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U.S. health care talks focus on illegal immigrants

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The illegal immigrant controversy that led to the outburst from South Carolina’s Wilson stems from Republicans’ contention that illegal immigrants would be able to get federally funded health coverage under the House health bill — even though the bill expressly prohibits federal subsidies for illegals.

So where is it that says that illegal immigrants will get benefits from this health care proposal? < :-)

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they shouldn't be arguing about this. We all know they're gonna be able to get it.

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I guess Joe Wilson got to somebody.

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adaydream - Critics note that there are no enforcement mechanisms, or language on how to verify whether or not someone is in this country legally. No language enforcing/verifying = it's ok.

Paid health care for illegal immigrants will act as a catalyst. Even more, especially those from Mexico and central America, will want to go to the United States

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Wilson - 1

Obama - 0

Democrats in two House committees defeated amendments that would have required verification of legal status.

So, Joe Wilson was correct. It was only a matter of time before someone in one of his audiences had enough of Obama misrepresents and called him on it.

Obama needs to be brought up on Contempt of Congress charges for all the lies and half truths he told the other night.

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Yeah, there needs to be some kind of enforcement in place. Maybe it won't be perfect, and maybe some illegals will fall through the cracks, but asking for something as simple as a social security number is a good first step. But then again if a woman is delivering a baby and is at the door and can't provide a number, what happens next?

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Yep, Wilson was right. Obama was lying. No surprise really of course. He's trying to sell the American public a plan they would never accept if they knew what they were really getting. He has no choice but to lie.

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Obama's health care plan HAS to pass.

If it doesn't it means palin wins.

It means Joe the baldy headed unlicensed plumber from Rubetown,Ohio was right, and I was wrong.

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So is the US heading towards a national ID card? How else can the illegals be blocked from obtaining health care?

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So is the US heading towards a national ID card? " Well, many places have given them driver's licenses. there will have to be another way.

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SuperLib,

If a woman is about to deliver a baby, the Emergency Treatment Bill of 1985 would take precedence - the hospital have to take them in no matter what. Doctors cannot let a patient or non-aborted baby just die.

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If a woman is about to deliver a baby, the Emergency Treatment Bill of 1985 would take precedence - the hospital have to take them in no matter what. Doctors cannot let a patient or non-aborted baby just die.

Unless that woman and her unborn baby were in the country illegally. THEN they could be allowed to die - at least if Conservatives had their way.

Ah, land of the free, home of the brave. Goodwill towards all mankind. No means no. It just warms the cockles of the heart, it surely does.

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The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act was signed into law by a conservative GOP president. It is unfunded and most hospitals write off the costs as charity or bad debts. No one has said anything about repealling it.

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Unless that woman and her unborn baby were in the country illegally. THEN they could be allowed to die - at least if Conservatives had their way." you really been missing the point. Tell us where one person has said something to this extent. What they are saying is they need to pay for it. And child birth in the US is not expensive, in fact it is a lot cheaper than both Japan and Germany.

Ah, land of the free, home of the brave. Goodwill towards all mankind. No means no. It just warms the cockles of the heart, it surely does." Look, no one is telling you to go.

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skipthesong: "Tell us where one person has said something to this extent."... Ummm... EVERYONE who's been saying they are against illegals getting free health care has said it. Clearly, it's YOU who are missing the point; an illegal who can't afford care and gives birth on American soil (I'm not saying it's right, by any means!) may not be able to afford health care (and wouldn't be entitled anyway, being illegal), regardless of how 'inexpensive' you say it is. LFRAgain is right, if you guys had your way she would simply be left to die (and the baby, too).

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sensei258 - Republicans get so upset when they don't talk about Tort Reforms, now you want to enforse that they start looking at SSNs. You want doctors to start checking nationalities and lenagies.

Let's be correct about this. Illegals go to ERs where they don't have to show anything. But you want to try to place illegals in regular doctor's offices. You think they have health insurance? No health insurance, no cash...they don't see doctors and wouldn't fall under this health care debate.

You'll have to do better than that. < :-)

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Health Care and Emergency Medical Treatment are not synonamous. This "kick them out and let them die" talk is a crock of S***!

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If they put it in the bill that is fine. But the real problem is enforcement. The US has laws now that make being an illegal alien in the US a crime, but they are hardly enforced. They can be used as "regulatory" and "beurocratic road blocks" but you have cities like LA that whose police department has their "Special Order #40" that forbids them from asking the legal status of a person once they are arrested. Many organizations are just going to not enforce the laws.

I will still say that the best way to cut down the costs of healthcare are:

Tort Reform. Limit the amount doctors can be sued for malpractice. CA has a cap of $250,000 and the trial lawyers don't like it, but doctors malpractice insurance rates are lower there, saving the cost that we have to pay for them to make it up. Insurance reform. If an insurance company has policies on 20 million people paying premiums over a period of 10 years. I bet that during that time not all 20 million were getting expensive procedures done. I pay for health insurance, and thank God have not had to use it, but think of the money I have been paying over the years to the company. Let's see how they are spending the money. Reform how they can invest the money you submit to them and therby you won't get the "we can't pay too many claims" as many insurance companies tied to do in NO after Katrina. Not trying to take away their right to make capital, but they had better be able to invest and save money like the gov't keeps trying to push down us everyday Americans. Illegal aliens. I read somewhere that just to central American alone, illegal aliens submit about $25 billion a year in wire transfers. That's a lot of money for people who are supposedly working on the "lower rungs of the ladder." Make them pay. If they can afford to send money back home and are supposedly living in poverty in America, then I suppose if they get sick, at least they can do is miss a payment back home and pay some money to subsidise their care in the US.
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Unless that woman and her unborn baby were in the country illegally. THEN they could be allowed to die - at least if Conservatives had their way.

Nice try. Complete crap though and you all know it, but a good attempt at diversion. What is obviously being discussed here, is not emergency medical treatment, an area which by the way Japan needs to seriously address, what with the women dying in Ambulances an all. But rather these illegals getting free health insurance paid for by US Taxpayers. Insurance so they can go to the doctors office, and have the government and the taxpayers pick up the tab. They get the emergency treatment. Everyone gets that. What everyone does not get, and should not get on taxpayer money, is the doctors visits etc. And thats what would happen under Obamacare. At least in the all the bills present form. Thus, as the congressman was saying, Obama was lying. AND HE KNEW IT!

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Now Obama has gone completely off the chaart. He is now suggesting that illegal aliens can't buy insurance from private insurers. That's nuts. They're saying that was his policy all along but just wasn't articulate it. What else has he got up his sleeve???

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adaydream - "you want to enforse that they start looking at SSNs" "You want doctors to start checking nationalities and lenagies." "you want to try to place illegals in regular doctor's offices." "You think they have health insurance"

Just how did you deduce all of this from my simple statement that paid health care will attract more illegal immigrants?

"You'll have to do better than that".

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"This "kick them out and let them die" talk is a crock of S***!"

Oh? You mean like, "Death Panels?"

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"simple as a social security number is a good first step. But then again if a woman is delivering a baby and is at the door and can't provide a number, what happens next?"

This is silly. You all know what happens NOW don't you? Obama spelled it out simply. But let me break it down to everyday terms.

Patient calls ambulance for whatever complaint and gets delivered to ER. There is a cost right there. Maybe some forms are filled out while the patient waits. Social security number is requested, along with insurance provider, etc. Then the patient gets treated. Then they get billed.

If the patient does not pay, and let's just say that it is the same as can not pay, then who pays? Everybody else!! How long would a hospital last if it just ate that cost? Uh uh. Obama said people pay an extra 1000 dollars in medical costs every year, and I believe it! Illegal immigrants and emergency rooms are such a tiny part of the billions in prescription medications, elective and necessary treatments, therapy for work related and age related illness, etc.. .. it is laughable, but predictable, that XENOPHOBES would seize on this TRIVIAL matter to make a case against the bill.

Being that many of us are immigrants... Imagine what you would do if you were an illegal immigrant. Do you think you would call an ambulance for any old reason like 15 year old suburban "white" girls do? What percentage of gunshot wounds treated in ERs are illegal immigrants, do you think? Maybe 1%? Grievously injured illegal immigrants flee from traffic accident scenes rather than seeking medical care. Factor in that probably it is impossible for them to get care in the US without using ERs, and I would submit to you that if there is anyone LEAST LIKELY to abuse the US medical care system, it is illegal immigrants.

But what if Obama's plan meant that the immigrants' care were paid for? What then? First of all, if there is a false or NO SS number, then we already know that they are not eligible, so the government could just withhold the reimbursement and we are left with exactly WHAT WE HAVE NOW!!!! 950 dollars for an ambulance ride and an ampicillin prescription from an ER. Why do you think that is? Because rich, reasonably healthy people are ALREADY PAYING for people who cannot pay.

Alternatively, if the government paid, then hospital ERs would actually get money for treating the people that they already treat. Why is that a bad thing?? It means they will charge US LESS!!.

And either way, we won't have children being born in dumpsters, or people bleeding to death on the street not knowing where to go. I recommend that you visit the STUDENT DOCTORS' NETWORK, which is a forum for EMTs and MDs. It has all the horror stories and procedural knowledge you would ever want. Look at the absurd way that things are handled now and realize that change is a good thing.

This is a classic classic ploy used by Republicans to get poor, gullible people to vote AGAINST their interests. People are so afraid that Julio is going to take a slice of their pie, that they are blind to anything else, even their own best interests and those of true Americans.

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Patient calls ambulance for whatever complaint and gets delivered to ER. There is a cost right there. Maybe some forms are filled out while the patient waits.

Send the forms and the bill to you Sir, I'd rather not have that bill in mail.

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sensei258

Just how did you deduce all of this from my simple statement that paid health care will attract more illegal immigrants?

It's very easy. But, how do you suspect that illegals will be using the new health care system? How do you figure that illegals will get an entitlement to the plan?

Please explain how the republicans suspect illegals are covered. < :-)

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Alphaape

Tort reform is a red herring. Yes malpractice is a drag and it is a cost, but it does not address the nuts and bolts of health care. I dont know the exact figure, but medical practice does not turn on the small number of cases that lead to lawsuits. I would guess 95% of all money that changes hands is related to prescriptions, hospital stays, surgeries, treatments, therapies, consultations, tests, etc.

And what a can of worms. Debating whether someone who has lost a leg can sue for 1 million or 2 million is something lawyers have to figure out. Frankly it is a mess, but as we know, torts and tort-feasors are not limited to the medical profession. It is a separate issue and a separate debate that is attractive and distractive to doctors.

What this bill does address is who must pay for general medical care. I do not think it is ideal, but this is an issue that must be settled. It is only a divisive crazy issue because the US should have done it when socially advanced countries did it decades ago. In Japan, all of this stuff is just common sense, and Americans, 25% of whom are taking prescription medication today, are whining like babies afraid that they will lose their meds. It is shameful to see a nation divided by something so basic as general standards of health and hygiene.

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Sailwind, I understand you reflexively distrust and disbelieve Obama, but look around. He is not lying. Why are medical costs so high in the US? The answer is that it is all hidden. Ask yourself... how are poor people getting by TODAY? The answer is that they are waiting until they have some condition serious enough for an ER, and then they go. It is idiocy and YOU PAY FOR IT. The worst that could happen under Obama's plan is that everybody pays for it, and not just people who have to use an ER. You, Sailwind, will be better off under Obama's plan than without it.

In support of daydream... There is only one way that an illegal immigrant can get elective care, or even let's say scheduled care, without showing insurance, which would necessitate a SSN or equivalent foreign ID and a reputable insurer. That path to pro bono care is so unlikely that it makes the papers when it happens. People regard them as miracles from God when they happen. Hospitals will just not do it unless it is pro bono.. meaning that the doctor and hospital do it for free and eat the cost. I know of a few such cases, but they get so costly and complicated that a doctor with a long career will do maybe five such cases before retiring. THere is no reason to expect that the situation would be different after the Obama plan.

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Here is a link to support the position that illegal immigrants will not be covered by this health care.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2165013/are_illegal_immigrants_covered_under.html?cat=75

Where is the link to support that illegal immigrants will get help from this proposal? Rep. Joe Wilson has yet to cite it.

I want to be a learned individual. If I'm wrong, prove it. If I'm not, than it appears that the GOP has again gone to their whining tactics. < :-)

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Klein2, Tort reform is far from a Red Herring. It is the 800 pound gorrila in the room. Without tort reform, health care reform is a joke. Its just a matter of the government nationalizing the health care industry. Well over 100 billion dollars a year could be saved just from that issue alone. Add in the billions of dollars that could be saved from doctors practicing defensive medicine, and you arrive at a staggering sum. Red Herring? I don't think so. Without it, theres no point in even discussing reform.

And no, the majority of people who already have health care will in no way be better off under the current plans being discussed. As the likelihood is they will be dropped by their current insurance company and forced into a much worse public option. Managed care and rationing will become much worse, as will the wait times for care. No, only a very few will actually be helped by this so called reform. And its certainly not the American people in general.

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Doctors (and republicans want to give them) want a free pass. They want to be able to screw up royally and get away with a slap on the wrist. They want a limit of around $250,000. But when Billy gets the wrong leg amputated or they leave sponges in a patient and they have to pay over $1Million to survive, they still want some pass. < :-)

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Above post is sheer nonsense. Its like claiming he earth is flat. Sure nutters can say what they want but everyone knows it is a lie.

Just go to neural sources on reform, like AARP, to get your information and the truth. Anything that conservatives state is almost always straight from the insurance company playbook since the republicans are in the pocket of that industry.

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When will the Democratic leadership bring about real change??They enjoy a supermajority. They made promises to Hispanic voting blocs across the land.But then one repub senator calls the president a liar on TV and they cave in and close the loopholes that would have provided undocumented workers with free healthcare,paved teh way for blanket amnesty, and helped create a permanent Democratic majority.

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As the likelihood is they will be dropped by their current insurance company and forced into a much worse public option.

Actually, the most plausible reason why we'll see more people slipped from the coverage is when they get sick. Insurance companies will dump you by faulting your getting ill for your failure to file your accurate medical record submitted to your health insurance company at the time of your contract. This is why Americans are going broke for being sick, causing the number of insurance-fraud suits, and resulting in insurance companies' kick-backs-- or in other words, a price-hike for premium insurance and monthly costs 'healthy' Americans have to pay. This is no joke-- insurance companies are not giving signals to the patients-- they are giving signals to the Wall Street. I can imagine the number of uninsured individuals will rise up in the future, 1) being dropped for getting sick; 2) laid off by employer; or 3) failure to pay the increasing cost of insurance, unless the US does something to stop this vicious circle. It is this point people should pay close attention to the health care debate, whether you agree or disagree with Obama's plan.

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Heres the thing. Lets say the government passes the public option, but doesn't require anyone to take it. What do you think businesses will do? Do you think they'll keep paying for the insurance of their employees, when the government will do it for them? Obviously not. This means that just about everyone who currently has insurance, note not medicare which is already being run into bankruptcy by the governement, will lose their insurance. This is not scare tactics, its reality, plain and simple.

People when they consider this, don't want this kind of system. They're happy with their employer provided health care, which takes care of them, unless theres some catastrophic failure. And even then, frequently the insurance companies will pick up the tab for at least part of it. No, normal average Americans are much better off with their current system then if they go with a badly managed, poorly run new bureaucracy managed in the same way as the Post Office.

Tort Reform must be included for it to even be considered health care reform. Other things would truly help as well. Allowing individuals to purchase insurance from providers in other states, for example. But again, these things aren't even really up for discussion. The only things really being considered, are how government can take over and run another 1/4th of the US economy. Thats in addition to the Automotive industry already owned by the US government.

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Molenir,

" . . . the majority of people who already have health care will in no way be better off under the current plans being discussed. As the likelihood is they will be dropped by their current insurance company and forced into a much worse public option."

Yet ANOTHER assertion by folks against a national health care option without a SHRED of evidence. It's right up there with the so-called "Death Panels" that exist nowhere in the legislation.

So, where's your evidence of of some provision in the bill that force people to drop their current insurers? Where? Point out the section, paragraph, and line in the proposed bill that explicitly (or even implicitly) states this. Inquiring minds want to know.

Unless, of course, you're just parroting the intentionally false garbage being peddled in the damnable blogosphere? You know how easy it is to tell when someone's spreading bulls### around in a discussion? It's when they use phrases like "the likelihood is . . . " "Likelihood?!" On, do tell. That's as big a hint as any that you've got nuthin' to back your statement up.

"Managed care and rationing will become much worse, as will the wait times for care."

You mean "managed" like Medicare and Medicaid, where overhead costs are one-tenth those of private insurers, and wait times are negligible when compared compared to people on private insurance?

Or do you mean "managed," as in HMOs, health MANAGEMENT organizations, one of which you are probably a part of, that have panels that debate the cost-benefit of allowing people to receive life-saving procedures or medications? And STILL haven't managed to bring down health care costs, despite lobbying and advertising that claims that's the purpose of HMOs?

"No, only a very few will actually be helped by this so called reform.

Oh yes, 35-40 million Americans is but a drop in the bucket.

"And its certainly not the American people in general.

Ah, and we get right back to the crux of the argument, illegal immigrants. Again, as many a poster has asked in a myriad of ways, where, WHERE, WHERE in the proposed legislation is there a provision allowing illegal immigrants access to national insurance? WHERE?!

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LFRAgain,

WHERE, WHERE in the proposed legislation is there a provision allowing illegal immigrants access to national insurance? WHERE?!

I think the real question that should be asked is where will it state that for people to enroll in the proposed national system they must be bona-fide residents.

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"Add in the billions of dollars that could be saved from doctors practicing defensive medicine, and you arrive at a staggering sum. Red Herring? I don't think so. Without it, theres no point in even discussing reform."

You could save far more money from cutting the defense budget, but it is equally unrelated to the problem at hand. It is a red herring. Just because it is a gorilla does not mean it is relevant. I think you understand English, right? A red herring is an unrelated distraction.

Just FYI, "tort reform" is something that people have been batting around for about 40 years, and it could have been solved independently from basic health care issues. Why hasn't it? I do not particularly care. It has nothing to do with the issue of providing basic health care for the American people.

Part of the Republican strategy is to load down the bill with unrelated haggling, picking at non-issues such as death panels and immigrants. It is transparent. You are doing exactly that with tort reform.

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"When will the Democratic leadership bring about real change??They enjoy a supermajority. They made promises to Hispanic voting blocs across the land.But then one repub senator calls the president a liar on TV"

Obama is coming around to your way of thinking. He is too much like Martin Luther King... believing in working together and doing the right thing. Bipartisanship. Pelosi knows she has the votes, and she is getting impatient with him. Look at Obama's gray hair! In one year, his hair has gone totally gray. I think the honeymoon is over. Time to release the dogs and let Pelosi do it her way.

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You know how I know you are wrong? You know how I know that people will be helped and that the problems, if any, are negligible?

AARP.

That really is all that need be said. Those old fogies have gone over this bill with experts who have seen it all and done it all. They cannot be fooled. They are the core of educated conservatives and have been successful enough at negotiating and getting along that they have made it to retirement with money. Lots of it. They are such a powerful lobby that they could bat the NRA around like a ping pong ball. They want to protect their nest eggs and medical care and life from everything in the universe. That and playing golf and canasta are what they do in life.

AARP supports this bill unreservedly.

What that says to me is that the bill opposition is a lunatic fringe. Your parents and grandparents and kids are all going to be in support of this. Anyone with more teeth than tattoos will support it. Apparently the points that the fringe are objecting to are those that AARP thinks are no problem, but which Rush Limbaugh, in his infinite wisdom, sees as problematic. If AARP people thought for a minute that illegal immigrants were going to be a problem, it would be taken care of, no question.

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Anyone with more teeth than tattoos will support it.

You might want to have a little chat with these toothless folks on that one.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0909/658215.html

Happened two days ago right after his speech.

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Alphaape

I think the real question that should be asked is where will it state that for people to enroll in the proposed national system they must be bona-fide residents.

We have the doctors checking for identification. They do that already by asking for insurance cards and driver licences. Maybe we'll have side doors close to the nurses stations that are doors for illegals to slip out?

Unless you have a job and/or job related health insurance (you have to be an American citizen or legal immigrant to get a job) then people have to be buying their private insurance from insurance companies. Part of their process is gathering your SSN. No SSN or legal entrance then no insurance.

You go to the doctor with out some kind of insurance, they want "CASH" or you don't get service. Doctors aren't working for free. So at what point is the illegal immigrant getting his service?

I'm still trying to grasp where the illegal immigrants will get their service that the GOP keeps crying about. < :-)

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Sailwind, are you trying to divide by zero?

I do not see tattoos in your link. Learn some math.

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Hmmmm, I think Rush Limbaugh is an alien. If you look at him when he's red faced and really going for his point his antennas just barely poke through. He's a bad man.

Hell, I'm an old man and a member of AARP and AANR and I see nothing that is that problematic. < :-)

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You could save far more money from cutting the defense budget, but it is equally unrelated to the problem at hand. It is a red herring. Just because it is a gorilla does not mean it is relevant. I think you understand English, right? A red herring is an unrelated distraction.

Defense and Health Care are 2 totally different animals. You understand English here right. Referring to Defense alongside health care is what is known as a Red Herring. Its a distraction that has no bearing on the issue. Tort Reform however has direct impact and bearing on the issue. Please note the difference here. The one would impact health care costs, the other one wouldn't.

AARP supports this bill unreservedly.

Well thats a lie. They don't support it unreservedly, they've stated that time and again. In spite of their so called reservations, they've had many threats from their membership about this. Many of their members are now leaving AARP for other Senior Organizations.

Obama is coming around to your way of thinking. He is too much like Martin Luther King... believing in working together and doing the right thing. Bipartisanship.

This has nothing to do with being nice and working together. You have to know that right. Its all down to Politics. If the Dems can't attract even one Republican supporter, then they'll own this bill. Outright in its entirety. And when it flops, as polls are showing an very strong majority opposed to it. More then elected Obama in fact, then it will Costs the Dems in next years election. If they pass this without Rep votes, many of them could well be looking for work next election. And Pelosi will probably have a new job, as Dem Minority Leader. Though she'll probably lose that after their defeat.

daydream - I'm still trying to grasp where the illegal immigrants will get their service that the GOP keeps crying about. < :-)

Whats being argued about here, is national insurance. Where everyone is insured by the government. This is of course funded by Taxpayers. What people are saying is, that without adequate checks, illegals will be able to register in, and be a part of the system as well. Would be like getting medicare. You get it now right? Thats not so hard to understand.

Hmmmm, I think Rush Limbaugh is an alien. If you look at him when he's red faced and really going for his point his antennas just barely poke through. He's a bad man.

Though if you compare him to Obama, he looks like a Saint. You saw Obama with his little hitler mustache didn't you. (Sorry, with your crack about Limbaugh, you totally left yourself open for this.)

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Molenir I said...

Where is the disconnect and where will they get their cards if we do our job? Where are they getting registered at? <:-)

Unless you have a job and/or job related health insurance (you have to be an American citizen or legal immigrant to get a job) then people have to be buying their private insurance from insurance companies. Part of their process is gathering your SSN. No SSN or legal entrance then no insurance.

You go to the doctor with out some kind of insurance, they want "CASH" or you don't get service. Doctors aren't working for free. So at what point is the illegal immigrant getting his service?

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If republicans are so scared that illegals will get these National Insurance Cards, then they should be just as worried that illegals are getting drivers licenses or enlisting in the military or voting as republicans.

Republicans can help in the process and work this out if they didn't whine so much.

I heard that over 100 republican suggestions have been incorporated in the health plan, but they just say "NO". < :-)

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If republicans are so scared that illegals will get these National Insurance Cards, then they should be just as worried that illegals are getting drivers licenses or enlisting in the military or voting as republicans.

No illegal should be driving in the US, and it doesn't matter who they vote for, they shouldn't be voting, period. The same is true of convicted felons who have lost their right to vote. If you aren't a citizen, or aren't legally entitled to vote, then you shouldn't. And there should be mechanisms in place to ensure that only those who are legally eligible to do so, can do so.

I don't have a problem with these people enlisting in the military. Its a path to citizenship. Nor do I have a problem with people who stand in line, apply for a visa and a green card, and who work their way into the country legally. To me, following the path means they have earned their citizenship. Even more so then someone like myself who merely by virtue of having been born in the country received it. To me, those are the people who are truly Americans. I admire and respect those who struggled to come to American and earn their citizenship. I have no respect for someone who had themselves smuggled over the border. Sympathy yes, but respect no.

Republicans can help in the process and work this out if they didn't whine so much.

What process are you talking about specifically? When the Dems have yet to put forward any proposals worth considering, what is there to help with? What is there to negotiate about? Particularly when you consider that Dems have no need of Republican votes to pass whatever they want. Well, they do in the Senate for Cloture, but otherwise no. As for them incorporating Republican suggestions. Yes its true, that Republicans have been offering amendments to the various bills. If you know anything about the legislative process, you'd realize how common this is. However the ones amendments that would truly effect this legislation, and make it worth passing have all been defeated.

Where is the disconnect and where will they get their cards if we do our job? Where are they getting registered at? Unless you have a job and/or job related health insurance (you have to be an American citizen or legal immigrant to get a job) then people have to be buying their private insurance from insurance companies. Part of their process is gathering your SSN. No SSN or legal entrance then no insurance.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The reason Obama was called a liar, was that illegals would be able to aquire coverage under all the bills currently. Although I believe they've since modified the Senate version to specifically prohibit this. And to have include checks to verify citizenship. The house bills do not require this, meaning that illegals would be getting coverage. The US taxpayer which already foots the bill for their emergency treatment would now have to cover all the treatments for these individuals. That is simply unacceptable. We'll have to see what if anything comes out of the conference committee if these bills manage to pass. But I suspect any provisions barring them would likely be stripped from the final bill.

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Obama was called a Liar, because Rep. Joe Wilson is a typical selfish, greedy Republican fool! Federal money won't be given to illegal aliens for health care, it will be worded in the plan. Obama is the only President ever to make an effort to care about Americans health. Its a shame that America has went on this long, not caring for Americans health, while insurance companies got rich and dropped there clients from there plan because you needed a tooth pulled out or surgery. You had to sue the insurance companies many times to abide by there own policy rules to cover your health care cost. The health insurance and medical cost were so high, that I had to go to Mexico and get tooth surgery done for only $100 USD, it would've cost me $5000 in America to pull out an impacted tooth. Insurance companies will not cover these kinds of expensive cost without a fight, even when you've been paying them health care fees for many years. I'm tired of seeing people talk bad about Obama, when Bush drove the country into the ground with war and waste of billions of tax dollars. If it wasn't for Obama stepping in, the whole worlds economy would be wrecked accross the globe.

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Rep. Joe Wilson is a typical selfish, greedy Republican fool!

Well, I'm not gonna say that, though I agree that his outburst at the speech is utterly disturbing and problematic. South Carolina is the state where people are strongly opposing to illegal immigration along with other Red States in the South.

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At the end of the day Wilson doesn't matter.Democrats have a super majority. It's time to use it. "Rahm" health care reform through. It won't kick in til 2013 anyways,so it can't hurt Obama's chances at reelection. And, only 12 percent of the stimulus has been spent thus far.The rest is being held in reserve so it can be lavished on districts where repubs might actually mount a challenge in the 2010 mid terms.Think about it:Super majority and taxpayer-funded, bottomless war chest. Unbeatable! What is Obama waiting for...

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What do you think businesses will do? Do you think they'll keep paying for the insurance of their employees, when the government will do it for them? Obviously not.

Please explain why you think employees must drop their insurance plans in the first place when the government offers the public option. Insurance companies are very tactic and smarter than many people think. They know the government intervention will seriously affect their ordinary business, and that's why they employ several strategies to deflect the public intervention. The insurance companies will keep charging the insurance fees as usual from the individual employees or family, unless they get sick and have to take major surgeries in the future. You can trust the insurane companies to some extent, if you're enrolling in a family plan. But not sure about individual plan. And don't forget that the number of people are being laid off, and they're losing their employer's insurance because of it.

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What do you think businesses will do? Do you think they'll keep paying for the insurance of their employees, when the government will do it for them? Obviously not.

Please explain why you think employees must drop their insurance plans in the first place when the government offers the public option. Insurance companies are very tactic and smarter than many people think. They know the government intervention will seriously affect their ordinary business, and that's why they employ several strategies to deflect the public intervention. The insurance companies will keep charging the insurance fees as usual from the individual employees or family, unless they get sick and have to take major surgeries in the future. You can trust the insurane companies to some extent, if you're enrolling in a family plan. But not sure about individual plan. And don't forget that the number of people are being laid off, and they're losing their employer's insurance because of it.

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the teabaggers and their puppet masters keep rattling on about immigrants, meanwhile 45,000 Americans die a year due to lack of health coverage. 45,000.

Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

The republicans can spend $3 trillion to fight a failed war in Iraq but nothing to help 45,000 Americans a year that are dying cause insurance companies want to only make money.

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