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US braces for blowback over Afghan war disclosures

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Some geek thinks he can get his moment of glory, but I feel for the people on the ground who now have their guaranteed secret cover blown. They will have no choice but to flee, and probably have to take their families with them. Welcome to the refugee ranks. Now the political situation in Afghanistan is ten times harder than last week.

Nice for me here at my desk to have some insights, though. Cheers mate.

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"Congress that one of the nation’s longest conflicts"

It is the longest war in American history.

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Illegal war with no purpose. No-one has ever won a war of invasion in Afghanistan. US history of winning wars of occupation abysmal. Cring the boys home.

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I understand wanting to know what is happening in the government of the country you live in, but exposing what your own military and spies know and whom they are working with and where and when? There is no excuse.. no 'need to know' when it comes to war. War is not logical, war is not civil, war is not equal or politically correct or considerate of things like freedom of information for the sake of interesting reading or entertaining website viewers. The people who put up WikiLeaks have done so much worse than just act irresponsibly. Their acts literally are treason. I feel so sorry for anyone who ultimately will lose their life, and for the families of those people who will lose a son or daughter, because someone sitting at a computer somewhere far away said "Oh this would be good to put on a website".

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The Afghan war is a no win in nearly every way. Staying will not result in a peaceful democracy in the near future. Maybe after another decade of occupation. maybe.

Leaving empowers the Taliban and threatens Pakistan's stability. Something quite unacceptable to the region.

And in any case the Afghan people continue to lose for as long as conflict goes on.

Bringing the boys home may just mean they are back there in Pakistan or Afghanistan a few years later. Leaving them there means little more than dragging out a losing war.

I wish I had an answer. I love Afghan culture and heritage and sincerely wish the people could be given a chance for a safe and prosperous future.

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Only the truly delusional think this war can be won.

America is being beaten - there's no doubt about it.

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For people saying this is treason. Two words:

Valerie Plame

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I think this article is crap. Not one specific example of information that damages the war or puts specific people in danger. And worse, not one specific example of something that SHOULD NOT have been witheld from public knowledge, despite the bit we learned about those civilians getting killed THANKS to this leak.

But it sure paints a picture of how America was wronged. How? Specifically? Is anybody believing that U.S. intelligence services are innocent little lambs using secrecy for nothing but good? Hiding civilian deaths is bullcrap. If victory means doing that, then we don't deserve to win! We just become a different form of bad.

I said it before and I will say it again: Whoever released the info is a hero, same as any journalists that shows coffins coming home, another thing being hidden from us in order to bullcrap us into supporting the farce in Afghanistan, our new Vietnam.

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There has been this mythology that wars, those defined as just causes, are won through just means. But this is simply not the case. Even WWII shows that crimes against humanity were a part of the behavior of both sides.

What has changed is the presense of a media that can share this horror with the general public. It shaped Vietnam and it is shaping Iraq and Afghanistan.

I believe the wars that are under way now are not moral or just wars. Though I do believe that the Afghan people would be better off rid of the Taliban.

But the sad reality is that both the war and the previous Taliban rule have harmed the normal people of the region. And it is they who are the ultimate losers.

There are no pure and true good guys my friends. There are only sides, each with its own moral justification for its actions and both bent upon winning despite the cost to humanity, to justice and to goodness. It is an ancient human reality. The sooner we give up notions of good and bad, right and wrong the sooner we will realize that there are never truly winners in war, only victims and the dead.

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America cant be beaten in this war, just like America cant win. The whole situation can only ever be one of containment and damage limitation. These revelations dont make that task any easier.

Afghanistan will never be a democracy in the sense we know it in the west, naive to think it ever could be. The war is being fought in Afghanistan to hit Al-Qaeda and reduce the incidence of terrorism at home. That objective was gained years ago. The Taliban are ubiquitous so trying to destroy them would be tantamount to genocide. Time to start talking, at least with the less hardline groups that want to see an end to the stalemate sooner rather than later.

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Agreed. It is time to start talking. And that has to begin with assurances that the local cultures are respected and preserved along with strong and easily understood economic benefits for putting an end to the conflict.

Afghans are no more crazy about the Al Qaida people than we are. The Taliban are more concerned with preserving their way of life. If a compromise is found, many of the taliban will disappear. Those left will find it increasingly hard to gain support from the locals.

this is the only partial solution possible. Fighting will fail. Leaving will have long term dire consequences.

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If the GOP wins a majority in November, we can expect to see another epic failure as Iraq was. Wars without end are for people without strategy. Bring the troops home.

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This:

WikiLeaks insists it has behaved responsibly, even withholding some 15,000 records that are believed to include names of specific Afghans or Pakistanis who helped U.S. troops on the ground.

Not one specific example, Mistwizard? Wikileaks witheld it, yes, to their credit, but the geek didn't bother.

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This document release is a great move. Keeps the U.S. and Afghan govts. and intel agencies on their toes, provides Americans with a far more accurate picture of the state of the war, and shows the world that bush and the GOP made yet another monumental screw-up. All good.

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The fog of war !!!! Very sad for the US soldiers, CIA & Allied Foreign Operatives.

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You would think with all that 'Intelligence' gathered someone would actually call it like it is.

Southern Afghanistan is nothing more and nothing less than who controls the opium trade. It's a Narco-State hidden behind religious garbage. Been that way for centuries.

How do think the Taliban an A.Q have been able to buy their weapons all these years? On credit from their good looks????

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This document release is a great move. Keeps the U.S. and Afghan govts. and intel agencies on their toes, provides Americans with a far more accurate picture of the state of the war, and shows the world that bush and the GOP made yet another monumental screw-up. All good.

Sushi,

Shame on you for that. Even this administration said the leak risks American lives.

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WikiLeaks insists it has behaved responsibly, even withholding some 15,000 records that are believed to include names of specific Afghans or Pakistanis who helped U.S. troops on the ground.

I'm not sure which is worse....someone actually handing over information like this to a third party or someone else calling him a "hero."

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"WikiLeaks.org revelations could endanger U.S. counterterror networks"

Real patriots, WikiLeaks.org.

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Sail - "Shame on you for that. Even this administration said the leak risks American lives."

It's unbelievable how some people miss the big picture.

The Afghanistan war has already cost the lives of 1,000+ Americans, not mentioning the wounded.

This document release won't cost anywhere near that number, the number of people who have died unnecessarily because your bud Bush failed to read up on his history before launching this war.

Sail, your failure to see the big picture here is just astonishing.

The only shame here should be heaped on your head.

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Southern Afghanistan is nothing more and nothing less than who controls the opium trade. It's a Narco-State hidden behind religious garbage. Been that way for centuries.

The Taliban were actually quite successful with their anti-drug campaigns...

in July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season

But a comparison with what is happening now is probably needed here:

Afghanistan is, as of March, 2008, the greatest illicit opium producer in the world, ahead of Burma (Myanmar) and the "Golden Triangle". Afghanistan is the main producer of opium in "Golden Crescent". Opium production in Afghanistan has been on the rise since the downfall of the Taliban in 2001. Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004–2007) than in any one year during Taliban rule.

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"one of the nation's longest conflicts is hopelessly stalemated"

It might become necessary to send Iron Man back there.

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This document release is a great move. Keeps the U.S. and Afghan govts. and intel agencies on their toes, provides Americans with a far more accurate picture of the state of the war, and shows the world that bush and the GOP made yet another monumental screw-up. All good.

I have great doubts about it.... In fact majority of the so-called leaks have implicated the Iranians with Osama bin Laden's AQ.... It kinda smells farcical when all it did (the leaks) was to raise more suspicion on the Iranians direct ties with the Al Qaeda network. Call me cynical but I do sense US military involvement on this one :(

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Also, the leaks now contend that the North Koreans are somehow in cahoots with AQ... (Yep, not on par but in cahoots with 'em). I might not like 'Lil Kimmie's goons but it's rather outlandish to imply that the DPRK was somehow bogged down with Osama Bin Laden's terror front.

Whatever?! But one thing is for sure the disclosures beg more questions than answers-- whether top US officials were involved, to heighten tensions with both N. Korea and the Iranians, or not.... the people deserves explanations....

And yes, I agree with one poster above, the leaks will create more threats to US servicemen deployed in Afghanistan ./sigh

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Sarge - "It might become necessary to send Iron Man back there."

Not very funny to see an American who has never served making jokes about those who do/have.

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Sushi, U.S. counterterror networks are something you should be supporting and hoping that nothing endangers them. So why aren't you?

"an American who has never served ( me )"

Sushi, you don't know me at all.

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Sarge, it's probaby better the U.S. military don't know you either.

Really, are you against U.S. servicepeople being charged with war crimes if war crimes have been committed, if the documents released by WikiLeaks are accurate?

This is what you should be talking about.

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Amazing how the Taliban have regrouped during Obama's mis-leadership. Of course he was warned against telling the enemy when you're leaving, but he fired that guy.

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Sushi, why don't you support the people who are keeping the scumbags who would torture and kill you without hesitation or remorse from doing so?

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Sarge - "Sushi, why don't you support the people who are keeping the scumbags who would torture and kill you without hesitation or remorse from doing so?"

Why don't you come up with an original line?

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The WikiLeaks documents confirm the massive scale of US-NATO repression. By the American military’s own classification, which downplays the role of US and NATO troops, the release includes 13,734 reports of “friendly action” by US-NATO forces. The number of Afghan attacks—there are 27,078 reports of “enemy action” and 23,082 of “explosive hazards”—shatters claims that the Afghan resistance is the product of a few Al Qaeda terrorists. There are 237 reports of popular demonstrations against the US occupation or US-controlled Afghan authorities.

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I doubt that 90,000+ classified documents were just found by a hacker and released to wikileaks. Pakistan was probably being uncooperative, so releasing documents that show that Pakistan's Military has ties to the Taliban is a shot over the bow to smarten up. Wars have been started with less reliable intelligence.

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The coalition and Afghan forces will prevail over the Taliban and other extremists without the support of certain people.

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Sarge - "The coalition and Afghan forces will prevail over the Taliban and other extremists without the support of certain people."

Sarge, you're talking straight out of an ivory tower press release.

The coalition and Afghan forces will get thumped.

Sorry, ARE GETTING thumped. That's the message the world is getting loud and clear.

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Blowback. I remember that word blowback. Havent heard it for a long time.

These leaks happened on Obama's watch. Is it a coincidence?

No.

American, Australian, Canadian, British, NATO and Afghanistan intel sources, or even suspected ones, will get killed.

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The coalition and Afghan forces will prevail over the Taliban and other extremists without the support of certain people.

How?! The two warnings from ex-CIA chiefs clearly indicate blowbacks...

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The coalition and Afghan forces will prevail over the Taliban and other extremists without the support of certain people.

Without the support of the American people? I dunno.

Seems to me that American people don't have the patience or will to win a couple of wars these days. Seems like the American people are more concerned about stupid political squabbles, and watching American Idol. And despite the recession, domestic problems galore, and two wars...Americans still want taxes to be lower. Something has to give.

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Bin Laden doesn't intend to defeat the US, he only wants to bankrupt the US.. he has said this, and it's working. Spending over 15 Billion a month in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we can't build a 2 Billion dollar fence to guard our own southern border.

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It's nice to see some real news instead of the usual indoctrination on the TV. -No wonder the Libs are so upset when this sort of information messes up their usual indoctrination programming.

-Same thing when that hacker busted up the Globalist CO2 agenda.

If not for these "hackers" the Globalists would have complete media control over these issues.

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We are losing because we give a s**t about not trying to kill civilians. Honestly thats a losing strategy, I recommend erasing cities from the map and leaving craters behind. Start that country up again from scratch. But that is just my view and opinion so if you dont like it or feel it is morally wrong I dont care. Have a great day :)

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Badsey,

wow, you are confused. The wikileaks information was not gained via a hacker, it turned over in the hope that the truth about the failed bush invasion of Afghanistan. Liberals have been saying for years that the war in both Afghanistan and Iraq are failures. Nothing new there. Try to pay attention to those that know better.

The hacker incident regarding global warming, hope you enjoying the warmest summer ever this year, turned out to be meaningless. News from last week.

And what are these globalist you are so afraid of? Do they live under mushrooms? Are they magically delicious?

The ways that the tea bagger types fool themselves are simply endless. It would be hilarious if not so sad, sad in a pitiful way really.

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Well lots to read here, Many good points.

The war in Afghanistan is a waste of time money, and lives.

This release of documents could do alot more harm than good, sad really, I think this was a huge mistake and hope the ppl who let this info out to be punished, in the right way...

But I also have mixed feelings, we all know war is not civil and is horrid, along many other terms we could find to use. Every country will go through harsh measures to "look good" and top the truth, not something I can condone but I am sure Afghanistan has many of these same types of documents of things they have done illegally and that could also shine the same kind of light on things that happen "behind the scenes" as well.

To have someone post this was wrong on their part, they did not think of the lives of others, and the damage it could do. I agree with…

nandakandamanda Some geek thinks he can get his moment of glory,

A moment of glory, good thing the govt. isn’t like the mafia, or the person/s involved would be walking around watching their backs all paranoid =0

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Southern Afghanistan is nothing more and nothing less than who controls the opium trade. It's a Narco-State hidden behind religious garbage. Been that way for centuries.

Baloney. Afghanistan did not become the world's leader in opium poppy production until the early 1980s, when the U.S. sent agricultural advisors to the country to foster widespread heroin additiction among the invading Soviet troops.

Prior to the 1980s, Afghanistan's poppy production was minimal, with none of it being processed into heroin. One of the aspects of U.S. covert support for the Afghans was to increase opium poppy production by a hundred-fold -- with heroin as the main end for the product.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/03/30/afghanistan_as_drug_war

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I've read though a lot of these reports, and there's nothing in them that Captain Obvious hasn't already blown the whistle on. I mean, gee whiz what a surprise: The war is worse than advertised by politicians, there are civilian casualties, and the Taliban are also bad. The only difference today is we no longer have to use logic or our imagination to figure out what's going on.

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"The war in Afghanistan is waste of time, money and lives"

Then why is Obama sending even more U.S. troops there?

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Sarge...Then why is Obama sending even more U.S. troops there?..because he is an arse and couuld care less!

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He's trying to find a half-respectable solution to the quagmire left him by bush, the anti-American idiot Sarge voted for not once but twice.

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Then why is Obama sending even more U.S. troops there?

Because Obama was elected with the big help of the same people who backed Bush.

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nandakandamanda said: Not one specific example, Mistwizard? Wikileaks witheld it, yes, to their credit, but the geek didn't bother.

Believed to have included is NOT a specific example. And if the individual poured through 15,000 records to make sure they were "safe", we would be getting this leak about 2025. Fact is, it was our government that should have handed us relevant information a long time ago. We should not have to have people leak it at all. This supposed to be a democracy, and its not like we need to suspend democracy like we are under seige or something.

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MistWizard, I totally agree. It seems like some on this board who are up in arms about this leak would actually prefer Americans stay in the dark about this war. How anti-American can you get?

Bring the truth out and expose the liars.

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If people debating this is gonna say we need to expose the liars well then start with the people who say America is a democracy and information should not be withheld.

Because any American who has read the Constitution (or passed a high school civics class) knows America is NOT a democracy.

America is a constitutional republic.

The word democracy don't even appear in the Constitution.

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Good point..MisterCreosote!

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psyops, your desire to 'erase cities from the map and leave craters behind' shows nothing less than near hysterical desperation, zero tolerance and zero respect. Ironically, you seem just like the enemy you hate.

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republic |rɪˌpʌblɪk| noun a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

democracy |dɪˌmɒkrəsi| noun ( pl. -cies) a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives : a state governed in such a way

What's the difference?

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We are losing because we give a s**t about not trying to kill civilians. Honestly thats a losing strategy, I recommend erasing cities from the map and leaving craters behind. Start that country up again from scratch.

Spoken like a true American!

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Constitutional republic..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

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The leaked documents are pretty interesting. Having read some of them, I am not altogether sure that the Obama administration would want this to become public, because it will freak a lot of Americans

"On 19 November 2005, Hezb-e-Islami party leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Dr Amin (NLN) [no last name], Osama bin Laden’s financial adviser, both flew to NORTH KOREA, departing from an [sic] IRAN. They returned to Helmand on approximately 3 December 2005. While in NORTH KOREA, the two confirmed a deal with the North Korean government for remote controlled rockets for use against American and coalition aircraft."

We live in very interesting times.

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"On 19 November 2005, Hezb-e-Islami party leader Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and Dr Amin (NLN) [no last name], Osama bin Laden’s financial adviser, both flew to NORTH KOREA, departing from an [sic] IRAN. They returned to Helmand on approximately 3 December 2005. While in NORTH KOREA, the two confirmed a deal with the North Korean government for remote controlled rockets for use against American and coalition aircraft."

That's actually on yesterday's Rupert Murdoch press-- the North Koreans somehow in cahoots with AQ, and as far back as Nov. 2005? (Yep, not on par but in cahoots with 'em). Which means, if you actually believe what the leaks has to say, only two months after the North agrees to stop building nuclear weapons in exchange for aid and cooperation, Kim Jong Il was actually meeting with.....an AQ senior official?!

Whatever?!

I might not like 'Lil Kimmie's mafia-kingdom but it's rather outlandish to imply that the DPRK was somehow bogged down with Osama Bin Laden's terror front.

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Ok I am dumbfounded!..If that is true then U.S officials having made this statement... "Pentagon officials have not found anything top-secret among the documents, a Defense Department spokesman said. "From what we have seen so far, the documents are at the 'secret' level," Col. David Lapan said. That's not a very high level of classification...what a bunch of crock!..

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The leaks make for very intersting reading. Apparently there are Arabs and Iranians in Afghanistan fighting NATO and coalition forces. Can we call that imperialism, when they travel all that way to support O bin Laden, and oppress the Afghans?

"The Arabs are only charge[d] to carry out suicide attacks against US and Italian troops or, secondarily, whatever foreigners personnel [sic]. The four Iranians belong to ‘intelligence’ unit of Sepah-e-Pasdaran [Iranian Revolutionary Guards] and they are supporting GYA in the anti-Isaf/Afghan government actions through intelligence and as well co-ordinating the GYA group activities."

Is Rupert Murdoch the new owner of The Guardian newspaper?

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My goodness, of course there is a bit in news about america and people of every other nationality get to have a field day. I really wish you could see the way people spoke about your countries in the past. Might be a reality check. Every country has faults and messes up time to time. America is just a really big country, a huge country compared to most. Our population is higher, which provides for more opportunities to screw up.

When are you guys going to learn to lay off and spend your time effectively instead of on generating negativity and crude comments.

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supermorgan8 - "When are you guys going to learn to lay off and spend your time effectively instead of on generating negativity and crude comments."

You want us to lay off the criticism considering most of the money that bankrolls the U.S. economy, wars and deficit spending - and that was 'lost' here - comes from taxpayers in Japan and China, like myself and many other posters on Japan Today?

It is/was OUR MONEY.

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Well, what I just wanna say is Thank You to the non-Americans who are in Japan for help with bankrolling the War on Terror. It's your money. O-t$ukare $ama d~e$u.

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Sushi: "He's ( Obama's ) trying to find a half-respectable solution to the quagmire left by bush"

Obama can do no wrong in Sushi's eyes.

Hey, Sushi, how about trying to stamp out the Taliban and other extremists? That would be like totally respectable.

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MisterCreosote, there are times when I don't mind being proven wrong.

The word democracy don't even appear in the Constitution.

And that is one of them. Even I have brainwashing to contend with. But it hardly changes my opinion of how informed I think the people should be.

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Can we call that imperialism, when they travel all that way to support O bin Laden, and oppress the Afghans?

I thought the CIA did exactly that during the late 70s-- wasn't bin Laden himself a puppet of the US spy network against the Soviets?!

Is Rupert Murdoch the new owner of The Guardian newspaper?

./shivers what a horrible a newspaper!

You want us to lay off the criticism considering most of the money that bankrolls the U.S. economy, wars and deficit spending - and that was 'lost' here - comes from taxpayers in Japan and China, like myself and many other posters on Japan Today? It is/was OUR MONEY.

LOL he probably thought that Asian readers of JT are as brainwashed as he is :(

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The Taliban have been using shoulder-mounted missiles to take down U.S. helicoptors. The U.S. sold them the same missiles when they were fighting the Russians 30 years ago. What goes around comes around.

jruaustralia, are you denying that Japan and China - using taxpayers' money - are the single biggest purchasers of U.S. govt. debt? Really? I'm sorry you know so little about basic global economics.

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So have we gotten blowback yet?

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jruaustralia, are you denying that Japan and China - using taxpayers' money - are the single biggest purchasers of U.S. govt. debt? Really? I'm sorry you know so little about basic global economics.

mmmm... I was squeezing thinking my message was clear enough. Alas I was wrong ./sigh

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MisterCreosote: Well, what I just wanna say is Thank You to the non-Americans who are in Japan for help with bankrolling the War on Terror. It's your money. O-t$ukare $ama d~e$u.

Utterly classic.

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While i had said all that i felt i needed to regarding the article itself, after reading some of the blatant lies being spewed by certain commenters in this thread it is worth posting again, if for no other reason than to counter those lies with some truth - the 'leaks' are NOT about civilian bodies.. that information comes to us already. Civilians caught in crossfires, caught in car bombs, caught in terrorist attacks - that is war and it is no secret and it is not hidden by the US government, and further more it is not at all what the article is about. The leaks that threaten American forces in the Afghanistan war are specifically information about covert operatives working for and with the USA in the war - these people are being outed publicly by this information for those who actually read it - it is our soldiers and our allies undercover in the war who are put in danger by the information. WikiLeaks gave that information to the world (and the enemies) under a banner of freedom of information and THAT is what threatens the lives of all of those operatives AND allies AND their families. This is not some silly argument about if war is bad or if the USA is not just as guilty as any other military when it comes to people getting killed in a war zone - it is about treasonous acts that compromise the safety of hidden operatives to the enemy.

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The leaks that threaten American forces in the Afghanistan war are specifically information about covert operatives working for and with the USA in the war - these people are being outed publicly by this information for those who actually read it - it is our soldiers and our allies undercover in the war who are put in danger by the information.

./sigh

The truth is international newspapers have been commenting over the latest wiki leaks since it was released (Not just JT posters would you believe). Nevertheless, I agree that the leaks (if accurate) have pretty much compromised US-Nato intels... not only that but it also diminishes the credibility of allied forces abroad...

One thing though, the wiki disclosures beg more questions than answers-- whether top US officials were involved (we wanted to know), to heighten tensions with both N. Korea and the Iranians, or not.... the people deserves explanations....

These are serious matters and I applaud governments (including Aust'l) that already called for inquiries over the wikiLeaks.

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One thing though, the wiki disclosures beg more questions than answers-- whether top US officials were involved (we wanted to know), to heighten tensions with both N. Korea and the Iranians, or not.... the people deserves explanations....

I'm sure with North Korea lobbying long range missiles in the general direction of the U.S and exploding a nuclear weapon every now and then,that along with sinking a South Korean warship, along with the Iranians hellbent on developing a nuclear weapon that the U.S had to find a way to "heighten tensions" with those two nations.

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I'm sure with North Korea lobbying long range missiles in the general direction of the U.S and exploding a nuclear weapon every now and then

It's premature to even think of MaRV when discussing North Korean capabilities. I'm sure even the Chinese haven't fine-tuned their techs yet to rival US (or even Russian) nuclear abilities.

Nevertheless, as I pretty much said above, some governments (including Aust'l) already launched their official probes on these so-called leaks, and I applaud 'em.

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The only one I really see pushing the North Korean and Iranian angles is you, jr. If the leak was meant to start beating the war drums I think you'd have to agree that it did a pretty dismal job.

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The only one I really see pushing the North Korean and Iranian angles is you, jr.

I did mention the fact that my gov't in Australia have pretty much launched a probed concerning the matter didn't I? (Along with other countries) As these so-called leaks are clearly inconsistent to any country's national security... Would you agree then-- for credibility's sake-- that every angle should be scrutinized?

If the leak was meant to start beating the war drums-- and failed, then the people still have the right to know whether someone inside were aware of it....

But it seems to me that your idea of national security is one of disorder and extensive incompetence-- perhaps you've been misreading things all along (Shame since you've been posting longer than me LOL)

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The Times of London documetns why there is innocent blood on the hands of the Daniel Ellsberg wannabes in this affair.

"In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, The Times of London found the names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing detailed intelligence to U.S. forces. Their villages are given for identification and also, in many cases, their fathers' names."

"The Afghan Government has reacted with horror to the volume of information contained in the files."

But I predict some folks here will just dismiss this.

"The Times of London? That sir, is just another Murdoch ragsheet!"

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sailwind said: I'm sure with North Korea lobbying long range missiles in the general direction of the U.S and exploding a nuclear weapon every now and then,

You mean straight into the ground? Dude, that post is clear evidence of your paranoia. America has launched more missles in the "general direction" of NK than you could dream while high on LSD. Dude, get a grip.

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You mean straight into the ground? Dude, that post is clear evidence of your paranoia. America has launched more missles in the "general direction" of NK than you could dream while high on LSD. Dude, get a grip.

Dude!

You don't need a whole lot of 'aiming' involved when the top of one of those things has a nuke on top.

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"In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, The Times of London found the names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing detailed intelligence to U.S. forces. Their villages are given for identification and also, in many cases, their fathers' names."

"The Afghan Government has reacted with horror to the volume of information contained in the files."

EXACTLY THE POINT I WAS MAKING BEFORE. It is not about any cover-ups that need to be exposed to the public regarding what the US government has been funding, following, or failing to disclose about casualties of war at all. It IS treason.. there is no other word for it. WikiLeaks exposed names and locations of military agents and allied agents operating covertly in the Afghan war. They literally handed a hit-list to the enemy. Nobody can tell me that undermining your own government war effort in the middle of a war and stupidly exposing the covert operatives, their location, and their civilian families to the enemy is protected speech or excusable because the average person back at home 'needs to know'.

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Hundreds of innocent Afghans(people who only wanted a better life for themselves and loved ones) will die horrible unspeakable deaths.Shame, shame on Wikileaks and the Australian "peace warrior" Assange.

" _The names of the traitors to radical Islam will be duly transmitted to the avengers who will then go out severally into the night on their missions of revenge. Recently Radio Netherlands described what Afghans who are suspected by the Taliban can expect to endure. The Taliban have cut off the hands of construction workers who build government-funded projects "

"_Yet the dead are the lucky ones. The more unfortunate may wind up in a torture chamber similar to one found by Coldstream Guards. It features such amenties as chains to hang prisoners from walls. Not that the inmates would want to walk on the floor: that features broken glass. And there is limb amputation, kneecapping with an electric drill, eye gouging, bone-breaking or ritual rape to smash the will. Where the offender is not himself available punishment will be visited on his relatives."

Richard Fernandez

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Excellent post MisterCreosote and Mikanojo.

Still, we won't hear their cries and screams as more whole families and maybe even villages die.

And remind me never to trust the West again, oh, and any computer-based system with my name in it.

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I think we're seeing the limits of the "I'm anti-war" blanket that some people wrap themselves in. In a way it reminds me of abortion doctor killers. They think their cause is so just that any action they take is credible.

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You don't need a whole lot of 'aiming' involved when the top of one of those things has a nuke on top.

More paranoia! If NK can even make a nuke they would have to move it by ship it would be so heavy!

So anyway, I ordered my blowback days ago! Where is it?

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Mikanojo said: Nobody can tell me that undermining your own government war effort in the middle of a war and stupidly exposing the covert operatives, their location, and their civilian families to the enemy is protected speech or excusable because the average person back at home 'needs to know'.

The average person back home is the one who left home to fight the war. The average person STILL back home knows someone serving. If the government had been more forthcoming, and stopped trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the public, this leak would not have happened.

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Heheheh, Al Qaeda now has an accurate picture how the Allies conduct war and how to better operate and plan an attack on civilian buildings like, say, a packed Sydney Opera House of the Ally Australia.

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In a way it reminds me of abortion doctor killers. They think their cause is so just that any action they take is credible.

Flame much?! LOL

Heheheh, Al Qaeda now has an accurate picture how the Allies conduct war and how to better operate and plan an attack on civilian buildings like, say, a packed Sydney Opera House of the Ally Australia.

Oh thanks, my brother performed there as a high school kid... I surely am will be disappointed if your scenario comes true.

Strange though, because if I'm actually advising my government over these leaks-- and I'm not-- my first inclination would be to fret over the security of Australian forces serving overseas and the credibility of NATO intels...

The leaks sure didn't compromised our homeland defense... but it would Australia's capability to serve more nimbly in Afghanistan and elsewhere...

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MistWizard: If the government had been more forthcoming, and stopped trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the public, this leak would not have happened.

With what, exactly? Publishing the names of the Afghans helping us?

I can't imagine that you're talking about civilian casualties, because it's probably the most reported thing from Afghanistan. The US has put in severe restrictions on how the battles are fought now. Some are even questioning if they've gone too far. Is that what this leak has "exposed"?

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jraustralia: The leaks sure didn't compromised our homeland defense... but it would Australia's capability to serve more nimbly in Afghanistan and elsewhere...

There are Aussie troops in Afghanistan?

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There are Aussie troops in Afghanistan?

Classic, oh classic.... Let's leave it at that LOL

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SuperLib said: With what, exactly?

Exactly? Is it not bad enough that they have been prettying up this war that is going worse than they will allow us to know directly?? Why do I have to infer that from the 9 YEARS we have been there and the fact that the Taliban have moved into Pakistan?? We heard about our soldiers dying in helicopter crashes. So often we heard "mechanical failure" was to blame. Thanks to Wikileaks we now know the Taliban have been using heat seeking missiles, a little fact you might want to consider if you are thinking of joining up as a helicopter pilot. I would like to protect the people who helped us too, but not bad enough to allow the government to without information that could cost a young man his life.

It is OBVIOUS that the withholding of this information is to artificially prop up war support in a place we should have left long ago. Every day we linger is another day OUR people die in friendly fire incidents that get covered up in order to get another day in Afghanistan. I cannot say who or why, but my mind tends to think FOLLOW THE MONEY...ummm...IF YOU CAN!

One of the most amazing things about you Super is your total lack of anger about this stuff.

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One of the most amazing things about you Super is your total lack of anger about this stuff.

Because like most so-called conservatives out there, SuperLib is just playing a role.... they're what Pat Buchanan calls the 'Amen' crowd... look it up :)

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Mist....sorry.....but I just don't agree. You case for a massive cover-up isn't very compelling. And ending it all with a "follow the money" phrase is something you don't want to do. I can promise you that rational people see that as a massive red flag when that comes out of someone's mouth. It immediately puts you on the fringe.

Besides, why argue with me? jraustralia said he thinks the leak is a planned operation to link Al Queda with Iran. Seems like you two should be debating each other since obviously one of you has to be wrong for the other to be right.

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jraustralia: Classic, oh classic.... Let's leave it at that LOL

When is the Australian report about the leak going to be published? Can you post links when it does? I'm sure quite a few people will want to read it.

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If the people of Afghanistan are compromised, then there is no more hope, and no more reason to be there.

To hell with, quote: "the leaks could endanger U.S. counterterror networks in the Afghan region, and damage information sharing with U.S. allies."

We were there to stave off the bloodshed and help usher in an era of peace for a democratic Islamic Afghanistan. That was the one clear rationale. If the ordinary independent-thinking people are taken out, then there will be no alternative to the Taliban. What an idiotic waste.

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jraustralia said he thinks the leak is a planned operation to link Al Queda with Iran.

Ho hohoho, don't involve me here... Mist seems to be responding to you NOT ME...

And as for what you think I might have asserted, some posters have already provided links from Murdoch newspapers over my doubts... scroll it up, just in case :)

The inquiry had been announced the following week these leaks surfaced, wouldn't know how long it'll take given there's an election here.... usually months :(

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If the people of Afghanistan are compromised, then there is no more hope, and no more reason to be there.

I believe the average person in Afghanistan just wants to get on with their lives. Without the U.S or the West in their country or with their own barbaric Taliban ruling over them again.

The reason to be there is to support that average person in Afghanistan to stand up to the Taliban, and stand up so hard that that we can leave.

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SuperLib said: Mist....sorry.....but I just don't agree.

You would not believe how little I seek your agreement.

You case for a massive cover-up isn't very compelling.

That might have something to do with the fact that I said "prettying up the war" and it was YOU who said "massive cover-up".

And ending it all with a "follow the money" phrase is something you don't want to do.

I think a rational person would remember the 8 BILLION dollars that disappeared from the Pentagon. The same article here at JT said money meant for Afghanistan was also improperly managed, but no amount given. If someone is putting me in the fridge for suggesting the money and the prettying up of the war might be related, I think its the IRRATIONAL people. Oh, yeah, I know the reasons of martial pride (which some confuse with patriotism) and an inability to even conceive of defeat or failure also figure into the prettying up of the war, but it is a decidedly IRRATIONAL position to think money does not figure in.

As for jraustralia's position, please note that I have neither denied nor supported it. I should pay more attention I suppose but I have not dug into it enough to decide or even comment. If I did I would just be talking from misguided national pride, and that would be STUPID.

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sailwind said: The reason to be there is to support that average person in Afghanistan to stand up to the Taliban, and stand up so hard that that we can leave.

The average person in Afghanistan needs to stand up for themselves. Its not just the Taliban, but the warlords and their groups too that are brutal. Afghans need to wipe their own butts. But frankly, they never will and I knew that from the start.

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Mikanojo, just tell us why the military never told us heat seeking missles were used by the Taliban. Go for it. Can you do that? I am sure you have a perfectly good explanation. And a pre-emptive tip is NOT to say it does not matter, because if it didn't matter we would not need a leak to find out!

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The leak is not about weapons or about money and trying to change the subject is a silly tactic. Read the article. Learn what you are talking about. WikiLeaks committed a horrible crime against the US military and against the Afghan allies operating covertly in the war. Trying to change the subject to outright lies about supposed cover-ups that were not covered up in the first place does not in any way excuse the truth of what has actually happened.

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"Intelligence officials, past and present, are raising concerns that the WikiLeaks.org revelations could endanger U.S. counterterror networks in the Afghan region" "People in Afghanistan or Pakistan who have worked with American intelligence agents or the military against the Taliban or al-Qaida may be at risk following the disclosure of thousands of once-secret U.S. military documents, former and current officials said." "They are trying to limit the damage to the military’s human intelligence network that has been built up over a decade inside Afghanistan and Pakistan. Such figures range from Afghan village elders who have worked behind the scenes with U.S. troops to militants who have become double-agents." Now does everyone agree on what the actual article is talking about?

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Quoting MIstWizard:

Mikanojo, just tell us why the military never told us heat seeking missles were used by the Taliban. Go for it. Can you do that?

As far as the Taliban using heat-seeking missiles (i will guess that you are referring to downed US helicopters?) There has been news and video and even specials about it on the History channel. That the Taliban has weapons and uses them in war with US has NEVER been a secret to ANYONE. What WAS a secret, before the WikiLeaks leak.. was the identitiy of our allies in Afghanistan and Pakistan who were HELPING the US. Now that those people have been compromised there will be no more help from them, and those brave people and their civilian families are all NEEDLESSLY, STUPIDLY put at terrible risk because of the WikiLeaks act of treason.

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Mikanojo said: Now does everyone agree on what the actual article is talking about?

Go ahead and call me childish, but making a decision based on half the evidence presented in the article is the act of an irresponsible fool. I am not going to let the military or the press just dictate the outlook on this leak. I agree that our informants should be protected, but more important is not to allow the government and military to keep unnecessary secrets from us. They did this before, they do it during, and they will do it after. People like you either have no respect for the public or too much for authority.

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Mikanojo said: The leak is not about weapons or about money and trying to change the subject is a silly tactic. Read the article.

The article is not the leak. The leak is the leak. The leak contains information about Pakistan funding and arming the Taliban. Pakistan, our ally that gets touted over and over in the press!

WikiLeaks committed a horrible crime against the US military and against the Afghan allies operating covertly in the war.

So the article alleges. But the US military and government have been committing a horrible crime against its own soldiers and us. Two wrongs don't make a right, but the leak has wrongs and rights to it.

Trying to change the subject to outright lies about supposed cover-ups that were not covered up

Answer my question about the heat seeking missles and large number of mechanical failures reported. When did you first hear the Taliban had heat seekers? Also, when did you first hear about the Shinwar Shooting? The Nangar Khel incident? No. Don't do a web search. I want to know what you know without looking.

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Actually MistWizard, it is you who should do a web search. You would have already seen that there have been reports in the news on NBC and CNBC Special reports and war updates. The Afghanistan war has been in the news many times. Your claims of cover-ups are what is lacking ANY evidence sir. The article and what the people in the article are 'alleging' is what i continue to write about, while you began first by making false claims of cover-ups involving civilian casualties of war, then politics, then money, and now supposed cover-ups involving what weapons the Taliban has been using is really what the US government is upset about. Only you sir - with not one single shred of evidence to support any of your claims. I have written about the article; you have written about your own conspiracies. I have all of the evidence that supports what i have written. you have your delusions.

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Fine Mikanojo, don't answer my questions. Just keep asking me to prove something wasn't there yesterday by doing a web search.

Yeah, I know civilian deaths are being reported, but that does not mean they all are. For example, Shum Khan who was shot while running away for not obeying orders to stop. Turns out he was deaf and mute. But of course, you knew that before the leak, right? Its been up on NBC and CNBC before right?

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with not one single shred of evidence to support any of your claims.

Claims? I offered possibilities. You can take them or leave them. As for the incidents, I cannot prove they were not reported before. Its a logical impossibility. So I ask you if heard about the incidents, because I didn't and I wonder why. It is possible I just wasn't paying attention. Were you? Anyone? A six kilometer rampage where marines shot teenage girls in fields, motorists in their cars, old men out for a walk. 19 dead and fifty wounded. No soldiers charged or disciplined. How did I miss that one? Can you even name the incident without seaching the web? Ah, heck, I know you will just ignore my questions and CHANGE THE SUBJECT!

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Claims? I offered possibilities. You can take them or leave them.

Eh, I think most would probably leave them. Mikanojo sums it up better than I could.

In all reality the leak is turning on those who created it. People were probably expecting some juicy/shocking details but probably now realize that there's just not that much meat on the bone. In the end it's probably going to hurt more good people than catch bad ones.

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MistWizard you need to find the subject.. Seriously.. read the JT article and try commenting about that instead of trying to make it some thing that it is not. I will be gracious enough until the JT censors wake up and point out that the man you mentioned, Shum Khan was wounded by soldiers when they entered his village of Malekshay in March of 2007. He ran and was ordered to stop by coalition forces, and when he did stop he was brought down by a shot to his leg, which wounded him. Shum Khan was later compensated by the coalition forces for their mistake in the only way that they had available to them at the time which was to give supplies and food to Khan AND the leaders of his village so that they would be distributed to the local people. Now is that really an example of some dark CIA cover-up? NO. Is it really an evil regime-changing plot enacted upon innocent people by coalition forces? No. It is 1 example of what happens in a war. And actually, honestly, the coalition forces acted with restraint and gave recompense, which shows remorse. But MistWizard would have us believe it is something much more than it really is.

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My, my Mikanojo. You sure know a lot about Shum Khan off the top of your head. Now I wonder if you can answer the questions about the 6 km long rampage?

And sorry, but no, I am not going to let you control the debate by way of rejecting relevant information to evaluating the leak. We agree that the release of the names and other information of informants is a terrible thing, so its a moot point. The question is if other things balance it out, and no, the Shum Khan incident does not stand alone.

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Balance it out? So then your argument is that the other things mentioned in the leak, that apparently are all sensational incredible revelations that war is bad and expensive (to you) in some way excuse the harm done by outing the US allies who have risked their lives working as counter-agents in their own country, trying to END the war that you claim to also hate? If that is your excuse for trying to change the thread from what the article actually speaks about into your own anti-America/CIA/war/whatever agenda then you are just simply wrong. Nothing to debate about it. The war in Afghanistan has gone on for many years sir and there have been many many reports about the horrible deaths, the threats faced by soldiers (like the weapons the enemy is using) and of course the expense as the war budget has needed to be voted on again and again as the war has continued. No sir.. the revelations are not even news at this point. War is bad war means death war costs money - surprise. If that were all that was in the leak then it would hardly be news at all - it would maybe only help to collaborate some of the things that others have already said! The serious matter here remains, and that is what the point of the article is talking about - WikiLeaks literally posted a hit-list of counter-agents who had been helping the coalition to end the war. Now they and their families are endangered.. now those people can NO LONGER assist in the effort to end the war.. it is not about you and your conspiracy theories.. it is about some website leaking sensitive war-related documents to the public DURING A WAR that gave aid to the enemy and has put civilian lives (the families of the counter-agents) at risk. THAT sir IS TREASON.

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Mikanojo, I imagine you have not been this upset since the Valerie Plame affair! I was pretty angry about that myself. Reason being that REVENGE does not balance it out.

Its not the deaths and its not the threats. Its the LIES and the DECEPTION. We get lied to going in, we get lied to during, and we will get lied to after. While being lied to, we cannot make proper decisions. You seem to be asserting that the lies are insignificant. If so, then why the lies?

now those people can NO LONGER assist in the effort to end the war

Who says they all assisted?

The thing is, the war was unwinnable from the start anyway. Every death we were involved in was useless. If we had honesty from the start, everyone to eachother and themselves, we might not be in this mess right now. I am going to be for honesty and disclosure before I am going to be for propping up liars in a useless war, you can bet the bank on that. You seem to hold the opinion that the American public is just too immature to handle certain information (aside from who the informants are of course). I say, no way. If the government can't be up front, then we got no place fighting for them.

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Its not the deaths and its not the threats. Its the LIES and the DECEPTION.

The deaths and the threats are real. The "lies and deception" is a overblown characterization of something that just isn't happening to the extent that you claim it is with your anecdotal evidence that is often overblown as well.

You're against the war so any leak, whether it be justified or not, is probably a good thing in your eyes.

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The major lies and deception comes in the form of how so many Americans lie to and deceive themselves.

The very Afghan war came about as a result of the Taliban gaining power -- blowback from the heavy U.S. support for the mujahideen fighters (who morphed into the Taliban and Al Qaeda) in their jihad against the Soviets.

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that just isn't happening to the extent that you claim

You do realize there are classifications above "secret" don't you? Sure, the U.S. government is being completely honest with us and has nothing but respect for the public and their judgement.

I am not sure to "what extent" I claimed anything. But I could just as easily shoot back that the blowback is not to the extent you want us to believe.

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Sure, the U.S. government is being completely honest with us and has nothing but respect for the public and their judgement.

Enough with the emotional outbursts. I don't have to trust everything the US government says to be able to disagree with your fringe thinking.

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SuperLib said: Enough with the emotional outbursts.

Its called sarcasm Super. Look it up.

I don't have to trust everything the US government says to be able to disagree with your fringe thinking.

I am happy just to hear you say you don't completely trust the government even if its in your own lukewarm non-commital way. But yeah, I do hope one day you might learn to be angry about being lied to for "apparently nothing", then go on to think, what else are they hiding?

Seems to me the government learned well from its "mistakes" during our involvement in Vietnam. The public didn't. But your heart seems to bleed for the government?

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MisterCreosote said: You already demonstrated your ignorance about US politics (you admitted you did not know America is a constitutional republic)

Wow! And you accuse ME of having an agenda! The above is an awesome display of agenda driven ignorance such as I have never shown! While I supported the greater significance of the fact the U.S. is a constitutional republic, that NOT exclusive to being a democracy. The U.S. is both a constitutional republic AND a representative democracy. I used the short-hand "democracy", which, being old school, even I don't like. But the fact is, the people don't have much power. Even so, I STILL think they should be informed because it will be them spilling their guts in Afghanistan.

You might think I am off topic bringing up examples, but what is your problem with comparisons and learning from history? Forgetting history only serves the selfish and the vain, who would like to trick us with the same tomfoolery over and over again.

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Mikanojo said: the acts committed by WikiLeaks are treason.

Wikileaks is an international org, ergo, it can't be guilty of treason.

it is the information that was leaked to the enemies of America that is important in this matter.

I am NOT an enemy of America. The info was leaked TO THE WORLD. If wish to value temporal information over the general idea of keeping government honest, that is your perogative.

why ARE you continuing to lie to everyone here and claim there is deception and conspiracy?

Are you saying there is no deception and conspiracy within the U.S. government and military? Please answer that. I want to make this absolutely clear.

And a side question: Are you aware that WWII related documents are STILL being kept from us? In 50 years when some documents are released, I might be able to tell you more about Afghanistan, so if what I said is not enough for you, please be patient, oh ye of misplaced faith.

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@MistWizard: prove even ONE case of misinformation that was given to the US public regarding the war in Afghanistan that WikiLeaks brought into the light. Even one. The truth is that none of the things you have been going on and on and on about are even part of the JT article. You want to use things that happened in other wars to make claims about this one. You want to excuse the leaks that have needlessly endangered so many counter-agents, and their civilian families because of your personal allegations of cover-ups that you simply have no evidence to support. You are trying to balance the lives of our allies and their families against claims of cover-up and conspiracy that do not even exist, and when that it pointed out to you, you speak of events that happened in the Vietnam war and World War II. You try to dismiss the lives of the allied embedded counter-intelligence people by asserting that not all of them were really helping(!?) "Who says they all assisted?" you wrote.. you simply have no proof of the cover-ups you keep screaming about and writing about past cover-ups in other wars is not winning you any points in this debate that you yourself created sir. Nobody is blind in this except the person who refuses to see what everyone else is telling them - you do not have a winnable argument by claiming that the information WikiLeaks exposed in any way excuses the life threatening situation that has been created by that act. The enemy has been given a list of people who have been working within their own villages to aid the US.. speaking of the US for a moment and its government, what would the US government do if it were handed a list of counter-agents, spies, and informants working in their own country against the US? Now take away the US legal system - that is what all of those people are in danger of now sir.. because of WikiLeaks. ANd you should not mislead readers by claiming only that WIkiLeaks is an international organization - WikiLeaks is based in Sweden, an ally of the US, and more, they are guilty of violating their own guidelines for what WikiLeaks calls "Principled leaking" by endangering the lives of the hidden counter-agents and informants, as well as their civilian families.

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68 percent of the Afghan people want US troops to remain in their country. And that stat comes from CNN.

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Former CIA official Paul Pillar described what he called the coming chill in the U.S. intelligence community, which had been pushed into sharing information across agencies, in the aftermath of the intelligence failures that led to 9/11.

So, in essence, these leaks primarily serve the interests of those members of the intelligence community who no longer want to share information across agencies. Means and motive are not clearly aligned.

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Means and motive are not clearly aligned.

This should read: "Means and motive are now clearly aligned.

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Mikanojo said: prove even ONE case of misinformation that was given to the US public regarding the war in Afghanistan that WikiLeaks brought into the light. Even one.

You are as irrational as ever. I already cited the fact that they were not reporting Taliban use of heat seekers. There is your one.

Now show me one case of blowback. Even one.

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@MistWizard, your claim regarding heatseekers is false sir and it remains false still. Sebastian Junger in fact wrote a book about it "War" and spoke of heat seeking ground-to-air missiles being used by the Taliban. CNN reported on it before the last war budget was agreed on in USA as well as the History channel speaking about the Afghanistan war, including a special that recently aired again about when the US was seeking to find Osama BinLaden, who was hiding in Afghanistan at the time. So your claim about heat-seekers being a cover-up is false. Do you have any actual cover-up that WikiLeaks exposed?

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7910482/Wikileaks-Afghanistan-Taliban-used-heat-seeker-missiles-against-Nato-helicopter.html

At least three instances of covering up Taliban use of heat seekers there. Still waiting for that one case of blowback.

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MistWizard.. the links that you claim is a leak is not even news.. now that you seem to be using the interent, try looking information regarding the Battle of Tora Bora.. it took place in Afghanistan in 2001. Perhaps it would be a shock to you that the Taliban was using heat seeking missles then and that it was already in the news. So not a leak at all then is it.

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Mikanojo, this is just said. I did not say that NO Taliban use of heatseekers were ever reported. But obviously, some incidents were covered up. You asked for one and I gave you three. If they were used in Tora Bora in 2001 its nothing to do with covering up their use in 2007 three times.

You suggest I used the internet? How about you trying reading the article I linked you to?

And this is at least the THIRD time I have asked you for an example of blowback. Anyone else would know to be embarrassed by now, but here you continue.

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@MistWizard, you only gave 3 examples of what you claimed was cover-up but in fact was not. What you are asking for is what is not yet happened because we have not yet seen the outcome of the leak, at least it has not been made public yet. What the article refers to as blowback is actually 2 things, first the very real possibility that because the leak exposed hidden allies of the US in the war, that now those allies will no longer be able to help us, will need instead to go into hiding with their families to avoid capture and death at the hands of the Taliban - all that has been made public so far was a statement by President Obama saying that those people will be receiving all the aid that he can send them 2 get them to safety - so you are asking for evidence of things that have not yet happened. The 2nd 'blowback' is near the very bottom of the JT article where the man is commenting that now because of the leak, that security will become more important than exposure again, that this situation will 'make the pendulum swing back'. Since there have been no more neu leaks from WikiLeaks regarding the war that is apparently true - but again you are asking to prove a negative. There is no reason for me to feel any embarrassment sir; it is not me who is acting as a fool.

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Caution: the Time front cover may not be suitable for all ages.

Afghan Women and the Return of the Taliban @http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2007238,00.html

A story about the woman who the Taliban disfigured her face. This is just one in many that would continue to happened when the U.S. troops leave Afghanistan.

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@Skipbeat: that image is heartbreaking. That is what WikiLeaks should be 'exposing'. But sadly that terrible disfigurement is not a cover-up either. It is just one more sick example of a GOOD reason for the war. There is evil in this world being done by people.. and people are certainly real enough; regardless of your faith or philosophy or morality or lack of those things. War should always be the last resort, but that time DOES come. We all seek peace but at what cost? Letting such acts as what the Taliban does continue? Iya. There must be an end to the Taliban and if it takes money and takes lives and takes the horror of war to make that change happen then it is still a right and noble thing to do.

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