Trump proposes biggest tax overhaul in three decades

Tax cuts for the wealthy and the big money corporations.

Yup; it pays to be rich. Sorry Puerto Rico, but you've got debts. I mean, Dotard was bailed out several times for bankruptcy but he's rich.

Rich people deserve to keep themselves and their pals wealthy.

I mean, rich people are useful, aren't they?

Trump has said the tax overhaul would provide tax relief to middle-class Americans

Ha ha! - Not. If you want to see how America would fare if the GOP proposals were adopted, look at Kansas under Gov. Brownback. (That worked out so badly he was appointed ambassador to the Vatican to get him out of sight.)

Fortunately, we'll probably never know as it'll slip under the waves in the same fashion - a mixture of hubris and incompetence so astounding it alienated even its own party - as their "healthcare" bills (yes, they screwed up multiple times) did.

Let's see the details.

Ok, so let’s screw small businesses as well, I mean, who cares about the middle class, let them shrink further into oblivion.

Dotard Trump is an old hand at screwing small businesses.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/trump-small-business-owners/index.html

Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

More of the same from the trickle down team. Maintaining the major loophole that allows companies to exempt profits earned overseas stinks. The effective tax rate on corporations is only 20% anyway so why cut that. This tax plan will be an economic disaster and overly optimistic growth projections are just putting lipstick on a pig.

It needs to include a whole section about saving taxpayers' money by requiring Steve Mnuchin and other cabinet secretaries to repay their private jet expenses for frivolous trips to Kentucky to watch the eclipse etc.

Let's see the details.

Problem is, SuperLib, that there are no details. Compare Obamacare to the multiple attempts the GOP made to pass a "healthcare" plan - Obama presented a clear list of objectives and worked closely with congress to achieve them, whereas the GOP simply flung mud at a wall to see if anything stuck. (It didn't.) They had no overarching goal other than the empty slogan "repeal and replace."

When Treasury Secretary Mnuchin was asked recently about candidate Trump's pledge (one he's continued to repeat as president) that there will be no absolute tax cut for the upper class,” he replied, “It was never a promise. It was never a pledge. It was what the president’s objective was.” In other words, they are considering absolute tax cuts for the rich. But then, there are also the deficit hawks and GOP centrists who don't want to see the budget balanced on the backs of the middle class.

So, no, they have no better plan for tax "reform" than they did for healthcare.

Two things are amusing. One: wasting the 2017 reconciliation opportunity is as lame as bungling use of a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card when playing Monopoly, but there's a big chance that they'll do it again. Two: they still insist on lying as blatantly as a toddler with a chocolate-smeared face who swears to his mother that he didn't eat the chocolate and pretend that people are buying it. Some of the less mentally agile might (including some on this board), but most have caught on to the GOP's absolute mendacity by now.

Looks like they want to take the estate tax away. I'm not necessarily against reducing this tax, but since it only impacts a handful of tax returns, like less than 5,000 in the US in any given year, I never really understood why it was such a priority for the GOP unless they had something in it for themselves. The sold a bogus story about farmers to get their base to agree to a tax cut that ultimately gets shifted to the same base.

The pass throughs can be pretty easily used by the wealthy to lower their rates to 25%. That's what they did in Kansas and that helped to nearly bankrupt the state.

They are talking about a 10% one-time tax rate on cash held by corporations overseas, which is strange since the 5% one they tried a number of years ago backfired spectacularly. Corps went up to congress and said they could spend so much more on purchasing and jobs if they got a special rate. Congress agreed, then the companies just decided not to do any of that since there was no requirement. The top companies who benefitted the most actually reduced jobs and investments, so be careful about their new round of promises.

There is a bit of satisfaction watching the "fiscally responsible" party increase the deficit/debt, just as they did with the military and the wall. Helps to show how little it really means to them.

Finally, if this plan follows previous GOP plans, the promise of higher revenues will never come, the budget will get hammered, and then they can start to strip social programs. It's happened so often that you'd have to be dense to think they really believe the growth is coming.

We know from Trump's partial 2005 return, that but for the Alternate Minimum Tax, he would have paid virtually nothing. Guess what? Trump is eliminating the AMT, and it is a fair assumption that doing so, will give him a huge tax break.

"This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity," Trump said.

It's very telling that the Republicans keep pretending tax reform can only happen now. In truth there is no reason it has to happen just this minute, what they actually mean is that they want it to happen at just this second while they control all the branches of government because they don't know how to negotiate a fair tax plan.

I welcome tax reform because the US system is a nightmare, but the problem is the devil is in the details, and neither Trump nor the current GOP are detail-oriented people. Because Trump is just too ignorant and the GOP have such a religiously fanatic devotion to the idea that low taxes are always better no matter what, when we say "tax reform" all they hear is "lower taxes". I'd bet money this will turn out exactly the way their "health care reform" went - a bunch of obviously inferior plans that not a single person spared a moment to actually think through, that they try to rush through Congress because they'd rather pass an incompetently-written bill than spend a little time thinking things through.

But it never got to a consistent 3%

And this is one quarter, not "consistant." But nice backpedal.

years of a heavy and sluggish economy.

Wrong again. Total market returns under Obama were 235%, bested only by Clinton (another Democrat). Under Bush? -30% return.

Even the hating NYT having to admit we are having a roaring time, stock market looks sweet.

Nowhere in the article does it say the economy is roaring etc. It does, however, state that this was the fastest quarterly growth in two years. Remind me, who was president two years ago?

Simplifying the tax code has to be a good thing.  Getting it thru the jungle of vested interests and lobbyists will be tough though.

The Democrats had 8 long torturous years to improve the stock market

This is the personal danger of living in a bubble watching tongue-flapppng morons on Fox News. It is an objective fact that the stock market improved under Obama after inheriting a car crash. How much of this rise you credit to Obama is worth discussing, but the fact it did rise is not up for debate.

A pity some rich people were too busy watching Sean Hannity. The financial pages of newspapers like the Washington Post may have been worth a glance.

A pity some missed the boat.

Look at the stock market. it's roaring. I'm happy and a lot of people are happy and feeling more confident. Kudos!

A pity you were under the impression the stock market didn't improve markedly under Obama.

How did you manage this incredible feat? Did you only start checking the stock market after Trump won? I'm genuinely interested.

I think the estate tax should be removed. The money has already been taxed once and if a mother or father wishes to pass on money to one of their kids they should not be taxed for doing so.

My problem with all of these so called tax plans (developed by anyone) is that they group in small business owners with the wealthy. We have made a good living, provide jobs, and most often are engaged in actual tangible constructive work (not investment banking, etc.) but they all want to group us in with the 1 percent. The super rich have always been able to pit the lower echelons (i.e. middle class, upper middle class, and lower class) against each other while protecting themselves. I see this as more of the same.

The U.S. has one of the most inhumane tax systems in the world (including being the only developed country to tax their citizens while residing overseas) and neither political party has proven to be even close to fiscally responsible.

I guess the bottom line is....Trump...show me the details....I am sure the devil is residing within....

And who will make up the lost revenue? Why, the average person, of course.

Will Trump release his tax returns, then?

blacklabel: Washington Post already trying to convince us that the middle class doesn't even want a tax break they want "better government". That's the second most hilarious thing I read today. with the first being that these "Russian" Facebook ads that warranted 2 articles here actually included ads supporting Hillary and BLM.

You have an online subscription to the Washington Post?

@Bass

So why did you post that the stock market didn't improve under Obama?

It's objectively false. Why would you post something like that?

@Bass

I'm just asking why you posted the stock market didn't improve under Obama.

Why did you post that? You've been watching the stock market since Reagan.

The US guys at the office want to know if the reforms do anything to decrease the burden on Americans living overseas. Anyone know?

@katsu - as an American living in Japan for a long time I beg to differ. There is a burden, which was compounded by the infamous Alternative Minimum Tax calculation

Another plan to help the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Tax plans that disproportionately help those that don't need it at the expense of those who do have only increased the deep divide since Ronald Reagan's "trickle down economics."

Low-income Trump supporters: this is what you voted for!

How about some government spending reform, you lying scumbag politicians?

It will further widen the gap between the rich and the poor. Trump is only protecting the interests of large corporations and multimillionaires.

Trump's first book after his removal from office will be, 'The Art of Making the Bankrupt USA Stay That Way for Decades'.

bald-faced lies

It's part of the group that values ideology over facts. It goes like this: Republicans are better with money and the stock market. Obama was a Democrat, so bad things must have happened. The end.

Economy grew 3.1% in the third quarter, one of the fastest recoveries in a long time

But not as fast as in 2015 under Obama. ;)

. Things a looking up finally.

They've been looking up for awhile. Since 2009 or so, the stock market has been climbing.

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/01/17/inside-the-obama-stock-markets-235-rise/amp/

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/30/news/economy/gdp-second-quarter-economy-3-percent/index.html

Look at the stock market. it's roaring. it was doing exactly the same thing leading up to the 2008 GFC under Bush, a $700billion bailout of the banks & auto industry that was pushed through without congressional approval and the massive pile of poo that was left over for Obama to clean up, which all things considering he did a pretty good job with what he had to work with. Now you've got Trump the tax dodger in power the big banks still selling sub prime home & auto loans under another name you've got another crisis stewing.

Trump is only doing this so all the money he has taken over the years goes to his kids.

Splay the whole plan and bill out for the whole public to see. Until then people should stop agreeing or disagreeing with something they no NOTHING about.

gokai_wo_manekuToday  08:29 am JST

The US guys at the office want to know if the reforms do anything to decrease the burden on Americans living overseas. Anyone know?

There is no burden on Americans living overseas - assuming their income is foreign and their income is in the vicinity of the average American household.

If the plan does not include the abolition of the IRS, which it should, it will be more of the same Republican "spend, create debt, spend, make rich people richer, spend, and lie about how magical elves will pay all of the debt in some future event."

I'm all for simplifying the US Income Tax code. Fewer brackets is a good idea.

Raising taxes on the lowest earners is abuse, unless the amount of deductions for low income people becomes high enough to exempt the previously impacted people from this completely. I doubt that.

Actually, I think the federal income tax on individuals is unconstitutional. The States have the responsibility for funding the federal govt. States should collect any taxes and pay for the feds.

Economy grew 3.1% in the third quarter, one of the fastest recoveries in a long time. Things a looking up finally.

"I think there's very little benefit for people of wealth," coming from a man who basically got YUGE tax deductions over the last 20yrs to cover his massive bankruptcy losses. and its your average middle class American who will be paying for it. the irony is thicker than molasses

The estate tax up to $11 million is zero. Trump is doing this for himself.

And Yuge deductions are going away in this. The benefits to the rich are clear, but any benefit to the middle class is fuzzy.

Trump is a bold liar and people and the uneducated masses don't know the difference between the truth and a lie.

Just saw an in-depth interview on a reputable middle-of-the-road news show.

Standard deductions are raised - $12K for singles. $24K for couples. This helps very low income people greatly. It helps me with my nearly $0 income as well.

Itemized deductions are effectively removed, except the mortgage interest deduction. That means trouble for states with high state/local income taxes, since those cannot be itemized off the federal taxes. I don't mind, since I don't live in a place like that. So sorry for the Northeast and California tax payers being screwed.

The AMT is gone, which helps upper middle-class people from being surprised at tax time.

There were some other interesting ideas that help small business owners passing their profits through to real people, not keeping them inside a corporate veil. That will be spent on vacations and large ticket items.

Very wealthy people get a pretty large tax cut. More money for them to spend.

Not certain how any of this helps solve the nearly $20T US National Debt, but if it helps continue the growth without over spending (which neither party has touched since 2001), then I'm all for it.

The greatest tax reform would come from term limits on the congress and senate.

It is via the tax code that the congress derives much of it's power. Through the tax code it can reward supporters and big donors by creating narrowly-defined exceptions and loopholes. And though the tax code it can punish those who withhold their support and donations. For this reason the tax code contains more than 75000 pages of rules and regulations.

If this isn't bad enough, look at the federal register and it's rules and regulations, which number some 1.5 million pages right now, and is growing at a rate of some 300 pages per day. All of this is the work of your elected leaders rewarding supporters and punishing opponents.

I know liberals want to always believe what they want, if you say an elephant is gray, libs will say, it's pink and try to brow beat you into thinking so.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2015/06/19/is-obama-to-blame-for-weak-economic-growth/#6e0d83445595

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7970/7-facts-show-obamas-economic-recovery-has-been-aaron-bandler

"I think there's very little benefit for people of wealth,"  coming from a man who basically got YUGE tax deductions over the last 20yrs to cover his massive bankruptcy losses. and its your average middle class American who will be paying for it. the irony is thicker than molasses

So if Trump can cut taxes across the board, bring the corporate tax down to 28-20-15% that would help the middle class a lot, but liberals think always that Robbing to give to Peter is the best way.

Remember, there's a reason why the Democrats are wandering through wilderness with the flora and fauna.

*"I think there's very little benefit for people of wealth,"  **coming from a man who basically got YUGE tax deductions over the last 20yrs to cover his massive bankruptcy losses. and its your average middle class American who will be paying for it. the irony is thicker than molasses*

So if Trump can cut taxes across the board, bring the corporate tax down to 28-20-15% that would help the middle class a lot, but liberals think always that Robbing to give to Peter is the best way.

Remember, there's a reason why the Democrats are wandering through wilderness with the flora and fauna.

The rich politicians will try to pass a tax plan that makes them richer. Not really surprising. The reduction in their taxes will have to be recouped somewhere else. The easiest path would be the middle class or increasing the debt.

The way Americans talk about 'paying for' a revenue cutting measure is so wacky.

Its like Americans think that everyone's money by default belongs to the government, so a tax cut is 'spending'.

Nonsense. Taxes are for revenue collection.

Spending is on the other side of the ledger.

Haha, silly me for trying to talk about tax with Americans. Good luck you lot!

But not as fast as in 2015 under Obama. ;)

But it never got to a consistent 3%, 8 years of a heavy and sluggish economy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/business/economy/gdp.html?mcubz=0

Even the hating NYT having to admit we are having a roaring time, stock market looks sweet.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/economys-2nd-quarter-growth-raised-to-31-2017-09-28

To save money, scrap the Office of Management & Budget.

I always wonder if people who oppose Japan's consumption tax hike are opposed to proposed tax cuts in the USA.

A pity you were under the impression the stock market didn't improve markedly under Obama. 

I wasn’t under any impression. Hey, I’m a social drinker.

How did you manage this incredible feat? Did you only start checking the stock market after Trump won? I'm genuinely interested.

No, I’m not dumb. I started checking it when Reagan was in office many moons ago.

Another plan to help the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 

The Democrats had 8 long torturous years to improve the stock market, bring up the GDP and redo the tax code and build up a strong private sector and they did NONE of it.

Now Trump is trying his best to lower the tax rate and the left are worried that the left will become even richer then they already are? Seriously?!

Tax plans that disproportionately help those that don't need it at the expense of those who do have only increased the deep divide since Ronald Reagan's "trickle down economics."

Better than increasing entitlements and balooning the deficit from robbing Paul to give to Peter.

Low-income Trump supporters: this is what you voted for!

Exactly, which many are from the middle class that the Democrats forgot and that were the backbone in having strong small businesses that built a lot of the Now dwindling middle class and made it into a super power. But I forget, liberals are the party of the affluent and progressive, we don’t give a crap about you society.

And this is one quarter, not "consistant." But nice backpedal.

No, it just started and if it takes off at this pace so early in his admin. and the market is more positive to get people to invest, 2nd term baby!

Wrong again. Total market returns under Obama were 235%,

Under 3% which equates to one of the sluggish economies ever. Ever wonder why Democrats lost 1000 legislative seats or is that some sort of mirage as well? LOL

bested only by Clinton (another Democrat). Under Bush? -30% return.

But that was the 90's and cereal wasn't $5-6 a box, keep it with the latest president.

Nowhere in the article does it say the economy is roaring

Look at the stock market. it's roaring. I'm happy and a lot of people are happy and feeling more confident. Kudos!

etc. It does, however, state that this was the fastest quarterly growth in two years. Remind me, who was president two years ago?

But there was zero growth in the private sector, almost no growth in the private small business industry and under 3% almost zero countries investing in the US market, horrible, but the Dems are winning elections like crazy because they are so good with money. ROFL

Washington Post already trying to convince us that the middle class doesn't even want a tax break they want "better government". That's the second most hilarious thing I read today. with the first being that these "Russian" Facebook ads that warranted 2 articles here actually included ads supporting Hillary and BLM.

Abolish the IRS!

Tax cuts for the wealthy and the big money corporations. 

Ok, so let’s screw small businesses as well, I mean, who cares about the middle class, let them shrink further into oblivion.

Yup; it pays to be rich. Sorry Puerto Rico, but you've got debts. I mean, Dotard was bailed out several times for bankruptcy but he's rich. 

Bailing out out one individual and bailing out an entire country is like comparing a goldfish to a Blue whale.

Rich people deserve to keep themselves and their pals wealthy.

So you must really hate all those Silicon Valley geeks and Hollywood elites, I do too.

I mean, rich people are useful, aren't they?

And yet, most of you guy use Google and Facebook, so you tell me.

This tax plan will be an economic disaster and overly optimistic growth projections are just putting lipstick on a pig.

That would depend, if the economy continues to grow at this rate and there’s more confidence in the market and people are willing to invest more, let the markets dictate, it should be fine and the economy will flourish as it did in the 80’s, but the current tax rate will continue to erode confidence in investments and encouraging more people to invest elsewhere and that really shouldn’t happen, we lost and are still losing too many businesses.

and then they can start to strip social programs. It's happened so often that you'd have to be dense to think they really believe the growth is coming

Oh, please, I think it would eventually spark growth in the private sector and more incentives, but I do believe we should cut a lot of social programs. At the current tax code rate, if we don’t change it, you will see continual erosion throughout the private sector.