Former Trump 2016 campaign chairman Paul Manafort leaves U.S. Federal Court after being arraigned on twelve federal charges in the investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election in Washington, on Monday. Photo: REUTERS
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Two ex-Trump aides charged in Russia probe, 3rd pleads guilty

174 Comments
By Sarah N Lynch and Karen Freifeld

Federal investigators probing Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election charged President Donald Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort and another aide, Rick Gates, with money laundering on Monday.

A third former Trump adviser, George Papadopoulos, pleaded guilty in early October to lying to the FBI, it was announced on Monday.

It was a sharp escalation of U.S. Justice Department Special Counsel Robert Mueller's five-month-old investigation into alleged Russian efforts to tilt the election in Trump's favor and into potential collusion by Trump aides.

Manafort, 68, a longtime Republican operative, and Gates were arraigned at a federal courthouse in Washington.

Both men pleaded not guilty to the charges in a 12-count indictment, ranging from money laundering to acting as unregistered agents of Ukraine's former pro-Russian government.

The judge ordered house arrest for both men, and set a $10 million unsecured bond for Manafort and a $5 million unsecured bond for Gates. With unsecured bonds, they are released without having to pay but will owe money if they fail to appear in court. There will be another hearing on Thursday.

The developments in the Mueller probe weighed on the U.S. dollar, which slipped 0.5% against a basket of currencies.

Mueller's investigation and others by congressional committees into alleged Russian efforts to influence the election have cast a shadow over Trump's first nine months in office.

U.S. intelligence agencies say Russia interfered in the election by hacking and releasing embarrassing emails and disseminating propaganda via social media to discredit Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Russia denies the allegations and Trump denies any collusion.

Neither Trump nor his campaign was mentioned in the indictment against Manafort and Gates. The charges, some going back more than a decade, center on Manafort's work for Ukraine.

The indictment includes accusations of conspiracy against the United States, failure to report foreign bank accounts to the U.S. government and conspiracy to launder money, a count that carries a 20-year maximum prison sentence.

A White House spokeswoman said the indictment had nothing to do with Trump or his campaign and showed no evidence of collusion between the campaign and Russia.

"We've been saying from Day One there's no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, and nothing in the indictment today changes that at all," spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told a news briefing.

Manafort's attorney, Kevin Downing said in a statement that there was no evidence the Trump campaign colluded with the Russian government. Downing said Manafort's work for the Ukrainians ended in 2014, two years before he joined the Trump campaign.

Downing accused Mueller of using a "novel" legal theory to prosecute Manafort under a law requiring lobbyists to register with the Department of Justice when they are doing work for a foreign government.

GUILTY PLEA

In a development directly related to Trump's 2016 election campaign, it emerged on Monday that Papadopoulos, a former campaign adviser, pleaded guilty earlier this month to making false statements to Federal Bureau of Investigation agents.

Mueller's office said Papadopoulos lied to FBI agents about the timing of contact between him and a professor in London who claimed to have information that would hurt Clinton.

Papadopoulos, a little-known former foreign policy adviser in the campaign, made a plea bargain that stated he had since"met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions," according to a court document.

Sanders, the White House spokeswoman, said Papadopoulos' role in the campaign was "extremely limited" and that he was a volunteer.

"He asked to do things (and) he was basically pushed back or not responded to in any way," she said.

In a May 4 email quoted in the Papadopoulos indictment, a Trump campaign employee forwarded a message from Papadopoulos proposing a meeting between Trump and the Russian government to another campaign official.

The employee included a note, according to the indictment, that read: "Let's discuss. We need someone to communicate that DT is not doing these trips. It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal."

A source in Washington, who did not want to be identified and who has seen the email, said the sender was Manafort and the recipient was Gates.

Manafort ran the Trump campaign from June to August of 2016 before resigning amid reports he might have received millions of dollars in illegal payments from a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine.

Trump reiterated his frustration on Monday with the Mueller probe, which he has called "a witch hunt."

"Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????," Trump wrote on Twitter, referring to Clinton.

Mueller has been investigating Manafort’s financial and real estate dealings and his prior work for a political group, the Party of Regions, which backed former pro-Kremlin Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich.

Both Manafort and Gates generated tens of millions of dollars of income from Ukraine work and laundered money through scores of U.S. and foreign entities to hide payments from American authorities, the indictment said.

They concealed from the United States their work and revenue as agents of Ukrainian political parties and used their wealth to lead a "lavish lifestyle" without paying taxes on the income, it said.

The indictment said Manafort owned properties in Manhattan, Brooklyn, the Hamptons, Arlington, Virginia, and elsewhere.

Prosecutors said Manafort spent almost $1 million on eight rugs in two years and more than $1.3 million on clothes from shops in Beverly Hills, California, and New York City. They also said he had been making payments on four Range Rovers and a Mercedes-Benz.

Gates was a longtime business partner of Manafort and has ties to Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs. He also served as deputy to Manafort during his brief tenure as Trump's campaign chairman.

© Thomson Reuters 2017.

©2017 GPlusMedia Inc.

174 Comments
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There sure were a lot of people connected to the Trump campaign who were eager to meet with Russians who claimed to have dirt on Hillary Clinton, weren’t there?  I guess Conspiracy Against the United States is a topping on a Nothing Burger. Which, I hear, goes great with a side of Leavenworth.

Anyway, to the point: where are all the chants for LOCK HIM UP!!!!!

Oh, right.

Get ready for the latest Republican version of when-the-president-does-it,-that-means-it-is-not-illegal.

No honor. No shame.

27 ( +29 / -2 )

Well, once the dominoes start falling on these relative little guys, I wonder how fast they keep going up the line.

These guys are going to talk, hence the FBI going after them first, as they will bring the goods on those higher up on the food chain!

21 ( +22 / -1 )

"Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign. But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????," Trump wrote on Twitter, referring to Clinton.

Dude is taking a chapter from a Japanese. Obfuscate and deflect the conversation. Hey "I'm guilty as sin" kind of attitude, but "They did it first" so he thinks he deserves a pass?

At least, and as much as I do not like either Hillary or Trump, Hillary didn't respond like a petulant senior citizen with a babies mentality!

12 ( +15 / -3 )

"Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign

Sorry, but the statute of limitation for Manafort's alleged crime is seven years. Sad!

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Another thing, the money laundering charge, no matter when it happened, is going to be used as leverage against him, big time, in exchange for the truth about his and Trumps possible involvement with Russians during the election campaign.

If he doesnt talk, he's going to jail for a long time, if he talks? Who knows? The FBI is very tenacious when it comes to investigating and getting their "man" when they want to!

16 ( +17 / -1 )

they should charge the DNC for pushing Bernie out of the race, that is why Trump got elected

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

Black SabbathToday  06:45 am JST

"Sorry, but this is years ago, before Paul Manafort was part of the Trump campaign

Sorry, but the statute of limitation for Manafort's alleged crime is seven years. Sad!

Actually... "six years from commission or discovery, whichever is later."

10 ( +10 / -0 )

The flipping and snitching has already begun.

A lot of information previously unknown was just made known. Trump’s public call to release Clinton emails was surely sourced from the guy who plead guilty to lying to the FBI about meetings with Russia during the campaign to discuss Russia having Clinton emails. Ask the right wing, there is nothing there. A nothing burger, yet the campaign didn’t rebuff these entreaties, instead they moved to have low level people deal with them in order to put some distance between collusion charges and Trump.

Guess what, these low level buffers are the next snitches. Rinse and repeat.

Mueller also has Manafort and Gates as snitches at the top of the Trump campaign.

Snitch at the bottom testifying how the collusion started and soon to be snitches at the top showing collusion there.

Yea, no connections whatsoever, and only lies coming from the WH instead of statements condemning the alleged crimes.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Both Manafort and Gates generated tens of millions of dollars of income from Ukraine work and laundered money through scores of U.S. and foreign entities to hide payments from U.S. authorities, the indictment said

The indictment has nothing to do with Russia, it’s related to pre-Trump dealings in the Ukraine.

The Russia thing is a dud, they can’t find anything.

-26 ( +4 / -30 )

@Burning Bush - you are correct that this was pre-Trump, however there may be more here so I think things are going to start to get interesting.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

RE: Statute of limitations

The statute of limitations for most federal crimes is five years. 140 The five-year limitation applies to the general conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. 371

-- https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/R41223.html#_Toc441044143

So, right.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

The Russia thing is a dud, they can’t find anything.

How do you know that?

15 ( +16 / -1 )

Oh, right.

You don't

17 ( +18 / -1 )

Trump promised his base to "drain the swamp". This is something I would agree with if he really did it. However, it is obvious he is part of the swamp. This is based on those with whom he has had working for him as well as his bringing his daughter and son in law into the WH. This coupled with the recent allegations against the Clinton campaign reinforce my opinion that the whole thing (DC) is one big swamp.

What a strange thing it would be if we get both the Trump and Clinton campaigns in collusion with the Russians. This seems like something out of a movie or a book but unfortunately this is all real life.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

A lot of information previously unknown was just made known.

And so far, nothing to do with Trump or any so called Russian connection.

Trump’s public call to release Clinton emails was surely sourced from the guy who plead guilty to lying to the FBI about meetings with Russia during the campaign to discuss Russia having Clinton emails.

Interesting, and?

Ask the right wing, there is nothing there. A nothing burger, yet the campaign didn’t rebuff these entreaties, instead they moved to have low level people deal with them in order to put some distance between collusion charges and Trump. 

Doesn't mean anything in regards to the charges that they got Manafort with.

Guess what, these low level buffers are the next snitches. Rinse and repeat. 

Funny, doesn't mean that they'll snitch if there's nothing to snitch NO ONE can say that definitively.

Mueller also has Manafort and Gates as snitches at the top of the Trump campaign. 

Snitch at the bottom testifying how the collusion started and soon to be snitches at the top showing collusion there. 

You keep repeating yourself. LOL

Yea, no connections whatsoever, and only lies coming from the WH instead of statements condemning the alleged crimes.

Interesting, Tony Podesta, the lobbyist and brother to former Hillary campaign advisor John Podesta resigned from his company, interesting. Another man that Mueller has in his crosshairs who was doing business with, here it comes, Paul Manafort, gee, define "ironic."

Uh-oh....stay tuned!

-28 ( +1 / -29 )

Comedy gold.

Back in summer the NY Times ran an interesting dialogue between spy novelist John Le Carre and non-fiction spy writer Ben Macintyre. Both had little doubt that Putin and the Russians had kompromat on Trump and that he was hobbled as a result. Well worth reading -

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/books/review/john-le-carre-ben-macintyre-british-spy-thrillers.html

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Sabbath, welcome back. Haven't seen strangerland in ages. I digress.

May the chips fall where they may. However, the alternative, the gay hating bible thumper. Well if you think the trans ban was bad, hold on to your breeches.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I know the Russia thing is a dud because the investigation can’t find anything concrete.

Keep waiting for the “bombshell”, you’ll wait as long as the people who hoped that Birth Certificate issue would send Obama packing

-18 ( +3 / -21 )

So it begins.  

Number of criminal indictments and/or charges during the Obama administration = ZERO. 

Trump era indictments nine months into his presidency = TWO.  

This is just the beginning. It is going to get infinitely worse for Trump.  

Never should have made this sick joke president.

It's amazing how much the "fake news" gets right, isn't it, Orange Donald?

19 ( +21 / -2 )

Number of criminal indictments and/or charges during the Obama administration = ZERO. 

Not yet, but it's ironic that Tony Podesta the lobbyist who is accused of dealing with Manafort would resign from his firm the day Manfort is indicted. Official.

Trump era indictments nine months into his presidency = TWO. 

 

Official that the Clintons paid $6millon for that Dossier and that now the Uranium One Russian sale deal is now in the crosshairs of Mueller.

This is just the beginning. It is going to get infinitely worse for Trump.  

Or Hillary.

Never should have made this sick joke president.

Thank God, we dodged that Hillary bullet.

It's amazing how much the "fake news" gets right, isn't it, Orange Donald?

And the left media are salivating over nothing once again. CNN and msnbc keep trying. I feel bad for Maddow.

-22 ( +2 / -24 )

The information warfare expert Molly Mc Kew also fingered Bannon, Gorka and Kellyanne Conway as receiving money from Russia and being a threat to national security.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Mueller has been investigating Manafort’s financial and real estate dealings and his prior work for a political group, the Party of Regions, which backed former pro-Kremlin Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich.

One of the easiest and most effective ways to launder money is by buying and selling real estate. You buy a property at an inflated price in a private deal, sell it at more inflated price in another private deal (all involving LLCs and far more exotic entities, some of them offshore, with the true owners' names thoroughly camouflaged), and keep it churning until it's nearly impossible to tell where the money came from or where it went.

Say, speaking of real estate. . .

I'm certainly not making any accusations, but if someone was participating in money laundering by churning real estate -- someone with lots of experience in the real estate biz -- any investigator would surely want to see their tax returns, wouldn't they?

And if you were a real estate developer with nothing to hide, wouldn't you want to prove that you are above suspicion by releasing all your income tax returns?

Unless, of course, you do have something to hide. . .

19 ( +20 / -1 )

This could be the beginning of the end. Look at these coward traitors, they will squeal the first chance they get, and will gladly finger the more juicy targets for a deal. Otherwise they will have quite the unpleasant time in jail.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Manafort put himself in a position where he could be blackmailed, something the FBI constantly watches out for. People who can be blackmailed can turn into foreign agents pretty quickly. The payments were coming from a source that works with the Russians, meaning they could easily find out. And this guy was the campaign manager for Donald Trump, the perfect target for flipping.

"We've been saying from Day One there's no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, and nothing in the indictment today changes that at all," spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told a news briefing.

And we've been correcting you and your base by reminding them that the investigation is about Russian meddling in the election, and if any cooperation was done between Trump's team and Russia. Trump was never the sole focus and saying there's nothing against him is not justification for ending the case. As we found out today.

bass: Official that the Clintons paid $6millon for that Dossier and that now the Uranium One Russian sale deal is now in the crosshairs of Mueller.

I used to save this for blacklabel, but it will come in handy for you as well. From Comey's testimony:

“If this committee comes to you with information about the Clinton campaign, will you add that to your investigation?” Mr. Nunes asked Mr. Comey. Mr. Comey said he was not prepared to comment on the particulars of contacts between Russians and any campaigns. But “if people bring us info,” he said, “we will evaluate it.”

Using Sarah Sanders' words from today, there's no evidence of anything between Clinton and Russia, and nothing in the indictment today changes that at all. You can convict her in the right-wing media and message boards all you want, but they don't have the power to put people on trial. Mueller does. And some of Trump's people will be there soon enough.

The next interesting piece will be Flynn. If he gets indicted as well, then the FBI can say Trump asked to end the investigation into someone who was revealed to have broken the law.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Or Hillary.

Can you be more specific? No warrants = just one of many broken promises (actually all his promises have been broken). And this just in kids: Judge Blocks Trump's Ban on Transgender Troops in Military (news source)

Trump is batting a .000 here. At least Obama passed Obamacare. And at least Hillary is smart enough not t get busted. Great accomplishments there vs. Trump's. Trump managed to get his staff busted.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Forgot to add that Trump fired Comey because of this investigation. The one that just indicted three of Trump's associates.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Keep waiting for the “bombshell”, you’ll wait as long as the people who hoped that Birth Certificate issue would send Obama packing.

You forget that you were one of those people?

It's not what you know,it's what you can prove. It'll take time to untangle the truth.
9 ( +9 / -0 )

Trump stood up for Change, a non-Politician running the place. But it seems now that Old School Politics wins again, and both sides seek to get one up upon the other, such is the Polarization of Politics within the US. I imagine this leaves the man in the street wondering what's the point for voting - nothing will ever get done, so it's somewhat meaningless.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

George Papadopoulos was a busy guy. His contacts with various Russian sources were extensive, prolonged, and specifically designed to acquire Russian help for Trump's campaign against Clinton. His boss, no small-fry - Sam Clovis, head of the Trump campaign’s policy team - apparently was aware of and encouraged Papadopoulos' actions.

Anyone who maintains yesterday's revelations does not concern the Trump campaign should keep this in mind.

Papadopoulos was arrested in July but didn't plead guilty until October; in between, he appears to have been cooperating. His plea agreement released by Mueller's office, a rare nugget of Mueller's intentions, clearly indicates where this investigation is heading: That Papadopoulos would not be sentenced until a future date, presumably after the value of his contributions to the prosecution can be tabulated.

This must be giving many around Trump great pause.

16 ( +16 / -0 )

treason:  (the crime of) showing no loyalty to your country, especially by helping its enemies or trying to defeat its government

11 ( +11 / -0 )

the more trump whines on twitter the more guilty he seems. if this truly is a witch hunt, then mueller will find nothing and trump will be vindicated. but that doesn't seem to be the case. i honestly don't think trump himself colluded with russia, but i'm certain people in his sprawling organization did (manafort) or tried to do (trump jr.). and trump knew what they were doing, especially with trump jr. and this is the real reason for trump's rants.

get ready for trump to fire mueller and then all heck will break out.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

LOL. The lefties are so desperate they've lost their reading comprehension skills.

Both men pleaded not guilty to the charges against them in a 12-count indictment, ranging from money laundering to acting as unregistered agents of Ukraine's former pro-Russian government.

Hey folks, this from 2013-14. Before Obama over threw the democratically elected leader of Ukraine. Remember the Kiev coup? Remember Victoria Nuland? How is this in any way connected to the Trump campaign and where is there any information that Russia was interFEARing with it? Pathetic is what this is.

Yes, we all know Ukraine is one screwed up country, I wonder what a probe of all the money we give to Israel would turn up?

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

The lefties are so desperate

The problem with that comment is no one on the left is under arrest over this. Next we are going to hear It's Hillary' fault.

wouldn't you want to prove that you are above suspicion by releasing all your income tax returns?

There is nothing in the tax returns other than embarrassments. Nothing illegal, otherwise we would all know by now.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@Laguna

[Papadopoulous's almost certain cooperation with Mueller since July] must be giving many around Trump great pause.

Yep. Papadopoulous' is a small fish who was arrested in July, but his arrest was kept secret until today.

In the court filing, investigators said it was because they wanted to preserve his value as a “proactive cooperator”—a term of art that means the defendant will engage in some kind of undercover activity.

IOW he was wearing a wire.

Hmm. Which dope did he speak with? Will we be saying "I love it!" or "He went to Jared"?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Nishikat

Don't bother.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

It only encourages them.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Trump tweeted a photo on 3/31/16 of his "national security team." Papaolous is there with the big dogs, second to the left of Sessions. Surprising Trump hasn't deleted this yet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/715725628465680386

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Yesterday I wrote:

katsu78Oct. 30  06:57 pm JST

Do we have a betting pool on this? If so put my money down on, "No matter whether or not an arrest happens tonight, the first right-wing response will be crowing about how Trump not being indicted for the moment is definite proof that he never did anything wrong, while simultaneously grousing about how Hillary not being arrested is somehow proof of her complete and total guilt, with no attempt whatsoever to rationalize that contradiction."

Then today:

bass4funkToday  07:39 am JST

A lot of information previously unknown was just made known.

And so far, nothing to do with Trump or any so called Russian connection.

...

Interesting, Tony Podesta, the lobbyist and brother to former Hillary campaign advisor John Podesta resigned from his company, interesting. Another man that Mueller has in his crosshairs who was doing business with, here it comes, Paul Manafort, gee, define "ironic."

Who needs spice for prescience when you've got the right around to make it easy?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

WOW. The MSM bots are so funny. Hey guys, this is about Ukraine.

Next we are going to hear It's Hillary' fault.

Well she was the Secretary of State until 2013. So you don't think she had any hand in the coup?

The WHOLE idea was to bring the Ukraine closer to the EU. The then elected leader was on board until the EU handed him the bill. Way to expensive. Extortion. That's why Yanukovych refused the EU deal. WIKI conveniently skips over this point. Manafort's charges are about 2012 - 2014 in Ukraine. Nothing to do with the Trump campaign or Russia.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Draining the swamp to expose the basket of deplorables. Hopefully this is just the beginning. I'd love to see them rat on each other. My wish list (for now), DT Junior, Kushner, Michael 'Look him up' Flynn, and the fat guy himself.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

BFD

Papa's email exchange shows that the Trump campaign knowingly solicited Russian illegally obtained Clinton emails, knew and did it months before it was public knowledge.

People are going down for this. And not just the three we know of now.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Papa's email exchange shows that the Trump campaign knowingly solicited Russian illegally obtained Clinton emails, knew and did it months before it was public knowledge.

I think Julian Assange might have something to say about that.

Wait...better to trust your corporate MSM. LOL

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

Katsu

Don't waste your time. Don't waste my time. We all know nothing they say really matters. They won't change their minds. Because they are bad people.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Nothing related to Trump. I will leave it at that for now as the left is so rabid with false hope right now that this will connect to others. they fail to realize what they were promised and what they got Isnt even close.

The IRS could have handled 2 tax evaders without all this drama of the last 12 months.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Wow, the Republicans are SCARED, and the deflection and "It happened long ago..." and, "Oh? Benghazi did too? Well, that's different!" b-b-b-b-b-butwhatabouthillaryobama? are in FULL-swing!

The GOP and co know FULL well that Manafort has secrets, and Manafort is going to spill the beans in exchange for lowered sentences. Conspiracy against the US is going to carry SERIOUS charges, and the man is going to sing like a bird, hence the cowardly and childish cries of Trump: "But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????"

I know two-year-olds who cry in the same way when they are caught doing something wrong and/or want something but can't have it.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

They won't change their minds.

Change our minds? About what? The fact that this has nothing to do with Russia or Trump? Though the headline clearly is trying to make a connection that doesn't exist?

Because they are bad people.

Oh, so we are bad people? Please explain. BTW, I don't think you're a bad person for believing what you want to believe in.

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

Two things to keep on the front burner:

  1. It is a fact that Russia helped Trump get elected, in violation of our laws, our traditions and our democratic process.

Trump's campaign advisor has just been indicted and is under house arrest for, among other things, shady dealings with the Russian going way back.

This alone should give any patriot serious pause. An American candidate and now President hired to manage his campaign a Russia toady. The Russians, fer chrissakes.

Further We know that Russia did this by spreading real fake news. Yes, I just wrote that. Real fake news. I need to qualify fake news. Think. About. That. I need qualify fake news. Think about why I need to qualify that.

Think about how media for profit has failed. Think about how a clown worked that. And think about the millions of willfully stupid and evil Americans who lap it up. Because they are stupid. And evil.

  1. About those people, the dead-enders, let me just point out, once again, the nature of the problem:

They don't care. About anything. Other than power.

They don't care about facts. They don't care about truth. They don't care about honor. They don't care about decency. And they don't care about America.

They don't care that Russia helped Trump get elected, in violation of our laws, traditions and democratic process. In fact, they see it as a feature, not a bug.

Because for them, and let this be crystal clear, POWER is the means and the end. Democracy is a tool to seize and remain in power, only so long as you got the people on your side. When you don't, democracy is a liability.

Its all about power.

And if that is not evil, and cannot named for what it is, then we really are lost.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

They are true patriots and Russia is NOT an enemy state of United States! But I doubt anyone will acknowledges that is a fact!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

One of the easiest and most effective ways to launder money is by buying and selling real estate. You buy a property at an inflated price in a private deal, sell it at more inflated price in another private deal (all involving LLCs and far more exotic entities, some of them offshore, with the true owners' names thoroughly camouflaged), and keep it churning until it's nearly impossible to tell where the money came from or where it went.

Say, speaking of real estate. . . 

Now that Podesta in the mix who knows where this will end.

I'm certainly not making any accusations, but if someone was participating in money laundering by churning real estate -- someone with lots of experience in the real estate biz -- any investigator would surely want to see their tax returns, wouldn't they?

Add to that a person that has a lot of connections as a lobbyist to all types of financial institutions, businesses and even international business dealings, as you said, this could get very interesting, especially when one of the biggest lobbyists resigns from his company on the same day this indictment came? Very interesting. A connection or just pure coincidence?

And if you were a real estate developer with nothing to hide, wouldn't you want to prove that you are above suspicion by releasing all your income tax returns?

The same could be said about the former SOS. Whey will her people not turn over the documents about the sale of obtaining the documents that cost them $6 million? That ain’t no chump change?

Unless, of course, you do have something to hide. .

Yes, let’s apply that to both sides. Let’s be fair.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Keep waiting for the “bombshell”, you’ll wait as long as the people who hoped that Birth Certificate issue would send Obama packing

Well, conspiracies are difficult to crack.

Then there is the prisoner's dilemma, which Manafort and Grant find themselves in. Their attorneys will rightly suggest turning states evidence.

The IRS could have handled 2 tax evaders without all this drama of the last 12 months.

The IRS can and does handle tax evasion. Their investigators even carry guns, beancounters with guns.

But you are willfully missing the point. Mueller is the one who wanted the indictment on Manafort and Grant because it furthers his larger missive.

BTW, I don't think you're a bad person for believing what you want to believe in.

I also don't think a person is a bad person if they don't believe in the same things. I do get annoyed with them if they affect my life.

I just have trouble with people who knowingly push lies, then I think they are bad people.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

It is a fact that Russia helped Trump get elected, in violation of our laws, our traditions and our democratic process.

You need to prove that. I think Hitler had a few facts that he would spout off, but weren't really facts,

Think about how media for profit has failed. Think about how a clown worked that. And think about the millions of willfully stupid and evil Americans who lap it up. Because they are stupid. And evil.

WOW! Now you're cracking me up.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

Because it justifies the existence of his special counsel office and all the money they spent already. That’s why the IRS or FBI didn’t just announce these. Did that guy lie to Mueller counsel? Nope to the FBI so they could easily announce that.

But it doesn’t meet his mission of election related collusion personally by Trump. That’s why libs been screaming at the sky, not to arrest Manafort and some dudes but to link something to Trump. That hasn’t been done and even CNN top headline says this is the “closest connection” between Trump and Russia.

If this is all we are getting it’s not much compared to what was “promised”.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

The right has been going on for months about how the investigation has nothing on anyone Trump related. Now we have one of Trump's inner circle already pleading guilty, and two more indicted, and the right is changing their stance to 'the investigation has nothing on Trump'.

Well knowing how these investigations work, how they start with the little guys, get them to flip with pressure, and use them to take down the bigger fish, this revelation must be making the Trump team worry.

Well, I would imagine they'd be worrying if they are intelligent enough to see what's coming. That may not be the case.

Trump promised his base to "drain the swamp". This is something I would agree with if he really did it.

I think it's something we can all get behind.

Well, all of us except Trump apparently.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

They are true patriots and Russia is NOT an enemy state of United States!

Now we see the next tactic of the right - try to redefine Russia as a friend! It can't be collusion if you're just telling a friend, right?

If this is all we are getting...

Oh it's not. We are definitely getting more.

And we've already got more than you said there would ever be.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

When was this Russia helped Trump get elected “fact” proven? Did I miss Trump’s name on Manafort’s indictment for his personal business dealings before he even joined the campaign?

You guys are inferring too much from what we were given to this point.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

I think it's something we can all get behind.

Eh...you're just rehashing old crap. Point is, this is all about Ukraine back in 2013, and the corruption that that state is in. Hillary has more connections as the then Secretary of State to this Ukraine corruption probe than Trump. Time to cry.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

MSM headlines haven’t been screaming for a year “impeach Trump because Paul Manafort had some shady money transfers in 2012-2014!” I think it said something about collusion with Russia where it could be proven that (a) he knew about and encouraged it and (b) this collusion helped him to illegitimately win.

Nothing about any of that presented so on with this speculation of what it means or what it could “lead to”. Wake me up when you have something.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

When was this Russia helped Trump get elected “fact” proven?

Well the FBI, CIA, and Homeland Security have all come out and said they believe it based on their investigations. Trump and his people are the only ones in Washington who have a different opinion, and for reasons they've never said other than a fuzzy, non-specific, "I'm not convinced." That's their right, but obviously people are going to put weight on what the professional investigators have said.

Do you have a problem with that?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

You guys aren’t concerned that Tony Podesta spent last weekend with Hillary and her cronies? Considering that this all seems to be focusing on Ukraine, not Russia, that might be a problem for him. Might “lead to” something when he is “flipped”.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Chicken come home to roost.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

And so far, nothing to do with Trump or any so called Russian connection. your just speculating again, ive got some speculation, i wonder if those being investigated are willing to snitch about the Russian probe to get a more lenient sentence or they may follow some honorable criminal code and not say a word even if it means they go to prison for a much longer period. lol yeah right.

If Trump is innocent then he has nothing to fear, if he isnt then I think hell find it hard to keep that orange tan applied over all that sweat.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I “believe” something and I can “prove it” with evidence and data is far far away. So yeah I would have a problem with making anything other than an assumption from what these organizations said.

plus based on what we have seen and heard from other investigations even back to JFK, not like they are 100% credible anyway.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Wake me up when you have something. no need to wake you up , you wouldn't believe it anyways. thats the thing with criminals they still think theyre innocent even when all the evidence proves that theyre guilty. Its always somebody elses faulty, he made me do it, I was mentally insane at the time etc etc

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Trump's swamp is so full that Aquaman would drown...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

no need to wake you up , you wouldn't believe it anyways. thats the thing with criminals they still think theyre innocent even when all the evidence proves that theyre guilty. Its always somebody elses faulty, he made me do it, I was mentally insane at the time etc etc

Oh My Gawd! If you aren't talking about Hillary, then who could it be?

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The right has been going on for months about how the investigation has nothing on anyone Trump related.

It hasn’t, read the charges on Manafort, nothing mentions anything about Trump or collusion. Simmer down folks.

Now we have one of Trump's inner circle already pleading guilty, and two more indicted, and the right is changing their stance to 'the investigation has nothing on Trump'.

I doubt it, but I am taken back....well, not entirely that now Tony Podesta is in Mueller’s crosshairs and it seems like there could be a possible connection between Manafort and the Podesta brothers. One a Democratic campaign tsar and the other a weasely lobbyists and a powerful one at that. He resigns today the same time Manafort gets indicted and then ironically Tony Podesta lawyer threatens Tucker Carlson if he mentions or discusses anything about Tony Podesta on the air and threatened to sue the pants off him. I laughed so hard, he just had that whatever and kept on going, if Podesta’s lawyers are afraid to Here the facts brought out of his client, then he shouldn’t watch TV.

Well knowing how these investigations work, how they start with the little guys, get them to flip with pressure, and use them to take down the bigger fish, this revelation must be making the Trump team worry.

Naw, there is no way of knowing if Manafort knows anything, Mueller in his desperation is HOPING that Manafort knows something, but there’s no guarantee that he does. But if there’s anyone I trust on this, I only listen to the people that are experts and laugh off the gossip guesses. Neapolitano, Dershowitz and Turley. Listening to them, they all said, standard procedure, Trump doesn’t need to worry. The ONLY thing the president needs to do as well as congress, get Mueller to be equally fair and to investigate how The Clinton’s and why they spent $6million to get dirt on Trump when thst info is out there for free. A fish always rots from the head down first.

Well, I would imagine they'd be worrying if they are intelligent enough to see what's coming. That may not be the case.

As well as the Democrats, that boomerang will smack ‘em back, look out.

Podesta...ROFL good lord....

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

You guys aren’t concerned that Tony Podesta

Nope. If Podesta did anything wrong, then throw him in jail like the rest. I have zero desire to make outlandish conspiracy statements due to some personal desire to protect the man.

Same with Hillary Clinton.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Yippee! This means that the 2016 election will have to be declared null and void, and a new election will be called. So before that happens we must get rid of the out-of-date electoral college. That will seal the Republicans' coffin for good.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Interesting, Tony Podesta, the lobbyist and brother to former Hillary campaign advisor John Podesta resigned from his company, interesting.

And yet only two people (guess who) find it interesting enough to say much about it. I don't care if any of Clinton's people go down for something as well, even Hillary Clinton herself. It doesn't make Trump or his people any more or less guilty.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Will peel Trump, one layer of orange skin at a time.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

@wtfjapan Collusion is not a crime in relation to elections in the USA.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

This whole thing is going to blow up in the Democrats faces.

get ready for Uranium One

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

You guys aren’t concerned that Tony Podesta spent last weekend with Hillary and her cronies?

Hillary is an irrelevant old lady who literally holds no power whatsoever in the American government, and is an irrelevance. All she is now is a tool for the right to try to redirect attention from Dear Leader's indiscretions by yelling 'but Hillary' anytime anyone points them out.

I don't care if any of Clinton's people go down for something as well, even Hillary Clinton herself. It doesn't make Trump or his people any more or less guilty.

Exactly. Whether or not Hillary and co did anything wrong is something to be dealt with after the more immediate problem of the current administration looking to have achieved that position through collusion with an enemy. If you have a child who is a murderer and is holding a knife, gun, and rocket launcher, then you deal with that kid before the other kid who is a murderer but is locked in their room with no weapons at hand.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

This whole thing is going to blow up in the Democrats faces.

Three Trump aids either guilty or charged, and the right is trying to spin this that someone this will blow up in the faces of the Democrats.

Quite the spin.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

If you have a child who is a murderer and is holding a knife, gun, and rocket launcher, then you deal with that kid before the other kid who is a murderer but is locked in their room with no weapons at hand.

oh dear, dear, god...

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

A "thumbs down" for stating a fact. I will back my statement up:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/12/what-is-collusion-215366

Now, compare the definitions in this story, to the Fusion GPS fiasco, and you may notice a few things do jump out. In order for this to happen, one must not be so one tracked as to deny the obvious.

Do do I personally believe that "collusion" with a foreign government to impact the results of an election should be illegal, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it is not.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

When was any collusion proven or even written in these indictments again?

I’m sure Mueller’s 22 attorneys plus staff have plenty of time to include Hillary and her people in this, no need to wait.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

oh dear, dear, god...

Heh, well now we know at least one poster here would deal with the irrelevant child who has no power, over the actual threat.

Team politics FTW!

6 ( +7 / -1 )

I also like how quick Hillary went from the rightful president!!! #resistance!!! to irrelevant, crazed private citizen. Conveniently timed once collusioonand financial evidence against her campaign, not Trump, was discovered.

Lucky for her it seems collusion is not a real crime. But don’t worry she has many others that her and her people qualify for.

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

Lucky for her it seems collusion is not a real crime. But don’t worry she has many others that her and her people qualify for.

Back atchu. Odd how Mueller is labeled a political hack and should be fired, until you hear word from some wacky right wing site alleging he is closing in on Hillary and suddenly he isn't a political hack anymore. hmmm..... Let's just let this investigation play out, shall we? ;)

4 ( +4 / -0 )

I also like how quick Hillary went from the rightful president!!! #resistance!!! to irrelevant, crazed private citizen.

She's never been the rightful president. Just the person the people wanted to be president. But the American system does not choose the president based on the will of the people.

Anyways, she lost. She's not president, and likely never will be. If she's done some bad stuff, then charge her and penalize her, as a message to others.

But none of that is here nor there in regards to the indiscretions of the current president's team. So let's quit trying to distract from his screw ups by pointing out those screw ups of hers that you guys are imagining have happened. They are entirely separate issues, and neither one excuses the other.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I also like how quick Hillary went from

No one cares about Hillary except Trump fans who refuse to deal with Trump's issues.

You have two options. Accept that your garbage about Hillary amounts to nothing in the eyes of the law, or give us a conspiracy theory. Which is it.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Wow, the Republicans are SCARED, and the deflection and "It happened long ago..." and, "Oh? Benghazi did too? Well, that's different!" b-b-b-b-b-butwhatabouthillaryobama? are in FULL-swing! 

Beg your pardon? Every Republican involved in this investigation is cooperating and every Democrat has convenient amnesia or they’re just purely dumb (I think the latter, but moving on...) why are they hiding under their desks, why are they threatening to file lawsuits or weave and dodge. Even Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer has a difficult time getting answers. Uh-oh, now what?

The GOP and co know FULL well that Manafort has secrets, and Manafort is going to spill the beans in exchange for lowered sentences.

How would you know? Do you know something Mueller or the Democrats don’t know? Why is it that Liberals have heightened mutant abilities and can see what others can see, even before it’s ever announced?

Conspiracy against the US is going to carry SERIOUS charges, and the man is going to sing like a bird, hence the cowardly and childish cries of Trump: "But why aren't Crooked Hillary & the Dems the focus?????"

But you do know the charges he faces has nothing to with the campaign, these charges were going back a few years back, so he might be singing about money laundering, but about Trump.....who knows, he might not know something, hate to be the reaper of bad news, but it is possible that the man may not know anything and if he doesn’t, you guys will once again have egg on your face.

I know two-year-olds who cry in the same way when they are caught doing something wrong and/or want something but can't have it.

You think Hillary carries a box of Kleenex or does she use a handkerchief? She strikes me more like a tissue woman.

Hillary is an irrelevant old lady who literally holds no power whatsoever in the American government, and is an irrelevance.

That is until you turn her upside down and shake her.

All she is now is a tool for the right to try to redirect attention from Dear Leader's indiscretions by yelling 'but Hillary' anytime anyone points them out.

Yeah, sure. Let’s see why she paid a ridiculous $6 million for this dossier on Trump and why did Bill get from the Russians $500,000 in speaking fees and all this happening around the time this Uranium One deal was made. A little too ironic.

Exactly. Whether or not Hillary and co did anything wrong is something to be dealt with after

Why? Why not now? Why not be fair because this whole thing stinks and have both sides investigated, thst would appease the haters and lovers on both sides, if not, don’t say, we believe in equal justice, just say, we only believe in Democratic justice, at least I could respect and give props to honesty.

the more immediate problem of the current administration looking to have achieved that position through collusion with an enemy.

10 months and still nothing and with 22 vampiric lawyers, good luck, but the Podesta thing is morphing into something bigger, the collusion between the Democrats and Russia? Now I’m beginning to understand why even the liberal networks can’t get straight answers out of these people.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Bass, you're not required to agree with Mueller. The rule of law will decide if Manafort goes to jail or not, not internet message board Trump fans. And you have every right to go after Podesta's brother as a coping skill, I won't get in your way. If he's found guilty of anything, so be it. I wish you luck. Same with Clnton. Hold on to the slimmest of hopes if it gets you through the day.

The investigation into Russia's meddling is ongoing. We will see what else develops. So far three Trump associates have gone down. Maybe more will join them.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

When are they ever going to charge Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for their role in selling 20% of America's uranium to Russia, among other crimes?

You mean their role of not objecting to a sale that was approved by a nine-person committee who say they would still approve of the deal today?

It's an old story that was brought up by the right years ago that didn't lead anywhere. If you want to look into it more fine, by why prioritize it over the story where the central figure is the current sitting president?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Looking at some of the trump fanboy comments I'd swear you're watching MTP,This Week and faux news where the surrogates all go on and spout their lies in defense of trump.Yous speaking the same B.S. too.... for free.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

i think you guys are too focused on manafort and gates' alleged crimes. the real story today is about papadopoulos. he has admitted to lying to the fbi about attempts to colluding with russia.

https://lawfareblog.com/george-papadopoulos-stipulation-and-plea-agreement

and more importantly, he has been a snitch for mueller for the past several months.  on the last page of his stipulation, he states, "The preceding statement is a summary, made for the purpose of providing the Court with a factual basis for my guilty plea to the charge against me. It does not include all of the facts known to me regarding this offense." This last sentence is the kicker. mueller is hinting that he has the goods on quite a few people in trump's orbit with the help of papadopoulos. so there will be more indictments to come.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I think Trump fanboys would be better served sending their comments directly to the FBI instead of internet message boards. They obviously feel they have some info the FBI isn't taking into account.

Either that or there is a conspiracy going on.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@superlib or wait for the 3rd option. That the honorable, honest seeker of truth Mueller will get around to dealing with the other side too before he is done. i have every confidence he will.

If he doesn’t another special counsel will. Then it will be your side’s turn to change your story. By then Podesta’s crimes have nothing to do with Hillary after screaming that Manafort’s are sufficient to impeach Trump.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

When are they ever going to charge Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for their role in selling 20% of America's uranium to Russia, among other crimes?

"You mean their role of not objecting to a sale that was approved by a nine-person committee who say they would still approve of the deal today?"

Those other nine people ought to be charged as well. Bad deal, that was.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Those other nine people ought to be charged as well. Bad deal, that was.

Heh, the classic conspiracy theorist. It must be everybody - that would make more sense than the theorist just being wrong in the first place.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Oh Donny Donny. Watergate was supposed to be a warning of what can happen, not a guide of what to do.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Here's an interesting analysis:

I Was Right Again: Paul Manafort is Indicted by Mueller Probe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Vxu_5w7Ik

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

And yet only two people (guess who) find it interesting enough to say much about it. I don't care if any of Clinton's people go down for something as well, even Hillary Clinton herself. It doesn't make Trump or his people any more or less guilty.

If indeed they are guilty.

I think Trump fanboys would be better served sending their comments directly to the FBI instead of internet message boards. They obviously feel they have some info the FBI isn't taking into account.

Funny and I was thinking the Trump haters had a deep ESP insight into what the FBI overall goals are. As this thing is slowly turning like a chicken on a grill on the Democrats, the anger is seething. Why all the deflections? Why they even run away from other liberal TV pundits?

Either that or there is a conspiracy going on.

Hmmmm....

Sure, if there are enough resources to deal with both, then deal with both. But trying to deflect away from the problems of Trump by screaming 'but Hillary...' does not excuse Trump,

No one is really saying that, but there should be some equal fairness, if we want the truth and both sides want the truth and in order to get the truth, there needs to be full transparency and a deep look at Clinton and her ties to Russia and the money to her foundation, the payment to do opposition research and no one knows who authorized it? Are you *** kidding me? How can the left NOT know where or who paid for the dossier, you have to be the dumbest person on the entire planet to believe that. They claim they are innocent, but they don't want to be questioned about it. I'm just floored!

and does not change the fact that the priority should be exposing and dealing with corruption in the current administration,

Again, let's investigate both, I'll meet you right in the middle, If you are going to have more than 18 Democratic voters and and 5 that don't vote for either party and 0 for the Republican party and decide to hold the hearings in DC (a Liberal stronghold) we all know what this is and if you want to get to the bottom of this, we need to investigate both and I don't want to see the Dems duck and hide the cameras.

over any potential issues in the person who his lost and literally has zero power whatsoever in the American governmental system.

Yeah, sure. LOL

You mean their role of not objecting to a sale that was approved by a nine-person committee who say they would still approve of the deal today? 

So why was it kept in secret?

It's an old story that was brought up by the right years ago that didn't lead anywhere.

Until now.

If you want to look into it more fine, by why prioritize it over the story where the central figure is the current sitting president?

Or dig deeper and find out why millions were spent to fund this dossier and IF Hillary and everyone in the committee are so confident, why then don't give open interviews to the media and take questions, whether you like the president or not, at least he gives long interviews and answers questions, but Hillary is known for her Cooperfield acts.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Those other nine people ought to be charged as well. Bad deal, that was.

If bad deals were crimes, Trump would've been jailed years ago. But they're not, which is probably why no charges have been brought on this old accusation.

We all know the right will pursue cases based on little evidence (Benghazi), so this accusation must really have no legs. So why are they digging it up again when it has nothing to do with Trump's ongoing investigation?

Is it because Mueller was involved in an another Hillary/Russia/uranium story that's completely unrelated and non-nefarious?

https://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-robert-mueller-uranium/

Is Trump hoping that despite it being unrelated, mashing the two stories together will be enough cover for him fire Mueller? That would be the second person in charge of his own Russia investigation that he fired. At the very least, you have to admit that he acts like a guilty person.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

@Serrano

Here's an interesting analysis

Here's an even better analysis, by actual prominent high-profile lawyers and experts instead of some random conspiracy theory lunatic on youtube who think they know everything.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/robert-muellers-show-strength-quick-and-dirty-analysis

It might be beyond the capacity of some Trump's fans to get out of their bubble and read the article linked above, so let me post some snippets from the blog here.

The first big takeaway from Monday morning’s flurry of charging and plea documents with respect to Paul Manafort Jr., Richard Gates III and George Papadopoulos is this: The president of the United States had as his campaign chairman a man who had allegedly served for years as an unregistered foreign agent for a puppet government of Vladimir Putin, a man who was allegedly laundering remarkable sums of money even while running the now-president’s campaign, a man who allegedly lied about all of this to the FBI and the Justice Department.

The second big takeaway is even starker: A member of President Trump’s campaign team admits that he was working with people he knew to be tied to the Russian government to “arrange a meeting between the Campaign and the Russian government officials” and to obtain “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of hacked emails—and that he lied about these activities to the FBI. He briefed President Trump on at least some of them.

Before we dive any deeper into the Manafort-Gates indictment—charges to which both pled not guilty to Monday—or the Papadopoulos plea and stipulation, let’s pause a moment over these two remarkable claims, one of which still must be considered as allegation and the other of which can now be considered as admitted fact. President Trump, in short, had on his campaign at least one person, and allegedly two people, who actively worked with adversarial foreign governments in a fashion they sought to criminally conceal from investigators. One of them ran the campaign. The other, meanwhile, was interfacing with people he “understood to have substantial connections to Russian government officials” and with a person introduced to him as “a relative of Russian President Vladimir Putin with connections to senior Russian government officials.” All of this while President Trump was assuring the American people that he and his campaign had "nothing to do with Russia."

By the way, wasn't Trump the "law and order" candidate? Wasn't he the "tough on crime" candidate? How come he hired a person known to have a dubious reputation to run his campaign? Surely there must have been alternatives abound? But you see, its tough to be angry at someone for committing a crime (tax evasion and money laundering) when you yourself are probably guilty of the same crime.

Also, given that the indictment states that Manafort laundered close to $75 million and his well-documented fondness for money, isn't it strange that Manafort never took any salary from the Trump campaign? Surely even Trump's fans don't believe he is someone who will work for free? Whose payroll was he is on?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

At the end of the day, this has to have been the most satisfying operation + investment for Russia and Putin. He simply capitalized on the fact that many conservatives, after years of watching Fox news and being told liberals were monsters trying to destroy America, would go fall so far off the deep-end they wouldn't believe the high degree of confidence judgement of all American Intelligence Agencies that Russia interfered in the American Presidential elections and helped Trump win. For Putin its a win-win. He is smiling while watching America burn. All because almost half the nation can't bring itself to admit they got hoodwinked, that they made a choice out of anger and hatred instead of reason and logic.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

If they have charges, file them. Doesn't matter who it is.

Smart perps only say this to LEO - "I don't answer questions." In the USA, that applies to all interactions with police/FBI/whatever.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Indeed Papadopoulos is the main event so far. Many knew Manafort was going to go down. The fact that Papadopoulos admitted lying to the FBI about meetings with Russians is big. This thing is just getting started.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

FullM3taL: "It might be beyond the capacity of some Trump's fans to get out of their bubble and read the article linked above"

It might be beyond the capacity of some of Trump's detractors to actually listen to what Styx has to say on this - he is usually correct.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

If bad deals were crimes, Trump would've been jailed years ago.

So would Hillary and Bill, yeeeears ago.

But they're not, which is probably why no charges have been brought on this old accusation. 

Ok, so 19 lawyers that are known Democratic voters, the fact that Mueller donated more to liberal candidates, the fact that Mueller wants these trials to be held in D.C. as liberal stronghold doesn't strike you in the least as a bit partisan?

We all know the right will pursue cases based on little evidence (Benghazi), so this accusation must really have no legs. So why are they digging it up again when it has nothing to do with Trump's ongoing investigation?

Funny, all the special forces that were on the ground gave a different story different. Sorry, these men, don't make a lot of money, have nothing to gain, not to mention the woman told her daughter the embassy was under attack, unless she lied to her own child.

Is it because Mueller was involved in an another Hillary/Russia/uranium story that's completely unrelated and non-nefarious? 

It should be now that we know the Clintons paid a lot of loot for that dossier, a ridicules amount that doesn't make sense to anyone except....the Democrats. LOL

Now that we know Podesta is in the mix, the net is getting tighter around the Dems.

http://thehill.com/homenews/357378-podesta-wasserman-schultz-told-senate-intel-they-didnt-know-of-dossier-funding

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-31/mega-lobbyist-podesta-quits-after-u-s-unveils-manafort-charges

Is Trump hoping that despite it being unrelated, mashing the two stories together will be enough cover for him fire Mueller?

Mueller’s indictment identified the firms as Company A and Company B and said they were allegedly paid by Manafort with more than $2 million in offshore funds. The person who confirmed Tony Podesta’s departure said that Company B is the Podesta Group, which disclosed in April that it had worked for the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine.

Yeah, the left...too funny.

That would be the second person in charge of his own Russia investigation that he fired. At the very least, you have to admit that he acts like a guilty person.

No, but Hillary sure as heck does.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

the net is getting tighter around the Dems.

I know right! All those Dems indicted yesterday! Donny doesn't just have ties to Russia, he's handcuffed to them. I notice you aren't even bothering to deny that any more, just crying about the usual conspiracy nonsense. Going dooooown! ROFL etc

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Oh my things are just getting started...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

In other news Hillary would like the investigation to end riiiiiigght here.

Any guesses why here is a good stopping point for her?

“We now know all we neeed to know..”

”..we don’t need a lengthy imvestigation..”

So now she has ordered Congress to do their job and hold the president accountable (and return her promised presidency to her?)

nope wait, your turn in the investigation is still to come. Unlike your turn to be president.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

The Dem time to get indicted is coming. Wait your turn, just like you will be waiting until 2024 to try to get in the White House and control the senate again

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

I know right! All those Dems indicted yesterday!

Yesterday is not tomorrow or the future. Don't worry, even if in a bizarre hypothetical situation where Trump would be ousted, we would get Pence and Pence is a true and deep and real conservative that would carry on Trump's agenda, so either way, I'm smiling.

Donny doesn't just have ties to Russia, he's handcuffed to them.

How would you know this? If you have pertinent info about that, why aren't you calling Mueller?

I notice you aren't even bothering to deny that any more, just crying about the usual conspiracy nonsense. Going dooooown! ROFL etc

I'm not crying, I'm laughing and I am just waiting to see what happens with Tony Podesta, should be interesting to watch.

Oh my things are just getting started...

They sure are, they sure are/ ROFL

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

@Blacklobal, I'm not a Dem, or the Left, or whatever other group of people you've been told to loathe (of which I'm sure there are many). But it's so cute that you are still obsessed with Hillary when your poster boy has been committing treason with Russia.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Oh has he? “Treason” you say? When was that determined and where may I read the charges and review the evidence?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

"Oh my things are just getting started..."

Oh my, they certainly are!

Mueller's witch hunt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Bg_rxxGzM&t=2s

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Oh My Gawd! If you aren't talking about Hillary, then who could it be. Oh My Gawd! another Hillary excuse for Trumps failings, if shes guilty then she needs to go to prison also, simple as that. How does the "Hillary excuse" justify Trumps illegal doings!?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

How does the "Hillary excuse" justify Trumps illegal doings!?

What Trumps illegal doings?

This was back in 2013! Are you drunk?

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

If you have pertinent info about that, why aren't you calling Mueller?

I don't need to it seems. He's working it out quite well by all accounts! Sounds like he's already got a few juicy squealers ready to talk.

I'm not crying, I'm laughing

No, you're crying. And panicking. Trump has ties to the Russians, and he and his boys have been lying to you, the public and the Feds about it. How embarrassing for you.

where may I read the charges and review the evidence?

They might mention it on the propaganda sites you inhabit in the near future. Doubtful though, it might pop the bubble.

Mueller's witch hunt?

Happy Halloween Mr Trump!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This was back in 2013! And yet the Hillary excuses keep flowing

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This was back in 2013! And yet the Hillary excuses keep flowing

Excuses for what? An investigation that was supposed to expose some Trump - Russian collusion yet all it's turned out is some rich assholes making money in Ukraine back in 2013? You lefties are a funny bunch.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Oh my things are just getting started... exactly go back just a week and it was "nothing to see here, Mueller wont find anything" now its "but but Hillary this Hillary that" or "Mueller witch hunt". Desperate times call for desperate excuses now matter how illogical they may be. Should be another desperate barrage of Trump tweets any-day now. I hope his spray on Orange tan is sweat resistant.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Russian collusion yet all it's turned out is some rich assholes making money in Ukraine back in 2013? You lefties are a funny bunch. possibly but the investigation is far from over, if you asked anybody a week ago the chance of finding any dirt on Trump Id given you 5% odds, now id say 40~50%. Im neither left or right Im not even American but I know stupid when I see it

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Oh my...

Mueller's indictment confirms Manafort-Podesta link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKgeJz-pVOs

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

 Im neither left or right Im not even American but I know stupid when I see it

Interesting comment. By the way, thank you for being so interested in American politics. I have to warn you though, this is all MSM driven, and has nothing to do with how Americans actually feel about this. I'm sorry you got caught in the MSM fish net, but there are much larger issues going on right now and also sorry your corporate MSM has decided not to talk about it and push this silly "FBI" investigation.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Lots of people protesting they aren’t liberal or Democrats or even Americans yet regurgitating the exact MSM democratic approved talking points.

trump’s illegal doings? Like what? was he indicted or convicted of something illegal?

And if Hillary has nothing to do with this why she can’t just be quiet for once instead of trying to tell Congress what to do now.

Better yet keep talking and say something that will come back to haunt her when it’s her turn. In mueller world lying seems to be a crime all by itself so not good for her.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Oh My Gawd! If you aren't talking about Hillary, then who could it be. Oh My Gawd! another Hillary excuse for Trumps failings,

No, sadly there’s no excuse for her

if shes guilty then she needs to go to prison also, simple as that.

Well, we shall see, even if she’s charged with a felony and slapped a heaven fine, is good enough for me.

How does the "Hillary excuse" justify Trumps illegal doings

Doesn't, if Trump is indeed guilty of...oh, I don’t know....then so be it, but he’s confident he did nothing and Hillary is confident, so let’s see what happens next.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

was he indicted or convicted of something illegal?

Was Hillary? How come Trump keeps breaking his promise to have her arrested?

hy she can’t just be quiet for once

That's the Trump followers' problem. Hannity was the one who called her "President Clinton". Hillary is in Trump follower's thoughts and dreams 24/7 so that's on them. Hillary is their narcotic. They live to hate "President" Hillary Clinton.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It's Trump's cult following and anything bad is "President Hillary's" fault.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile, life goes on. If you can't feel in your heart how evil she is, then, my non-fried, maybe you're lacking in observation skills.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. 

OK

4 ( +4 / -0 )

We had the “snowball is just starting” conversation six months ago.

And we’re gonna have it again in another six months.

There’s nothing concrete, it would showed up by now.

Haha

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I have to warn you though, this is all MSM driven, and has nothing to do with how Americans actually feel about this.

Which Americans would they be? One of my colleagues thinks Trump is a lying, amoral con-artist capable of selling his own mother. Another one thinks the Democrats need to get their house in order and look like a party ready to govern rather than pinning their hopes on this.

Who are the ‘Americans’ you are talking about. The ones who make whooping sounds at Trump rallies?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

none of this helps the Dems in any way. Trump is going nowhere and the fewer things he solves while distracted by this the more things you have to campaign about with actual solutions.

also just keeps Hillary as the face of your party longer and longer which neither side wants.

Identity politics, pro illegal immigration stance and fake racist claims getting the Dems killed in Virginia governor race in a state Hillary actually won. Election will be a ”referendum on Trump” again until Dems lose again. then won’t be a big deal at all and he had nothing to do with the Repub who wins.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Trump is going nowhere

Then what's the problem? Why are white Trump followers so angry- especially the nazis? Isn't the US a much better country since he became president?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

There’s nothing concrete, it would showed up by now. hasnt been a year yet, it took the FBI years to catch most of the Gambino mafia family, Im sure the FBI will find the snitches that leads to the top eventually

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Yes it is so much better except for manufactured identity politics that isn’t real.

I am angry because time being wasted on all this nonsense that should be used to fix real actual problems. One of those problems being that why suddenly everything the left doesn’t like is “racist” and everyone who doesn’t support their viewpoint a “white supremacist”?

The Nazis? I’ve seen 2 or 3 fakers on tv, are you actually saying they exist in the entire USA in any significant number that won’t fit on one bus?

Not one Dem has voted even 1 time for anything the trump admin has proposed. So you really think Trump is going to be blamed for not getting anything done?

He was elected to do those things so my guess is next year the Dems voting no will be replaced with repubs who vote yes instead.

Virginia is a solid Dem state but the election is all about supporting illegal immigrants, sanctuary cities and so called white supremacy. They are losing because people don’t care about those issues or understand they are made up.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I am angry because time being wasted on all this nonsense

Then why responding. Why not go and enjoy the much better country that Trump has transformed the US into? He has provided lots of jobs like in coal so isn't it better to get busy working than whining?

The Nazis?

Yes

Not one Dem has voted even 1 time for anything the trump admin has proposed.

Is that "President" Hillary's fault? Hannity caller her "President" Hillary. It shows how he, Trump and his followers are obsessed with her. Like a dog chasing a cat or something. But what did the Dems not vote for? And at the same time the Republicans control the entire government now. Is is really Hillary's fault?

If the US is not a better country then that is all on Trump. He promised that. And he promised to put Hillary in jail. What happened to that promise?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

By the way, thank you for being so interested in American politics. I have to warn you though, this is all MSM driven, and has nothing to do with how Americans actually feel about this well being in Japan and comparing it to J politics its far more interesting. when you state "how Americans actually feel" I hope your not insinuating the majority or even a larger minority because the real (not alternate) facts show that isnt the case. vast majority dont support Trump, majority of voters dont support his policies, yet hes still President!? thats one of the things that make American politics so interesting. You can still be president even when your opponent has more support. LOL

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Doesn't, if Trump is indeed guilty of...oh, I don’t know....then so be it, but he’s confident he did nothing and Hillary is confident, so let’s see what happens next. last thread you said you were happy that he has high price lawyers and loopholes will keep him out of prison, hes done that in business. so your perfectly fine with that!?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

FullM3taL, excellent analysis. Remember Trump saying (on multiple occasions, several versions of) "I'm going to surround myself only with the best and most serious people"?

So much for that.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Which Americans would they be? One of my colleagues thinks Trump is a lying, amoral con-artist capable of selling his own mother.

Most of my finds have even harsher words for Hillary, but none I could ever repeat on JT.

Another one thinks the Democrats need to get their house in order and look like a party ready to govern rather than pinning their hopes on this. 

That will probably never happen at this point in time, they can’t even win elections and what will they run on...racism....identity politics?

Who are the ‘Americans’ you are talking about. The ones who make whooping sounds at Trump rallies?

No, the people that hate the establishment and political partisan politics.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Most of my finds have even harsher words for Hillary, but none I could ever repeat on JT.

It's so funny that Trump followers think that "President" (and Hannity called her "President" on FOX news) Hillary is ruining the country. It's all Hillary's fault. Trump's broken promises like the transgender ban? No wall or Muslim ban? It's Hillary's fault. Why are the grumpy old white people so angry now? They are more angry even though Trump is president. I don't get it. American should be great again. Isn't it? Isn't it a wonderful place since Obama is gone?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

bass4funkToday  08:36 pm JST

Which Americans would they be? One of my colleagues thinks Trump is a lying, amoral con-artist capable of selling his own mother.

Most of my finds have even harsher words for Hillary, but none I could ever repeat on JT.

So what?

Jimizo was responding to Fizzbit's pretentious attempt to speak for all Americans. The fact that you're apparently surrounded in a bubble by people who seethe with hatred for someone who is irrelevant to this discussion says nothing about what Americans in general want and is no surprise to anyone. Indeed, at this point we all pretty much expect that from you.

BlacklabelToday  08:41 pm JST

Plus I am expected to constantly apologize for being straight, white or a man-situation depending.

This has never actually happened. No one expects it and no one has ever asked for it.

There is no place escape this crap anymore.

So you, by far one of this page's most prolific posters, have come to a news story that has nothing to do with the state of liberalism in America, to broadcast your lament that you can't escape from opinions you don't like to hear.

I'll give you a moment to contemplate the irony of you spamming your frustration with politics you disagree with on stories that have nothing to do with them.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

for being straight

Are you? Lots of closeted conservatives like Ted Haggard.

for work not standing for the flag

So? Who cares?

Hollyweird sexually assaulting and pedoing everyone in sight

But Dennis Hastert was doing boy interns. Happens on both sides. He's in prison now.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I’m just happy we dodged that bullet

But Trump voters are more angry than they were. Why? They were happier under Obama. Proof: No nazi protests. and no white lives matters parades. And they still blame Hillary for everything - including Trump's failures (and he has many)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It's lovely to share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biehbIPqV8c

Trump Administration Season Ending

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Jimizo was responding to Fizzbit's pretentious attempt to speak for all Americans. The fact that you're apparently surrounded in a bubble by people who seethe with hatred for someone who is irrelevant to this discussion says nothing about what Americans in general want and is no surprise to anyone. Indeed, at this point we all pretty much expect that from you.

No, the left think they have the moral highground and can politicize the topic that suits their one-sided agenda. The left wants to blow off Hillary as if she’s irrelevant and Thank the heavens that the president and Republicans are putting the squeeze on Mueller to look into this woman and her years of lies and shenanigans.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

17 intelligence agencies and they can’t find anything directly linking Trump to Russia.

Either;

The Trump-Russia team are incredibly smart

17 intelligence agencies are incredibly stupid

or

It’s a big juicy nothing burger

Take your pick

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The left wants to blow off Hillary as if she’s irrelevant

You've found her irrelevant for the past 9 months, suddenly you and your treasonous boss NEED her to be relevant again! "Quick, find someone to disguise our treachery!".

4 ( +4 / -0 )

22 lawyers and still nothing, the best on the planet. But now John and Tony Podesta are being mentioned? And Tony resigns on the day Manafort gets indicted. Oh, dear...

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

@Bass

I thought maybe seven sixths of your friends dislike Clinton. Anyway, that isn’t relevant to to the ridiculous claim of knowing what ‘Anericans’ think of this business.

The left wants to blow off Hillary as if she’s irrelevant

I can remember posts here telling us precisely that Hillary was irrelevant and asking where she is these days. Do you remember those posts?

It’s amazing how often people on this thread have referenced this irrelevant person.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

There's a reason the initial thing they did was negotiate a guilty plea bargain with a small fry like Papadopoulos first - by flipping him, they want to use what he knows to investigate further up

This is not the beginning of the end of Mueller's investigation - it's just the end of the beginning

In federal courts, it usually takes about half a year to go to court, so that means Mueller's investigation will be around for another half year at least

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I thought maybe seven sixths of your friends dislike Clinton. Anyway, that isn’t relevant to to the ridiculous claim of knowing what ‘Anericans’ think of this business.

Really? I totally disagree.

I can remember posts here telling us precisely that Hillary was irrelevant and asking where she is these days. Do you remember those posts? 

But now thats changed.

It’s amazing how often people on this thread have referenced this irrelevant person.

Hey, that’s news, gotta keep updated.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

22 lawyers and still nothing, the best on the planet.

Are you one of those 22 lawyers? Prove it. You know good and well thqt they would have closed the investigation if there was "nothing." Obviously that's not true, so let's just sit and let the investigation run its course. ;)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

John and Tony Podesta are being mentioned?

Oh my God, not Tony Podesta! It's..it's...its....FAKE NEWS! Mueller has been compromised and he's working for Trump! I never trusted that Mueller guy anyway, and he's part of Uranium One and needs to be arrested! This is all corrupt MSM corporate Republican manipulation!!!! Fox News is in on it!!! Is anyone looking into this Republican?? Then I can't trust any of it!!! We need to stop this witch hunt immediately and focus on fixing real problems in America!!! They're just trying to bring Tony down because of politics!!!

^^ Things you don't hear Democrats saying.

At least a half dozen of us on this board have the same position regarding any Democrats: If they are found to have done something wrong, and are arrested, and convicted, then so be it. Get rid of them. We have no desire to spout conspiracies to the end of the earth to protect criminals in our party.

On the other side, well, you have fake news, witch hunts, retread controversies, etc.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

SuperLibToday  10:24 pm JST

"John and Tony Podesta are being mentioned?"

Oh my God, not Tony Podesta! It's..it's...its....FAKE NEWS!

Not to mention a bit off-topic. I would have thought anyone involved in the Clinton campaign is, at the moment, irrelevant to the discussion as the article is about indictments brought against people who worked for Donald Trump. Perhaps the moderators don't see it that way.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"We've been saying from Day One there's no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion, and nothing in the inictment today changes that at all," spokeswoman Sarah Sanders told a news briefing."

She ain't lyin.'

Oh my...

 Uranium One scandal is absolutely massive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOW_eSc1gvE

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

You've found her irrelevant for the past 9 months,

For the presidency, yes, but for her lies, her history when it comes to swindling and shaking down corporations, not at all.

suddenly you and your treasonous boss NEED her to be relevant again!

Trump is the president, he's always relevant. ROFL

Are you one of those 22 lawyers? Prove it.

No, I'm not, but I do know how to read a biography. Kudos!

You know good and well thqt they would have closed the investigation if there was "nothing." Obviously that's not true, so let's just sit and let the investigation run its course. ;)

Yes and also open up one on Hillary as well. If the left can push to have Flynn and Manafort investigated, then let's be fair and investigate the Podesta brothers as well, now you are having a very fair investigation, I'm all for it and let's see where that leads, if you have nothing to hide at this point, then the Dems shouldn't have any problems either.

Oh my God, not Tony Podesta! It's..it's...its....FAKE NEWS!

The left would think that

Mueller has been compromised and he's working for Trump! I never trusted that Mueller guy anyway, and he's part of Uranium One and needs to be arrested! This is all corrupt MSM corporate Republican manipulation!!!!

I can tell you for a fact that the Republicans and the right don't have the power the left has.

Fox News is in on it!!! Is anyone looking into this Republican?? Then I can't trust any of it!!! We need to stop this witch hunt immediately and focus on fixing real problems in America!!! They're just trying to bring Tony down because of politics!!!

From the looks of it, it already seems he's on his to becoming a media

^^ Things you don't hear Democrats saying.

But should.

At least a half dozen of us on this board have the same position regarding any Democrats: If they are found to have done something wrong, and are arrested, and convicted, then so be it. Get rid of them. We have no desire to spout conspiracies to the end of the earth to protect criminals in our party.

And the same goes for the left.

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Should Trump fire Mueller?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Nope. Mueller has in paragraphs 20-22 in his indictment his link between Podesta Group and Manafort. So he is working his way to where he needs to go. Hillary said today we got all we need, no need to investigate any further and John Podesta is Tweeting strangely right now about being a victim of cybercrimes by Putin, while also knowing the DNC was not hacked by Russia. Mueller is on the right track.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

This US internal Bickering is really just going to end up with one thing.

Trump presses the Nuclear button upon North Korea.... (he won't have anything to loose, Politically).

I hope all you American Democrats/Republicans reflect upon his action in future, and ask, if you can wash your own hands clean of that matter.... Good Luck!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Tony Podesta directly linked to what Manafort did and didnt file the same paperwork that Manafort didnt file.

Lying is now a crime as shown by Papadapolpus guy indictment. Hope John Podesta, Wasserman Schultz and Hillary are really sure it isnt a lie they didnt know anything about that dossier....or they get the same result as Papa got. Also the lady who went to the Ukranian embassy to get dirt on Trump, her story better be truthful too. Dont need to prove collusion now, just any lie in the details like Papa did.

All that plus Mueller isnt overlooking crimes by saying there was lack of 'intent' to commit the crime like Comey did to let everyone go free. I think the investigation is right where it should be, with a nice framework in place for the next groups of people. As long as that framework isnt adjusted for one side and not the other, its fine.

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

I offer the following Public Service Announcement:

 What Russian Trolls Are Promoting Today

About the ongoing Russian social media campaign in the US: the website Hamilton 68,  purports to follow Russian influence on Twitter. You can see it here:

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

The Russians really like Tucker Carlson! They’re also really into Tony Podesta, cause for kindergarters, flinging mud at Tony will tarnish everyone else named Podesta too. By right wing, I mean Fox, Rush, Brietbart, Newsmax, Laura Ingram, and so on.

Y'know: Republican Media.

The Point: Republican Media take their talking points from the Kremlin.

It is not only now fair to speak Republican/Russian disinformation and propaganda. We must.

We are the patriots. And they take their talking points from, and collude with Russia. Ferchrissakes.

There’s nothing to be done about the quarter of American that gets their news exclusively from Donald Trump and Fox News, and the Russians. Nothing. They are members of a cult. A Cult of Hate. They hate America. The hate its people. They hate its government. They hates its Constitution. They hate its economy.

They hate America so much that they now openly take their talking points from Russia ferchissakes. They openly heap praise on Putin ferchissakes.

And now we know they openly collude with Russia to subvert our nation.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yous [Trump fan boys] speaking the same B.S. too.... for free.

I'm no so sure that is entirely true.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Not to mention a bit off-topic. I would have thought anyone involved in the Clinton campaign is, at the moment, irrelevant to the discussion as the article is about indictments brought against people who worked for Donald Trump. Perhaps the moderators don't see it that way.

Nice try, but if you are going to talk about Manafort, then you need to connect the dots and this is why the GOP need to put more pressure on Mueller to expand his investigation, I don't have problem with it as much as I have the overall intent of the investigation. Is it to really find out if there was collusion going on between Trump and the Russians or is it just to find a scapegoat to get him out of the White House? That's the million dollar question. If it is indeed to get to the bottom, then he needs to connect the dots and if he does that and from what we now know, the Dems are knee deep bathing in corruption.

Mercury Public Affairs LLC also disclosed in an April filing with the Justice Department that it worked for the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine, which the indictment said is a mouthpiece for Yanukovych.

In April, the Podesta Group and Mercury filed belated FARA disclosures with the Justice Department outlining their work with the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine. In those filings, Podesta and Mercury said that they were unaware their work was for the Ukrainian government. The disclosures covered the period from April 2012 through April 2014.

How could these people not know?

Using identical language in those filings, both firms said that the European Centre for a Modern Ukraine had provided "written certification" that it was not controlled or financed by a foreign government or political party. According to Monday’s indictment, the center was created in 2012 and used by Manafort, Gates and others to conduct a public relations campaign in the U.S. and Europe on behalf of the Yanukovych regime.

So if Mueller wants to go through with this investigation, do so and expand it into the Democrats side starting with Tony Podesta, follow the crumbs and we might be surprised to where that could possibly lead up to.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Awesome.

So we're all on the same page that Mueller should continue, and if anyone is found to have committed a crime, whether it's Trump, Clinton, Podesta, Manafort, whomever, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Now let's all put aside this "witch hunt" and "Democratic donors" talk and let these people do their jobs.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

McCarthyism

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

nice start, soon will be t's turn.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So we're all on the same page that Mueller should continue, and if anyone is found to have committed a crime, whether it's Trump, Clinton, Podesta, Manafort, whomever, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

I agree.

Now let's all put aside this "witch hunt" and "Democratic donors" talk and let these people do their jobs.

Oh, I do believe this is a witch hunt, most definitely, but be as it may, let it run it’s course and let’s see if Mueller will do the right thing and cover all bases and covers allegations from both sides equally and fairly.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

bass4funkToday  06:29 am JST

So we're all on the same page that Mueller should continue, and if anyone is found to have committed a crime, whether it's Trump, Clinton, Podesta, Manafort, whomever, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

I agree.

Now let's all put aside this "witch hunt" and "Democratic donors" talk and let these people do their jobs.

Oh, I do believe this is a witch hunt, most definitely, but be as it may, let it run it’s course and let’s see if Mueller will do the right thing and cover all bases and covers allegations from both sides equally and fairly.

You agree it should continue, and that anyone found to have committed a crime should be prosecuted, yet also believe that it's a "witch hunt". Hmmm... this seems relevant

GeorgeOrwell 1949

The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies—all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Oh, I do believe this is a witch hunt, most definitely, but be as it may, let it run it’s course and let’s see if Mueller will do the right thing and cover all bases and covers allegations from both sides equally and fairly.

He's not required to. Even assuming you were capable of understanding the concept of "equally and fairly" if it walked up to you and kicked you in the shins, which you aren't, allegations from both sides don't necessarily have equal weight, and therefore don't necessarily require equally serious attention. Otherwise law enforcement officials could be tied up in perpetuity over every frivolous thing that's sent their way. Allegations are easy to make, as anyone who's been skunk-sprayed by Donald Trump (ie. everyone) is all too aware.

Mueller will continue to do what is set out in the appointment order - the one you seem unwilling to read and unable to understand - which in particular authorizes him to continue with Comey's investigation into "links and/or coordination with individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" and also gives him discretion (and authority) if he "believes it is necessary and appropriate" to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation.

If that involves Clinton associates, then he has the authority (but is not required) to prosecute, and I doubt that many people are going to shed tears for those caught in the net. What he doesn't have is the obligation to follow every allegation with equal vigour, or balance the tally with an equal number of Clinton people and Trump people, or listen to hysterical rightwing raving of the kind that you and some of your clones have spewed all over this thread.

The first part of the investigation has been made public, and it is unknown what proportion of the total it represents, or how long the rest will take: only that serious crimes have been uncovered, that they have been committed by people on the Trump campaign, and that it is unlikely the investigation ends here or that we have heard the bulk of what will be found.

When it comes down to it, Trump is likely to fire Mueller sooner rather than later - because even with the best legal advice money can buy, and a real 4-star general (swoon) to change his nappy, he actually is that stupid, that indiscreet, and in that much trouble. It isn't going to solve his wider problem, but he will as usual do anything that buys a bit of time now, even if it's at far greater expense down the road. Once a conman, always a conman.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

BTW

A review of the public record reveals a clear and disturbing pattern: Trump owes much of his business success, and by extension his presidency, to a flow of highly suspicious money from Russia.

--https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

2 ( +2 / -0 )

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

Donald Trump, Jr. 2008

2 ( +2 / -0 )

bass4funkNov. 1  02:36 am JST

Not to mention a bit off-topic. I would have thought anyone involved in the Clinton campaign is, at the moment, irrelevant to the discussion as the article is about indictments brought against people who worked for Donald Trump. Perhaps the moderators don't see it that way.

Nice try...

I couldn't be bothered reading any more after that I'm afraid. I thought I saw something about Manafort, or Democrats, or maybe ROFL as I was scrolling down to the bottom of the page but I would have to read it again to be sure and I really do have better ways to spend my time. I hope it didn't take too long to write the rest.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

You agree it should continue, and that anyone found to have committed a crime should be prosecuted, yet also believe that it's a "witch hunt". Hmmm... this seems relevant.

We're already past that point, but now we are here and we just need to let it play out, but this was definitely a witch hunt.

I couldn't be bothered reading any more after that I'm afraid. I thought I saw something about Manafort, or Democrats, or maybe ROFL as I was scrolling down to the bottom of the page but I would have to read it again to be sure and I really do have better ways to spend my time. I hope it didn't take too long to write the rest.

Then you wouldn't have spent time writing what you just claimed you didn't do. Slipping Simon? LOL

He's not required to. Even assuming you were capable of understanding the concept of "equally and fairly" if it walked up to you and kicked you in the shins, which you aren't, allegations from both sides don't necessarily have equal weight, and therefore don't necessarily require equally serious attention.

Ok, you believe that garbage, I'll use the law and basic commonsense.

Mueller will continue to do what is set out in the appointment order - the one you seem unwilling to read and unable to understand - which in particular authorizes him to continue with Comey's investigation into "links and/or coordination with individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump" and also gives him discretion (and authority) if he "believes it is necessary and appropriate" to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation.

I see, so continue the witch hunt and everything that smells fishy on the left ignore? One sided investigation, nice, but it's funny when Podesta's name comes up the left have complete meltdown and DEMAND any inquiries into the brothers has to stopped immediately. Yeah, sure.

If that involves Clinton associates, then he has the authority (but is not required) to prosecute,

Then he should that's what a fair and non-partisan would do, the indictment of Manafort and the unwillingness of this man ignoring the collusion that is clearly coming from the left is and probably will be the tombstone for the Democrats. As usual, they are always emotional and never think things through or worry about possible repercussions. What can Democrats run on besides impeachment, because I didn't hear anything as how they could make the country better. Identity politics, hate, income redistribution, free education, racism? Yeah, that'll get them elected.

The first part of the investigation has been made public, and it is unknown what proportion of the total it represents, or how long the rest will take: only that serious crimes have been uncovered,

And NONE of them even closely related to Trump and have everything to do with money laundering and also ties to the Podesta brothers, so let's see where this goes, what did they do with all the money they got from the Russians that Manafort was part of.

Hmmmm....

that they have been committed by people on the Trump campaign, and that it is unlikely the investigation ends here or that we have heard the bulk of what will be found.

But now that the Pedesta brothers are involved, this investigation should change very quickly. Funny, the day Manafort gets indicted and Tony Podesta resigns from his company as soon as it is confirmed that Manafort was to be indicted.

When it comes down to it, Trump is likely to fire Mueller sooner rather than later - because even with the best legal advice money can buy, and a real 4-star general (swoon) to change his nappy,

You mean like Obama had Holder and Hillary had Podesta (John) I get it.

he actually is that stupid, that indiscreet, and in that much trouble. It isn't going to solve his wider problem, but he will as usual do anything that buys a bit of time now, even if it's at far greater expense down the road. Once a conman, always a conman.

Then you must despise the Clinton's. Don't worry, we Americans have it under control. Kudos!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

this is about hillary not trump. as usual the paid media twists the story and the feeble minded believe it

Attorney Gregg Jarrett says that Hillary Clinton could be charged with at least 13 different crimes for her involvement in the Uranium One scandal and the Trump ‘peegate’ dossier. 

Asked by Fox News host Sean Hannity how many crimes Hillary could be charged with, Jarrett responded, “13 potential crimes committed by Hillary Clinton, she’d be charged for six anti-corruption – they were all felonies.” 

“She could also be charged with racketeering for using her charity as a criminal enterprise and then you’ve got all of the email crimes – two of them under the espionage act and two additional.” 

Jarrett also said Clinton could be facing prison for her involvement in colluding with Russia to pay for the infamous ‘peegate’ dossier on Trump.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I see, so continue the witch hunt and everything that smells fishy on the left ignore? One sided investigation, nice, but it's funny when Podesta's name comes up the left have complete meltdown and DEMAND any inquiries into the brothers has to stopped immediately. Yeah, sure.

The investigation isn't concluded, and gives no appearance of even being close to concluded. I haven't heard from anyone on the left demanding the investigation be stopped, and I'm not demanding it myself either. Why would I? I want to see where it goes. I've already said, let them catch who they catch, and prosecute as appropriate. That's what Mueller, a Republican, has been appointed to do, by the Deputy Attorney General, a member of the Trump administration.

You should read the appointment letter, and you should learn how to understand what you read.

It gives Mueller authority to continue with the investigation started by Comey. It gives him very wide discretion. It does not tell him who he must prosecute or what crimes he must prosecute for. It does not even say he must prosecute at all. It does say that the authority to make that decision is his if he believes it to be "necessary and appropriate". It doesn't set a time limit, or even mention one. (He, unlike his critics, will understand what this signifies.) It does mention a focus of investigation, and that is the Trump campaign, or to quote directly, "individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump".

So while Mueller does what he's been tasked to do, there's been a constant stream of bitching, from the right, not the left, about Mueller's investigation, even before any findings were made public.

This bitching took (and continues to take) the form of: criticising the length of the investigation; describing the investigation itself as a "witch hunt"; describing allegations of collusion with Russia, and even of Russian interference (an established fact), as a "hoax", criticism of every single member of the Mueller team for either registering with or contributing to a political party (even though the investigation is led by a registered Republican); attempts to discredit Mueller in any way possible; demands that he be removed on grounds of conflict of interest (ie, should never have been appointed in the first place); claims, based on nothing, that Mueller is "desperate" (one of your favourites); demands, based again on nothing, that he be fired, even though his investigation has already turned up evidence of: exactly what he was put in place to investigate.

Ok, you believe that garbage, I'll use the law and basic commonsense.

What you call garbage is what's in the appointment letter, which is from (a stand-in for) the (Russia-compromised) Attorney General, and from the office that had the legal authority to appoint Mueller in the first place. Even if you possessed the ability to construct a legal argument, or to do legal research, you'd have little hope of finding a law that, at this late stage, could render an appointment from the Attorney General's office void, or that would invalidate the contents of such a letter.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Mueller still doesn't have anything on Trump. So what's this investigation about anyway? Oh yes I remember, it's about Hillary's collusion with the Kremlin to dig up dirt on her political opponent and to make wads of cash through her husband and the Clinton Foundation.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Mueller still doesn't have anything on Trump.

Oh, you’re part of the investigation? Why are you releasing this information which has not been released by your con-investigators on a Japan news site? Aren’t you worried about being punished when they find out?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

WolfpackToday  02:40 am JST

Mueller still doesn't have anything on Trump. 

Or so you hope. I hope so too. I would really prefer the most powerful elected official in the world to be totally above reproach when it comes to this kind of thing, It would be terrible if there really were something, wouldn't it, especially for his most vocal and strident supporters. Certain people would be able to derive a certain grim satisfaction from being able to say "I told you so," but if I'd been praising Trump like he were the greatest human being ever and he turned out to be a criminal incompetent I think I would feel just a bit stupid.

I see there have been a few predictable attempts to turn this discussion on to the topic of the Clinton campaign and the Democrats. Maybe there is something on her, too. I wouldn't be surprised and I wouldn't be all that bothered either. I did not think she was a very good candidate and maybe the 2016 election will teach the Democrats not to anoint establishment insiders, so let her go down for anything she's guilty of. It wouldn't bother me. I haven't invested huge amounts of time, effort and ego in supporting her and I certainly wouldn't try to defend her no matter what. However none of that is at all relevant until the serious possibility is raised that Democrats or their 2016 campaign will also be investigated. Until then, I'll take further comments about Hilary Clinton and Democrats as a tacit admission that people can't think of any good excuses for Donald Trump.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Mueller still doesn't have anything on Trump. So what's this investigation about anyway?

Well the good news for those of you who like to play dumb about that is that, thanks to Trump firing the head of the FBI in an his ill-advised attempt to halt an ongoing investigation associated with his own people, a Special Counsel was appointed by the DOJ, the subject of the investigation was stated explicitly in writing, and the document is available to the public. It is short, and in plain English. So your question is answered by the document.

If you ever bother to read it, you'll find (as I quote here) that the Special Counsel is authorized to "conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI director James B. Comey".

The investigation is into:

"Any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump"

It is also into "any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation".

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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