Britain threatens Brexit cliff-edge to force EU trade deal by Dec 2020

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the feeling that Britain needs the EU more than the other way around.

Let them leave, deal or no deal, just make sure Ireland and Northern Ireland are finally united!

Actually no. While it would be mutually beneficial, the EU mandarins are far more likely to cut off their noses to spite their face. The prospect of a cliff edge will concentrate their minds and bring pressure from across European industry for them to negotiate sensibly and not play their silly bureaucratic ivy towered games trying to “punish” the UK for having the temerity to not do as they require.

The prospect of a cliff edge will concentrate their minds and bring pressure from across European industry for them to negotiate sensibly

From European industry's point of view, acting sensibly probably includes ensuring future production of things such as cars and whatever else is consumed within the EU happens within the EU.

Johnson and U.S. President Donald Trump agreed in a phone call on Monday to pursue an "ambitious" UK-U.S. free trade agreement.

As a Brit, this is what scares me the most. The country has chosen to leave. Fair enough. Therefore, I support a CANZUK deal- open borders+ complete FTA between CAN, UK, OZ and NZ. However, the idea of a close trade agreement with the US, ESPECIALLY under this POTUS and UK PM working together scares the heck out of me.

Johnson won because the English insist on jumping off the Brexit cliff. English arrogance and xenophobia will mean a much diminished Little England...

Excellent. SO glad Boris won! Let's get on with it.

We'll get BREXIT. Scotland should have SCEXIT. Break up one union, expect the breakup of another union.

We now know that trade deals don't do much. Under NAFTA, US workers' wages stagnated and fell, while Mexico became more of a socio-economic disaster.

The British didnt vote for a trade deal in the referendum. They voted to leave the EU. No deal Brexit isn't a big deal. Just do it.

From European industry's point of view, acting sensibly probably includes ensuring future production of things such as cars and whatever else is consumed within the EU happens within the EU.

Trade within the EU is frictionless because all of the countries have signed up to certain rules, most importantly the four freedoms. The UK seems to keep on insisting that these rules must not apply to the UK. The end result can only be that frictionless trade cannot happen either.

The haphazard way in which Johnson got his deal with the UK, agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea that Theresa May herself had rejected, suggests there is no commitment to this deal and that it was simply a nugget to present to the British public in an election. The actual plan is to ram home No Deal, something the British people did not vote for and has much bigger ramifications.

From European industry's point of view, acting sensibly probably includes ensuring future production of things such as cars and whatever else is consumed within the EU happens within the EU.

exactly! the EU will make being in the EU more advantageous than leaving,otherwise why would any other EU member want to stay. 800billion pounds in capital has already left the UK for the EU, business can already see the writing on the wall and is preparing for post life Brexit. Ill even predict UK car manufacturing will be almost non existent within 10 yrs, only the luxury players will remain. Those Airbus wings made in the UK, probably no more

A lot of people who voted remain can't wait for the crap to start flying once it happens because it's the people who voted for it that will be most affected,

exactly if the Uk wants to leave then go ahead, but to think that the EU will give favourable conditions to the UK over its own EU members is plain stupidity, Brexit will have consequences and the people thatll hurt the most are those that voted Brexit and rely heavily on trade with the EU

I think the US and the UK are in a very dangerous place, with people voting against their own interests for Trump and Johnson. I fully understand that voters have genuine problems and a right to wish for political change. In Johnson's case though, he represents the party that has spent the last ten years in power creating the predicament people are voting against. He represents more of the same.

When you have people voting against their own interests, it is very tempting to call voters out for foolishness. History is replete with quotations along the line of "Every nation gets the government it deserves".

It's going back a year or so, but the Johnson's now-forgotten "eff business" statement was made in response to them raising concerns about a hard Brexit. It is clearly not what they want.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44618154

If Brexit undermines the GFA, there will be no free trade deal between the US and the UK.

Think about that for a moment.

Johnson will use his control of parliament to outlaw any extension of the Brexit transition period beyond 2020

It is high time. The remainers have spoiled any action on the will of the people for long enough. Go, Boris!

@crapcat

Tired of Johnson's tough guy threats.The EU should say there's 20+ of us and just one UK. Bring it and let the chips fall where they may.

That is misleading. Germany, France, and the UK were the big economies in the EU. The flock of tiny economies around them does not count that much. Without the UK, there is basically just Germany and France, with Merkel and Macaron running the empire. It is a fundamental shift in the power structure.

Domino to fall.

Show must go on !

It is always good to move, EU being quite static with no duly elected leaders

The flock of tiny economies around them does not count that much. Without the UK, there is basically just Germany and France, with Merkel and Macaron running the empire. It is a fundamental shift in the power structure.

If the UK is so powerful, why is it desperately seeking deals elsewhere?

As for the tiny economies, from small acorns, etc. Just wait until Irish unity and Scottish independence.

Toasted Heretic:

If the UK is so powerful, why is it desperately seeking deals elsewhere?

Why desperate? Of course, countries make trade deals. You do not need the Kafakesque Brussels bureacracy for that. Is Japan "desperate" for signing trade deals?

As for the tiny economies, from small acorns, etc. Just wait until Irish unity and Scottish independence.

Oh yes? The Irish and Scottish economies combined are about the GDB of Bavaria. Yes, that is earth-shaking...

In Johnson's case though, he represents the party that has spent the last ten years in power creating the predicament people are voting against

It has been in the Tory DNA since Heath to screw over the less well-off. This had little or nothing to do with being in the EU.

Johnson is in the same mould.

Jimizo, it was Heath as PM who lied, misinformed and deliberately hid the facts from both the British people and the Cabinet so as to manipulate the vote in 1975 and force us in to the EEC on a false premise. Had it stayed the economic trade grouping we thought we were joining I doubt we would have ever bothered to leave. But it didn’t, it morphed in to a supra-national undemocratic behemoth without any reference to the electorate.

Jimizo, it was Heath as PM who lied, misinformed and deliberately hid the facts from both the British people and the Cabinet so as to manipulate the vote in 1975 and force us in to the EEC on a false premise. Had it stayed the economic trade grouping we thought we were joining I doubt we would have ever bothered to leave. But it didn’t, it morphed in to a supra-national undemocratic behemoth without any reference to the electorate.

I’m mostly with you here.

It doesn’t change the fact that the Tories since Heath have screwed over the less well-off and this has little or nothing to do with the European project.

Johnson is in the same mould

The evidence so far says otherwise. Clearly, Johnson is the most pragmatic leader since Churchill. He had no qualms throwing the DUP under the bus when negotiating with the EU, something May could never do, or didn't have the ticker for it.

Then he courted Labour voters in the north and won them over. He's also on the rightside of workers and climate activists in Madrid recently, possibly throwing his banking mates under the bus (mates who hold vast amounts of carbon offset credits).

Yes, the Tories traditionally worship the elites of Britain, but Labour is doing no favour for workers in worshiping the elites of the new global order.

to think that the EU will give favourable conditions to the UK

You're talking like the EU is some kind of powerful benevolent being, ready to rain favours down on those it deals with. It isn't.

The EU, is a dysfunctional collection of antagonistic states bickering over scraps constantly in the hope that the Brussels bureaucrats would do their country good. It doesn't. Greece, Turkey, the PIGS are virtually teetering on economic collapse, the richer nations has got a huge social problem with immigrants, and the poorer nations are loosing their skill base, AND, there is relative low synergy between member states.

Canada, NZ, Australia and the UK on the otherhand are massively complementary, as demonstrated (prior to the UK joining the EU), by NZ having had the world's highest standard if living, the British Pounds had the highest purchasing power (all the Autos brands were thriving), Canada's economy was expanding and Australia having 6 Auto brands making locally developed cars.

Every single country in the EU has its hands tied when it comes to negotiating trade deals, the regulations has forced auto brands to cheat, or get overly complex and uncompetitive.

Seriously, it's done. The market has given the Pounds a 2% gains, the reserve bank is more worried about inflation than capital flight (so give up your 800 billion narrative).

Oh yes? The Irish and Scottish economies combined are about the GDB of Bavaria. Yes, that is earth-shaking...

For sure, it's small beans compared to larger countries. Doesn't mean their rights to leave the union should be sneered at.

The evidence so far says otherwise. Clearly, Johnson is the most pragmatic leader since Churchill.

I had no idea you were such a scholar of modern British political history. More pragmatic than Eden, MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May?

Your posts don’t seem to show much knowledge of the UK ( your strange claim that the overwhelming majority of the ‘struggling classes’ voted Tory was actually pretty much shot down by your own BBC link ).

Impress us further with your knowledge.

Jimizo: Cold. Impressive.

down by your own BBC link

Under the heading 'Conservative made gains...can't you do basic algebra?

Cons went from 13 to 31 seats

Labour went from 72 down to 53

Basic maths is a challenge?

Arguably, in one regard the EU is more democratic than the UK- it has proportional representation. If the commission were actually elected by the parliament, that would be democratic. If the parliament could introduce laws that would be democratic. It's the nations preventing a useful and fully democratic EU parliament. However, subsidiarity should apply (lowest level should do as much as possible)

Maybe I am wrong, but I get the feeling that Britain needs the EU more than the other way around.

Yes, you're wrong.

A soft ( deal ) Brexit makes the UK beholden to everything the EU does without even having a vote. What the EU wants to do is punish the UK as much as possible and bring its economy down in the wake of a soft Brexit so they can point to it and tell other countries this is what happens if you leave the EU. They're going to try and embarrass, humiliate and bring down the UK in every way possible.

Is the UK not functional without the EU? Of course it is, it's one of the bigger powers in the world economically and militarily. It's got a lot of friends including the United States, its greatest ally. Make a trade deal with the U.S. The EU doesn't want you, they don't like you. Why do you want to hang out with these people? You have Brussels syndrome or something? Why don't you understand who your real friends are? Let's say the UK is ass-blasted by a bigger country tomorrow. Do you think the Germans would rise up and put their lives on the line to protect you? You think the French would? The U.S. would, and it wouldn't even matter who is in the White House.

Do a hard Brexit, get the pain out of the way now, it'll be a lot less than if you drag it on for years.