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U.S. walks out on Ahmadinejad U.N. speech after 9/11 remark

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America walked out again? This is becoming like an annual charade. Some of the other comments the Iranian president made were bang on target, especially '...some equated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs.' and 9-11 becoming a sacred issue.

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I suggest prior to Mr. Ahmadinejad's next visit to NY, a trap door be installed at the speaker's podium, underneath of which lurk several hungry crocodiles. (On second thought, he would almost certainly give them indigestion, which would constitute cruelty to animals.)

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Pathological liar.

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The truth seems to scare people. Look into 911 in detail and you will find he is speaking the truth!!!!

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Why were they even talking about 9/11 anyway? It's true, some DO say that the US was actually behind the attacks; that doesn't mean you bring it up at a UN meeting and then make some weird jump in logic that it was to guarantee Israel's survival. What an idiot.

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The entire assembly should have walked out to protest America's unjust invasion of Iraq.

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Ahmadinnajacket once proclaimed proudly that Iran had no homosexuals at all. I couldn't help thinking at the time, "Gee, he must be lonely then." This idiot's sole role is to stir up trouble over any issues in the media for the sake of keeping it in the media. His comments are geared towards confusing the issues and insult everyones intelligence. I'd refer to him as the UN's Court Jester except he isn't witty or funny....just irritating and sad.

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Wow Sushi, that says more then you can imagine about where you really stand.

Why were they even talking about 9/11 anyway? It's true, some DO say that the US was actually behind the attacks; that doesn't mean you bring it up at a UN meeting and then make some weird jump in logic that it was to guarantee Israel's survival. What an idiot.

Agree completely.

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Every village has its idiot! The Iranian people deserve much better!

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“Very recently the world witnessed the ugly and inhumane act of burning the holy Quran,” Ahmadinejad said.

It wasn't burned, if he means the Rev Jones event.

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Sushi,

Yes, the U.S. government has some serious flaws in its approach to some foreign policy issues, but what with this “the enemy of my enemy . . . ” nonsense? I expected better from you, honestly.

"Some of the other comments the Iranian president made were bang on target, especially '...some equated nuclear energy with nuclear bombs.'

“Bang on target”? If so, then it should stand to reason that "some" would also liberally apply sanctions and political pressure against the other 30 countries in the world that use nuclear energy, despite 22 of which possess no nuclear weapons programs whatsoever.

Or perhaps it could really be so simple as some nations feeling a bit apprehensive about allowing nuclear technology that can be converted into a weapons program to flourish in a nation that regularly expresses no qualms about wiping Israel from the face of the map. I’m no fan of Israel, but I don’t want to see it reduced to irradiated cinders either. Nor do I want to see the Mid-East Peace Process dictated via nuclear blackmail from Iran, which would most certainly happen.

If you truly believe that Iran would never weaponize a peaceful nuclear power program, then there’s nothing I ca say to convince you otherwise. But I respectfully disagree with that assessment, and I’m certainly not alone.

“ . . . 9-11 becoming a sacred issue."

You’re being disingenuous by pulling that out context. The full quote is this:

“ . . . and stop it from turning into another [emphasis added] sacred issue where “expressing opinion about it won’t be banned”.

You and most everyone else here knows perfectly well that Ahmadinejad is speaking in reference to the international drubbing he took and continues to take for his, how shall we put it? unconventional views regarding the mass murder of Jews during WWII. He states the Holocaust never happened, an asinine claim not too far removed from the idiocy of believing 9/11 was staged by the U.S.

“The entire assembly should have walked out to protest America's unjust invasion of Iraq . . . “

And this has precisely what to do with Iran?

Again, this “If it’s against America then it must be good” stuff makes you look petulant and silly.

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I really don't know what is more pathetic; 9-11 conspiracy theorists continuing to bleat on despite the fact that every asinine conspiracy theory has been de-bunked time and again, or that they now ally themselves with the loon Ahmadinejad.

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As an American it is just as easy, and far more valid, to point out that Iran's leaders use 9-11 to distract the civilized world from pointing out the grievous violations of basic human rights they are guilty of, and against their own citizens. Creeps me out to see people here telling those of us in the free world that a theocratic regime that stones women, hangs gays and shoots protesters dead is "bang on target" in their criticism of nations that are light years ahead of them.

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Well said, LFR!

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SushiSake: Some of the other comments the Iranian president made were bang on target

Instead of thinking of him as a terrorist-supporting leader of a nuclear weapon seeking theocracy, just think of him as a Republican. My guess is that the "bang on" comments will suddenly dry up.

But, I digress. Perhaps I shouldn't make any comments. I'd hate for you to pull my citizenship for "Un-American activities." We all know you love America more than anyone else and you're constantly searching message boards to call out those who wish to do her harm.

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"It's true, some DO say that the US was actually behind the attacks; that doesn't mean you bring it up at a UN meeting and then make some weird jump in logic that it was to guarantee Israel's survival. What an idiot."

He said a majority of people believe it. It is not true. He meant it to be inflammatory. He wanted to spout a big lie from the podium.

Leaders should not say it because some people actually listen to them.

"use 9-11 to distract the civilized world"

Well, to be fair, 9-11 gets used that way a lot.

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Both sides use 9-11 to further their causes.

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TimRussert, Molenir, LFRAgain and the America Is Always Right crowd - you aren't doing yourselves any favors by stooping to new lows. You appear offended when the Iranian president brings up 9-11, you wail on about Iran's practices that you disagree with....and then you bash me when I bring up America's unjust invasion of Iraq, an invasion that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people, displaced 4.25 Iraqis and strengthend and emboldened Iran? Sorry, to see your blase attitude to such an horrific error of judgement and its subsequent consequences only highlights your prejudicial bias and extreme naievity of the issues. Not only that - thanks to LFRAgain, again, we're seeing the same tired argument that Iran has, could or is building nuclear weapons. That has been rubbished by the IAEA (sp?). Where is the evidence Iran is developing a nuclear weapons program? Either put up evidence or quit making unfounded claims based on fear-mongering, 'evidence' and rumors. Again, you aren't doing yourselves any favors by making unsubstantiated claims.

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Superlib, slow day? :-)

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Not surprisingly, we're seeing many of the same people who brought into the jacked up claims about Saddam's WMD buying into the as yet unfounded claims that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. Most rational people would acknowledge they had made a critical error of judgement in the first case, but to so easily run off and start believing as yet unfounded 'evidence' (of Iran's nuclear weapons program) underlines a serious lack of judgement and critical thinking abilities on the part of those claiming Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

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If something is true it is not a conspiracy. If people want to trust the US government about 9/11 then so be it but it doesn`t mean that it is truthful. Millions of people want the 9/11 reports investigated again because there are unanswered questions. Not investigated by a government group either. The increased policing and military (what is the military doing conducting operations in communities anyway?)build up in cities/towns etc. is very scary. We often hear how 9/11 has created more security for the American people but really it has just created more authorized control over American citizens. Ahmadinejad has some whacky ideas but he has some valid points.

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Why do people have to keep leaving the room all the time? You hear things you do not like and you deal with it. If I left the room each time my boss or clients said something I did not like, I'd get fired. It's childish games. From both Iran and USA. They insult each other in front of the public. They need to talk to each other and not passed each other.

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As usual, I don't agree with anyone. My apathy continues.

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Anti-Semitic slurs? You can accuse Ahmadinejad for many things but the truth of the matter is that Iran is home to more Jews than any other country in that region and they enjoy the same rights as the majority of other Iranians. If Ahmadinejad hated Jews, all he could do is round up all the Jews in his home country. Ahmadinejad has been consistent in criticizing the state of Israel and Zionism and not Judaism. But at the end of the day Ahmadinejad is still a moron. That's my conclusion of him.

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Sometimes it would be appropriate for someone to do what a senator did to President Obama: "You lie, you lie, you lie." is the best chant as people leave the assembly. If Krushchev can hammer his shoe on a his desk and interrupt proceedings., then a raised fist and a chant so loud that it stops the speaker, then the world will know the speaker is wrong. Sometimes a civilized reaction only encourage the speaker.

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He said the U.S. used the attacks as a pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq that led to the killing of hundreds of thousands of people, saying the U.S. should have “designed a logical plan” to punish the perpetrators while not shedding so much blood.

Very true, Mr. President.

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every asinine conspiracy theory has been de-bunked time and again

Oh really? Because the last time I saw someone 'debunk' 9/11, he was one of only 20 servicemen in the forces, qualified to use a certain explosive and he seemed pretty adamant that someone on the inside had done it. Or perhaps all those firemen and civilians who witnessed explosions in the basements and on various floors of the twin towers were just delusional? Their experience in their jobs mean nothing after all, right? And absolutely ZERO plane wreckage found at the Pentagon or Pennsylvania? C'mon...wake up boy!!

Ahmadinejad is still a doofus though!

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I agree, the Iranian president has said some stupid things, but to see a nuclear power (U.S.) say another country should not become a nuclear power, to see people from said nuclear power cry like they mean it about Iran's treatment of gays, women, etc. while saying nothing whatsoever in condemnation of their own country's invasion of not 1 but 2 countries says pretty much everything we'd rather not know about the detractors in question. Seriously, it's even more disturbing that said detractors can't see or understand this for themselves and actually lash out when their own stunning hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

And btw, because I'm pointing out this yawning logic flaw, I must be an 'America hater,' lol :-)

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we're seeing many of the same people who brought into the jacked up claims about Saddam's WMD buying into the as yet unfounded claims that Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

I've read each of the above posts, and I don't think any of them indicate that someone has bought into the idea that Iran has a nuclear weapons program. I think that some of them strongly suspect Iran has a program, but as you mention, there currently is no solid evidence made available to the public of the existence of such.

However, the problem is the IAEA and permanent members of the Security Council and their allies do not trust Iran or Ahmadinejad and cannot confirm that the nuclear program, which as with most large scale nuclear programs can be weaponized fairly easily, is peaceful. Iran is exacerbating the problem by failing to cooperate with the IAEA.

Iran gives the distinct impression it is hiding something about its nuclear program. No one trusts the regime given its history or the behavior and words of its representatives. It's no surprise, really.

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Behavior on both sides is simply unacceptable. Ahmadinajad's comments are infuriating, of course, but the US representatives' reaction is just as immature. They're there to find solutions and agreements. Can't do that from outside!

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Ahmadinejad called for establishment of an independent fact-finding U.N. body to probe the attacks and stop it from turning into another sacred issue where “expressing opinion about it won’t be banned”.

It seems that the US did exactly what the Iranian president was saying should be avoided - an issue that (like the holocaust) can not be discussed. Expressing opinion has effectively been banned, at least in front of US deligates.

It was almost as if the US deligates were paid by the Iranian prez. "Get up and leave half way through my speech, to prove that you are unable to discuss this issue, and when you get outside compare us to anti-Semites."

Trouble is there are people that speak about it. "He did not explain the logic of that statement" He might have mentioned

http://buildingwhat.org/

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I was hoping Ahmadinejad would expose the faked moon landings, as well. I and wonts believe the world is round unless I sees it with my own eyes!

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Ah, the "man of peace" speaks again. Of course, Obama still thinks that he is open for friendly negotiations.

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You DontKnow- so part of the fake 9-11 they created a fake hole in the ground in Pennsylvania? And, the airplane and people on it are in an underground cave someplace?

Wow!

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Wow... I never thought I would see the day that I would actually agree with Ahmadinejad. A great friend of mine is an Iranian abroad [ andone of the green revolution movement] so I appreciate just how *less-than-ideal the political regime he heads is. As for the whole Zionist accusation - Well it's an extraordinary claim that would carry a commensurate burden of extraordinary proof. However as far as 9/11 being an inside job - Well Yes.. a growing number of us a learning how 9/11 was an inside job and noting the growing body of evidence with respect to same. Probably a UN/International body (like a war-crimes commission) being established to find out who is culpable is actually a great idea.

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I still don't understand why this guy was allowed to board a plane bound for the United States.

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I agree, the Iranian president has said some stupid things,

But most SushiSake agrees with.

And btw, because I'm pointing out this yawning logic flaw, I must be an 'America hater,' lol :-)

Actually, it's because of all your posts to date, not just this one. :-)

but the US representatives' reaction is just as immature. They're there to find solutions and agreements. Can't do that from outside!

They tried to find solutions before, but the UN is not the forum for successful anything.

Wow... I never thought I would see the day that I would actually agree with Ahmadinejad... as far as 9/11 being an inside job - Well Yes.. a growing number of us a learning how 9/11 was an inside job and noting the growing body of evidence with respect to same.

Another "truther" detached from reality.

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Wow... I never thought I would see the day that I would actually agree with Ahmadinejad... as far as 9/11 being an inside job - Well Yes.. a growing number of us a learning how 9/11 was an inside job and noting the growing body of evidence with respect to same.

Another "truther" detached from reality.

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You DontKnow- so part of the fake 9-11 they created a fake hole in the ground in Pennsylvania? And, the airplane and people on it are in an underground cave someplace?

No, the people from the airplanes are in Vegas - "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"... it's the ultimate coverup destination!!

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U.S deletegation is really childish. why can't they show respect to Mr.Ahmadinejad ?

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We may not like what he represents or what he says but Ahmadinejad is no fool.

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displaced 4.25 Iraqis

That's all? I'd call that a success!

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we're seeing many of the same people who brought into the jacked up claims about Saddam's WMD buying into the as yet unfounded claims that Iran has a nuclear weapons program.

What are their names?

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It seems that the US did exactly what the Iranian president was saying should be avoided - an issue that (like the holocaust) can not be discussed. Expressing opinion has effectively been banned, at least in front of US deligates.

That is just stupid. What is banned? Say anything you want, but people also have the freedom not to listen to you.

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at least Ahmadinejad isn't afraid of popular beliefs or the mechanics of conspiracy theories... wish more people would come out and say what they feel instead of hiding behind the consensus...journalist included.

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“The nuclear bomb is the worst inhumane weapon which must totally be eliminated.

Which begs the questions:

What does he consider the BEST inhumane weapon? What is the worst & best inhumane weapona that must NOT be totally eliminated? What inhumane weapons does he consider should be only partially eliminated?
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TimRussert: "As an American it is just as easy, and far more valid, to point out that Iran's leaders use 9-11 to distract the civilized world from pointing out the grievous violations of basic human rights they are guilty of, and against their own citizens."

Wow...can't believe I'm actually agreeing with you. Of course, Iran isn't the only nation to bring up the infringements of other nations in order to take the spotlight of its own violations, but as this is about the foolish comments by Ahmadinejad...

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wish more people would come out and say what they feel instead of hiding behind the consensus...journalist included.

journalists should report the facts. Leave their "feelings" out of it.

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*

Say anything you want, but people also have the freedom not to listen to you.*

....and also with you.....

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...and also with you.....

Exactly!! now you're catching on to this freedom thing.

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>now you're catching on to this freedom thing.

been free for along time man, I think you need to free your mind of what you've read and have been told.

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I think you need to free your mind of what you've read and have been told.

Sounds like you've been watching Loose Change too many times. I however have contact with the outside world. :-)

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Listening to conspiracy theorists is quite funny. "Millions want to know what happened" is a popular rallying cry although the number is more like in the hundreds (the same numbers who dispute the Apollo missions). "I know a guy in the army who..." Ok. name please? then nothing... Actually, I feel a little sad for them, too. It must suck going through life unable to deal with trauma.

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*

I however have contact with the outside world*

where? in japan? hahah! thats an oxymoron....the only outside world your getting is outside. Come join the real world where people actually do have guns.

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hi twinring! Actually, I am from america (guess you missed that). :-)

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Would the People of the US support the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan without 9/11?

The US Gov has a very long history of staging events -that is all the Iranian President is saying.

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Heh, I see the "truthers" are overjoyed to have Ahmadinejad in their corner. Good. They can keep him.

RR

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'Ahmadinejad has called for the destruction of Israel'

president Ahmadinejad has not called for the destruction of israel..he has said quoting Khomenei that the zionist entity must vanish from the pages of time. The same zionist entity has obliterated palestine and has pushde its people out into refugee camps in the surrounding region.

This is really shoddy journalism JP.

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"You appear offended when the Iranian president brings up 9-11, you wail on about Iran's practices that you disagree with....and then you bash me when I bring up America's unjust invasion of Iraq"

Ah, I see. That's your link to Conservatives. I was wondering where you were going with your "spot on" support of Ahmadinejad. I don't really remember you supporting him in the past or talking about evidence of a nuclear weapons program before. Looks like you threw out a pretty silly comment of support and then had the Iraq comments waiting for when people responded. Seems like a lot of effort to pick a fight with Conservatives.

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SuperLib, I've been asking for evidence for, um, at least 3 years.

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Next time, make THIS point #1: "that the attack was the work of “a terrorist group but the American government supported and took advantage of the situation.” as I believe it is the most correct. It seems useless to go into the entire landscape of American aggression that presaged these events as people who mention this laudable fact are fired/crucified/etc. So, I go with the above point, to start. People, America is the biggest aggressor on the planet. What are you going to do about it??? Seriously.

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That is just stupid. What is banned? Say anything you want, but people also have the freedom not to listen to you.

If the representatives of the American people refuse to even listen to the opinions of the other side they have effectively banned discourse, at least at this level.

The delegates are those of the American people. It is their job to represent the American people in dialogue at the UN. By choosing to leave the UN at this time, a political decision was made remove the American people from the debate on the cause of 9/11.

Fortunately they are still free to debate it on the Internet.

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The UN is worthless. When medieval regimes like Iran and Syria sit in judgment of free democracies there is little point in sending delegates, much less having them sit through the rantings of a lunatic like Amadmanjihad.

Fortunately they are still free to debate it on the Internet.

Fortunate for all the US created and still controls the net, rather than the weasels at the UN.

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The delegates are those of the American people. It is their job to represent the American people in dialogue at the UN. By choosing to leave the UN at this time, a political decision was made remove the American people from the debate on the cause of 9/11.

the US delegates dont represent the american people The american people in 2006 voted democracts into congres and senate as a majority to end the iraq war,...the Dems then chose to ignore those who voted for them and obey those who fund them.

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Ahmadinejad is a loony and having fun of everyone...

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And even today, Iran lacks the power for a direct confrontation, it uses proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. This is fairly obvious to those w/o an ideological axe to grind.

Labeling Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist groups as the US does just shows the lack of tolerance and understanding of democratic values which they like to preach to others. The irony is that the "defenders of freedom" do not tolerate political parties AND at the same time talk about spreading freedom and democracy.

USA should stop talking about democracy. They are embarrassing themselves. It is US who look stupid when they talk about it. If they really did support democracies they would. And if they really did not support totalitarian states they would not either such as Saudi, Kuwait and other totalitarian states in ME, and all the countless fascist dictators in Latin America. Iran is much more democratic than many of the countries US support.

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US is not even a democracy..which means Rule by the people..the 2006 midterm elections shows us US democrats ignoring the voters demands they pull the US out of iraq...the democrats ignored those who got them in the majority in Congress and senate....for thos who fund them

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US is not even a democracy..which means Rule by the people..

Congratulations. You are correct. Democracy does mean mob rule. We are a constitutional republic. The word democracy does not appear in the US Constitution.

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from the article: "Ahmadinejad has called for the destruction of Israel and is deeply at odds with the United States and European allies over its nuclear program and suspicions that it is designed to produce an atomic bomb."

Nuff said. I know which side I am on. Iran needs regime change. I hope the Iranian people, who are largely quite pro-American (though Obama has greatly diminished common Iranians' trust in us), can effect it on their own. Iran/Persia has no historical basis for the weird role Amadmanjihad and the mullahs have taken up, except that like Nasser and Saddam Hussein and then bin Laden the strong man in the region, the guy who wants to gun for Caliph, needs to whip up Jew hatred and hatred of America, symbol of the modernity that the Mohammedan world is at war with...

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JT being very American centred failed to mention that almost all the European counties also walked out, not just the US. Israel wasn’t there because today is a religious holiday and they wouldn’t have been there anyway.

One thing you have to keep in mind about Ahmadinejad is that he is quite mad, but he is not stupid, adding a few half truths and commonly held doubts into his nonsense creates all this comment, but it doesn’t alter the fact that the man is dangerous and never be have been given power. And that is not an attack on the people of Iran who, far more than anybody else, have to suffer this man leading their country.

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SushiSake: I've been asking for evidence for, um, at least 3 years.

Which evidence would you like? Statements from the IAEA saying Iran has not complied with the requirements? Statements from the head of the IAEA saying he personally thinks Iran is putting itself in the position to create nuclear weapons? The evidence that shows plans to create weaponized nuclear devices?

If you're willing to look at the evidence there is plenty out there. From there you can draw your own conclusions. Or you could just refuse to look at the evidence and just respond with "Iraq." That way you can feel like you're actually participating in a discussion without, as you said, knowing anything about the evidence at all.

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Congratulations. You are correct. Democracy does mean mob rule. We are a constitutional republic. The word democracy does not appear in the US Constitution.

thanks master creosote, for confirming that US is not a democracy, so how can the US BRING democracy to the rest of the world?

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so how can the US BRING democracy to the rest of the world?

You are on the internet , largely a US creation, and you are asking that question.

I can't help you...

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One thing you have to keep in mind about Ahmadinejad is that he is quite mad, but he is not stupid

mendoza...calling someone mad doesnt make them mad...

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You are on the internet, largely a US creation,

Prof. Tim Berners-Lee would probably disagree with you on that point.

I would love to know why, with so many glaring discrepancies in the official story, such a blatantly obvious cui bono, and the flagrant manipulation of the attacks to fulfil the aims of PNAC why anyone who disagrees with the story of the biggest bunch of crooks and liars ever to defile the Whitehouse is instantly branded a "Conspiracy nut".

Vile as he is, Ahmadinejad has a point.

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Ivan:"the biggest bunch of crooks and liars ever to defile the WhiteHouse"

Amazing how the Obama administration hasn't challenged the "official story."

"Ahmadinejad had a point"

Which is...?

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Yes, we did perpetrate the 9/11 attacks. The holocaust was a fabrication done by Steven Spielberg in Hollywood. Bigfoot does indeed exist, and despite the question of how only badly faked grainy film and plaster casts of footprints exist of an eight foot creature that would surely have seen by someone without a defective camera, they live in large numbers in Utah. Space aliens who joined the Taliban were responsible for actually carrying out the 9/11 attacks in conjunction with GB, who is actually using the brain of Walt Disney that was preserved after his 'death'.

The point being that the degree and depth of human lunacy knows no bounds. Quite obviously some of you and Mr. Ahmadinejad seem to have delved into the world that keeps the National Enquirer and Weekly World News going.

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You see? My point exactly.

You can't melt steel with jet fuel. Large pools of molten steel were under the Towers ten days after the attacks. Fact.

Ask about that fact and people start raving about "lunacy", equating scientific facts with Bigfoot. Many thanks, Tigermoth, for illustrating my point so clearly.

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Ahmadinejad needs a more friendly environment to deliver his speeches when in New York. Thankfully there is 13 story Islamic cultural center just right by ground zero thats soon to built that well welcome a good Islamist like himself so he won't have to worry about folks walking out on him.

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Ask about that fact and people start raving about "lunacy", equating scientific facts with Bigfoot. Many thanks, Tigermoth, for illustrating my point so clearly.

And just how do you know these 'facts'? Too often in these cases, myth becomes fact. Someone who claims they were there, or that they were a 'metallurgist' working at the site, or 'saw a report' - whatever - turn out to be nothing of the sort. People have sworn for years that information is true that in fact turned out not to be. It's in human nature - and particularly in American nature - to assume conspiracy in everything or to not believe what seems incredible. Often times truth isn't stranger than fiction. Just because you tend to believe the conspiracy theorists does not make it then the truth.

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should have said 'truth is stranger than fiction'.

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Imagine Ahmadinejad walking out each time he heard something he did not like to hear? My point is. You can not walk out like how USA and EU did. It serves no purpose. If I walked out each time I caught a politician lying or saying something I did not like, I would be in very good shape from all the exercise I would be getting. Why EU walked out is even stranger. 9/11 happened in USA and not in Europe. Besides many people in US and Europe also question 9/11. This issue was even brought up in the Diet here in Japan. Ahmadinejad was only saying what a lot of people in US and EU was saying.

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Too bad Ahmadinejad doesn't walk out every time he hears something he doesn't like; we wouldn't have to put up with his ravings. This guy has a case of foot in mouth that makes Bush's gaffes tame by comparison. I'm glad Obama told him where he could stuff the drivel, in so many words. More diplomatically than I would be.

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It somewhat surprises me - although it really shouldn't - that so many on here seem willing to at least in form agree with what he said. This is a man who keeps a firm boot on the throats of his own people, and as an avid anti-Semite has stated that he would quite happily liquidate Israel. Sort of reminds me of a jackbooted little corporal with a funny mustache.

It also surprises me that the conspiracy theorists re 9/11 are so widespread - although that shouldn't surprise either as it gives US haters in other nations someone to blame other than radical Islam (be it the twisted followers thereof) and the rabid Bush haters further cause in their minds to frame him the anti-Christ.

Perhaps we should just put out trust in Nostradamus. Sorry if I put a bit more faith in truth and fact rather than theory and hocus pocus. But a do know a scumbag when I see one, and one leads Iran.

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tigermoth

Just because you tend to believe the conspiracy theorists does not make it then the truth.

Quite so. And just because you believe FIMA/NIST does not make them true either, but who here is saying that saying that your opininions are like bigfoot or Nostradamus, or hocus pocus?

By saying that the other side of an argument is hocus pocus, then you are in a sense already on your way out of the room. You are shutting dialogue down.

And the end of dialogue is a sad thing, it seems to me, as the "scumbag" pointed out.

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I think Obama summed it up best:

“It was offensive. It was hateful. And particularly for him to make the statement here in Manhattan, just a little north of ground zero, where families lost their loved ones, people of all faiths, all ethnicities who see this as the seminal tragedy of this generation, for him to make a statement like that was inexcusable."

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Imagine Ahmadinejad walking out each time he heard something he did not like to hear?

It strikes me as better than the hit Iran put out on Salman Rushdie because they heard something they did not like to hear.

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the most outrageous conspiracy theory of all is the one that has 19 arabs with box cutters taking down 3 buildings! president Ahmadinejad is right...

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"You can't melt steel with jet fuel."

Yeah you can, just put some in a jet and crash it into a building supported with steel pillars.

"the most outrageous conspiracy theory of all is the one that has 19 arabs with box cutters taking down 3 buildings! president Ahmadinejad is right"

Oh my...

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“Rather than representing the aspirations and goodwill of the Iranian people,” he said, “Mr Ahmadinejad has yet again chosen to spout vile conspiracy theories and anti-Semitic slurs that are as abhorrent and delusional as they are predictable.”

Is he stating that out of delusional naive?. or of confidence out of some support he has in his sleeve. And what 'kind' of support is that, I wonder...

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*and I'm referring to Ahmadinejad

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Yeah you can, just put some in a jet and crash it into a building supported with steel pillars.

no you cant, as most of the fuel burns off in fireballs, and most of the towers were not on fire, the steel was untouched

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"You can't melt steel with jet fuel." Yeah you can, just put some in a jet and crash it into a building supported with steel pillars.

I suppose you're right, Sarge. That's why the Empire State Building collapsed after that B-25 flew into it. Oh, wait - it didn't, did it? In fact, not a single steel-framed building has ever collapsed due to fire before or after 9/11. That's your scientific, and your historical, facts for you.

So who's going to refute them by bringing Elvis into the equation?

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Can anyone take Ahmadinejad seriously? I dont think his opinions are worthy of any kind of serious thought. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3RUwAJ_MI

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That's why the Empire State Building collapsed after that B-25 flew into it. Oh, wait - it didn't, did it? In fact, not a single steel-framed building has ever collapsed due to fire before or after 9/11.

I don't think anyone can take this guy seriously.

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But on the other hand, conspiracy theories, are only 'theories' so long as they are demonstrably not 'fact'. There must be quite a few that are accepted as 'fact' sooner or later, sometimes decades or centuries later, so it is a good thing that there are people who are prepared to pursue all possibilities, no matter how outlandish or ridiculous they appear to be. And it is essential to protect 'free expression' too, for or against every idea, (and including all religious ideas) Or it would be much too easy to present any pack of lies as truth, & get away with it.

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manfromamerica:

Go on - why?

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no you cant, as most of the fuel burns off in fireballs, and most of the towers were not on fire, the steel was untouched

Ahmadinejad is a certified mental idiot. The man is totally uneducated. To throw out outlandish comments, vile, hurtful and repugnant! If anyone wants to know and understand the mechanics as to how the buildings collapsed all they have to do is see the facts broken down. Perdue University the science and engineering dept. spent years debunking all the myths about how the buildings came down and if you read it and if you are logical, rational clear thinking person, it doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to show that the buildings were brought down by the intense heat, which crippled and weakened the structure of the towers-No conspiracy, just proven facts. Some people want to believe otherwise, some people also believe Elvis is Not dead either.

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bass4funk, you must understand that your own arguments, as much as his, - are damaged by inaccuracy. He is no genius but he has a doctorate in civil engineering and traffic transportation planning. That's 'education', and he has not been 'certified'. I suppose he appears to be a useful performer on behalf of the heavy religious power group, and must say whatever it approves, or.....

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Thanks, bass4funk. My case rests.

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After re-reading Ivan's posts, I have come to the conclusion that the collapse of the WTC towers was not caused by jetliners crashing into them causing a magnitude of destruction never before experienced in U.S. cities, but was caused by a diabolical plan by the Bush administration to start wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, lol.

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Ivancoughalot- seriously, for a guy who usually posts someone coherent thoughts, your B25 theory boggles the mind. Do you honestly think a 1945-era plane half the size and weight of a modern jet liner, going approx 1/3 the speed would make a dent in a building that size?? Im not even an engineer, but common sense is a wonderful thing.. Next..

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make that 6 TIMES the weight of a modern 767

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hoserfella - You mean one-sixth the weight of a modern 767.

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Sarge, indeed. thanks.

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Does Pres Allmadjihad have theories about the 7/7 London bombings, the Mumbai massacre, the Bali nite club massacres, the Beslan school massacre, the Moscow theater massacre - - or does he just count on wing nut Lefties to advance them on his behalf?

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The Iranian President is a major A-hole.

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MisterCreosote:

" Does Pres Allmadjihad have theories about the 7/7 London bombings, the Mumbai massacre, the Bali nite club massacres, the Beslan school massacre, the Moscow theater massacre - - or does he just count on wing nut Lefties to advance them on his behalf? "

You can be sure that if asked on this issue, you get the same story... islam has nothing to do with it, and the terrorists are probably somehow sponsored by the US or Israel. It is the standard refrain. What is bizarre is that there are Westerners who believe this.

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Sarge, hoser- when was WTC7 hit by a plane? A 47-storey steel-framed building collapses into its own footprint after a fire of a few hours on a couple of floors - again, something which has never happened before or since that day - and nobody is allowed to ask questions?

Asking why is equated with "spouting vile conspiracy theories" in the minds of those who do not wish the glaring anomalies to be discussed. Still, that's what this decade-long war's been about, eh? Freedom. The freedom to believe what we tell you to believe or else.

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IvanCoughalot - You are free to believe the following; 1. WTC7 collapsed due to the enormous damage and stress inflicted on it by the collapse of the twin towers directly beside it, or 2. George W. Bush and Dick Cheney were around the corner with a plunger and dynamite. If you want to believe number 2, there is nothing more to say. My guess is no matter how many times these silly little myths are de-bunked, you will refuse to accept reality.

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By the way, Ivan. No more comments about the B25 theory? At least you had the sense to walk away from that one..

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Hoser - when was the "silly little myth" debunked? Refusing to discuss somethng is not the same thing as debunking it.

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Ivan - go back on the thread a little. I believe I discussed your silly little B25 myth, de-bunked it, and asked for more. So where again did I "refuse to discuss something"??

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Ivan - I tell ya what. I kinda feel bad about the stress you must feel believing there is a worldwide mass conspiracy involving thousands of people who are very good at keeping such an incredible secret. Here is my gift to you; the popular mechanics website. Oh don't worry, I don't believe it's run by the Bush family or Halliberton.

it offers a step-by step study of all conspiracy myths, which are clearly and easily de-bunked. It shows how the gullible will spin a small kernal of fact into a myth to be spoon-fed to the ignorant. I hope you read it and sleep easier tonite with a great weight lifted off your back..

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Hoser -ah, PopularMechanics.

Is this the same organisation which, in September and October 2004, gave five of its long-serving (21 years in one case) senior editorial staff 90 minutes to clear their desks, and installed Benjamin Chertoff, (the 25 year-old cousin of the head of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff) as Senior Researcher?

Hmmm, 'twould appear so.

Hoser, if you regard your post above as a forensic debunking, it's no wonder you're so happy with the story you've been fed.

The B25 incident was directly included in the construction plans of the WTC, to ensure that the building was designed with sufficient superfluity of structure to withstand the impact of large aircraft. True, a B25 is much smaller than a 767, but the structure of the WTC was much bigger than the Empire State Building.

Seriously - is that all you've got? There are questions. BIG questions. Andsaying "Lalalala I can't hear you because we got Justice on our side" isn't a valid debating technique.

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And it's all gone quiet over there.

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either quiet, or I actually get out on the weekends. Yes Ivan, I see the light now. Its all a big conspiracy. I think Ill crawl under my covers and await the next big murdurous plot by the CIA. Godspeed in your quest to uncover the truth..

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Oh Ivan. I did a quick google of your buddy Benjamin Chertoff. To quote Wiki;

Supporters of the conspiracy theories have claimed that 9/11: Debunking The Myths is "a propaganda piece" written by "a senior government official's cousin" because Chertoff has the same last name as Department of Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff. However, Chertoff has repeatedly denied this claim, most notably in the September 11, 2006 issue of U.S. News & World Report, stating "no one in my family has ever met anyone related to Michael Chertoff".[4] In an audio interview, he noted that any possible relationship would likely only be found in "19th-century Belarus", and that his mother has described any such possible relationship as "distant".[5

So now your thories go back to 19th Belarussian name similarities? Oh dear...

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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And it's all gone quiet over there...

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Seriously - is that all you've got? There are questions. BIG questions. Andsaying "Lalalala I can't hear you because we got Justice on our side" isn't a valid debating technique

actually Ivan, I prefer to say we have Sanity on our side...

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Chertoff has repeatedly denied this claim

To quote Mandy Rice-Davies, "Well, he would, wouldn't he?"

I prefer to say we have Sanity on our side...

Ah, I see - believe what the Government tell you to believe or you're lacking Sanity? You'd have done well in the Inquisition, chum.

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Mod - why, when I try to post a link to a website address, do I get the message "Your comment was not posted because it contains potentially offensive content"?

Moderator: As a temporary measure to block spammers, we are blocking http://www in comments.

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Thanks mod.

Hoser - take a look at ae911truth.org for another side to your in-house PM excuse.

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No thanks, Ivan. Ive had my morning laugh already, and the 30 seconds that it takes to de-bunk this rot is more time than it deserves.

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So there you go - I read your evidence and found it wanting. You return to the "lalala I can't hear you" stratagem when presented with evidence from experts which disagrees with what you were issued with.

Another towering contribution.

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Ivan - by "towering contribution" do you mean a Hail Mary connection between 2 men who have the same name, yet clearly no other relation? Or your infamous B25 theory? Both of which blew up in your face? Im also still waiting to hear some names and credentials of your so-called "experts"... again, I won't hold my breath.

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Right, let's see if we don't get excised from the record today.

The link I detailed above contains documents and testimony from professional, qualified and experienced architects and engineers, one, for instance with over 20 years of experience designing and building steel-framed buildings. They find your official excuse drastically wanting.

If you refuse to look at their evidence, then you can't sulk about not having seen any.

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More of the tired ol' same, Ivan. For every website created by live-at-home 9/11 conspiracy theorists, I can find one right next to it which quickly and easily de-bunks it. Sad, sad, sad....

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Then do so, dear boy. And while you're about it, please explain your diagnosis of Richard Gage, AIA (20+ years in practice) as a live-athome conspiracy theorist?

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yes, old boy, just googled him and predictably found more references to him as a quack than anything else. Again, fudging facts for the dim-witted and paranoid to hold on to. Meanwhile, I still see no evidence of a new world order...

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Quack - yet has been building steel-frame towers since your lad Chertoff was in short pants.

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