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U.S. Navy says personnel who refuse vaccine will be expelled

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It shouldn't be a 'honorable discharge'. It should be treated as a refusal to show up fit for duty.

-5 ( +41 / -46 )

Discharged for refusing a legal order. Yeah, that will look good on subsequent employment applications.

-7 ( +33 / -40 )

"general honorable discharge"

There is an Honorable discharge. And then there is a General discharge. Which is it?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_discharge#Administrative_discharges

I wouldn't worry about losing too many people, they talk a big game until that paycheck looks like it's going to disappear.

-1 ( +24 / -25 )

They commit themselves to defend their country, giving their lives if necessary. Vaccinations is just another step for their country.

-8 ( +31 / -39 )

Military members have long been required to get a slew of vaccines. Part of the induction process, like getting your head shaved. What's the refusers' problem with this one?

9 ( +36 / -27 )

Good. Live with the consequences of your choices.

-14 ( +26 / -40 )

Sailors and Marines who refuse the vaccine while forgetting the dozen or so vaccines they already had, then go chugging 5 Monster Energy cans and 2 packs of Marlboro Reds a day, then finish with a 12 pack in the squad bay…. But at least they show up for 0430AM PT.

We must’ve been the most physically fit alcoholic chain smokers, ever….

4 ( +25 / -21 )

That port also looks awfully small to handle carrier support operations.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Outside the Navy 'free' individuals rarely have meals provided for them, and almost always have to pay for their healthcare.

But he can be 'free' so he join the far right hordes of his fellow freedom moaners, maybe become a hero to them just like the Qanon Shaman plus Steve 'Hollywood' Bannon and his Chinese billionaire partner. And he can also join the Proud Boys or one of the other far right organizations pushing to further undermine the US and democracy. Mayb we will see him at the next Trump rally.

thank you for leaving the service.

-11 ( +15 / -26 )

Probably better in the end for these personal, they won't get sent off to slaughter or be slaughtered in America's next unjust war.

9 ( +28 / -19 )

Good to see. You simply cannot have anti-vaxxers defending their nation when they refuse to take simple precautions and are at much greater risk of being incapacitated.

They have no right to continue sponging off the taxpayer.

What is certain is that anti-vaxxers will moan and whine about this sensible decision.

-10 ( +19 / -29 )

Any serving personnel who don’t get vaccinated are like a Trojan horse, attacking the country from within.

They should get a dishonorable discharge!!!

-9 ( +22 / -31 )

What's the refusers' problem with this one?

Trump

2 ( +25 / -23 )

So, if you want to get out of the Navy, this is the way to get discharged.

31 ( +38 / -7 )

Sounds like an easy way to get out of a four year contract early.

19 ( +34 / -15 )

The world is getting smaller for the anti vaccine cult. Great isn't it!

-8 ( +22 / -30 )

General under honorable conditions is fine for now.

Especially when it’s publicly known it’s only for refusing COVID vaccine.

once the vaccine mandate push is found unlawful, the discharge can be upgraded anyway.

hundreds of thousands of military will just be released? I doubt it.

-2 ( +18 / -20 )

hundreds of thousands of military will just be released? I doubt it.

I doubt it too. Anti vaxxers are a much smaller minority than you imagine.

-3 ( +17 / -20 )

Hundreds of thousands of military have yet to be vaccinated. Fact.

-4 ( +16 / -20 )

Especially when it’s publicly known it’s only for refusing COVID vaccine.

In general this is not a reason that people find particularly justifiable, specially now that the different vaccines have proved to be quite effective at preventing serious health problems and death. It says a lot about a person when this is the reason they choose to abandon a career that they supposedly were dedicating their lives to.

-3 ( +15 / -18 )

How about before going to war with your enemy, showing your vaccine passport to each other.

17 ( +20 / -3 )

Hundreds of thousands of military have yet to be vaccinated. Fact.

And they all told you they’d quit did they?

0 ( +15 / -15 )

Hundreds of thousands of military have yet to be vaccinated. Fact.

Thanks for your concern, these numbers will go down to a few hundreds once the deadline closes in.

-1 ( +14 / -15 )

Hundreds of thousands of military have yet to be vaccinated. Fact.

America is running less wars now. Seems like an easy way to scale down on personnel - let them quit because they aren't willing to get vaccinated.

-5 ( +11 / -16 )

Whole squads of navy SEALS are quitting too rather than be forced to be injected with these vaccines. Good luck replacing them, it’s already difficult to fill those elite ranks.

-1 ( +18 / -19 )

Natural immunity. Don’t need vaccine.

Since the pandemic began, about a quarter-million service members have been infected with the virus,

-2 ( +19 / -21 )

I remember getting 5 shots in one day for basic that were mandatory. I don't see why getting another one should cause such a fuss.

8 ( +22 / -14 )

Apparently there are significant numbers of Republicans who are getting so frustrated with the right-wing response to the pandemic, than they're actively campaigning for people to go democrat.

I think they'll all be ok with this.

-7 ( +12 / -19 )

Simple. those 5 shots had not been created in the year before they were made “mandatory”.

-1 ( +18 / -19 )

Natural immunity. Don’t need vaccine.

That is something that should be proved scientifically, natural immunity from mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic cases is not the same as the immunity patients get after a month in the ICU because of the infection, without repeated serum testing (by itself the testing can have more proven risks than the vaccine) you can't say this.

Good luck replacing them, it’s already difficult to fill those elite ranks

Why would you like to replace people unable to make rational decisions or follow valid orders?

-5 ( +15 / -20 )

@Strangeland Apparently there are significant numbers of Republicans who are getting so frustrated with the right-wing response to the pandemic, than they're actively campaigning for people to go democrat.

Sources?

8 ( +15 / -7 )

I'm not seeing the problem here. There are no wars going on right now, and slimming down the troops will slim down the payroll. With an advancing debt deadline, this will extend the amount of time before America goes bankrupt. It's a win-win for all parties.

-8 ( +11 / -19 )

Hundreds of thousands of military have yet to be vaccinated. Fact.

Did you read the article? It’s very informative. Has some exact figures in fact.

If they can’t follow orders enjoy civvy life and not being allowed to own a firearm again. Sounds like a good idea actually.

0 ( +13 / -13 )

@Strangeland Apparently there are significant numbers of Republicans who are getting so frustrated with the right-wing response to the pandemic, than they're actively campaigning for people to go democrat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/23/anger-targets-vaccine-holdouts-delta-surge/

-6 ( +10 / -16 )

Except that “use the military instead” is given as the solution for all the doctors/nurses and hospital staff being fired.

also the option for the supply chain crisis and the cancellation of flights and every other Biden incompetence.

2 ( +15 / -13 )

Except that “use the military instead” is given as the solution for all the doctors/nurses and hospital staff being fired.

Can't use unvaccinated doctors/nurses anyways, so they're irrelevant.

-8 ( +11 / -19 )

Pretty sad state of a nation that they've let it fall apart to the point that they need military to run supply lines and be medics. All in red states at that.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

New York, actually. But nice misinfo.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-may-tap-national-guard-replace-unvaccinated-healthcare-workers-2021-09-26/

8 ( +20 / -12 )

Natural immunity. Don’t need vaccine.

Pesky side-effects like debilitating side-effects like long-haul and death be damned.

Yeah, that makes total sense.

-7 ( +8 / -15 )

So, 96% vaccination isnt enough to provide herd immunity? To a population of mostly young and healthy people? Seriously, this isn't about health any more. It is about compliance and "shut up, he explained".

I am also amazed at the cheap shots being taken here at military personnel. And the inevitable specter of Don's Law rearing its ugly head.

8 ( +21 / -13 )

Apparently there are significant numbers of Republicans who are getting so frustrated with the right-wing response to the pandemic, than they're actively campaigning for people to go democrat.

Who are you kidding? Liz Cheney?

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

BeerDeliveryGuyToday  07:56 am JST

That port also looks awfully small to handle carrier support operations.

It was an unscheduled forced port call due to an onboard Covid outbreak.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

The is the least of your worries for health and safety if you are in the military...LLF!!! :D

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

“Study shows natural immunity is 7 times more protective than Pfizer vaccine”

science.

3 ( +19 / -16 )

These people are nuts! They’re going to lose more and more people and then when we really need them, we’re gonna be in trouble, this is going to backfire on the ministration so badly, just a few more months before 2022

1 ( +19 / -18 )

It is about compliance and "shut up, he explained".

Again, that is the basic concept of the military. If you can’t do what you are told you shouldn’t be there.

-9 ( +8 / -17 )

It seems that Americans in many walks of life are starting to push back against unreasonable and possibly illegal mandates. Health care workers, pilots, air traffic controllers, all are voting with their feet.

It is apparent that the government cares more about compliance than actually helping America recover. Politicians aren't used to being told "no" and it irritates them, especially when told "no" by the ungrateful peasants who put them in office.

6 ( +19 / -13 )

@Strangeland @Strangeland Apparently there are significant numbers of Republicans who are getting so frustrated with the right-wing response to the pandemic, than they're actively campaigning for people to go democrat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/23/anger-targets-vaccine-holdouts-delta-surge/

Seriously, that’s your source?? You give new meaning to the word “apparently”.

10 ( +20 / -10 )

“Study shows natural immunity is 7 times more protective than Pfizer vaccine”

A lot of anti-vaxxers have found that out the hard way. Many tried and failed.

-5 ( +13 / -18 )

Typical majority behavior. If we vaccinated were still only a few, we surely would be saying that all more silently and of course not hailing this new vaccine dominated dictatorship. We would probably similarly oppose and condemn it. Some unvaccinated are even excluded from supermarkets now in other countries, unbelievable…

6 ( +15 / -9 )

The unvaccinated make up a very large proportion of the less intelligent and temperamentally unbalanced.

I imagine the types that will be trimmed aren’t the best among them.

It’s cruel in a way, but societies can’t keep on mollycoddling them.

-7 ( +13 / -20 )

It was an unscheduled forced port call due to an onboard Covid outbreak.

Must’ve been a real emergency. The deep water channel looks frighteningly narrow for a carrier, and there are visible reefs all around.

The drop off from the shallow reefs to the channel would make for some good fishing, however.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

These people are nuts!

Totally agree, the unvaccinated are just nuts.

They’re going to lose more and more people and then when we really need them, we’re gonna be in trouble,

I think healthy soldiers are more important than unhealthy ones. Kicking out the few unhealthy ones is fine I think.

this is going to backfire on the ministration so badly, just a few more months before 2022

Are we fighting a war in 2022?

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

 Kicking out the few unhealthy ones is fine I think.

except that hundreds of thousands are not a "few".

And being unvaccinated has nothing to do with the health of a person or even their COVID status.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

The same Navy poked my arm with all manner of vaccines to protect not just me but the whole force from possible epidemics. There were no exemptions offered. You either accepted the vaccines or were separated. Since this was usually during the first week of training the Navy wasn't out a lot of money if someone refused. There is no valid reason for any service member who has been vaccinated with all the other vaccines the military requires to refuse a Covid-19 vaccine. If any refuse, discharge them and bid adieu.

1 ( +14 / -13 )

The unvaccinated make up a very large proportion of the less intelligent and temperamentally unbalanced. 

No, they make up the number of Americans that believe the government has absolutely no right to tell them what drugs goes into their bodies and thank God more and more people are resisting this. You inform people and then you let them decide, they talk with their doctor and then decide what is the best option.

I imagine the types that will be trimmed aren’t the best among them. 

No, they’re losing a lot of great people, people that are in senior positions and with years of military experience and they’re willing to throw it all away and push these irreplaceable people. Authoritative at its worst.

1 ( +18 / -17 )

HelixToday  08:56 am JST

Whole squads of navy SEALS are quitting too rather than be forced to be injected with these vaccines. Good luck replacing them, it’s already difficult to fill those elite ranks.

Do you have a credible source for this?

1 ( +15 / -14 )

Good decision.

-7 ( +11 / -18 )

Must’ve been a real emergency. The deep water channel looks frighteningly narrow for a carrier, and there are visible reefs all around

That is the carrier pier at Apra Harbor Guam. The photo is a little misleading. It is a well protected deep water harbor. The telephoto lens used makes that reef appear lot closer than it really is.

-3 ( +12 / -15 )

“Study shows natural immunity is 7 times more protective than Pfizer vaccine”

Natural immunity gained from a Covid-19 infection only lasts six to eight months. Too many Americans have had two cases of Covid-19 to consider "natural immunity" to be reliable.

0 ( +14 / -14 )

once the vaccine mandate push is found unlawful

Pffftt hahahaha

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

The world is getting smaller for the anti vaccine cult. Great isn't it!

and if the World was left to you, it would play out like this:

Come here boy! It ain't gonna hurt you a bit. Jerry! Rick! Grab him and hold him down! Dr. Smith, he's ready. Grab the needle! Tom, bring the truck round back. We will drop him off in the woods as soon as this crybaby gets the jab.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

We can't have our military hampered by the unvaccinated. They need to be removed.

-2 ( +13 / -15 )

"You can have a vaccine that is safe and incredibly effective or you can get "natural immunity."

With "natural immunity" there is about a 2% chance you will die and about a 30% chance you will have some type of long haul syndrome."

"I will take natural immunity!" said no sentient being ever.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

except that hundreds of thousands are not a "few".

Which will be down to a few hundred soon, courage is not something most antivaxxers are known for!! And the Navy probably kicks out more for disciplinary reasons!!!

And being unvaccinated has nothing to do with the health of a person or even their COVID status.

Being susceptible to an infection is unhealthy!!

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

except that hundreds of thousands are not a "few".

Again. Read the article. Your numbers are way off.

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

No war with China then?

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

As usual, the vituperative left cannot see any valid reason that someone would disagree with them. They would rather smugly call them ignorant, stupid, anti-vaxx....

I think people should make up their own minds, based on their individual circumstances. Elderly and/or sick folks should get it. Young and healthy? It is not such a cut and dried decision. What I DO know is that the government is moving way too fast on mandates, and taking excessively punitive action on those who dare defy them. Which tells me the issue isn'T the vaccine, it is the defiance.

3 ( +13 / -10 )

When was the last time you received a Smallpox, Measles or Polio 'booster'?

Its weird, isn’t it? Almost as if those diseases were beaten by something. And no, it wasn’t herd immunity.

Why do people think vaccine hesitancy is something new? A small vocal minority opposed polio vaccines too, they were wrong.

-3 ( +10 / -13 )

Attillathehungry: I think people should make up their own minds

Me, too. Except for the ones who think getting the vax will make their testicles swell and make them infertile. In that situation the government needs to step in and help the stupid and protect them from us.

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

The US Navy

Total U.S. Navy Battle Force:294

Ships Underway

Deployed Ships Underway 62

Non-deployed Ships Underway 37

Total Ships Underway 99

The majority of vessels are in ports.

https://news.usni.org/2021/10/14/usni-news-fleet-and-marine-tracker-oct-14-2021#more-89132

This year, sailors have died from covid.

"Sailors must be prepared to execute their mission at all times, in places throughout the world, including where vaccination rates are low and disease transmission is high,” according to the Navy news release issued today. “Immunizations are of paramount importance to protecting the health of the force and the warfighting readiness of the Fleet.”

"As of Wednesday, 94 percent of active-duty sailors have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19, with 99 percent having received the first dose, according to the Navy."

https://news.usni.org/2021/10/14/new-navy-guidance-will-discharge-sailors-refusing-covid-19-vaccination-without-exemption#more-89131

Looks like the refusal numbers will be very low.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

No, you should follow the advice of your doctor

The vast majority of doctors will tell you to get vaccinated. You know this and I suspect you are already vaccinated.

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

bass4funk

Follow the advice of your leader.

No, you should follow the advice of your doctor

Is that the same doctor who tested you and treated you for covid when you contracted an infection but not serious enough for hospitalization? Now you would have antibodies but not as strong as having the vaccination.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

Now you would have antibodies

I am good to go.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

Military members have long been required to get a slew of vaccines. Part of the induction process, like getting your head shaved. What's the refusers' problem with this one?

It's a brand new and completely different vaccine, with severe adverse effects that off the charts. They have very legitimate reasons for refusing it.

They commit themselves to defend their country, giving their lives if necessary.

Yeah, they always say they are fighting for our freedoms. Seems they should be doing their stuff at home, where freedoms are being lost.

These people are nuts! They’re going to lose more and more people and then when we really need them, we’re gonna be in trouble, this is going to backfire on the ministration so badly, just a few more months before 2022

Yes, it does seem they are intentionally trying to weaken the military.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

U.S. Navy. 336,978 personnel on active duty and 101,583 in the Ready Reserve.

Only 20,218 sailors were not fully vaccinated. 3,368 sailors who have not had a single jab.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Again. Read the article. Your numbers are way off.

Nope. Hundreds of thousands of military.

https://www.stripes.com/covid/2021-10-10/us-military-covid-vaccine-mandate-unvaccinated-3191964.html

"Hundreds of thousands of US troops have not yet complied with vaccine mandate as deadlines near"

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

If we look at your comments here, pretty even split.

250 and over

189 and over.

Pretty even split.

What is interesting. Is how the department of Navy is running the punishment concept here.

People expelled for refusing the vaccine will receive a general honorable discharge, but could lose certain benefits or be forced to repay the cost of training and education in some cases, the statement said.

This is fair actually. My military spidy sense tells me bye bye GI money. And BHA? But were not going to hamper you life with a DD 256A A stands for ALL DONE! TOAST No ones going hire you.

And some money back for the Pentagon coffers..

Vice Admiral John Nowell, the chief of naval personnel, said the navy force has been hit with 164 coronavirus deaths since the pandemic began.

Does this include the Corps? Sad those service passed. RIP.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Only 20,218 sailors were not fully vaccinated. 3,368 sailors who have not had a single jab.

guess you dont realize that on a ship of 400, the loss of even 5 people can be critical and impactful on the mission.

so "only" 20,000+ is not really an accurate representation of the impact. Now do the Air Force, which is "only" 60,000. plus "only" 28% of the entire Marine Corps.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Blacklabel

Again. Read the article. Your numbers are way off.

Nope. Hundreds of thousands of military.

https://www.stripes.com/covid/2021-10-10/us-military-covid-vaccine-mandate-unvaccinated-3191964.html

"Hundreds of thousands of US troops have not yet complied with vaccine mandate as deadlines near"

My figures are correct because the topic of the post is the U.S. Navy, not the other services.

The info from

https://news.usni.org/2021/10/14/new-navy-guidance-will-discharge-sailors-refusing-covid-19-vaccination-without-exemption#more-89131

is reliable.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

with severe adverse effects that off the charts

No, no adverse side effects that are off the charts in my case. Just slightly sore arm after the first one and a 0.4 degree higher temperature for an hour after the second one. So don't worry, your testicles will not become basketball size....

6 ( +11 / -5 )

hundreds of thousands of military will just be released? I doubt it.

What is it with people that have a hard time reading articles being sticking their feet in their mouth?

Or perhaps they did read it, and didnt understand what they read?

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

This seems reasonable. I had considered joining the US Army once and I saw all of the vaccines I would have to get, also the soldiers in Desert Storm received some bug repellants that you probably cannot sell commercially. It was quite eye opening.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It's understandable. Having armed forces easily vulnerable to sickness is no use to anyone, except your enemy.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

These people are nuts! They’re going to lose more and more people and then when we really need them, we’re gonna be in trouble, this is going to backfire on the ministration so badly, just a few more months before 2022

there are already about 15 different disease that are mandatory to be vaccinated against to join the US military, whats 1 more !?

midterms still over a year away, not that will matter with the pandemic or being vaccinated, 3 or more long years as Biden is your president. lol

2 ( +9 / -7 )

No, no adverse side effects that are off the charts in my case. Just slightly sore arm after the first one and a 0.4 degree higher temperature for an hour after the second one. So don't worry, your testicles will not become basketball size....

same here nothing 1st shot 2nd shot , no temperature , but felt a little down like the start of a cold, lasted about 4 yrs, good as gold after that. Ive actually had a more sore arm from the flu shot

5 ( +10 / -5 )

once the vaccine mandate push is found unlawful, the discharge can be upgraded anyway.

hundreds of thousands of military will just be released? I doubt it.

wrong it has already been proven constitutional in previous court cases, more than once.

https://miscellanynews.org/2021/09/22/opinions/is-the-federal-vaccine-mandate-constitutional-yes-and-history-says-so/

hundred of thousands!? you didn't read the article

The navy said that 98 percent of its 350,000 active duty members had begun or completed the vaccination process.

For the U.S. military overall, Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Tuesday that 96.7 percent of the nearly 1.4 million active duty personnel had received at least one dose, and 83.7 percent two doses.

Got to love antivaxxers so easy to prove them wrong with facts and science lol

3 ( +9 / -6 )

its a well known fact that some of the vaccines that the USA military has administered to personnel has caused health problems and birth defects.

the desert storm vaccine just one to mention.

when joining the military its a devotion of life to serve so they make the rules.

its to be expected.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

guess you dont realize that on a ship of 400, the loss of even 5 people can be critical and impactful on the mission.

ROFL, let me explain the impact of the tsentsnce.

Imagine one person falling sick and spreading it to 8 people on the ship, who spread it to another 8 people..........

So dont you agree if these people were vaccinated the mission would be safe!

1 ( +8 / -7 )

*sentence

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

“Study shows natural immunity is 7 times more protective than Pfizer vaccine”

From people that were symptomatic enough to be seen by a doctor or even hospitalized, and against one single vaccine, halft a year after beginning vaccination. Those are very important qualifiers that you intentionally left out of your argument.

It's a brand new and completely different vaccine, with severe adverse effects that off the charts. They have very legitimate reasons for refusing it.

False information, the vaccine is not related to any special amount of side effects, that is all in the population being vaccinated, as expected when you choose to vaccinate old people with many preexisting conditions first. This is just a terribly obvious disinformation attempt from antivaxxer groups, as valid as crying in fear because adult diapers have 1000 times the death rate than baby diapers.

Yes, it does seem they are intentionally trying to weaken the military.

The vaccine refusers are much more likely to weaken the military, but fortunately they apparently are a very tiny minority so there may not be any noticeable effect on expelling them.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Blacklabel

Only 20,218 sailors were not fully vaccinated. 3,368 sailors who have not had a single jab.

guess you dont realize that on a ship of 400, the loss of even 5 people can be critical and impactful on the mission.

That is not very correct. Not all Navy service people serve on ships. There are many land-based sailors who do admin, healthcare, JAGS, and NCIS among others. Some work in the Pentagon and White House.

At the moment, out of 297 vessels there are only 99 undeway or at sea.

99% with a single jab. 1% not is less than the numbers who retire or leave the service every year. There are also 100,000 reservists that can be called up.

Guess you have never spent any time in the service.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

From people that were symptomatic enough to be seen by a doctor or even hospitalized, and against one single vaccine, halft a year after beginning vaccination. 

no one who was not symptomatic enough to go to the doctor would be dumb enough to think they had natural immunity.

Against the BEST vaccine. Probably even MORE against the poorer ones.

it will be 6 months after vaccination for everyone, at some point.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

“I was only following orders.”

Try reading up on some history, my friend.

Totally lost it.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

apparently are a very tiny minority 

can people not comprehend what hundreds of thousands of military means?

or does this word "apparently" that people keep using actually mean "Ok, Im about to share some misinformation with you next"

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

no one who was not symptomatic enough to go to the doctor would be dumb enough to think they had natural immunity.

You would be surprised to find out that this is very common, with even commenters here defending this as "natural immunity", And again, to demonstrate the immunity is at least on par of what is obtained by vaccination it would be requrided to be serially tested for antibody levels, and the testing along can brin more risks than the vaccination, which was supposed to be the whole point of refusing.

Against the BEST vaccine. Probably even MORE against the poorer ones.

"probably" means absolutely nothing without evidence to prove it, and no, there is no "best" vaccine, that is just a fake argument from antivaxxers, there are vaccines that produce higher, longer lasting immunity, there are vaccines that are cheaper or easier to keep, there are vaccines related to less negative side effects, but there is not any single vaccine that is better than all the others in every single aspect.

If you choose to compare immunity with the vaccine that focused on less side effects by giving a much lesser dose that would mean the opposite of your beliefs is more likely to be true.

it will be 6 months after vaccination for everyone, at some point.

That is as valid as saying that it will be 6 months after infection for everybody, at some point (whatever "at some point" means that apparently is not 6 months after).

*can people not comprehend what hundreds of thousands of military means?*

If there are people that fail to understand the meaning of 96.7% it would not be surprising, but the argument is still valid, the refusers do not represent a more than a minority of the military, and more importantly, not the most rational thinking part of it.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I was on a cruiser with over 400 people, if you have ever had the chance to tour a warship you'll fully understand what close quarters means. Refusing the vaccine in those conditions warrants discharge. The carrier pictured above probably has a crew of over 6,500. It's really just common sense.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

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