world

Report finds COVID likely jumped to humans from bats through 'missing link'

69 Comments
By Nina LARSON

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2021 AFP

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.


69 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

I think this "missing link" has had a hand in many global events in modern human history.

-1 ( +16 / -17 )

Missing Link = chinese military; Biological Warefare Unit # xxx.

6 ( +25 / -19 )

The report meanwhile did not rule out transmission through frozen food -- Beijing's favored theory -- since the virus appears to be able survive at freezing temperatures, saying that "introduction via cold/ food chain products is considered possible".

And with that statement, this report has zero credibility.

16 ( +22 / -6 )

that all hypotheses remained on the table, and the organisation has urged patience as work continues to get to the bottom of the COVID origins mystery

In other words:

The world will never know the truth, because if the truth comes to light the world will go into a big mess and anger.

2 ( +15 / -13 )

We knew that a year ago. Most likely due to the illegal trade in pangolins, which are wildly popular for making traditional Chinese medicine.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

There has been zero proof that this happened. China made the virus, and then made a Vaccine. This virus has caused MASSIVE profits for the Chinese Gov't.

5 ( +21 / -16 )

Whitewash. And then we wonder why there is such a large number of doubters and cynics and conspiracy theorists around the world.

19 ( +25 / -6 )

I'd like to hear more about the theory about how it was transmitted through frozen food. We kept hearing that it was at the wet markets in Wuhan, so how would it get into frozen food products? And if that is the fact can we trust any food product coming from China?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

@Ricky Sanchez

I 100% agree with you.

I have the same opinion.

The Virus is engineered by China.

I know many people dont want to hear that and argue with scientific reports who shows it is not correct and so on...

I dont give a s...t about such reports.

My opinion is that China engineered the Virus in one of their Labs.

But like I said, the world will never know the truth, because we all can imagine what will happen in the world if my opinion is true, and an official report will be published and proof that.

7 ( +20 / -13 )

China made the virus, 

There is zero evidence that this is what happened.

-8 ( +14 / -22 )

Ya. the missing link is "Dont Eat Them!!!"

Its no surprise that recent epidemics originate from one country.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

@P.Smith

There is zero evidence that this is what happened.

Of course not!

All evidences are already destroyed by China.

11 ( +21 / -10 )

No, this virus isn’t a bioweapon.

https://www.newscientist.com/definition/coronavirus-come-lab/

One of the conspiracy theories that have plagued attempts to keep people informed during the pandemic is the idea that the coronavirus was created in a laboratory. But the vast majority of scientists who have studied the virus agree that it evolved naturally and crossed into humans from an animal species, most likely a bat.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/heres-how-scientists-know-the-coronavirus-came-from-bats-and-wasnt-made-in-a-lab-141850

But, yeah, China destroyed all the evidence. China even destroyed the viruses in other countries.

2 ( +14 / -12 )

Wasn't that an episode of South Park?...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Of course not!

All evidences are already destroyed by China.

Not too convincing.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Well, if you give any entity a year from being investigated, it'll be pretty difficult to find the truth.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

The Virus is engineered by China.

I know many people dont want to hear that and argue with scientific reports who shows it is not correct and so on...

I dont give a s...t about such reports.

My opinion is that China engineered the Virus in one of their Labs.

Well, that's your opinion and these days we have to fight to make our opinion heard, right? Fight Monty, Fight!

2 ( +12 / -10 )

And if you believe this then I have a bridge to sell you in Wuhan.

The scientists from WHO weren't given unrestricted access to all facilities. I'm not saying it's biological warfare but if China had nothing to hide then...

18 ( +20 / -2 )

The missing link is a Wuhan Lab run by the Chinese government! There, I fixed it!

17 ( +22 / -5 )

That missing link is the CHINESE scientists in the Wuhan Lab in CHINA. The CHINA virus from CHINA! Can you spot the clues to the missing link???CHINA???

CHINA

Look closely ◔_◔

13 ( +18 / -5 )

Of course, China and its government would never obscure the truth.

/s

The WHO sends a handful of scientists and administrators a year later. They spend a couple of hours asking questions. 

They're careful not to ask anything too embarrassing. And then they produce a report without any actual conclusions, and even mention the crackpot theory that it came from frozen food?

This is a mockery of an investigation.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

Yes China!

8 ( +11 / -3 )

If America was able to get into China in December of 2019 or maybe in January 2020 and investigate with a global team, maybe the truth would have been discovered. However, this is not the case. Now, you are all being lied to. And you believe the lies. If you just look at the facts, China has a lab in Wuhan [ has 3 ] that is the largest in China and they conduct biological weapon tests in that lab. A year later you all believe what a report is telling you and easily you just agree that COVID was from frozen food or Americans who visited the area. Thinking goes out the window for many in 2021.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

The world will never know the truth, because if the truth comes to light the world will go into a big mess and anger.

No, that assumes that your favorite theory, discarded by the scientific evidence of a natural origin would anger someone. The most likely explanation eventually will come forward as long as the CCP don't nuke into deserts two or three of their own provinces.

There has been zero proof that this happened. China made the virus, and then made a Vaccine. This virus has caused MASSIVE profits for the Chinese Gov't.

The opposite, the virus has all the telltales of being naturally produced and transmitted to humans, as it has happenend countless times before, and the chinese vaccine is a very minor contribuyent to world wide immunizations, developed after other countries had their own, this theory makes no sense.

The Virus is engineered by China.

So, on what data are you basing this huge contradiction of the opinion of the experts on the topic of the world? obviously you don't mean it is just based on your personal opinion about something you don't really understand, right?

All evidences are already destroyed by China

False, the virus sequence presents plenty of evidence of a natural origin and an unexplainable lack of evidence of artificial manipulation. And isolates from rural areas weeks before the ones from Wuhan already prove the "laboratory escape" theory as bogus.

The problem is that you think "evidence" means a paper trial, which makes as much sense as expecting crimes to be solved the same way. Everything that is done leaves evidence, including things that cannot be destroyed.

Your other problem is thinking your persona opinion somehow has even bigger weight than professional evaluations done by the scientific community of the world, which is obviously not valid.

This is a mockery of an investigation.

No, this is simply a complete misrepresentation of what the scientists (not criminal investigators) are actually trying to find. There is no reason for (nor realistic possibility of accomplishing) hiding the epidemiological and virological evidence that will lead to the origin of the SARS-CoV-2.

Pretending the research is being done to pin personal responsibilities is mistaken, this is about scientific discovering that hopefully will help preventing new cases in the future, not about pointing fingers.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

We will never know the true because CCP destroyed all the evidence but c'mon 1+1 is 2 correct? Thousands of wet market in China but by coincidence "something" happened in wet market just walking distance from the laboratory. One should be completely stupid to believe the WHO report orchestrated by CCP. It is a shame considering how many millions of people died.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Recombination events between coronaviruses is common and it is how they exchange large chunks of genetic material with each other. This is a natural occurrence and along with mutation and unfortunately for us, give the virus a lot of new genetic material to play with.

The below PLOS report shows that about 40% of the variations in the genomes among the variants are due to recombination events.

Recombination events are concentrated in the spike protein region of Betacoronaviruses

https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1009272

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

China lied and people died.

The world needs to hold the PRC accountable.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Former CDC Head believes it was made in a lab among other scientists worldwide. Neither side has proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt so why bother trying to convince the public one way or another? Fear of CCP retaliation?

The big mystery is why virologists still haven't figured out how the PRRA polybasic furin cleavage site got into Sars-Cov-2.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Buy and consume nothing from china, they cannot be trusted or depended on.

The C C P does not care for its own citizens so why would it have your best interests at heart and why would you think it would be concerned for your well being ?

The deniers and those who try to divert the truth are complicit in the deceit !

0 ( +8 / -8 )

MontyToday 07:07 am JST

The world will never know the truth, because if the truth comes to light the world will go into a big mess and anger.

If the real cause of Covid came to light it would start WW3, that's why we're playing this honne/tatamae game and fighting at a 5thGW level (for now)

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

The international expert mission to Wuhan was just a cover-up team. One of the principle members of the team was Peter Daszak; he is the president of EcoHealth Alliance and has very close ties with the WIV; he funded gain of function research at the WIV. He has close ties to Dr. Shi Zhengli (director of WIV’s Center for Emerging Infectious Diseases) who had been studying bat viruses for many years, including SARS-like coronaviruses. When the outbreak started the WIV altered and then removed online records of its work with bat corona viruses and other viruses.

And as Kumagaijin mentioned, according to the former director of the CDC, it is much more likely that SARSCoV2 originated from a lab, rather than naturally. He also mentioned that now that he is no longer with the CDC, he is finally entitled to have an opinion. So don’t expect any honest opinions form official organizations…

-2 ( +11 / -13 )

If the Chinese government, the CCP, had a history of telling the truth, then they might have hoped for some belief and sympathy from the world. Actually they have learned to live without such credibility.

Sadly we have seen that the truth is whatever suits their agenda. Whatever they tell the populace is automatically the truth, or you and yours are in serious trouble if you doubt it.

With such a background, an international investigation will have to be a fudge, a kludge, a patch, a salve, or whatever you want to call it, hopefully though with some remaining elements of credibility floating in the soup.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Well, you can see that there are people who, like the Trumpheads who stormed the Capitol building over a 'stolen election' completely dismissive of the notion that they might be wrong, even the highest authority after an investigation.

And there is a simple test to differentiate those who are in love with conspiracy theories, or in love with their hate and bigotry (and hiding their self loathing from themselves in the process) and that is to ask them if they think that the UK variant leaked from a British military bioweapons lab?

Or that the German government deliberately covered up the fact that the virus was being transmitted by people showing no symptoms of Covid19 (a German doctor did try and make that knowledge public, but it was suppressed for months)?

If they dismiss these possibilities, they're not the sort of folks who believe in conspiracy theories, they're the sort of folks who spread conspiracy theories to inspire hate.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

In oct. 2017 US halted funding for new risky virus studies, and called for voluntary moratorium to minimize the risks of dangerous virus leaks from labs (these included studies of MERS and SARS viruses). Now WHO telling us that such research is basically safe and China can continue to do so.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

China should have allowed the scientists and experts in much earlier (as China and all other countries are supposed to), but they didn't. As a matter of fact, it appears that China willfully made it a deadly global pandemic because they selfishly didn't want to go through this mess they made alone. They wanted to share it! So they allowed their own citizens to travel abroad even when they couldn't travel within China. Why?! Now, hundreds of thousands of deaths later around the world, it's just a question of time before more damning evidence comes out which points towards China. Countries of the entire planet need to reevaluate rules which hold everyone accountable for disasters they create, hide and spread. China did all three of these.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@virusrex

Like I said before, you only stick on data and scientific reports.

Or experts and professional evaluations.

I guess you dont have an own opinion.

If a scientific report or some experts say, tomorrow all stones will turn into Gold, you will believe that, right?

I mean that is ok, everyone has his own way to evaluate things.

But in my opinion, to see the world like you do, just by reports, data and mostly self nominated experts, is a very blue eyed way to see the world.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

It pointed to the fact that there was no record of any virus resembling SARS-CoV-2 in any laboratory before December 2019, and stressed high safety levels at the labs in Wuhan.

Ha-ha, there is no record. Is it possible for such record to survive and get on WHO table? The WHO is receiving a filtered input and making conclusions from that. It is hardly an investigation.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Former CDC Head believes it was made in a lab among other scientists worldwide.

He also mentioned that now that he is no longer with the CDC, he is finally entitled to have an opinion. So don’t expect any honest opinions form official organizations…

The problem is that he cannot sustain that belief with evidence, and the available evidence contradicts him, that is the thing with science, the name of the person is hugely less important than the evidence this person has to support what he says.

Not being part of an organization that puts evidence first before personal beliefs makes him entitled to be wrong as a particular, the only reputation he is ruining (by going against the evidence) is is own, at it should be.

If the real cause of Covid came to light it would start WW3, that's why we're playing this honne/tatamae game and fighting at a 5thGW level (for now)

Action movie plots are a terribly bad basis for explaining reality, scientific data is much more likely to be correct.

In oct. 2017 US halted funding for new risky virus studies, and called for voluntary moratorium to minimize the risks of dangerous virus leaks from labs (these included studies of MERS and SARS viruses).

That is misleading, the studies put on temporary halt were not generalized but only one single kind of research, the rest of the projects involving dangerous pathogens continued without problem, and the ones paused resumed later after being properly vetted.

This "dangerous virus research" is precisely the one responsible for developing a general strategy for vaccine production against highly pathogenic coronavirus, the one that managed to make and test properly safe and effective vaccines against COVID in less than a year.

All data, reports...and especially all the so called experts predicted that the world will go into Chaos when we go from 1999 to 2000.

That is not true, experts predicted this could be a possibility if no mitigation measures were taken, obviously nobody just ignored the warnings and that is how the majority of the problems were avoided, the same thing would have happened with the pandemic if governments were not so investing in ignoring the epidemiologists.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

*If America was able to get into China** in December of 2019 or maybe in January 2020 and investigate with a global team, maybe the truth would have been discovered. *

Kind of like the way the truth about 9/11 was unearthed by a US "investigation" :)

9 ( +9 / -0 )

I can count on one hand how many people in the world believe this report.

The good news for the CCP, though, is Biden has no interest in going after them. Hmmmmm, wonder why?

CCP tentacles run long and deep...

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Bat soup. From a market that looks to be out of the middle ages. Who woulda thunk it?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And now the experts have put forward their own conspiracy theory.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

virusrexToday  09:22 am JST

The world will never know the truth, because if the truth comes to light the world will go into a big mess and anger.

No, that assumes that your favorite theory, discarded by the scientific evidence of a natural origin would anger someone. The most likely explanation eventually will come forward as long as the CCP don't nuke into deserts two or three of their own provinces.

There has been zero proof that this happened. China made the virus, and then made a Vaccine. This virus has caused MASSIVE profits for the Chinese Gov't.

The opposite, the virus has all the telltales of being naturally produced and transmitted to humans, as it has happenend countless times before, and the chinese vaccine is a very minor contribuyent to world wide immunizations, developed after other countries had their own, this theory makes no sense.

The Virus is engineered by China.

So, on what data are you basing this huge contradiction of the opinion of the experts on the topic of the world? obviously you don't mean it is just based on your personal opinion about something you don't really understand, right?

All evidences are already destroyed by China

False, the virus sequence presents plenty of evidence of a natural origin and an unexplainable lack of evidence of artificial manipulation. And isolates from rural areas weeks before the ones from Wuhan already prove the "laboratory escape" theory as bogus. 

The problem is that you think "evidence" means a paper trial, which makes as much sense as expecting crimes to be solved the same way. Everything that is done leaves evidence, including things that cannot be destroyed.

Your other problem is thinking your persona opinion somehow has even bigger weight than professional evaluations done by the scientific community of the world, which is obviously not valid.

This is a mockery of an investigation.

No, this is simply a complete misrepresentation of what the scientists (not criminal investigators) are actually trying to find. There is no reason for (nor realistic possibility of accomplishing) hiding the epidemiological and virological evidence that will lead to the origin of the SARS-CoV-2.

Pretending the research is being done to pin personal responsibilities is mistaken, this is about scientific discovering that hopefully will help preventing new cases in the future, not about pointing fingers.

If you're so confident the Chinese government and the WHO are telling the truth, post some incontrovertible links instead of making assertions, like you criticize others for doing.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

The 'missing link' is obviously the Lab in Wuhan.

7 ( +15 / -8 )

The report apparently partly written by Chinese government.

Bats the cause but missing link to how they transmitted it to people. As others have said the lab in Wuhan experimenting on bat viruses the most likely missing link but WHO has totally ruled this out although never explained why.

Chinese government wanted to go with the frozen food story or the American athletes who visited Wuhan, but I guess these were too implausible even for the WHO so they compromised on bats with a totally unknown missing link as long as that is not the lab

5 ( +10 / -5 )

It's funny. The same persons who attack the USA elections conspiracy theories are ardent believers that China has created COVID.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

If you're so confident the Chinese government and the WHO are telling the truth, post some incontrovertible links instead of making assertions, like you criticize others for doing.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-not-human-made-lab-genetic-analysis-nature

https://apnews.com/article/9391149002

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/coronavirus-origins-misinformation-yan-report-fact-check-cvd

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-scientists-think-the-novel-coronavirus-developed-naturally-not-in-a-chinese-lab/

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/

https://mediamanipulation.org/case-studies/cloaked-science-yan-reports

I mean, by this point assuming people do not know this evidence is almost insulting, a couple of seconds googling "science COVID origin" can give you dozens of links like these.

As others have said the lab in Wuhan experimenting on bat viruses the most likely missing link but WHO has totally ruled this out although never explained why.

The less people know the more likely they are to believe this theory, the WHO as every other scientific and medical professional organization of the world have people that actually know about the topic and that is why they know there is no need to consider seriously something that goes against evidence, If you don't want to read the explanations that is one thing, but it is very different from this explanation not being widely available.

A very important fact is that humans cases have been detected weeks before the outbreak in Wuhan, in more rural areas (exactly as expected from a natural introduction) but the conspiracy believers totally want everybody to think is possible for the SARS-CoV-2 virus to escape from the lab, pass thru patients around the very crowded city of Wuhan but without making any outbreak and without being detected, then go to rural areas, cause some cases there and then go back to the city and this time producing the obvious outbreak...

That is completely unrealistic, impossible to believe.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

There is zero evidence that this is what happened.

True, but there is also no evidence of the opposite. And we are talking about a country that buried an entire train to hide evidence of a crash, so there is always the possibility.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

so.... quite a few people strongly hold the opinion that it was a plot by China. if it was.... so what? what's going to happen? what can anyone do about it? as in other venues, online and otherwise but mainly the former, 'discussion' seems to go along the lines of "I'm right" "no, I'm right".... and all of it affects the way the world turns exactly how much? I guess 'being right' makes people feel better, but.... watch those stress-levels people.... maybe divert the energy to doing good?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

can we trust any food product coming from China?

Of course not.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Viruses are not created by people. Screwy Louie Farrakhan claims the US government invented AIDS to destroy Blacks. Don trashTrump lies, gossips and makes up the stupidest rumors and conspiracy theories.

bakakumaToday  08:12 am JST

Ya. the missing link is "Dont Eat Them!!!"

Its no surprise that recent epidemics originate from one country.

Bryan Adams recently posted an idiotic racist preachy pro-vegan tweet claiming it was by 'bat eaters', because he got upset that he couldn't tour last year. Wah.

MarkXToday  07:37 am JST

I'd like to hear more about the theory about how it was transmitted through frozen food. We kept hearing that it was at the wet markets in Wuhan, 

And the biased US media helped stoke violence against Far Eastern descended people by planting these theories into the boorish, uniformed, lunkheaded American public.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

An international expert mission to Wuhan concluded in a report seen Monday that COVID-19 likely first passed to humans from a bat through an intermediary animal, with investigators all but ruling out a laboratory leak.

As predicted, the useful servants at the WHO say exactly what the CCP wants them to say after being wined and dined by the CCP.

Can someone remind me why Biden reversed Trumps WHO withdrawal, and began to fund this CCP outfit again?

0 ( +8 / -8 )

jiji

so.... quite a few people strongly hold the opinion that it was a plot by China.

It does not have to be a "plot", it can simply be an accident, as Robert Redfield from the CDC suggests:

https://news.yahoo.com/former-cdc-director-redfield-says-130733234.html

Of course, in CCP China, accidents never happen, so it was covered up and whistleblowers disappeared.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

In re: the photo used with THIS accompanying article, we did NOT see such a depiction of ‘emergency actions’ depicted by the media in early Dec 2019. What is the date and location of this phot being used?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Happy Day

I can count on one hand how many people in the world believe this report.

You need big hands. The mainstream media consumers that believed the Russia hoax, the fine people hoax, the bleach hoax and all the other hoaxes will believe this too.

It is a question of staying within the bubble or not.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Whitewash. And then we wonder why there is such a large number of doubters and cynics and conspiracy theorists around the world.

kind of illogical. You call it a whitewash, which it is, but then you use “then we wonder why”. Did this whitewash take you by surprise? If it didn’t then you’re just as much a conspiracy theorist as the next guy, and can have your Twitter account turned off for saying so. Crazy world with Banksters and Corps calling the shots is never a good thing.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The problem is that he cannot sustain that belief with evidence, and the available evidence contradicts him, that is the thing with science, the name of the person is hugely less important than the evidence this person has to support what he says.

Researchers form the WIV published papers on their coronavirus gain of function research, and they were cited for unsafe practices. That is way more evidence than for natural emergence.

They send someone connected to this research to "investigate" the origins of the virus! They just assumed it emerged naturally and say there must be some unknown "missing link". You call that evidence? Just someone writing an article does not automatically make it evidence.

Regarding former CDC director Redfield's comments, this is what he said:

"That's not implying any intentionality, it's my opinion. But I am a virologist, I have spent my life in virology.

"I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human, and at that moment in time, the virus that came to the human became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transmission. Normally when a pathogen goes from a zoonotic to human, it takes a while for it to figure out how to become more and more efficient in human-to-human transmission. I just don't think this makes biological sense."

"Let's just say I have coronavirus that I'm working on. Most of us in the lab, we're trying to grow virus. We try to help make it grow better and better and better and better and better and better, so we can do experiments and figure out about it. That's the way I put it together."

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

A very important fact is that humans cases have been detected weeks before the outbreak in Wuhan, in more rural areas

Fact? You keep bringing this up, as if it was the absolute truth. Why would anyone assume this information provided by the CCP is truthful? You go on and on and on ... about science this and science that, but to do good science, you need good data...

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Researchers form the WIV published papers on their coronavirus gain of function research, and they were cited for unsafe practices. That is way more evidence than for natural emergence.

The opposite, because their research showed a completely different process of adaptation, human directed adaptation is simpler, easier to get and would be the natural expected process to be followed, up to the point where the natural adaptation, messy, overcomplicated and much less likely happened and took everybody by surprise. This is more evidence that the virus appeared naturally and not in a laboratory setting.

They send someone connected to this research to "investigate" the origins of the virus! 

How many internationally recognized coronavirus experts can you find that have absolutely no connection to the laboratory made specifically to study highly pathogenic coronaviruses? You understand that scientific research is based on collaborations across countries right? If you want to argue that a conflict of interest makes your irrational conspiracy theory more likely to be true that is completely mistaken, something that is contradicted by the scientific evidence do not becomes magically congruent according to the people investigating it.

That's not implying any intentionality, it's my opinion. But I am a virologist, I have spent my life in virology.

And that should be why he should understand the absolute necessity of data, being a virologist do not make him immune to bias or being human and making mistakes, that is why professionals provide the evidence that led them to contradict the scientific consensus, not having that evidence but still believing they are right against the opposite opinion of the scientific community is not as valuable as you think it is. All comes to the evidence. That is the problem with believing conspiracy theories, since they are completely dependent on the fame of the people that believe them (and complete lack of evidence) it makes the conspiracy fans believe this is how you prove things, it is not.

Fact? You keep bringing this up, as if it was the absolute truth. Why would anyone assume this information provided by the CCP is truthful? You go on and on and on ... about science this and science that, but to do good science, you need good data...

Because nobody has to trust anything provided by the CCP, just read and evaluate the scientific evidence and say if you find something that is unexpected, contrary to the rest of the evidence or contradicted by the different analysis of the scientists of the rest of the world that unequivocally point out that the first human cases were weeks before the Wuhan market outbreak.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210318185328.htm

Not believing something just because it proves your theory as impossible is not a valid argument, to refute scientific evidence you need contrary evidence of at least the same quality and quantity.

Actually, I never liked Zombie movies and Qanon. But I would say that those who believe SARSCoV2 emerged naturally are probably great fans of Brian Steltzer and Fredo Cuomo.

Or not being science deniers, so they would not have problems accepting the opinion of the experts of the world that in general consider the natural origin the only realistic explanation, after all that is what has happened endlessly times before without needing magical viruses that spread first outside the city of the laboratory from which it supposedly escape and only go back to it after a few weeks.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Got it, and it was easy. The missing link are the researchers themselves, who took samples from those very far away mountain caves with the infected bats and drove it directly to the lab. Otherwise you need a whole Arche Noah of different animals to bridge the distance from high mountains to a raw meat market in a big city with millions of inhabitants. And such we served both theories, it came from the lab, but through missing links. q.e.d.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

This "dangerous virus research" is precisely the one responsible for developing a general strategy for vaccine production against highly pathogenic coronavirus, the one that managed to make and test properly safe and effective vaccines against COVID in less than a year.

And conversely, the research could also have produced and allowed an altered virus to make its way out into the world.

It is the case that clinicians, scientists and technicians make mistakes.

In military funded labs like the one in Wuhan what are the chances?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

The less people know the more likely they are to believe this theory, the WHO as every other scientific and medical professional organization of the world have people that actually know about the topic and that is why they know there is no need to consider seriously

That is exactly the point.

They don't want to consider more seriously because all these medical institutions, laboratories and organizations don’t want the world to know the truth.

They always want to show the world that all medical institutions and Laboratories are save.

They would never agree that in any Laboratory in the world or in any medical institution a dangerous virus is engineered and can be released by accident or even on purpose.

They want to give the world a clear picture of save Laboratories and medical institutions.

Somebody engineered a virus like that in a Laboratory or medical institution? Never!

A virus escaped from a Laboratory? Never!

The people who you called, “the organizations have people”, don’t want the world to ask more questions about what real happened at Wuhan.

They don’t want that the world still continues to question about the Wuhan Laboratory or any other Laboratory safety.

They want to bring this topic to an end.

And the WHO?

Everybody knows what was going on between China and the Who in the beginning of the pandemic.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

All right then. If there is no conclusive evidence of the virus being engineered in a lab, then it is certain that their disgusting food habits are to blame. Or maybe their propensity to annihilate entire species for their traditional medicine.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

And conversely, the research could also have produced and allowed an altered virus to make its way out into the world.

But it did not, according to the best available evidence examined by science (obviously even ignoring anything the CCP has to say about it). So your position is that we should not have a huge improvement that will ease very importantly the cost of the pandemic just because you want to imagine (against what science says it happened) that something bad happened? that makes no sense, at least try to defend first this supposedly leak of a magically teleporting/time travelling virus rationally first and then try to make it your argument.

Saying that a very real benefit is not worth an imaginary cost is not a rational argument.

It is the case that clinicians, scientists and technicians make mistakes.

In military funded labs like the one in Wuhan what are the chances?

Compare with the millions of interactions that humans have with wild animals that have introduced uncountable pathogens to the world? astronomically lower, even more if you need for that mistake to produce a magical virus that behaves exactly as expected from a natural introduction instead of a laboratory escape.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

That is exactly the point.

They don't want to consider more seriously because all these medical institutions, laboratories and organizations don’t want the world to know the truth.

the ones that don't want to know the truth are those that insist on ignoring evidence when they don't like the perfectly valid conclusions reached thanks to it.

Do you know what part of the scientific evidence depends on the laboratory of Wuhan being perfectly safe? absolutely none of it. The laboratory could have been a complete mess and that would have never produced a virus that could evade every single human of a crowded city to appear for weeks in a rural environment first. A mistake could not produce a virus that developed naturally in a completely different direction than was it was predicted to have to bind to human cells receptors.

You keep trying very hard to ignore these very real reasons why the natural origin is the only realistic explanation, and even with this terribly obvious effort to be in denial (without ever even trying to disprove these arguments) you accuse the professionals that do research for a living of doing it badly for some imaginary reason.

Sorry but that only show your bias. If multiple reasons points to some conclusion, and you cannot refute any of those reasons the rational thing to do is to accept that conclusion. If you instead say that surely everybody must be wrong (without proving it) just because you like very very much a different conclusion, that means the one that don't want to know the truth is you.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Researchers from the WIV published papers on their coronavirus gain of function research, and they were cited for unsafe practices. That is way more evidence than for natural emergence.

The opposite, because their research showed a completely different process of adaptation, human directed adaptation is simpler, easier to get and would be the natural expected process to be followed, up to the point where the natural adaptation, messy, overcomplicated and much less likely happened and took everybody by surprise. This is more evidence that the virus appeared naturally and not in a laboratory setting.

I'm glad you are finally accepting that the natural adaptation is messy, overcomplicated and much less likely. But I really don't see how that is "more evidence that the virus appeared naturally and not in a laboratory setting"!!!

Anyway, I never said that the WIV published the actual creation of SARSCoV2, just that they published a number of different papers over many years using different approaches to conduct gain of function research on bat coronaviruses, to give them the ability to infect humans. This included using humanized mice (expressing human ACE2 receptor?).

And there is also this (https://ge.usembassy.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan-institute-of-virology/):

"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses."

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

It pointed to the fact that there was no record of any virus resembling SARS-CoV-2 in any laboratory before December 2019

I remember this came up a lot at the start of the pandemic, and I never figured out why people made such a big deal out of it. Some naive posters used it as evidence that SARS-CoV-2 must be a natural virus. But why would anyone assume that the sequence of a new bat coronavirus isolated in nature by the CCP military would automatically be made publicly available?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

SARS-CoV-2 must be a natural virus.

Yes, this is Science and not Hollywood

And the next viruses will be natural ones as well. Scientists are worried about even worse pandemics...again, based on Science. And if the next pandemics evolve out of labs then which labs? The same one in Wuhan or a different one?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I'm glad you are finally accepting that the natural adaptation is messy, overcomplicated and much less likely. But I really don't see how that is "more evidence that the virus appeared naturally and not in a laboratory setting"!!!

No, you misrepresent the comment, In this specific case researchers predicted an elegant and simple way to make the coronavirus spike protein to bind strongly to the ACE2 receptors with few changes from the most common sequence, this is what is shown in the research they published.

Then comes SARS-CoV-2 and again, in this specific case, shows very high binding ability to ACE2 by a completely different mechanism, much less efficient (required a longer series of mutations instead of just a few changes, and resulting in a sequence very different from what was predicted) Obviously if the researchers were working in a different direction, and that they could have produced a pathogenic virus in the way their research showed, but the actual virus that appear is different that points out much more strongly to the natural appearance.

Is like having an toxicologist expert in chemical poisons as your suspect from a murder done by punching someone to death, the job of the suspect provides more proof that if he did the crime he could have done it much more easily and with less risk.

"The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses."

Well, duh! it is the season for infectious respiratory diseases, there is a reason why COVID-19 cannot be identified only by symptoms since they are so common.

Obviously this also acts against the conspiracy theory, because you have a pathogen that is already well adapted to transmitting between humans, right? so why it did not cause several outbreaks in the city at this time? how come there was nothing out of the common and a sudden increases of cases happening? you already have several symptomatic cases, which would indicate other that were asymptomatic.

Instead the virus magically escape from the city without causing any outbreaks, and against every epidemiology book begins to cause infections in less populated areas, exactly as if it was introduced from the wild, and only after weeks of spreading like this it begins to cause outbreaks all around, including in a populous city where it is very evident.

Terribly sorry, but the outbreak in the laboratory requires the city of Wuhan to be the place of the first human cases, in reality we already know that is not true, and that other places had human cases weeks before the market outbreak.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites