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U.S. 'deeply disappointed' as Iran convicts reporter

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Thats right Iran..."We're going to wait and see what the US does before we agree to discussing relation". And then they pulled this off. The US is waiting to see what Iran does too not just one way folks.

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U.S. 'deeply disappointed' ..?

Why? Millions of Americans and people outside the States have been U.S. 'deeply disappointed' at how America under Bush imprisoned hundreds of people WITHOUT CHARGES in Gitmo.

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American forces liberating Afghanistan from the Taliban imprisoned at Gitmo Afghani, Yemeni, Pakistani and even Canadian Jihadists they faced on the battlefields there so Iran is, you know, entitled to imprison an American journalist now and then, regardless of the validity of the charges brought against her by a regime that kills its own dissidents, hangs gays and has made second class citizens of its female population.

At least, that's what passes for reasoned debate with some here.

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no telepromptor, what passes for reasonable debate here, particularly by the fringe Right Wing, is the hypocrisy of a country - America - that preaches freedom and democracy while locking up hundreds of people indefinitely without charge, and then cries foul when another country locks up one of their citizens after charging them.

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The international Left needn't worry. Obama won't cry foul.

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Unfortunately, Gitmo is just one of a long list of problems that GWB and the fringe Right left Presdient Obama to deal with.

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What a bunch of absolute thugs.

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I really don't see what Gitmo has to do with Iran jailing a female reporter. But I guess some people miss Bush that badly.

If it's problems left behind we are talking about it was Carter, not Bush, who gave us Iran.

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SushiSake: Millions of Americans and people outside the States have been U.S. 'deeply disappointed' at how America

You've had hundreds of opportunities to express your opinion about Gitmo on the countless threads on JT that involve Gitmo. And it's safe to say that you've posted the same opinion so many times that most people here could probably write it for you. But this specific case is about an Iranian-American in an Iranian court case. Surely the case is big enough for you to have some kind of opinion on it instead of posting yet another repetitive post about Gitmo.

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BBC (who Roxana Saberi once worked for) has a vid about the trumped up charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6rPlVvoBo0

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SuperLib: Sushi was posting about Gitmo in light of the fact that bush imprisoned hundreds of people without trial, and was therefore taking that to express the opinion that perhaps Americans should not be shocked or 'deeply disappointed' by a woman actually being tried, charged, and locked up in another nation. He was talking about what he said was the hypocrisy of Americans, and in a way directly related to this issue. It certainly beats the rubbish teleprompter was spewing as to why Iran is "entitled to imprison an American journalist now and then", talking about the US 'freeing' Afghanistan and what not. If Sushi's comments are upsetting you because they are so off-topic, you ought to be quite upset at other posters (like teleprompter), and actually your post to Sushi really has nothing to do with the article at all either, you were merely attacking him.

I personally would like to know more details about the case, but we're not likely going to hear about them since Iran refuses to discuss them. How fair was her trial? What evidence do they have that she was spying? Beyond that, there's not much that can be done. It will definitely strain relations, but if she was indeed spying and was caught, well, them's the breaks. If it were the other way around, and an Iranian spy was caught and tried in the US, would they let him or her go simply to make the other party (government) happy? Would the sentence be less?

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when it comes to spying issues, America acts in exactly the same way as Iran. Actually, the US is probably even more exagerrated, or did I just watch too many movies and read too many newspapers? please don't critisize Iran and exonorate the US when it comes to this issue. The US has a long history regarding witch hunts and jailing / executing innocent people accused of 'spying'.

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btw, if this was the US 40 years ago, this lady would have been executed. So she is very lucky to only get 8 years in Iran today.

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and for anyone who is about to spam me, no, I'm not a secret communist, just a realist.

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The Fargo, North Dakota native had been living in Iran for six years

If you're a Westerner visiting or living in an Islamic nation, you'd better be prepared for things like this to happen.

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If a may step in the middle of the radical froth-fest that is beginning, this seems to be the hardliners within Iran's government attempting to derail any kind of reconciliation at all costs.

As$holes.

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smithinjapan - the first paragraph of your post was right on target wrt Superlib's post.

FYI, I'm not bothered in the slightest by Superlib's punch-drunk, flailing attacks, in fact I find them, even the occasional rare one that is actually relevant to the topic at hand, pretty entertaining. :-)

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SmithinJapan: He was talking about what he said was the hypocrisy of Americans, and in a way directly related to this issue.

I'm sorry, was there some evidence that this lady supported Gitmo in some way? Because that's the only way you could claim hypocrisy. The story is about her actions, not the past actions of previous US governments. Given her work with NPR and the BBC I think it's safe to say she's probably not a supporter of Dick Cheney. Yet here you guys are, only making comments in a way that can criticize the US government while she's about to spend the next 8 years in jail. You guys will eat your own just to make a political point.

please don't critisize Iran and exonorate the US when it comes to this issue

I'm here to criticize Iran. Their actions are barbaric.

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Heh, Super...she worked for FOX "news" too ;)

Must be for that!

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Superlib - "Their actions are barbaric."

You are way too quick to point the finger at Iran while trying - but failing - to brush what your own country does at Gitmo - imprisoning people for 6+ years now with NO CHARGES - under the carpet.

And, yes, Gitmo IS relevant to this thread, particularly for American posters like yourself who are making inane comments and crying foul at what another country is doing while trying to ignore the far, far worse crimes your own country's government has committed.

Moderator: No, Gitmo is not relevant to this thread. Stay on topic please.

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What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Unfortunately, the fringe American Right don't seem to understand this.

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Sushi's idea of "on-topic" for this thread include these references:

Bush: 2

America: 5

Right (Wing): 3

Gitmo: 4

Iran: 1

Saberi: 0

Sushi....Iran's actions are barbaric. If that causes another anti-Bush outburst from you then so be it. I think it's important to criticize Iran on this issue even if it makes you really, really angry to hear it.

It's troubling that Iran would do it now, especially after the Iranian government recently showed at least some signs of decreased rhetoric against Washington. It's a backwards and barbaric move to invent charges against Saberi and then sentence her to jail for 8 years. The Iranian government should be ashamed at themselves and the worldwide criticism that Iran is receiving is well deserved.

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Sushi... ADR with a secondary BDR.

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do we have all the facts relating to this case? I certainly do not support Iran and thank god I'm not living in this country, however, why should the US always have the right to set the agenda? Just because Obama is president now, why should Iran immediately be expected to excuse the US for the past 8 years? There is a price to pay for everything, there's no free lunch so everyone who is not on side, please get real.

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MistersMarmy, America isn't 'settin' the agenda'.

Obama expressed 'disappointment'. So, presumably would your country.

You give America super powers we don't have.

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mistersarmy - "why should Iran immediately be expected to excuse the US for the past 8 years? There is a price to pay for everything, there's no free lunch so everyone who is not on side, please get real."

This is something that goes right over the heads of posters like Superlib and nullifies their outrage even before it begins....

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USA Ronin, please read what I said again. I am not anti american and I feel really sorry for this lady. I would not wish to be in her situation.

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They shouldn't sushiskae and mistermarmy, buy why also should she be used to make a political point? Superlib did have a point, you are using her to make a political point.

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Once again the international Left - supposedly all about human rights, equality and secularism - just can't help but defend a totalitarian regime of Islamic supremacists that kills dissidents, hangs gays and believes women are basically chattel.

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SuperLib: " Yet here you guys are, only making comments in a way that can criticize the US government while she's about to spend the next 8 years in jail. You guys will eat your own just to make a political point."

Awhile back now, I think it was when Israel was waging war again on the Palestinians, you got upset with me at grouping you in with other posters who took a slightly more right-wing view than you, for which I apologized. Now, you go ahead and show me where I ONCE criticize the US government in my post so that 'you guys' is valid. I pointed out to you merely what SushiSake was trying to say, in as objective a manner as possible, while also pointing out you ought to direct some of your angst at 'off-topic' posts towards teleprompter. And yet you assume that means that I am in some way also trying to tie Gitmo into this case.

Sheesh, man... that's worse than the 'with us or against us' mentality when you say 'you're against us' for simply spelling out why another person's post is not off-topic!

The next post of yours is a lot better (the second half).

"It's a backwards and barbaric move to invent charges against Saberi and then sentence her to jail for 8 years."

Hmmm.... well, is there proof that they invented the charges and that said charges have no truth to them? That's one of the things I said in my post I would like to know more about.

noliving: "Superlib did have a point, you are using her to make a political point."

If you think this is not about politics, you are kidding yourself.

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I never said it wasn't about politics smithinjapan, but then again why should she be used to make a political point? Why should she be the one be used to make a political point smith?

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telepromptor - "just can't help but defend a totalitarian regime of Islamic supremacists that kills dissidents, hangs gays and believes women are basically chattel."

Here's one more fringe Right poster who pretends he cares about the rights of minority groups.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetically sad.

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Noliving: "Why should she be the one be used to make a political point smith?"

If you're talking about from a moral perspective, I agree that it's a shame, and I feel sorry for the poor woman. But if politics were not involved we wouldn't be hearing about this at all. In fact, I doubt the case would exist.

You're comment said: "Superlib did have a point, you are using her to make a political point" and my response to you was that this is 100% political, and if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself. The political point is being made by Iran, not Sushisake and/or Mistersmarmy.

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Do the crime, do the time. She is guilty and the US knows it.

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smithinjapan: Disagree that the political point is only being made by Iran and not also sushisake and mistermarmy. It seems to me that sushiskae and mistermarmy have no problem using her to make a political point. It seems they could really careless if the charges really were real to begin with.

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I would say sushisake first several comments, to me at the very least, is using this case to make a political point.

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Smithinjapan: I think you missed the point of quote you are using. That is its wrong to use her to make a political point over something she has nothing to do with. So I knew it was political to begin with, don't think I didn't know that.

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Of course this is about politics.

We have politicians from Iran and America both striving to make political points.

Yes, this woman is in a pretty dismal position, but as I mentioned before, it's completely hypocritical of our band of American posters - who support the indefinite detention of hundreds of people in Gitmo - to think that Roxana Saberi should somehow be awarded special treatment.

They cry out about whether or not the charges against her are justified and yet say nothing about whether there is any substance at all to the charges against foreigners kept in Gitmo courtesy of the U.S. Government.

I stand by my point that Gitmo IS related to this issue as taking it out of the equation would negate the reality that certain U.S. posters on this thread simply don't have a leg to stand on.

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Sushi, I have no way of knowin' if she was a spy or not.

If she was a spy for the West, then she's a patriot.

If she was a spy for the West who got caught, then she was aware of what could happen to her. If she's guilty, eight years ain't all as bad as it could have been... like a public hangin' in a Tehran public square.

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Oh, and, Sushi... If she was a spy for the West, we should try to get her back. That's what countries do for their patriots. Russia, America... whatever.

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Honestly, by reading some of the comments from Americans on this board, you'd almost think that being American somehow means you are above the law, and the laws of other countries.

As one of my school teachers used to say, "I've got news for you, and it's all bad."

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Noliving: "I think you missed the point of quote you are using. That is its wrong to use her to make a political point over something she has nothing to do with. So I knew it was political to begin with, don't think I didn't know that."

Sorry, bud, but your posts didn't read that way, and plenty of people on both sides are using her for political messages. She had nothing to do with Gitmo, sure, but she has everything to with politics between the US and Iran, and that's what SushiSake and others were referring to in a broader scope. She is being used by Iran in that broader scope as well.

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I agree sushisake3 if those americans did support the indefinite detention at gitmo they are hypocrites. But it is also hypocritical of you to criticize the US for gitmo and then not criticize Iran for not giving her a fair trial considering they never told her lawyer what she has been charged with specifically with regards to spying along with not sharing the evidence with the defense attorney and then calling a fair trial for her by your standards special treatment, as if her nationality should determine whether or not she gets a fair trial. The other problem is that gitmo prison is being shutdown. So what would be the point of trying to make political point now about gitmo when it is being closed. To be honest you are just as hypocritical as the people you denounce as being hypocrites.

smithinjapan: Ya I'm sure it didn't read that way....

Moderator: Readers, Gitmo is not relevant to this discussion.

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SushiSake: Yes, this woman is in a pretty dismal position, but as I mentioned before, it's completely hypocritical of our band of American posters

Translation: She's in a bad spot, but I'd like to take this opportunity to criticize a group of people that have nothing to do with her because I personally hate them.

Does that about sum it up? :)

Sushi: Honestly, by reading some of the comments from Americans on this board, you'd almost think that being American somehow means you are above the law, and the laws of other countries.

What an absolutely bizarre comment to make. Just what exactly is going on in that mind your yours? It's like there's a war going on around you that only you see. Look, we know your feelings about Republicans. We've read the half-dozen posts or so that you've written about them. I think it's fair to say that your point has been made. Now how do you personally feel about what Iran is doing to Saberi?

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I suspect what might clarify things here is to point out that what this woman did or didn’t do isn’t really the issue, did she support Gitmo? It has nothing to do with anything. Was she a spy? We have no way of knowing. Was she an American? At the time of her arrest no. Her father is Iranian & her mother is Japanese, but she did have US citizenship. However so as to work in Iran she was using her Iranian passport & that makes her an Iranian.

What many here are getting all bent out of shape over is the “seemingly” anti-American slant of some of the posts. The reason is simply, over the last 8 years America has drifted into being a country that is so paranoid about terrorists that it has gone way too far in its own self defence, so far in fact that it has in the process lost any credible right to criticise the actions of ANY other country. Is Iran out of order imprisoning this lady to 8 years, my guess would be yes, but it is my guess, because I really don’t know if she was working as a spy. I don’t believe she was because sending a pretty young woman into an Islamic nut house like Iran to collect information just doesn’t make any sense. Remember she won a beauty contest in the US & looked very, very nice in her bathing costume, but that is not how an Islamic nutjob would see things, so not the best person to use as a spy (IMHO). When the US has finally cleaned up its own not so judicial process then it can stand on the worlds stage & make judgement on others, until then it has no credibility & needs to stand in silent shame for having lost what its founding fathers worked so hard to achieve.

(USARonin. Hope you like that last little touch?)

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Ah but grafton wouldn't the fact that they are closing gitmo suggest that they are cleaning up their own judicial process? I disagree that it needs to stand in silent shame, if no one speaks up for her then which nation will? Which world body organization will? UN?

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Noliving at 02:38 AM JST - 20th April

Gitmo has not yet been closed & no one has yet said what is going to happen to the inmates. So I will wait until I see something before I make judgement. By the way, some of the people in Gitmo simply need shooting in the back of the head, & I would not object if that happened. I accept that that really really wouldn’t do US credibility much good, but it might you understand that I am not in any way against the US & supporting Iran. But until the US has some moral standing in the world in has no right to judge others. Which if you think about it was exactly the reason that so many gave for never allowing torture. I don’t trust Obama because he has done nothing yet to have earned anybodies trust, so I will wait, as I think most Americans should do. Remember what they say, the show isn’t over until the fat lady sings.

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I know that, that is why I used the word closing, it is in the process of being closed. Well for some of the inmates they are trying to find countries that would take them such as albania. Everyone has the right to judge others no matter what their moral standing/credibility in the world is. People don't like being judged because it forces them to take responsibility for their own actions. Like I said, if the US doesn't say anything then who will? The UN? An organization that is more hypocritical then the US. I have yet to see anyone else willing to step forward so that the US can take a step back.

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Apparently the jailed reporter once worked for the BBC - which millions of secular Iranians derisively and justly called 'the Voice of Khomeini' in the mid and late 70's for the role it played in bringing the fundamentalist ayatollah to power.

This poor woman must have somehow believed her past affiliation with the broadcasting corporation would buy her some sort of immunity from the murderous totalitarian theocrats running the country and sponsoring terror throughout the region and even in Europe.

Sad.

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she appeared before an Iranian court in an unusually swift one-day closed-door trial.

One day. Closed court. Probably the two most significant statements in the whole article. Sounds like a complete hose down.

I approve of Obama's stance toward Iran in general, but I think he should be crying foul over this one. That is not to say that he should be demanding special priviledges for an American, or to criticize the whole of Iran, or to even claim that Saberi is innocent. Rather, he should be condemning the Iran Justice system's shoddy handling of the case, which reeks of corruption and seems completely rigged, and is frankly an embarrassment to the rest of the country of Iran. (Even though Iran is not the only country with an embarrassment involving justice right now, and we all know this.)

I feel sorry for Saberi, but frankly, she never should have left the U.S. Our side should work to try to get her a re-trial in a fair court, a court based on some hard evidence rather than these flimsy confessions alone. But I would NOT let this get in the way of improving relations with Iran at all. In fact, better relations will most likely help Saberi in the future.

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One day. Closed court. ... (Even though Iran is not the only country...

Where else in the world does this occur? Well, no doubt - amoung other countries - the US, for one.

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TJrandom, maybe you missed the word "not" in the bit you quoted. Anyway, I doubt the U.S. has ever had any one day espionage trials. We have had some decidedly unfair and bogus espionage trials, yes, but I don't think they were one day. You actually have to scratch the surface to find the problems with our trials, that is the genius of them, because far too many Americans cannot be bothered to scratch the surface or, when they do, they just don't want to believe what they see.

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I was thinking of the terrorism trials - but since they are not public, who is to say how many days they take.

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TJrandom: I was thinking of the terrorism trials - but since they are not public, who is to say how many days they take.

Not espionage, but I will still accept it as close enough. Good point.

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Well, it's safe to say this lady's situation has been fully exhausted in terms of its effectiveness in spreading a message of hypocrisy. Good luck with the next 8 years, Saberi. You'll probably never know how many people thought your situation was the perfect opportunity to express outrage at the United States.

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SuperLib at 10:29 PM JST - 20th April

In this instance I agree with you, there is no good reason for anybody to be having a go at the US over this, given the circumstances Saberi was arrested as an Iranian, not an American. In any real legal sense this is nothing to do with the US. I would however ask that you use some logic when it comes to criticism of the US in that if enough people are saying the same thing then it must follow that there must be some truth to what is being said.

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I saw her parents on the news. They were beautiful people that were hurting from the incarceration of their daughter. My sympathy goes out to them and to the reporter.

Mean people suck!

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