As COVID summer surge in U.S. wanes, more mandates in the works

Natural immunity! With the amount of people catching and recovering from Covid, the best form of defence (Natural immunity) will be a large factor in declining numbers worldwide where ever they have avoided total lockdowns. Health organizations have said that actual infection rates are 10~20 times higher which means probably 30~40% of people in non lockdown countries already have natural immunity.

Evidence of side effects are mounting.

No they aren't.

Yeah, there’s no wide spread evidence of mounting side effects. There’s few and far between instances as there are with any vaccine that is given to literally hundreds of millions of people. Your likelihood of being hit by lightning twice is greater.

And natural immunity is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go since it means getting COVID, possibly getting quite sick and dying.

“I don’t need to get the Polio vaccine. I prefer natural immunity!” Said absolutely no one ever.

And this doesn’t even take into account long-haul effects or the economic costs. Several hundred thousand dollars in medical bills for days in an ICE on a vent or a no cost out of pocket shot. Your call but I can see a day when insurance companies stop paying medical bills for the willingly unvaccinated

Long story short, vaccines are safe and effective. They are the only way out of this pandemic.

All arguments to the contrary are attempts at disinformation.

And no matter how much the anti-vaxxers scream and moan, vaccine mandates work.

To the “FREEDUMB!” lovers I say, You don’t have to like it. Get vaccinated or lose privileges, not rights, privileges. Jobs in ever more numerous industries, the ability to frequent social gatherings, attend public events, travel. And the best part (for us anyway) is that you did it to yourself. You self-selected by your economically irrational choice to not get a proven safe and effective vaccine.

P. SmithToday  07:49 am JST

Burning BushToday  07:10 am JST

Evidence of side effects are mounting.*

You’ve been saying this from day one.

Right you are Smith, and no one believes it!

So with 45million confirmed cases in the US...even at double that figure of actual cases 30% nowe have natural immunity. Being that most cases are mild to asymptomatic it is more likely at least triple to 4 times the number so with the partial immunity of vaccination included most of the country now has some for of immunity.

Seems like they're doing everything they can to keep us locked and pegged down, always something new and never ending.

Evidence of side effects are mounting.

Incorrect.

Incorrect.

Well, that is one opinion.

Natural immunity! With the amount of people catching and recovering from Covid, the best form of defence (Natural immunity) will be a large factor in declining numbers worldwide where ever they have avoided total lockdowns. Health organizations have said that actual infection rates are 10~20 times higher which means probably 30~40% of people in non lockdown countries already have natural immunity.

Yup, I believe it.

Evidence of side effects are mounting.

Dobreyo, please don’t spread disinformation.

Thr number of infections, hospitalization ps are going down due to the vaccines.

Seems like they're doing everything they can to keep us locked and pegged down, always something new and never ending.

If you aren’t smart enough to take vaccines , wear masks then you should be locked and pegged down, for your own safety.

Well, that is one opinion.

Science is not an opinion, even homeschooling should teach you that!!!

Across the nation, deaths per day have dropped by nearly 15% since mid-September and are now averaging about 1,750. New cases have fallen to just over 103,000 per day on average, a 40% decline over the past three weeks.

Excellent news!

For those who are obese or have other serous personal choice or unexpected health problems you probably should get vaccinated, everyone can survive this with well known treatments as natural immunity after getting Covid is much much better than those so called vaccines and the boosters that are coming.

Governments are also using this to totally alter the free world. They must be stopped!

The biggest threat to America today is the poorly educated people succumbing to disinformation spread by Russia and China.

Raising doubts about the vaccine, railing against masks result in a faster spread of infections and puts more pressure on the nation.

Unfortunately the people on the right are not bright enough to understand this

lindsey realized this yesterday in Dorchester when he was booed for recommending people to take the vaccine. Not a surprise he backed down, Moral courage and the GOP aren’t compatible.

Did you have an anti-body test after you recovered from covid?

No, but I know I’m good to go.

Vermont, The highest vaccinated state in New England at nearly 70%. Yet....

"Case counts in Vermont, which has continually boasted about high vaccination and low hospitalization and death rates, are the highest during the pandemic. Hospitalizations are approaching the pandemic peak from last winter and September was Vermont’s second-deadliest month during the pandemic."

How is it that there are almost as many hospitalizations and deaths than when there was no vaccine at all and when no one was vaccinated yet?

How is it that there are almost as many hospitalizations and deaths than when there was no vaccine at all and when no one was vaccinated yet?

Source please?

Vermont, The highest vaccinated state in New England at nearly 70%. Yet....

Someone clearly left out per-capita numbers as they would have destroyed the narrative they were trying to paint.

Oh dear.

@Black, I found the article you're referencing. (It'd be helpful if you'd just post up a link there next time)

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-pandemics-vermont-d25aae90b2dda65b3d1c2c0d5d00156c

It looks like an AP article, excellent. Let's look at what else the article has to say.

Dr. Tim Lahey, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Vermont Medical Center in Burlington, said he felt it was important to look at the situation more optimistically.

Unlike some others in the region his Vermont hospital is busy, not overwhelmed. People still need to be cautious, but they are not locked down and outside life has a semblance of normality.

“We all hate the word ‘delta’ now, but has vaccination made it so we can withstand the brunt of delta with losing fewer of our neighbors while still having the quality of life that we enjoy in Vermont?” he said. “Yeah.”

Isn't it interesting that Dr. Lahey, an infectious disease specialist, completely disagrees with the anti-vaxxers here. Why do we still have problems with Covid-19? It's simple, you have a bunch of idiots who refuse to get vaccinated, tested, social distance, or even wear masks.

Nope, you have 70% vaccinated.

Yet the hospitalization and death rate is similar to when 0% were vaccinated and there was NO vaccine.

no way to spin that one.

or even wear masks.

masks are political theater. Rashid Talib said such, on video.

So you are seriously back to trying to add testing, masks and....social distancing? there is a 70% vaccination rate compared to 0% before.

Have you not seen all these maskless events being held such as the Emmys? Fully vaccinated guy with no health conditions, he died.

Bridgerton's Emmy Award–winning hair and makeup designer Marc Pilcher has died of COVID-19, his agent Curtis Brown confirmed to BuzzFeed News.

Pilcher, who died Sunday at the age of 53, was fully vaccinated and had no underlying health conditions before he attended the Emmy Awards ceremony, his family and friends said in a statement to Variety.

I do except science that is the reason why we know I’m good and I could care less what the left are trying to force feed me,

Freudian slip?

When you except science you are not accepting it.

Doesn't matter if its the left, right or the ambidextrous who are feeing you.

Nope, you have 70% vaccinated.

Again, you're misinterpreting what the science says. Pathetic.

So you are seriously back to trying to add testing, masks and....social distancing? there is a 70% vaccination rate compared to 0% before.

No. I'm pointing out that anti-vaxxers such as yourself refuse to do anything to mitigate the spread of the disease. Teachers in my home state, for example, are required to either show proof of vaccination or be tested weekly. They won't even do that. Conservatives don't care about anyone but themselves. It's pathetic.

masks are political theater. Rashid Talib said such, on video.

lmao Is she an infectious disease experts? I couldn't care less what she says.

It is public knowledge that in the US there were just at 400k deaths from covid on January 20th 

I'm talking about posting the source. OP routinely takes snippets of articles out of context and or neglects to post links to what they're quoting.

With 70% vaccination rate you have fewer and fewer unvaccinated to blame for hospitalization and death been almost the same as 0% vaccination rate.

at some point you have to admit vaccinated people are in the hospital and dying too. You only have 30 left to blame per hundred. but the number is nearly the same as when it was 100 of 100 to blame?

but it’s easier to deflect to criticizing individual posters, I get that. Wah, someone didn’t post a link that my 5 second Google search found.

and cite as supporting evidence for your arguments.

as you do with CNN. when there is actual data, it doesnt matter what website link is presented. Or are you saying what the AP report is incorrect? no, Im sure you arent saying that, just deflecting from what it says.

Same as the person who went to the maskless, no social distance Emmys and died. Whether its Buzzfeed, or an alt right site or the worst left wing site ever, the facts are the same. He was double vaccinated yet died from COVID, this is clear and factual.

Same as what is happening in Vermont and other Northeast highly vaccinated states, that is NOT happening in the red states in the South (so inconvenient to the narrative, I know)

With 70% vaccination rate you have fewer and fewer unvaccinated to blame for hospitalization and death been almost the same as 0% vaccination rate.

oh, really? So tell me, why does the infectious disease expert in the link you quoted encourage people to get vaccinated? What do you know that the infectious disease expert doesn't?

at some point you have to admit vaccinated people are in the hospital and dying too. You only have 30 left to blame per hundred. but the number is nearly the same as when it was 100 of 100 to blame?

I never denied that some vaccinated people may die. Ever. No one has. What I have done, and will continue to do is point out that your chances of dying, getting sick, or getting others sick is far, far less if you are vaccinated. Just look at what the actual experts are saying.

but it’s easier to deflect to criticizing individual posters, I get that. Wah, someone didn’t post a link that my 5 second Google search found.

Or maybe you could just follow moderation policy. How about that?

https://japantoday.com/moderation-policy

https://www.weeklyblitz.net/health/pfizer-scientists-admit-natural-immunity-better-than-vaccine/

Interesting Natural immunity IS better than Vaccine immunity...Who would have thought it...

No doubt they have both played a role but anyone claiming vaccinated immunity trumps Natural immunity needs to go back to school!

Freudian slip?

No

When you except science you are not accepting it.

Doesn't matter if its the left, right or the ambidextrous who are feeing you.

Ok, that’s how you think, I think differently.

 You and your friends have constantly cited CNN.

you cited CNN 2 weeks ago, I called you out and the moderator protected you, said I was "impolite" to point that out in front of everyone. Anyway, attacking other posters is just deflection from the facts of this matter.

Vaccination of 70% has almost no better outcome than vaccination of 0% in Vermont. It cant be true that this is only unvaccinated people causing this. death and hospitalization.

Data and science says so, and multiple legitimate media has reported such.

No doubt they have both played a role but anyone claiming vaccinated immunity trumps Natural immunity needs to go back to school!

Yup, because the weeklyblitz says so. Has anyone ever heard of weeklyblitz? Fascinating site run by a true visionary.

Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury (born 12 January 1965) is the editor of the Bangladeshi tabloid Weekly Blitz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salah_Choudhury

What I have done, and will continue to do is point out that your chances of dying, getting sick, or getting others sick is far, far less if you are vaccinated.

then why is there no difference in deaths and hospitalization of a 70% vaccinated population compared to a 0% vaccinated population.

Your story doesnt match the data and facts presented.

*"Case counts in Vermont, which has continually boasted about high vaccination and low hospitalization and death rates, are the highest during the pandemic.  second-deadliest month during the pandemic."*

Case counts- "Highest during the pandemic". Deaths and hospitalization- "second deadliest month"

Get vaccinated! Why? 70% did and there is little to no change.

Vaccination of 70% has almost no better outcome than vaccination of 0% in Vermont. It cant be true that this is only unvaccinated people causing this. death and hospitalization.

Lol Not true. Why do actual infectious disease experts continue to encourage people there to get vaccinated?

Data and science says so, and multiple legitimate media has reported such.

That is not what the data says. That is not what the science says. That is not what actual scientists say.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

And from the National Institutes of Health...

I bet the Pharma lobbyists are in overdrive trying to get Govts to only accept vaccination as a valid defence against Covid, when the Govts own data suggests the opposite or similar at best!

Why do actual infectious disease experts continue to encourage people there to get vaccinated?

the narrative.

That is not what the data says. That is not what the science says. That is not what actual scientists say.

the narrative.

You cant explain how a 0% and 70% vaccinated population has MORE cases and near the same number of deaths and people in the hospital. With a supposedly less deadly Delta variant that vaccinated people are barely affected by,

Explain that, then you win.

is the information in the AP story inaccurate or not true?

there are NOT more cases and NOT almost the same number of deaths and people in hospital as there was pre-vaccine? or is that factual?

then why is there no difference in deaths and hospitalization of a 70% vaccinated population compared to a 0% vaccinated population.

Because that is factually incorrect. It is not true that there is no difference in deaths and hospitalizations between vaccinated an unvaccinated.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/vermont/#graph-deaths-daily

Also, please not there is no mask mandate and the state is opened up now, which makes it difficult to make an apple to apples comparison between now (with no masks and vaccinations) and last year when the state was locked down and masks were required.

Case counts- "Highest during the pandemic". Deaths and hospitalization- "second deadliest month"

How many of those were vaccinated and how many of those unvaccinated?

Takeda,

As a known "Meme Stock Trading Specialist" Black is an expert in data analysis, just trust him....

the narrative.

lmao Whose narrative? You don't think you have a "narrative"?

You cant explain how a 0% and 70% vaccinated population has MORE cases and near the same number of deaths and people in the hospital. With a supposedly less deadly Delta variant that vaccinated people are barely affected by,

lolz I've already explained it. You have everything reopened. There is no social distancing, there are no mask mandates. People like you don't even support wearing masks. It's hardly a surprise numbers are elevated, given the fact that anti-vax/anti-mask folks refuse to cooperate.

This is exactly what I am talking about:

MONTPELIER, Vt. —

As COVID-19 hospitalizations continue to rise in Vermont, state health officials say an overwhelming majority of recent admissions have been among unvaccinated adults who are eligible to get a vaccine.

In a pandemic briefing Tuesday, top health leaders said roughly 80% of those receiving hospital care for the disease during the past week have been unvaccinated. In intensive care units, the percentage during that period is even higher — approximately 84% of those being treated were not vaccinated.

https://www.mynbc5.com/article/vermont-covid-19-coronavirus-unvaccinated-hospitalizations-governor-phil-scott/37681265#

I think this speaks for itself. By not getting vaccinated, you're putting yourself and others at risk. Get vaccinated.

number one, all of you been claiming this as 95% every day for weeks. I would be concerned with this "roughly" 80% and "approximately" 84%.

number two, "unvaccinated" definition was changed to "until 14 days after receiving the vaccine" being counted as still unvaccinated.

number one, all of you been claiming this as 95% every day for weeks. I would be concerned with this "roughly" 80% and "approximately" 84%.

Cool. Is that why 84% of those in Vermont ICUs are unvaccinated?

number two, "unvaccinated" definition was changed to "until 14 days after receiving the vaccine" being counted as still unvaccinated.

Cool. Is that why 84% of those in Vermont ICUs are unvaccinated?

By not getting vaccinated, you're putting yourself and others at risk. Get vaccinated.

And how are you putting "others" at risk, fully vaccinated spread the virus just like non vaccinated.. just look at Singapore.. more than 80% adult population is fully vaccinated..but the virus is spreading..new high's in infections are reported daily.

Once again, I find it most interesting, and satisfyingly, that Trump supporters here are spurning him on the vaccine - accusing him of endangering their lives, by recommending this clearly dangerous vaccine....booing him and Lindsey Graham when they recommend to them to take it...

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/10/06/lindsey-graham-booed-vaccine-mandate-orig-vf.cnn

And are siding with and espousing the same anti-vaccine views as Democratic icon Robert Kennedy Jr....

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr-vaccines-covid-dr-fauci-i-read-science-1572688

Trump: "The vaccine is safe, and it works"....

Kennedy: The vaccine is ineffective and dangerous"....

Imagine that - siding with a Dem/Lib icon over their sainted leader....

CDC, are they no good now either?

In general, people are considered fully vaccinated: ±

2 weeks after their second dose in a 2-dose series, such as the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or

2 weeks after a single-dose vaccine, such as Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen vaccine

If you don’t meet these requirements, regardless of your age, you are NOT fully vaccinated. Keep taking all precautions until you are fully vaccinated.

CDC, are they no good now either?

lol So what? What is your point? We've already shown how the anti-vax idiots are behind rising Covid numbers in Vermont.

100,000 Americans have died of Covid in the past few months and roughly 99% of them were unvaccinated. Why in the hell don’t they get it? Stubbornness is one thing but stupidity is another.

Tell the entire story, not just this sniper that helps you.

That is the entire fact not some story... the projection there is now up-to 10000 cases a day, that in a more than 80% fully vaccinated population..

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/3577-new-covid-cases-in-singapore-3-more-deaths-151916310.html

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/government-planned-big-surge-covid-cases-ong-ye-kung-073933785.html

not when 16% are vaccinated people. plus however many got the shot already but are still counted as unvaccinated.

Plus the "approximately" and "roughly" descriptors that arent used for actual data. thats called a "guess".

My team won the game! "approximately" 5 to 2!

nope, immediately calls into question when a descriptor is used when none is necessary.

But ah well, no more 95% anymore. more and more vaccinated people are contributing to this problem every day.

Now its at least 16%. thats "rising". unvaccinated on the other hand, would be less of the total 100%, and this is called "decreasing".

Setting aside for a moment any concern for the accuracy of your data....Your argument is vaccines don't work, because 16% of hospitalized Covid patients are vaccinated? Genius argument.

yay math.

Indeed.

But ah well, no more 95% anymore. more and more vaccinated people are contributing to this problem every day.

Especially this vaccinated person - he's even urging his supporters to get vaccinated...

I would recommend it," Mr Trump said during an interview on Fox News Primetime on Tuesday. "I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly." He added: It's a great vaccine*, it's a safe vaccine and it's something that works.

Wow, he must want them all to become sterile....

Without mandates, restaurants, airlines, public transport will have to divide themselves into vaccinated and unvaccintated sections, like smoking or nonsmoking.

Will you be dining in vaccinated or unvaccinated?

Vaccinated, please.

May I see your vaccine passport?

Oh, I left it at home.

Well, I'm sorry, but you'll have to sit in the unvaccinated section then.

I will not!

Sorry, sir, but you must have a vaccine passport to sit with the unvaccinated. Please don't forget your passport the next time you go out.

Rather ridiculous to think about, isn't it?

mistake; should say . . . *Sorry, sir, but you must have a vaccine passport to sit with the vaccinated.*

Freudian slip?

No

Poor language skills then.

Ok, that’s how you think, I think differently.

Science is not about opinion!

Especially this vaccinated person - he's even urging his supporters to get vaccinated...

Trump can urge anyone he wants, unlike liberals conservatives and independents aren’t beholden to Trump or any conservative politician. He can recommend anything he wants, I don’t have to take it, simple. I take what I want, when I want and when I think I should or if my personal doctor recommends me that’s different. I’ll always listen to him.

Poor language skills then.

Liberals should listen more then.

Science is not about opinion!

Depending on which science you believe.

Especially this vaccinated person - he's even urging his supporters to get vaccinated...

Trump can urge anyone he wants, unlike liberals conservatives and independents aren’t beholden to Trump or any conservative politician. He can recommend anything he wants, I don’t have to take it, simple. I take what I want, when I want and when I think I should or if my personal doctor recommends me that’s different. I’ll always listen to him.

But you think the vaccine is dangerous - you've said so repeatedly in you posts....so why is Trump recommending his supporters take the vaccine if it is so dangerous?

Trump: "The vaccine is safe, and it works"....

Kennedy: The vaccine is ineffective and dangerous"....

Again, it's clear from your posts who you believe....

Science is based entirely on evidence and proof and never on opinion otherwise it's not science.

Depending on what evidence you feel makes scientific sense to you.

It has been repeatedly established on this site that you , Bass, Zaphod, and the rest of the right wingers consume CNN and us “lefties” do not.

I personally have posted at least a dozen times that I do not consume CNN at all. You and your friends have constantly cited CNN.

The only time I used to watch CNN was periodically in hotel rooms - but I haven't been traveling in the past year. One thing I found interesting recently was listening to a podcast with some Americans who pre-pandemic traveled internationally regularly, and they were saying that CNN in America and CNN International are entirely different things. Not having seen CNN America I hadn't known this. It enlightened me a little - it sounds like CNN America is like the Fox News for the left.

I always wondered why the right was so vehement about CNN, as when I did see it in hotel rooms it wasn't particularly inflammatory. But now I realize that the CNN they're talking about and the one that I've seen aren't necessarily the same CNN.

the best form of defence (Natural immunity) will be a large factor in declining numbers worldwide where ever they have avoided total lockdowns. 

Natural immunity is not the best form of defense by se same reason as being born without arms is not the best way to avoid losing your fingers in an accident.

Being that most cases are mild to asymptomatic it is more likely at least triple to 4 times the number

The problem is that you forgot to mention that mild to asymptomatic disease do not give the same immunity as heavily symptomatic/hospitalized patients do, which is extremely important.

everyone can survive this with well known treatments as natural immunity after getting Covid is much much better than those so called vaccines and the boosters that are coming.

Easily proved false when you compare hospitalization and death rates between people with "natural immunity" and immunity from vaccination. The difference clearly proves vaccinated people do much better.

I do except science that is the reason why we know I’m good

Science says the opposite, which can only mean you actively refuse to accept the science.

Interesting Natural immunity IS better than Vaccine immunity...Who would have thought it...

Interesting is to assume something without any scientific basis must be true just because it is something you would like to believe. Where is the data from asymptomatic infections compared against all vaccines? without it there is no evidence this is actually true. Extrapolating from hospitalized patients as if asymptomatic people were expected to have the same immunity after infection is invalid, because we already know this is not the case.

And how are you putting "others" at risk, fully vaccinated spread the virus just like non vaccinated.. 

You understand no vaccine is 100% effective? that is how. And since the appearance of variants is facilitated by not having prior immunity to neutralize mutant viruses before being spread that is another reason. Also, fully vaccinated people do NOT spread the virus like people not vaccinated, that is a completely false argument from antivaxxers that try to misrepresent data.

Depending on which science you believe.

Irrelevant, science do not depend on beliefs, but on data, if more and better data support a conclusion that is what science says about something. People not believing that conclusion have no importance.

Depending on what evidence you feel makes scientific sense to you.

Feelings are also irrelevant, the scientific method is detailed and objective, there are many ways to rank the value of evidence that make anybody do it in the same way (as long as they follow these valid methods to do it). If "you feel" something different from what this methods indicate about the evidence that just mean you are wrong.

Oops, I forgot the quote function there.

Depending on what evidence you feel makes scientific sense to you.

Feelings over facts.

Science is not about opinions. It is about data, experimentation, proving a hypothesis and rational analysis, that is why 3B are collectively bad at it.