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U.S. seeks to shore up support for tough Iran stance

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Israel, which has hinted that it might attack if negotiations to contain Iran’s nuclear ambitions failed

That would be the second time that Israel, which has a nuclear weapons program, attacks the nuclear facilities (not weapons-related) of a nation that is member of the NPT and allowing inspections.

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In the end it all boils down to what China will allow in the Security Council. If we can't get China to agree we are helpless in getting stronger measures.

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China will agree or face the concenquences, they can buy their own products for a year or two and when their economy is in shambles, and their citizens are revolting in the streets. reflect if blocking against against the USA was a good idea. America is based in Iraq and Afghanistan, both countries conveniently circle Iran.

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Typical American bullying and intimidation. I'd be building nukes, too, if I was in Iran's position, although I would've built them a lot sooner.

Let them have their nukes. If they use them, they get wiped of the map. Period.

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sabiwabi at 09:06 AM JST - 15th February

Israel, which has hinted that it might attack if negotiations to contain Iran’s nuclear ambitions failed

That would be the second time that Israel, which has a nuclear weapons program, attacks the nuclear facilities (not weapons-related) of a nation that is member of the NPT and allowing inspections.

The hand writing is on the wall Iran stated, its, supreme will to remove Israel from the world map. In retrospect that might not have been a smart thing to say.

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The hand writing is on the wall Iran stated, its, supreme will to remove Israel from the world map. In retrospect that might not have been a smart thing to say.

But they NEVER said it. It is a lie that is being repeated every time they want an excuse to attack Iran.

but the Islamic republic is believed headed toward having nuclear weapons capability in perhaps a few years—estimates vary as to when.

Believed by whom? And based on what? Are these more lies as those used to attack Iraq?

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Of course, it is quite well known that the government has and continues to encourage the idea of destroying the state of Israel. Recently, Iranian leaders have repeated this idea quite clearly. It is an irresponsible thing to state as a the government of a country. In addition, Iran sponsors both Hamas and Hezbollah in their efforts to destroy the state of Israel. Iran should really worry about its own affairs and stop encouraging attempts to destroy Israel. Then people would not say they are trying to wipe Israel off the map.

According to this very article, it seems there are plenty of other countries in the Middle East aside from Israel that are plenty concerned about Iran's nuclear ambitions. Again, the fact that they sponsor groups trying to destroy a Middle Eastern country probably factor greatly in their fears. The IAEA remains concerned about Iran's nuclear program as well as is demonstrated in their reports about Iran:

"As detailed in the Director General’s previous reports to the Board (most recently in GOV/2009/55, para. 18), there remain a number of outstanding issues which give rise to concerns, and which need to be clarified to exclude the existence of possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme."

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sabi: That would be the second time that Israel, which has a nuclear weapons program, attacks the nuclear facilities...

Actually, it would be the third time including Syria's nuclear facility. Well done Israel. Islamic nations must never be allowed to possess nuclear facilities.

Israel, which has hinted that it might attack if negotiations to contain Iran’s nuclear ambitions failed

Is there actually anyone naive enough to believe you can negotiate with an Islamic terrorist nation like Iran?

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Take them out is what I would encourage the Israels to do.

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If we consider UNSC 487

... 4. Fully recognises the inalienable sovereign right of Iraq, and all other States, especially the developing countries, to establish programmes of technological and nuclear development to develop their economy and industry for peaceful purposes in accordance with their present and future needs and consistent with the internationally accepted objectives of preventing nuclear-weapons proliferation;

.5. Calls upon Israel urgently to place its nuclear facilities under IAEA safeguards;

and if we consider the Symington Amendment (Section 669 of the Foreign Assistance Act), which banned U.S. economic, and military assistance, and export credits to countries that deliver or receive, acquire or transfer nuclear enrichment technology when they do not comply with IAEA regulations and inspections.

... one should wonder why the US wants to sanction Iran and aid Israel, when it should clearly do the oposite.

If we avoid all the lies and propaganda, Iran is a peace loving nation. That is something that does not apply to most other nations mentioned in the article.

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It is obvious that one of the main reasons for suspicion against Iran and not Israel in this regard is that Israel's government has not talked about working to make another country 'disappear' as Iran's has done. Iran has admitted to sponsoring both Hamas and Hezbollah and has encouraged other Muslim countries to work together to bring about the destruction of Israel. These cdrtainly do not seem like the words or actions of a country looking for peace. It is interesting to note that, except for Iran, no other nation mentioned in the article has a government that has suggested that another nation be destroyed.

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sabi: Iran is a peace loving nation.

LOL!

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OK, so it seems the only things we have going against Iran are a few ALLEGED comments. People are considering attacking Iran for that? Once you see that those alleged comments are bogus, you're left with no excuse to attack or impose sanctions.

Lets not forget that Iran does not have a UN report accusing it of war crimes, is not ignoring countless UNSC resolutions, has not for several decades been actively wiping any nation off the map or illegally occupying someone else's land....

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Sadly for anyone attempting to defend the present Iranian government neither the Iranian government's recents calls to other Muslim countries to work together to attempt to destroy Israel nor the Iranian government's admittions that they sponsor both Hamas and Hezbollah 'alleged'. They are facts and are confirmed by the Iranian government's own words.

Let's not forget that this article is about Iran and not about Israel, which is a country that has nothing to do with Iran and about which Iran should not be making suggestions of destruction or supporting groups that only make peace in the Middle East that much more difficult.

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sabi: Lets not forget that Iran does not have a UN report accusing...

Everyone knows the UN is a complete joke and not to be taken seriously. It's no wonder you use them in your arguments. :-D

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Well, the declared policy of Iran is "that the 5 million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes, and then the entire people on those lands hold a referendum and choose their own system of government. This is a democratic and popular way." Ahmadinejad predicts that the occupying regime in Jerusalem will vanish BY DEMOCRACY. They have never vowed to wipe Israel off the map militarily.

So if you look at it carefully, there are no valid reasons to impose sanctions against Iran, and even less to attack it.

Everyone knows the UN is a complete joke and not to be taken seriously.

I partly agree, since they are very selective about who gets sanctioned/attacked when their resolutions are allegedly not followed.

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My guess is that tougher sanctions will come. China is too pragmatic to say no. They might be pissed off about a lot of things concerning the West but making it easier for Iran to acquire nukes isn't going to solve any of them.

Iran is boxing themselves into a corner and I say we let them continue. They've lost the support of Russia, they're losing the support of China, they're losing the support of pretty much everyone else in the Middle East, and they're losing the support of their own people. If they want to continue to hang themselves then I say we keep giving them rope.

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are you guys aware of how many people in Israel are of Iranian decent? Saying that Israel wants to attack Iran for, as Sabi likes to put it, no reason at all is absurd.

As for his rant that they never claimed to wipe Israel off the map, then why are so many Iranian neighbors confirming such?

No sanction is going to work. All we can really do is wait for them to use a nuke on someone.

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As most rational people know, Ahmadinejad has never refuted what the Iranian Republic News Agency reported him saying and has never specifically claimed he was misquoted, misunderstood or that he meant something very peaceful and different. This is the leader of a country suggesting another country disappear and then supporting groups, Hamas and Hezbollah, which are actively trying to destroy Israel and have that as part of their charter. However, it is also interesting to note that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei saying that'Israel’s obliteration is certain' does not help peace in the region either.

So, on one side we have Iran saying that a fellow Middle Eastern country's obliteration is certain and backing this up with support for groups seeking to obliterate said country. On the other hand, we have Israel saying if you attempt to build weapons to use against us we will destroy them (not your country, but the weapons). If Iran would like to be seen as a peaceful neighbor in the Middle East, toning down the obliteration rhetoric would go a long way in doing so.

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Just to add, in January of this year, Khamenei had this peaceful message for Israel, the Middle East and the world: "Definitely, the day will come when nations of the region will witness the destruction of the Zionist regime," Khamenei was quoted as saying. "How soon or late (Israel's demise) will happen depends on how Islamic countries and Muslim nations approach the issue."

So, there certainly is no doubt as to the attitude of the government of Iran toward Israel and it is certainly not to encourage peace. This is probably why Iran finds it hard to find countries in the Middle East that feel they are safe to be around nuclear weapons or the possibility of nuclear weapons. I can see how these countries might feel this way.

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Ahmadinejad has never refuted what the Iranian Republic News Agency reported....

You are wrong. The quote I provided above is exactly what he said when asked about the "wipe Israel off the map". So he did refute it, so did his government.

Anyway, I previously wrote the following:

"Actually, if you go to Wikipedia (which is very much pro-Israel, IMO) under "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel", they give quite a good explanation of what was said, and it does appear that there was a big "misinterpretation". He is basically predicting that the regime occupying Jerusalem will vanish through DEMOCRACY if the Palestinians are allowed to return to their homes.

Ahmadinejad:"Our suggestion is that the 5 million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes, and then the entire people on those lands hold a referendum and choose their own system of government. This is a democratic and popular way."

The MOD felt that was "off topic" but somehow feels everyone repeating the "wipe off the map" lie are on topic!!!

So Ahmadinejad predicts the regime will vanish if democracy is restored! That is no reason to attack Iran. Wikipedia ("Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel") provides many sources pointing to it being a misinterpretation/mistranslation.

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Sabi, you are the one who told us that wiki is NOT a good source ages ago.

Now are you, in your own op, that if given the chance, he would not drop anything on Israel?

BTW, if he did drop on Israel, wouldn't he also be hurting the Palestinians?

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The quote I provided above is exactly what he said when asked about the "wipe Israel off the map".

Exactly. Thank you. He did not refute it. He did not say, 'No, I did not mean that. Iran would never suggest Israel should be wiped off the face f the earth.' He went off on a tangent and never answered the question directly even after it was repeated several times. Also, Khamenei's quotes from this year certainly make it clear that popular interpretations, including that of Iran's own governmental news agency, the IRNA, of Ahmadinejad's comments four and a half years ago were also correct.

It is not up to Iran to decide which countries get to stay and which countries disappear in the region. Israel is a legitimate UN recognized country and Iran must to recognize it as such. Khamenei's recent comments about Israel and Iran's continued sponsoring of Hamas and Hezbollah, who both have as their goals the destruction of Israel, leave no doubt as to Iran's intentions. In this case, both Iran's actions and word speak extremely loudly and clearly. If Iran would like to really start helping the Palestinians, it is time they stop encouraging violence on the part of Hamas and Hezbollah and started encouraging real talks for real peace between Israel and Palestine side-by-side.

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Our suggestion is that the 5 million Palestinian refugees come back to their homes

Why in the world would you want to flood a high-tech industrial nation like Israel with Muslim Arabs who would turn it back into a desert? The Muslim Arabs couldn't have cared less about the land prior to the existance of Israel.

Anyway, these 5 million "Palestinians" are primarily Muslim Arabs from Egypt and Jordan who came to the West Bank and Gaza to find work in Israel. I do support their "Right of Return" back to Egypt and Jordan, but even they don't want them.

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I wonder if this is a ploy to raise the price of crude oil? What else can the world do to Iran before cutting off their right to export oil? Even other sanctions would have the effect of reducing the production of oil due to a lack of spare parts. The talk about Israel and the "Palestinians" seems to be "off topic". About an Iranian bomb, the best yield they can hope for would be about 15kts. It would be huge and hard to deliver. This would not destroy Israel but their counter strike with H bombs would destroy Iran's cities and their country. Once its cools off its oil would be available for production.

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skipthesong said:

All we can really do is wait for them to use a nuke on someone.

What an infantile comment.

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