U.S. demands Israel cancel Jerusalem building plan

The annexation of East Jerusalem is a move like would be done by Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. People and their lands are not pawns to be annexed. Cut off all military aid to Israel...now. American money should not support this kind of tyranny.

"Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League, said he was “shocked and stunned at the administration’s tone and public dressing down of Israel on the issue of future building in Jerusalem.”

The above comment and the WH's actions are clearly not on the same page.

Mr. Foxton is obviously upset that the administration called out the Israelis.

The WH is clearly perturbed with Israel's announcement that it was going to build more houses as it will stall the peace process negotiations, as the Palistinians made very clear.

With that in mind, the voices of the pro-Israel lobby can effectively be disregarded - in terms of the peace process.

“It’s hard to see how spending a weekend condemning Israel for a zoning decision in its capital city amounts to a positive step towards peace,” said Sen Sam Brownback, R-Kan. He complained that the administration was attacking a “staunch ally and friend” when it should be focusing on the threat posed by Iran’s nuclear problem."

In reality, it’s hard to see how Israel's zoning decision in its capital city amounts to a positive step towards peace.

Sen. Brownback clearly doesn't understand that Israel's zoning decision is completely against the aims of the peace process, as the Palistinians have illustrated by refusing to negotiate further unless this zoning decision is reversed.

Also great to see a U.S. administration that finally has the guts to call out the Israeli leadership. The previous administration was more than happy to lean over backwards to the Israelis and play little doggie to what is effectively a nuclear armed terrorist state in the heart of the ME.

The Israelis need a good slapping around the ears - and they got it.

Pity the GOP's policy toward Israel one of near-total submission.

Obama is doing the right thing. Had not past US administrations sponsored israeli foreign policy, which has no respect for anything, New York would have its two towers today, and you know the rest.

Had not past US administrations sponsored israeli foreign policy, which has no respect for anything, New York would have its two towers today, and you know the rest.

A very simplistic, and very wrong, assumption.

If the Islamic countries in the area really cared about the plight of the Palestinians and were sincere about making peace, there would have been a Palestinian state long ago.

This entire palestinian movement is aimed at carving up and shrinking the State of Israel as much as possible. It's not about an independent state or a homeland at all. The Current US administration is weak and bumbling in its foreign policy, and Obama seems to be a bit pro-muslim. We are entering a period of foreign policy disasters with this administration.

No, it's not wrong, Perspective.

What's really wrong is your, well, perspective. You are blaming the victims who had their land invaded. You are out of focus.

Obama seems to be a bit pro-muslim.

If by pro-Muslim you mean 'having a bit more balanced view towards the mideast' then I would agree.

I like how Israel is referred to as the US's strongest mideast ally. I would say nothing could be farther from the truth. It's more like a client state. The US does so much for Israel yet Israel does nothing for the US but cause headache after headache.

The US needs more proportional and balanced ties with Israel. Giving them heavy criticism when they do wrong is a good start to that.

Prove me wrong...don't just say I'm wrong and think that will suffice...

No, actually I'm a pretty focused guy. You can argue all you want about whose land it is, go back some time and it was the Israeli's land. But what is important now is the realization that Israel isn't going anywhere; at the present time, the BEST course of action for all is to find a way to make a Palestinian state that can co-exist with an Israeli one.

What do people here think is going to happen once Israel locates all of the Iranian nuclear facilities and has credible intel that Iran is close to completing a bomb?

I think most would agree that there's enough blame to go around all sides with regards to the Israli-Palestinian situation - that being said, it is refreshing to see the Obama adminstration use some "realpolitik" with regards to Israel. The annoucement on the settlements and the fact it came with the US Vice President in-country go far beyond the boundaries of how nations that are friends treat one another. It seems the statement that former Sec State James Baker said back in 1990 still rings true - Israel can call the White House when it's serious about peace.....

Then here is some more blame to go around:

"The Malam report brings declassified videos that show how Hamas used civilians as human shields and deployed its weaponry and command centers inside civilian homes."

"The Obama administration’s fierce denunciation of Israel last week has ignited a firestorm in Congress and among powerful pro-Israel interest groups who say the criticism of America’s top Mideast ally was misplaced."

How is that? Israel snubbed the US and is damaging peace talks, therefore rightfully criticizing Israel is not at all off the mark or misplaced. I suppose these people think Palestinians should be criticized for Israel's sudden announcement while Biden was there?? I believe we're only moments away from hearing, from the same people, how the US has suddenly become 'anti-Semetic'.

You can argue all you want about whose land it is

I just wanted to show you where US is wrong. US should have backed the state of Israel AND a state of Palestina, back in 1949, instead of only a pro-Israel instance.

the BEST course of action for all is to find a way to make a Palestinian state that can co-exist with an Israeli one.

Now your lens is clean and you are focused. eheh.

What do people here think is going to happen once Israel locates all of the Iranian nuclear facilities and has credible intel that Iran is close to completing a bomb?

By now, Mossad must have enough info on that. I guess, though, there won't be any war this time. Iran is a big country, and there are a lot of allies backing Ahmadinejad. A US-Israel versus Iran wan would spread to other countries - do you doubt Chavez wouldn't be more than happy to take a ride on this train (against US) and start a local war against Colombia (who has a US base) that would surely infect the Spanish speaking world, for instance? -and that is not what US economy needs right now.

LostinNagoya -- gotta agree. Israel has had a disproportionate role in U.S. foreign/defense policies for way too long. About time some balance was restored.

I find it difficult tn believe the Israeli president did not know about the housing announcement. I also think Obama's team made a good judgement call. Israel's announcement is putting the ME peace process - an important goal of the U.S. administration - into reverse; I think there's no argument here. Had the U.S. administration not called out Israel, the Palestinians would likely have concluded the U.S. simply wasn't serious about peace (aka the bush administration). Clinton's actions at the very least will keep the Palestinians engaged and the peace process alive.

I don't really care about all this. To me, its just Obama making yet another terrible decision. Thus far, he's Carter lite. Give him a few more years, and he may well surpass Carter as the worst President in US history.

Another reason I don't care, is reading through this board, almost every single poster is easily identifiable as anti-Israeli. Its hard to take you guys seriously when you are so completely blind you can't see that there actually is another side. When you try to claim that Israel is alone at fault, and should apologize for existing, and according to some, just commit mass suicide (different thread that a poster referenced Masada), well theres simply no reasoning with people like this. So feel free to espouse your little hate filled viewpoints. Feel warm and fuzzy in the knowledge that Obama supports your anti-Israel position.

Molenir, your claim that some of the above posters are 'anti-Israel' is so cheap and shallow it's almost laughable. Do you agree or not that Israel's settlement building announcement sets the ME peace process back? IMO, had the U.S. administration NOT blasted Israel, the peace process may well have dissolved. And who benefits from that? And your anti-Israeli claim is ludicrous beyond belief. If the peace process reaches a successful conclusion, it should at least stop the rocket and bombing attacks, which is in both sides' interests. In that sense, being pro-peace process automatically - perhaps implicitly - makes you pro-Israel. Your attitude in fact shows you up to be anti-Israel, 1 in that you admitted you don't care, and 2 in that you appear to implicitly think Israel's purposeful aggravation of Palestine is somehow a good thing. That said, thanks for your anti-Israel post. It definitely was amusing and clearly underlined your anti-Israel views.

The Obama Administration is pushing people around again. Just like they did to Japan, Korea, Canada, and countless other allies. Is Obama trying to alienate our closest friends?

Israel do what you want.

Obama cut all ties with Israel. Cut all funds and military aid. Go play with your own money building and bombing, not US money. < :-)

Israel didn't snub the US, Israel snubbed the Obama administration, which is clearly anti-Israel

jeez---how many times have we been down this road!Is anybody serious here?

By the way MrUSA, how has Obama pushed around "Japan, Korea, Canada, and countless other allies"? Please tell me how Obama forced them to do anything.

We need to quit giving Israel a single penny. They're big boys and girls. They want our money, to hell with them.

Go do your building, but not with US money. < :-)

MrUSA, if - as you claim - Israel is one of America's 'closest friends,' could you please post a bullet point list of the 'friendly' things Israel has done for America lately? If you find this request difficult, posters could easily assume you are simply mouthing talking points and little else. Looking forward to reading your list.

could you please post a bullet point list of the 'friendly' things Israel has done for America lately?

Israel has been loyal to America for its entire existence. It's a mutually beneficial relationship that provides Israel with protection and America with a presence in the Middle East region. Their unequivocal loyalty and friendship is reason enough to protect the innocent citizens of Israel from the tyranny of their neighbors. I don't need to provide you with a list of things they've done for us - that's not what friendships are about. Don't be ridiculous. If Obama keeps criticizing our friends, we will soon be left without any allies.

Call me slow, but I just realized that the pro-Israel lobby is precisely that - pro-Israel. They are NOT pro-peace process as a peace agreement would involve ceding land to Palestine. But considering a peace agreement would have the greatest chance of stopping Hamas rockets raining down on Israel and increase safety and security for Israelies, I would have to conclude that the pro-Israel lobby and self proclaimed pro-Israel people out there are - very ironically - actually anti-Israel, as the enforcement of their beliefs will never bring about peace. Which could well explain why there never has been peace.

US should have backed the state of Israel AND a state of Palestina, back in 1949" Considering that no one there claimed to have been a Palestinan back then and that the issue was with the other arab nations, not the Palestinians and how conveniently you leave out Britain, the Ottomans, the Jordanians, the Syrians, and the Egyptians. Or are you really one of those that believe that no Jews were there at that time?

Many of you guys are going way out on a limb to cause some sort of hatred for the Jews. That's what you are doing. You've all went beyond Israel and sorry smith, those postings by your boys are anti-semtic.

Aday has it right though "Go do your building, but not with US money" then there is nothing we should do. Let them fight it out as I can foresee a very hostile act coming in the very near future. But this time, when they fight it out let the victor, which I doubt would be Israel this time, claim his land and the loser leaves. Nothing short of this is going to bring peace to the area. Oh, will the Muslims led countries that will come to the Palestinians' aid allow the big numbers of them to remain non-Muslim? No once that happens, do you think the Muslim world would say enough is enough and peace be on earth and let's live happily ever after or would they try to take it further?

Molenir, your claim that some of the above posters are 'anti-Israel' is so cheap and shallow it's almost laughable. Do you agree or not that Israel's settlement building announcement sets the ME peace process back? IMO, had the U.S. administration NOT blasted Israel, the peace process may well have dissolved. And who benefits from that?

Sushi, East Jerusalem is a dead issue. Whining about it, and complaining does not advance peace. What would advance peace from the Israeli side, is for the US to acknowledge that Jerusalem will not be repartitioned. That would get Israel to the table. Putting pressure on the Pals to keep whats left of the West Bank would force them to the table. Continually bringing up East Jerusalem which the Pals will not get, doesn't help anything. Making a huge issue of it, doesn't help either.

If you want peace, there are 2 sides. Each of which has things they will not budge on. Jerusalem is that thing for Israel. You want to insist that they give up everything the Pals want. And that just not going to happen.

They are NOT pro-peace process as a peace agreement would involve ceding land to Palestine

The Jews have suffered enough in the past 100 years. They do not have to give anything to Palestine.

You want to insist that they give up everything the Pals want.

The world insists that Israel gives up things that belong to the Palestinians.

Israel is in no way what so ever entitled to East Jerusalem, never was.

The UNSC and the International Court of Justice have ruled that the land taken in 1967 belongs to the Palestinians. These Occupied Palestinian Territories, which include Gaza, all of West Bank and East Jerusalem, belong to the Palestinians NOW; it is not disputed land and it does not have to be negotiated. Its occupation by Israel is completely illegal.

This is also recognized by an international consensus; with only Israel, US, and a few tiny Pacific Islands rejecting it.

In the past few days, it does appear as if the US is starting to join the rest of humanity. But I'm afraid this might be just a choreographed dispute; I know Israel has had for many decades the American leadership by the ...

MrUSA please offer YOUR taxes to support Israel, but not mine. My money is needed to rebuild MY nation.

LostinNagoya: New York would have its two towers today

No. This is not related.

The Jews have suffered enough in the past 100 years. They do not have to give anything to Palestine.

The Palestinians have suffered enough in the past 60 years from Israeli war crimes; immediately after WWII when Ben Gurion started to smuggle American military equipment that was supposed to be decommissioned. Just look at the land the Palestinians have lost in the past century, now they just have a few small scattered bits of land. They do not have to give anything to the zionists.

BTW, the Palestinians had nothing to do with the "holocaust", why should they pay for it.

"Another reason I don't care, is reading through this board, almost every single poster is easily identifiable as anti-Israeli."

BOOM! Exactly like I said some posters would say when they have nothing but the bottom of the barrel to dredge in Israel's defense. Yep, being for peace and against Israel's further incursion into Palestinian territory is somehow 'anti-Israel', and of course Obama calling up Israel on this issue must definitely make him 'anti-Israel' and 'pro-Muslim'. Man the idiocy of some 'arguments' on here is hilarious! Basically, people like Molenir are just extending their hatred of the current US presidency to do much like the GOP are on this issue -- just going against what the president does, bottom line. It's quite funny they actually pretend to care about the issue.

Why not declare the Holy sites of Jerusalemm a holy city,like Vatican city in the centre of Rome.Open to all, Arabs,Christians and Jews.Run as a seperate state answerable to the UN and selected religious leaders from each religion..You go to most cities in Europe and all denominations live and work side by side,mostly peaceful.Take away the problem and then a solution between Israel and Palastine can be solved.And as the good book says ,"Love thy nieghbour".

I would call Obama pro-Muslim, except that it's become clear Arabs don't trust him either. They have lost faith and 'hope' in the empty suit selling 'change.'

But considering a peace agreement would have the greatest chance of stopping Hamas rockets raining down on Israel and increase safety and security for Israelies, I would have to conclude that the pro-Israel lobby and self proclaimed pro-Israel people out there are - very ironically - actually anti-Israel, as the enforcement of their beliefs will never bring about peace. Which could well explain why there never has been peace.

Pretty hard to have peace with a people whose avowed intent is to destroy your country. Do you really think that a negotiated peace settlement is really going to stop Hamas or anyone else from bombing or shelling Israel?

While the US is Israel's friend, do you really think that a nation of Jews is ever going to really trust anyone with their lives after what happened a mere 70 years ago?

Anyway the only solution is for Jerusalem to become a city state where both Jews and Palestinians can coexist in harmony like they err used to. Sorry minello7 I see u have the same idea. Ill reinforce it be repeating it then.

perspective

While the US is Israel's friend, do you really think that a nation of Jews is ever going to really trust anyone with their lives after what happened a mere 70 years ago?

So how long are they going to get a free pass? 100 more years? 200 more years? It was a holocaust. It was wrong, ugly and committed by ugly people. That was 60+ years.

Now cut all ties. You want weapons, buy them yourself. You want to build in areas that were agreed belonged to Palestinians years ago, then do it with your own money. < :-)

This thread is crazy.

One, stop calling people anti-semetic if they don't support the Israeli government's decision to build which provokes Palestinians, and they know it.

Two, being Jewish doesn't automatically equate being pro-Israeli government. In Israel there are numerous parties with numerous platforms.

Three, "Jews this, Jews that" enough with the stupidity. By the way, the Jewish population has been in decline due to mixing with other ethnic groups. I am guilty of this myself.

Four, don't call someone anti-Israel because they realize how building settlements on contested land provokes violent reactions from the Palestinians. To call someone anti-Israel because they are keeping Israel's safety at heart doesn't make sense.

Five, go educate yourselves. This is a topic with deep history and most people commenting here lack the basis to understand this.

adaydream - what's a "free pass"? And how is Israel getting one.

Again, I will reiterate - if Israel's Islamic neighbors wanted to make peace and create a Palestinian state it would have happened a long time ago. Why don't you tell me of one "concession" that has has been made by the Palestinians towards Israel? Simply calling a moratorium on launching rockets is not a concession or a negotiation. If the Palestinians can't stop killing each other, who exactly speaks for the Palestinian side?

As if Israel didn't have enough problems being surrounded by Muslim Arabs who want to ethnically cleanse the ME of the Infidel, now they have to deal with the Obama administration. Geez, three more years of this loser in the White House.

@moonbeams.....great to see someone that sees both sides of story and has an understanding of the situation. Great post.

@Moonbeam,

Agreed with everything you said.

Anyway the only solution is for Jerusalem to become a city state where both Jews and Palestinians can coexist in harmony like they err used to.

Yes, and still are in most places. It's only the fanatics creating problem.

perspective I'll tell you one.

Death. Israel has taken the money given to them by the US and invested in jets, helicopters, precision weapons and a nuclear program. Except for the nukes, they have killed more Palestinians them you want to admit.

In the last Israel massacre the Israelites bombed known UN sanctuaries. They bombed schools filled with teachers and children. They bombed UN warehouses. I think the "concession" have been paid by the Palestinians. < :-)

Sorry to say this, but my true feeling is :without America, Israel is like a candle in the wind; without Israel ,America is still like an air craft carrier in the calm sea,invincible! Israel should give in to Washington on this.

tclh,

Beautiful (but meaningless!)

Sorry to say this, but one would have to be stupid or criminal to light a candle inside a fireworks factory!

Look I have no feeling good or bad towards Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, etc...! I just wish we could get over all this crap!

HISTORY: What is it? It is what one side wants to make of is!

Jews have been persecuted for centuries (by the Romans, Europe, etc..!or Palestinians have been persecuted (by Israel, the British, the Ottomans, etc..) or God gave us this land (Jews and Palestinians) or we were here first (again both claim this)!

How far back do we go in history back to Egypt? back Joshua who conquered Canaan by killing every living thing in Jericho? maybe to the Romans expulsion of the Jews? (I could go on but I think you get my point!)

Where do we stop?

Why can't we just make Jerusalem and open city (free state) move back to the 67 lines get some kind of corridor to join the 2 halves of the Palestinian lands, have a "REAL" peace keeping force there for lets say 50 years, make a small land swap so those Palestinians still in refuge camps can return some place (and lower tensions in neighboring countries) and all move on with or live!

The victim mentality and divine right on both sides has got to stop, and both western and middle eastern powers have got to step up and tell both sides enough is enough!

meaningless or not I don't know, I just don't want to see the fight between Israel and US.

Its been going on since I was born in 1967 ......of all years. America has essentially used Israel to gain presence in the Middle East because of thier economic dependency on oil. America is largely responsible for this situation that exists now. So its their responsibility to solve it and bring peace to this region. Which they have the capacity the to do if they so desire.

Why can't we just make Jerusalem and open city (free state) move back to the 67 lines get some kind of corridor to join the 2 halves of the Palestinian lands

Because Jews would never agree to this. I'm sure Palastinians would agree.

@tclh. There will never be any animosity between the US and Israel. Many people of Jewish background have high positions in American politics on both sides of the political spectrum. Republican and Democrat. Its part of the problem but hopefully it can also facilitate and expedite a solution to the problems in this region. It can work both ways.

masterkun05; It is meaningless to blame this all on one group or another! Who do we blame? The Americans, the British (for coming up with the idea of "return"), the Jews looking for a home, the Palestinians for wanting land they have lived on for generations?

The blame game has got to stop!

A solution needs to be found, and the only way that will happen is that all sides give up something, be it settlements on the Israeli side or the right of return (to their original homes) on the Palestinian side!

The only thing that all sides (and remember we have 3 groups (or more) Jews, Muslims and Christians) will never agree to is that Jerusalem is wholly or partially in one side or the other! But they MAY accept a NEUTRAL Jerusalem!

@ Damien 15......but we both know that the suggestion above your post is probably the only peaceful solution. Come on Israel the world has given you a country. Dont abuse our kindness.

@limbiinjapan. Yes u are right. It will be about compromise on all sides. The idea of a united Jerusalem I prefer this word to neutral ....Jerusalem is the answer to this particular facet of the problem in my opinion. I agree.

There will never be any animosity between the US and Israel.

You’re absolutely right. American (and other) politicians know very well that if they do anything to displease Israel, they’re outta there. They get smeared while their opponents get tremendous support. If all else fails, they somehow end up dead!

the US is being run by a bunch of selfish children.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/340549/the_isreali_attack_on_the_uss_liberty/

Lol. Check the video. A Russian ship comes into view. Isreal didnt fire on the Russian ship but they fired on the equal distance to thier shore American ship. Fancy America sacrificing thier own soldiers like this. For me America and Isreal are like two school yard bullies. One very intelligent and cunning the other a big thug. They seem to be combining thier forces. On thier own they are wonderful but together they start doing crazy things.

@moonbeams: I totally agree with you!!

So thats three agrees for moonbeams and the majority of the Isreali population and the majority of the Palestinian population who all want to live in peace will agree. So whats the problem. Extremists on both sides and the American Government. Thats the problem. America stop exacerbating and perpetuating this problem because of your economic need for oil.

the only way for this problem to go away is for either Israel stops existing or the Palestinians stop existing. Time to face reality.

Molenir: criticizing Israel is being anti-Israel while insulting Muslims on other forums is fine right?

skipthesong: a bit extreme don't you think? Both right-wingers and fundamentalists from both side don't want peace. Not in the interests.

I believe solving the Israel-Palestine issue is only a part of the problem. The American people (and others) much ask themselves and look deeply into how this started and how it could have lasted so long. They must investigate seriously the influence the zionists have had on American (and other) politicians. How could Israel get so much military equipment (secretly) from the US, how could they get away with intentionally trying to sink an American ship (as masterkun mentioned), how could they get the US to protect Israel from UNSC resolutions condemning its war crimes, and so much more. Even if the Israel-Palestine is solved, citizens of the world must make sure that their governments liberate themselves from this debilitating influence.

skipthesong: a bit extreme don't you think?" Oh, way extreme. but c'mon, if the Israelis move back that won't be enough. if the Pals say "Yo, you guys keep it", that won't enough for the other side. Its an extreme situation period.

They must investigate seriously the influence the zionists have had on American (and other) politicians." Well, how are they going to do that if they are as powerful and embedded in the gov as you have stated?

So let me ask, what if the Zionists organization stop existing, would you still allow for Jews to have the state of Israel?

but we both know that the suggestion above your post is probably the only peaceful solution.

Yes, Israel would be getting lotsa cool points if they agreed to this. But highly unlikely. Their flag is a symbol that all the lands between two rivers is their land. I would be very surprised if they saddle anything less than this.

skipthesong: Zionists != Jews. thanks.

American (and other) politicians know very well that if they do anything to displease Israel, they’re outta there.

Very true. America has been created with Jewish money and they make sure they have control of their investment. I remember one of the presidents of Israel said something like "I don't care what American people think, I have the congress"

skipthesong: Zionists != Jews. thank" not according to sabi

damien, now you are really falling for that Duke propaganda.

They must investigate seriously the influence the zionists have had on American (and other) politicians." Well, how are they going to do that if they are as powerful and embedded in the gov as you have stated?

It will be very difficult. Seeing Biden's recent grovelling in Israel is a bit worrying.

So let me ask, what if the Zionists organization stop existing, would you still allow for Jews to have the state of Israel?

Seems my long answer vanished from the page of time. So here is my short answer: Zionists artificially create the reasons for a "Jewish homeland", so without Zionist organizations ....

BTW, zionism and Judaism are not the same. Judaism is actually opposed to zionism; so calling Israel the "Jewish homeland" is a bit...

sabi, you and you boy are really getting me confused.

skip,

If you really want to understand what I'm talking about, please have a look at a video Jim Condit Jr did a few years ago. He has some interesting things to say that will make you better understand the Israel-Palestine conflict. Check it out.

Isreal isn't helping the peace process by building or announcing settlements. Their actions are counterproductive to a long term peace deal. I've always said they should stop the settlements, but I side with them on just about every other major issue.

sabi, as convincing as it maybe, I still don't the main thing - the motive. What could possibly be the motive to go through all the trouble just to take Israel? There was nothing there at the time, and in fact, there's still nothing there.

"But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu showed little sign of yielding, saying Jewish construction in east Jerusalem “in no way” hurts Palestinians."

This is Bibi's middle finger salute to Obama and the US Government. They'll continue to send the US$1m a day to their true friend israel, the only democracy in the Middle east. Remember he was apprenticed by his predecessor Arik. Let's not forget Bibi's mentor's take on their friend and ally, the USA:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

(Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.) So the US can jump up and down, flap around, scream, throw tantrums and roll all over the White House lawn. To israel, it matters not a whit what anyone thinks of them. They're gonna do what the heck they please and nobody is gonna stop them. So there! Any questions now where the seat of power is? It ain't DC, and that's for sure.

(Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.) So the US can jump up and down, flap around, scream, throw tantrums and roll all over the White House lawn. To israel, it matters not a whit what anyone thinks of them. They're gonna do what the heck they please and nobody is gonna stop them. So there!

If this was actually true, and Israel didn't care what anyone else thought of them, they could have easily solved the Pal problem 40 years ago. Just drive them out of the country. Drive em into Egypt and Jordan. Have them join their brothers in those countries. Except they were nice and allowed the Pals to stay. This turned out to be a mistake. Even today, if one assumes that nothing would happen to them, because they control the US, they could get away with simply driving out the Pals. Oh it would piss off their neighbors, but then, their neighbors all already hate them, so whats new.

Except they were nice and allowed the Pals to stay?

Once again, a history deficient writer. It's not up to israel to let the Palestinians stay on their own land. 61 years ago there was no israel. There has always been a Palestine, since the earliest available history texts.

Moderator: Readers, please focus on what is in the story, not ancient history.

Molenir, anyone who says the Israelis have been "nice" to the Palestinians has seriously lost the plot in my opinion.

This building plan is Israel luaghing at the world and especially America. Quite a while ago most of my sympathy went to the Israelis, bu they have rapidly lost that with state spnsored terrotism and ethnic cleansing.

To indicate, in the clearest possible terms, the extent to which the USA cannot stand up to israel anymore, (a key point in this article), on ANY issue not just settlements, I'd like to refer readers to "Foreign Policy", link at the bottom, and have them read the report of a presentation, mandated by Gen. Petreus, given to Gen. Mullen, and the reactions thereto, "stunning him." It should stun you too.

The final paragraph: "There are important and powerful lobbies in America: the NRA, the American Medical Association, the lawyers -- and the Israeli lobby. But no lobby is as important, or as powerful, as the U.S. military. While commentators and pundits might reflect that Joe Biden's trip to Israel has forever shifted America's relationship with its erstwhile ally in the region, the real break came in January, when David Petraeus sent a briefing team to the Pentagon with a stark warning: America's relationship with Israel is important, but not as important as the lives of America's soldiers. Maybe Israel gets the message now."

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/03/14/the_petraeus_briefing_biden_s_embarrassment_is_not_the_whole_story

There are those who accuse me of anti_Semitism in this forum, but I'm not. Just anti-apartheid and anti-Zionism. I really want a JUST peace in the Middle East, as I believe do most good people. When the senior CENTCOM folks "get" a message like this, enough to brief the White House with the same message, and that others have been pointing out for years, I have a sense that I am on the right side of history.

Get all US interest, except those who want to stay there at their own expense, out of Israel. Stop all US money. Allow Israel to founder and fail like they would have decades ago without US aid. < :-)

It's an Islamic terrorists wet dream-

Get all US interest, except those who want to stay there at their own expense, out of Israel. Stop all US money. Allow Israel to founder and fail like they would have decades ago without US aid.

In 1947, A lot of Pals left Israel, warned by their mullahs to leave so they wouldn't be slaughtered along with the Jews. That war, and their departure, led to the founding of Israel. In 67, Israel could have driven out the Pals, forced them to leave, just as their neighbors had left Israel. In fact many of them were ready to leave. However Israel calmed the situation down, and allowed them to stay. As I said, they were nice. You can say all you want about how badly they're mistreated, but Israel allowed them to stay, when they could have easily driven them out. Public opinion would have been on the side of Israel, and we wouldn't have had this whole issue, constantly being brought up.

That however is really not the issue here. The issue is as Senator Brownback said, a zoning decision by Israel, in its own capital. That the Pals want East Jerusalem as their capital really doesn't matter. Jerusalem is not now, and never has been on the table. While the Pals may insist that any discussion include it, its not going to happen. The issue is settled. The only issues left, are whether the Pals are willing to negotiate for peace, with the rest of the West Bank. Some of which may well be kept by Israel as well, the longer they delay negotiations.

I really want a JUST peace in the Middle East,

Yeah right, What about the rest of the world, infect, every country has troubles with Islamic terrorism and it's evil supporters...

quest I'm not an Islamist in any fashion. I'm an American sick and tired of funding murderers. And that's what Israel has been; murderers. < :-)

Jerusalem is not now, and never has been on the table. While the Pals may insist that any discussion include it, its not going to happen. The issue is settled.

The issue is indeed settled, but not the way you'd like it to be.

Israel is in no way what so ever entitled to East Jerusalem, never was.

The UNSC and the International Court of Justice have ruled that the land taken in 1967 belongs to the Palestinians. These Occupied Palestinian Territories, which include Gaza, all of West Bank and East Jerusalem, belong to the Palestinians NOW; it is not disputed land and it does not have to be negotiated. Its occupation by Israel is completely illegal.

This is also recognized by an international consensus; with only Israel, US, and a few tiny Pacific Islands rejecting it.

Sabiwabi...look up the word "consensus". It means a unanimous agreement or group accord. If there are exceptions, then there is no consensus. Therefore, your statement that East Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel is false. If Israel rejects it, then that is what really matters, because the fact is that Israel possesses East Jerusalem, and there IS an international consensus that supports that fact.

The US, and Obama in particular, should keep their noses out of the Middle East. Jerusalem is the Capital City of Israel - north, south, east and west. It is one city, and the East is not "occupied terrority" as the Palestianians claim. Palestine has the right to exist, just as Israel has the Divine Right to exist. Israel is much older than Palestine. I fully support the Israeli Government`s right to build homes in East Jerusalem. It is an integral part of their Capital City.

realist, that's a nice little anti-Israel post you made there, probably without even knowing it.

"I fully support the Israeli Government`s right to build homes in East Jerusalem."

That's a recipe for ongoing conflict, quite the opposite of actually wanting to realize peace for the Israelis, let alone the Palistinians.

By reading this thread, I really get the idea that pretty much every poster who claims to be 'pro-Israel' is actually - by default - against the peace process.

Being pro-Israel means being completely against Israel ever ceding land to the Palistinians, guaranteeing ongoing conflict and ongoing deaths - on both sides.

And you call that pro-Israel? No, sorry pal, not trying to find peace is about as anti-Israel as you can get.

Another problem here is that the aims of the pro-Israel lobby clash head on with the stated aims of an ever-growing list of U.S. presidents who have pushed for ME peace.

The Israeli government needs to quit its house building program and hand the Palistinian's land back to them.

Anything less and there will NEVER be peace.

I think anti-Israel posters like realist (above) realize this much, even if they do not agree with it.

realist; "just as Israel has the Divine Right to exist. Israel is much older than Palestine"

Which divine right are we talking about? The divine right of the Israelite that expelled the Canaanites, or Assyrians expelling the Israelite or the Persians or the Romans or the Turks or the British and so on and so on!

Who was there first well in 3 words "no one knows" the facts are both Jews and Palestinians are both Semitic people and most probably lived in the area in some form or another since before recorded history.

Now we have two groups both claiming "divine rights" and unless both side tone down their rhetoric and start using their heads (and if you are to believe them, god gave them)all we will get are more dead and more conflict.

No side will ever give up complete control of Jerusalem to the others,not the Israelis not the Palestinians and not the Christians living there.

So why not give it what its importance to all 3 make it, a great city free to all, by being an open free city state.

So why not give it what its importance to all 3 make it, a great city free to all, by being an open free city state.

I have a better idea. Lets let those currently possessing the city decide what they want to do with it. Possession is ultimately the most important point after all. That would mean Israel decides. Since they've already decided its their capital, that it won't be divided again. Issue is settled. Moving on now.

Molenir; so what you are saying is that for now Israel has is so it doesn't mater who actually owns the land and therefore down the road if another country or group somehow builds up a big enough force and take it then they will have the rights.

With this kind of attitude there will never be peace and that explains why this has been going on not for 60 years but for 3200 years!

Regarding a plea for a JUST peace in the Middle East I got this retort:

Yeah right, What about the rest of the world, infect, every country has troubles with Islamic terrorism and it's evil supporters...

The "Guest" here needs to know what is now public about the real intent and behavior of israel. It went on mainstream TV in the UK on Monday, here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3048585

and now the whole world knows in great detail the genocide that is ocurring on live satellite TV broadcasts. To lie otherwise is really to lie to yourself. The destruction of Jerusalem, in its own myopic way, is the destrustion of israel itsel, but so blind is their hate for goyim that they cannot stop themselves. I'm not inventing this, it's plain to anyone who can see, and finally, according to this article, it's beginning to make sense to the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. About frikken time.

I just watched a broadcast where Gen Petraus and Admir Mullins have both briefed the Pentagon and Obama/Biden that Israel is a threat to the security of this country and our troops.

These demands by Israel are a push point. They believe that Obama is weak and they intend to push him, knowing the sentiment of the right wing.

I think this is rather interesting. < :-)

What does $30 billion buy? Certainly not any influence in Israel. That's how much military aid we have agreed to give them over 10 years. Think of it as giving your child $100 and they giving you the finger. Cut off aid, and maybe they will take notice that they cannot call all the shots even if it is their country...

U.S. is sceptical that the gap will be easily or quickly close between an Israeli government filled with rightwing, a weak Palestinian leadership and cautious Arab states. Even if all the pieces were to fall into place, I doubt a peace agreement could be achieved and implemented in short time on the big issues. The Israelis and Palestinians would quickly become deadlocked over borders, the future of Jerusalem and the future of Palestinian refugees. The main decision for Obama then would be whether he waits until the Israelis and Palestinians have exhausted negotiations and steps in to bridge the gap, or whether he lays down a rough idea of the US's envisaged peace settlement. I think the U.S. will only put forward a bridging proposal after negotiations.

Tatanka...its more like giving my child $100, and then some other child says "give me $30 or I will make your life miserable", then I say "yeah, maybe you should give him the $30."

These demands by Israel are a push point. They believe that Obama is weak and they intend to push him, knowing the sentiment of the right wing.

aday, you're actually wrong on this point. Its not a left or right thing, support for Israel is bi-partisan. Your thinking that since Obama is the idiot attacking Israel, that anyone who opposes the President on this issue, must mean they're on the right, is completely wrong. Go and look at the the list of those in congress who spoke out against the Presidents position on Israel. Its not a short list. And a lot of the names on that list are Democrats.

European, British and Canadian anti-Semitism is alive and well.

Good Luck to Israel.

LIBERTAS,

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Sharon never said this and Voice of Israel radio has confirmed in the past that no such broadcast ever took place. In addition, no such quote was ever broadcase by any news organzation. Why is it every time I check the 'information' you post it is incorrect?

I merely would like to point out that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth. Anyway, this is my last and only post on this thread. That's all folks...Have a nice day!

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

I don't know for sure, but I tend to believe it is a true quote, and Voice of Israel radio denying it means nothing. I would expect them to deny it regardless of whether or not it was a really said.

But I am not too concerned on its authenticity, as I am convinced that it reflects the way they think. They know very well that they can do whatever they want, and the US will go along with it (e.g., USS Liberty).

But I am not too concerned on its authenticity

As I wrote above, I was only planning one post to this thread. However, I just wanted to show my appreciation to you for your clear and concise demonstration of the phenomenon I often see in threads of this type that I described when I wrote that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth.

Have a nice day!

people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth.

Very true, I couldn't agree more.

Ciao!

"susisake you dont what you talking about. Israel is a country phalestina is not, they have no right to demand anything. besides the concstruction is in Israel side. Israel was kind enough to give them space for living. (which I am totaly against) and they keep doing terror in Israel soil.

Muslim Arabs are never going to accept the residence of Jews in their midst -- the jihad against Israel will not stop, until the whole area is "judenrein", including the state of Israel.

Good luck, Hillary, with these partner is peace. Naturally, she finds it easier to bash the Jews instead --- they don´t have oil, and they don´t threaten terror.

limboinjapan:

" With this kind of attitude there will never be peace and that explains why this has been going on not for 60 years but for 3200 years! "

Where do you get the "3200 years" from? Islam is only 1400 years old. Before that, Jews lived all over the area, including Saudi Arabia (which today is proudly judenrein).

You can not separate the drive to destroy Israel from the ideology that fuels it. Christian and Druze Arabs are not on a jihad against the Jewish state.

Israel needs to do what is best for Israel, and tell everyone else to zip it!

Odogma at 08:49 AM JST - 17th March European, British and Canadian anti-Semitism is alive and well. Good Luck to Israel.

So dogma, do you think anyone who opposes Israeli state terrorism, supports UN Resolution 242 (passed unanimously by EVERY nation of the UN) or agrees with Goldstone report findings on Israeli War Crimes is anti-semetic? If so, you are wrong.

@Damien15 - This is what Sharon said.

On October 3, 2001, I.A.P. News reported that according to Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael an acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us. "Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America."

One more post for clarity. Again, the above quote is a fabrication. It is not true. It did not happen. FYI, 'I.A.P News' stands for 'Islamic Association for Palestine', which is an Islamic organization that raised money in the US for Hamas. (I know it looks like it is an AP story. It is not.) So, we are hardly talking about an unbias source of news...

You can keep repasting the false quote, but it does not change the fact that it is indeed false.

This is truly my last post on this thread. Have a nice day!

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

words spoken by Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

Sigh. Just when I think I'm out, they pull me back ;-)

overthere,

Perhaps you could specifically show proof that the words were spoken by Sharon and perhaps you could further show proof that it was even reported on Kol Yisrael. You see, Sharon never said it and Kol Yisrael never reported it and they say they never reported it. It never happened. Do you have a recording of the Kol Yisrael broadcast? No? Do you have any proof it ever happened? No? Then it is, as I said, false.

I again would like to point out that people really need to look at the actual facts in this case and not depend on misinformation spread by people who don't seem particularly interested in the truth. How else can you explain people quoting something that is a blatant fabrication? Now I will bow out of this discussion. That's all folks...Have a nice day!

Kinniku - One more post for clarity. Again, the above quote is a fabrication. It is not true. It did not happen.

It's only your affirmation. You are the only one here who say the contrary. So I think you know nothing about it but you just want to defend Israel, or you know that it's true, but you pretend that it's not true to spread the propaganda for Israel. Or you just make the thing up, as usual, to justify your imagination. Anyway, I never read the denial from Israel about this article. If you have any proof of your affirmation, please bring it to us. ( Not a made up affirmation) You are very welcome.

One more post for clarity.

I think we all understand your point, we just don’t believe you. Whether it’s you telling us that it’s a fake, or Voice of Israel radio denying they reported it, in both cases we are hardly talking about an unbiased source.

I don't know for sure, but I tend to believe it is a true quote, and Voice of Israel radio denying it means nothing. I would expect them to deny it regardless of whether or not it was a really said.

But I am not too concerned on its authenticity, as I am convinced that it reflects the way they think. They know very well that they can do whatever they want, and the US will go along with it (e.g., USS Liberty).

We shouldn't make too much out of this quote, we do not need it to understand that every single Israeli leader has felt that there is nothing to worry about American pressure on Israel, that they control America, and the Americans know it.

This is truly my last post on this thread.

Why do you assume that anybody cares? Have a nice day!

I hope Netanyahu has the cohones to demand the Obama stops building anything in Washington D.C. without Israel approval.

Alas, he´ll cave once again, and the Israel haters will have another field day.

sabiwabi and FromEurope,

You both seem to have trouble reading. I never wrote that Kol Yisrael said Sharon did not say what is in the false quote above. What I said was they say they never broadcast any such thing. If there were such a Kol Yisrael broadcast, which is supposedly where it was heard by Islamic Association for Palestine 'News' (which stopped doing its once a month or so news in October or 2008), one would assume it would have surfaced in the almost 9 years since it supposedly took place. It has not.

I find a couple of things interesting. One, sabiwabi has stated twice that it does not matter to him whether the quote is authentic or not. That really does say it all, doesn't it. The truth does not matter to you. On the other hand, I have never lied to either of you. I have never made anything up. (Forget the DNA testing argument of long ago sabiwabi as I was correct in my assumption in that case. I have never posted purposely incorrect information. Please feel free to point out such false things you claim I have posted. There are not any. In contrast, even in the face of constant proof I provided the pair of you kept claiming that Fox News owned al-Jazeera. It was only when FromEurope provided what he thought was proof in the form of a Slate article of Fox News owning al-Jazeera. It was then, after I showed him that it was a satire, that he finally relented.

In short, this is not about me. I tell the truth. This is about a completely unsubstantiated and false quote with no backup to support it except for a defunct Islamic Association for Palestine 'News' that financially supported Hamas when it was blowing up innocent people in cafes and markets.

Lastly, sabiwabi, I assume you care because you respond.

Have a nice day!

The flawed partnership of Israel and the USA is a marriage made in hell. Jesus what a mess.

The Palestinians, Rachel Corrie, the Lebanese and the Iranians are the offspring of this ill-conceived union.

It really is a spat between a married couple. Israel is like the wife who has taken the husband's credit card and gone on a spending spree and alienated the entire neighborhood by her outrageous behaviour. After a certain point it is just too late, there is no turning back. The damage has been done and all that is left is for the used and abused husband to take his losses and move on, leaving the insane shrieking money addicted wife to latch on to some other poor sucker, to drive out if his mind and bleed dry with her ridiculous demands.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton cautioned Israel's right-wing government on Thursday that it risked losing Arab support for fighting any threats from Iran if it shuns Palestinian peace talks. Arab support??

Ever thought about Russia..........which way are they pointed. Rabin is a Russian son. Peres forever. The saviour of the Jews.