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Kremlin foe Navalny held in pre-trial detention, Moscow tells West to butt out

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Navalny is widely believed to be a far right Russian Nationalist.

No he's not.

He's basically a Russian version of Trump who get unlimited funding from the CIA and spouts his far right rhetoric on a soapbox in Moscow.

Kind of weird comment, considering how flowing your comments are regarding Trump.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Russia isn't the place for free speech.

When comparing Navalny and Putin, it is pretty easy, who has had more Russians killed and jailed under questionable circumstances?

If he doesn't have many followers, then why do Putin's people try to kill him?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

whose foundation specialises in investigations into alleged official corruption.

Though corruption is found in democracies too, it's even more widely prevalent in authoritarian systems where the autocrat and his caste have control over media (sometimes 'partial') and information.

The rouble weakened as investors weighed the risk of new sanctions against Moscow.

Further contributing to a weakening of the rouble must be the Russian Federation seeing continued lower prices for sales of coal, oil and gas, fundamental to its economy. No wonder so many pro-Russians are also climate change deniers.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@theFu

why do Putin's people try to kill him?

They tried, really? With "the most lethal poison in the world"?

Then why did the Germans refuse to demonstrate any proof of the poisoning? Why did the Germans deport Navalny?

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

They tried, really?

Yeah, they tried. The FSB admitted it to Navalny, there's audio of the whole conversation. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/12/21/if-it-hadnt-been-for-the-prompt-work-of-the-medics-fsb-officer-inadvertently-confesses-murder-plot-to-navalny/

Another brilliant winner at the FSB. Lolz

Then why did the Germans refuse to demonstrate any proof of the poisoning?

Who cares the FSB agent admitted it.

Why did the Germans deport Navalny?

He wasn't deported from Germany.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Putin won't even tolerate a comparatively insignificant opposition, let alone one that may turn out to be threatening in some way.

Looks like he has been building up a steel curtain for Russia. What do Russians think?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@takeda.shingen.1991@gmail.com

Yeah, they tried. The FSB admitted it to Navalny

Do you have any idea how toxins really work? Had a real weapons-grade poison been used as this "FSB agent" said (sure, undercover hitmen are so talkative on telephones), there would be many dead people. Look at Navalny, he seems to be healthier then before his "poisonig".

Who cares the FSB agent admitted it

You saw his ID? Anyway, who cares who said what. Show the proof, show the medical records, let the real facts talk for themselves. Ooops?? Zero?

He wasn't deported from Germany

Transferred to the airport by police, ushered to the plane by immigration officials,.. Sure, very voluntary departure.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Navalny is widely believed to be a far right Russian Nationalist.

This is laughably wrong.

And it was the FSB agent’s phone. You’re really going to argue that it was someone else on his mobile? Seriously?

AND.... The Germans escorted him as far as they could to guarantee that no harm came to him on German soil. He said he was leaving of his own volition.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Show the proof, show the medical records, let the real facts talk for themselves. Ooops?? Zero?

Zero, apart from the full clinical details that were published in a medical journal following tests from FIVE OPCW clinics. You can see it below, if you are outside of Russia. Ooops.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32644-1/fulltext

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/12/23/lancet-publishes-german-doctors-navalny-treatment-report-a72459

Look at Navalny, he seems to be healthier then before his "poisonig".

You're argument seems to be increasingly 'he isn't dead so he can't have been poisoned'. Desperate stuff. At least the underpants bit still makes you giggle though.

Sure, very voluntary departure.

He wasn't deported, however you want to pretend that he was. Unlike Russia, Germany operates on rule of law and so any reason for deportation would need to be heard and stated.

He returned to Russia voluntarily fully aware that he would be immediately arrested. They convened the court in a police station, gave his lawyers 1 minute notice of it, cleared out the journalists and sent him to prison for a month.

On the wall of the 'court' was a picture of one of Stalin's Secret Police Chiefs who sent people to gulags. Nice touch Vlad.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The FSB admitted it to Navalny, there's audio of the whole conversation.

To be more accurate, there's audio that purports to be a FSB agent "admitting" things to Navalny. Frankly, it isn't all that plausible a story unless you assume that the FSB doesn't even have basic tradecraft. In any intelligence organization, operations are highly compartmentalized. You need to be a lot more than a random superior to get a report over an unsecured telephone.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@GdTokyo

And it was the FSB agent’s phone. You’re really going to argue that it was someone else

Navalny said it was FSB agent. Why should I believe him or his cheerleaders that it is a real "FSB hitman", ready to blurt it out just to anybody?

The Germans escorted him as far as they could

Sure. In Japan visa overstayers are escorted out in a resembling way,

@ClippetyClop

At least the underpants bit still makes you giggle though

My opponent who found the wonders of underpants at the age 13 strikes again? I hoped you would answer my qestions from our previous conversation.

You can see it below

And we can see very interesting thing. After initial testing German doctors first claimed Navalny was poisoned by the Novichok agent, but the final verdict is "intoxicated by a cholinesterase inhibitor". This menacingly sounding substance can be used as a medicine after drugs overdose, to cure Parkinson and Alzheimer syndroms. Definitely it is not a weapons-grade poison.

he isn't dead so he can't have been poisoned

In order to kill him? Absolutely no. Google your friend, read about VX. Had a real weaponized poison been used, Navalny, all his entourage, everybody on his plane and even half of the population of the city where the plane with Navalny landed would have been dead.

They convened the court in a police station

"Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time". What in UK or US do with people who broke the terms of their parole?

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Asakaze,

This is incomprehensible jibberish and is easily countered by documented facts.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This menacingly sounding substance can be used as a medicine after drugs overdose, to cure Parkinson and Alzheimer syndroms. Definitely it is not a weapons-grade poison.

Nitroglycerin can also be used to treat angina, or remove mountains. The cholinesterase inhibitor used on Navalny put him in a coma and was consistent with Novichok.

Definitely it is not a weapons-grade poison.

Novichok is a banned chemical weapon, weapons-grade

Google your friend, read about VX. Had a real weaponized poison been used, Navalny, all his entourage, everybody on his plane and even half of the population of the city where the plane with Navalny landed would have been dead.

I'm unsure what your point is. Are you saying that if Vlad really wanted him dead he would have used VX and murdered everyone in the vicinity too? Are we supposed to be thankful that he didn't try to kill even more of his own citizens?

What in UK or US do with people who broke the terms of their parole?

Initially they don't try to assisnate them, then refuse to give them life-saving treatment, then refuse them leave to be able to get life-saving treatment, then refuse to investigate the crime, then arrest them upon return from the initial poisoning that they themselves were responsible for.

My opponent who found the wonders of underpants at the age 13 strikes again?

I had a tough upbringing, underwear was a luxury only seen on the TVs in shop windows.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Putin is a thug and a coward who knows his hold on power is tenuous.

Russia, as John McCain said, is a gas station masquerading as a country. They make oil, Kalashnikovs and vodka. It’s time we treated them as such.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@GdTokyo

This is incomprehensible jibberish and is easily countered by documented facts

Try to think logically, not by propaganda slogans. Satori is waiting!

Russia, as John McCain said, is a gas station masquerading as a country

And here is "The incomprehensible jibberish, easily countered by documented facts"!!! lol

@ClippetyClop

The cholinesterase inhibitor used on Navalny put him in a coma

You mean they wanted to kill Navalny with not a weapon-poison, but with some substance with effects nobody can predict? And then sent him to Germany to make it world-known?

I'm unsure what your point is. Are you saying that if Vlad really wanted him dead he would have used VX

My point is simple: if Putin wanted to have somebody poisoned, a real poison, with a confirmed result would be used.

Initially they don't try to assisnate them....

Desperate attempt to mix all? Read carefully my posts from this thread and the previous, you'll find all the answers. And Navalny was arrested for strictly criminal offenses, first of all embezzlement. The Germans knew it, that's why they sent him home. Nobody likes thieves.

I had a tough upbringing, underwear was a luxury

I did not mean to hurt you personally. I'll refrain from further jokes on the subject.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@zichi

Why is Putin so afraid and terrified of his opposition. Could be that he's not that popular

Last year I saw results of some research on popularity. Putin had about 75 percent of support, Navalny 2-3 percent. Navalny is a political zero, political con artist, portraited as a democracy titan only by Western media. If you want to see a real terror of opposition, look what's going on in the USA now, what they do with Trump supporters.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

"No Russian troops in Crimea"

Russian nationalist extremists are no different to Muslim or Trump fanatics. And as equally dangerous.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

You mean they wanted to kill Navalny with not a weapon-poison, but with some substance with effects nobody can predict? And then sent him to Germany to make it world-known?

What substance are you talking about? He wasn't 'sent to Germany', he was taken there to save his life from the doctors who initially thought he was just having some sort of metabolic disorder. He wasn't getting adequate treatment in Omsk.

My point is simple: if Putin wanted to have somebody poisoned, a real poison, with a confirmed result would be used.

Novichok is considered considerably more toxic than your beloved VX, so not sure what you are referring to. The OPCW estimate that only 20% of the required amount was put on the, er, clothing, and that much of it was absorbed. Poor delivery by the FSB, as in Salisbury.

And Navalny was arrested for strictly criminal offenses, first of all embezzlement. The Germans knew it, that's why they sent him home. Nobody likes thieves.

They didn't send him home, no matter how hard you want this to be true. And do you know how rich Vlad is thesedays? How much do you think he has stolen? $70 billion? $200 billion?

I did not mean to hurt you personally. I'll refrain from further jokes on the subject.

I was only joking, but let's both drop the underpants. Not in that way of course.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

My point is simple: if Putin wanted to have somebody poisoned, a real poison, with a confirmed result would be used.

They used a real poison and only allowed him to leave because they believed he would be dead very soon. Better he die outside Russia so the Putin- $0.50 cent-per-post team can claim Russia and Putin had nothing to do with it.

How many suspects has Russia arrested in the poisoning attempt? Did they even look? Why is it that Russians seem to be poisoned using poisons traced back to Russian batches? Either the Russian govt has terrible security or they are proving the poisons. Either way, Putin is responsible.

FUD from the Putin- $0.50 cent-per-post team.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@ClippetyClop

What substance are you talking about?

Stay focused, I'm talking about cholinesterase inhibitor. Why use this thing with dubious results, instead of real poison?

He wasn't 'sent to Germany', he was taken there

"Potato, poteto". So, FSB first "tried to kill" Navalny, then allowed to take him urgently to Germany to be saved? And have "the crime" discovered by the Germans? Seriously, do you believe in this?

Novichok is considered considerably more toxic than your beloved VX, so not sure what you are referring to

Again, stay focused, read carefully. I referred to VX as an example of really lethal poison. If Novichok was really used (and you say it's much more toxic), then Navalny and everybody around him would be dead, no matter how small was the used amount.

as in Salisbury

Oh, yes! "Skripal's pets' great massacre". Why this thing died down? Where are medical records, where are "poisoned" Skripal with his daughter?

And do you know how rich Vlad is thesedays?

No. Enlighten me. Give me facts. I mean real facts, not the usual media blah-blah. @Zichi has already made claims about Putin's palaces and yachts, but failed to name them when I asked.

@theFu

They used a real poison

The anti-Putin $0.50 cent-per-post team post the same thing all over again. The same to you: if a real poison was used, Navalny would be dead.

@zichi

approval rating has hit a historic low of 59%

Any Western leader would love to have such low rating! What about Navalny in this polls, 2 percent or less?

some even try to protest in Red Square but are arrested

So? If somebody stage a protest here not at a designed place, but near the entrance to the Imperial Palace, he also would be arrested.

The post isn't about what's happening in America

Sometimes to compare things in different countries is very instructive.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"No Russian troops in Crimea"

That isn't even close to true. The actual Russian military units are all known. The Russians are not hiding it at all. The Russian Navy was heavily involved and anyone watching video and live feeds of the action could clearly see Russian naval units, ships only the Russians had in their inventory, involved in blockading Crimean ports early in the conflict. The old Nikolayev Class Cruiser Azov (I have encountered her sister ships at sea) was sunk to block one port so the Ukrainians could not escape.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"No Russian troops in Crimea"

Vladimir Putin even stated Russian troops were used to invade the Crimea in a 17 April 2014 public statement, saying the use of Russian forces was necessary "to ensure proper conditions for the people of Crimea to be able to freely express their will". The Russian Defense Minister acknowledged the use of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in the defeat of Ukrainian forces, something this old naval officer already knew from watching the action. Don't try to tell me there were not Russian forces involved because it was painfully obvious.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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