The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.
© (c) Copyright Thomson Reuters 2019.UK faces food, fuel and drug shortages if it leaves EU, says contested leaked document
By Kate Holton and William James LONDON©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
83 Comments
Login to comment
BertieWooster
We cut ties with former British colonies in order to join the EU and now we're going to cut ties with the EU in order to be independent?
What is this, a deathwish?
BertieWooster
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/18/752173091/leaked-brexit-document-depicts-government-fears-of-gridlock-food-shortages-unres
CrazyJoe
It is of little comfort that the population of Great Britain is showing the same levels of stupidity that is gripping our own country. They can see from our own experiences with Trump how badly the results have been. You would think that with the amount of railing they have done about our level of stupidity that they would think twice before emulating those mistakes.
I hope that the English will come to their senses and back away from the precipice before their leaders take them over edge. It is a long way to the bottom and the landing will be very painful, and in the end, they will be much worse off then they are now.
Toasted Heretic
The English or the British?
u_s__reamer
The English ( especially the arrogant, public-schooled right-wing, self-entitled elite) must bear the greatest responsibility for the Brexit debacle. That being said, Brexit is THEIR unicorn-fuelled fantasy of "taking back control" (for themselves only), a mission impossible that can never become a reality if Parliament and the EU have any say. Boris will soon choke on his full-English Brexit and be ignominiously carried out from No 10 to the oblivion he fully deserves.
Scrote
The worst case scenario may be unlikely, but it is possible. Gove and Lying Johnson should admit that shortages of food, fuel and medicine are definitely possible if their no-deal approach is followed.
sf2k
It just means that all the dependencies will have to be met locally without the usual suspects benefiting.
towingtheline
More childish scaremongering. Don't be fooled by the poor losers who can't accept the reality that they lost. The UK will be fine just as it was before it joined the EU :)
Tangerine2000
There will be a few bumps in the road, but like the Millennium Bug, this is all pie in the sky stuff.
Things will get sorted within a couple of months, if not weeks.
Jimizo
There is no way you can know this.
Tangerine2000
True, but inductive reasoning is a useful way of estimating things.
There is no way that anyone can say it will be dreadful. So, how about somewhere in the middle?
Tangerine2000
That is an interesting take. What about the millions of Welsh, Scottish and Irish people who voted to leave?
Tangerine2000
What about the millions of Welsh, Irish and Scottish people that voted leave, though? I don't recall any country voting 100% remain.
Tangerine2000
I did a little number crunching. Here's how many people in Wales, Scotland and N.I. voted leave:
Wales: 854,572
Scotland: 1,018,322
Northern Ireland: 349,442
Interesting fact: If these people hadn't voted leave, then remain would have won.
Strangerland
What exactly makes that fact interesting?
Tangerine2000
That people say that Brexit is purely and English thing, despite Wales also having a majority for leave.
Without the votes of Scottsh and Irish and Welsh leave voters, England by itself couldn't have won the referendum. People seem to forget that the result was based on the total number of votes of the entire population of the UK, not just England.
Strangerland
I don't think the people have been saying that. I think that's what you think the people have been saying.
Are you sure? I don't think your math works correctly there.
theeastisred
Who needs food, drugs, fuel etc when you have Brexit?
Jimizo
Just as worrying is people don’t any need policies from a party when voting for Farage’s fart-lighting act.
Tangerine2000
Just a few comments from this thread alone:
Regarding the maths:
Can you tell me how you calculate the numbers? Here's mine:
Total remain votes: 16,141,241
Leave votes (England only) : 15,188,406
Without the leave votes from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, England's leave vote alone wouldn't have won the referendum.
Is that incorrect?
Tangerine2000
@zichi
I have to point out that England was not 40.74% remain as you stated in your post. It was 46.62%.
Strangerland
It is. You even said it yourself:
itsonlyrocknroll
The most challenging struggle for the UK political establishment has been accepting the 2016 referendum result.
Understanding that the Maastricht Treaty spelled out a Federal Agenda without any mandate or the will from the then, peoples of twelve member states. This set in motion a political and economic Union without recourse to any true realisation of democratic accountability.
Read it !!!!! …......5. It was a giant leap forward for European integration........It does not take some right wing knuckle dragger to understand the implications to hold our political leadership to account !!! True socialists Tony Benn, Peter Shore, Barbara Castle understood this clearly
Five things you need to know about the Maastricht Treaty........
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/explainers/tell-me-more/html/25_years_maastricht.en.html
Is this retched propaganda about the UK faces food, fuel and drug shortages if it leaves EU, seriously valid?
When 550 countries outside of the European Union have little issue with food, fuel and drug shortages. The principal of PPP, perfect preparation and prevention, a clean break from every aspect of EU regulatory and the Common Agricultural Policy. Except change and move on.
Do you serious believe the people of US and Japan would politicly join such a Union ?!!!
Not on your the hair of your chinny chin chin.
Tangerine2000
@strangerland
I am pointing out what zichi said was not correct.
I used the correct figures (England 46.62% remain 53.38% leave = 15,188,406 votes for leave)
Can you please tell me how you think it's incorrect?
Strangerland
Because the numbers show that England alone voted to leave, without those other nations, contrary to your claim.
Andrew Crisp
Project Fear at it again, there my be chaos in the short term in the long term Britain will be ok, the EU is only a major benefit of Germany and a lesser extent France the other Countries would be better off on their own.
Tangerine2000
My claim: England's leave vote was not enough by itself to win the referendum. The leave vote from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland was needed for leave to win.
Total remain votes (UK): 16,141,241
Leave votes (England only) : 15,188,406
How is that incorrect?
Strangerland
Yes it was. England voted less than 50% to remain.
You aren't trying to say we should only count the leave votes, and ignore the remain are you? That would be like saying 'The leaves would not have won if other countries were also allowed to vote'. Sure, probably true, but a pretty irrelevant and useless piece of information.
You can either count both remain and leave votes, or ignore both of them, but you can't cherry pick. At least not if you want to be thought of as someone who can form a logical argument.
Jimizo
There is no way you can know this.
What does ‘ok’ mean? Better than before? Worse than before? About the same?
Tangerine2000
@jimizo
When someone says they don't think it'll be armageddon, you keep saying "There is no way you can know this".
My questions to you is, how do you know it won't be? What do you think it will be like? And, how do you know?
Tangerine2000
My advice, stop digging.
When did I ignore the remain votes? I posted the total of remain votes for the entire UK.
I think you've realised you got the wrong end of the stick trying to argue something that I didn't say.
itsonlyrocknroll
England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar are not member states of the European Union. The United Kingdom has Treaty membership, hence the 2016 referendum covered a single voting area resulting in 17,410,742 votes to leave and 16,141,241 to remain.
If UK fails to leave on the 31st October, by hook or crook, well let not go there.
Strangerland
Digging for what? I simply pointed out how your assertion is incorrect.
Yes, and then you tried to somehow count England's leave votes plus the leave votes of the other nations, while ignoring the remain votes of the other nations.
No, you've made a logical error, and are having troubles seeing the logic of that.
Tangerine2000
Strangerland, the figure I used for the REMAIN vote was 16,141,241. That is England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The figure I used for LEAVE votes (England only) was 15,188,406. This figure does not include Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland leave votes.
Do you disagree that 15,188,406 is a smaller number than 16,141,241?
You have somehow reversed these numbers in your brain. I meant stop digging because the hole you have dug yourself into is now quite deep.
Strangerland
You keep saying England needed the votes of the other countries to leave, yet by your own admission, the vote in England was to leave. So no, it didn't need those votes. If England were voting by itself, it still would have been leave.
goldorak
Not quite. https://euobserver.com/economic/125125
Tangerine2000
The referendum was UK vote. England could not vote by itself. The other nations could have theoretically kept England in the EU.
The majority of England voted leave, but that number alone was not enough to beat the total number of remain votes of the UK as a whole. If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland voters hadn't voted leave, then remain would have won.
Jimizo
I’m not the one making the claim. You or I don’t know bad it will be in the short or long term. It’s a shot in the dark. Boris Johnson is our PM - a clown notorious for his poor organizational skills and dishonesty. There are jobs and potentially lives at stake here.
I tend to get suspicious when pro-Brexit supporters compare this to the millennium bug and tell us not to worry. My dad told me to never ask a barber if you need a haircut. It’s sound advice.
Strangerland
Um, that's equivalent to saying "if they didn't vote the way they did, the vote would have been different".
Um, yeah.
Tangerine2000
Precisely. So, how can you be so confident it won't be okay? That's what I would like to know.
Tangerine2000
That would be true for anything.
I am saying that leave has happened because of England leave voters plus leave voters from Wales, Scotland and N.I. You were adamant that was not the case.
Luddite
The Government and the Brexiteers are still telling us that everything will be alright in the face of evidence to the contrary. What with the idiot Priti Patel now saying freedom of movement for EU citizens will cease on the 1st of November just shows how interminally thick and heartless are those in charge.
Strangerland
Exactly, which is why it's baffling that you even made the claim.
I mean, I could equally claim "if England hadn't have voted to leave, then they would be staying", and such a comment would be equally relevant to this thread as yours was.
Tangerine2000
I think Jimizo has his own voice, strangerland.
I have gathered his opinion from what he has said:
It's clear he doesn't think it will be good or even just okay:
We have also spoken about this issue before.
Thunderbird2
Well, the ones that voted for Brexit anyway - similar to Trump supporters... or toffs. It was a triumph for little Englanders, xenophobes, those against immigration and those who identified as root vegetables. Those of us who voted remain had more common sense ;)
WilliB
"Contested" is the keyword here. Anyone who does not recognize this article and the mentioned "document" as more globalist propaganda is seriously gullible.
Thunderbird2
The document DOES exist - it was put together by a Government department as a worst case scenario. It is not Project Fear, it is not fake news, it exists.
englisc aspyrgend
Project Fear at work again!
This really is a load of biased, inaccurate claptrap, just what you would expect from the mandarins of the Civil Service.
smithinjapan
GB was ridiculous with this -- asking for a divorce while still keeping everything and giving nothing. They are screwed. England is going to drop to it's least important place in history since before it was a nation. Once they're out, they'll be begging to get back in. morons.
Tangerine2000
@smithinjapan
Before the referendum in 2016, many posters on this site were adamant that remain was going to win. Some said the leavers were going to have egg on their face on June 24th. It didn't happen.
I understand that you are against Brexit and that you honestly believe it will be a disaster. But what if it isn't? What if it really isn't as half as bad as some say it will be? Many people were wrong about Brexit, and many of those same people were wrong about Trump becoming President. I genuinely believe this is going to be another one.
Thunderbird2
Two things my fellow TARDIS traveller - we didn't all vote for Brexit, so I object to being called a moron, and please stop using England when you mean either the UK or Britain... those of us in Scotland really don't like that.
mmwkdw
Apparently the shortages were for French Champagne, and Truffles... which only the most Wealthy would find as being a disaster to their Life style.
News Stories have a tendency to over sensationalize the real news item... which is understandable, News Sources wish to attract Readers....
Smart people... will read between the lines, and seeks multiple sources before making an opinion.
smithinjapan
tangirne2000: "I understand that you are against Brexit and that you honestly believe it will be a disaster. But what if it isn't?"
hahah. Have fun, bud. Oh, and when the deal is done, I have not one, not two, but 10,000 unicorns to sell you, dirt cheap. I'll even let you trade them for food stamps after your nation is done.
smithinjapan
tangerine2000: "I genuinely believe this is going to be another one."
I missed that last part. So, you genuinely believe Trump was the right choice? and that's your defence of the potential fallout of Brexit?
Tangerine2000
@smithinjapan
Not saying Trump was the right choice. I am saying (this is really getting tiring now, so many people just can't read carefully) that the people who said "there is no way Donald Trump will become the President" were wrong. Very wrong.
Just because lots of people say X is going to happen/not happen, doesn't mean it will/won't.
But I have seen a pattern, some people are absolutely convinced that they are right and when it doesn't come to pass, instead of evaluating why they were so wrong, they simply blame others and refuse to learn why they had made an incorrect prediction.
kurisupisu
Brexit will be the chance for renegotiation.
Why would the British stop wanting to import German cars or Irish butter and why would the British stop wanting to go to Spain in the winter?
Well, the answer is that none of this will change.
What will change is the ease or not of doing the above which is based on rules and regulations that ‘people’ make.
Brexit failure is based on the premise that somehow there is a lack of ability to negotiate.
Clearly, that is not the case...
2020hindsights
Tangerine2000
I can't remember many polls predicting this. Most polls were around 25% for a Trump win, which is equivalent to tossing two coins and getting two heads. We got two heads.
And as many people predicted, Trump as president is a disaster and so will Brexit be.
Tangerine2000
@2020hindsights
So, if Brexit doesn't turn out to be a disaster and if Trump gets re-elected in 2020, would you start to consider there is a reason why you were wrong?
Tangerine2000
@wipeout
You started out well
However, you then followed it up with:
Sound like your saying "I wasn't wrong because all of these unexpected things happened"
Well, there's no way he'll get re-elected next year, is there?
theeastisred
The only honest response from a Brexiter to this report is that food, drugs, fuel, jobs, the economy, Irish peace, the situation of EU nationals living in the UK and vice versa, etc etc, do not matter. The only thing that matters is the holy grail of Brexit, right? Regardless of consequences.
Tangerine2000
I think that's what you think Brexiteers believe.
Leaving the EU is about regaining sovereignty and exiting an undemocratic federalist superstate. It is about ending vast annual payments to the EU. It is about having the laws which govern the lives of British people being decided by the British Parliament. It is about deciding who can enter the country instead of having a door wide open policy with limitless numbers.
But I am sure you'll look at this and in your eyes, you'll just see what you said above.
theeastisred
Not at all. Your view is that what you call sovereignty etc is more important than the things I mentioned, i.e. jobs and the economy among others. My view is the opposite.
Tangerine2000
To me sovereignty is more important than the economy or jobs, which incidentally were supposed to have disappeared after a vote to leave, nevermind actually leaving.
theeastisred
That's exactly what I was getting at. Will never agree though!
rcch
it,s even more tragic if we think that the (old) (racist) (ignorant) people that made "leave" win are already dead, or almost there. we all know that if there was a new referendum, the remain would win easily. messing with younger people,s lives over lies is a very ugly thing.
Tangerine2000
Really? I mean, really!?
How about (more experienced) (wiser) (indepentently minded)?
Toasted Heretic
If Johnson and his government had the slightest confidence in "alternative arrangements" then there would not be any concern about the backstop.
Said backstop is only insurance for such arrangements not happening.
2020hindsights
Tangerine2000
I haven't said anything about Trump getting re-elected in 2020, so I can't see how I can be wrong about it.
But, if Brexit doesn't turn out to be a disaster, sure, I'll eat humble pie. Will you do the same if it does turn out to be a disaster???
mrbaberunee
I see a revolution coming, just need a few yellow vests to get it started
Jonathan Prin
Heavy changes bring always difficulty in the short term but reward in the longer term. That is what experience tells you.
I am half French half English in fact but don't see British as people who cannot adapt.
PM BJ may take advantage of the situation for his personal interest but so many more British will correct the target cleverly.
The first rule I follow is democracy by vote.
Objectibely, Denmark as done much better economically not taking the Euro.
UK will do the same somehow without being a strict member of EU club, which does not mean it will not keep most current rules.
There is no black or white situation.
Some wise opinion : invest in UK while most see chaos happening.
kurisupisu
Brexit is around two months away.
On a personal note, I’m seeing huge growth in my export business into the UK.
I deal with high end products and demand is massive.
This month’s figures were astonishing.
Maybe I am lucky but noting the high employment in the UK, I don’t think so.
2020hindsights
Jonathan Prin
I agree. They should have a second referendum. No deal Brexit wasn't one of the options of the first referendum.
Don't confuse being part of the Euro and being a member of the EU. The UK was never part of the Euro and that should stay the same. Leaving the EU will ensure the UK does worse economically.