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U.S. general: No court-martial for pregnant soldiers

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"four women and three men have been found in violation of it".

So one guy is cheating on his girlfirend! Wait until his wife finds out!

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I agree with this. Not the court-martial, but a letter of reprimand in the Service Record book (SRB) of anybody who gets pregnant in Maj Gen Anthony Cucolo command.

The women in Iraq are very aware of their responsibility. They went to Iraq for a mission and getting pregnant takes them out of commission.

I remember when a lot Women Marines (WMs) would get paid a reenlistment bonus, then get pregnant. They'd get an honorable discharge and keep the bonus they weren't earning. They would get a medical discharge and keep the money.

They changed that and if they wanted a discharge, they repaid the unused portion of the bonus and then got out.

I totally agree with the General. < :-)

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That's why it was a bad idea to put females in combat roles.

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It doesn't say that men and women can't have sex, just not get pregnant. That's not difficult to understand. Either use birth control and pray that you're safe or don't have sex. < :-)

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aday..... hey, a new dawning in time. We agree on something. I remember during PW1, female soldiers were, only a rumor I guess, selling. We were just sitting around waiting for something to happen for a long time.

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adaydream: It doesn't say that men and women can't have sex,

Did you read the whole article? It says:

Troops also are prohibited from “sexual contact of any kind” with Iraqi nationals. And, they cannot spend the night with a member of the opposite sex, unless married or expressly permitted to do so.

They stopped short of banning sex, very short. I am sure that sex on duty is also prohibited, and since the above leaves only fellow soldiers for the unmarried and those whose spouses are not present, there are too few women and I am sure even a soldier would not want them even with a bag over their head.

Further, yes there is the option of BC pills, but I think its a bit much to expect the taking of drugs to prevent pregnancy when they alter moods and such. Further, it requires planning. You have know you are going to have sex next month, or you don't know and you take them anyway. Either way, it not like your fellow troops are not going to know and that will be problematic. Imagine being an attractive female soldier in a unit full of horny men and they just learned you are no the pill. Next option is the morning after pill, but again, we are talking about drugs and side-effects, and with the MAP potential ethical problems for the soldier.

When it comes right down to it, pregnancy is the fault of the male. The male holds almost all the cards in preventing pregnancy. Women have few options and they may not be good for her. So I find this court-martial idea to be total crap. The only way I could change my mind is to start believing that sex is no important to the psychological stablity of soldiers, but I do think its important, so I think the sex policies are also crap.

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I think this shows the true character of the new America. There is a saying in order to beat your enemy you have to become like them. Japan had a much better enemy to become. America is changing and the changes are scaring me.

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"I think this shows the true character of the new America. There is a saying in order to beat your enemy you have to become like them. Japan had a much better enemy to become. America is changing and the changes are scaring me."

You know you could be right, OtaniYuri. Often when I am with a Japanese woman and we see SDF guys out on the town the chick always says to me "Those SDF guys are the kind of Japanese man who would NEVER want to get a woman pregnant, or even get into the situation where it would be possible to do so."

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numbskull if two people want to have sex, good grief they'll have it. You don't have to sleep over to have sex.

Then when it comes to birth control...there's always condoms. They don't change a woman's hormones. < :-)

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adaydream: numbskull if two people want to have sex, good grief they'll have it. You don't have to sleep over to have sex.

Rationally, its not a requirement. How many women think about sex in primarily a rational manner? Setting up a situation where sex becomes "inconvenient" for a woman is really all you need to do to seriously reduce sexual activity among women. IE, quikies are generally not what women seek.

Then when it comes to birth control...there's always condoms. They don't change a woman's hormones. < :-)

I did not leave condoms out as an over-sight. It was intentional. Women have near zero control or awareness with what is happening with a condom. Therefore, proper use of the condom is in the man's hands. Yet, if the man messes up, she gets the blame?

No, I don't think its right to blame the woman at all for her own pregnancy. Her only real control is BC pills or the morning after pill, and me, I even shy away from aspirin. Other than that you have the options of tying the tubes, which I don't even think we need bother discussing, or IUDs, and given that option, I think most women would just rather refrain from sex.

So what all this says is: you can have sex, but we made it so women really won't want to. That is bull.

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Say what you will about military life and missions, but it is a basic human right to procreate, and no general has the authority to limit this activity...

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Well to avoid pregnancy maybe they should limit their sexual activity to keep it strictly oral.

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YuriOtani: I think this shows the true character of the new America. There is a saying in order to beat your enemy you have to become like them.

added with previous posts...

Very nice Christmas story from America. They are not capable of assuming personnel responsibility for anything!

and

etc to become a shell of what it should be. America is on the road abandoning its founders principles.

and

I thought America was suppose to be better that the rest of the world, at least according to Americans.

Nothing personal, but I do like to call out the America-obsessed when I find them. Makes it easier for people to ignore your future posts.

Merry Christmas everyone!

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I can tell who has never been in the military. You get an order, you follow it it. That means not getting pregnant. If you can't wait a year or two to have sex, then you ensure your protected, especially with these orders.

Base Exchange has condoms.

Sick Bay has prescriptions for birth control pills.

You can wait till you get home.

You can masterbate.

That kinda limits the options. Now it's up to the service member. Do you follow the order or not?

It takes two people to have sex and produce a child. It's not that difficult to follow the order. Both of them are responsible. No more different then before they entered the military and had sex and didn't want to get pregnant. All over the world people have sex without getting pregnant because they use protection. It's just that simple.

Bottom line, either reframe from having sex or don't get pregnant. < :-)

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YuriOtani, I've seen your posts on other topics. Just admit it: you hate America. Whether the American government, including the military, makes a decision, good or bad, it's decided. The Japanese government takes decades. Am I wrong?

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adaydream: It takes two people to have sex and produce a child.

But one person is essentially in control and the other isn't. If you understand this, you will understand women a whole lot better. They are at a man's mercy in so many ways.

It's not that difficult to follow the order.

It is considerably difficult if your vice is sex and you are a female under this order. Every soldier has a vice.

Both of them are responsible.

It does not seem that the General agrees. It seems like he thinks the woman is responsible for what the man did, or didn't do right. Its bass ackwards.

No more different then before they entered the military and had sex and didn't want to get pregnant.

Its A LOT different. Maybe numbers is not your strong suit, but when the native population of the country you are stationed in are off-limits, it presents a SEVERE logistical difficulty. It also limits your choices.

All over the world people have sex without getting pregnant because they use protection. It's just that simple.

Simple? Yeah, its all simple until the condom breaks or slips off and then it suddenly gets complicated. But who it really gets complicated for is the woman. And she was not in a position to check that condom. It was the man's job and they often fail, thinking its just that simple. Sometimes they even take it off, just for fun.

Waiting and masterbation are not sex. And if sex is what keeps someone stable, best to give it to them, ESPECIALLY in a war zone. Condoms are something you are seriously not understanding the woman's lack of control over. BC pills and MAPs do the job, yes, but there are complications as I said. And not all women can take BC pills.

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numbskull it's called personal responsibility, but you seem so destined to argue the point. It's personal discipline.

Either you reframe and wait till you get home or you use protection.

I've been overseas on a couple of military tours and I never got anybody pregnant. One tour I didn't have sex on. It's not that difficult. You make it sound like it's a real travesty.

And if you're a sex addict, you need help. < :-)

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'women who get pregnant in the battlefield'--The male soldiers should keep their guns in their pants!

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At the end of the day, these men and women enlisted into the military. They weren't drafted. They knew there would be rules and regulations they wouldn't particularly care for. But they made that choice. Either follow the rules or suffer the consequences. Pure and simple. <:-)

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palisadez54, no I agree with you about the decision making. There is a joke in the SDF that there is not an effective fighter interceptor available. None of them have enough fuel to stay aloft for a decision to be made :) I worry about America because the rules and punishment are becoming harsher and harsher as the years pass. You can trace this in part to "zero tolerance" in schools and the mentality that came from this. No I do not "hate America", I am very worried it has started down the dark trail. Oh fyi Yuri is my nickname, what my friends call me.. Try Yuriko :)

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Is there any precedence that US court martial tried the pregnant female soldiers? What about Lynndie England?

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adaydream: One tour I didn't have sex on. It's not that difficult.

You are like a non-smoker telling a smoker how easy it is to quit. If I had a smoker in my unit, I would rather they got their cigs than add to their stress, and I really hate cigarette smoke.

I would not say you need to be a sex addict to be a person for whom sex is better than chocolate and your only vice. And its stress relieving qualities are pretty well known I should think.

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Either follow the rules or suffer the consequences. Pure and simple.

You said yourself that the rule was not "no sex". So you are saying that sex is allowed, but if an accident happens (and the accident is most likely all the man's fault) then only the woman suffers and fair enough? You are saying the rule of "have no accidents or get court-martialed" makes sense?

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Either follow the rules or suffer the consequences.

Don't get pregnant. Pure and simple. And they both get equally in trouble. The woman isn't the only one who is liable. She gets pregnant, they both get reprimands.

Both the man and the woman have to judge it between themselves. Is it worth chancing penetration sex or something else?

You forget, they will only receive a letter of reprimand if there is a pregnancy. No court-martial.

You don't have very good will power do you numbskull? I don't ask this in disrespect, it just sounds as if this is such a burden that these troops are put through.

What if there wasn't any sex allowed, like on submarines? What if there was no cigarettes allowed, like in a lot of businesses? What about people that are ordered never drink again? There are all kinds of jobs, occupations, etc that put restrictions on the job.

What if your job made new restrictions on you at work? Would you abide? Just curious. < :-)

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adaydream: What if your job made new restrictions on you at work?

I leave at 5. Soldiers don't.

adaydream: Don't get pregnant. Pure and simple.

Yeah, you keep saying that. I don't expect you will see how silly it is to believe that soon, but maybe one day.

You forget, they will only receive a letter of reprimand if there is a pregnancy. No court-martial.

I know that. Its the General's brain fart I have a problem with. And yours. I also cannot agree with the reprimand, except for the man, if he is a soldier. In fact, I recommend sex ed courses for soldiers to prevent accidents.

You don't have very good will power do you numbskull?

In fact my level of willpower is phenomenal. I just see no value in wasting it on something so pointless and counter-productive as avoidance of sex. I also consider those who don't have the will power or need the stress relief.

it just sounds as if this is such a burden that these troops are put through.

A day is not a burden. A month is bothersome. Three months is a burden to the point it can affect perfomance. Sure, some people need more than others, some less. I see no reason to micro-manage this in this fashion.

What if there wasn't any sex allowed, like on submarines?

Do people get assigned submarine duty, or do they volunteer? What is the typical time spent at sea? My problem is that, I believe, soldiers in Iraq are there for months at a time, at least, swimming in a sea of untouchables, and upon signing up they don't know if they will be sent to a place like Iraq. And on top of that, giving women soldiers crap if they get pregnant? May as well give them crap for having the audacity to having a limb blown off! That too could be the result of an accident you know.

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Many deployments have General Order 1 stating sex, drugs, alcohol, and pornography to name a few are not allowed during their tour of duty. There are some exceptions to the rules from base to base but in Iraq and Afghanistan, you can not have sex even if you are married. I have been deployed with a guy who had his wife deployed at the same location. They could see each other but they couldn't have sex (to anyone’s knowledge anyways). The fact is the rules are in place so that the mission comes first, not personal interests or pleasures. There are times where people can partake in their own free time but the reason people are there is to complete the mission whatever that may be.

A woman getting pregnant is a violation of General Order 1 that is ordered by the base commander mind you. If a woman is pregnant, it pretty obvious that she has been having sex. I believe a court-martial is pretty strong of a punishment but I have seen a ton of Article 15s under the UCMJ given out because of the violation. If the woman becomes pregnant, she is not fit for duty and will be sent back to her home command where she will be dealt with in accordance to the UCMJ. The man who had sex with the woman will also get an Article 15 and more punishment for the violation. I have seen people get kicked out of the service for this but not solely for being pregnant, more of a chain of events that led up to the GO1 violation.

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I support Maj Gen Anthony Cucolo's decision. There is a mission to accomplish. These troops knew this when they enlisted. This is volunteer military and either you perform as ordered or suffer the consequences.

No matter what some posters believe, the military is an organization based on following orders. It's not a democracy. You want a democracy, don't enlist. < :-)

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adaydream, so you are telling America's young to think twice before entering the service? If you do not want to be subject to arbitrary rules and punishment to say out? What will happen when nobody wants to join the Military? Then there will be a draft with people who were not willing. Really the US military is blinded by its ability to dispense harsh punishment while not following these rules themselves.

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Really the US military is blinded by its ability to dispense harsh punishment while not following these rules themselves.

They dispense these rules and live up to them. If you don't live up to them, then either suffer the consequences or leave or don't enlist.

so you are telling America's young to think twice before entering the service?

I've always told people that. It's not something that you do lightly. It's a commitment. It's not Sunday School class or homeroom. It's something either you are committed to doing or don't enlist.

I'd love to see the draft brought back. But it'll never happen.

The rules are put there for a reason. This rule is because Maj Gen Anthony Cucolo has a mission and a certain number of fighters. He can't afford to lose any. If you came to Iraq to get pregnant, you should take up a different line of business. These soldiers took an oath to do whatever was required of them while they were on active duty for the US military.

So yes I say think twice, but if you enlist and you take that oath, you're sworn to allegiance until you are no longer in the military. < :-)

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i bet not one of you are in ther military,and you set here and talk about women that get pregnant on there Deployment, Why dont you step into there shoes. for a year and them you tell me. what you think.i am a Spc in the Army my Husband and i are both deployed together. you get to sat at home and talk chearp about the female in the military i dont see you doing with they do . you get to hold the ones you love,kiss, spend time with them, you know when your other half comes home he/she is safe, the one over seas that are married we never know if our wifes/Husbands are coming back. i know there are some that are married to some one in the military that is reading this at home.I am sorry, but you get a letter , a flag , but we get to see our wife/husband come back before they clean them up. :( :(

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