Trump calls for ending visa program after New York attack; blasts Democrats

8 people die tragically and the president calls for changing laws. 59 killed and hundreds wounded and no changes. I guess only those killed by Muslim terrorists count.

I actually applied for the green card lottery on a whim back in the 1990s when I was younger. I didn't win, but I remember thinking how funny it was that a country would choose to run its immigration system like a bingo game that everyone in the world could play. There was no requirement to speak english, no need for minimum savings to support yourself when you first arrive, only a highschool education required. Considering America is one of the most desirable destinations for immigrants, they can probably afford to be a bit choosier.

There was no requirement to speak english,

Unlike Japan where the national language is of course Japanese, the US has no "official" language, so being able to speak English would not be a requirement.

"CrazyJoe", it counts because there is a clear way to prevent RANDOM "people, chosen by the methods of CHAOS to appear in society just because the numbers matched. It was an idiot who came up with this program to begin with, a major fool. The only excuse would be that it happened before the terrorism became a thing. This program, in concept no different from casino, should be closed down immediately.

8 people die tragically and the president calls for changing laws. 59 killed and hundreds wounded and no changes. I guess only those killed by Muslim terrorists count.

Maybe because terrorism and immigration are federal policies under direct control of the president and Congress. Nevada gun laws not so much.

Oh and to why the mass shooting does not count - because banning the weaponry would make most rednecks lose their toys and only feeling of power and importance as a part of armed citizenship. One of those tragedies could be prevented without breaking the America apart.

@liz Maybe because terrorism and immigration are federal policies under direct control of the president and Congress. Nevada gun laws not so much.

From a statistical standpoint (after all, it’s about acceptable risk to some) which group, those who murder using legal weapons, or immigrants, pose the greatest threat to those living in the US?

From a statistical standpoint (after all, it’s about acceptable risk to some) which group, those who murder using legal weapons, or immigrants, pose the greatest threat to those living in the US?

It doesn't make sense considering this terrorist did not use illegal weapons. But the overriding considering is what actions the government can take which would actually impact the problems of terrorism and murder. Much more in the case of immigration and terrorism than in the case of attempting to get rid of guns (which would likely only make the homicide rate worse).

Seems to be a bit late, they're already in the Country.

Surprised he hasn't banned Muslims from renting Cars & Tucks.

Yeah why bother about Nevada gun laws. He was a lone wolf not a terrorist.

And this is how Trump unites the nation after a terrorist attack...

8 people die tragically and the president calls for changing laws. 59 killed and hundreds wounded and no changes.

Your point would make a little sense if the immigrantion lottery was part of the Bill of Rights. But alas it is not. But leave it to Socialists to seek to regulate the Supreme law of the land out of existence. Too much freedom is a threat to their ability to micromanage every minute of people’s lives.

Chuck Schumer, who accused Trump of politicizing a national tragedy.

Says the hypocrite who politicizes every tragedy even tangentially related to his party’s attacks on the Constitutional rights of Americans.

Yeah the contrast in response to the Vegas terrorist attack is mind blowing:

58 slaughtered by non-Muslim domestic terroist = “it’s not the time to talk about it”

8 slaughtered by Muslim domestic terrorist: “we need to completely end visa program he came in on and treat as enemy combatant”

In terms of immigration policies, the US have always been much closer to western Europe than say Japan or oz who are the masters of the "merit-based/ if you don't have $ or skills you're not welcome" visa system Trump's dreaming of. How 'romantic' is this visa lottery system! 

On paper, us/old Europe's egalitarian ideology (when it comes to immigration) i.e no race/religion/social status discrimination is much fairer but I do think Japan/oz' ultra-pragmatic some would say racist system does have its benefits and is probably safer in today's world. You probably need some sort of cherry-picking/screening to decide who comes to your country these days and lotteries & 'bring you whole family if you want' systems are probably inadequate in today's world.

Good move and long overdo.

Goldorak.

Kinda agree, back home(Europe) you need to be fluent in our language to get PR, live and work for 10yrs before you are considered to receive papers for applying for citizenship. Even refugees have to go undergo compulsory lessons,

No guarantees we don't hand out citizenship easily. I know the USA don't have an official language. Like we or Japan do.

I think at the end of the day, Republicans are just too fearful to allow in Muslim immigrants. They will most likely do whatever it takes to keep out as many Muslims as possible so their level of fear becomes at least manageable.

I think at the end of the day, Republicans are just too fearful to allow in Muslim immigrants. They will most likely do whatever it takes to keep out as many Muslims as possible so their level of fear becomes at least manageable.

Bingo.

Jack Shafer at Politico sums up Trump's response very well:

--Trump’s tweets reveal him not to be the modern colossus of power that he pictures himself to be, but a sniveling, unimaginative, finger-pointer looking for the cheapest way to score political points using the blood of the victims.--

I think at the end of the day, Republicans are just too fearful to allow in Muslim immigrants.

They definitely need to do away with the program and initiate a program based on merit and extreme and vigorous vetting. Let’s not kid ourselves of the people that want to kill us in the name of a radical religious ideology. From 1993 until 2017 there have been too many attacks done by radical islamists that want to do anything and everything using any means to kill as many Americans as possible, so the president is right in this move and if his opponents disapprove, so be it.

They will most likely do whatever it takes to keep out as many Muslims as possible so their level of fear becomes at least manageable.

Radical Islamists without a doubt, but this ruse that they don’t want Muslims is a left win deranged farce. Go to California and go to Glendale, we have a huge Iranian population and I don’t see people resenting them, panicking or worrying about them. I think the left (as usual) want to make it a racial (sigh) topic once again.

They definitely need to do away with the program and initiate a program based on merit and extreme and vigorous vetting. Let’s not kid ourselves of the people that want to kill us in the name of a radical religious ideology.

I can understand being opposed to this visa lottery program for other reasons, but terrorism has nothing to do with it. Saipov is not an "enemy combatant". He is a permanent resident and was radicalized within the US. It's not difficult for people to be swayed by online propaganda (as evidenced by Trump's election win in 2016).

As for Trump blaming Schumer for this program, perhaps he'd like to rip apart George H.W. Bush on Twitter as well. He's the president who signed it into law in 1990. Schumer, in fact, was part of a bipartisan group of senators who tried to end the program in 2013. The Senate voted to end it, but the bill died in the House, you know, the one controlled by the GOP.

Trump leaps into action from his potty and talks about slashing his way through a forest of PC to keep Americans safe.

Very predictable.

Is Uzbekistan going to be added to his list of banned countries in his order thrown out by judges?

A real man of action.

They definitely need to do away with the program and initiate a program based on merit and extreme and vigorous vetting.

Yeah, you don't even know what that means if I asked you for specifics. Over the last couple of years you've demonstrated no knowledge of the current vetting process other than to say it doesn't exist, which is a clear lie, which shows the extent you'll go to stop Muslims from entering.

And now that you've been called out for knowing nothing about the current vetting process, you'll respond with bombast, but at no point will you demonstrate any knowledge of the current vetting process.

Let’s not kid ourselves of the people that want to kill us in the name of a radical religious ideology. From 1993 until 2017 there have been too many attacks done by radical islamists that want to do anything and everything using any means to kill as many Americans as possible, so the president is right in this move and if his opponents disapprove, so be it.

Yeah, I get it. You're afraid of them and you want Trump to keep them out so you'll feel less paranoid. Then you'll toss in some, "We just need Muslim plastic surgeons with a guarantee that no crimes will ever be committed, then I'm OK." All because you don't have the balls to say you are afraid of Muslims coming to America.

Radical Islamists without a doubt, but this ruse that they don’t want Muslims is a left win deranged farce.

You voted for a guy calling for a blanket ban of all Muslims entering the US. And if you can show me where you stood up to him and said NO, then please paste it here. But it doesn't exist.

I'd respect you more if you just came out and said you're afraid.

I occasionally see 'Apply for the green card lottery' links on random websites or even in my email, and I always assumed they were scams - click on the link and get a virus/get sent to a porn site kinda thing.

I never once imagined anyone would seriously think immigration to the US (or any country) was something to be decided so easily and so randomly.

Never realised it was a real thing. Always made a point of not clicking on the link. (Not that I would ever consider moving to the US, even if Trump turned up on my doorstep waving my green card and offering transportation on his private jet.)

According to the BBC, around 1 million people with no ties to the US have been granted visas through the scheme since 1995. Applicants from the UK, Canada, Mexico, India and China cannot apply. Candidates must have a face-to-face interview with US immigration officials, and anyone found to have any terrorist connections are rejected.

Since the lottery winners are already vetted, how would Trump's 'extreme vetting' produce any different results?

Trump said he would consider sending the suspect,.... to the military prison at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay

Trump considers Saipov an "enemy combatant,"

Does the US President have the authority to decide off the top of his head and on his own bat, the legal status of a criminal? Or to decide what punishment he should receive, and where, before any trial has been held?

Any coincidence that 3 of Trump's campaign collaborators get arrested this week and Trump finds some excuse/event to throw his dictatorial weight around and pop off the chops again. The suspect is from Uzbekistan, an ally in the so-called 'war on terror'. However, he got radicalized in America and the greatest danger to America is WITHIN America.

As for Trump blaming Schumer for this program, perhaps he'd like to rip apart George H.W. Bush on Twitter as well. He's the president who signed it into law in 1990. Schumer, in fact, was part of a bipartisan group of senators who tried to end the program in 2013. The Senate voted to end it, but the bill died in the House, you know, the one controlled by the GOP.

Yes, very true, but No one ever said, the GOP were always perfect.

Trump leaps into action from his potty and talks about slashing his way through a forest of PC to keep Americans safe. 

As he should.

Is Uzbekistan going to be added to his list of banned countries in his order thrown out by judges? 

Will see, we live in hope and prayer.

Yeah, you don't even know what that means if I asked you for specifics.

Right back at you.

Over the last couple of years you've demonstrated no knowledge of the current vetting process other than to say it doesn't exist, which is a clear lie, which shows the extent you'll go to stop Muslims from entering.

Over the years, I’ve given numerous explanations on exactly what the administration should do, don’t play that come. You just didn’t like or agreed with what I proposed and that’s ok, we think differently when it comes to this issue. I’m not here to entertain what makes you feel comfortable and calm.

Trump toys with sending those legally in America to Gitmo again. This should alarm even Repubs - if normalized, who could be next? Of course, it will never happen (but then, of course, there was no way this clown would ever become president) because he's wrong about everything and Americans are better than that. Trump is a dangerous fool. His quote is below:

We have to come up with punishment that’s far quicker and far greater than the punishment these animals are getting right now. They’ll go through court for years. At the end, they’ll be — who knows what happens. We need quick justice, and we need strong justice. Much quicker and much stronger than we have right now, because what we have right now is a joke, and it’s a laughing stock. And no wonder so much of this stuff takes place.

Yes he can go to Gitmo and he should. He is “unrepentant and defiant” “happy he killed innocent people” and wants to “hang the ISIS flag in his hospital room”.

If we granted him legal residence we can obviously take that back for a crime of that nature. Then off to Gitmo he goes.

Trump toys with sending those legally in America to Gitmo again. 

He should, especially the guy says he enjoyed mowing down those people, Yeah, she should go to Gitmo and stay there.

This should alarm even Repubs - if normalized, who could be next?

I never worry about that, I'm not a terrorist, so I don't worry or think about it. But if you are a terrorist and you are thinking about it, then you should be worried.

Of course, it will never happen (but then, of course, there was no way this clown would ever become president)

And we were so lucky to dodged that other bullet of a sham candidate.

because he's wrong about everything and Americans are better than that. Trump is a dangerous fool. 

Dunno, been right on a lot of things and what happened the other proves he was right again.

Typical Trump. Takes a heinous act of violent terrorism and uses it as an attempt to undermine the criminal justice system and the constitution of the USA by advocating the un-American oubliette that is Gitmo.

Yeah, she should go to Gitmo and stay there.

Do you think Dylan Roof should be sent to Gitmo without trial for shooting 9 people?

bass4funkToday  12:46 pm JST

I never worry about that, I'm not a terrorist, so I don't worry or think about it. 

Yes, yes, we already know you're white. You don't have to tell us again.

Do you think Dylan Roof should be sent to Gitmo without trial for shooting 9 people?

He's an American citizen, he should be locked up and kept in solitary confinement until his last days. Also, he's not part of a bigger cell that is international that belongs to a radical version of Islam that advocates killing infidels.

Over the years you've shown a willful ignorance ad to what the current vetting process is.

Not at all, but I do feel the people that are against are showing a sign of woeful ignorance.

And despite numerous attempts from numerous people to explain it to you, you still default to the lie that there is no process.

Back at you, you also refuse to accept my proposals that I have outlined in the past, so we don't have to argue about this, You think I am wrong and that's ok and I think you are wrong. Simple.

You are utterly afraid and you will lie to make things sound worse than they are because you are terrified of Muslims but don't have the guts to come out and say it.

No, I'm not terrified, but I don't choose to keep my head in the sand in order to be PC.

Do you think Dylan Roof should be sent to Gitmo without trial for shooting 9 people?

Probably not, because he at least "belongs" here. His logic, not mine.

He's an American citizen, he should be locked up and kept in solitary confinement until his last days. Also, he's not part of a bigger cell that is international that belongs to a radical version of Islam that advocates killing infidels.

Trump actually favors putting American citizen terrorists in Gitmo. And torturing them. Dylan Roof the white supremacist is as much part of a "bigger cell" that advocates killing certain groups of people as is anyone inspired by ISIS (including Saipov).

So, as a Trump supporter do you think Dylan Roof should be sent to Gitmo? Or only Muslims? Can you specify what types of people do not need to be given due process of law? Is there any reason for locking these people up at Gitmo indefinitely and without trial besides 1) that the government doesn't have to bother with the 'nuisance' of the law, or 2) that this manly act of flipping the bird to due process gives Trumpists a collective chubby?

Pesky lil' things like "law" and "Constitution" keep thwarting Trump's schemes.

Our criminal justice system is based on the Constitution. Under due process, this individual, like it or not, came into the US legally, is a lawful permanent resident and has rights under the Constitution.

That was a Republican, Rep. Mike McCaul. I'm not defending the perpetrator; it's simply better (not to mention legally required) that he receive American justice on American soil with him sentenced to life at a Supermax rather than some extra-judicial mumbo jumbo on foreign soil (as Gitmo is).

It's so friggin' simple one despairs that Trump does not comprehend this.

Any American who would seek to deny anyone the protections of the USA's constitution neither understands the soul of the document or believes in what it represents: a bold statement against the tryranny of governments and majorities, a demand for respect of individual liberties, and a charge that all people rise above the mire that is mediocrity and mob rule, among other things. The worst of false patriots will espouse inveterate belief in the Second Amendment while wiping their backsides with the concepts of due process, freedom of speech, habeas corpus, and many more of the seminal concepts that the USA fashioned into a rare stand against the worst demons of human nature. The right to say what you want, the right to bear arms, the right to a timely trial and to confront one's accusers, these are all inviolate aspects of being an American. Any who would pick and choose, any who would denigrate one in favor of the other, does not deserve these rights... But they are, as they should be, entitled to them anyway, as an American. Any sophistry relied upon to deny these ideals to anyone based upon "wartime" or "enemy combatant" excuses is pandering and simply admitting they do not believe in the universality of the concepts. The USA's constitution IS a death pact and Americans should be willing to die in the defense of it in its entirety.

bass4funk: you also refuse to accept my proposals

So many responses and still no demonstration of a single ounce of knowledge about our current vetting process.

Trump actually favors putting American citizen terrorists in Gitmo.

Don’t do the crime if you don’t want to do the time.

And torturing them.

Enhanced interrogation is not torture, but if it helps to get info from terrorists like ISIS, I would not object to it.

Dylan Roof the white supremacist is as much part of a "bigger cell" that advocates killing certain groups of people as is anyone inspired by ISIS (including Saipov).

Oh, please. For example?

So, as a Trump supporter do you think Dylan Roof should be sent to Gitmo?

I already answered that question. If they make a section for violent offenders, fine. Let’s make a different category than the ones we already have built for Jihadists. Maybe you have sympathy or you feel some compassion for them, I do not, not even a little.

Or only Muslims? Can you specify what types of people do not need to be given due process of law?

Radical Islamic foreign terrorists. Seriously, who are the people that want to kill all Americans and who think that we are infidels and as such don’t have the right to even draw breath?

Is there any reason for locking these people up at Gitmo indefinitely and without trial besides 1) that the government doesn't have to bother with the 'nuisance' of the law, or 2) that this manly act of flipping the bird to due process gives Trumpists a collective chubby?

A What?

Black.

Try some of those enhanced interrogation techniques yourself.

Having a soaked clothes stuffed down your face to simulate drowning is NOT my idea of a good time.

It amazes me how people whittle at the egocentric edges, you know who you are, and refuse to admit that the whole of the constitution is the grace of the USA, one cannot pick-and-choose. 1st, 2nd, 5th, separation of church and state, heaves corpus... Just to name a few, none better than the other, that must be upheld... And the USA, as usual, is straddled with another Megalomaniac that thinks they are better than the law. A pox on any who would defend those who carve and tread upon the constitution and legal ideals of the USA.

I think at the end of the day, Republicans are just too fearful to allow in Muslim immigrants. 

I would say they are paranoid and ignorant.

My sister (formerly Catholic) her husband (formerly Methodist) converted to the Baha'i Faith many, many, years ago, they and their children are some of the finest people I know.

On the other hand, my oldest brother converted to the Lutheran faith, and he scares the guano out of everyone in the family with his BS rhetoric and "Christians are better than thou".

I'll take the average devout Muslim over his craziness any day of the week!

I never worry about that, I'm not a terrorist, so I don't worry or think about it. But if you are a terrorist and you are thinking about it, then you should be worried. Unless your a white American who wants to go on a shooting rampage through a school or concert. their weapons are readily available, the victims in plentiful supply with easy access. Your much more likely to be gunned down by a fellow American than killed by a Muslim immigrant. More Americans are killed in gun crime every year than all Americans killed in the US by Muslims in the last 50yrs.

A pox on any who would defend those who carve and tread upon the constitution and legal ideals of the USA. wow you make the American constitution sound like a manual for a cultist group. How is it any different than say a Muslim, Christian, Jew etc defending their faith!?

Radical Islamic foreign terrorists. Seriously, who are the people that want to kill all Americans. actually mostly other Americans want to kill Americans, the statistic speak for themselves.

What Trump and a lot of people on this site seem to overlook is that the Diversity Visa Lottery Program isn't about letting Muslim immigrants into the US; most applicants in the past came from Europe.

When I was living in the UK in the mid 90's most of the people I know that applied for it were Irish. And many of those actually got it. As it turns out, it's a booby prize if you don't actually stay in the US, because if you have a Green Card, you have to pay US taxes when living outside the US.