poor people on this planet with food than any other country. Yet still, many turn a blind eye. Look what's happening in Yemen FGS! The corporate media is turning a blind eye to that.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The real perps are the mayor and governor? So the real perps aren't white supremacists aren't the white supremacists bludgeoning and running over counter-protesters?

...and the ANTIFA and BLM. Yes, they are all responsible, but had the mayor and the governor done their jobs, all this could have been avoided. but the Trump animosity aside for a moment. Otherwise, why even have a police force if they can't keep the order?

Why, because they're Democrats?

Yup.

*Democrats are not left. **They are a centerist neo-liberal party who are marginally "better" than the Republicans.*

Buhahahahahahaha Good one! LOL

Hey, it's ok. You become used to nazism; accept it as a daily part of your life. You become used to the police shooting your people. Of course you're going to be scared of a change.

My people????

As much as you 'don't like these thugs' you make excuses as to why the president doesn't specifically denounce them at a protest they intentionally went to cause violence. Instead, 'as much you don't like these thugs' you protect him, and them, just because you don't like the left AND the right (don't forget, most Conservatives also say Trump should flat out dismiss Bannon and specify the KKK and white supremacists) are saying. 

I don't make any excuses, I just won't lynch someone without any hard evidence and I don't know what's in another persons mind or heart.

So, just tell us -- should Trump, or should he not, call out the white supremacists specifically and not back track? I bet you can't answer without trying to deflect. 

He already did a few times.

First, you misspelled "every day". Second, you suffer from 'selective hearing', which isn't hard to believe given you subscribe to alternative facts and make up lies about BLM, among other things.

Police shootings on cops are up 19% and it's because of the BLM advocating violence and declaring open season on cops, all of a sudden people don't need to respect the police, they can say and do as they please and if the police imposes his authority, it's ok to push back and get in the cops face. This is where we are at.

No one said all Trump voters are racists,

But you guys have always peddled that crap that Trump voters are dumb, low lives, uneducated, ignorant, painting a broad brush against a group of people and if that were said to Blacks or Hispanics, we all know what the outcome would be.

but many have said racists vote for Trump, and that Trump himself is a big racist. And they have given proof. Huge difference, my friend. But again, not surprising from you.

I hear daily the one-sided echo chamber and in all these allegations, I never hear the other side, just one side, so until I hear both sides, I would never label anyone a racist. I'm smarter than that.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

(don't forget, most Conservatives also say Trump should flat out dismiss Bannon and specify the KKK and white supremacists) are saying.

No dismissal of them as "loons", yet.

The KKK and various other nazi scions now feel justified because of Trump's sitting on the fence. And despite his most surreal and desperate press conference yet; he's clever in as far as not wanting to alienate his supremacist voters. But not so clever that this is a watershed in modern America and the repercussions will resonate for a long time to come.

I'm only half serious about sending in peace keepers but it does amuse me to see the reaction from some. The US has long meddled with sovereign nations; Chile is the one that stands out a mile. It has long been the invader/peace keeper; why should it not see itself as in a state of chaos? Need to stand back a little, perhaps?

It's very telling the same crowd seeks to make out that opposing nazis and fascism is a bad thing. And that opponents of said supremacists should be made out to be just as bad, if not worse.

This happens again and again in history. Does no-one really learn?

The brave men and women in the Battle of Cable Street - the battle that brought an end to Mosley's BUF - they were harassed in some quarters. By the police, no less. And yet, 80 years on, they are proudly remembered for doing what was right in Europe's darkest days.

Do what's right, America. For the greater good. For common sense.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

..and the ANTIFA and BLM. Yes, they are all responsible, but

Ridiculous. The blame lays solely with the white supremacists who chose to beat up and run over counter-protesters.

had the mayor and the governor done their jobs, all this could have been avoided.

Orr, had the the rightwing protesters not acted violently, all of this could have been avoided. Let's not forget for one moment the city tried to retract the permit, but the righties sued to be allowed to assemble. Maybe they shouldn't have been beating people up, yeah?

Do me a favor. How many counter-protesters were arrested?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Is it just me or is the media intentionally fanning the flames here.

Yes, they certainly are.

They have been very deceptive. The first article I saw about this incident on JT showed a picture of truly weird looking Nazis, and the story really gave me the impression that it was a Nazi/white supremacist rally and that they violently attacked peaceful counter protesters.

I had to go elsewhere to learn (by watching actual videos) that the violence was largely (if not exclusively) initiated by the counter protesters. And the vast majority of those attending the rally were not Nazis or white supremacists. The counter protesters clearly deserve most of the blame for the violence.

I remain convinced that the Nazi and white supremacist groups are mostly fake, and sent to these events specifically to make the others look bad.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Does no-one really learn?

Yes, of course. I am thinking hard about this today. Never before has any group came out and challenged the KKK/US neo-nazis before. As much as I dislike their attacking free speech, I am also glad that people are attacking their hateful narrow-mindedness. As much as I despise these communist groups tearing down, spitting on and kicking a statue of a confederate soldier and destroying art and history, maybe it's time to put these racist people away forever. Like I said, no group has done this before on a large scale like what happened a few days ago. I do worry, as should every American, about these communist groups. I said last night but it was deleted, that it reminded me of  Fahrenheit 451, the way the crowd was reacting to tearing down a confederate soldier statue. Just be careful what you ask for?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

I do worry, as should every American, about these communist groups

Quakers are communists now?

I think Americans and beyond should probably be more concerned with the resurgence of the KKK and nazis.

Yes, some of the antifa and associated groups would be a little more left than what America is used to these days but there's hardly a Marx/Engels Das Kapital element at play here.

However, a further hardening of both the nazis and the radical radicals could possibly occur somewhere down the line if the divide widens. And how do you make racial purists unite with ordinary black, white, Asian, mixed race citizens? Difficult one, that.

I dunno about Fahrenheit 451. I was more reminded of the sheer joy of Iraqis shoeing the Saddam statues when he was ousted.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I do worry, as should every American, about these communist groups. 

Fizzbit, I wanted to agree with a lot of what you wrote just now, but it all falls apart with the above statement.

The right wing have been brilliant at labeling others.

The left wing, less so, but they are getting better, e.g., "marriage equality" instead of "gay marriage".

The Alt-Left as described is not the opposite of Alt-Right, and the Alt-Left as described are not communists. They are not polar opposites or comparable.

Trump using Alt-Left is a defense of the Alt-Right. The question is whether he is too stupid to know that or is doing it knowingly.

The Alt-Right (the self-proclaimed and sanitized name of neo-nazis and white supremacists) are a domestic terror group plain and simple. They should be hunted down like ISIS and Al Queda. There is no difference in my mind.

No, I worry about giving credence to hate groups, whether they are white or black, and the labeling of broad groups going on to further agendas and alienate groups of society.

I also worry about having a so called leader of the country who is flat out bonkers and has no moral compass or empathy. That press conference will go down in history as the most absurd things said by a president, ever. (well, we may have another 3 1/2 years to top it). It was like a live tweet storm of absurdities.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I see people on here actually calling neo-nazis victims. That's disgusting.

It's like you people don't realize the difference in what these groups are fighting for.

One is fighting for white supremacy, for the 'right' to exterminate or suppress other groups. The other side is fighting against that.

I will, at any time, support anyone who punches a nazi. Incitement isn't protected under the first amendment, and here's something people seem to forget: The right to free speech doesn't mean your speech won't have any consequences.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The right wing have been brilliant at labeling others.

viking68, yes I do call them communists, but as I posted above, what would you call them?.....

Triangle People’s Assembly 

Workers World Party

Industrial Workers of the World

Democratic Socialists of America

anti-fascist movement

I am not going to research these groups as of today, but they do have names reminiscent of communist groups. I admit, it's pure speculation on my part, but these group names were listed in a Reuters article about the Durham Confederate stautue being torn down.

Wait!

It's not speculation anymore. They are communists as I just found this article/video, but you decide for yourself of course

Takiyah Thompson, a member of Workers World Party and student at N.C. Central University

www.heraldsun.com/news/local/counties/durham-county/article167300007.html#storylink=cpy

Quakers are communists now?

As to you Toasted Heretic or Nishikat or whatever you're going to call yourself tomorrow. I have NO idea what you're talking about with Quakers.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

By the way viking68, the reason they are arresting this person is because she was the one who climbed the Confederate statue in Durham and put the rope around the neck. I didn't read this, I just remember a big person in a white shirt on top on the state from the videos I watched last yesterday.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Violence should never be tolerated. There are two obvious things that should be condemned in this incident - firstly the individuals openly carrying Nazi flags - being on the right is a FAR different thing to being a Nazi, and whether you're left or right, we should all be standing together against these sorts or people - and secondly, the use of a car to run over and kill people who have a different political/philosophical view to you. I've seen people on this site jump up and down with outrage over similar attacks in places like France when the culprits were Muslim extremists, but the same people suddenly find other things to talk about when the same thing happens closer to home. It's clear from reading the comments here that a large number of people are entrenched in their views and having dialogue with them is meaningless. Should confederate statues be left in place? That's a valid issue worth discussing, but we should all agree that we don't want violence, domestic terrorism or Nazi ideology. It's clear that the U.S. is currently broken, and what worries me is that, as of now, I can't see a way to heal it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The right wing have been brilliant at labeling others

...and at convincing themselves that the use of a label constitutes a sound argument rather than an ad hominem logical fallacy.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The right to free speech doesn't mean your speech won't have any consequences.

The scary thing is that you are putting words in peoples' mouths, and then saying that they should be punched for those words.

As far as I could tell, those attending the rally were not fighting for the 'right' to exterminate or suppress other groups, they are fighting against that.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

@Jonorth

I will, at any time, support anyone who punches a nazi.

I agree

But I want to ask you, do you know of any instances where a KKK or white supremacist group has gathered and pulled down a statue of Martin Luther King Jr? There isn't one. But my guess is that there will be when these friggen communists are given legitimacy by the MSM, all to create division. So, I guess we can ignore Syria now, now that the NORKS are in the news.

ALL DEEP STATE CRAP!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

I remain convinced that the Nazi and white supremacist groups are mostly fake, and sent to these events specifically to make the others look bad.

Convinced, eh? There must be some very compelling evidence to "convince" you, rather than make you suspect, this is the case.

What is this evidence?

As far as I know, even Trump ( a man who is no stranger to conspiracy theories ), hasn't tried this one yet.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

As far as I could tell, those attending the rally were not fighting for the 'right' to exterminate or suppress other groups, they are fighting against that.

That's what the KKK was doing at the rally? Who knew they were so civic mindes? /sarcasm

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Raw beer: "As far as I could tell, those attending the rally were not fighting for the 'right' to exterminate or suppress other groups..."

whe tour head's in the sand, you see what you want to. They didn't go there to supress or hurt others? How about the murder of a woman, for starters, and the leaded of the same groups calling the man who did it a hero?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

do you know of any instances where a KKK or white supremacist group has gathered and pulled down a statue of Martin Luther King Jr? 

Because symbolically pulling down a statue is way worse than lynching, murder, intimidation and physical violence against real people.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Because symbolically pulling down a statue is way worse than lynching, murder, intimidation and physical violence against real people.

Please try to stay on topic. I know, probably better than you, the history of lynching. If you want to talk about murder, intimidation and physical violence, I recommend you spend a few days in Chicago or Baltimore. Or maybe google "the knockout game" if you can stomach it.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

viking68, yes I do call them communists, but as I posted above, what would you call them?.....

Fizzbit, I didn't see your earlier post. I thought you were speaking about the Virginia counter protesters.

I have no clue who was pulling down the statues. The names you listed sound communist, but I haven't a clue.

The Virginia "counter-protesters" were primarily people who lived there, and apparently there were some radical ANTIFA imports.

People who oppose Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are not commies. I am from a state with the confederate flag in it. I find that appalling (but I don't lose any sleep over it), but I am damn sure no communist.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Because symbolically pulling down a statue is way worse than lynching, murder, intimidation and physical violence against real people.

cleo - this is 2017. not 1957. The KKK is a pathetic little group that rarely does more than pass out leaflets in stripmalls. The ADL published a report in 2016 that concluded: "Despite a persistent ability to attract media attention, organized Ku Klux Klan groups are actually continuing a long-term trend of decline. They remain a collection of mostly small, disjointed groups that continually change in name and leadership."[206]

Don't believe the left's trash narrative about Charlottesville.

Antifa and BLM initiated violence like the thugs they are. As I said before, if they had protested with smarts, the whole sorry mess could have been avoided. Instead the inevitable mindless violence ensued.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

bass4funkToday  02:50 pm JST

But you guys have always peddled that crap that Trump voters are dumb, low lives, uneducated, ignorant...

How on earth could anyone have got that idea about Trump voters. Something they read, maybe?

painting a broad brush against a group of people...

What, like you do all the time? Except I'm not sure how to paint a brush.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

but I am damn sure no communist.

Sorry if you thought I was talking about you. I wasn't.

The Virginia "counter-protesters" were primarily people who lived there

I think most of these groups are from university campuses, especially the University of Virginia, which is located in Charlottesville. The video I posted, the lady in the white shirt, was from a North Carolina university.

People who oppose Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are not commies.

Not all. I oppose them. But the violent groups fighting them seem to be these communist groups, IMO. Not all of course, but i did read (not verified) that many were bused in.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Antifa and BLM initiated violence like the thugs they are

How many were arrested?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

How many were arrested?

None unfortunately. Like Berkeley and other violent incidents, the police stood by and allowed the nonsense to fester.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

the police stood by and allowed the nonsense to fester.

Orr, They didnt so anything

Ridiculous to compare a group of thugs, people who beat and ran over counter-protesters, of which none were arrested or murdered anyone.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Well yeah none of them would get arrested, as the police were ordered to stand down. Antifa in the inauguration riots, the Berkeley riots and even the pulling down of the statue in Durham HAVE been arrested and some already jailed. The DOJ is working on getting the information about more of them who committed crimes on Inauguration Day from that website they used to plan it all, so more to come.

Im sure a car running into a bunch of people was exempt from that stand down order, or the driver wouldnt have been arrested either.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Yup great reasoning takeda.shingen - if no one is arrested it means no crimes were committed.

I guess all those physical assaults I saw on tv are legal in the state of Virginia

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

No dismissal of them as "loons", yet.

The KKK and various other nazi scions now feel justified because of Trump's sitting on the fence.

The BLM felt the same in the previous administration. What's your point? All these groups have their agendas and they're all idiots.

And despite his most surreal and desperate press conference yet; he's clever in as far as not wanting to alienate his supremacist voters. But not so clever that this is a watershed in modern America and the repercussions will resonate for a long time to come.

I think the people that should get the medal for being the most scandalous should go to the media and the mayor and governor without a doubt.

*It's very telling the same crowd seeks to make out that opposing nazis and fascism is a bad thing. And that opponents of said supremacists should be made out to be just as bad, if not worse.*

Because they are. If an ANTIFA would have been responsible for the girls death instead of the Neo Nazi, the media still wouldn't give it the coverage they give the Neo Nazis you know that, don't kid yourself.

This happens again and again in history. Does no-one really learn?

I ask myself that same question very often.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

ladies and gentlemen , here is the left in 2017. A professor at John Hoskins has actually called for the stoning of those he disagrees with

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/15/charlottesville-showed-that-liberalism-cant-defeat-white-supremacy-only-direct-action-can/

Absolute savegry.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

bass4funk: "I don't make any excuses, I just won't lynch someone without any hard evidence and I don't know what's in another persons mind or heart."

Wow... I guess running down a bunch of people isn't hard evidence enough for you, nor are the heads of the groups that organised the protests saying, "We are proud of him killing that girl. We're happy" enough for you to know what's in their minds and hearts. Just... wow. You've gone above and beyond in defending these people this time, bass.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I've seen people on this site jump up and down with outrage over similar attacks in places like France when the culprits were Muslim extremists, but the same people suddenly find other things to talk about when the same thing happens closer to home.

I can't believe you would compare these attacks. Despite some calling the Virginia car death premeditated, one can see videos of the guy driving slowly and only accelerating AFTER the "peaceful" protesters started pelting his car. And some witnesses claim they were also shouting "Nazi!". I suspect he just got scared and tried to escape.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

FizzBit: "But the violent groups fighting them seem to be these communist groups,"

Define "communist" for us, please. Because the people you quote in saying the word have no clue what a communist is, and may as well be calling them, and I believe they did, "commies" and other such American head-in-sand nonsense names when they have no idea what they are saying. It's like FAUX News, Trump, and even Bass4funk; everyone black or Muslim who does something like what these white supremacists does is a "terrorist", but suddenly it's a white man and the word "terrorism" suddenly means something else, and it's a "lone incident", or how Americans have no idea what "freedom" means, to the point where they defend giving up all their freedom and liberties to "keep it".

So, tell us... what is a communist and what makes the people you claim are communists communist. Don't take long to look it up!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Odd how the left can forgive Robert Byrd but not General Lee, who was actually Lincoln's first choice to lead the Union forces and after the war was contrite and worked to unite America.

Lee should have added an upper case D after his name.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Trump apologists only need to be reminded of one thing, ad nauseum: he gave moral equivalency today to a failed mindset that was soundly defeated in Berlin in 1945. Anything otherwise is intellectual gobbledy-gook.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Trump apologists only need to be reminded of one thing

Great. So the MSM puts a picture of Trump in there and your knee jerk reaction follows. What's your "moral equivalency" to the wonderful life you enjoy with gas, oil, water, air conditioning, etc to the third worlds that suffer under our governments through war and ambivalence. Hey! How's Yemen doing? Don't know? Yeah, because the corporate MSM has decided not to tell you about it or honestly, don't give a crap because it doesn't support their deep state cause.

@fabiuslips...time to wise up!

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Trump apologists only need to be reminded of one thing, ad nauseum: he gave moral equivalency today to a failed mindset that was soundly defeated in Berlin in 1945. Anything otherwise is intellectual gobbledy-gook.

This is not moral equivalence. The bottom line here is that, according to the President, one group sought the proper permit to protest (however abhorrent their politics are), and another equally abhorrent group showed up unsanctioned by local authorities to counter-protest, and the police appear to have failed to defuse the conflict, and tragedy ensued. This is the crux of the whole thing to me, regardless of politics. Therefore, I agree with the President that extremists on both sides are to blame.

Extremism of any sort is detestable.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Wow... I guess running down a bunch of people isn't hard evidence enough for you, nor are the heads of the groups that organised the protests saying,

Kessler was given a permit and you know who helped him to obtain and secure that permit? The most liberalist of all law firms in the US represented him, the ACLU! Because even hate speech is protected, he had a lawful permit and the fascist left don't have the right to upstage this man and force him out. He had to flee for his life. The left call themselves tolerant, but they are anything but that. We don't care if you have a legal permit, leave or we will mess you up, that's the position of the left.

"We are proud of him killing that girl. We're happy" enough for you to know what's in their minds and hearts. Just... wow. You've gone above and beyond in defending these people this time, bass.

What on Earth are you talking about now?

Anyway, so what are your thoughts on Signer and McAuliffe? They should be kicked out of office for allowing this mess to happen. But if you think this was all done accidentally, you are not dealing with a full deck.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Yup great reasoning takeda.shingen - if no one is arrested it means no crimes were committed.I guess all those physical assaults I saw on tv are legal in the state of Virginia

Is claiming to have seen all kinds of assualts on TV any better? If these assaults really happened, I am sure the police would have taken action. But no, they're thugs cuz Clamenza doesn't like them. They're the problem, cuz Clamenza doesn't like them. Nevermind the fact they didn't kill anyone or attack anyone, they're thugs.

hate speech is protected, he had a lawful permit and the fascist left don't have the right to upstage this man and force him out.

A bit more than hate speech now. Try terrorism. Is that predicted by the first amendment?

They should be kicked out of office for allowing this mess to happen

Not gonna happen. Not their fault the alt-right are terrorists. How much you wanna bet they'll never be permitted to protest in Charlottesville again?

, and another equally abhorrent group

Not equally abhorrent. Equating the two is sick.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Is claiming to have seen all kinds of assualts on TV any better? If these assaults really happened, I am sure the police would have taken action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWLjiA-_l4g&t=539s

You're welcome.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

You're welcome

Then why weren't they arrested?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So the MSM puts a picture of Trump in there and your knee jerk reaction follows.

Does the MSM write his trash tweets?

Does the MSM stand up and spout incoherent gibberish in front of an audience of whooping imbeciles?

Does the MSM take on board trash conspiracy theories and put them in Trump's already trash-filled head?

Does the MSM take days to denounce neo-Nazis and the KKK?

You don't need the shrill talking heads having a go at him on the likes of CNN .

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If it was a white supremacist who was killed, would he still blame both sides, one wonders

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Does the MSM write his trash tweets?

HA!

One question Jimizo.....Does the MSM report about the atrocities in Yemen? You know the answer, and that is a big fat NO! Trumps tweets is hardly comparable to starving and dying children. But your "free press/unbiased" MSM won't raise the issue. And I hope you know why. But please don't come on here and try to defend the MSM as if they are some kind of free press. They are just a corporate tool used by corporations, to distract the people from their corporate crimes.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@Fizzbit

Does calling the likes of CNN 'shrill talking heads' sound like I'm defending the MSM to you? I think 'shrill' is a negative term. I also think 'taking heads' isn't a term of flattery.

Please post your as yet unnamed better sources for us to get enlightened. Until then, we can assume it's crackpot nonsense.

I'll ask again. Does the MSM write Trump's idiotic, gutter-level, trash tweets?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Bass4funk: "What on Earth are you talking about now?"

sorry finmy paraphrasing was too tough for you. How about you give us the exact quotation? It was what Justin Moore said about him being glad Heather was murdered. I bet you won't even look it up, let alone quote it. This is a man Trump, and you, refuse to call out.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

A bit more than hate speech now. Try terrorism. Is that predicted by the first amendment?

So a few months ago when the ANTIFA were at Berkely smashing windows and terrorizing other students and destroying property that was what, an act of love?

Not gonna happen. Not their fault the alt-right are terrorists. How much you wanna bet they'll never be permitted to protest in Charlottesville again?

Uh-huh...they could sue the State and guess who would represent them, yup, the ACLU.

sorry finmy paraphrasing was too tough for you. How about you give us the exact quotation? It was what Justin Moore said about him being glad Heather was murdered. I bet you won't even look it up, let alone quote it. This is a man Trump, and you, refuse to call out.

What's your point? When that terrorist Sanders Supporter tried to kill Scalise and other Republicans and called for the death of all Republicans, not a word from the left. Now why the double standard all of a sudden? You guys give hypocrisy a totally new meaning.

I'll ask again. Does the MSM write Trump's idiotic, gutter-level, trash tweets?

Worse, they write their own trash, but no one really pays attention

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Uh-huh...they could sue the State and guess who would represent them, yup, the ACLU.

Could sue for what? Lol not being allowed to protest? They were allowed to protest.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Violence should be condemned no matter which side is being violent. The biggest problem with the violence is that the other side can use your violence as an argument against your message.

But let's not try to pretend the two groups are equivalent.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Worse, they write their own trash, but no one really pays attention

Why would trash coming from the likes of CNN and Fox be worse than trash coming from the president? Shouldn't the president be held to higher standards?

2 ( +5 / -3 )

bass4funk: As much as I don't like these thugs, the ANTIFA and BLM scare me more and the reason for that is, these people would beat the crap out of me in an instant if I did'n't believe as they do, because fascists don't care about other peoples civil liberties

Imagine how minorities feel about seeing the KKK. But hey, let's get some tissues for bass and his fear of roving liberals walking the streets and attacking him.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Jimizo: "Shouldn't the president be held to higher standards?"

perhaps his standards look pretty high given his fan base is the absolute rock bottom of societ, and the dregs of humanity.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

let's get some tissues for bass and his fear of roving liberals walking the streets and attacking him.

Yep, while your at it, get some bandages for the innocent people who are victims of the "knockout game". You know right? Where black thugs choose an innocent person walking down the street and try to give them a KNOCKOUT punch? Don't matter if they are a teacher, a mother, a homeless person. Splain that!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Could sue for what? Lol not being allowed to protest? They were allowed to protest.

And they can do it again, if they want and qualify for it.

But let's not try to pretend the two groups are equivalent.

Ok, we just have a difference of opinion. I personally think there is no difference between the Neo Nazi douchebags and the fascists ANTIFA loons, both want to force their political opinions down your throat, both are violent and both need to beat the crap at each other and leave the rest of us alone.

Imagine how minorities feel about seeing the KKK.

And how about people seeing groups of fascists along with the KKK that makes people feel a lot worse.

But hey, let's get some tissues for bass and his fear of roving liberals walking the streets and attacking him.

I don't need a tissue, I believe in protecting the environment and I would never lower myself to get caught up in the frey, I have more important things to do with my time, like making money, let these idiots fight it out, I just want normal people to have a decent dialogue about race without the left shouting and screaming if you have any objections to how they see and feel about race, you are a racist. Who wants to have ANY dialogue with ignorant people that won't even listen or just listen to one side of the issue and dismissing the other instigators involved and still NO ONE here can tell me what the should happen to the idiot mayor and cowardly governor.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Having a conversation about race isn't racist. Denying housing to black people because they are black, now that's racist.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

And they can do it again, if they want and qualify for it.

That doesn't answer my question. What could they possibly sue for? They were allowed to rally.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Having a conversation about race isn't racist. Denying housing to black people because they are black, now that's racist.

Calling White people racist for voting for Trump is also racist

That doesn't answer my question. What could they possibly sue for? They were allowed to rally.

In the event either group would want to protest in Charlottesville again.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Bass4funk - What is your goal here?

It is obvious that this rally was more than just neo-nazis/white supremacists wanting to give a speech. They also wanted to fight, now the Antifa and other neo-liberal groups took the bait and also went to that neo-nazi/white supremacists rally for the purpose of getting into a fight with them. But who started this on purpose? It was the neo-nazis/white supremacists.

Trumps inability to just outright condemn the neo-nazis/white supremacists and then try to claim that the responsibility for the violence is just as equally on the Antifa at this event is just a retarded sense of denial by him.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

A shameless lie and hypocritical of someone who wished death upon a number of posters in the same breath.

Have you no shame??

You made homophobic comments against me and against Jimizo last nite. Odd that you don't remember today.

Sadlly; they've since been deleted - which is a shame because you can then shriek and claim it's a lie.

You have also threatened posters with the authorities here, on numerous occasions and you said that I and my friends would be stabbed to death. All posted late at nite.

You have repeatedly denied comments you've made here in the past. When your comments were unearthed you suggested that I was having an emotional breakdown. And that you never made those comments.

Are you a bargain bin Donald Trump? Can you not keep track of your disasterous trail of contradictions, falsehoods and ad hominems?

EVERYONES a white supremacist nazi fascist!

You're the only one here saying that.

I just noticed you called 50 MILLION AMERICANS THE DREGS OF SOCIETY.

Take a look back over the many, many posts on what you call Muslims.

Not every SuperLib is a communist nutjob who ignores the 100 million communist victims of the 20th century. But if you are, Hillary Clinton, Andrea Merkel, Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders are the people for you!

None of which are communist, or anything remotely near.

Apologies to the Mod and fellow contributors for being off topic.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

ladies and gentlemen , here is the left in 2017. A professor at John Hoskins has actually called for the stoning of those he disagrees with

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/15/charlottesville-showed-that-liberalism-cant-defeat-white-supremacy-only-direct-action-can/

Absolute savegry.

Did you actually read the article?

He's doing no such thing. He's using metaphors.

Your attempts to do down those who stand up to white supremacist, racist, anti-semitic, nazis is laughable.

Absolute comedy gold.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I don't need to. You just accepted it:

No, I never thought the man is a racist, quite the opposite.

Who did the latter?

I don't know, I wasn't there, there are always two sides to an argument especially when it involves a lawsuit.

It is obvious that this rally was more than just neo-nazis/white supremacists wanting to give a speech. They also wanted to fight, now the Antifa and other neo-liberal groups took the bait and also went to that neo-nazi/white supremacists rally for the purpose of getting into a fight with them. But who started this on purpose? It was the neo-nazis/white supremacists.

Actually, no. The Antifa loons were blocking the way so that the Neo Nazis couldn't get to the statue, now in all honesty, why on Earth would they do that, you know what's going to happen next. Either way, both sides can't stand each other and before that poor woman was tragically murdered, I have to say, I was kinda enjoying them go at it because I hate the Nazi scum with a passion and I equally hate the obnoxious fascists communist moonbats.

They deserve each other.

Trumps inability to just outright condemn the neo-nazis/white supremacists and then try to claim that the responsibility for the violence is just as equally on the Antifa at this event is just a retarded sense of denial by him.

Not so sure about that.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Antifa and BLM initiated violence like the thugs they are.

Translation: nazis should be allowed to advance their agenda and brave people who stand up against them should just accept the rise of fascism. Whether you're black, white, Quaker, Jew, Muslim. If you don't allow the nazis to take root and strangle America; you're a thug.

Vile.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I hate the Nazi scum with a passion and I equally hate the obnoxious fascists communist moonbats.

Sigh. The real moonbats are the nazis and those who equate them with brave men and women who are standing up to the filth.

Would you side with the nazis, if push came to shove? Appease, capitulate and ultimately collaborate?

Or would you do the right thing and open your eyes?

This is not about being a Trump supporter anymore. The nazis have been allowed to float to the top. To go mainstream. Are you that complacent that you'll let it happen?

I hope not. I really hope not.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Calling White people racist for voting for Trump is also racist

Well it's a good thing I've never said that. Did you ever say you wouldn't rent to a black person because as a race they are just too dangerous?

Yep.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That's MSM bullcrap. You have zero understanding of what went down.

No it is not, Antifa is group that takes Right wing bait and purposely gets into fights. This rally was not the first time this has happened. Antift is known for their street violence in the USA.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Translation: nazis should be allowed to advance their agenda

You didn't pay attention to anything I said, I am not at all surprised. I didn't say that and you know it. Focus!

and brave people who stand up against them should just accept the rise of fascism. 

I never said that either, put the emotion aside, please.....

Whether you're black, white, Quaker, Jew, Muslim. If you don't allow the nazis to take root and strangle America; you're a thug.

Vile.

No, I just said, they are the same, one hates people because of their race, religion and color and the other wants to forces you into emotional servitude and forces you to adopt their political beliefs or else.

Now that's vile!

Sigh. The real moonbats are the nazis and those who equate them with brave men and women who are standing up to the filth.

I get it, but for me, they are all the same bowl of vile filth.

Would you side with the nazis, if push came to shove? Appease, capitulate and ultimately collaborate?

No, I would give each some weapons, buy some popcorn, ease the seat back on my armchair and watch them go at it, may the best loser lose.

This is not about being a Trump supporter anymore. The nazis have been allowed to float to the top. To go mainstream. Are you that complacent that you'll let it happen?

I hope not. I really hope not.

I hate to break it to you, but Virginia is, get this: a former Slave State. They have had racial problems and slave uprisings and Klan rallies and the history of deep rooted racism going back to the early 1800's, they have always been there, racism just didn't come to the surface, it never left! But since the MSM couldn't get Trump on anything else, the Russian collusion lies, dropped like a hot potato, Scaramucci, nothing, North Korea, that's dead as well, so what else can we get this guy on and it looks like the left were able to score a hit and thanks to Signer and McAuliffe, they got their wish.

The MSM and the Washington elite.....ahhhhh...gotta love 'em!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Did you ever say you wouldn't rent to a black person because as a race they are just too dangerous?

No, I did not.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Aug. 16, 2017 9:43 a.m. ET

> BALTIMORE—The city of Baltimore removed several Confederate monuments overnight in a move that city officials didn’t announce ahead of time to avoid demonstrations.

> By dawn, crews had removed three Confederate monuments from their pedestals. They also took down a statue of Roger B. Taney, a Supreme Court chief justice who, while not a Confederate himself, wrote the proslavery Dred Scott decision in 1857.

It seems that even Supreme Court Justices who wrote unpopular decisions are not safe from this compounding tyranny.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The Bill of Rights applies to all Americans. Trump just reiterated it at the worst time.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I agreed sometime media have put their words into someone else mouth, but you have to be used when you're dealing Journalists these days.

Anyone who has used violence is guilty regardless of which side they were.

However, the KKK and White Supremacy are extremely racist organizations and they are criminals.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What I see, is the bully being fought back against. With the BLM movement, they have said enough's enough. Throughout history, the KKK, Neo-Nazis, and other white supremacist groups have used violence and intimidation to espouse their message of hate. Peaceful protest by blacks have done nothing to get rid of this hate. All it has done is gotten prominent black leaders assassinated and people killed. Now, with a president who is more than willing to further push this message of hate, the white supremacists feel more emboldened. Thus, violence has been met with violence. The bully is being fought with fists. And the president has the gall to say, "No, you can't do that. Don't fight violence with violence." Sounds hypocritical to me.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

In other news, corporate members are fleeing Trump's council since he's so toxic.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/16/investing/ceos-trump-manufacturing-council/index.html

And Campbell Soup (CPB) CEO Denise Morrison said she had no choice but to quit the manufacturing council after Tuesday, when Trump clung to his point of view in an off-the-cuff press conference. "Racism and murder are unequivocally reprehensible and are not morally equivalent to anything else that happened in Charlottesville," the CEO said.

Well said.

bass: No, I did not.

Are you sure? I thought you said things about crime in New York in the 80s and how it wouldn't make sense to rent to black people because it's too dangerous. That wasn't you?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Get rid of Trump before he destroys this country. No joke. The Republicans need to understand that they are trading away the next several decades by continuing to support this man.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

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