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© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.WikiLeaks reveals more sensitive U.S. data
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Molenir
lol. This article should be entitled, White House once again does nothing as WikiLeaks releases more secret files.
He neglected to add, "even though we are not going to do anything about it. We could, but we're too stupid and incompetent to be able to come up with a solution."
Seriously, the complete lack of anything being done here, goes to show just how weak and incompetent the Obama administration really is.
TimRussert
Incompetent and impotent. There is no other verdict for Obama.
roomtemperature
Absolutely, Mr. Gibbs. Especially when those allies and friends find out from those documents how the US called and talked about important world leaders and diplomats. And how Washington got information about those people's networks, credit cards and DNA.
Yes, Mr. Bibbs. I can truly imagine you are deeply concerned about this.
One thing I DON'T understand. You are blaming others to be "reckless and dangerous".
medievaltimes
Politics aside, legally speaking...what options does Obama have? Any lawyers out there care to shed some light?
Molenir
Seriously? Let me think. This is just off the top of my head here. But here goes. Justice department could investigate and indict those leading wikileaks, as well as those funding them on charges of espionage, and conspiracy to commit espionage. They could go after the source of funds more directly, by investigating the banks and financial institutions that do business with the site, and the domain. The military, or covert branches of the US Government could engage in DOS attacks against the site, as well as use other tricks that would make it impossible to users to access the website.
These are just a few things they could do, I managed to think of this, in all of about 30 seconds. I'm sure given a few hours, I could come up with even more effective, more nuanced ways of attacking them. Essentially, this is what the Obama administration is not doing. As I said, doing nothing while this is happening, exposes them for what they are... weak and incompetent.
GJDailleult
Yes, Mr. Obama, unplug that internet!
DOS attacks already happening. But the more logical explanation for why they don't stop it is because they can't. The files are distributed by torrents as well as on the site, once they are out there it makes no difference if the site itself is shut down. Also, there is an encrypted file that has been distributed, and if the site is shut down or anything happens to Assange the password will be released. A bluff or blackmail with something very damaging, who knows. The interesting thing is that the US government seems to know in advance what information Wikileaks has, at least with this release.
A couple of other interesting points here. How much of the material has been obtained by whistle blowers, and how much through computer hacking and espionage? The media so far has made it seem like whistle blowers turning over information, like the army private guy. But this release would seem to mean there are others. Plausible maybe, when you hand out top secret security clearances like tissues at a train station the potential for leaks shoots way up. But if is "Dragon Tattoo" style hacking and computer espionage going on then yikes! Houston, we have a problem as they say. Second point is the potential that Assange and his group are not acting alone, and that groups or governments seeking to damage the US are behind him in some way.
That is all crazy conspiracy talk now of course. Just like the idea that some Australian guy could get his hands on millions of top secret documents and dump them on the internet was crazy conspiracy talk a couple of years ago.
Molenir
Whistleblowing is much different then this. Whistleblowers target a program or group, exposing incidents of corruption or abuse. This, wholesale release of top secret information is not whistleblowing, it is a direct assault on the United States and its allies. Nothing more or less.
Theres 2 things here you aren't mentioning. First, the US didn't know precisely what information there was. Second, Wikileaks founder Assange came out and told them precisely what he had, and what he was planning to do. As for some secret file, and having it released... Who cares. Shutting the site down, as well as any copy cat sites, and vigorously prosecuting those involved, either in the website, or those who finance it, would prevent future incidents of this nature.
Whistleblowing is one thing. Wholesale release of top secret data is something else entirely.
tigris
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."
nandakandamanda
Parents would not be able to make private decisions about their children if everything was open for debate with the child.
Teachers would not be able to have any private opinions about their students if they were forced to speak their inner minds.
Genuine thought will now be driven further underground, I am afraid, as everyone hedges their wording. What a sad state we are entering.
This guy Assange must have had a messed-up childhood.
SuperLib
In Assange's attempt to, um, show transparency in the US, he's mostly created large diplomacy problems with Iran and their neighbors. I can't really see how that is a whistleblowing issue. If anything is does show how some things need to be kept private in order for diplomacy to function.
By the way, has he been brought in for questioning on his rape investigation? Gosh, if only anyone could find him...he's so....secretive. He needs to be behind closed doors in order to operate effectively in exposing people who operate behind closed doors...heh. He is essentially what he is trying to fight. So if Wikileaks is watching us, who is watching them?
lostrune2
The US government officially going after these people only adds fuel to the fire. It'll just make the story even bigger and just embolden the people on the fence against it. An even bigger story would be more uncomfortable for foreign governments involved, making relations worse. Sometimes, it's just better for the government to take its lumps, lie low, and wait for its chance.
TimRussert
It's not just the Australian Assange. British - born PFC Bradley Manning, distraught over a break-up with his boyfriend, decided he needed to end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan or something, by making the docs he had access to available to Assange and his "pacifist" buds.
Alphaape
Well at least the NYT is not afraid to print damaging information when the Dems are in charge. If this had been an Rep administration, this would have been trumpeted as a "major victory" for freedom of the press.
Not true, it gets pretty intense when they go over your past when you have to get your clearance renewed. The problem is that people who should be monitoring this get too complacent. On government computers, they can tell where you have been and what has been burned onto a file, so somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball.
The items that were marked as classified, the persons who leaked them should be prosecuted. When you get your clearance, you sign a statement that says you will not release items without permission. These persons broke the rule, and as such should be held accountable.
bigmouth
Its good to read those documents.so we can see the hypocisy of America.A world leader indeed. Your cup is full.china pls take over.
medievaltimes
Molenir - If this was a legal slam dunk, why wouldn't they go ahead with it? Something is missing. Don't be so cynical and eat a bran muffin or something.
There is a fine line between "classified" and "keep the public uninformed".
nath
Believe me, you don't want the world to start reading classified Chinese and Russian documents and overseas cables. US behavior would look like child's play in comparison.
lesgrande
"US discussions about a united Korea peninsula"...US war games with ROK... nah, couldn't be...to start you'd need a provocation from the North to justify a coalition invasion...how do we get that provocation...
TimRussert
The documents explode the standard Arabist line that the leftist US State Dept has had for decades. Saudi Arabia is seen to be blaming the instability in the region not on Israel but on Iran. Turkey is described as Islamist under Erdogan and a regime bent on regaining lost Ottoman glory - they are described by US diplomats as seeking revenge for being beaten in 1683 when the Mohammedan hordes advanced so far they camped outside Vienna.
Der Spiegel reported this
"According to the US document, another adviser to the ruling AKP party remarked, probably ironically, that Turkey wanted “to take back Andalusia and avenge the defeat at the siege of Vienna in 1683.”
smithinjapan
"such disclosures put at risk our diplomats, intelligence professionals, and people around the world who come to the United States for assistance in promoting democracy and open government.”
The first part is certainly true, but not sure about the latter. At any rate, perhaps US policy should change if they don't want to embarrass and/or endanger their diplomats.
SackOfHammers
All information should be free an accessible.
Alphaape
@bigmouth, if the internal documents between domestic government agencies in China were let out, that would probably be more worse. Let China take over, a country that blocks web access to certain sites, and you seem to be comfortable with this?
smithinjapan
"The documents explode the standard Arabist line that the leftist US State Dept has had for decades."
You can always tell when Tim's feathers have been ruffled; he starts calling people 'Arabist' and 'leftist' all the time. I'm only surprised that there aren't any five-word adjectives or that 'socialist cheerleader' doesn't appear.
"Saudi Arabia is seen to be blaming the instability in the region not on Israel but on Iran."
What about every other country in the ME (Israel aside)?
TimRussert
Perhaps. But of course, you are unable to articulate the changes you call for.
TimRussert
Let us start with the demand that the fugitive rapist and criminal Julian Assange present himself for the crimes he is charged with in Sweden.And we can take things from there...
lesgrande
And of course you really believe he is guilty of those charges.
TimRussert
If he is innocent what does he have to fear. It is Sweden, right?
AuntyAmerican
The US is an Empire with Imperial interests. If you accept that, it's not surprising that it takes measures to keep control over its "allies." Domestic and International resistance against US Imperialism is the only thing that can stop these activities.
PeaceWarrior
TimRussert, I think you are missing the word "alleged" in your post as in alleged rapist!
Alphaape
@AuntyAmerican, if that is the case, then why did China make it known that countries should not send representatives to the Noble Prize ceremony for the jailed Chinese dissident being held?
AuntyAmerican
no he's not. Tim actually believes everything his government tells him without question.
palisadez54
You can't be serious?! China, the country that is notorious for hiding information from its own public(ever heard of Tiananmen Square Massacre?). Why do you think they created "The Great Firewall of China"? America ain't perfect, but it's more transparent than China. And that's a fact!
kyoken
The reality these documents reveal about the US is that this nation stands alone.
kyoken
... and can not be trusted.
palisadez54
Please name a country that CAN be trusted.
TimRussert
All the more reason for Assange to show himself.He is all about the truth and justice, right?
TimRussert
If the volume of info is as great as believed and the players named as varied as it now seems I would say it is not the US who is harmed most by this. So we wait and see, while the sentimental Left just shakes their little fists...
bigmouth
Palisadez54. U talk abt transpareancy?America has bee arresting and transporting people to secret prisons all over Europe.You call that a transparent govt? A country that shd lead the world? Lets wait.ssange is going to roll more in and coupled with history ,we will know whether America is the hypocrite or China? Throughout history,I have seen America invading countries,disposing leaders that dont appeal to their so called democracy. The END is near....
nandakandamanda
It's totally crazy. If America is such an untrustworthy country, why do so many Chinese and other nationalities desperately want to go and live/study/work there?
AuntyAmerican
Well they 'let it be known' as you rightly pointed out. The thing with the USA is it'll speak openly about it's democracy and mission for peace and then secretly do all the things you can now read about.
Oh, yeah, it'll also invade any defenceless nation that gets out of hand - notice how NK, as terrible as the USA love to tell the world it is, hasn't been invaded.
So. Very. Typical.
Alphaape
@AuntyAmerican: so then you are saying that NK is honorable since they will shell a neighboring county that it has signed a cease fire with, and also sink one of their ships, or do any of the other "border incidents" that have occured since 1953 as an honest broker in the world stage.
I also keep hearing about how NK is the "workers paradise." So if it is so great, and it truly will lead the way, why is it that you don't see people on the borders of NK trying to get in and break their immigration laws? I seem to see many a person trying to get into America.
skipthesong
how do we know everything this guy is putting out as true? With his fame, he could basically make anything up at this point and be believed. There's no stopping this.
Smorkian
Most Chinese studying in the US return to China. I went to grad school with quite a few - they liked the broadening of horizons they got by studying overseas but wanted to return home. I've heard the same from many of my friends, too.
palisadez54
Bigmouth. Do you think America is going to be 100% transparent? Compared to other countries, say, China, America is more transparent. Of course, America looks out for its own interest, but please name one country that doesn't, or for that matter, doesn't act hypocritically. You mock democracy because you can. Try living in a communist country and "badmouthing" their system and see what happens.
palisadez54
...sorry, no " " in "badmouthing".
lesgrande
alphaape,
The Wikileaks documents themselves reveal how the US has been having discussions about a united Korea friendly to US interests and offering business incentives to China in order to entice them into the deal. This provides more than a fair hint of the true nature of the war "drills" which the North felt compelled to respond to.
Is the incident being played up in a one-sided manner comparable to how the media behaved in the run up to the invasion of Iraq?
Yes, it is.
Has there been a fair amount of media coverage about the loose ends of the Cheonan ship sinking incident investigation?
No, there hasn't.
SuperLib
That's the argument that's being carefully defused. When Wikileaks decided to change their policy and only present information on the United States they created a perspective vacuum. At this point it would be counterproductive for Wikileaks to leak any information about any other government because Assange needs a policy of "out of sight, out of mind" to keep people's outrage focused on the US. Do you see any foreigners here demanding that their own government release their classified documents? Nope.
tclh
How many are true? How many are false? How many are just traps? How many are mixture of true and false? etc...What kind of people have the time and ability to analyze, to prove all these things? I mean 250,000...of them.
palisadez54
They don't need to. Wikileaks is releasing a lot(directly or indirectly related) about other governments' secrets.
roomtemperature
skipthesong:
tclh:
Until now the US didn't mentioned anything about documents being false. They are only freaking out about the disclosure of them. Says enough.
Alphaape
@lesgrande, you should take a look at SuperLib's comments:
If NK is such an innocent party, then they should be more than willing to put out the information that shows they had no fault in that ship's sinking.
For those who say that the US is just bullying and being hipocritical by saying one thing and doing another, just take a look a few weeks ago about the Japan Coast Guard fellow who released the video of the fishing boat incident. Those were the property of Japan's government and was classified, and it was released. So I the fact that Japan was saying one thing and the tapes may have proved another is just the norm of how countries deal with each other.
I would like to see him do a data dump on what the PRC and NK have been doing. Yet he still keeps swinging for the "low hanging fruit" of bashing the US.
Molenir
This may in fact be true, but I've known students who came here, who planned to never return. In fact, one of my former roommates in college was like that. He hated China, hated the corruption, how only those who get in with the local party bosses can achieve anything, how they have to bribe their way out. And if the local party boss doesn't like you, if your kid insults their kid, then you're screwed.
Honestly, every country has about the same stuff. Russia and China's are probably much worse, and Japan is probably bad as well. Diplomacy needs secrecy in order to function properly. This kind of a release is bad for the US, and for everyone. Assange and anyone associated with the site, should be prosecuted for espionage.
brotokyo
Where should I send my thank you card?
Badsey
The "NK stealth torpedo" was German made.
At a time when Obama is weak (80-90% disapproval) I find these "leaks" to be a very dangerous sign. Maybe they will only be used as reference when they try to control the Internet.
Some of these Internet leaks are "real" (CO2, China fisherman) and some are deliberately set-up by Gov now (this one). =They want to embarrass the puppets to take the heat off financial terrorism (Ireland etc)
AuntyAmerican
How long before Julian Assange is "taken out"? Washington has already tried character assassination with the help of Swedish government stooges, but this hasn't worked. Julian knows better than any of us what the powers that be are capable of. He clearly has balls of steel.
Long may he live, and keep up the good work.
Taka313
Molenir
So...you don't think they are doing any of this? Really?
Wow.
Taka
Klein2
roomtemperature called it. The fact that nobody is doing any denying is damning in itself. Let's say two people know something is the truth. The first one to say it is a lie might be doing the other a favor, but it would destroy all credibility if the other party admitted it was true.
You can bet the leaks are true. What does Wikileaks have to gain by faking it? Dude doesn't seem to be driving a Bentley or Ferrari, or even paying his legal fees that well.
and this "This is just off the top of my head here. But here goes. Justice department could investigate and indict .... on charges of espionage, and conspiracy to commit espionage. They could go after the source of funds more directly, by investigating the banks and financial institutions that do business with the site, and the domain. The military, or covert branches of the US Government could engage in DOS.... "
Sounds like Molenir is nostalgic for Bush America. Tell you what Molenir, you know what you know, but you don't know what you don't know. You make the assumption, as many on the right do, that federal people are just pinheads who don't know what they are doing. I think that there are things that you don't know about this that explain why the US is pursuing the best course here by doing less.
Here is the number one most obvious reason for restraint that nobody but nobody has brought up. What in these leaks really damages the US? I think what is going to come out of all this is that the US is struggling mightily to keep the world from blowing itself up. The Saudis talk a good game, but won't even confront Iran with a few sternly worded letters. China is pushing everybody around. Europe is cowed by Russia and everybody else. And US State officials get a memo to try and find frequent flyer numbers from foreign officials...how weak is that? Oh, and Qaddafi likes blondes with knockers. Tragedy, and comedy too!
And now we find that Iran has long range missiles and China is using a loud voice about Korea. Hmmm. Wonder what bad news is coming out of Myanmar and Venezuela next week.
The truth hurts, but a little more truth is what this world needs now, not a little less, and if this event goads people into confronting some of the uglier truths, then so much the better. Nobody can help the US on the huge issues, probably, but now is the time for second tier nations to come forward and take some more of the burden any way they can. Simply taking action to protect their own interests would be helpful, but forming stronger regional alliances and blocs might help things too. The leaks are likely to show that the US has too many clients pulling it every which way. And that is the ugliest truth that the US does not mind baring.
There is plenty more that could be said, but anyone who thinks they know this whole story is deluded.
Nessie
He took himself out...by taking that woman out.
grafton
If what we have been reading so far is the cream of the crop I really can’t see that the US needs worry. Uncomfortable for a while yes, but not that big a deal. The dust will settle and life will get to normal. After all what we are seeing is only what all other countries do, but they have been lucky enough not to have been exposed.
If these documents were so easily available to some 23 year old then chances are most other interested counties would also have had copies a long time ago. The only people that see this as being a revelation are the none diplomats, people outside government. Every embassy in the world, whatever its nationality has this week been warned to be careful about what it sends out in future. Security in the US of its files has been tightened and the world goes on much as it was before. The “drama” is in the newspaper headlines not with the governments. Yes they will make all the right noises, but really there isn’t that much they are worried about, if anything it plays into their hands because they can now use this as an excuse for even higher levels of security.
This didn’t do anybody any favours, we will all end up paying a little price for this.
Though to be totally honest I would love to see the messages that pass between China and NK. China and Russia and between Japan and China.
Yes, I am still alive and well, I just got tired of the predictable here.
DentShop
Tut tut TR. You do your arguments no favours by condemning a man before he has had a fair trial. You should know better.
Alphaape
If that is the case, will he air out the dirty laundry of China, NK and other nations too? Or does he only have an ax to grind with the US?
lrodriguezsosa
Julian Assange is like a modern day Robin Hood.
Molenir
The fact that they have allowed, not one, not 2 sets of leaks, but repeatedly allowed this site to release data that is classified says that no, they're not doing anything. I think at least part of that is because like so many here, a lot of people in the Obama administration view the US as being the bad guy. So having this all come out and embarrass the US, for them, is a good thing. Whats more damning though, is that by not taking any public, visible action, Obama once again looks weak and incompetent. So after the oil leak in the gulf was finally stopped, and his incompetence, and mismanagement was beginning to be forgotten, this comes out and once again, he is shown as out of touch, and stupid.
ca1ic0cat
I suppose leaking the diplomatic cables of, for example, Denmark would be a lot less interesting to the world? I wouldn't want to be the person responsible for the leak. As far as Assange is concerned I'm sure he'll bask in his so called "glory" while he ignores the repercussions of his actions. I'll bet that the leaks about NK will drive the dear little leader to his own irresponsible actions. Nice to be irresponsible when the shells are dropping on some other country. Maybe Assange wants to be president of the US? He's got the qualifications as set by the last two....
Elbuda Mexicano
The internet is great but things like Wikileaks, how to build bombs, how perverts can see pictures of child porn etc...need more regulation and control, freedom with out any regulation is not real freedom, more like anarchy, chaos, not to say we should be like China, but for China, the need to control their internet, too many angry Chinese against their own communist regime.
Molenir
What makes Obama look even more pathetic, is that Nappy shut down a huge number of websites just days ago through ICANN, but amazingly Wikileaks was excluded.
mikehuntez
I agree with that. The guy who leaked them should be held accountable. Assange should be brought up to face his alleged charges of rape and clear his name if he's so innocent and also to reveal who leaked the documents. If he doesn't cooperate with that then charge him with Espionage for leaking classified info. I'd think that this is the reason he is in hiding. So willing to leak info but wants to stay so secretive himself. Double Standard I'd say.
I think the USA will survive this though. I just wonder how many conspiracies these leaks will prove. Probably NONE.
roomtemperature
"How long before Julian Assange is "taken out"?"
Well, Roger Cressey already volunteered to "pull the trigger" (his own words) and shoot everyone who's behind this. Too bad he forgot about Executive Order 12333. And too bad those words come from a terror expert.
arrestpaul
You should back up your statement by posting your name, age, address, phone numbers, drivers license number, credit card numbers, bank account numbers and anything else you believe should be free and accessible.
Smorkian
Molenir, exactly WHAT would you have them do? The cat was out of the bag once the lax security protocols allowed one random man to access and copy all of this information. Wikileaks is just the conduit to it being spread world wide - if they didn't do it, someone else would.
The suggestions I read in this thread regarding what the Obama administration should do are ludicrous. They are bound by the US Constitution and international law. Assange and his partners are NOT bound by the US Constitution. So the US charges him with espionage. And? He's not American, he doesn't live in America, they can't DO anything. It wouldn't fix anything.
DDOS the site? This is not 1994. These documents are not in one place, they are electronic and stored in many places. Remember Wikileaks was already taken offline by court order once, they stayed online with a different domain in a different country. They've distributed these documents via BitTorrent (the mysterious "insurance" file) so many people in many countries already have everything.
The only thing the US government can do is realize they screwed up and do what they can to prevent it from happening again. They can't fix this by harsh words, half-baked technological solutions, or court orders.
stormcrow
Julian Assange is brave, but he must be a marked man.
jruaustralia
ASSANGE could, under Australian laws, be prosecuted particularly if one can prove he has undermined "the very safety of coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan" that includes Aust'l soldiers. Check highlighted below.
Criminal Code Act 1995 (Aust')
A person commits an offence (espionage) if:
(a) the person makes, obtains or copies a record (in any form) of:
(i) information concerning the Commonwealth's security or defence; or
(ii) information concerning the security or defence of another country, being information that the person acquired (whether directly or indirectly) from the Commonwealth; and
(b) the person does so:
(i) without lawful authority; and
(ii) intending that the record will, or may, be delivered to another country or a foreign organisation, or to a person acting on behalf of such a country or organisation; and
(iii) intending to give an advantage to another country's security or defence.
It is a defence to a prosecution of an offence against (Subsections re. espionage) that the information the person communicates or makes available is information that has already been communicated or made available to the public with the authority of the Commonwealth.
lesgrande
@jruaustralia
Wow, you're really into law enforcement.
How admirable. And really cool, too.
So I guess you're saying that because he's prosecutable under Commonwealth law that he should be brought to trial on the basis that Australian soldiers could be put in danger.
Never mind that Washington's actions put them in harm's way to begin with, and caused the deaths (shall we say, "collateral damage"?) of more than 100,000 Iraqis, and brought instability to the whole region, which in its turn has put normal citizens stateside and around the world in danger.
So how does your Commonwealth law account for that?- I rest my case.
cactusJack
Encore, WikiLeaks, Encore!
jruaustralia
lesgrande wrote: So I guess you're saying that because he's prosecutable under Commonwealth law that he should be brought to trial on the basis that Australian soldiers could be put in danger.
Obviously you don't. Bye =/
jason6
Go WikiLeaks Go!
I really hope there is a succession plan in place should Julian Assange go under, and that this person has the forethought to be squeaky clean plus smart enough to stay under the radar.
Really, it's very ironic and fitting what somebody said earlier in the posts: "If you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide nor fear." You hear that all the time from the cops, agents and various enforcers of governments, particularly the USA. Now they are going crazy cuz somebody turned the tables? Bet they don't like the taste of their own medicine!
KevininHawaii
America is and always has been a "do what I say, not what I do" nation.
I wonder how long a)wikileaks will stay up. b)Assange will still be alive/not in prison c)the internet will be semi censor-free...
Russia and China are next on Wikileaks' list. They won't be nearly as subtle as the U.S. When Russia kills you, its almost like they want everyone to know it was them...