Trump and Biden clash over cause of wildfires as blazes become election issue

"When you get into climate change, well is India going to change its ways? And is China going to change its ways? And Russia? Is Russia going to change its ways?"

So if China and Russia don't change their ways, Americ won't.

The Chinese say that if USA and India don't change their ways, they won't.

The Indians say if America and China won't change their ways, they won't.

And therefore, nothing changes.

California Governor Gavin Newsom acknowledged that his state had not done enough to manage forests and has acknowledged that over 100 years of fire suppression has allowed fuel to build up.

And there we have it. Buried in the lede, some 12 paragraphs down, Governor Newsome admits what we all knew to be true. Poor forest management.

So America stops burning fossil fuels and China, India and Russia overtake America economically. Oh, and the climate keeps changing because, guess what, that's what the Earth does, has been for countless centuries. Sounds great!

Trump has referred to climate change as a "hoax' 

This is misleading. Trump is saying the notion that climate change is caused mainly by human activity is a hoax. As if changes in the Earth's climate are not mostly caused by natural phenomena.

But yeah, let's elect Joe Biden, who has done virtually nothing in 47 years in government because now, all of a sudden he's the man who can fix everything!

let's elect Joe Biden, who has done virtually nothing in 47 years in government

Compared to Trump, under whom the country is burning down with protests and social unrest, and infected with a disease ravaging the country unlike almost any other.

Doing nothing would be better than doing what Trump has done.

I think climate change definitely plays a part in the wildfires, globally, . . . by the way, does anyone know if the COVID-19 pandemic has caused more or less energy usage?

Perhaps California should try raking it's forests like Finland to prevent wildfires. . .oh wait.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-46256296

Cause? Cause of the fires? Try it with an "s". Causes. There are multiple causes for multiple fires.

But I don't think climate change was a primary cause of the start of the fires. But perhaps it was a primary cause of the severity. Best not to try and make this primarily about climate change over the other causes I think.

Typical pro-elite, pro-establishment, political extremist response: stop burning fossil fuel, not burn less. Not find better ways to power vehicles, homes and industry. For the extremists it's all or nothing.

Typical extremist response: if the US doesn't keep burning huge amounts of fossil fuels China, India and Russia will overtake it.

Extremists don't say find better alternatives to burning so much fuel, they don't say support new alternative energy industries that could boost the economy, they say just keep doing the same old same old, just keep the same old fossils running the fossil economy.

Alternatives to burning obscene amounts of fossil fuels to power vehicles, homes and industries is looked at as 'progress' by the regressive right, something that wasn't done in the 1950s when they thought America was 'great'.

It's not surprising that 'western' far rightists have joined forces with Russia, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and other big oil states that want to keep the world dependent on burning huge amounts of oil and gas.

let's elect Joe Biden, who has done virtually nothing in 47 years in government

Compared to Trump, under whom the country is burning down with protests and social unrest, and infected with a disease ravaging the country unlike almost any other.

Yeah, protests / riots in Democrat-run cities, and coronavirus has ravaged A LOT of countries.

And then, explosive trees? Oh never mind... it's just another Trump thingie.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”  - Joe Biden

Does anyone know if there are major fires also in western Canada? I’m asking to see if the Canadian side uses “forest management” and therefore it is somewhat more under control, or if they are having about the same amount of fires.

 does anyone know if the COVID-19 pandemic has caused more or less energy usage?

July 30 - U.S. energy consumption plummeted to its lowest level in more than 30 years this spring as the nation’s economy largely shut down because of the coronavirus, federal officials reported Wednesday.

The drop was driven by less demand for coal that is burned for electricity and oil that’s refined into gasoline and jet fuel, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said.

The declines were in line with lower energy usage around the globe as the pandemic seized up economies.

https://apnews.com/08597d40a9ae36cb5ebe2710a5744846

ires also in western Canada? 

This year hasn't been as bad as previous ones.

https://nationalpost.com/news/as-much-of-u-s-burns-western-canada-has-quieter-than-usual-wildfire-season-due-to-rain-and-covid-lockdowns

It is not the country under Trump that is burning.... only Dem Cities and States are.

Finally....the chickens have come home to roost.

Yeah, protests / riots in Democrat-run cities, and coronavirus has ravaged A LOT of countries.

It's Trump's America. Civil unrest belongs to the president. It always happens when the president is incompetent.

Trump's virus has ravaged America, and Trump's policies weakened it from within. Now Trump's economy has failed.

All Trump. You guys elected a complete loser in 2016, and Americans are paying for it every day.

Basically their positions are as follows...

Biden: Climate change is and has been a major reason for the increase of fires.

Trump: If they would rake the leaves, then there wouldn't be so many fires.

As I posted yesterday, there are no arsonists. Just one homeless guy. The rest of the fires were due to extreme conditions.

There is no opinion on this matter, only facts, and those are the facts,

49 days to go

But yeah, let's elect Joe Biden, who has done virtually nothing in 47 years in government because now, all of a sudden he's the man who can fix everything.

The environmental activists and their overly restrictive radical preventive programs are the main reason why we are having all these fires.

No there have been multiple arson arrests. One guy used a Molotov cocktail, near Portland.

As I posted yesterday, there are no arsonists. 

No there have been multiple arson arrests. One guy used a Molotov cocktail, near Portland.

Yeah, it's been reported that it was extreme right-wingers, trying to sow dissent by blaming it on Antifa.

The plots stacked against Trump. Blame of COVID, audio clips, Mail-in ballots, BLM rioting, unrest and burning, and more burning in large scale, so on and so forth. I'm sure the plots will intensify since the time is coming near election. If plan A, B, C don't work, there always will be D, E, F, etc... The message is clear. Vote Democrat now and forever or face the consequences.

Vote Democrat now and forever or face the consequences.

Hear! Hear! Maybe not forever, but at least this year. Anyone but Trump and his syndicate made up of the global elite fossils.

This is misleading. Trump is saying the notion that climate change is caused mainly by human activity is a hoax. As if changes in the Earth's climate are not mostly caused by natural phenomena.

Wha???!! LOL.

Trump's saying climate change is a real thing, but the nature is causing it, thus the change is real but the human cause is the hoax?

Pfffft. NO, that's even dumber than just denying climate change.

Right-wing talking points on these fires are demonstrably ignorant and stupid.

I bet his main source is the movie "2012"

Trump lacks the patience to sit through a movie. His main sources are probably Hannity, the globe's oil barons, Ramtha and Qanon.

Right in this article.

*After four days of brutally hot, windy conditions in Oregon, the weekend brought calmer winds blowing inland from the Pacific Ocean, and cooler, moister weather that helped crews make headway against blazes that burned unchecked last week.*

So not only will it get cooler, it already has.

Fires are natural part of the West Coast sage-brush chaparral and forested biomes. In the past few years, seasonal fires are bigger and last longer. Here are the four main reasons:

First, Climate change has made the weather hotter, which creates lots of dry, brittle undergrowth that makes perfect tinder for wildfires.

Second, lingering heat. In the the past, fires settled down a bit at night when temps went down. Now, thanks to higher nighttime temperatures they just keep spreading.

Third, forested biomes are not natural. For the past several decades the timber industry has clear-cut California forests and replaced them with dense new plantings. These new “forests” have no natural firebreaks to stop fires from spreading at warp speed.

Fourth, The local power company, PG&E, is unusually greedy and has refused to spend the money necessary to clear trees from around its power lines. Every stray spark from a PG&E line is a potential fire starter.

Last year was Australia, followed by the driest (lack of snow) winter so far and not just regional but globally. And now California's skies are the image of what an Apocalypse would look like. And these events have all happened in under 12 months. The signs for global warming or at least global climate change are there and denying it, is simply dang stupid.

Hear! Hear! Maybe not forever, but at least this year. Anyone but Trump and his syndicate made up of the globalelite fossils.

I like cheap gas. I don't want to pay $3-4 gas like during Obama. If you haven't already noticed. The Democrats want to hold on to power forever. Obama had his 8 years. I always have the impression that these two parties take turn. Trump should really have 8 years after Obama's 8 years but no Clinton wanted her 8 years. Democrats shouldn't have the power of media, to blind people's eyes and cover people's ears. And then there's the brainwashing that Democrats are the good guys. If I remember correctly, this started during college. I wasn't interested in politics or anything but my college friends seemed to already have problem accepting different views. Of course, they were brainwashed by the educators who were brainwashed by those before them. I'm an outsider looking in and I see this problematic imbalance so clearly.

As bad as Trump’s logic is on this one, I think he’s winning the argument. Not because he’s right, but because forest management is easier to understand as a n immediate or sooner solution to forest fires Than taking steps to reduce global warming.

He’s simply taking the short term stance because it will get him reelected.

Garthgoyle

I say the evidence for global climate is clear and convincing.

What is surprising and a bit scary is the effects like more frequent and powerful hurricanes, wildfires and the increase in desertification of marginal crop land have largely outpaced our models.

It's scary because natural systems have a way of rapidly changing with slight changes in the underlying dynamics. Case in point: the potential shutdown of the thermohaline circulation, which would trigger cooling in the North Atlantic, Europe, and North America

Simply put, humans are playing with fire here.

Bugle Boy 

Trump is losing the argument because Americans don't trust him. Not just 'cause he lied so much about so many things. But because he lied to America about Covid 19.

Calling Trump a "climate arsonist,"

A devastating, accurate summation and label. This will stick on Trump.

“It’ll start getting cooler, you just watch,” he said. “I don’t think science knows.”

Who says our president isn’t the smartest person in the world? He knows enough to know it gets cooler in the winter. What a brilliant stable genius!!!

Was Joe Biden a climate change pioneer in Congress? History says yes.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/may/08/joe-biden/was-joe-biden-climate-change-pioneer-congress-hist/

There were no fires started by multitudes of arsonists nor antifa.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/facebook-take-down-false-reports-antifa-arson-oregon-n1239966

https://filmdaily.co/news/california-wildfires-arson-rumors/

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/09/11/false-tales-of-arson-spread-along-with-deadly-wildfires-in-western-us/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/us/antifa-wildfires.html

But some people would rather ignore facts.

Artistatlarge

The right in America are enemies of reason. They don't only ignore facts. They make them up. And believe them. And then repeat them. Over and over again.

The right in America cannot be reasoned with. They can only be defeated.

What? Biden doesn’t even know who he supposedly worked with on climate change.

Biden says he worked on 2016 climate accord with leader who died in 1997

https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/biden-says-he-worked-on-2016-climate-accord-with-leader-who-died-in-1997/

Hear! Hear! Maybe not forever, but at least this year.

California in the suburbs has been on the decline for years and it explains the mass exodus, a bit longer than a year, more like since 1989....

Anyone but Trump and his syndicate made up of the global elite fossils.

Sure if you want the country to look like Compton.

Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden on Monday called President Donald Trump a "climate arsonist" for failing to acknowledge the role of global warming in the Western U.S. wildfires, while Trump said forest management was the key to controlling the blazes.

'Climate Arsonist' that's a nice tag for trump.

Since he is so concerned about the dry leaves why not send in some of his brainless followers to rake the forests !!!

Makes perfect sense.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/2/letter-to-the-editor-democrats-have-ruined-califor/

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Democratic-policies-have-made-California-poorer-12253618.php

California’s has America’s highest poverty rate at 20.6 percent, according to the Census Bureau’s Supplemental Poverty Measure, which experts consider the best measurement of poverty, as it accounts for cost-of-living factors such as taxes, housing and medical costs

The failure to pursue rational water policies, such as expanding our water storage infrastructure, deepens droughts. The result is forced conservation, which requires local water agencies to raise rates to compensate for reduced revenues.

This statement implies that the president is weaker than governors and mayors. Makes perfect sense.

Which was Dems masterplan.... a product of a stale mind.

So obvious since 2016 from Russia/Ukraine Impeachment to COVID and HCQ ban. Of course the looting, burning and Dems 50-year promise of racial justice.

Envy and hatred of MAGA is clear as day....even Stevie Wonder can see it in living color.

Btw....the Wall is up. What say you...Dems?

Mr. Trump complains about forest management but states have absolutely no authority to manage Federal lands. State laws do not apply on Federal lands and Federal employees are not under state labor laws. States have no authority to regulate or manage the National Forests. The big fires in the west coast are burning primarily in National Forests. In California for example, 57% of the forests are on Federal land while only 3% are on state lands.

The problem is that funding for the US Forest Service has been badly underfunded for decades. They have lost much of their corporate knowledge on how to conduct good forest management as the old gray beards have retired and fewer new employees have come in to replace them while forest management and controlled burn programs have been curtailed or even eliminated due to funding constraints. Add in a century of poor forest management where US Forest Service managed the forests as tree farms rather than the diverse environments they should be. Logging has left the forests unnatural and dangerous. Small trees are left, understory is not removed and logging debris left where it falls. This is part of what is making the fires so intense. Add in record heat, it was 121 degrees F (50 degrees C) in an LA suburb last week, the highest temp ever recorded in LA County. Lots of reasons but blaming the state is ridiculous. The states have no authority over the Federal government on Federal lands.

For the 100th time,

For the 100th time, you just need to take a drive and you can see it for yourself not to mention even sane liberals are admitting this which is so unusual

So America stops burning fossil fuels and China, India and Russia overtake America economically. Oh, and the climate keeps changing because, guess what, that's what the Earth does, has been for countless centuries. Sounds great!

If America stopped burning fossil fuels and the others dont then America will lead the way with new technology and manufacturing while the others stagnate and end up playing catch up to an America once again in the lead. Economically it will give the US the edge with renewable energy, so no spending money to find oils and gas then dig it up and transport it for processing it and then transport it to the user. Technologically the US would have the edge through an economy that is already ahead of all the rest with new technology infrastructure supporting the renewable energy production and storage and usage.

The climate benefits from the American lead, and as other nations realise the benefits they to stop using fossil fuels and climate change is reduced to a point it can be successfully tackled.

No, but sadly....I think liberals do.

How clever.

Poor Americans, have so many smart young energetic people and have to choose between two old idiots. That is a real hoax.

The dels master plan was to make mayors and governors more powerful than the president, and they succeeded? That’s quite impressive of the dems.

Yeah ..sure.

Quest for power over every Citizen ...legal and illegal is every Dem's never ending dream...like Pelosi.

Let Dem Cities and States burn, baby....let it burn.

Liberals want an end to fossil fuel, duly noted and I wouldn’t quibble with it, but this notion that we will dump gas in 2-4 years and all the cars in the nation will use carrot juice as a fuel source or veggies to replace plastics and colors etc. is just pure lunacy. Their über-liberal draconian laws are the ultimate catalyst for these fires, not including the arsonists that make up the other half of this problem.

A devastating, accurate summation and label. This will stick on Trump.

Nah, this ridiculous inaccurate summation will be just like Impeachment Lite.

Let Dem Cities and States burn, baby....let it burn.

An anti America statement if ever there was one. Someone who hates the US of A.

America is made up of Republican, Democrats and everyone else who does not want to be labeled.

If you want part of the country destroyed your no American.

Trump called climate change a hoax concocted by the Chinese.

Trump, in an interview with 60 Minutes:

“I’m not denying climate change. “I don’t think it’s a hoax. I think there’s probably a difference. But I don’t know that it’s manmade. I will say this: I don’t want to give trillions and trillions of dollars. I don’t want to lose millions and millions of jobs.”

Meanwhile Joe Biden thinks he's running for re-election:

"This is just the beginning if we get re-elected."

Joe Biden, during his recitation from the teleprompter in front of a field in Delaware on climate change

Here's some insight from Forest Ranger Trump today:

"When trees fall down, after short period of time, about 18 months, they become very dry, really like a matchstick, and they get up and there's no more water pouring through, and they become, uh, very, very, they just explode. They could explode. And the leaves, when you have years of leaves, dried leaves on the ground, it just sets it up, it's really fuel for a fire, so they have to do something about it. They also have to do cuts, I mean, people don't like to do cuts but they have to do cuts in between, so if you do have a fire and it gets away, you'll have a 50 yard cut in between so it won't be able to catch to the other side. They don't do that."

Here's some insight from Forest Ranger Trump today:

Here's some insight from Sharp as a Tack Biden:

Biden, during an interview with CBS News correspondent Errol Barnett, who questioned the former VP about whether he has taken a cognitive test:

"No, I haven't taken a test. Why the hell would I take a test? Come on, man. That's like saying you, before you got on this program, you take a test whether you're taking cocaine or not. What do you think? Huh? Are you a junkie?" 

Biden wants to lock us all down for at least 3 months. I'm pretty sure the lockdowns have negatively affected more people than coronavirus ever did.

Looking at the map of the west coast wildfires, the California governor needs to explain how global warming/climate change knows when to stop at the Canadian border.

the actual election issue isnt wildfires. Its what are the actual Biden policies?

he has flip flopped on fracking, mask mandates, coronavirus lockdowns, policing, gun confiscation and more.

People keep saying "thats not what he said", then what is he saying? He wont take any questions or clarify anything just totally changes the position from what it was before.

Uh, they have more rain?

the actual election issue isnt wildfires. Its what are the actual Biden policies?

This is half-true. The election is essentially a referendum on Trump and Trumpism. But Biden's lack of policies or even identity beyond "not Trump" is a real weakness of his campaign. Bernie would be 20 points clear by now.

Bernie would be 20 points clear by now.

In NY, California, I think so.

Kamala Harris lets the truth slip: "a Harris Administration together with Joe Biden"

Looking at the map of the west coast wildfires, the California governor needs to explain how global warming/climate change knows when to stop at the Canadian border.

British Columbia has been hit hard by forest fires in recent years too - 2017 and 2018 were the worst years for forest fires on record there. This year they've been lucky mainly because they got more rain in the summer than fell further south. That's it.

Australia was hard it by wildfires this past season, too. Climate change doesn't start fires, it has heightened the severity from higher temps, earlier snow melts and wildfire season extending months longer than in the past.

RIght now, it's a race between global dumbing and global warming, but global dumbing seems to be winning.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but emissions has to have go down the tubes due to the pandemic, and perhaps in the short run, ain't going down anymore and if it needs to we are just bleeped. We just have no hope of accomplishing that.